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Mailbag: What's the plan with pitch counts? · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: What's up, everybody?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Buco Territory, presented to
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: you by the Foul Territory Network.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I'm your host Ohios, joining.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Me as always Arma co hosts Josh Harrison and Platinum
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Key a k A.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Mark. It's a mail bag Wednesday.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: We're recording this Tuesday evening, just before the Pirates start
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: their three game road series against the Texas Rangers and Arlington.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: We'll have thoughts and analysis on that series on Friday show.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: But today's show is where we answer your question. So
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: we're gonna get right into it right now, Mark, what's
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: our first question for today?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: So our first question comes to us from Saul Barrios Thomas, who.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Actually is Saoul.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: You're at the post, No way, guys, let the Post Gazette,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: my golf buddy.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Awesome, dude, Saoul, So shout out yes?
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Continue all right, and so we'll asks does Braxton Ashcraft
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: have a hard innings cap? Will they have to be
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: careful with his workload? Could that change if they were
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: fighting for a playoff spot?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'll start on this.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they have a number in mind because you
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: typically don't like to see a guy go up more
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: than twenty to thirty a year. Yeah, And Braxton's career
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: high heading into last year was seventy three between Triple
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: A and the major leagues. Last year, he logged one
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: hundred and eighteen innings. And just from conversations I've had
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: with people who are around the team, like source team sources,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: they weren't necessarily thrilled with his overall output, Like they
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: kind of said, like, you know what, we used him
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: a little too much.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Granted, right now he looks great, but it's a concern
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: because this is a guy, I mean, he was drafted
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: by the last regime. To my knowledge, I think he
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: was a he was a chair or he was a
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Huntington pick. So he like he's been in the system
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: for a very long time. He's had a lot of injuries.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: He's had a shorter injury. He's had Tommy John I
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: believe in knee injury as well. That's prevented him from
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: like having a full complete season until last year, which
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: was this you know, rookie season.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So what does that number look like.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: It'll be interesting, I mean, logic would say it could
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: be like anywhere around like the one thirty one forty Mark.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's probably something on the lower side of that,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: just because again he jumped from seventy.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Three to one eighteen last year.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And uh, with the injury history being what it is,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, Josh, Like, I'll throw it to you
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: after I finished this and you can explain why, like
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: that's such a story jump, because Josh, I mean, you
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: have teammates like that that back end of your career
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh. Those some of those pitchers, they were too
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: aggressive with the innings jumps, Like a guy like Jamison
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Tyne comes to mind, and you have to be mindful
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: of that. I know that fans hate the whole pitch
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: count thing and the innings watching, but like, that's why
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: development matters. That's why you want guys to throw one
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: hundred ish innings in the minor leagues like we saw
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Bubba Chandler do and Thomas Harrington and all those guys,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: because you want to have that build up. And if
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: you don't and you find yourself in a position to
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: play competitive baseball, you have to weigh risk versus reward,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and at times that jeopardizes a guy's career.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So Josh, I'll throw it to you. To give a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: little bit more insight on that.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: Given you said he went seventy three innings to one
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: hundred and eighteen, that's a watch jump, and given a
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: guy who's already had Tommy John And then you know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: I think the question asks could the cap you know
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: change obviously with the playoff short in the playoffs obviously
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: things like that will allow them to go back to
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: the drawing board to blow Okay, I know we said
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: we wanted to be around one thirty. We gotta make
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: it make sense if we're gonna push past one thirty
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: because as you mentioned, it's no, it's not about the
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: right now, which it is, but you also got to
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: think about the longevity the career of the person that hand.
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: And realistically, I'm not speaking for the Pirates speaking baseball
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: in general. You let you let any player tell it.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: You know, they're gonna they going out, they taking the
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: ball every fifth day. You know, players gonna play one
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: hundred and sixty two games. So that's where you have
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: to have that that one the conversation, you know, with him,
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: but it's got to come from somebody that he trusts,
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: you know, because at the end of the day. You
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: might say, you want me to throw one twenty, but
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: if he's like, I got one thirty, I'm gonna go
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: one thirty, vice versa. But it's gonna have to make
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: sense because, as you said, seventy three to one eighteen,
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: that's a big jump, and they weren't thrill with that.
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: So to push anything past you know too much more
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: than that, you don't want to, you know, put too
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: much on a guy that you know one or in
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: your future plans, you know, whether that's you know, for
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: you or getting something in return, not speaking him to
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: be traded. But these are all things that you know.
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: The future can change just like that. You know, plans
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: for the future can be this, and then you know
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: something happened in the game and you know, next thing,
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: you know, they pivot or you know, they get an
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: offer they can't refuse. But I think you they're they're
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: gonna keep it to where they really want to make
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: sure that they they monitor it because he's not the
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: only one. I mean, it's gonna be the same thing
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: when Jared Jones comes back. So it's not like he's
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: the only one that's under this watchful eye. I mean,
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: up until this point when is April twenty first, when
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: we're recording this, I would say the whole starting five.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: Has been under a watchful eye.
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: So I think it only makes sense, especially with the
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: you know, uncertainty of a bullpen. It doesn't do any
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: good to run him out there for one hundred and
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: fifty innings without you know, making the playoffs if the
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: you know, the relief situation doesn't you know, help, So
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: that's also gonna be the other thing. Is that worth
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: you know, wasting his bullets if we aren't contending, So
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: they're gonna have to be careful. But I think that's
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: a conversation that they're going to have and they're really
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: going to have to tell him like, no, you're not
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: through more than this. But if the situation arises and
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: you know, we need you game one sixty two or
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: of course, we're gonna go back to the drawing board
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: and we're going to be you know a little bit
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: more open minded. But I think they want to make
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: sure that everything is lined up, especially when you get
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: you know, a guy like Jared Jones back.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: That only makes you that much stronger, and.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I think you hit the nail on the head. Josh
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: By saying the Pirates need to protectration Bracs and Ashcraft.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: He's one of their most valuable assets. This guy has
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: the most pitching war of any picture right now in
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: the NL Central. He's been shoving since last year. I
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: mean when when he's out there, he's dominant, right, and
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: the Pirates need to make sure that they have access
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: to that next year when they compete again, assuming there's baseball.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: But you need to make sure that you have Ashcraft healthy,
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: and so it's I don't think it would be worth
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: it to overextend him this year. Deep into the playoff push,
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: they're gonna have a bunch of arms, they're gonna have
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: a bunch of options. Yeah, Ashcraft is probably one of
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: their best ones, but you need to make sure you
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: still have him as an option. And with that injury history,
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: it's such a concern. So this is one player where
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: if the Pirates limit his innings, I'm not gonna complain
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: because I love watching Braxton Ashcraft and I want to
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: keep doing that so well, and you have final thoughts
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: on that now.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's just two big points. I mean, one,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: the way you get through this is you have to communicate,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: like they have and to the pirates credit. I feel
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: like they've been really good with that, like in past instances,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: like I remember covering Jared Jones's rookie year and they
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: told him before the Mets game, you know, like, hey,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: this is gonna be a short day. They've done that
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: with Paul Skins, they said like, hey, this is gonna
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: be a light work uh workload day. They did that
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: like his last couple of starts before they all Star
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: break last year. They've done that with a whole bunch
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: of guys. And Braxton is a guy where yeah, like
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Josh used the term bullets, his bullets, they do damage, man,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And you can use those bullets in different ways. It
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be a start, like obviously that's the
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: most valuable way to use them. But you look, at
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: some point in this season, if they're competitive, I think
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: it makes sense to add another arm, like at the deadline,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: and that way you push Braxton Ashcraft and Carmen Macinski
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: to your middle relief options, and all of a sudden,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: that bullpen isn't that big of a problem anymore. And
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: in the way you can build it, you could still
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: have scheduled days. It won't be necessarily all right, well
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: you're gonna start here and you have this many ups,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: and you have this many but it's a hey, like,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: this is kind of how we envision.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: This game going.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: And if it's in this situation, we're using you today
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: and you can operate that all the way through the postseason.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: So there's a way to do this.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: It's it's certainly not old school baseball, but other teams
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: have overcome similar circumstances, and yeah, there's a way for
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Braxton Ashcraft to throw one hundred and thirty one hundred
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and thirty five innings and have a three or higher
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: war season in the process. It's just it takes a
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: lot of smart people making the right decisions and communicating
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: those decisions with the player every step of the way.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: So we've got more questions to answer, But first a
• 9:44
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  Speaker 1: All right mark question number two?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: What do we got all right for? Our next question
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: comes to us from Morgan, who asks, I know there's
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: a lot of out of position players, But why is
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: there so much position shuffling every day? How do they
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: expect players to improve defensively when they're playing two to
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: three positions a week. I think I can think this,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, I think, yeah, I mean, but.
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: Y'all can definitely chime in. And I'm gonna have to
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: toot my own horn here just to give myself some
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: props because twenty fourteen, when I made my first All
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Star team, made as a utility guy. And you know,
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: typically back in the day, utility guy was a guy
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: that you know, didn't really swing it or could bounce around,
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: but there was typically one and that was basically to
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: give guys days off. Right now, I think we don't
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: have a lot of utility guys. You just got a
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: lot of guys bouncing around. And I think that's where
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: the the real challenge has come, because utility guys. Just
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: for instance, when twenty fourteen, you know, group one I
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: might have taken fly balls and left field, Group two
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: might go tate graandwos is short and third and second
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: and then hitting Group three. But that was all a
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: part of my plan because these are things that you
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: know me and the coaches have gone through to say, okay,
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: this is where I may be in and also played
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: it since college. I played all those positions I mentioned
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: before since college.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: I'd be willing to bet that any of the guys.
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: That we're talking about playing multiple positions right now have
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: probably not done it until they got asked to do
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: in pro ball, because there's value in guys that can
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: swing it. That's the way that the analytics had gone.
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: That's why the shift that got taken out. You started
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: seeing people playing second base because you could somewhat hide
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: them in short short right field because oh, he doesn't
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: have to have you know, second basement range. But if
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: we got them playing short right field, he's just got
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: to feel the you know, the routine balls. But he's
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: going to hit thirty plus on runs. But defensively he's
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: out of position. So when that went back now you
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: had to get a little bit more creative and use
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: guys that, Okay, he might play left field, he's never
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: played right field before, but let's see if we can
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: make him play right field. Oh, this guy that can
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: play second in short, he's pretty athletic. Let's throw him
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: out on the outfield.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: And it's like, well, the dude's never played outfield before.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: Just because he's gone out there doing back and practicing shagged,
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: that's completely different than being out there and having to
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: communicate with a guy that's played it his whole life.
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: So and it's something that you hit on even when
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: we talked about Braxton Ashcraft and it goes it's communicate
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: even when you're communicating innings, when you're playing defense. What
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: you see right now is a lack of communication because
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: you got guys out of position and it ran into
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: you know, the game of oh man, tell everybody can
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: play multiple positions is going to keep you on the lineup,
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: but it's gotten to a point to where it's sacrificing
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: defensive runs. And as a former player that bounced around
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: and did that, I know I made it look easy.
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: That's why I said I had a two mown horn.
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: But there was a lot of work that went into that.
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: And not saying that these guys are out of position
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: aren't working hard. They just don't have the amount of
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: innings and amount of hours that it takes to really
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: be good at these positions.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: The show you got.
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: To one right, and if they're not really good at one,
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: and now you want them to play two or three,
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: they're going to be very sub par at two or three.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: And ultimately that is the situation that you're in.
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: That's why at the beginning of the season I said
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: the biggest question MARKUS defense because I just don't foresee.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: How it can work.
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: Even if you've got guys got out there working, it
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: only comes with repetition and that's the only way you
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: can do it.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: And right now you got guys trying to learn on
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: the job, and that is not easy.
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: It's okay when it's one guy, but when you had six,
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: seven guys stuff.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's we're already starting to see
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: like the limits on the pairates' depth because we've we
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: have Jered Trill who's injured right Uh Brandon lou just
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: announced tonight as we're recording. Yeah, day to day. Uh
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: so he's been out of the lineup the last two games.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: So you've had like Nick York has had to step up,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: which he's done pretty well offensively and okay defensively. But yeah,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: so I think part of it is injuries and not
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: having the necessary depth to back those up with guys
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: at those positions. Like we've talked about the lack of
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: depth at third base specifically, so Jerry Triolo goes down,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: you don't really have a guy who's a full time
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: third baseman.
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: So I mean, think about it, who's the youth who
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: would you say as the utility player on the team?
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: Granty? You got a lot of guys that do it.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: But because he'll play out, I know, but.
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: He's he got injuries. But besides him, do you have
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: another one?
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It was Triolo and York and yeah, well that's that's
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: the point I want to make. I mean, Josh, everything
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: he said was about same for you, Mark, And like, Josh,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: you hit on a lot of it, and like that's
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: probably like the baseball wide explanation. But I think another
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: explanation when you're reviewing small market teams is it's more
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: affordable to pay one guy who can play three positions
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: kind of well as opposed to one guy who you
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: know can play one position really well. Because I mean,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: if you want to have nine of those guys, it's
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: gonna cost you a lot more.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: But when you can just feel a team where it's.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Like, all right, well we know this guy can play
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: here at second, this guy can play here at short
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: this guy can play here catcher, this guy can play
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: somewhere in the outfield, and we just kind of kind
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: of got to figure it out after that. And that's
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: where that's where the game is trending right now. I mean,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: it's not just a small market thing, but the big
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: market they have. Like if you want to call Mookie
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Bets a utility guy like that, you're doing it with
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: that type of player, a Biga or even yeah, Tatis
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Jazz Chisholm has been moved around at pun throughout his career.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: But like you know, Pirate's pocketbooks a little different than
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: the teams that we just mentioned, the Padres, the Yankees,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: and the Dodgers. So you're going to see them trade
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: for players who they either have seen play multiple positions
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: or their analytics tell them that they have potential to
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: play multiple positions. Almost every single guy that they have
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: acquired through my time covering this team that isn't an
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: established veteran, you know, so take out like the Tommy
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Fams of the world, you know, Cutch all that. But
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: like when they acquire a guy off waivers or a
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: trade when he's a prospect, they almost always teach them
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: a new position. If it's a second baseman, they want
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: to teach him how to play third. Look at like
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Nick and Zalez, a guy who was not the third
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: basement is now playing a bit like I KF you
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: play yeah, because yeah, it's the best way to it's
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: the best way to get bang for your buck is
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: rather than having a whole bunch of and yeah.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And also it goes.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Along with like what I said earlier, with what Josh
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: said earlier, I should say, is that you want to
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: have your best nine hitters in the.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Lineup because offense is expensive.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And if you're willing to invest in offense, and that's
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: kind of how this team was built, right, Like they
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: have We've said this on the show a million times.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: They have like four guys who should probably be a
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: primary designated hitter on this.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Team, but you only have but they can hit, they
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: can't hit, And that's worked so far.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: But to answer your question as to why so many
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: people are playing out of position is it's kind of like.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Everyone's taking their turns.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Holding their breath and like, all right, okay, I get
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to be d H today.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, Now.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: You go hold your breath and Leughfield, you go hold
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: your breath. In center field, you go hold your breath,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: second base, you go hold your breath and right the
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: first base and it's like all right, Like that's so
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: you got to move it around. And that's just the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: reality of small market baseball. And sometimes that works sometimes
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: you we've seen teams go on runs that are built
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: like that, and there are other times where it absolutely implodes.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Like you look at the New York Mets right now.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: They have an entire infield of old guys condition they
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: should not be playing.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: And it's.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, except for the guy that was there before all
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: But I mean we covered it. Yeah, you're right.
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: I mean, but as you said, the league once guys
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: that can play multiple positions and they don't.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Realize that it's not for the ones.
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: And I'm not the only one include I mean, Sean
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: Rodriguez was really good at it as well another guy.
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: But like there are a lot of guys, I mean
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: Ben's mean, yes, a lot of guys. But if you
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: were to talk to Sean, if you were to talk
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: to Ben, I guarant see, they will probably give you
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: the same like we worked at it like that, right,
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: not that these guys don't like that was a part
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: of our.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: It was a focus. Yeah.
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: Yes, like these guys they're just being here. This is
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: your job now. It's like, all right, I think I
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: got the right tools for this job. And I mean
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. It's like the softball game,
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: you know, celebrity softball. I'm gonna play left field to Sydney.
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: You know who's going out to say, Oh, I'm gonna
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: go to short the city. It's just like, at some
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: point you got to have some continuity. You got to
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: allow guys to But when you don't have that, I mean,
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: this is what you get and offense just keep banging.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: One final question, but first, one final ad.
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• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Final question mark yeah.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Final question comes to us from Marris Kegstore number one
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: customer aka WVU guy Uh, who asks who is involved
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: with the decision making?
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: I didn't, Yeah, yess who is involved with the decision
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: making when it comes to pitch counts. I'm assuming the
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: back end of the rotation is about preserving their arms
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: for later in the season. Why are they overly cautious
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: with the others when I'm sure they could argue that
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: they could go that they could easily hit one hundred pitches.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: All right, I will start here.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, No one woke up one day and was like,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: one hundred is the bad number. No one held a
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: gun to one hundred's head and said, we will shoot
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: it if it gets over this. It's just the reality
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: of how baseball works. To the analytical community's credit, it's
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: not far off in the sense of normally, when you're
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: a hundred pitches into a game, you're somewhere through the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: order for the third time, yep. And if you go
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: look at any era of baseball, your results is a
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: pitcher are typically less successful the third time facing a
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: guy compaired to the first and second time.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: You face it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So you're looking at that from a competitive standpoint. You're
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: also looking at workload. So if your fastball velocity. For example,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: there are some guys like Justin Verlander, who is a rare,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: rare breed, and Josh knows exactly where I'm going with this.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Justin Verlander is famous for his.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Veilo going up, up as the game goes on, and
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: if that's the case, you keep him in the baseball game.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: And that's why we've seen Justin Verlander throughout his career,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: even into his late thirties and early forties has had
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the leeway of throwing one hundred and ten hundred and
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: twenty pitches. It's because the analytics tell the story. But
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: for most guys, when you're getting into the eighties, nineties
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: pitch count even one hundred, they're looking at your biometrics.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: How is your ball spinning? Is it breaking the same way?
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Are you getting the same spin rate, are you getting
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: the velocity, are you hitting your spots? Or are you
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: over compensating? Because that's how arm injuries are made. It's
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: not from a guy, you know, just I mean sometimes
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: that happens, right where a guy just tries to do
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: too much and blows his arm out.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: But like candidly, that just happens the dumb pitchers, like.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: People who are playing the position correctly, get hurt from
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: fatigue from overuse. And and that's that's where this one
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: hundred pitch mark it's just a round number that we
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: all cling to.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: But it's just kind of like that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Marker that it's like, all right, like typically this is
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: where it goes. And for young pitchers, it's more of
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a cautionary thing, like could Paul Schimes throw more than
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: one hundred pitches. Absolutely he could, And I think once
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: if this team is competitive, come August, in September, and
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: even October, I think we're gonna see Paul Skiings have
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the green light to throw.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: More than one hundred pitches.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I do, especially in October, because he's.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Built for that now.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: But like if you look under the hood and if
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: if pitch ninety five is looking a lot less appealing
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: than pitch five, then that's incentive to bring in a
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: fresh arm, especially the way bullpens are built right now.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Back in the day, when you're letting guys throw one
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty hundred and sixty pitches, your relievers, aside
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: from your closer, were just guys who were not good
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: enough to be starters. Now these dudes are trained killers.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: They come in with only two pitches, they know how
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: to throw. And like you've seen all the reports in
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: baseball this year, over the last decade, like half the league,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: there's like a fifty percent increase of guys who are
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: throwing a fastball at least five to six miles.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: An hour faster.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: So it's just a different baseball game, and it's it's
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: it's different for durability, it's different for a level of investment.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: It's different.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Different For you know, there are managers who are infamous
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: for having ruined some of the most promising young pitching
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: career of their generation, and that's stuff that might keep
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: them out of Cooper's town.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: No manager wants to.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Have that tag associated with them. So there's a million
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: reasons behind it. It's not just the one hundred thing
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: of oh that's a round number we don't like, so
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: you're done there. So that's the backstory behind it. As
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: far as who makes that decision. For the Pirates, it's
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: a group decision. I know the guy who made it
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: in the prior regime, but like it's a little different
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: now because they have a whole new pitching group, so
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: it's a group decision. They kind of like to review
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: where they want every single guy as an individual plan
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and collectively. Just by nature of the people making these decisions,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: you're gonna have a lot of similar mentalities despite the
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: individual being different.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: That ends my long winded raft, But I hope it
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: was unformative.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: That was perfect.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: The only thing I would add on is I don't
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: foresee this kind of strategy being you know, a whole
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: season long strategy for the Pirates where I think we're
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: gonna see you guys start hitting one hundred here, probably
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: in the next month or so, and just basically go
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: by what the game's telling you, what the guys are
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: telling you in the game, and what the data says
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: and go from there. Josh, you have any thoughts, well.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Real quick, before Josh times in, I just want to say,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: like we talked about Braxton earlier in the show, that's
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: why you limit his pitch count because there's a difference
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: between five high stress innings and five low stress innings.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: M h. And when you're looking at his you.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Know his total, and if it's at one twenty come September,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: but you look and it's like, okay, well half of
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: these were really low stress, then you can push that
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: number up a little bit. So, and we've said this
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: on this show. They are kind of babying these starters
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: right now because they want Paul Schemes to have the
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: opportunity to throw one twenty in September. They want Mitch
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Keller to not bottom out in August like he has
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: in recent years, and they want Bubba Chandler and Jared
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Jones and Braxton Ashcraft and Karmel Maginski to be available
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: to pitch and other than baseball. Should this team be
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: playing it in the final month of the.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: Season, y'all definitely hit it on the head. I'll give
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: a little condensed, little version just to add to that, though,
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: y'all make very valid points because one thing that you said, no,
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: it was stressful winnings. You know, sometimes going through the
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: lineup three times, possibly four, there's most likely gonna come
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: a point, and not a point, there's usually gonna be
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: two innings within there that it's like, oh, he's got
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: to work himself out of a jam, you know, you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: lead off double, Now he's got runners.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: In second and third like trapad or something.
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And all of that plays into physical because once
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: you do that, you throw.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: More pitches now, stressful pitches.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: Now you put more you know, adrenaline you're you're throwing
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: as you say, mechanics may break down.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: I've seen you know what I mean.
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: Oh, man, he's trying to add a little bit more
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: because he doesn't have quite you know, the the crisp
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: feeling that he had the first Cup winnings and then
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: obviously protecting guys as you said, you know, we're here
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: in April. What good does it do to have a
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: guy go out and throw a hundred obviously if he can,
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: but it's got to make sense. And when you got
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: guys that have been coming off injuries, and as you said,
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: you pay attention to analytics and track records of okay
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: Man the past couple of years, Mitch's kind of faded
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: in August. How can we help Mitch, you know, get
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: better in August and so forth, But how can we
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: keep his production the same without feeling like, you know
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: what I mean? How can we help him get over
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: the hump? Because he gets over the hump, it helps
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: us get over the humph. And at the same time,
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: you know that that's a big thing for them. And
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: that's pretty much where I was going. It's like, obviously
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: you'll see guys that can get to a hundred, but
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: it really doesn't make sense. Obviously, you know, as I said,
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: you got guys going one hundred throwing stressful pitches, and
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: you don't have a bullpen really justified doing it this early,
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: like you know what I mean.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Granted, yes you do have a bullpen that.
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: Justified doing this early to say, go through one hundred
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: and fifteen, but you also look at it's April when
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: you don't want to run those guys out. And the
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: last thing I'll leave you it too, is you limit
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: guy's pitch count because it's not spring training. You're not
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: waking up in eighty degree weather every day. You know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: these guys are changing time zones the first month, you're
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: hitting probably three four different climates, So that in itself
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: is enough to where it's like, okay, they're not used
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: to the dry air when they go to Colorado. You
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: don't get that in spring training. You don't get snow,
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: you don't get these things. So these are also things
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: that they have to take into account. A last star
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: was a little dry I I got small blister, So
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: it's okay, maybe these are all things that might not
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: be you know, reported, but at the same time, they
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: have to make it make sense because it's like it
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: doesn't make sense. These are all things that you don't
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: get in spring training. Change the temperature, change a climate,
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: traveling three four hours, so it's got to make sense.
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: But I think they're gonna trend in the right direction
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: obviously as they continue to stay competitive. That right there
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: is grounds for you to say all right, guys have
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: at it, but until you really do it consistent, doesn't
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: make sense to run these guys in the ground.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: In one final note, it's it's a lot easier to
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: manage workloads of guys who have been.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: In the major leagues. Yeah, look at this rotation right now.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I mean Paul Skins.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: It's Paul and Keller like Paul, Yeah, Paul, there's no
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: work load restriction.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Like the only way there would be now is if
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: they were like in last place.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Like kind of like last year.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't think there were a lot of restrictions
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: on Paul Skins until they fell so far out of
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: contention they're like, hey, there's no point in you throwing
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: two hundred twenty innings in a last place.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna exactly, You're still going to get what
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you get, and you'll.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Build that workload up in the backfields and everything in
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: the bullpen sessions. You'll be stretched out and ready to
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: make a thirty to forty inning drunk because you but
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: it just won't show in the field, uh, on the field.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you look, I mean Bubba Rookie Ashcraft. We
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: talked about Carleen Maczinski never had a full season as
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: a major league starter. Jared Jones, same and injury history.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Hunter Barco same and injury history. Thomas Harrington hasn't had
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: a full year in the big leagues yet. Like, this
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: is what they're working with right now.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: So their babies, so they kind of need to be babies.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, baby, need you need to figure out how who can't.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Hindle the building? Yeah, they're building there, They're getting the
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: data right now.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: To say, okay, this There's there's two ways to go
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: about building that data.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: There's option one where you throw them out there and
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: see if they.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Get hurt or not, and that's probably not the smartest
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: way to go about it. Or there's option two where
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: you're probably safer than you need to be, but there's
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: a reason.
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: You do that.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Mark tell them what we need the listeners
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: and viewers to do.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we need you to hit that subscribe button,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: maybe hit all like you know, dry comment, you know,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: maybe give us a question for next week or something,
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: or just how you're feeling on the team. But we'd
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: love to hear from you. Guys. Love reading those comments,
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: and I love seeing all the new subscribers. And then
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: finally check out the Bucket Territory merch store here. We
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: got some great shirts, you know, and still some cold
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: weather at PNC, so you know, get yourself a hoodie
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: a beanie here and show up and support the Pirates
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: in style. Any final thoughts, Knowinger, Josh.
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: We're recording us on Tuesday.
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: Final thoughts is they had an off day yesterday traveling
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: in Texas. Excited to see the series and honestly, keep
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: the moment. I'm going they've been winning series home road.
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: Continue to keep that going because you're doing that, especially
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: with the we've already talked on, you know, the games
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: that they've kind of let get away. They title those
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: things up. They'll be doing, you know, some pretty special things.
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: But I think this is a good day to have
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: a reset day after yesterday and come out and you know,
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: clean up those things that we've talked about.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: The past week.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I I have no foreign of thoughts.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Just keep subscribing.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Tell your friends he's Josh Harrison, He's Platinum, k A. K. Mark,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I'm no Ohio signing off same, see you next time
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: here on Bucko Territory.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: H