Latest / Story Magic / 110 - Dealing with post-book-release emotions

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110 - Dealing with post-book-release emotions · Story Magic

2:14
Emily: Foreign.
2:27
Emily: Hey, writers.
2:28
Rachel: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
2:32
Emily: I'm Emily.
2:33
Rachel: And I'm Rachel.
2:35
Emily: And today we are talking about post release.
2:40
Emily: Blues, Flash. Emotions, all emotions.
2:43
Emily: All of the emotions that come after post release.
2:49
Emily: Having a book out in the world is a crazy thing.
2:53
Rachel: Yeah, it is.
2:55
Rachel: Highs, lows, perceived.
2:58
Emily: Most of them are unexpected.
3:00
Rachel: Yeah, yeah, I, I, it feels like, it feels like one of those things.
3:04
Rachel: Like, okay, I don't really enjoy the comparison of putting a book into the world the same as childbirth.
3:13
Rachel: And a lot of people make that comparison.
3:15
Rachel: And it's not my favorite thing, but I'm going to use it for just a second.
3:19
Rachel: Not only in the sense of, like, you don't know.
3:24
Rachel: You can be so prepared for childbirth and feel like you know what it will be like.
3:29
Rachel: And then as soon as you live it, it is not at all what you think it's going to be like in every single situation.
3:35
Rachel: Like, you just don't know until you live it.
3:39
Rachel: So that's the comparison that I'm making is like, you can feel like you know exactly what's going to happen.
3:44
Rachel: You are going to birth a baby, but you have and you're going to put your book into the world.
3:48
Rachel: But until that book is out and until you've, like, lived through what that experience is like, you have no idea what that experience is like.
3:57
Emily: Yeah. Because it's different for every single person because it's such like a, Putting a book into the world is a super vulnerable thing.
4:05
Emily: And we have very personal reasons why we write our books.
4:08
Emily: Very.
4:09
Emily: We have subconscious reasons why we write our books.
4:11
Emily: Right.
4:11
Emily: We have subconscious desires of what we want to get out of writing our books and, like, having readers read our books.
4:18
Emily: And you just can't, you just can't prepare.
4:20
Emily: You can't prepare for what's going to bubble up to the surface when that's finally happening.
4:24
Emily: And people are looking at this piece of your heart that you've put out into the world.
4:28
Emily: And I mean that both in the positive and negative so side of it.
4:31
Emily: Like, there have been moments that have struck me so positively that I just didn't even expect, like, I just.
4:38
Emily: So a couple weeks ago, I got copies of my Hungarian version translation of behind the Crimson Curtain.
4:45
Emily: And I was not prepared for how it would feel to see my story in a different language.
4:50
Emily: It was bonkers.
4:52
Rachel: Yeah.
4:52
Emily: And it was just like, not something that I, like, thought about or like, thought I would even feel anything any which way about.
4:58
Emily: But it was, it was just one of those moments where I had this, like, really unexpected positive feeling.
5:02
Emily: And I feel like, you know, we talk so much about the negatives, and the negatives are important to talk about and like, process, but I think it on both accounts, like, you're gonna feel excited and feel despair at like, these super random moments that are gonna, you know, you're not gonna expect.
5:17
Rachel: Yeah, I. I think, like, you can, you can do your best to like, prepare yourself for what it will be like, but until you feel it and see what comes up, you don't know and has been different for me.
5:32
Rachel: So even when I thought how, like, what my first book was like was not the same as what my second book was like and was not the same as, like, what my third book was like, I will say that I think, like, I do this.
5:46
Rachel: So this topic was posed to us by a TW member who has been through the release process.
5:54
Rachel: So when we're talking about like post release blues, I think it's.
5:58
Rachel: I think there is both an energetic crash after a release as well as like an emotional crash after a release.
6:06
Rachel: And it's not in.
6:07
Rachel: It's not only because of negative, like negative reviews or negative critiques.
6:12
Rachel: It's just like you look forward to this thing and you work so hard for this thing to come out, and then after it comes out, it's like burnout.
6:19
Emily: Like, that's what, like your wedding?
6:21
Rachel: Yeah, like your wedding.
6:22
Rachel: You plan so hard for the wedding, and then after it's over, you're like, okay, number one, now what?
6:26
Rachel: And number two, I'm so tired of so much work.
6:31
Rachel: That was so much work.
6:32
Emily: I have to just keep marketing this thing forever.
6:35
Rachel: Forever.
6:36
Rachel: This is my life now.
6:38
Rachel: So I think, like, each book is different.
6:42
Rachel: But what I have noticed is that the more I've worked on my mindset generally, such as hustle culture and imposter syndrome and perfectionism and like, managing, you know, my own emotions, I think that crash period has become shorter.
6:58
Rachel: So, like, there's.
7:00
Rachel: It exists.
7:01
Rachel: I still feel really bad, but for not as long.
7:05
Rachel: And I think that's a win.
7:07
Emily: Yeah.
7:08
Emily: Well, and I think that goes to this idea that sometimes I see writers put their entire hearts and souls into this external thing that they're putting into the world.
7:18
Emily: And I think that that can be dangerous because when you're like, pinning your self worth and pinning all of your energy and pinning all of your hopes and dreams and, you know, like all of these things externally into this object and then it goes out into the world.
7:32
Emily: Like there's this, this massive outpouring of like energy and hope and desire and it's all this stuff and then it's not gonna go the way you expect it to.
7:43
Emily: It might go better, it might go worse.
7:44
Emily: You don't, you never know, right?
7:44
Emily: Like, it might just look very different than what it might not be better or worse, it might just look very different, but it's just not gonna be whatever you have, the way that nothing ever is, you know, your wedding or you're birthing your child.
7:57
Emily: But I feel like if all of like your self validation and self worth is like externalized into this thing, like that's going to be a really big crash when you realize now it's out there now what, right?
8:10
Emily: Like now you've externalized everything and now it's being judged, now it's being reviewed, now it's kind of out there forever.
8:16
Emily: Now you have nothing to like look forward to until you start your new project.
8:21
Emily: But then that's right, that comes with its own baggage.
8:24
Emily: So I just feel like the more that you can work on, My point is that the more that you can work on validating yourself, validating your stories, you know, it's just another day when your book comes out and every day after that, it's just another day.
8:36
Emily: And I don't want to minimize the importance of having your book in the world because that's a very powerful and important thing that you should celebrate.
8:42
Emily: But just like you can't put all your self worth eggs in that basket or it's, it's gonna be really difficult.
8:49
Emily: And so I think working on your mindset, like you said, can shorten that or, or dampen, shorten.
8:57
Emily: I don't know what the right word is.
8:58
Emily: But that kind of, that period afterwards where it kind of feels bad.
9:02
Rachel: Yeah, I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of really high highs in the celebration.
9:08
Rachel: And then there's like sometimes almost an immediate like low depending on how you're like existing within the book release.
9:20
Rachel: Like, let's say you get tagged in like this 5 star review on Instagram and this person is like, this is the best book I've ever read.
9:28
Rachel: Oh my God, it's life changing.
9:29
Rachel: And then you're like, ooh, let me go check my goodreads and see what my rating is at.
9:33
Rachel: And then like there's like a two star review and you're like, oh my God, everybody hates.
9:38
Rachel: It's so high, low, high, low.
9:41
Rachel: And it, that is also very exhausting.
9:45
Rachel: I Think knowing like being able to put boundaries in place for yourself helps manage like that.
9:56
Rachel: Manage how great that whiplash can be.
10:02
Rachel: Perhaps like with this third, with my third book, with this book that just came out, I was like, I'm not gonna get on Goodreads.
10:10
Rachel: I'll do maybe like once a week so I can see like how is this trending?
10:15
Rachel: But I'm not gonna check.
10:17
Rachel: Like, I mean with my first book and my second book, I was checking like multiple times a day, like, what's going on?
10:21
Rachel: How's this going?
10:23
Rachel: And then for this one I was like, I kind of don't care because this book is way more important to me.
10:30
Rachel: I don't.
10:30
Rachel: Like, I felt I'm so much.
10:33
Rachel: This book I felt like was very personal in a way that the others maybe weren't and or weren't as personal.
10:40
Rachel: And I was extra in, tuned to all the critical feedback.
10:46
Rachel: So this boundary was essential for me this time of like, I know who my ideal reader is.
10:52
Rachel: I'm not going to look.
10:53
Rachel: It's very nice to be tagged in 5 star reviews.
10:56
Rachel: I'm not going to look at Goodreads.
10:58
Rachel: It's just going to upset me.
11:00
Emily: Yeah.
11:01
Rachel: Not gonna do it.
11:03
Rachel: Yeah. So I think like dealing with some of that perception is like protecting how you get to perceive others.
11:13
Rachel: Like it's so hard to be seen and to have people like look into this parts of you.
11:20
Rachel: But that doesn't mean you need to be aware of what they're seeing.
11:25
Emily: Yeah, yeah.
11:27
Emily: Boundaries are important.
11:28
Emily: And like setting those boundaries even if you're not sure that you're gonna need them.
11:31
Emily: Like I feel like I set those boundaries for Crimson.
11:33
Emily: Cause I didn't know what was gonna happen.
11:35
Emily: And then I ended up not being as rattled by the reviews as I thought I was gonna be.
11:39
Emily: And so I didn't, you know, I was able to take those boundaries back, roll them back a little bit.
11:43
Emily: Cause I found that reading the reviews was actually very helpful for me.
11:46
Emily: Cause it helped me feel connected to the fact that the book was in the world.
11:50
Emily: Because it's such a strange thing.
11:51
Emily: Like it's just another day when the book comes out.
11:53
Emily: And like that week is just another week.
11:55
Emily: And so it doesn't really feel like your book is out there unless knew about it.
11:59
Emily: So for me at least like it ended up being a good thing.
12:01
Emily: But I didn't know, you know, I didn't know if it was gonna be really difficult for me to read those.
12:07
Emily: So it's just.
12:07
Emily: Yeah, everybody's different.
12:08
Emily: Everybody's super different.
12:10
Emily: I don't have ups and downs because I.
12:13
Emily: To lock myself in an emotional vault.
12:17
Rachel: So you allow yourself nothing.
12:19
Rachel: Rather than feeling the high and the low.
12:21
Rachel: You are like, I'm not feeling.
12:23
Emily: It's done, it's over.
12:24
Emily: I wrote it a year ago.
12:26
Emily: I don't care what happens.
12:27
Emily: I'm moving on.
12:28
Emily: No, that's, for various reasons, was a coping mechanism for me this time.
12:33
Emily: I think just like, I just.
12:35
Emily: I needed to not engage.
12:37
Emily: Um, and that, you know, that's not good or bad, it just is.
12:42
Emily: But I feel like if you're listening to this and you're like, well, I didn't have highs and lows.
12:45
Emily: I just feel numb to everything.
12:47
Emily: Like, me too.
12:50
Rachel: Yeah. I mean, that's also like.
12:52
Rachel: I think there's a crash in there.
12:57
Rachel: Like, there's a. There's stuff in there, but it's.
13:04
Rachel: However you're dealing with it, I think being aware of what you're doing is really key.
13:10
Rachel: There's no. There's no right or wrong way to, like, deal with it because it's just part of it.
13:15
Rachel: And then you're just trying to, like, protect yourself so that you can keep going.
13:21
Emily: Yeah.
13:22
Emily: For me, I had to just throw myself into my next project.
13:24
Emily: And that was what I was doing that week.
13:26
Emily: And I was just looking forward.
13:29
Emily: It's different for everybody.
13:31
Rachel: Yeah.
13:32
Rachel: I think sometimes during release weeks, I've had three very positive release weeks, which is a really solid.
13:44
Rachel: That's a very good experience.
13:46
Rachel: So every time that one of my books has come out, the interest and the feedback has been, like, overwhelmingly positive.
13:53
Rachel: But then I always find there's this, like, drop off.
13:56
Rachel: And this was particularly, like.
14:01
Rachel: I wouldn't say upsetting, but I was very aware of it when Blood in the Water came out.
14:06
Rachel: Because I feel like that day, like, that one day, I mean, I was tagged in so many things.
14:13
Rachel: There was.
14:14
Rachel: There was so much chatter, at least that I was getting.
14:17
Rachel: I was getting dms from people.
14:18
Rachel: I was getting, like.
14:19
Rachel: I could see my Kindle numbers and they were like, blowing me away with how high they were.
14:25
Rachel: And then like a week later, it had this really steep drop off.
14:29
Rachel: And logically, like, that made sense to be like, oh, well, the book came out and everybody was reading it.
14:34
Rachel: And then now it's out and all those people have read it, and then now I have to find new people to read it.
14:40
Rachel: Oh, like, so then I could feel this, like, whoosh.
14:45
Rachel: It's. The hype is done, you know, and that's always a tricky part to manage But I think is very standard in like an indie release.
14:54
Rachel: I mean, in any kind of release.
14:55
Rachel: But when you can physically see the sales numbers representing how many people are reading your book, and then you can physically see those numbers drop and then, you know, not as many people are reading my book and you get all these questions in your head of like, how can I find more people to read my book?
15:12
Rachel: And I thought these numbers were gonna be like, linear and sustainable and like.
15:17
Rachel: No, there's just a spike on release day.
15:19
Rachel: That's how it happens for everybody.
15:21
Rachel: There's always gonna be a spike on release day.
15:23
Rachel: There's always gonna be a drop off afterwards.
15:26
Rachel: And then you have to manage like that and what it feels like for the hype to dissipate, like, oh, no, people don't like my book anymore.
15:34
Rachel: Like, no, that's, that's not true.
15:36
Rachel: But everybody has the intention span of a gnat, so they move on to the next thing and in comes marketing.
15:46
Emily: Yeah.
15:47
Rachel: Oh, then you have to market nonstop.
15:50
Rachel: But I think that that part of the crash is also very normal where you have a spike in hype and then the hype settles.
15:58
Emily: Yeah.
15:59
Rachel: And that doesn't mean that anything wrong has happened.
16:02
Rachel: It just like your mindset there shifts from celebrating the release to sustaining or protecting or taking care of yourself to continue into the next project.
16:16
Rachel: I think.
16:17
Rachel: Yeah, like, yeah, you don't want to be obsessed about after the buzz dies down, like getting the buzz back, but you want to be focused on, like, what is on the horizon and maintaining.
16:30
Rachel: Like, I want this book to what?
16:32
Rachel: These are my goals.
16:34
Rachel: Assuming they're your goals also.
16:36
Rachel: Not you, Emily, but, like, the, the greater you, the royal you.
16:39
Rachel: Um, like, if your goals are that you want people to keep reading, then you have to find this balance of like, sustaining, finding those readers while also, like, giving yourself time and energy to work on a new project.
16:53
Rachel: Because the way that this world works is like, you publish one book and then you unfortunately immediately have more work to do.
17:01
Emily: Yeah.
17:02
Rachel: Because you probably want to publish another book and make more money and earn more income and create like a career out of this.
17:10
Rachel: That's how it works.
17:11
Rachel: So you feel like one book is done, and then as soon as that book is over, you look up and you're like, okay, cool, I have a backlist of 20 that I need to make.
17:19
Rachel: So getting back into it.
17:21
Rachel: Let's get back to drafting.
17:23
Emily: Yeah, I think it's this fine line between, like, making sure you allow yourself and I'm bad at this, but making sure you allow Yourself to, like, sit in the moment and celebrate what you have achieved, because that's very important.
17:32
Emily: But then also, like you said, when you finally come out of that and look up, you're looking forward.
17:38
Rachel: Right.
17:39
Emily: And a huge part of that question of now, what needs to be.
17:42
Emily: What do you need to do to get your mindset back on track to write the next book?
17:47
Emily: Right?
17:47
Emily: Because you might need it.
17:48
Emily: You might not need to start.
17:50
Emily: Like, I was already deep in another project.
17:52
Emily: I was like, I just need to.
17:53
Emily: Like, I need to look forward before this book even comes out for other people.
17:56
Emily: Like, you might need to take a rest.
17:58
Emily: You might need a few weeks off to, like, remind yourself why you're doing all of this in the first place.
18:02
Emily: And, like, that you love your family and want to do all these other things.
18:05
Emily: You have other interests before you start your next project.
18:08
Emily: And all of that is valid, right?
18:08
Emily: All of that is contributing to your ability to work on your next project if that's what you end up needing.
18:16
Emily: And so I think it's important, like you said, to, like, to look up, look forward, and then ask yourself, what do you need to do to sustain?
18:24
Rachel: Yes.
18:25
Rachel: Yeah.
18:25
Rachel: And if it is, I think also knowing what your goals are in the process, that you're doing it.
18:32
Rachel: Because I know writers that just want to write one book, and then they're like, this is all.
18:36
Rachel: This is.
18:36
Rachel: My dream is one.
18:37
Rachel: You're like, okay, cool.
18:39
Rachel: But then I also know people that are like, I want to make this a career.
18:45
Rachel: And when you get to that point where you realize one book being done is not done, like, there's more, that's a jarring moment.
18:58
Rachel: And that I feel like that's another thing that you can understand theoretically, but you don't know how it feels until you get there.
19:05
Rachel: But that's also why I think it's so critical to be aware of hustle culture and to take time off when you need it, because it is incredibly easy to just keep going and, like, go from one project to the next without any type of break or rest or what.
19:24
Rachel: It doesn't matter at what point the rest happens.
19:26
Rachel: So I'm not saying you.
19:28
Rachel: Like you were just saying you immediately went into your next project and that's fine.
19:31
Rachel: I'm not saying you should have stopped.
19:32
Rachel: I'm saying.
19:33
Rachel: And you know this.
19:34
Rachel: But, yeah, the rest needs to happen.
19:38
Rachel: You cannot just keep going.
19:39
Rachel: That's not sustainable.
19:41
Emily: Yeah. For me, the rest happened between drafts of my new project.
19:44
Emily: It did not happen because of my release date of my previous project.
19:49
Emily: But I definitely.
19:50
Emily: Yeah, I've definitely taken many weeks off of rest this summer to recuperate and just remember why we're doing this in the first place.
19:59
Emily: I think that's really important.
20:00
Emily: Everybody has a different personal reason for why they're doing this.
20:04
Emily: Um, and you gotta.
20:05
Emily: You gotta stop and, like, step back to, like, reconnect with that, I think.
20:09
Emily: Regularly.
20:11
Rachel: Yeah, regularly.
20:12
Rachel: And. And like, my period of, like, I feel like I'm coming out of that rest side.
20:17
Rachel: But I was definitely, like, exhausted after this last book came out.
20:21
Rachel: And that was due to a lot of factors, like due to the fit, the constant fatigue that I had all summer long, and then also the moving, settling into a new house, starting a new school year, getting the book out.
20:36
Rachel: I was just, like, done when the book.
20:39
Rachel: I was pushing to get the book out.
20:41
Rachel: And when the book was out, I was like, I can do nothing.
20:45
Rachel: I'm going to read and I'm going to play the Sims and I'm going to play Marvel Rivals, and I'm going to just chill for a couple weeks.
20:50
Rachel: And I also felt like my brain was incapable of starting a new project.
20:54
Rachel: I was like, I have no ideas, or I have plenty of ideas, but, like, no, I just really didn't feel connected to the next project at all.
21:04
Rachel: And it's been two weeks since my book came out, and I'm starting to get, like, ideas again.
21:10
Rachel: I'm starting to feel like, oh, yeah, I could start writing that.
21:13
Rachel: And I also intentionally took a pause because there were some work projects that I knew I needed to complete before I fell back into, like, the drafting hole.
21:23
Rachel: But I think take being aware of what you need during that time and then also letting your body choose when you're ready to keep going.
21:34
Emily: Yeah.
21:34
Rachel: Because my body was like, even if you gave me a timeline, it means nothing.
21:41
Rachel: I will let you know when you're ready to start writing again.
21:46
Rachel: And I can start feeling it.
21:47
Rachel: I can feel, like, the.
21:48
Rachel: The urge and desire return.
21:50
Rachel: But I still don't think I'm, like, quite ready to dive back into drafting.
21:54
Rachel: I want to do some other.
21:55
Rachel: Like, I'm painting the office.
21:56
Rachel: I'm like, I'm not going to start drafting until I'm done with my office.
21:59
Rachel: Yeah, there's other things that need to happen.
22:03
Emily: Yeah.
22:05
Emily: Yeah. I think if you take away anything, it's that you got to be aware.
22:08
Emily: You got to, like.
22:09
Emily: You got to give yourself the space and the time and whatever that looks like for you there.
22:13
Emily: It's like going on walks and just thinking or journaling or whatever it is.
22:17
Emily: You've got to give yourself the space and time to like, sit with what you're feeling and like, identify what you're feeling and then give yourself what you need.
22:23
Emily: I think the worst thing we can do is just barrel forward listening to Hustle Culture's rules, because we are not taking the time to like, stop and actually analyze what's going on with us.
22:32
Emily: Because nobody can tell you what's going on.
22:34
Emily: It's different for everybody.
22:35
Emily: Only you can answer that question.
22:37
Emily: So you gotta, if you, if anything, just build time and space into the weeks after your release to, to let yourself, like, self analyze.
22:47
Rachel: Yeah. Process it.
22:48
Rachel: You have to process going through this a lot.
22:52
Rachel: And I think part of that is being really engaged with a writing community that can understand and that can also listen.
23:00
Rachel: Because I swear I wouldn't be able to go through any of this unless I had people to message and be like, I think I'm going to tear my hair out or I got this really cool review, or I'm so tired, I don't want to do anything.
23:17
Rachel: Like, just having people to connect with, like, is incredibly important.
23:25
Rachel: And in being able to talk about it, to process, it was really helpful to me to like, talk it out loud to other, like, my writing friends who can get it.
23:35
Rachel: So if you don't have that, I think that that's really important to this process.
23:40
Rachel: And if you're in the midst of that, I would go find someone you can trust that you can talk about it with, even if you're not sure how to process it.
23:47
Rachel: I think talking about it out loud helps you process it.
23:51
Emily: Yeah, yeah.
23:52
Emily: And give people the space and opportunity to celebrate you.
23:55
Emily: If you're like me and you locker emotions in a vault and then you just like, don't do anything and then you not allowed to get sad when nobody celebrates your book because you didn't, like, promote yourself.
24:07
Emily: Like, I, I created space for myself at my local bookstore.
24:11
Emily: I did a little signing and like, my friend, you know, like, I invited everybody to come and they showed up and they celebrated me and like.
24:17
Emily: But I had to put the effort in to do that.
24:19
Emily: You know what I mean?
24:20
Emily: Like, no. Yeah.
24:21
Emily: Like, your, your people love you, but, like, don't expect them to, like, go out of their way without you inviting them to, you know.
24:27
Emily: Yes.
24:29
Emily: Because especially people who aren't writers.
24:31
Emily: Right?
24:31
Emily: Like, they don't, they don't get it the quite the same.
24:33
Emily: And so you got to give them the space to do that.
24:36
Emily: Especially if all your friends are parents, they're not going to remember your release date.
24:40
Rachel: And they're like, they're going to care, but it's so.
24:44
Rachel: It's also really hard to know how another person is going to deal with it.
24:49
Rachel: Yeah, it kind of feels to me like, you know when you're like, it's your birthday and your 30s, and, like, no one's going to plan you a party unless you plan a party.
24:58
Rachel: And then if you don't plan a party, you're going to be all sulky on your birthday because, like, no one give you presents or wish you happy birthday.
25:04
Rachel: But you also didn't, like, invite anybody to celebrate with you.
25:08
Rachel: Yeah, like that.
25:10
Rachel: It's the same thing.
25:11
Emily: It's like, totally.
25:14
Rachel: But you're also, like, allowed to have a party.
25:16
Rachel: You, like, can be happy and excited about this, and you can invite people to be like, hey, this is really important to me.
25:24
Rachel: Or you can tell them, hey, I'm really nervous about this.
25:27
Rachel: Can you help me?
25:28
Rachel: Yeah. Can you hype me up a lot?
25:30
Emily: Yeah, you gotta ask.
25:31
Emily: You gotta ask for what you need.
25:33
Emily: My husband's last love language is like, any kind of gifts or service.
25:38
Emily: So, like, he did literally nothing for my launch day.
25:40
Emily: And I was like, internally, I was like, the teensy has been annoyed.
25:43
Emily: And then I was like, yeah, no, it's not in his nature.
25:46
Emily: I have to ask for it.
25:48
Emily: Like.
25:48
Emily: And so you gotta just be aware of that.
25:51
Emily: And.
25:52
Rachel: Yeah.
25:53
Emily: And yeah, it's.
25:53
Emily: Yeah, it's like your birthday in your 30s.
25:55
Emily: That's a great analogy.
25:57
Rachel: Yes. Like, the likelihood of someone just giving you a party.
26:04
Emily: Low, low.
26:05
Emily: And if you have a partner who does that, oh, God bless them.
26:08
Emily: Love them forever.
26:09
Emily: Yes.
26:10
Rachel: And. And like, I.
26:12
Rachel: I think will always gets me a cake, which is really nice.
26:17
Rachel: And I do think that, like, I will.
26:19
Rachel: He'll always be like, let's order dinner.
26:21
Rachel: You know, something like that.
26:22
Emily: Yeah.
26:22
Rachel: Which is lovely.
26:23
Rachel: But outside that circle, you're still allowed to be like, hey, fin friends, let's go do something.
26:30
Rachel: You know, because I usually end up being like, I just want to order dinner and stay at home and talk to nobody because I'm so tired.
26:37
Rachel: And he's.
26:38
Rachel: And he's lovely.
26:39
Rachel: And he's like, okay, great, let's get some sushi.
26:41
Rachel: And I'm like, I love sushi.
26:41
Rachel: Let's do that.
26:42
Rachel: But then my other friend is like, let's go out to dinner.
26:45
Rachel: And I'm like, I don't.
26:47
Rachel: I would love to.
26:48
Rachel: That's a great idea.
26:49
Rachel: We should go out to dinner.
26:50
Rachel: Or I should Be like, hey, all my friends around here, let's have a party.
26:55
Rachel: Because I had a book come out, and that's pretty awesome.
26:58
Rachel: But it again goes back to, I don't want to be perceived.
27:01
Rachel: I don't want to be seen.
27:02
Rachel: What if this isn't as exciting as I thought it was going to be?
27:06
Rachel: But if you let people celebrate you, I think it's a much more positive experience.
27:10
Rachel: You.
27:10
Rachel: You're in charge.
27:11
Rachel: Like, you get to control this experience to a certain degree, and you kind of have to.
27:16
Emily: I think that's the point, right?
27:16
Emily: Like, if.
27:19
Emily: And ask yourself, like, what do I need?
27:19
Emily: I need my friends to celebrate me, right?
27:22
Rachel: Then, like, ask for that.
27:24
Emily: You know what I mean?
27:24
Emily: And if you're like, sit with what you need, and you need to sit home and eat sushi with your husband, then, like, ask for that, right?
27:30
Emily: And, like, love will.
27:32
Emily: You didn't have to ask for it.
27:33
Emily: It's amazing, you know?
27:33
Emily: But, like, with my husband, I could have asked to get takeout.
27:37
Emily: I didn't.
27:38
Emily: And it's fine.
27:38
Emily: That's on me.
27:41
Emily: You see what I'm saying?
27:41
Emily: Like, you have to know what it is that you need.
27:44
Emily: And, like, ultimately, that wasn't something I really needed.
27:46
Emily: Right.
27:46
Emily: It was my ego being like, I want this.
27:49
Emily: I want to be perceived just a tiny bit.
27:53
Emily: But you have to.
27:53
Emily: Yeah, you have to sit with that and just recognize what it is that you need and want.
27:59
Emily: You know, you can get what you want, too.
28:01
Emily: It doesn't have to be what you need.
28:03
Emily: And just ask for it.
28:04
Emily: Go for it.
28:05
Emily: Throw yourself a party.
28:06
Emily: Or don't.
28:08
Emily: Whatever it is that you want or.
28:10
Rachel: Or ask someone to throw you a party if you're like, I really want.
28:14
Rachel: It's your birthday party in your 30s.
28:16
Rachel: If you want someone to throw you a party, you just have to be like, hey, please throw me a party.
28:21
Rachel: And I guarantee you they'll be like, okay.
28:24
Rachel: Like, I. If you're asking someone to throw you a party and they're like, no, you don't deserve one.
28:27
Rachel: Don't be with that person.
28:29
Rachel: Like, that's a red flag.
28:31
Rachel: Get out.
28:32
Rachel: But if you're like, hey, I really want a party for this.
28:36
Rachel: Can you help me?
28:36
Rachel: Can you throw me one?
28:38
Rachel: And then, like, that person's going to say yes if they love you.
28:41
Emily: Yeah.
28:42
Rachel: So, yeah, yeah, do that.
28:46
Emily: Lean on your people.
28:47
Emily: Okay, we're on a tangent.
28:48
Rachel: I know.
28:49
Rachel: Yes. That's all.
28:51
Rachel: That's all I have to say about.
28:52
Emily: That's what we got.
28:54
Rachel: Yes.
28:55
Rachel: This is a Dealing with all of this is tricky.
28:59
Rachel: So just, like, lean on the people around you and be aware of what you need and take time and space and take breaks and talk about it and, I don't know, like, talk about it.
29:10
Rachel: If you have a therapist, talk about with your therapist.
29:12
Rachel: This is, like, real stuff.
29:13
Rachel: I do think people minimize what these emotions feel like because they don't.
29:19
Rachel: They don't want to deal with if they like.
29:21
Rachel: It's almost shameful to have big emotions regarding it.
29:26
Rachel: It's fine.
29:26
Rachel: Just let it pass through you.
29:30
Rachel: You can feel what you need to feel.
29:31
Rachel: You can have a rough couple days, or you can have a very happy couple days.
29:36
Rachel: Move on.
29:37
Rachel: Or you can have, like.
29:38
Rachel: Yeah, you can have, like, an up.
29:39
Rachel: You can have a whiplash between the two.
29:41
Rachel: That's how mine felt.
29:42
Rachel: Was, like, really, really happy.
29:44
Rachel: And then the next day I was like, this sucks.
29:46
Rachel: And then the next day I was like, this is great.
29:48
Rachel: And it just goes up and down, but you just let it happen.
29:52
Rachel: There's no shame.
29:53
Rachel: Don't let any part of this create shame in you.
29:57
Emily: No shame.
29:58
Emily: Self awareness and community.
29:59
Emily: There we go.
30:01
Emily: Those are our checks.
30:02
Rachel: Check, check, check, check, check.
30:04
Rachel: You guys got this.
30:05
Rachel: We have solved this equation.
30:12
Rachel: We're brilliant.
30:13
Rachel: We're so smart.
30:16
Rachel: See, this is what happens when I get in front of a podcast mic.
30:19
Rachel: Like, I have all the answers.
30:21
Rachel: There's just something magical about, like, what this mic makes you feel.
30:25
Rachel: So if you need confidence, go start a podcast.
30:31
Emily: Last piece of advice.
30:33
Rachel: Yeah.
30:33
Emily: Okay.
30:36
Rachel: All right.
30:38
Rachel: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
30:44
Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
30:47
Emily: After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
30:52
Rachel: Link in the show notes.
30:53
Emily: We'll see you there by it.