Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 791: Beyond the Script: Gordy Hoffman’s Guide to Emotional Storytelling

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IFH 791: Beyond the Script: Gordy Hoffman’s Guide to Emotional Storytelling · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number seven
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Speaker 2: ninety one. First Think, Second Dream, Third, Believe and finally
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Speaker 2: Dare Walt Disney.
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Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Back Alley and Hollywood. It's the Indie
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Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast.
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Speaker 4: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari.
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1:52
Speaker 4: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
1:55
Speaker 5: My next guest is a screenwriter and director. His film
1:59
Speaker 5: Love Liza won the Waldo Salt Screening Award at the
2:02
Speaker 5: two thousand and two Sundance Film Festival. His other film
2:06
Speaker 5: Dog Bowl, were premiered at the twenty fifteen Sundance Film Festival.
2:11
Speaker 5: We're gonna talk all about Paul Thomas Anderson, and we're
2:14
Speaker 5: gonna talk a little about fanom Thread. We're gonna talk
2:16
Speaker 5: about all that good stuff because this guest has you know,
2:20
Speaker 5: been down the road a couple of times.
2:21
Speaker 3: And we're also gonna talk about obviously.
2:23
Speaker 5: The Blue Cat screenwriting competition, which some deadlines are coming up,
2:27
Speaker 5: but I've also linked to those in the show notes,
2:29
Speaker 5: and also all of the movies we talk about are
2:31
Speaker 5: in the show notes again Dave Bullis dot com. Just
2:34
Speaker 5: remember that so in case you needed for later. But
2:37
Speaker 5: with guest Gordie Hoffman. You know, Gordy, I've actually you know,
2:42
Speaker 5: followed you for a while. I've actually entered the Blue
2:44
Speaker 5: Cat a few times. I've seen a few webinars. You know,
2:49
Speaker 5: not only is Blue Cat awesome, but but Gordy, you're
2:51
Speaker 5: kind of like the the the guy that you want
2:54
Speaker 5: to learn writing from because you're so like good natured.
2:57
Speaker 3: And you just like have that attitude, you know what
2:58
Speaker 3: I mean, Like you just.
3:00
Speaker 5: Seem like you not only know what you're doing, but
3:03
Speaker 5: but you know what I mean, Like it's that that
3:05
Speaker 5: that you have the personality that sort of comes through
3:07
Speaker 5: if you know what I'm.
3:08
Speaker 6: Trying to say, Well, you know, well, thank you, that's
3:11
Speaker 6: very that's very sweet to say. And you know, I
3:14
Speaker 6: learned uh, probably a long time ago that, you know,
3:18
Speaker 6: when I was directing and uh, when I got into
3:21
Speaker 6: teaching that uh, you know, being loving and kind and
3:28
Speaker 6: courteous when you're talking to somebody about their stuff and
3:31
Speaker 6: trying to be makes them more receptive. I mean, if
3:33
Speaker 6: you ultimately want to help people and serve them and
3:36
Speaker 6: give them some information to help them with their writing,
3:38
Speaker 6: you want them to be able to listen and hear
3:41
Speaker 6: what you're saying. And you know, people get you know,
3:45
Speaker 6: no one wants to be sort of get negative or
3:48
Speaker 6: sort of shaming or anything, or like be denigrated or
3:52
Speaker 6: discouraged in a way. It's just it shuts people down
3:57
Speaker 6: and they're not going to produce. Actors getting nervous, kru
4:01
Speaker 6: gets angry, resentful, they're.
4:03
Speaker 7: Not going to be.
4:04
Speaker 6: But if you're kind of courteous and respectful when you're
4:07
Speaker 6: making a film and uh, and when you're talking to
4:10
Speaker 6: people about their work, it's difficult sometimes to navigate that.
4:15
Speaker 7: But it's something that.
4:15
Speaker 6: We stress with our readers often. You know, we just say,
4:20
Speaker 6: you know, you got to be you are talking to
4:21
Speaker 6: the reader when you're setting you know, writing up the
4:23
Speaker 6: notes and and no one you know, it's just natural.
4:28
Speaker 6: It's just no one wants to People tend to shut down.
4:31
Speaker 6: They're not going to listen, they're not going to hear
4:32
Speaker 6: the notes if if they're delivered in a way. So
4:35
Speaker 6: over time, I think, you know, I'm just not the
4:40
Speaker 6: you know, it's not really I guess, you know, there's
4:42
Speaker 6: probably some higher ethical reasons why you should be good
4:46
Speaker 6: to nice people. But it's also it's also very practical,
4:49
Speaker 6: you know. It's also it's also practical if you want
4:52
Speaker 6: to actually tell a better story, then it's good to
4:57
Speaker 6: collaborate and work with writers and work with your fellow
5:01
Speaker 6: collaborators in a way that fosters that spirit so that
5:06
Speaker 6: they're relaxed and they feel entitled in the work and excited.
5:11
Speaker 6: So yeah, I don't want to crush people's spirits, Dave,
5:18
Speaker 6: crush their dreams.
5:19
Speaker 7: You know.
5:19
Speaker 6: It's just like it stays with you for years, you know.
5:23
Speaker 6: I mean, it's like it's not a good look. So yeah,
5:27
Speaker 6: so I think it's just I think all anybody who
5:29
Speaker 6: likes to teach and has been teaching a while kind
5:33
Speaker 6: of learns that it's a it's a much more effective
5:37
Speaker 6: way to help a student, and that's what you want
5:39
Speaker 6: to do when you're teaching.
5:42
Speaker 5: So you know, in your journey, Gordy, you know, through
5:45
Speaker 5: through going to all these different you know places like
5:48
Speaker 5: you know, like Sundance and going on to you know,
5:51
Speaker 5: doing these webinars, and I mean, I'm sure you've met
5:53
Speaker 5: a ton of ton of people, you.
5:54
Speaker 3: Know, and and so you know, having done all that,
5:57
Speaker 3: have you met.
5:57
Speaker 5: Screenwrinning teachers who are who are like that, who just
6:01
Speaker 5: give like these very like paint like these notes that
6:04
Speaker 5: are just like directed to the point and very maybe even.
6:08
Speaker 7: Yeah, I've for yeah, I've heard.
6:10
Speaker 6: Of students going coming back and being like, uh, you know,
6:15
Speaker 6: like they're saying, you know, and I think some people
6:17
Speaker 6: just feel like that's I mean some people think that
6:19
Speaker 6: that and you know if and I think some people
6:22
Speaker 6: maybe like that, I don't know, they like they oh,
6:24
Speaker 6: I need to be I need someone to be tough
6:27
Speaker 6: on me, you know, And I guess that. But I've
6:30
Speaker 6: had a lot of good writers, talented people, people that
6:34
Speaker 6: are back have pretty good backbones. You know, people just fold,
6:39
Speaker 6: you know when they do that. But yeah, absolutely there's
6:41
Speaker 6: people that because it's you know what, it's easier to yell,
6:46
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's easier to just freak out on people,
6:49
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, the work of being like
6:52
Speaker 6: a teacher and the work of giving somebody effective notes
6:57
Speaker 6: that's struggling in this Wither story. The work of being
7:00
Speaker 6: a respected director and effective director is is is being
7:05
Speaker 6: is kind of being able to react with grace and
7:07
Speaker 6: be able to be respectful. It's so easy to be
7:12
Speaker 6: a jerk, you know, I mean to just be like,
7:14
Speaker 6: why what were you think? You know, like whatever it is?
7:17
Speaker 6: And but you know the thing is, I'm a writer,
7:20
Speaker 6: you know, and I'm and I'm a filmmaker myself. And
7:22
Speaker 6: I think that's that's why Bluecat, I think is flourished
7:27
Speaker 6: the way it hasn't grown the way it has and
7:31
Speaker 6: and I think that's what makes me an effective teacher
7:33
Speaker 6: as well, because I'm like, would I want to hear this?
7:36
Speaker 6: How would I want to hear notes? How would I
7:38
Speaker 6: want to hear this?
7:39
Speaker 8: Uh?
7:39
Speaker 6: Like what would I What do I think would be fair?
7:43
Speaker 6: And you know that having that perspective really helps. And
7:47
Speaker 6: I think some maybe some teachers aren't we're never really
7:51
Speaker 6: writers or they haven't been writing for a long time,
7:54
Speaker 6: and they maybe it helps them so, but most teachers,
7:58
Speaker 6: you know, I think a lot of really a to teachers,
8:02
Speaker 6: you know, approach it with a pretty even keel. I
8:05
Speaker 6: don't think you really hear a bunch of you know
8:07
Speaker 6: here too much about lunatic people. And I just don't
8:11
Speaker 6: think that. I don't think that screamer is really I mean,
8:16
Speaker 6: writing is such a personal action. You know, it's a
8:20
Speaker 6: very vulnerable thing all creative artistic pursuits. You know, it's
8:26
Speaker 6: like you're really opening yourself up. You know, your instrument
8:30
Speaker 6: is your personal life. And you know it can get
8:33
Speaker 6: a little hairy when somebody's coming after the writing, because
8:36
Speaker 6: it feels like they're coming after you. So yes, and
8:39
Speaker 6: you only know that. I think if you experience the
8:43
Speaker 6: process of writing yourself and you know how personal it is,
8:45
Speaker 6: so yeah.
8:47
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know that's the thing. You know, how do
8:50
Speaker 5: you differentiate between the writing and yourself? You know, you
8:53
Speaker 5: hit the nail on the head right there, because you know,
8:55
Speaker 5: it's kind of like if you write a screenplay or
8:58
Speaker 5: a short story and you turn it in and the
9:00
Speaker 5: and the judges or the script consultant or whoever, or
9:04
Speaker 5: you know, the writer's group doesn't like it, and so
9:07
Speaker 5: you I mean, you feel like I've been there before.
9:09
Speaker 5: I feel like it's an assault on me, you know,
9:11
Speaker 5: and you're like, how dare you?
9:13
Speaker 3: You know, and then you.
9:14
Speaker 6: Start yeah, and that's and that's that's a good it's
9:18
Speaker 6: a good professional. It's good exercising professionalism to be like,
9:22
Speaker 6: you know, this is not about you. And sometimes things
9:26
Speaker 6: are very personal, and you know, it feels like oh god,
9:29
Speaker 6: you know, and somebody's like, I think that character is
9:32
Speaker 6: a certain way and you thought differently, and that might
9:35
Speaker 6: reflect on your values.
9:38
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
9:44
Speaker 2: and now back to the show, and.
9:47
Speaker 6: I might reflect on your ethical uh you know core,
9:52
Speaker 6: you know, and and that can it starts to feel
9:54
Speaker 6: like you're kind of getting It's kind of like, oh,
9:57
Speaker 6: you know, you you think I'm a creep or you
9:59
Speaker 6: think I'm in you think I'm like, you know whatever,
10:02
Speaker 6: or you think I condone this or you know whatever.
10:05
Speaker 6: And the professionals, I think, you know, you think it's good.
10:10
Speaker 6: We all fall into that, and I think it's always
10:12
Speaker 6: good for me to remember that.
10:15
Speaker 7: You know.
10:15
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, this is a story. You know,
10:19
Speaker 6: you're creating something. You're gonna create more. You know, you're
10:21
Speaker 6: gonna have a body of work it's not you, it's
10:24
Speaker 6: not your life, it's you know, and everything is so
10:27
Speaker 6: personal the reactions from people. I mean, people are so
10:30
Speaker 6: spot get so wound up with feedback sometimes and it's like,
10:35
Speaker 6: haven't you ever gone to a movie with like people
10:37
Speaker 6: that you love, like your family or your best friends
10:40
Speaker 6: or your spouses or your partners or whoever, And you
10:44
Speaker 6: walk out and one person goes, I hated that, and
10:47
Speaker 6: the other person goes, god, I loved it, you know,
10:50
Speaker 6: and and no one goes, oh my god, we need
10:52
Speaker 6: to move out, you know, or you know, there's no
10:55
Speaker 6: there's no big fallout. You know, it's sort of like, okay, yeah,
10:59
Speaker 6: you like Star Wars, I didn't, you know, or whatever,
11:02
Speaker 6: and and you like Shape of Water and I didn't.
11:05
Speaker 6: There's something and and that's it. Then you just go
11:07
Speaker 6: home and get dinner and you know, just kind of
11:09
Speaker 6: go on. But like when people have a reader or
11:13
Speaker 6: a writer's group, or a manager pass or a producer
11:18
Speaker 6: never get back to you, it's like and it's like, oh,
11:21
Speaker 6: you know, it's so devastating. It's like, you know, they're
11:24
Speaker 6: just people and it's just another reaction. And sometimes you
11:28
Speaker 6: might have expectations about you know, wanting a reaction from
11:32
Speaker 6: like say, a contest, or from a producer or from
11:35
Speaker 6: a colleague. You want that reaction to be you know,
11:38
Speaker 6: the look. You know, you have expectations, but that's that's
11:41
Speaker 6: also something that we, you know, as professionals, we want
11:44
Speaker 6: to keep developing, you know, a healthy sense of expectations
11:48
Speaker 6: and keep things in check and know that it's at
11:50
Speaker 6: the end of the world if something doesn't because you can.
11:53
Speaker 7: As a writer.
11:54
Speaker 6: Writers always you know, there's always another movie, there's always.
11:58
Speaker 7: Another great idea.
12:00
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm you know, I get so worked up
12:03
Speaker 6: and then you know, and then you know, I come
12:06
Speaker 6: across another thing it's so incredible, and I go and
12:09
Speaker 6: I'm so excited about the idea of writing it, and
12:12
Speaker 6: I go, you know, and it makes you free of
12:14
Speaker 6: everything else, you know, so lower your expectations and realize
12:18
Speaker 6: everything is you know, everything's coming from a personal their
12:23
Speaker 6: own personal place, and just remember that. You know how
12:27
Speaker 6: many times you've gone to the theater and walked out
12:29
Speaker 6: with divided reactions and it's so perplexing sometimes, you know, like,
12:34
Speaker 6: what do you mean you didn't like that, you know,
12:36
Speaker 6: and it's like, no, I didn't, And it's like okay,
12:39
Speaker 6: you know, and and it's just that's what makes everything
12:42
Speaker 6: kind of fun, you know, that's what makes the storytelling,
12:45
Speaker 6: you know interesting.
12:46
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, you know, it reminds me that episode
12:49
Speaker 5: of Seinfeld where where mister Peterman he didn't like he said,
12:54
Speaker 5: he went he took English Elaine to see the English patient.
12:57
Speaker 3: And she hated it and she fired.
13:02
Speaker 5: It's so funny because you know, not only does that
13:05
Speaker 5: speak of character within Seinfeld, but it's also I mean,
13:08
Speaker 5: you know, that's comedy because it's the ordinary that's brought
13:11
Speaker 5: up to the extraordinary. Because it's so ludicrous that that
13:15
Speaker 5: a boss you would find an employee because she didn't
13:17
Speaker 5: like what movie.
13:18
Speaker 7: Is right and that.
13:20
Speaker 6: But that's how passionate we are.
13:21
Speaker 7: That's how emotional we are.
13:22
Speaker 6: About our decisions and our reactions. But as a writer,
13:26
Speaker 6: you know, it's it's like, yeah, and a lot of
13:28
Speaker 6: people get get really hung up on you know, and
13:32
Speaker 6: and you know, Bluect gives out feedback, and you know,
13:35
Speaker 6: and there's there's gonna always be somebody who's gonna be
13:38
Speaker 6: like this person, you know, didn't you know.
13:41
Speaker 7: I'm like, well, you know, that's what it's gonna happen.
13:45
Speaker 6: You know, it's not a perfect process. You know, it's
13:47
Speaker 6: not math. It's not two plus two equals for and
13:50
Speaker 6: it's just not.
13:51
Speaker 7: I'm not doing that and not when.
13:53
Speaker 6: Like some people watch Call Me by your Name and
13:55
Speaker 6: have one reaction, and other people. I talked to a
13:58
Speaker 6: guy last night who walked down you know, you just
14:00
Speaker 6: thought it was too slow, and other people think it's
14:03
Speaker 6: a masterpiece. You know, so and both of everybody's right.
14:07
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, love Wise, it was a movie
14:09
Speaker 6: I wrote, It came out a long time ago. It
14:10
Speaker 6: was reviewed and that you know, and people some are
14:14
Speaker 6: you know, it came out in theater, so it was
14:16
Speaker 6: reviewed by the press, and and you know, I realized
14:19
Speaker 6: then it was like the people that just thought it
14:21
Speaker 6: wasn't even worthy of a short, they just thought it
14:23
Speaker 6: was crap. You know, I'd be like, oh my god,
14:26
Speaker 6: you know, and then and then but then the people were.
14:28
Speaker 7: Like, oh, this is like a this is this is genius.
14:31
Speaker 6: And I realized it's like they're both sort of wrong
14:34
Speaker 6: and right, you know what I mean, like I can't
14:36
Speaker 6: go to the genius people. People that think it was
14:38
Speaker 6: a masking role, Well, you're right, that's a good few,
14:40
Speaker 6: you know what you're talking about the person who didn't
14:43
Speaker 6: like it. It's like, no, they're both right, you know,
14:45
Speaker 6: they're both like somebody likes something really like, oh my god,
14:48
Speaker 6: this is incredible. They're as crazy as the person that
14:52
Speaker 6: says something's horrible, you know what I mean, they're just
14:54
Speaker 6: it's just it's you know, it's all emotional response and
14:57
Speaker 6: personal history, and you know it's it's but I mean,
15:01
Speaker 6: I hope, you know, if anything, it's like I always
15:04
Speaker 6: I'm glad I think when people, when writers can like
15:08
Speaker 6: really look past that, because it really frees you up.
15:10
Speaker 6: You know, you realize it's like it keeps you going,
15:13
Speaker 6: and I think it gets you back to focusing on
15:15
Speaker 6: developing a better story instead of just focusing on reactions
15:19
Speaker 6: and all that stuff.
15:20
Speaker 5: So yeah, and you hit the nail on the head too,
15:23
Speaker 5: Gordy when you said about you know, this whole idea
15:27
Speaker 5: of story, because I think too many times when when
15:30
Speaker 5: you I mean, there's ten thousand screw running books out there,
15:34
Speaker 5: and the problem is you start to read some of
15:35
Speaker 5: these and it's all about a formula, you know what
15:37
Speaker 5: I mean. It's it's the precise you know, and it
15:40
Speaker 5: is like you said, it's not math, but some of
15:42
Speaker 5: those books though, they treat it as such, where it's
15:45
Speaker 5: like on page this, on page that this has to
15:48
Speaker 5: happen and blah blah blah blah, and then you start
15:50
Speaker 5: to get just lost in this. And that's why I think,
15:52
Speaker 5: I mean, you must see a lot where you're kind
15:55
Speaker 5: of like, this feels like they're not really writing a story,
15:58
Speaker 5: but they're trying to solve like a like a math problem.
16:03
Speaker 6: Absolutely, I mean, you know, there was a really there
16:06
Speaker 6: was a period of time where people were Staved the
16:09
Speaker 6: Cat was sort of you know, I mean with all
16:13
Speaker 6: credits to Save the Cat and and the and the
16:16
Speaker 6: principles that the really healthy story principles that it so
16:20
Speaker 6: that it affirms and everything, and it was a period
16:22
Speaker 6: where it was like you know, maybe ten years ago
16:24
Speaker 6: where it was like everybody was like, you know, really
16:27
Speaker 6: ablaze with that, and people were using it left and right,
16:29
Speaker 6: and and scripts some of the scripts were just ain't
16:32
Speaker 6: coherent because they were just they weren't even they had
16:35
Speaker 6: lost offense. They weren't even connected to their own story
16:39
Speaker 6: intuitive sort of compass inside, and so they were like, well,
16:44
Speaker 6: this is what the character is supposed to do on
16:45
Speaker 6: this page, and it was like with them, when you'd
16:47
Speaker 6: read it, you'd be like, I don't even know what's
16:48
Speaker 6: going on, you know, and and and you and the
16:51
Speaker 6: emotional thing wasn't happening and everything else. So yeah, you know,
16:55
Speaker 6: you kind of look for you can. You know, the
16:57
Speaker 6: books are great, and if you get stuff that inspires
17:01
Speaker 6: you incredible, If you get something that makes sense, it's great.
17:04
Speaker 6: A teacher, an analyst, a consultant. You know. It could
17:09
Speaker 6: be the guy, some guy you meet at Starbucks who says, oh,
17:11
Speaker 6: I want to read your scripted some the barista, you know,
17:14
Speaker 6: anybody wants to you know, I'll read it, you know,
17:17
Speaker 6: and then they go, I just didn't think.
17:19
Speaker 8: I mean, I've gotten.
17:20
Speaker 6: Notes from everywhere, you know what I mean, and it
17:22
Speaker 6: just doesn't there's no there's no bad source of notes.
17:27
Speaker 6: It's just the ones that actually help you move forward
17:30
Speaker 6: and know that. But yeah, you have to strike a
17:32
Speaker 6: balance between what the what formula is.
17:36
Speaker 7: What kind of this is?
17:38
Speaker 6: What this is the third act that you know, whatever,
17:41
Speaker 6: and knowing that the only rule of storytelling is emotional
17:46
Speaker 6: investment and getting an audience to care. I mean, you know,
17:51
Speaker 6: I mean, good example, call me by your name I mean,
17:53
Speaker 6: I don't know what formula that followed or were like
17:58
Speaker 6: act structure or anything like that.
18:00
Speaker 7: I don't know.
18:00
Speaker 6: I don't know where a Phansom thread. You know, you
18:04
Speaker 6: can't I don't.
18:04
Speaker 7: Know what I mean.
18:06
Speaker 6: I mean, I'd have to probably watch it again or
18:08
Speaker 6: a couple more times to see. But I'm sure that
18:10
Speaker 6: Paul Thomas Anderson did not, you know, was not even
18:13
Speaker 6: thinking about that. He was just telling an emotional story,
18:17
Speaker 6: creating characters that he thought an audience would be interested
18:21
Speaker 6: in and invested in emotionally.
18:24
Speaker 8: And that is what.
18:25
Speaker 6: Drives That's what drives affected storytelling. That's what that's what
18:30
Speaker 6: drives classic movies making, and that's what that's what drives
18:35
Speaker 6: profit in the marketplace is emotion. I mean, wonder Woman
18:39
Speaker 6: was wonder Woman because people loved wonder Woman and they
18:43
Speaker 6: were so gratified by her performance. Who she was, We
18:47
Speaker 6: were able to connect with her. It was like, oh,
18:50
Speaker 6: you know, and it's you know, and so this this happens.
18:53
Speaker 6: Whereas like you know the thing with Star Wars, it's
18:56
Speaker 6: like there was some mixed reactions out there we can
18:59
Speaker 6: all kind of safely say, and some people were like,
19:03
Speaker 6: I am not and basically boiled down to I am
19:06
Speaker 6: not feeling Luke Skywalker.
19:08
Speaker 7: I do not.
19:09
Speaker 6: I'm like I've lost my connection with Luke Skywalker.
19:13
Speaker 8: That's really what happened.
19:14
Speaker 6: It's like, it's like they did something else with Luke
19:17
Speaker 6: and made some choices about the story, and that's what happened.
19:23
Speaker 6: You can't I don't think anyone can deny that there
19:26
Speaker 6: was an emotional breakdown with some of the audience because
19:30
Speaker 6: of who they knew Luke Skywalker should be. So anyway,
19:34
Speaker 6: so it's all emotional investment. And so as long as
19:36
Speaker 6: we can remember that when we're when we're writing.
19:41
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
19:47
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
19:51
Speaker 6: I mean, just just you know, make a balance between
19:54
Speaker 6: you can read stuff inspired, get you thinking about things,
19:57
Speaker 6: get you thinking about conflict and tall and and things
20:01
Speaker 6: like this. You know, get it's good to think about
20:04
Speaker 6: these things and study them and look at other movies
20:06
Speaker 6: and how.
20:07
Speaker 7: They function everything else.
20:08
Speaker 6: But don't forget that eight year old child that knew
20:10
Speaker 6: how to tell.
20:11
Speaker 7: A story, you know what I mean? You can you can.
20:13
Speaker 7: You can go to a ten.
20:15
Speaker 6: Year old and go what happened after school today, and
20:18
Speaker 6: they'll tell you a story, They'll know what.
20:20
Speaker 7: A beginning, the middle, and end is.
20:21
Speaker 6: They know what the inciting incident is, they know what
20:23
Speaker 6: the payoff is, they know what the ending is, you know,
20:26
Speaker 6: and they they know.
20:28
Speaker 7: What that is.
20:28
Speaker 6: It's in their bloodstream, it's in their DNA. And so
20:32
Speaker 6: we got we we want to strike a balance between
20:34
Speaker 6: what we learn and what we already know, you know.
20:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and uh, somebody once told me about
20:41
Speaker 5: kids storytellers that one of the main reason that they're
20:45
Speaker 5: they actually become such good storytellers is is because they
20:48
Speaker 5: they're not afraid to fail, and they're you know, they're
20:50
Speaker 5: not really concerned about that, and they just sort of
20:53
Speaker 5: they just go in full force of that story. And
20:56
Speaker 5: it's not until you start, you know, going through you know,
20:58
Speaker 5: your your young adult life for what have you you
21:01
Speaker 5: start to go, oh my god, the pure pressure, Oh
21:03
Speaker 5: my god, what if I look, don't you know, what
21:04
Speaker 5: if so many things I'm an idiot, What if this
21:06
Speaker 5: isn't good?
21:07
Speaker 3: I sucked? And if this sucks you know what I mean?
21:10
Speaker 6: Right right there is definitely definitely an open, open feeling
21:15
Speaker 6: about what they're doing and everything else.
21:17
Speaker 7: Absolutely so.
21:19
Speaker 3: And by the way, I know, you mentioned Paul Thomas Anderson.
21:22
Speaker 5: You know, I actually saw your am a on on
21:25
Speaker 5: Reddit Gordy and I last when you when somebody asked,
21:29
Speaker 5: are you the Gordy that that Paul Thomas Anderson thanked
21:32
Speaker 5: at the end of The Master, and you just responded
21:34
Speaker 5: back with the the Heisenberg meme of your damn right.
21:40
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it's funny. As I was, I remember that,
21:44
Speaker 6: I think I was. I had an intern in the
21:46
Speaker 6: office and he was like, no, no, let me get
21:48
Speaker 6: this any and I was like, okay, just put it
21:51
Speaker 6: up there, you know.
21:52
Speaker 7: He was he thought that was.
21:53
Speaker 6: Funny, or if somebody was somebody in our office was like, yeah,
21:56
Speaker 6: he kind of grabbed that meme and put that up there.
21:59
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was. I was.
22:00
Speaker 6: I looked at the Master a little bit along the
22:03
Speaker 6: way the script, and and you know, I'm obviously you know,
22:08
Speaker 6: Paul was very close to my brother, and they were
22:11
Speaker 6: like best friends and like literally brothers in their own right,
22:15
Speaker 6: you know. And and so we're very been very close
22:17
Speaker 6: to Paul for for twenty oh you know, over twenty years.
22:22
Speaker 6: I mean, I you know, I mean I saw you know,
22:24
Speaker 6: the Boogie Knights. I mean, my brother was telling me
22:27
Speaker 6: about Boogie I gave. I gave my brother love Lies
22:30
Speaker 6: than the Fall of ninety six, And that was when
22:33
Speaker 6: he was shooting Boogie Knights and he was telling me
22:36
Speaker 6: about this movie that he.
22:37
Speaker 7: Was making about the peign industry. You know.
22:40
Speaker 6: So it's no, Paul, He's amazing. He's he really is
22:45
Speaker 6: our best. He's really the best we have, you know,
22:47
Speaker 6: in America. I mean he's just he's like a Kubrick
22:51
Speaker 6: level genius. And he's gonna be I mean, the best
22:55
Speaker 6: is you have to come. I mean, he's gonna.
22:56
Speaker 7: Phantom Thread totally.
23:00
Speaker 6: That you know, he's going to different play he's gonna be,
23:03
Speaker 6: he's gonna everything is gonna he's gonna make so many
23:05
Speaker 6: great movies and then you know, on the second half.
23:08
Speaker 7: Of his life.
23:09
Speaker 6: It's really exciting. But yeah, I'm very honored. And he's
23:12
Speaker 6: always been very such a such a humble he's always
23:17
Speaker 6: very respectful of me, and you know, he's always been
23:20
Speaker 6: respectful of me, and he always he likes my judgment.
23:23
Speaker 6: And he's just a great guy, you know. I mean,
23:26
Speaker 6: he's a wonderful man too, is a good guy.
23:28
Speaker 5: So, you know, as we were talking about, you know,
23:30
Speaker 5: directors and giving notes and stuff like that. So you know,
23:34
Speaker 5: in your experiences and working with him, you know, does
23:37
Speaker 5: he sort of have that sort of same mentality where
23:40
Speaker 5: you know, it's it's not so much of hey listen
23:43
Speaker 5: to me because I'm the director, but it's more of
23:45
Speaker 5: like he knows how to collaborate, you know, the right way,
23:49
Speaker 5: because I've had people on here who've worked with like
23:51
Speaker 5: Quentin Tarantino, and that's one of the things I say
23:53
Speaker 5: was his strengths was was that you know, he would
23:55
Speaker 5: get into this groove and they always knew when he
23:57
Speaker 5: likes stuff because he would start, you know, laughing and
23:58
Speaker 5: stuff like that, and and and.
24:00
Speaker 3: You know, they knew his vibe.
24:03
Speaker 6: Thomas, I'm not been on the set with Paul, so
24:06
Speaker 6: I can't really speak to him as a director and
24:09
Speaker 6: like what that is. But I mean, you know, so
24:12
Speaker 6: I just all I can say is from my vantage point,
24:15
Speaker 6: you know, he obviously knows how to cast. He knows
24:18
Speaker 6: how to direct an ensemble of actors and and bring
24:21
Speaker 6: them together in the scene. You know, he's very, very gifted.
24:25
Speaker 6: I mean, it's he does so many things well. People
24:30
Speaker 6: just don't understand that he you know, he's writing on
24:34
Speaker 6: a certain level that is highly original and authentic, emotionally authentic,
24:40
Speaker 6: and he delivers high conflict. He never he doesn't run
24:44
Speaker 6: from emotional emotional beats and and high highly intense emotional situations.
24:53
Speaker 6: You know, he knows how to cast. He has an
24:55
Speaker 6: incredible he has a Shakespearean sense of comedy and how
25:00
Speaker 6: he balanced his comedy in his stories. So, I mean,
25:03
Speaker 6: you know, you're a limited I mean, just in what
25:06
Speaker 6: I just said, you're eliminating like several major directors that
25:12
Speaker 6: are in this country, around the world that can't do
25:15
Speaker 6: all of those things. They do not do all of
25:17
Speaker 6: those things.
25:18
Speaker 7: They can't they can't do all that.
25:20
Speaker 6: And you go on, you're not even talking about, you know,
25:23
Speaker 6: where he puts the camera, You're not even you're not
25:26
Speaker 6: even talking about how he employs score and sound. I mean,
25:30
Speaker 6: it's it's it's it's off the charge. So it's like
25:33
Speaker 6: he has so much of that cupboard. He's literally like
25:38
Speaker 6: I mean to me, I mean, I I you know,
25:40
Speaker 6: obviously you know I'm biased, you know whatever, But the
25:44
Speaker 6: fact is is that it's like, I mean, not anyone
25:47
Speaker 6: who knows anything I think probably would agree with me.
25:49
Speaker 6: But he is one of our He is he is
25:52
Speaker 6: the master. I mean, he is one of the greats,
25:55
Speaker 6: you know. And by the time it's all done, I
25:57
Speaker 6: mean he's because he's gonna keep going. He a young
26:00
Speaker 6: man and he's going to keep going, and he's he's
26:03
Speaker 6: got all his faculties. And Phantom Threat was such a
26:07
Speaker 6: such a step forward I thought in so many you know,
26:10
Speaker 6: it was such a mature there was something so mach
26:13
Speaker 6: sure about the movie. And it was a real, real achievement.
26:16
Speaker 6: And you know, and obviously the Academy, you know, agrees
26:19
Speaker 6: because they they not only nominated the movie Best Picture,
26:23
Speaker 6: but also nominated him for directing and and I think that.
26:27
Speaker 7: That was well deserved. They know it, they know that
26:30
Speaker 7: it was. It was.
26:31
Speaker 6: It was truly, it was truly an achievement and really
26:35
Speaker 6: really wonderful to see.
26:36
Speaker 5: So, you know, Gordy, that's that's actually one of the
26:40
Speaker 5: movies I want to see this year. I haven't actually
26:43
Speaker 5: been you know, either it wasn't playing at the time
26:46
Speaker 5: I went, or I haven't been able to sort of
26:49
Speaker 5: schedule time to go see.
26:50
Speaker 7: It just came out, I mean it just came out.
26:52
Speaker 6: I mean it just came out, Like I mean, in
26:55
Speaker 6: La It's been out since the end of the year
26:58
Speaker 6: end of twenty seventeen, but it just was released I
27:01
Speaker 6: think last weekend a lot of places, so a lot
27:04
Speaker 6: of people have not caught up to that one yet,
27:06
Speaker 6: so you know, but so yeah, so but everyone will
27:09
Speaker 6: get a chance to take it in. But I encourage
27:12
Speaker 6: every all writers to to look at that, you know,
27:16
Speaker 6: to to go to go to that movie and and
27:19
Speaker 6: think about what what is successful and what is what
27:23
Speaker 6: is effective about the story telling in the movie, and
27:27
Speaker 6: and and take it in and I think you'll you know,
27:29
Speaker 6: it's a good it's a really great movie for screenwriters.
27:33
Speaker 6: You know.
27:33
Speaker 5: That was my mistake, which I actually thought it came
27:35
Speaker 5: out like the end of November beginning December last year,
27:39
Speaker 5: so but.
27:39
Speaker 7: But no, it didn't. Yeah no, I.
27:41
Speaker 5: Was just gonna say, I I I sometimes I get
27:43
Speaker 5: like released, it's all mixed up, you know, and.
27:46
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, but but you know, you made a
27:48
Speaker 3: good point.
27:48
Speaker 5: I want to I want to actually ask about it
27:50
Speaker 5: is you know, when you're a screenwriter, you know some
27:54
Speaker 5: of the you know, the the ideas of of becoming
27:57
Speaker 5: a better screenwriter or you know, you have you have
27:58
Speaker 5: to realize screenplay and obviously you have to go to
28:01
Speaker 5: different movies. Do you feel that there's ever like an
28:05
Speaker 5: advantage of one or the other, Because I one time
28:08
Speaker 5: went to a screamwriting seminar and the person said, you
28:10
Speaker 5: can't judge a You can't watch a movie and try
28:13
Speaker 5: to dissect it that way because you don't know what
28:17
Speaker 5: the script even look like. You know, they actors could
28:19
Speaker 5: be improvising. You know, this scene could blah blah blah,
28:22
Speaker 5: and and I wanted.
28:23
Speaker 3: To ask, you know, what do you think of that advice?
28:28
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, the fact is is that you know
28:31
Speaker 6: that sounds I mean, that sounds like, uh, a fairly
28:38
Speaker 6: reasonable point. But the fact is a screenplay is is,
28:43
Speaker 6: it's it's part of making the film. And I think
28:46
Speaker 6: that ultimately, because there's a lot of scripts that you know,
28:50
Speaker 6: so you're so you can't judge the script. Well, if
28:53
Speaker 6: the script, you know, it doesn't matter in the end.
28:56
Speaker 6: We need our audience. We're not writing scripts, you know,
28:59
Speaker 6: We're right, we're trying to make a movie, you know.
29:01
Speaker 6: So yeah, So I mean I think ultimately it's it's yeah,
29:07
Speaker 6: that sounds like, okay, well you can't judge the movie
29:10
Speaker 6: based off of this stuff. Are you saying you can't
29:13
Speaker 6: judge the screenplay based off of the movie that we've
29:15
Speaker 6: just seen.
29:16
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what they were saying, was because Okay.
29:20
Speaker 6: I think generally, I think generally, I mean, I think
29:22
Speaker 6: I'm sure there's exceptions where people, you know, drop the
29:26
Speaker 6: ball or the money doesn't happen, or there's bad performances
29:30
Speaker 6: or you know whatever. There's probably a number of reasons,
29:34
Speaker 6: but I think it's generally.
29:37
Speaker 2: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
29:43
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
29:46
Speaker 6: You know, strong writing, you know, tends to reflect in
29:52
Speaker 6: a strong movie. It's it's very difficult to make a
29:54
Speaker 6: great movie from a mediocre script. It's just, you know,
29:58
Speaker 6: it's just difficult. They are very much correlated. I don't
30:03
Speaker 6: think there's a lot of variance there.
30:05
Speaker 7: And yeah, so an interesting question though I've never heard that.
30:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why I always like going and and and
30:14
Speaker 5: you know, just interviewing people like you, Gorty just this,
30:17
Speaker 5: you know, people out there in the field, and and
30:19
Speaker 5: you know, that's why I want to do this podcast
30:20
Speaker 5: because they get to hear all these different different takes
30:22
Speaker 5: on different things, you know what I mean, And you
30:24
Speaker 5: get to share knowledge because I think that's what technology
30:26
Speaker 5: has done. I mean honestly, you know, once I started,
30:29
Speaker 5: it's it's kind of I kind of had my Aha moment,
30:31
Speaker 5: you know, with all this technology and the way media
30:34
Speaker 5: is the way it is now, you know, that's that's
30:36
Speaker 5: what it is. It's it's sharing knowledge and communicating with
30:38
Speaker 5: each other just a lot faster and on a much
30:42
Speaker 5: Now it's on a global scale, because I don't know
30:44
Speaker 5: if there's anybody on this planet anymore that you can't
30:46
Speaker 5: talk to if you want to, right, But uh, but yeah,
30:51
Speaker 5: and of course we've seen with movies you know now
30:53
Speaker 5: it's you know, you know you can put them on Netflix, Hulu,
30:55
Speaker 5: all that good stuff, and then you can you know.
30:57
Speaker 3: That show is distribution.
30:59
Speaker 5: But I wanted to get back to to you, Gordy,
31:02
Speaker 5: just talking about you know, your career and everything. You know,
31:04
Speaker 5: you've actually, you know, directed a few movies, You've written
31:07
Speaker 5: a few movies, so I just actually wanted to ask
31:09
Speaker 5: you about some of those and some of your experiences
31:11
Speaker 5: actually making those.
31:13
Speaker 3: So you know, your your first.
31:14
Speaker 5: Movie, as you as you mentioned earlier, was Love Liza,
31:17
Speaker 5: So you know, I wanted to ask, you know, where
31:18
Speaker 5: where was the impetus for writing that screenplay, and how
31:21
Speaker 5: did you go about being able to direct that movie.
31:26
Speaker 7: I didn't direct it.
31:27
Speaker 8: Todd So directed it.
31:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, I wrote it and I was I was a
31:32
Speaker 6: cab driver in Chicago and I saw somebody near a
31:36
Speaker 6: gas pump and I was like, I was like, is
31:39
Speaker 6: that person sniffing the gas? And I didn't really see
31:42
Speaker 6: them sniffing it, but I was like, and I was
31:45
Speaker 6: in my cab and I wrote that down an index card.
31:48
Speaker 6: I used to have all these blank index cards with me.
31:50
Speaker 6: I wonder where those are.
31:52
Speaker 7: I like, I wish I could find them. I wonder
31:54
Speaker 7: where they ended up.
31:55
Speaker 6: But I you know, I had like, yeah, I got like,
31:58
Speaker 6: uh to find some stuff. Anyways, Yeah, I wrote down
32:02
Speaker 6: a man starts toffing gas and and you know, and
32:06
Speaker 6: then that was the germ of it where I was like, well,
32:08
Speaker 6: why would he start doing that? It's just like, well,
32:10
Speaker 6: what if his wife committed suicide? And then I started
32:14
Speaker 6: to write that. And then he finds a note and
32:17
Speaker 6: I found that I didn't plan on that.
32:19
Speaker 8: He finds the note and the note ended.
32:20
Speaker 7: Up driving the movie.
32:22
Speaker 6: But that's where love Wisa came from.
32:25
Speaker 5: So you know, sometimes when I find pieces of material
32:28
Speaker 5: that I've like written on an index card or back
32:30
Speaker 5: of her receipt or something. I'll look at it, Gordy,
32:33
Speaker 5: and I go, what the hell was I trying to say?
32:36
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that doesn't happen to be too much anymore.
32:39
Speaker 6: But sometimes, yeah, I'm like I'll look back on something
32:42
Speaker 6: that I write down in a little idea file. Usually
32:44
Speaker 6: I write, I get the idea, and I put it
32:47
Speaker 6: on like a little document, and I just you know,
32:49
Speaker 6: I have so many of them, but I usually I
32:51
Speaker 6: know myself that I better explain it so that I
32:54
Speaker 6: can look back on it and know exactly what it is,
32:57
Speaker 6: because if I just write down macaroni and cheese, it's like,
33:00
Speaker 6: I'm like.
33:00
Speaker 8: What the oh was that idea? You know, you got
33:04
Speaker 8: to like looks like what was that?
33:06
Speaker 6: It's like so yeah, But I think we've all had
33:11
Speaker 6: that experience of looking back at something we jotted down
33:14
Speaker 6: and been like, Okay, I guess that one's gone.
33:18
Speaker 5: You know, I've gotten into the habit of using my
33:21
Speaker 5: phone now. I use I use like ever note to
33:24
Speaker 5: to take down all yeah, because it helps you organize things,
33:27
Speaker 5: and also you're not like counting around tons of sheets
33:30
Speaker 5: of paper.
33:32
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's that's electronic, you know. That's the technology.
33:37
Speaker 8: That we have now, is that.
33:38
Speaker 7: Yeah, you don't.
33:38
Speaker 8: Really have the next cards anymore.
33:40
Speaker 6: Just I just usually just write an email to myself,
33:43
Speaker 6: send it to myself, and then it ends up on
33:45
Speaker 6: my little movie folder idea lists for the year, and
33:50
Speaker 6: then uh and I'm backing it up every couple of
33:54
Speaker 6: days the whole computer, so I creak, sure I have everything.
33:58
Speaker 7: So that's all.
33:59
Speaker 6: It's all different from back in the day. It's twenty
34:02
Speaker 6: years ago when I came up with the idea for
34:04
Speaker 6: Love Lives.
34:04
Speaker 3: Of And I find it interesting too.
34:07
Speaker 5: Gordy, you were you were a cab driver in Chicago
34:10
Speaker 5: and you were just you know, I guess in between fares,
34:12
Speaker 5: you were just you know, on index cards. You were
34:14
Speaker 5: just sort of outlining or brainstorming ideas that you could
34:17
Speaker 5: put into a screenplay.
34:17
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
34:21
Speaker 6: I mean that's the thing. I mean, you know, it
34:23
Speaker 6: just that was what I was doing. And I you know,
34:25
Speaker 6: to this day, it's like you know, I mean, you know,
34:27
Speaker 6: it's like.
34:28
Speaker 7: Anywhere an idea will come up.
34:30
Speaker 6: But at that time, you know, that's what that's what
34:33
Speaker 6: my day job was. It was a whole nother experience.
34:36
Speaker 7: You know.
34:37
Speaker 6: And I drove a cab in Chicago for three and
34:39
Speaker 6: a half years, and and and that was yeah, I
34:43
Speaker 6: can still remember exactly the gas station that that happened, and.
34:47
Speaker 7: And it was just one of the random things.
34:49
Speaker 6: It was like, and and and I just decided to
34:52
Speaker 6: go with it. You know, it was an idea, and
34:55
Speaker 6: you know, I just remember that. It's like sometimes you
34:58
Speaker 6: sit there and go, Okay, what idea should I And
35:02
Speaker 6: you know, any idea that you pick, you're gonna make great, you.
35:06
Speaker 7: Know what I mean.
35:07
Speaker 6: So it's like it's like I'm like, don't be so
35:09
Speaker 6: worried about whether or not this is the right idea,
35:11
Speaker 6: because you're gonna work on it and it's gonna be awesome, you.
35:14
Speaker 5: Know what I mean.
35:15
Speaker 6: So you'll make everyone everything work. And so it's like
35:20
Speaker 6: it's such a and I forget that because I'll be like,
35:23
Speaker 6: you know, like I don't know. And it's like even
35:26
Speaker 6: because if I was forced to write my worst idea,
35:31
Speaker 6: I would I would make it.
35:32
Speaker 7: Great, you know what I mean. I would just be
35:34
Speaker 7: like the one.
35:35
Speaker 6: I'd be like, Okay, I got to write on that,
35:37
Speaker 6: and then I would lean into it and I would
35:39
Speaker 6: start to, you know, my imagination would kick in and
35:41
Speaker 6: I'd start to come up with ideas.
35:44
Speaker 7: You know.
35:44
Speaker 5: Stephen Pressfield once said that you could if you can
35:48
Speaker 5: get like a sentence out, you can draw a whole
35:51
Speaker 5: novel just from that one sentence. You can pull just
35:53
Speaker 5: from that one and and and he's, oh, go ahead, no, no, no,
36:00
Speaker 5: So I was just going to say that he actually
36:02
Speaker 5: wrote the legend of Backer Vance just from that one sentence.
36:05
Speaker 5: He had like this moment where he kind of jotted
36:07
Speaker 5: down the sentence and then he has pulled the whole
36:09
Speaker 5: novel from.
36:10
Speaker 6: That, right, I mean, you know, and that's it's you know,
36:14
Speaker 6: it's usually like one little idea, a few little words
36:17
Speaker 6: you jot down, and then it's like the idea is there,
36:20
Speaker 6: and and then you're off to the racist. And but
36:24
Speaker 6: you know, I've done that in classes too, where it's
36:26
Speaker 6: like I have people, you know, brainstorm like ten ideas
36:31
Speaker 6: for scenes.
36:32
Speaker 7: And then I asked them pick.
36:34
Speaker 6: The worst idea out of all the ones, and that's
36:38
Speaker 6: the one I have them write on. And to show
36:41
Speaker 6: them that basically any anything, you can make anything work.
36:45
Speaker 7: You know, you do not have to It does not
36:48
Speaker 7: have to.
36:49
Speaker 6: Be the best idea does not have to be I mean,
36:51
Speaker 6: that's really why Ford any kind of writing challenges, any
36:54
Speaker 6: kind of forty eight hour film. That's where that comes from.
36:57
Speaker 6: It's because it for it's people can give given restrictions,
37:03
Speaker 6: you know, they can still have fun and be creative
37:07
Speaker 6: and everything else.
37:09
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again it's I think it's just when you're
37:12
Speaker 5: having fun, because I think that I think that's a
37:14
Speaker 5: lot of things that people forget. But I mean, I've
37:16
Speaker 5: been there to Gordy where I'm like, you know, I
37:19
Speaker 5: completely forget this is supposed to be fun, and it
37:21
Speaker 5: becomes like so definitely serious, and you start kind of
37:24
Speaker 5: doubting yourself along the way, and then it becomes a
37:26
Speaker 5: little more, a little more, and then by the end
37:28
Speaker 5: you're like, this whole thing sucks. I gotta get rid
37:30
Speaker 5: of this whole screenplay. I gotta stro it all over again.
37:33
Speaker 5: And then you can, and it becomes a habit that
37:35
Speaker 5: you have that you have to break.
37:38
Speaker 6: Well every every screenplay.
37:40
Speaker 7: You know.
37:40
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, any kind of master screenwriter or
37:44
Speaker 6: filmmaker you know will tell you it's like anything you're
37:48
Speaker 6: working on, you're gonna get to a wall. You're gonna
37:51
Speaker 6: get to a place where you're like this is awful
37:53
Speaker 6: and I'm bored as hell and I want to start
37:55
Speaker 6: something else, and there's this has so many problems and
37:59
Speaker 6: I don't know how to solve them, and I'm and
38:00
Speaker 6: this is like taking forever, you know, I mean it's
38:04
Speaker 6: true despair and and the thing is now I know that,
38:07
Speaker 6: like when I get to that place, I'm like, okay,
38:09
Speaker 6: I'm making that way, Like I know, it's like, okay,
38:12
Speaker 6: I'm actually halfway through, you know, like because you are
38:15
Speaker 6: always going to hit that spot and it's like and
38:19
Speaker 6: you are, and you never get oh man, this is
38:21
Speaker 6: like a this is so awesome.
38:23
Speaker 7: You know.
38:23
Speaker 6: It's never like that. You always get to a place
38:26
Speaker 6: where like I'm I hate every page. I'm like all
38:29
Speaker 6: this stuff. I'm sick of reading this thing. I'm like,
38:31
Speaker 6: you have that feeling, and it's like in that and
38:34
Speaker 6: and when you have that feeling, it's like, oh, well,
38:37
Speaker 6: you're getting there, You're almost You're you're probably rounding second.
38:42
Speaker 6: Just keep going and then suddenly it will come back
38:44
Speaker 6: and you'll fall in love with it again and you'll
38:46
Speaker 6: come up with new ideas and your problem you're you know,
38:49
Speaker 6: solve these problems, and you'll have another draft and then
38:52
Speaker 6: you'll start and then you'll be like okay, and you'll
38:54
Speaker 6: own it all over again, and then you'll really have
38:56
Speaker 6: something special. But we have to fight through, you know,
39:00
Speaker 6: the boredom, the despair, you know, just just the loading
39:07
Speaker 6: of the script. You know, at times it comes up
39:09
Speaker 6: where you're just like, God, like, I'm so sick of
39:13
Speaker 6: looking at this and thinking about it. I think it
39:15
Speaker 6: sucks or whatever. And uh, you know you're like for drafts.
39:19
Speaker 5: In you know, yeah, yeah, just even in the outlining stages.
39:24
Speaker 5: You know, sometimes you're like, oh my god, what the hell?
39:27
Speaker 3: What the hell was I thinking?
39:28
Speaker 7: And uh, you know, yeah.
39:30
Speaker 5: One of the things that I've learned too over the
39:32
Speaker 5: years is just like little tips or so to speak,
39:35
Speaker 5: or if you want to call them a hack.
39:37
Speaker 3: Uh, you know that's a popular word now, Gordy hack.
39:41
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
39:47
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
39:50
Speaker 3: So so everything to hack.
39:52
Speaker 5: So one thing I've learned is, uh is if you
39:55
Speaker 5: to start an argument, you know, have one. You know,
39:58
Speaker 5: obviously that's where constantly comes from, right I want ah,
40:02
Speaker 5: you want a and uh, we each have a different
40:04
Speaker 5: way of how we're gonna get it or maybe you
40:06
Speaker 5: know what I mean, and thenach what we both need
40:08
Speaker 5: this thing. And that's where this conflict comes from, is
40:11
Speaker 5: that you know you want something and you can't get it.
40:14
Speaker 3: I want something I can't get it.
40:15
Speaker 5: So if you sort of you know, starting an argument
40:17
Speaker 5: and and that's why I make little notes where I'm
40:20
Speaker 5: going back through stuff and just saying myself, this is
40:24
Speaker 5: you know, maybe this is something that I can do better.
40:27
Speaker 5: And then you know, Stephen King once said, if you
40:29
Speaker 5: if you take a draft or something, put it in
40:30
Speaker 5: your drawer for two weeks or whatever, go back to
40:32
Speaker 5: it and that's when you can look at it again
40:34
Speaker 5: with fresh eyes.
40:36
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's great out time changes things and you can
40:40
Speaker 6: look at stuff and be like, oh yeah, you know,
40:43
Speaker 6: and you can definitely you know, there's.
40:45
Speaker 7: A lot of that stuff.
40:46
Speaker 6: But yeah, that's great advice.
40:50
Speaker 5: So you know, go toy As you took Love Liza
40:53
Speaker 5: and you're able to write a full screenplay. You know,
40:55
Speaker 5: how how did you go about you know, just sort
40:57
Speaker 5: of even pitching it and you know, getting it into
40:59
Speaker 5: the right hands to get it produced.
41:04
Speaker 7: Well, you know, it.
41:06
Speaker 6: Was a long process, but you know, my brother read
41:09
Speaker 6: it and like I said, he had not started shooting
41:13
Speaker 6: Boogie Nights yet, so he wasn't a movie star or
41:15
Speaker 6: anything like that. He just young and he read it
41:20
Speaker 6: and he loved it, you know, and I didn't wasn't
41:22
Speaker 6: giving it to him to be like, hey, you want
41:24
Speaker 6: to do this, but he wanted to play the guy
41:26
Speaker 6: and and that's.
41:29
Speaker 7: What it is.
41:29
Speaker 6: So we attached he was a task. We got a director,
41:32
Speaker 6: we got Todd Delizo, and then we started to a
41:36
Speaker 6: couple of producers.
41:37
Speaker 7: And then we.
41:38
Speaker 6: Started to talk to people that could add access to
41:42
Speaker 6: money and uh find you know, producers that you know,
41:45
Speaker 6: could raise raise actually the money to make the movie.
41:50
Speaker 6: And so it took a you know, it didn't take
41:53
Speaker 6: that on maybe four years from from like the whole
41:56
Speaker 6: period of like starting to think about it and people
42:00
Speaker 6: looking at it, you know, and then and then then
42:03
Speaker 6: we found them folks and and made it, you know,
42:09
Speaker 6: and got was able to get Kathy Bates involved, and
42:12
Speaker 6: and that was how we we got the money. Was
42:16
Speaker 6: very low budget at the time, and and then you know,
42:22
Speaker 6: it got into Sundance. You know, people responded at Sundance
42:26
Speaker 6: to it, and it got to Sundance and and then
42:30
Speaker 6: it was bought by Sony Classics and they distributed. So yeah,
42:39
Speaker 6: so that was that's sort of the journey. And I
42:41
Speaker 6: think it's I mean, somebody told me it's on HBO
42:43
Speaker 6: right now, so I think if you have HBO, you'll
42:46
Speaker 6: be able to watch it.
42:47
Speaker 7: And obviously it's.
42:48
Speaker 6: On Amazon for rental, but it's but Sony ended up
42:54
Speaker 6: Sony Classics. The same guys that were involved with Love
42:58
Speaker 6: Wise are you know, are still running Sony Classics, you know,
43:03
Speaker 6: and uh, call me by your name. It was a
43:05
Speaker 6: Sony Classics acquisition that they picked up before Sundance. And yeah,
43:12
Speaker 6: so you.
43:12
Speaker 5: Know, God, you mentioned Sundance and you mentioned uh, you know,
43:15
Speaker 5: call me by your name. And also, you know, with
43:18
Speaker 5: the love Liza. I saw an article and I don't
43:21
Speaker 5: know if you saw this yet in the La Times
43:23
Speaker 5: that says the uh, the Specs script is dead. And
43:27
Speaker 5: what they mean is is that Hollywood only wants to
43:29
Speaker 5: make the big budget blockbuster movies you know, based on
43:33
Speaker 5: you know, superheroes and and things like that, or or
43:36
Speaker 5: remakes of classic movies and stuff like that, you know,
43:39
Speaker 5: you know, and that the SPECS scripts now all good
43:41
Speaker 5: at Sundance. So if you want to make an original movie,
43:44
Speaker 5: you know, the place to debut it, to show it
43:46
Speaker 5: and get it bought, et cetera is Sundance. You know,
43:49
Speaker 5: I don't know if you've read that article, but but
43:51
Speaker 5: do you do you agree with that in today's current
43:54
Speaker 5: market for screenwriters that you know, Sundances is where you know,
43:58
Speaker 5: independent movies really get.
44:01
Speaker 7: Well.
44:02
Speaker 6: I mean, Sundance is an incredible market. I mean, you
44:06
Speaker 6: get into Sundance, I mean, all eyeballs are there for
44:09
Speaker 6: acquisitions and you can, you know, pick up a movie
44:13
Speaker 6: that can.
44:15
Speaker 7: Do considerable.
44:19
Speaker 6: Performance at the box office and also could win Academy Awards.
44:23
Speaker 6: So you know, obviously it's a it's a great.
44:25
Speaker 7: Launch pad now, you know. I mean, look, if you
44:30
Speaker 7: write a great screenplay, you.
44:32
Speaker 6: Know you're gonna be able to do a lot of things,
44:34
Speaker 6: you know, and that's never going to change the idea
44:37
Speaker 6: of Yeah, the what was happening in.
44:40
Speaker 7: The nineties, The market's changed.
44:43
Speaker 6: There's the you know how they but you know, but
44:48
Speaker 6: the nineties were also different from the forties, you.
44:51
Speaker 7: Know what I mean. So it's not like some you know,
44:54
Speaker 7: like some evil thing has happened. It's just the market changed.
44:58
Speaker 6: Storytellers can go different places, but you obviously can you know,
45:04
Speaker 6: if you write something special, you know, you might be
45:06
Speaker 6: able to get you know, involved in television and television
45:09
Speaker 6: episodic is obviously sort of that there's another golden age,
45:14
Speaker 6: uh right now in terms of you know, storytelling and television.
45:19
Speaker 6: But you know, but then you can also you know,
45:22
Speaker 6: write a get Out or write a Lady Bird. Obviously
45:26
Speaker 6: these people have access and everything, and there's certain you know,
45:30
Speaker 6: opportunities that might have been afforded Gretit Gerwig or whatever.
45:33
Speaker 6: But the fact is is that you know, three billboards,
45:37
Speaker 6: you know, these are all movies that are doing doing well.
45:41
Speaker 6: They're gonna do well. No one who is involved with
45:44
Speaker 6: making them is on is like wow, I wish.
45:46
Speaker 8: I hadn't have been involved to get Out.
45:48
Speaker 6: I mean it's like no way. And get Out was
45:50
Speaker 6: you know a low lower budget, did not have any
45:52
Speaker 6: kind of like Avengers type of budget, and it was.
45:56
Speaker 7: But it all goes back to the writing.
45:58
Speaker 6: You know, and you know, so just you know, people
46:03
Speaker 6: find you know, writers and people want to find like oh, well,
46:07
Speaker 6: speck market or you know, make some you know ideas
46:10
Speaker 6: about and the bottom line is it's ultimately an excuse
46:14
Speaker 6: not to deal, like to not to deal.
46:17
Speaker 7: With the truth.
46:18
Speaker 6: The truth is is that we have to do what
46:21
Speaker 6: we were talking about earlier. We have to fight through
46:24
Speaker 6: the boredom to just spare, keep working on our drafts
46:27
Speaker 6: and make them so good that it blows people away.
46:31
Speaker 6: I mean, I got my short got into Sundance two
46:34
Speaker 6: years ago and got me a job, like a feature
46:37
Speaker 6: writing job shortly thereafter. And it was all because of
46:42
Speaker 6: the work that I put into the short. And I
46:44
Speaker 6: made the short as best I knew. I just made
46:47
Speaker 6: it best I could, and you know, and it worked.
46:51
Speaker 6: You know, it got into Sundance and people saw it
46:54
Speaker 6: and land and you know, it led to a really
46:56
Speaker 6: nice you know, it helped it can helped my career
47:01
Speaker 6: and then moved everything forward. And you know, somebody would
47:04
Speaker 6: be like, oh, you know, it didn't follow any kind
47:07
Speaker 6: of formula or anything else in terms of I just
47:10
Speaker 6: decided to make you know, I was like, I want
47:11
Speaker 6: to make the shore to kind of show people I
47:14
Speaker 6: can direct, and it ended up doing things that I
47:17
Speaker 6: did not anticipate or expect.
47:19
Speaker 7: I but the thing that I did plan on.
47:22
Speaker 6: Doing was making it as best I could.
47:24
Speaker 7: And so everybody.
47:26
Speaker 8: And I know people be like, well whatever, you know, yeah.
47:30
Speaker 6: Sure right, it worked really hard on your screen place,
47:33
Speaker 6: that's really great advice. Well you know what, that's what happened.
47:38
Speaker 6: I mean it's like, where do you think get out.
47:41
Speaker 7: Any of these movies?
47:42
Speaker 9: Anything that's like comes out of nowhere? Any you know,
47:45
Speaker 9: anything that like it's like interesting, where do you think
47:48
Speaker 9: it comes from? It comes from people like picking up,
47:51
Speaker 9: you know, opening it up, getting.
47:53
Speaker 6: Going with their movie, working really hard on it, continuing
47:57
Speaker 6: to take notes, continuing to push it forward. That's that's
48:01
Speaker 6: stuff that's never that's that has not changed, you know.
48:04
Speaker 6: And yeah, the idea, maybe it's a good thing that like,
48:08
Speaker 6: oh you can't just put together a high concept and
48:12
Speaker 6: the movie movie.
48:13
Speaker 7: You know, the.
48:14
Speaker 6: Studios are so scared somebody else is going to get it,
48:17
Speaker 6: so they buy something and it's like sort of half
48:20
Speaker 6: baked and it's not even that great, and then you
48:22
Speaker 6: don't even get to really work on it after.
48:23
Speaker 7: They bought it.
48:24
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, maybe that's not really what we want,
48:29
Speaker 6: you know, maybe we want a system that is like
48:32
Speaker 6: that is exactly like that. It's like right, a big
48:35
Speaker 6: sick right right, write something like three billboards, come up
48:39
Speaker 6: with something created QRTE, create a dramatic story, write a
48:43
Speaker 6: really funny comedy RTE a really scary horror movie, and
48:47
Speaker 6: and just make it the best.
48:48
Speaker 7: You can, you know.
48:50
Speaker 6: And I think the market's gonna find you anyways, and
48:53
Speaker 6: it might be better than if they bought your high
48:57
Speaker 6: concept you know, a thing fifteen years ago or twenty
49:02
Speaker 6: years ago and did that you know?
49:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the movie you took the Sundance was dog Ball, correct.
49:10
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that was a short I had a couple
49:12
Speaker 6: of years ago that I that I had there.
49:15
Speaker 7: You know.
49:16
Speaker 6: That's also that's on Amazon Prime, So if anybody you
49:19
Speaker 6: know wants.
49:20
Speaker 7: To see it, it's.
49:21
Speaker 6: It's on Amazon Prime. So if you have Amazon Prime,
49:23
Speaker 6: you can watch it for free.
49:25
Speaker 3: And I'll make sure to link to that in the
49:27
Speaker 3: show notes as well.
49:28
Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, just you know, so if you're like,
49:31
Speaker 6: you're like, I want to see if this guy and
49:32
Speaker 6: that's what.
49:32
Speaker 7: He's talking about, I would see his crappy short, I'm
49:35
Speaker 7: gonna go.
49:36
Speaker 6: I'm gonna go check out his short see if it's
49:38
Speaker 6: good man.
49:40
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
49:46
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
49:51
Speaker 3: I want to check out when you Gordy Hoffman.
49:53
Speaker 8: So yeah, yeah, you gotta you gotta check up.
49:55
Speaker 6: You gotta watch Dog Bowling and see like, come on, man,
49:58
Speaker 6: check it out. It's nothing like you know, you, oh,
50:00
Speaker 6: check Upy's movie. You're like, oh man, he really But
50:03
Speaker 6: I think.
50:04
Speaker 8: People were like, so I was good.
50:06
Speaker 7: It's got some nice, great actor.
50:08
Speaker 6: I mean, the star of is excellent, and I think
50:10
Speaker 6: people enjoy it.
50:12
Speaker 7: Yeah.
50:13
Speaker 5: You know, I remember, you know, I saw you were
50:16
Speaker 5: crowdfunding for that, and I just wanted to ask Gordy,
50:19
Speaker 5: you know, really quickly, you know, what were your experiences
50:21
Speaker 5: crowdfunding that movie did? Was crowdfunding what you thought it
50:23
Speaker 5: would be. It was a little harder, a little easier.
50:26
Speaker 6: Oh man, it's like I mean, for somebody with low
50:29
Speaker 6: self esteem, I mean it is brutal. You gotta you
50:31
Speaker 6: gotta like, you know what I mean, you gotta ask
50:33
Speaker 6: people for stuff. It's like, oh, I mean it really
50:37
Speaker 6: but you know what it was like, I was, I
50:39
Speaker 6: you know, I you know, I stumbled onto a lot
50:42
Speaker 6: of things that you do well. I mean, it's a
50:44
Speaker 6: whole nother podcast, but you know, I I you know,
50:47
Speaker 6: I found my way through it and people I had
50:50
Speaker 6: a lot of people that wanted to help me and
50:53
Speaker 6: I so I had a successful run. And then I
50:56
Speaker 6: hadn't finished the script yet, and I like, I raised
50:59
Speaker 6: all this money and I was like, oh no, now
51:01
Speaker 6: this has to be good and talk about pressure.
51:03
Speaker 7: I was like whoa.
51:05
Speaker 6: And but then I you know, then I kept it
51:07
Speaker 6: was great. I mean, you know, I really made you
51:10
Speaker 6: committed to like making a great movie. It was an
51:13
Speaker 6: excellent way to fund the movie.
51:16
Speaker 7: It worked.
51:17
Speaker 6: I mean yeah, I mean think about all the Kickstarter
51:20
Speaker 6: campaigns or crowdfunding campaigns you've been involved with, and you know,
51:24
Speaker 6: and fortunately for my backers, you know, they backed a
51:28
Speaker 6: film that went to Sundance. You know, so they were
51:30
Speaker 6: like they were like, wow, this is awesome. And then
51:33
Speaker 6: it went and then it went you know, I played
51:35
Speaker 6: all over the country and you know, so people were
51:37
Speaker 6: able to a lot of people that backed it were
51:40
Speaker 6: able to see it in a theater, like at a festival,
51:43
Speaker 6: and and I was at a lot of those festivals.
51:46
Speaker 6: So it was really it was super fun. And and
51:49
Speaker 6: but yeah, the Kickstarter was a lot of work. I mean,
51:52
Speaker 6: you know, it's again it's a whole other podcast. But
51:54
Speaker 6: you know, there's a lot there's a few few tips
51:57
Speaker 6: for that. But if you ever want to do a
51:59
Speaker 6: kick Starter, like like as I did two campaigns with
52:04
Speaker 6: dog Ball, one at the beginning, one at the end,
52:06
Speaker 6: and yeah, I've got a raft of experience about that,
52:09
Speaker 6: and I always always want to share that because I
52:12
Speaker 6: think there's a lot of things that people do and
52:16
Speaker 6: they can avoid and and I think it's a great
52:19
Speaker 6: way to find the money to make a short film
52:23
Speaker 6: and show people that you can write and show.
52:26
Speaker 7: People you can direct, and.
52:29
Speaker 6: You know, I think it's Kickstarter is fantastic, but there
52:32
Speaker 6: are some things that I think people get, you know,
52:35
Speaker 6: and it usually goes ultimate you know, in many ways,
52:38
Speaker 6: it goes back to, you know, something that bogs writers down,
52:42
Speaker 6: bogs filmmakers down, as.
52:44
Speaker 7: A lack of patience.
52:45
Speaker 6: I think people are impatient to launch their campaign. They're
52:49
Speaker 6: impatient to shoot, so they don't want to like do
52:52
Speaker 6: another draft, they don't want to write another movie.
52:54
Speaker 7: They want to get to shooting.
52:56
Speaker 6: And I think with Kickstarter, it's like you just kind
52:58
Speaker 6: of want to launch it, you know, and you're like,
53:00
Speaker 6: I want to Okay, We're ready, you know, and then
53:02
Speaker 6: you launch it, and you know, you don't really have
53:04
Speaker 6: your ducks in a row. You're not really ready, and
53:07
Speaker 6: then all of a sudden it's.
53:08
Speaker 7: Like, oh, you know, like I'm like, no one is
53:12
Speaker 7: no one.
53:12
Speaker 6: I don't really I'm not really getting the money I
53:14
Speaker 6: thought I was going to get, you know. And I
53:16
Speaker 6: think it goes back to having some patience and you know,
53:21
Speaker 6: preparing and doing the right work and getting it all
53:23
Speaker 6: ready and doing exactly what you would do if you were,
53:27
Speaker 6: you know, wanting to shoot a script, you know, just
53:29
Speaker 6: taking the.
53:29
Speaker 7: Time to do it.
53:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
53:31
Speaker 5: You know, I crowdfunded way back when, in like twenty ten,
53:34
Speaker 5: and then I did it again in twenty eleven, and
53:37
Speaker 5: you know, it was explaining people what crowd funding was
53:40
Speaker 5: it that time, because you know, not you know, nowadays
53:42
Speaker 5: everybody has a kickstarter. It seems I think some people
53:44
Speaker 5: get a little burned out, right, But I mean when
53:46
Speaker 5: you're actually doing it, Gordy, I mean I hear you.
53:50
Speaker 5: I was right there with you, because it feels, you know,
53:54
Speaker 5: you're like, my god, is this seeming even gona be possible?
53:57
Speaker 5: You know, are people you know, because everyone will tell
53:59
Speaker 5: you what what I usually do is, and this is
54:01
Speaker 5: really quickly bring out of time.
54:03
Speaker 3: I I call it the one percent rule.
54:06
Speaker 5: And so if you ask one hundred people to donate
54:08
Speaker 5: to your crowdfunding campaign, ninety nine everyone everyone's gonna tell
54:12
Speaker 5: you yes, but ninety nine won't do it, and that
54:15
Speaker 5: one person will actually go through it and and and
54:18
Speaker 5: give you some money. So if you use that one
54:21
Speaker 5: percent rule, that's what the that's the multiplication that you're
54:24
Speaker 5: gonna have to do to make sure that you have
54:27
Speaker 5: your movie. So your multiplication your and your your division.
54:30
Speaker 5: And then if you you you figure you have to
54:31
Speaker 5: tell that many people. So if you know that you're
54:34
Speaker 5: gonna need maybe like I don't know, twenty thousand dollars,
54:37
Speaker 5: twenty thousand dollars, you have to kind of can you know,
54:39
Speaker 5: figure out how many people that you're gonna have to
54:41
Speaker 5: talk to in order to get that done, because you know,
54:45
Speaker 5: everyone does what's called Chinese math, and they're like, well,
54:47
Speaker 5: if I had twenty thousand people each give me a dollar,
54:50
Speaker 5: i'd have one have them all the money, or I
54:53
Speaker 5: need only need one person to give me twenty thousand dollars,
54:55
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
54:56
Speaker 3: So it's kind of like, you know, using all that to.
54:59
Speaker 5: Your advan and you have to figure out, you know, Okay,
55:01
Speaker 5: these are where I could go.
55:03
Speaker 3: These are the family, these are the friends. They can
55:04
Speaker 3: give me thirty percent.
55:05
Speaker 1: You know.
55:06
Speaker 5: It's stuff like that that you know you've learned as
55:09
Speaker 5: you as you go about doing all this stuff.
55:13
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's a you know, there's a lot of
55:16
Speaker 6: stuff going on with it. But I think it, I
55:19
Speaker 6: mean it boils down to content, how you present you know,
55:24
Speaker 6: your idea, and I think there's a lot of pitfalls
55:27
Speaker 6: with that. I figure people think, oh, I should make
55:30
Speaker 6: a four minute video. No one in the world has
55:33
Speaker 6: ever watched a four minute video. No one watches four
55:35
Speaker 6: minute videos ever. It's like, you know, and it's like,
55:39
Speaker 6: let me explain it. Let me bring everybody in. Let's
55:41
Speaker 6: talk for seven minutes about what the movie's going to
55:43
Speaker 6: be about.
55:44
Speaker 8: No oney want to Nobody.
55:45
Speaker 7: Wants to watch that. You know.
55:46
Speaker 6: It's like, so there's these things that you sort of realize.
55:49
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, make a forty five second video,
55:52
Speaker 6: you know, and and like write a little bit about it.
55:54
Speaker 6: People want to read it. They're going to find it,
55:56
Speaker 6: but basically just give them a little video reminder. Make
55:59
Speaker 6: sure you have a ton of rewards, make sure you
56:02
Speaker 6: have a lot of different ways for people to get in.
56:04
Speaker 6: If you only have one twenty five dollars award and
56:07
Speaker 6: then the next one seventy five dollars, you're gonna be
56:09
Speaker 6: in trouble, you know. But if you have five different
56:11
Speaker 6: twenty five dollars awards. You know, some people don't want DVDs,
56:15
Speaker 6: you know, they don't want a poster, you know. And
56:17
Speaker 6: it's like if the only thing at that money level
56:20
Speaker 6: is a poster, and then they're like, I don't want
56:22
Speaker 6: a poster, you know. But if you're like, oh, you know,
56:25
Speaker 6: I won't give you anything at twenty five dollars, you
56:28
Speaker 6: get people signed up for that because they don't want
56:30
Speaker 6: anything nail to them, you know. I mean, it's like
56:33
Speaker 6: it's amazing. I mean all these things that I sort
56:35
Speaker 6: of learned while I.
56:36
Speaker 7: Was doing it.
56:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's all the things, you know, speak of
56:41
Speaker 5: the video really quickly. I know we were almost out
56:43
Speaker 5: of time, but really, but I once had a friend
56:45
Speaker 5: of mine his crowdfunding campaign was not going anywhere, and
56:50
Speaker 5: he said, could you you know, he goes, Dave, I've
56:51
Speaker 5: know you've done this before, would you mind looking at
56:53
Speaker 5: this for me?
56:54
Speaker 3: And I looked at it and and Gordie. He had him.
56:58
Speaker 5: He had like a nine or ten minute trailer, so
57:01
Speaker 5: to speak, and it was him talking on the couch.
57:04
Speaker 5: I said, my god, I said, what could you pop it?
57:07
Speaker 5: There was no like other shots. There was no like
57:09
Speaker 5: footage of the movie or even concept art or the
57:12
Speaker 5: storyboard or nothing even the screenplay, for godsakes. It was
57:15
Speaker 5: literally him on a couch talking for like ten minutes.
57:18
Speaker 5: And I said, dude, I know you and I don't
57:19
Speaker 5: want to do any money to this.
57:23
Speaker 7: Yeah.
57:24
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really. I mean I
57:27
Speaker 6: learned that like right when I was doing it. They
57:30
Speaker 6: I mean somebody I was reading a blog and somebody
57:32
Speaker 6: was like, we we watched we watched videos for six months,
57:38
Speaker 6: like we just studied kickstarter campaigns for six months. And
57:41
Speaker 6: I was like, wow, okay, and they were like, and
57:44
Speaker 6: we ended up making a movie. We ended our video
57:47
Speaker 6: ended up being two minutes or a minute and a
57:51
Speaker 6: half or something like that. And they said, and we
57:53
Speaker 6: should have made it shorter. And I was like when
57:56
Speaker 6: I heard that, I was like, whoa, And so my
58:00
Speaker 6: you know, my video is seventy seconds.
58:03
Speaker 7: I think it's like a minute.
58:05
Speaker 6: And I made it like a deconstruct I did like this.
58:08
Speaker 6: I just came up with a quick concept and went
58:10
Speaker 6: out and shot it, and it was it was a
58:12
Speaker 6: little bit slapped together, but it was like I just
58:15
Speaker 6: I was like, I'm gonna sort of do the anti
58:17
Speaker 6: Kickstarter video and not really it was different, but people
58:20
Speaker 6: loved the video, you know, and and it was like
58:23
Speaker 6: it was people really responded to the video because it
58:26
Speaker 6: just reminded people like, oh, Gorty's talented, is funny or whatever.
58:30
Speaker 6: You know, they just had enough and then you know
58:33
Speaker 6: so and then I just I And I also believe
58:35
Speaker 6: I had a lot of rewards.
58:37
Speaker 7: I had creative rewards.
58:38
Speaker 6: They were funny to read, and I had a ton
58:41
Speaker 6: of different ones, you know, not so many that people
58:43
Speaker 6: couldn't make a decision, but I just had a lot
58:46
Speaker 6: of ways for people to participate. And I also just
58:49
Speaker 6: remember that it's like just remember not everybody wants a DVD.
58:55
Speaker 6: And if you apply that principle to every war that
58:58
Speaker 6: you give, then you're gonna come up with alternatives and
59:01
Speaker 6: you'll be surprised that people will actually they'll take the
59:05
Speaker 6: other thing, and you'll be like, oh, they don't even
59:08
Speaker 6: want a DV or they don't even want to a
59:10
Speaker 6: download or you know, they just want to this, you know,
59:13
Speaker 6: they want to actually have that or whatever. And but yeah,
59:16
Speaker 6: the videos, you know, I don't think I've ever watched
59:19
Speaker 6: a video, I mean anything that's over, like literally and
59:24
Speaker 6: everyone you go on, they're always like four minutes long,
59:27
Speaker 6: five and it's like you kidding me. I mean, no
59:29
Speaker 6: one watches, nobody wants Nobody watches that, not even you know,
59:33
Speaker 6: not that anyone related to them. Nobody, nobody watches. You know,
59:36
Speaker 6: it's just too long, man, it's too long.
59:39
Speaker 7: Dude.
59:41
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
59:47
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
59:49
Speaker 8: Okay, come on, man.
59:52
Speaker 3: The best crowdfunding video I've ever seen.
59:54
Speaker 5: Gordy this guy actually pretended he was kidnapped and the
59:59
Speaker 5: film and he was actually and his guys were like, well,
1:00:02
Speaker 5: you know, you need this money, and he would goes, well,
1:00:05
Speaker 5: I'll get it, and they're like, who's going to give
1:00:07
Speaker 5: you this money? He said, I'll go to crowd I'll
1:00:09
Speaker 5: go to Kickstarter and or Indigo go and he goes,
1:00:11
Speaker 5: I'll ask her money on that and he goes. They go,
1:00:13
Speaker 5: really you can do that, and they That was the
1:00:15
Speaker 5: pitch and it was actually it tied into the movie
1:00:18
Speaker 5: as well because it was about a kidnapping, so it
1:00:20
Speaker 5: was actually pretty creative.
1:00:22
Speaker 3: And it was the body by Kenny g.
1:00:25
Speaker 5: Not not the musician by the way, it was, but
1:00:27
Speaker 5: it was another another Kenny G. But but but I'll
1:00:30
Speaker 5: look to that everyone in the show notes. But it
1:00:32
Speaker 5: was actually a really really good, good crowdfunding campaign and
1:00:36
Speaker 5: he ended up making the movie. But but you know, Gordy,
1:00:39
Speaker 5: I know we're running out of time. I just enclosing, Gordy, Uh,
1:00:42
Speaker 5: I just want to talk about Blue Cat again. I
1:00:45
Speaker 5: know Blue Cat it's open for submissions right now for
1:00:47
Speaker 5: the twenty eighteen season. So if you could, you know,
1:00:51
Speaker 5: just in the in the few minutes we have left,
1:00:53
Speaker 5: could you just you know, give us a little bit
1:00:54
Speaker 5: more information about Blue Cat.
1:00:58
Speaker 6: Well, everybody should know that we have really great readers
1:01:04
Speaker 6: and we provide written analysis on every script that enters.
1:01:07
Speaker 6: So if you enter blue Cat, you will get notes
1:01:10
Speaker 6: back on your script. Google read your entire script and
1:01:13
Speaker 6: you will get notes back. So that's that's a lot
1:01:15
Speaker 6: of people still don't know about that, but Blue Cat's
1:01:18
Speaker 6: been doing that for you know, over fifteen years now.
1:01:21
Speaker 6: But that's that's that's one of our traditions and we
1:01:24
Speaker 6: do that as a part of the entry fee. We
1:01:27
Speaker 6: accept features, shorts, pilots, both hour and a half hour,
1:01:32
Speaker 6: and we are also accepting short films this year, the
1:01:35
Speaker 6: first time we've ever done that. So we're gonna have
1:01:37
Speaker 6: a screening next June of the top short films that
1:01:41
Speaker 6: we receive. The deadline's February twentieth and the next I'm
1:01:48
Speaker 6: not sure when you're airing this, but February twentieth is
1:01:50
Speaker 6: the is the next is the final deadline, and you
1:01:55
Speaker 6: know you can google us and sure you guys will
1:01:57
Speaker 6: have the links for that.
1:01:58
Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, if.
1:02:00
Speaker 6: You're ready to submit, you'd like to get some notes,
1:02:02
Speaker 6: Blue Cats great for that. If you've got if you're
1:02:05
Speaker 6: really really excited about your script, please send it to us.
1:02:08
Speaker 6: If you're still like knowing you needed to work on it,
1:02:11
Speaker 6: and work on it, send it to Nichols or Austin
1:02:15
Speaker 6: later out of the year and you can you can
1:02:17
Speaker 6: get back to us in the future. But you know,
1:02:20
Speaker 6: just use blue Cat use screenplay contests to you know,
1:02:24
Speaker 6: to help you and encourage you to develop yourself. And
1:02:28
Speaker 6: and only when that happens, you know, should you be
1:02:31
Speaker 6: using screenplay contests? But yeah, we're really excited. We you know,
1:02:35
Speaker 6: we have a great such a fantastic group of readers.
1:02:39
Speaker 6: I'm very proud of them, and and and everyone really
1:02:43
Speaker 6: loves our feedback. So you know, looking looking forward to
1:02:47
Speaker 6: meeting the next winner and you know, the next winners
1:02:51
Speaker 6: and uh and yeah, so I'm looking forward to getting
1:02:55
Speaker 6: your scripts.
1:02:57
Speaker 7: Yeah.
1:02:57
Speaker 5: And like I said, I've entered Blue Cat before and
1:03:00
Speaker 5: I really like the feedback that I got. And like
1:03:03
Speaker 5: I said, Gordy, you're somebody have I have wanted to
1:03:04
Speaker 5: have on here before because you have you have the right,
1:03:08
Speaker 5: you know, attitude, the personality to run a screwing competition.
1:03:11
Speaker 5: You're you're not only the founder, but you're also like
1:03:13
Speaker 5: this brand ambassador for it. And you know you have
1:03:16
Speaker 5: that right attitude for it.
1:03:17
Speaker 7: Man.
1:03:18
Speaker 5: And uh I and uh, you know that's why it's
1:03:21
Speaker 5: so cool having you are on Gordy excepent every interview.
1:03:23
Speaker 5: You know what I mean, It's like you're the type
1:03:24
Speaker 5: of guy like nothing bothers you, you know what I mean,
1:03:26
Speaker 5: You're just like you just go with the flow.
1:03:30
Speaker 6: Well I appreciate that, man, I mean, hopefully I can
1:03:33
Speaker 6: remember that sometimes when I'm a traffic out in Los Angeles.
1:03:36
Speaker 6: But yeah, I uh look forward to being back on again. Man,
1:03:41
Speaker 6: it was a great talk. I could we could probably
1:03:44
Speaker 6: keep going. I mean, so if you ever want me
1:03:45
Speaker 6: back on, I'd love to talk about anything you you know,
1:03:48
Speaker 6: want to get into. There's a lot of stuff and
1:03:50
Speaker 6: the just a great interview and love having love being on.
1:03:55
Speaker 5: Oh and I'd love to have you back on, Gordy.
1:03:56
Speaker 5: And and before we uh we we sort of cut
1:03:59
Speaker 5: this off. Where can people find you out online?
1:04:04
Speaker 6: Well, you can find me if you Google, you can
1:04:06
Speaker 6: find my probably my Instagram account and I you know,
1:04:09
Speaker 6: I don't really tweet a lot, but I do have
1:04:11
Speaker 6: a Twitter account, and you know, you can reach out
1:04:14
Speaker 6: to me through Blue Cat. It's pretty easy to find
1:04:17
Speaker 6: Blue Cat and you can reach out to me the
1:04:21
Speaker 6: air and stuff. And I'm also you know, one of
1:04:23
Speaker 6: the things that we do where there's a lot of
1:04:25
Speaker 6: interaction is we have something called the Blue Cat Writers
1:04:29
Speaker 6: Group and that's on Facebook and it's a closed group,
1:04:33
Speaker 6: but pretty much anyone who wants to join just gets
1:04:36
Speaker 6: approved and we always have weekly discussion questions and you know,
1:04:40
Speaker 6: there's a lot of interaction, and it's very positive and
1:04:44
Speaker 6: it's not overwhelming, and there's not a lot of you know,
1:04:46
Speaker 6: extra stuff in there. It's really you know, it's really
1:04:49
Speaker 6: about the craft of writing and sort of give and
1:04:51
Speaker 6: take around that. So that's another place that people can
1:04:54
Speaker 6: find me.
1:04:55
Speaker 5: And I'll make sure everyone to link to all of
1:04:58
Speaker 5: Gordy's social media links in the show notes. But Gordy
1:05:01
Speaker 5: Hoffman Man, it has been a blast talking to you,
1:05:04
Speaker 5: and I definitely would like to have you back on
1:05:06
Speaker 5: because we you know, I like we were just saying,
1:05:08
Speaker 5: you know, we could we could talk for another whole
1:05:09
Speaker 5: another hour or.
1:05:10
Speaker 7: Two, right, well, looking forward to it, Dave.
1:05:15
Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
1:05:17
Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
1:05:18
Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
1:05:20
Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Indie film huscle
1:05:23
Speaker 2: dot com Forward slash seven ninety one, and if you
1:05:25
Speaker 2: have it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe.
1:05:30
Speaker 4: And leave a good review for the show. It really
1:05:33
Speaker 4: helps us out a lot.
1:05:34
Speaker 7: Guys.
1:05:35
Speaker 4: Thank you again so much for listening to guys.
1:05:36
Speaker 2: As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
1:05:39
Speaker 2: Stay safe.
1:05:40
Speaker 4: Out there and I'll talk to you soon.
1:05:43
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
1:05:46
Speaker 1: Indie film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
1:05:49
Speaker 1: E F I L M h U S T l
1:05:52
Speaker 1: E dot com.