Latest / Pod Therapy / #351: Uncomfortable Sadness, Selfish Brother in Law, Aging and Death

Transcript

#351: Uncomfortable Sadness, Selfish Brother in Law, Aging and Death · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This like, it's like, why because it's too good? Because
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I can't be happy no respect? I mean how much?
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: So much boring? Yeah, Also, get out of this bet
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: your son's taken it math.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: This episode was made possible by our therapy partners, Journey
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: B and Picket from Fabulous Las Vegas, No matter. This
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: You can sument your questions anonymously at pod therapy dot
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: net or email that's at pod therapy guys at gmail
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: dot com. And now broadcasting from the Churn. That's Jim,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: that's Whitney.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I'm Nick. It's time for some pod therapy and welcome back.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: You know, we did our whole Patreon thing. We're discussing
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: all the things about our sleep arrangements and how this
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: all works. If you'd like to know how we each
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: sleep Patreon dot com slash therapy. But before you listen
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: to that place, your bets. You know, what do you
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: think everybody? What's side sleeper? Tommy sleeper back sleeper?
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: I gotta hear, yeah, I'm curious.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: And which of us is the most neurotic sleeper? Which
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I think was pretty estout. That was that's easy. Yeah,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: we discuss it. There was a pretty clear winner on
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: that one. We did not even mention the fact that
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Jacob just returned from a lovely vacation, a very nice vacation.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I went to Blieze.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: I went to, uh, Jim, where is Blieze?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: What continent is it? On? Believe it's more of a
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: state of mind.
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: Okay, I'll take that Central America.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Central America.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it was really nice. It was super nice.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: The weather was wonderful. We spent a lot of time
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: on the beach. We did some some snorkeling and some
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: uh some some real.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Did you see very much?
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's there.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: We boted way out there coral reefs okay, and so
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: we we snorkeled in these coral reefs. And they had
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: one area where they're growing new coral reefs and that
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: was really clol like frames built and they were doing
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: all that and like, uh, you know, we tubed down
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: a river one day and swam in a waterfall, and
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: you know, all the all the postcard things.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: How long were you there? A week? Damn? That's it Monday,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Monday to Saturday.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: I like that a lotuns better than Reno I don't know.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: They've got grass I surprisingly unaffected by climate change, I
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: think is what they've been saying. They put in the
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: pool also unaffected. Yeah, completely unaffected. Oh cool man. So
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: do you fly Spirit out there? Oh? Yeah, yeah sure.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I just sat there on the wing.
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, place southwest coming back, but going there, we flew
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: United and s J surprised me and upgraded the second
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: leg of our trip on on United to first class.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So we had, like we had the international leg. First
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: class must be nice. It was.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: It was very nice, and it was because international it's
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: it's you do the whole.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: There's a meal, there's all the things. You know, it's
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: not a good wet towel harm. Yeah, barber comes out,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: lathers you up, gives you a shade. Don't move.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: People are still boarding, you know, their their service, drinks
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: and those things.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Did you scowl at all the people going back to coach?
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I pretended that they weren't there. Yeah, you look at that.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I asked the flight attendts we go ahead and
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: close the door early.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Past me.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Chilly, can we close the door please? Says he boarded
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: the rest of the flight from the back of the plane.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I like that. Man's hat, Go fetch it for you.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: He doesn't need that anymore. Excuse me, peasant. Yeah, I
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: always like gifts that you can give your partner that
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: are for you. But you know, like, oh, I upgraded you, right,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: sheouldn't just upgrade you class. She wasn't sitting back and coach.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: That would have been pretty cool, though. I just upgraded
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: you like I'm over here with the poppers, right, very cool?
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: That was great, and you stayed in a little.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: The difference between a villa and a house, yeah, one
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: spelled different. It's a whole lot like a house. I
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: think once moretentious.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, certainly, yeah, certainly Spanish?
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Is villa house in Spanish? Cassa's house in Spanish? Yes
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it is? Yea, Yeah, that is just truth. Is this
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: one of those don't drink the water countries? No? Okay?
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: That it was great? How was the water? Water? Was fine?
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: That tastes parasitic? It did not know. What do you
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: think it would take for Jim to go there? Abduction?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah you would. It's a beautiful picture. Yeah. Three hour
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: flight from Houston? Oh is that?
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Wow?
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm shocked that it's that. We flew to Houston
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and the three hours. We're in Belize. That is so here.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: It's like three and three. You're just flying over Mexico. Yeah,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: so it's but it's not an island because it's Central America.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It's in Central that umbilical cord that connects the that's right, Okay,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: it's a little it's it's north of Panama. Yeah, the
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: place with the hole in it so we can close
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: enough push the boats through. They call it a canal.
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: But the court yeah, yeah, I'm talking about yeah America.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: But you'd have to learn the language, though I don''t
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: be doing that.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: Well, that's what they believe. They all speak English. The
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: most common language. The most common language there is English, because.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: They speak that, I think the official language. Right.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're a British commonwealth. They used to be a
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: British territory. The day that we were leaving was actually
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: their independence day.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, they have like thick British accents.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: No, hell yeah.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Everywhere. Let's get him some bangs and mask. Very cool. O.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Best meal? What was the best meal you had?
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Just sure?
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: We had a hired chef at the house. I was
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: so we every meal was kind of the best meal.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Jacob's lost touch with the common man's possible.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I'm really impressed that he still talks to any This.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: All about Jacob button. Your first.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Is that askot a little tight? It looks like tight.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I was just disgusted looking at us. I need to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: say something. I need you all to get out of that. Also,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: use these lightsole wipes everywhere you've touched the wall chairs.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: I don't mind hearing you as much, but booth, it's
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: got like a partition.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Have my little apartment over here. Oh my god. Well,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you had good travels. Masterpiece theater there, well,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: welcome back. A lot of fun travels check out. You
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: can also hear about Nick's lovely travels, which were equally nice.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Vacation equally nice. Yeah, so pedro dot concet. Yeah there
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you go, sucker.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean not much more than what you got
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: paid to.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Go there as nothing. I hate to make it worse.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Somebody else paid for it. And then he recorded one
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: ten minute podcast while obvious there's the whole thing is
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: DEDUCTI bullets. Right there, you go, perfect, Well, I've talked
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: about it on this podcast. Now now count there. That's right. Yeah,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: retroactively yeah, anyway, we've got some great questions for today's show,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and leading off the lineup, no sadness allowed.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: I was just thinking, like leading off the lineup, I
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: get so mad when people talk about their vacation.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: I'm jelly.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gonna happen one day because we don't really
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: read these before, right, you know, so that the day
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: is going to come where we have said something during
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the pre show and then we're like.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, will has that's happened multiple times? Yeah, We've made
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: some stupid joke and the right into the question.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: That's also the pod Therapy brand is like somehow these
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: guys are hopping between talking about really deep, horrific ship
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: and then yeah, that's our brand. I mean, in fairness,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I bring in a dick joke, then that's that's right now,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: which you know, also there were tasteful dick jokes. I
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: felt tasty dick jokes. Anyways, about tasty, let's talk about sadness, Hello,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: pod Therapy. So I've had a very rough five years,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: loss of both my parents and three grandparents, overwhelming financial debt,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: two relationship breakups, fertility issues, job issues, and health issues
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: including two surgeries for cancer to name a few. Needless
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to say, I am stressed, sad, grieving, and trying to
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: deal with a lot of things. I'm sad and I'm
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: going to feel like this for a while. I still
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: have happy moments, they're also just filled with the sadness
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I currently carry and the sadness I will always carry
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: from losing people that I loved dearly. My struggle is
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like people in our society are okay
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: with me being sad. For a couple of examples, I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: was at a dentist appointment. The dentist asked me how
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I was, and I said, not great right now. He
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: immediately was uncomfortable and told me that he is sure
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I have plenty of great things going on and that
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: it will be better by the end of the day. Jesus,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that's a pretty big fucking guarantee, there, doc, I promise now,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: just breathe this in. We'll make it better. That laughing,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that's right, I have a little bit of this. He
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: immediately was uncomfortable and told me that he sure I
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: have plenty of great things going and that it will
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: be better by the end of the day. After I
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: made a social media post talking about how I thought
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: life was a struggle before losing my mom, but now
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I see that it wasn't as bad as I thought,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and how difficult it is now. I got a message
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: from a friend telling me how great I am and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: how much I have to look forward to. I understand
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that most of the responses from people are just caring
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: about me, wanting to help and wanting to make sure
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I'm all right. I understand that there could be a
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: worry about me hurting myself. I am not, by the way.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I understand that people think I'm being pessimistic and trying
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: to help me see the bright side. But I wish
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: people would just let me be sad, would respond with
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: stuff like that sucks, or I'm here for you, it's
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: okay and understandable that you feel that way, It's okay
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to be this version of you, and I love you, etc.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I have real things to be sad about, and I
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: feel that in order to process them, I have to
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: allow myself to feel these feelings. But now I feel
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: like I can't be honest about the way I'm feeling
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: because it makes people uncomfortable, or I get told to
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: ignore them or things aren't that bad. I feel like
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I have to hide my feelings and present as the happy, ego,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: lucky person people knew me to be or want me
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: to be. It makes me not want to go out
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: or be with friends because I don't have the energy
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: to pretend I'm okay. I hate having to lie and
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: say everything's great. This makes me feel lonelier and sadder
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: because it seems like there's no space for me anymore.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping you can let me know your thoughts on this,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: give advice on navigating and healing in a world that appears,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: at least to me, to not allow sadness. You're all
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: awesome and I appreciate you and this podcast so much.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Pronouns are she and her anonymous. Okay, So first off,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know why dentists ask questions. Why? Yes, what
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the fuck? I know, it's so dumb you're asking.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: When I come in, we get exchanged pleasantries and let's
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: just let's just do the thing.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: See, I love my dentist because she doesn't do any
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: of that. She does not talk to me at all.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: What she does they've actually got they've got TVs on
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the ceiling. Yeah, and it's just HG TV.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: So I just lay there and I watch whatever makeover
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: thing is happening, and she does her work and we're done.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: Mine doesn't have TVs, but they ask me what kind
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: of music I want to listen to when I come in?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's correct. I like that.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: And what I always say, by the way, is whatever
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: your favorite station is curious.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what like this? This dental hygenis? Yeah, what is?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: What is their favorite? I'm not doing it for them
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: as much as I am just curious. But for the
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: dentists and barbers and inhair people, we don't need to talk.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I would prefer that.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Barbers makes more sense to me because they're not in
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: your mouth.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: They're not in your mouth. No, you're right, like logistically,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the dentist talks are not in your mouth? Well mine
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: is that casts extra? Though?
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Where's my mouth?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Drop? Too late? Now, you're I forgot we have one.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: I was waiting for it.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: You can't just go in there it is. That's different one.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: But I like that one too. Yeah. Yeah, he's an artist. Whitney.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: You don't. You don't make them because I'm a bad boy.
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: I like it.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I think that when the drops happened while I am talking,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: when I've listened to them on the back end, and
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: it's really hard to realize that that's a dry Yeah, sounds.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: Like I'm just you're also bad at not commenting on
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: them too.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: This is true. I never just let them go, so
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm with you. One. I don't remember what
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the question was about, but on the same page about
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: That's the sadness. Let me just two cents really quick.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: The barber thing, that is where women go to talk
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: about all their problems.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: That's the expectation. Yeah, that I'm going to talk. I'm
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: having a conversation with my barber.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Pir stylists, barbers, bartenders. Yeah, the bartender are kind of societals. Yeah,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: go to therapists.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like if I was okay, here's the
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: difference though with women, And please correct me if I'm wrong,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: though I'm not because I probably were. Women. I know them,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I've met several, Okay, trust me, I'm married to I
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: know the ladies. But when y'all go get your hair done,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: it's not you don't do this once a month. You're
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: going every once in a while, and it's a while,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: like you're sitting. This is a whole fucking day, like
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you're you're making an appointment for hours it is, Yeah,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: so I can see that it'd be awkward as shit
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to not talk.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: To that four hours not talking to yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Whereas you know when you go barbershop, man, where's it
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: been in and out of there in twenty minutes? Like
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: there's really no need A good point, please put your
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: shirt back on, sir.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: But yeah, society, I would bet even at your barber
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: or hairdressers place, if you were just be like, oh,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: I'm not good, they kind of want a little bit then,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: but they're not Are they really gonna want.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: All of it? Yeah?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Because so that's my thought too, is like I think
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of that. It's it's kind of weird for
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: us because as therapist we kind of like, okay, we
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: can handle that.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I could sit in that uncomfortability.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I can deal with that. I think the average person
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: probably can't.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: But it's also, I mean, you have all this stuff
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: going on, but there are still basic social cues.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: That's a point.
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: And like you know, you know when someone's saying like, hey,
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: how you doing instead of saying hello, you know, in
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: place of saying hello, and sometimes it's a friend or
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe it is a barber or you know,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: someone like that that does want to have a more
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: meaningful conversation with you. It's just like, uh, you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: that's when you know, you know, how are you? How really,
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: how are you doing? You know they're going to have
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: that talk with you. I agree, But yeah, I mean
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: most people, you know, if you're just passing somebody the street,
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: they're like, hey, how you doing, It's perfectly acceptable to
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: answer with hey, great, yeah, well you know we have
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: to say you.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Don't have to acknowledge the question at all. You can
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: just say hello back and keep on walking. The social
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: etiquette pece of this, I do think is relevant. Like
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I think the writer is correct, and I want to
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: comments on that that in larger society there is a discomfort,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: yes with real things or things that are less sacarine right,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: totally fine. I want to look at that, especially when
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: you're not prepared for it. Yeah, but and that kind
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: of I do think that needs to be acknowledged here writer,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: is that there is sort of a social etiquette like
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: your dentist or like people in passing saying how are you?
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: It's not a genuine question, You're You're really not meant
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to provide a full or complete or truthful answer. It's
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: really more of a pro form a greeting that you're
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: sort of not supposed to be truthful too. It's like, hey,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: so how have you been lately? If you take that,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's beyond people not being comfortable with sadness.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's just people in that scenario not knowing
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: how to respond to truth. They're just not prepared. It
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter what a real response to it. Yeah, they
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: expect you to chuckle and make light or tell a
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: quick anecdote, but like, oh, well, you know, it's ben
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: hot outside, or it's pumpkins spice.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's kind of where the writer
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: comes in and saying like then it feels disingenuous, like
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not being my real self right. And I definitely
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: get that too, you know, because I don't know. It
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: is like when when ship is going wrong and you
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: feel just terrible and someone asks you how you doing.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: It does feel kind of weird to just say like
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I'm doing great.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: You're wanting answer. Sometimes you just want to give a
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: real answer to something.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, That's why I traditionally just go with my my
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: traditional Midwest response, which is living the dream one nightmare
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: at a time.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: There, Oh wow, is that a wow? In the dream
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: one nightmare at a time? Okay, I thought it was
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: ope that that's what you're going to say.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: That's not used and we can't use that for every response,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: but you could.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can get in there as much. How are
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you doing.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: What you're going to dope? Just gonna squee pastis like
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: known for having high rates of depression and suicide. Maybe
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: don't ask the dentist or don't share with them.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I can't leave. You're stuck in that chair. They have
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: very sharp things in their hands.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: But no, I do think for most part, I think
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: it is just a general discomfort that people have with like, yeah,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm making conversation and then now it's like,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: oh shit, this door's opened. I don't know if I
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: can close it, and I don't know what's going to
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: happen here, and it just kind of becomes uncomfortable. So yeah,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what the best way
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I guess if I'm in that situation, how I respond
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: to that is, you know, I'll just kind of like
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: ups and downs, been better, Yeah, you know, and then
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: if there's a follow up question like oh, what's going on,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: and it's like okay, well, now they're kind of opening up.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Now they're they're willing to hear about it, they're willing
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to talk about it. If they just shove it to
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: the side and just be like, yeah, I hear you
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: been better myself too, but yeah, let's go ahead and
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: get these teeth clean, you know, then we can well.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: And Writer seems to be there's an anecdote in this
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: letter that sounds like maybe writers posting on Facebook or
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: on social media because they said, I thought my life
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: couldn't be any worse back when my mother died, and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: of course now I realize that my life has gotten
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: much worse since then. And Writer seems to acknowledge this
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: that I think we all understand that if somebody's posting
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff into the social universe for our
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: eyes to see, sometimes it is a cry for help.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they want to be comforted, and we're not trying
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: to disrespect them, debate them, or express our discomfort with
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: their sadness so much as we're trying to attend to them.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And I think the average person doesn't know and this
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: something therapists to train in very differently. We don't train
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to just step in and remind people that everything's great
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: and like try to talk them off the ledge. We
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: try to see their their experience right, and we usually
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: start from a posture of wow, it sounds like this
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: has been really hard. I'm sorry you're going through that
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: without a hard pain of it into but hey, don't
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: forget you know, the fucking mcribs coming back. And I'm
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: just gonna say that mcribs coming back. Of course. Baby,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: We've been doing this a long time. We're basically the same.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: This is why we don't put it on. Yeah, but anyway,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: yeah no, But I mean to these people's defense, I
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: think that the general public if if anybody posts like that,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I think their first move and and honestly it's almost
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: enlightened of them not to comment, but to d M
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you and be like, hey, I saw that, hope you're okay.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I think of you. Font I don't know, so I
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: don't think people mean wrong of it. I think there
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: is a lack of understanding of how to attend to
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: somebody who is struggling.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I guess that's true because like, if I see something
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: like that, you know, on on Facebook or any kind
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: of social media. I too, am kind of wondering, like, Okay,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: so what do I do about this? Yeah, in this
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: particular situation.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: What are they looking for? Action?
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Feeling?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so do they do they want me to
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: reach out? Do they want to just acknowledgments?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Right? Do they think? Yeah? So it's just like a
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: lot of sometimes they want somewhere. Yeah, but it's like,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: well then, but you posted it in the social space
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: and one of the people can see it, I feel
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: obligated to react. There's no right way to do it.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: But but I do agree with the writer. Yes, I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: do think there's a general discomfort with sadness, which I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: think that that and I wonder if that's a culture thing.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that's an America thing. I feel like
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: America there's certain I think, like me lous of culture
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: that have sort of like pushed this chipper like make
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it work, yeah whatever, Melia. I don't know anyway, But
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's a it's a reservoir. Yeah yeah, yeah,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: undercurrents of those things. But no, I do think that
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: there's like this americanism of like everything's great, everything's working,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: don't look at the problem, don't describe the problem. We're
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: always like happy here. And I don't know like if
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: that's like influenced by mainstream Christianity, because it was sort
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: of like offensive to God to be like, oh, you're
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: not okay, so you must not be like a real
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Christian or like, you know, you're obviously focused on the
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: wrong things. And there was like this very much like
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: howdy duty sort of pivot to what's going right. And
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I do think that's a that's a regional culture thing too,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: because in the Midwest people tend to, I think, have
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: this sweep it under the rug mentality of like yeah,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: you know, but you know, no big deal. You know,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: how are you doing? Man? And it's like there's a
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: lot of this rub some dirt on it, noess around
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the country. And I don't know what that sacarin sunshiny
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: shit is, but I think it is representative of the discomfort.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if that's how it is in other countries.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: That's a good question.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, Americans are typically kind of poked fun out
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: for being like smiling all the.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Time, right, yeah, like Goober's you know, whereas like you
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: out of France, like they're very comfortable with the existential
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: dread and philosophy. Yeah, yeah, thanks. I've been to the Paris. Yeah,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I've been to the parish. Ship, I've eaten snails. I
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: fucking get it, man, I get why those people are depressed.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: He's eating snail shit sucks.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: And then when he that's why when he goes into
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: the Paris, he's he tries to acclimate and you know,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: speak the language.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: Boneer Bonder, Mercy buckets and scalet everywhere.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I want to be pretentious at French, I want to.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I wonder about that. I wonder if other
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: cultures is that, you know, like French for example, or
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: or you know, even you go to like Hispanic cultures,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Like I think that there's a difference with sadness and
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: like like Evenda dels Moertos and like you know specific
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: like baked in holidays sometimes that are not their celebratory,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: but they're also comfortable with bad. Yeah, and that that
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: fascinates me in a sense because I just don't think
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: America does that ship very well. Yeah, I don't think
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: so either. That's a good point.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Difference, right, have you guys seen the It's it's like
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: a cartoon or a post of like Winnie the Pooh
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: talking about how they all the characters treated E or
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: you know who was kind of like the depressed, you know,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: the donkey, Yeah, and so just kind of talking about
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: how they never tried to fix him, they never not
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: invited him play I always they always included him and
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: just accepted him as he is. And I've kind of
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: had mixed feelings about that, because like it makes a
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: good point, like we don't have to try to fix everything,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: and we definitely shouldn't like, oh, they're depressed. I don't
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: want to bring him along like exclude people for the reason,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you know. But then also there's kind of this other
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: part of it too, which is just like, well, but
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: does this person have to just live that way?
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: You know? Or is there can can we offer help?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Can we can we say like, you know, let's maybe
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: let's explore medication, right, you know, let's let's get you
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: into therapy, or let's do something about this, right, as
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: opposed to just like, well, this is just who he is.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: We just need to accept him, right.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, like I totally understand like how
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: frustrating it would be to have depression or feelings of
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: depression to be depressed, yeah, and then have everyone always
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: trying to fix.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: You yeah, or be dismissive about it yeah, or trite
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: or trying those those quick techniques to tell you why
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: it's going to be okay, which, okay, that does frustrate me, Like, Okay,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: if you've ever gone through tough things in life, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I think you've you've, I don't know, and I get
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: that whenever you're in that struggle bus kind of thing,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: sometimes you do just want to indicate it to other
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: humans and you're not necessarily trying to dump on them,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: but you do want to be able to just indicate, no,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not great right now, and that's my truth. And
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: when I've been in that situation and I've indicated it,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I would do well with somebody just being like, I'm
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: really sorry to hear that man and discontinue the conversation,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: like no, we're good, thank you, complete volley. I don't
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: need more from you. But it is pretentious and annoying
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: as fuck when somebody's like, ah, you know, brother, I'm
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: sure it's not that bad, and you know, don't forget
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: it gets better, you know, just get a pull out
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: of it, and I'm like, no, man, my dog fucking die.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: You don't like that's not gonna get better, Well you'll
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: get another one. Man, you should shut the fuck up.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I think that's probably where we're at.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: So I think I think there's two reasons people do that. Yeah,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: and I think one has good intent. Well, I think
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: they both have good intents. But I think part of it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: One reason why I think that happens is because like
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: they can kind of see this we've heard of like
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: riding the wave, you know, like you're kind of at
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: a low point. There's gonna be high points, low points. Again,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: you're kind of up and down right, and they see
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: that you're at a low point, and they just they
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable. So they want to try to push you
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: up to that high point as fast as problem exactly,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: which is like going back to what we used to
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: talk about back in the day, like when I would
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: facilitate group counseling right right, and we had you know,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: box of clean X and if somebody started crying group,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I had a rule in all my groups that if
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: that person wants the clean xbox, they get at it.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: But we can't have I don't want someone starts crying,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: and then five people start looking around for the clean
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: xbox and then no one's listening, you know, And what
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: it is is it's their own discomfort. They're like, I
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: see someone's emotional. I need to do something about it.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I feel uncomfortable, So here, take these this clean xbox
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: and deal with the shit, right, you know. I think
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: that's part of it. I think the other part of it, too,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: is probably genuine in the sense like they just want
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: to remind somebody like, hey, you know, you're not always
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: going to be this way. This isn't always going to
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: be bad. I mean, that's the thing is, and that
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: makes sense.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: It's it's usually true that things get better. Yeah, it's
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: just problems, it's true. Yeah, that's it's not the time
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: that you want to hear that information. People are always
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: scared to agree. It's sadness, Like, you know, it's it's
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: pretty bad, and I don't think I think it's the
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: hardest version of life I've ever had. And sometimes I
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: feel like you'll never get better, and it's like, yeah,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: it's you'll die one day though. That's kind of great,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: But then.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It is it is like when you're in that position,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: you kind of feel like there's nothing, there's no there's
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: nothing I can say that it's going to be the
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: right thing to say, because on the other hand, like
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I could say, like you know, you're talking about like, yeah,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: your dog died, you know, and I'm like, I know,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: like I dropped my burrito, right, I dropped it, So
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I feel your pain. It's like you don't want to
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: say you don't want to one up somebody, right, right,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: you don't want to compare your struggles. You want to
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: say that you want to empathize, right, but do so
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: in a way where you're not also like making it about.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Me, yeah, and avoiding agreeing with it, Like we don't
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: want to just agree that it is all terrible. And
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I think that's part of it is people are scared
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that you'll drift into the madness. Yeah, you know, and
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: they your dog died, that's that's terrible. You know.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: I was reading about the Ukraine today, Yeah, in Ukraine today.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that really got me down. So I'm right
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: there with you.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I was kind of going down
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: the same train Nick was with his analogy with the Kleenex.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: I actually have a shifted thought on that because when
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I was in grad school that was the thing, like,
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: don't give them the Kleenex because that's saying you aren't
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: comfortable with them crying. And I've heard some new info
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: come out that's it could be seen, maybe not in
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: a group setting, but like in one on one sessions
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: that offering a Kleenex is like, hey, I'm empathizing, like,
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: hey do you need this? Like I notice you're upset.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not just ignoring that. Yeah it's okay to cry, Yeah,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: it's it's interesting.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: But I please blow your nose ibilize it like Jim,
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: just to say I acknowledge your pain.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: You may continue as he unbuckles his excuse me while
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I get more comfortable. These dishes are for both of them. Boy,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I hope this is in your first episode. I always
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: wonder if there ever has been a good first episode.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: None of them are good landing zones.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: You can lubricate this conversation and everything else with your tears.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, she's heard already, Okay, not from what you think. Okay,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Jim beat.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Me too, that's what she said there.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: It is no. My favorite analogy that I heard from
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: actually my brother and sister in law with when parenting
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: was like when I use this in therapy all the
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: time is when a child, let's say, like a three
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: year old is running on the sidewalk and they trip
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: and fall and they scrape their knee and the parents like,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, you're okay, You're okay, don't cry, it's fine.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: It's like not giving them permission to just like, yeah,
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: I scrape my knee of fucking hurts. Like so to
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: just sit there and be like, oh, yeah, that looked
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: really painful. It must have hurt. Like you're kind of
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: just validating those feelings. And it doesn't always have to
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: be encouraging or like emphasizing the feeling, but just like
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: noticing and bringing awareness to.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: That's the right way to respond to the writer, you know,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And I get that it's tough and play conversations.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Don't do that young, It's a.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Shallow relationship, like I am just your dentist or I'm
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: just the waitress at Denny's. You know, like I'm sorry,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I hope better.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: You can say I hope you're like, you don't have
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: to say it will get better.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Like what you know, I don't want to make it worse,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Like well, fuck that the chef sucks tonight. You know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: he's been fucking up eggs all day. So all right,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: so brace yourself.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: I know, what do you think about like if friends
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: or people closer than like your dentists. I mean they
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: mentioned the social media post, Yeah she did, but it
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: almost sounds like maybe some friends aren't Really.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of also telling people what you need, yes,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: because it's not going to be very obvious.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, that was that was my thought exactly too, because
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I was thinking, God, we're just two.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: Little y'all are adorable.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: That's mostly because I get scared very easily.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Nick is Nick is my emotional support buddy. Yeah, he
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: just he just keeps me going. Yeah, that's all. No,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: But I was thinking that too.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Is like, because with the social media posts and things
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: like that, I think it does put a lot of
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: people in kind of an awkward situation like I'm not
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: sure what you want from me, but your your support system.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It always my experience, it seems to work best when
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: you are very direct and you how people like this
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: is what I need. Yeah, And even if that's like,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: you know, I've got a close friend I can call
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: and I can say, hey, I just need you to
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: hear this. I need some guidance here, right, or I
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: need you to just yeah, I need you. I need
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: to bounce something off you real quick, you know. Yeah,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: And that has always been very helpful because you're you're
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: telling the person what you need and they're like, okay, cool,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I'm ready, let's do this.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: That really helps.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a friend like that. I start off
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: their text like, hey, I need an opinion here.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just hey, I'm going through something right now.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I have some things in my heart. Can I just
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: open up to you? Can I just share that? And
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't want you to necessarily try to
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: fix it though, I don't want. I don't want to
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: scare you with my negativity. Do you think you could
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: handle that? And like, look, that's a quick one sentence
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: writer that you can give to a friend, and I
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: think most of them will go, oh, all right, So
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: now I understand the like, I don't need to hold
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the rope while you descend into the cave and then
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: pull you out with positivity. You need me to give
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you a mission came with you. Yeah, just climb in
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: with you, and don't be scared that you won't come
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: back out. Just see what you see. That's all. You
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: just want to turn on the lights and show me
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: what's down here, in the sense of like, can you
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: believe this shit? Can you believe how much worse it's getting?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Can you believe this happened? Then this happened, Then this happened.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: And sometimes you just need that person to go damn.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah wow, And that's gonna be that's going to be
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: way more effective than a post on social media.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I social media just in general just is very toxic. Well,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and I can see some people that is their way,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: you know, and that's okay, But boy, do I like
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a disclaimer in parentheses or something that gives us some
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: subtext that says, FYI, you know the disclaimers right. I'm okay,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not suicidal. I'm not going to hurt myself. I'm okay.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not looking for anybody to dispute this right now.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I just need to be heard, thanks everybody. And I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: like to finish out like I am on Reddit quite
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: a bit, uh, And I have a few threads to
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: the surprise of no one. Yeah, some threads that people
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: vent in, and I've occasionally vented. But then I always
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: like to finish my post with thank you for listening,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and I think that that nods too. There's no need
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: to dispute what I'm sharing today. This is just my
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: truth and I appreciate you bearing witness to it. That's
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: all I really needed today.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: I am the asshole post.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I usually speak on behalf of
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the assets. Yeah, I just you know, people get up there,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: they say there, I'm like, you know what, you're all
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: kind of fucking wrong, you know, like i'd be like,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: we're on the right side of this, so anyway, but
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: right or you're not wrong. I mean, the world does
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: have a discomfort with this. You're absolutely on the right
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: side of that. There are some things I think you
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: can do that nudge the social etiquette to teach other
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: people what you're looking for. And I think we can
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: also right size their expectations of some of our interactions
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: that you know, if we dump, you know, a plate
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of hot truth into a situation that's not designed for it,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: it's gonna get everywhere, it's gonna spill them. They're going
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: to try to immediately grab a mop and bucket like
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: they're not sure what to do with us. And you know,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily like Nick sa I'd want to push
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: you away from authenticity, but I also want us to
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: be adults in an adult world and recognize that. So
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: you need to go to France. Man. Those people are
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: just like life is shit. Yeah, so just they get it.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: They're not gonna correct you, They're actually gonna help you
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: understand how Yeah, all those British people and belize. We're
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: gonna take quick break and when we come back, we're
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: talking about aging and death. It's the happiest episode of
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: put Therapy ever.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Chun
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: your Min's Kayla Lansburry, Kevin's Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Dan Martin, lib Hey Yo, and Andrew Langmeade. And if
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: you would like to sponsor the show, become a therapy
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: producer at Patriot dot.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Com Sash Therapy. All Right, our intern has been busy.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: She's doing great, by the way, best intern we've ever
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: had to say.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: It top five. Yeah. Well you'll get to just keep
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: that status though. All right, you better keep fucking earning it, Emma.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: All right, this is one day at a time. What
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: have you done for us lately. Okay, yeah, your good
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: deeds expire very quickly. Let's let's keep it going. Chop chop.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I've got about twelve pages of trivia, all right,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: broken down into many different categories by The Times one
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: star reviews the placebo effect gone wrong. Oh, fun, dreams
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that make you go hmm, this is great. Where does
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: self help books ever written?
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So these are all great, But today we're gonna start
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: with host trivia. So host interests trivia. Oh okay, so
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: things that we're interested in. Oh wow, I don't even
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: know what I'm interested in. I know, I certainly don't
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: know what these people are learning about ourselves.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so here we go. Can you see the answers? No? Okay, great?
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Oh so you're playing, I'm playing.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm playing. Let's go two points off on
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: the fly, all right?
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Okay? Which activity is known as a good walk? Spoiled golf? Good?
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Oh man? Yeah, I'm want to jump in on golf
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Same it is.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I should get bonus. I feel like I should
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: get Yeah, I agree. I feel like if you're the
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: first out of the gun.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, are we just all going to give ourselves
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: whatever points. We feel like kind of.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Like Gulf seven years solid. Every once in a while
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: you just keep swinging and one goes over. I know, Hey,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stop in my head. I'm not going
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: to speak for the next I'll fuck it up eventually. Okay.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: In podcasting, what type of microphone is most commonly recommended
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: for capturing rich, clear voice quality.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with a sure Mic'm not going
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: to be a brand. It's probably gonna be some fucking
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: technical options. I'm just going to Yeah, that's true. Let
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: me let me brand. I was gonna say brand.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, wait on options, Okay.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I'll say condenser. That's what I think it's gonna be.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go with condenser as well. You're gonna
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: go on the fly, Jacob, you should your shot, all right? Cool? Cool, cool,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting for options.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, uh condenser? Wait can you see the options before
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I can? Okay, well, you get the bonus point.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're outlawed from bonus points.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Doesn't seem right, Yeah, it seems exactly right. Okay, no
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: more bonus points, don't do the fly thing anymore?
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Even Okay, there you go. They condenser, ribbon dynamic levelier.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Fuck, I'm gonna say dynamic.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: French one level leer. That just sounds like kind of Ye,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: it's lovely. A was that it? I got it right? No?
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I was like, what is a condenser?
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I already guess it's definitely a dancer? What is it?
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: According to Emma, it's a dynamic microphone? I disagree. So
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: we all got it wrong. Did you say? What did
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I say? I don't know? What was C dynamic?
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: That's what I said.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: That's what I remember. Wait, what was B? You know
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about it?
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Rewinded Nick?
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Women are hysterical. Who can know what they really want?
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: I know a lot about my career, But we're not
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: guessing out.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: We were in distress on that last question. I think
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: we need to give ourselves back one on that. I
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: think neither of us was in a position to put.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: All right, there we go.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Uh, what is the maximum proof bourbon? What is the
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: maximum proof bourbon can enter the barrel during the aging process?
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: It was the maximum proof that he can enter the barrel? Yeah, okay,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: all right, Well we're not guessing off the fly, so
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: give us the yeah, one hundred proof, one.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: One sixty the maximum again, proof one twenty five, one
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: fifty one sixty.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Proof one fifty.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's one guess, and I'll bet it
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: simmers down through that process. So I'll say, I'm gonna go, wait,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: enter the barrel.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: The highest it can enter, like the limit.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go one sixty because i want to be different.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what it is? One hundred? What's what's sixty? Man?
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I won fifty, so you're all at one fifty. I'm
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: at one sixty and one twenty five. Shit, damn, that's
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: were almost be okay. Last one, what should a homeowner
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: do if their toilet is constantly running after flushing? Jingle
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: the handles, Ignore it, it'll stop eventually.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Jiggle the handle.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: See replace the flapper in the tank.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Call a plumber immediately depends answer Jim, Yeah, yeah, my
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: son is plumbing into therapy business. I know this.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: This is the first thing.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I think. Jiggle the handle. But I'm sure that's in
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: there as a joke, So it's probably that flapper. Yeah,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: replace the flapper. Yeah it's flapper.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: It is replaced the flapper. I just did that last week.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: My rent I put in a work order and the handyman.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Just like like five days went by, never called me back,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: and then I'm like, I'm looking at this and like
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I know, I like, I know I can. I'm a renter,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to do this, but it's like, this is
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: a five dollars piece.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I can have this done in two minutes. Yeah. Yeah,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And so finally I just did it myself. Do you
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: send the receipt to the owner? Though? No, I just
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: I just went on about my day. But you should
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: passive aggressively send the receipt for the five dollars ye,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: and your time.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Hundred dollars labor from the rent.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, itemized that ship? Get it? Should? Oh that
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: would have been great idea. All right? So who's in
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: the lead? I don't know. I feel like Jacob is
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: sure that first.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: One he got, I got dynamic.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Did you though Whitney got dynamic?
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know that anything in the lead unless we
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: count the bonus points.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not like we can actually go back.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I think you might be right. Yeah, fine, I think
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Whitney's in the lead without bonus points. Okay, all right, whatever.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Thinking about aging and death, Hello, I've written in before about.
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: As it somebody thinks that dynamic microphones are better than
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: condenser mics or podcasting.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you have not You're you've been distracted ever
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: since that image.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just fundamentally disagree with that.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so that's one strike against our interne Yeah.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't want to know what happens to you
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: get to two strikes. That's well, that's right, two strikes,
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: you get a verbal warning.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we need to write a progressive discipline policy
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: for em and no need to. We need a fucking
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: fine reason. Seven runnings. That's a verbal reprimand then suspended
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: without the pay you already don't get, but it's symbolic.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I've written in before about various things. Thank you for
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: your thoughtful discussion each and every time. I tried to
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: write a short letter and thought I did a good
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: job today, but you might want a coffee and a
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: snack to make it through this one. Today I wanted
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: to ask your thoughts about struggling with fears about getting
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: older and eventually dying, particularly around one's birthday. This time
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: of year is hard for me. Over the past weekend,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: it was my birthday. The last few years I've had
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: trouble feeling good about my birthday. My birthday reminds me
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: that time is marching forward and that I don't know
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: how long I or any of us have. The last
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: few years, my birthday usually featured at least one day,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: if not more than, one day where I was pretty
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: depressed about getting older, like can't get out of bed
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: or being brought to tears depressed. I've had trouble planning
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: positive things to my birthday and just feel dread around it.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: This year, I did something different by buying tickets for
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: a festival on the day of my birthday. While it
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: was hard to talk myself into making a commitment at first,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun. I think that was
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: very positive for me. I didn't really talk about it
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: being my birthday on my actual birthday, except with my
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: parents during the obligatory birthday phone call. It was a
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: pretty good day. This is the first birthday and a
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: long time that I've actually enjoyed. However, the Friday before
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: and the Monday after I had some difficult moments and feelings.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: On Friday, when I was clocking out, my coworker told
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: me they wished me a birthday, A good birthday, weekend.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: They asked if I was turning thirty. I said yes,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: and they chuckled and said, you're becoming an old man.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I gave a half hearted chuckle as I left, but
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: the whole drive home I felt like I was going
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: to burst into tears, to the point that I considered
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: pulling over. When I got home, I felt compelled to
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: lay down and be sad alone for an hour. I
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: had a similar feeling to a lesser degree on the
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Monday after my birthday, Although I don't remember what prompted it,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I just remember being on the edge of tears again
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: because I felt like my life was just shrinking before
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: my eyes. I'm afraid of getting old. I'm afraid of
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: what could have happened to my body as I get older. Well,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: I get an abilitating condition. My wife is two for
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: four on grandparents with severe dementia, and a third one
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: had difficult cancer battles that ultimately got them. Is that
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: a struggle we will have two? Will I get to
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: the point where I'm alive but so afflicted I can't
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: enjoy it anymore? Will there be a day where my
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: wife looks at me but can't recognize me? I think
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: about death a good bit. I'm deeply afraid of dying.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I think that's normal, but around my birthday it becomes
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: more difficult. I like my life, I like being alive
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: most days, and I'm scared of what happens next. I
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: don't know what will happen if I die. I had
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: a really difficult discussion with my therapist last week about
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: all of this, and I anticipate a similarly difficult discussion
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: during my visit with her tomorrow. Last time, she asked
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: me to focus on ways that I'm currently being life
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: affirming and to think about any down the road things
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: that would be life affirming for me that I can
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: work towards. She also wants me to write down my
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts about getting old or dying as they come,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: so I can think about them calmly and so we
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: can discuss them later. I thought the visit itself was
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: also a good exercise, because I haven't really talked deeply
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: about these issues with anyone else. It felt good to
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: express it and cry it out for what I feel
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: like was the first time. So I guess what I'm
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: asking is, is there any is if anyone here has
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: had a similar difficulty with birthdays, getting older, or thoughts
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: about dying one day, and if we have any thoughts
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: on facing these issues. I know we can't avoid or
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: fix them, but can we make peace with them? Thanks
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Matt from Arlington, Arlington, Texas. I think it's Arlington, Jamaica. Yeah, yeah,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Arlington Cemetery because he's.
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: So old, that's right.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I hope that helped, Matt. Yeah, let's talk about condenser.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: This is have y'all ever had issues this week?
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Me fucking this? Last week? I was doing this. I
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: was doing this to myself last week and belize, No,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say week before. There, let's all feel
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: sorry for change. Jesus here. I changed it from this
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: week to last week.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: That's a big swing for no.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Like I had, I had a day the other week
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: where I was like, man, I'm I'm pushing fifty, Like
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I'm on the early end of forties right now, but like, yeah,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: it's coming, yeah, Like it's it's closer than than thirty. Yeah, right,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: And like I'm like, I'm I'm forty three, Like I'm
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like I'll be fifty before I know it, you know,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: just time time starts speeding up and everything too. Yeah,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: and uh and yeah, I did not like it.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: It's the first time in my life that it kind
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: of occurred to me that I was I'm going to
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: hit an age that I'm like, Oh, I don't I
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: don't like that.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I don't like the sound of that, right, yeah, yeah,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: which I think is I mean, a completely natural for
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: all humans, right, And I think typically you tend to
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: see it on the other side of twenties, right. I
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: think a lot of times in twenties, there's a lot
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: of exciting things happening in a person's life. There's a
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: lot of life milestones and developments. Age isn't as visibly noticeable.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: And then once you kind of get into those thirties
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: and forties and fifties and writer just hit thirty. I
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: think there is like a very common experience of existential dread.
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: I've known many people that when they had that thirtieth
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: birthday that really hit them hard.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: My thirtieth beat me the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah, that
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: was a very very long one. And I mean this
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: is something that I went through and I haven't been
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: dealing with it as bad in recent years, but man,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: I went through this at a very young age, like
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: because I discovered like deep philosophy at a young age,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: weirdly and just liberty. Yeah, no, this is pre liberty.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Liberty fixed it all by telling Jesus loved me. But
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: before that it was pretty dark. And like I got
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: into like, like I joked earlier about like French existentialism,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: but no, I fucking did. Like, and once you get
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: into like Camu and Satra and stuff, and like you
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: start experiencing like so there is no point, there is
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: no purpose and death is inevitable, and like it really
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: becomes this thing that I think is the number one
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: thing all humans have to wrestle with, and I think
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: it's one of the more fascinating things about Homo sapiens
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: as a species, like the light of consciousness that is us, right,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: the very first thing that consciousness illuminates is its own demise,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: like the fact that you will die, the fact that
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: everybody dies, and like that had to be the very
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: first things we discovered as we like became conscious beings.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: And then of course you think about like religion and
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: all these attempts to try to answer that or solve
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: that or or try to make something permanent. So it's like,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: don't worry it doesn't end. Just kidding, you know, it
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: just seems to end, and there's some kind of comfort, right.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Humans have been reacting to this shit for as long
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: as I think we have been humans. I think it
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: was the very first crisis of the conscious mind. I
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: really think it's fascinating.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Ship No, I think, And that's where kind of probably
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: the concept of an afterlife comes into play, Like Ricky
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Gervais's movie The Oh, the lying mention of lying, you know,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: like where his mom is dying and he's like his
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: first line he yeah, his first live.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: He comes up with heaven. Yeah, you know, as as
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: a way to like soften that, you know.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I uh, I don't. I don't
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: think about this. You're neutral about birthdays. And I remember
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: when we worked together at the rehab, one of them,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: but the most recent one, which I don't know why
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: we're fucking cagey about names at this point. It's been
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: a long time, but who gives fuck. We've been doing it,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: may as well keep doing it. But I remember my
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: birthday came around Tom's rehab. Tom, Yeah, remember Tom Tom
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Tom's Rehab. Yeah, Yeah, that was a great place. And
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and oil and Lube. Yeah, yeah, that great sandwich place.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: We're the best rehab plays on the block and we'll
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: fix your watch.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: But yeah, like every birthday, I tend to get moros,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: which is why I fucking keep trying to veto my
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: birthday being in December and want to put it in July.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I want July one. Okay, we've been over this. I'm
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: very dedicated to this, and yeah.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be out of town then, yeah, I'm busy.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be watching.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: December birthdays blow. But I remember I was pretty like
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: low energy and like discourage and Nick had come be like, hey, man,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: you're okay. You seem like, yeah, flat tire emotionally, stop
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: being a bitch. I think it was exactly yeah, And
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, dude, I just get really morose
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: for my birthday. And I was like, you ever get
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: like that?
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: Man?
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Just like you were like you're aging, and like just
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: life's happening. It's all happening really fast. Like every year
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: you're sort of reminded of, you know, things that you
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: aspire for but maybe won't get, or like you're getting
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: closer to those bad years because like you're not always
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: gonna have good years, Like youth is associated with health
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: and so like there is steadily a percentage of the
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: human life span that is more plagued with challenges. And
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't like those people that talk about
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: saving all their money for like their retirement and they
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: scrimp and save and never make any memories. Then you
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: get to retirement and you have millions and all you
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: realize is like you want a warm chair to sit in,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Like that's all you care about, and you.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Can't do that thing.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't get out of your chair and do it.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: And I remember talking to Nick about that, and it's
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: like you ever think like that. I like went on
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: twenty minute fucking speech and you sat there. Yeah, he
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: listened to me. He gave me a good hearing. And
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: then he's like yeah, and I was like you know
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, right, And he's like no, no,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: I don't. It's like, really, are you a robot? Like
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: you're just a fucking have this? No.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: I just I think I don't know, like my my
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: perception of getting older has changed, I because like here's
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: the thing, Like I remember there was a moment.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Living in in Iowa.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: We lived in a college town, right, and so lots
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: of college students everywhere. And I remember at one point
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: like going out to eat and it was Marguerite and
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: I at this like Mexican restaurant, and so all of
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: the college students were there and I'm just sitting there
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: in the booth eating and they're, you know, right next
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: to me, and I'm like, God, they're fucking obnoxious.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: I just had this like awakening and then I just
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: kind of realized, like, oh, well, that's what I was
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: like in my early twenties. And at this point I'm
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: not much removed. I'm in my late twenties, right, you know,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: but I see a huge difference there. And then I
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: get into my thirties and then I look back at
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: people in their late twenties and I feel like, oh, yeah,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: I've matured a lot. I like the way that I
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: see the world, right. And then as I got older,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: I continue to appreciate getting older and what comes with
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: getting older, as opposed to focusing on what could go
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: wrong and like, oh I could get sick, or oh
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: you know, I could you know, throw out my back,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: or I could do all these other things, because that's
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: not Getting older doesn't mean that that's going.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: To happen either.
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I mean people in their twenties aren't taking care of
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: themselves and they're getting injured just like anybody else, Like
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: if you take care of yourself, I know, people in
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: their fifties, sixties, Like one of the guys I golf with,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: like he's still he's in his sixties, you know, and
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: he still gets around fine.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: And I think you have an interesting perspective on this, though,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: because you are in a smaller percentage of humanity that
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: is quite fit and is like I'm not though, like
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: but here's the thing. But here's the thing.
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: You are quite fit, quite quite.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not that I'm not with this.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Like you go to pick up a box, like you
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: go outside to pick up a Amazon box.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: Text, sorry, you finish your story because you're just reminding
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: me a text like two days ago with my friends.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you go to pick up something, You're like, fuck,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: why can't I get this? And you realized like I'm
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: losing strength.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Or just like slept yeah, literally, like this is the
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: worst pain ever. Went to the doctor, like it seems
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: like you pulled a muscle. She's like no, no, this
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: isn't that. And then like realize the next I think
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: I fucking.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Pulled a muscles, right, yes, and so like weird shit
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: does happen just with aging. There's this like decay and
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: it's like you do I think she's.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Like I thought I had more time.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, you go. I can't tell you
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: how many people I've talked over the years that are
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: like going to their doctor to figure out what's wrong
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: and they're like, something's wrong. I'm just noticing I have
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: less energy. I'm noticing I'm more fatigued, and like the
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: doctor just has to break it to them and it's like, hey, aging,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: it's just aging. You know whoever doesn't happen to though? Nick?
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: Nick, Yeah, you tell.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: That story like it's so weird. I'm stronger every day
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: like then the day was before. It's nuts.
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: Understand, it's extremely fit, quite sure get it?
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we get it.
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: You're making your your t's day exactly Lane style jumping
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: jacks right now.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't appreciate that where Jack l Lane.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah I will.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: But but but like it doesn't have to be that way,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Like you can take care of yourself and and you
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: can like it doesn't have to be miserable like you can,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: you can be active, you can take care of yourself,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: and then these things don't have to necessarily happen.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Number one. That's okay.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: So that's my first point. You know what My first
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: point actually was like if if if I realized that
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: my thirties actually were better than my twenties, then maybe
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: my forties all have the same perspective.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: You were one of the other. Maybe my fifties will
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: have the same. You have consistently spoken this way, and
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: I just want you to know you are the outlier
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: and it is, but you're You're consistent. This has consistently
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: been true for you for years and years and years.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: I remember whenever you you turned forty and I was like,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: how are you doing, buddy, And you were like great,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, is this is this like
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: a mask? Like you know you can open me man,
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: And You're like, no, I really don't give a fuck.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to aging. And I was like really,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: and like no, you ironically have had that position all along.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I'm looking forward to it. I just
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I don't fear it. Okay, Yeah, I hear the rebreak,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, there's going to be things that at some
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: point eventually I'm going to have to not do, but
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: like every.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: But not for a very long time, exactly because of
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Nick's fitness five years old. The abs are a great example.
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: At some point, I'm gonna have to stop towing eighteen
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: wheelers with this rope, yeah, and pulling my teeth.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: The abs are a great example, Like, that's something I've
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: had to let go. That's that's not going to happen.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: I'm forty three, I'm not going to have have abs. Okay,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: that's ridiculous.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: I don't want them exactly.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, hypothetically, could I do it? Sure? I could, Yeah,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: I could.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: I don't want to know, because getting ABS at twenty
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: three and getting ABS at forty three are two very
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: different things.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you like the rest of us are like,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: I can't lift boxes, and he's like, I just I've
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: made peace that I'm not gonna get reds. So I
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: guess we all get it right, We're all just sipping
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: from the same pond.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: But also, the only guys that I know that get
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: ABS in their forties, there's one group of guys that
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: get abs in their forties.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Recent divorce, you get that divorce weight off.
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Like those are the guys like they went
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: they just went to a bad divorce yea, and they
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: get abs revenge body exactly right, yeah.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Or divorce empty apartment shredded. I'm thinking more. I'm thinking
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: more revenge that ye no.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: But like every decade, I just I just kind of
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: accept that, Like what you're what I pictured my thirties
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: would look like when I was twenty. Yeah, once I
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: got in my thirties, I was like, oh, yeah, this
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: is not what it I thought it was going to be. Right,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: it doesn't feel any different to me. And what I
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: pictured my forties was going to look like when I
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: was in my thirties. Now I get into my forties
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, this doesn't this isn't isn't bad either, Okay,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Like so it's it's just realizing that, like the problem
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: isn't me aging. The problem is my perspective. So if
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: my perspective is always, oh my god, my fifties are
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: going to be terrible, yeah, well my forties weren't and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: my thirties weren't.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when adjusted expectations, just like you said, like, I'm
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: not shooting for abs. I'm shooting for fitness and health
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: or you know, biceps and stuff.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: I wanted to knock get winded when I go up
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: and down the stairs.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: And I want to I want to, you know, take
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: care of these guns.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all me.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't want to go off my shirt size.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: I don't want to buy clothes.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Seriously, I want to get as big as I can
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: while still not feeling like I can still take that
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: center seat on a Southwest floor.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: I don't want my shoulders to get too big. I
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: love it, but I can do it time. No, But
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: I think that's part of it, you know.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: The other thing to like as far as like death,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, my philosophy on that is it's gonna happen.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Why am I gonna Why am I going to waste
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: my living time focusing on something that's inevitable and I
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: have no control over. I can spend all day tomorrow
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: worrying about what it's going to be like to die,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, I will be
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: no more knowledgeable, I will be no more prepared. I'm
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: going to be in the exact same position I was
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the day, I will have just
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: wasted a day.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, I'll just be one day older, right. So.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: And the other thing too, is like I like Mark
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Twain had a quote about this, something about like because
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: he didn't he didn't believe in an afterlife, and somebody
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: asked him about, like, you know, fear of non existence
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: after death? Are you afraid of non existence? And he
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: said I didn't, something to the effect of, I didn't
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: exist for a millennia before I was born, and it
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: didn't inconvenience me in the slightest.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Just kind of the same thing as like, Okay, well
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: if if eighteen ninety five didn't affect me at all, right,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: then why would twenty ninety five, right, you know, it's
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: the same thing.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: I like that, Yeah, I am. I never really had
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: thoughts on aging or anything like that. And for women
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: in particular, I think that thirty is like a big
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: one because it is when you start to see aging
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: signs and societies trying to convince us not.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: To ae buy you a few less free drinks. Me
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: like you stops, I can get The construction workers aren't
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: saying as.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: Much mean to go the bar out.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I'm an old man. I don't get a shift of
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: when you're twenty.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: But I really and truly, up until literally the day
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: I turned thirty, was like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: I don't see why age, like the number matters. But
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: then on the day I turned thirty, or you know,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: within the days after, I was like, wow, it does
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: feel different. It's kind of similarly to I described like,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: and I this made It's probably just me in this room,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: but that's fine. Like the day I got married, I
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: was always like Peter and I dated for a long
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: time before. I didn't see why things would be different
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: getting married. But there is a different vibe, like it
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: changes the vibe and really I don't know what it is,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: but that's kind of how I felt turning thirty. I
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, this is kind of like weird.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know why I feel uncomfortable with being.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Thirty about forty.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: I'm not forty yet.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: So I don't know saying that's right, but I'm dreading it.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: Well, So that's the thing.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, sim is going to be unbear I was already
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: we need a plan, yeah, no, we all we need
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: to start dealing with the shit now thirty eight and
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: so I turned thirty nine. Long, yeah, yeah, this show
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: will be over by that.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: Take the unders like you're coming up. But I was
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: pretty sure you're turning thirty nine. Yeah, I just turned
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: thirty eight, So I was like, oh, well, forty is
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: getting close, kind of like Jacob said, oh gosh, we're
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: we're creeping up there, and it's the same thing. I'm like,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: no big deal, no big deal. But if I really
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: sit in that, and like if I were to turn
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: forty right now, it would feel a little weird, Like, right,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: I don't like it. I don't know, is that really
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: just because society says don't get older? Like what's going
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: on there? I kind of really like to dig around
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: in that, But I.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Think I don't know. I'm like the part that I
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: can relate to is just like the thirties are over.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: It's more like that it's sad.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like, oh that piece of my
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: life is gone now and it's gone forever.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: I'll never be able to say I'm thirty blank.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: So that piece is gone, like, so I can relate
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: to that. That felt kind of weird.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, like a weirdness.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Remember that time that we went to that bar after
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: the night's game and we hung out with those bros.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: And they started asking me how old I was, and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: suddenly you were very like upset. Oh I'm still upset.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: I think about it every day.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: Wait what did they How old did they think Jim was?
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Because we were talking to them, we just struck up
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: this conversation and we got along.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Really, I can't remember. Yeah, oh no, it was great.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: Like we This wasn't an old no old man.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my re tied friends.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: That's that's probably why that group clicks with you, is
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: because they make you feel young.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: That might be. I think it's because it is. I
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: don't think it's just that. I think also like part
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: of they tolerate me pretty well, like I think whatever
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: my my thing is, they can't get away. They're just
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: like a fuck it. I mean generation, I can handle
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: this jackass to be fine, Hitler. Yeah, we can handle
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Joe Jovin. I punched Nazis in the face. I can
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: deal with this.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Well, that's how old I am like young Vietnam people.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: That's almost mind. Oh my god.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, with these bros.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: We went to a bar was a hockey was after
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: hockey game, everybody's wearing the jerseys. We're having a good
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: time and we get chatty with the group of dudes
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: and like just good energy. Everybody's had a few so
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: lots of loud voices, making jokes, talking trash, all that
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: fun stuff. We're getting along really really well with them.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: And at some point, like we're holding court, you know,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: it's and this is what sometimes happens is so like
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: Nick and I are there, We've got a circle of
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: like people around us. We're getting it going, We're having
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: a great time at the bar, and at some point
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: one of them, like Nick breaks away and he's got
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: like a little side conversation going, and one of the
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: dudes that was talking to me comes over to Nick.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: He goes, how old is your friend or something like that.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: So no, so what happened was we were talking and
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: somehow like it it it dawned on me that they
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: think I'm their age, okay, And it was very clear
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: to me that like they're twenty four or twenty five.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: They asked me directly. I remember they because I was like,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: that's a weird question, because they asked me. Yeah.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Somehow, it's like and and I was like, I told him,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, yeah right, that's always the answer. Oh it's
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: like how are you something like yeah, ask him, yeah, yeah,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: how old is him? So they come over to me
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: and they asked me all day. I'm like, oh, you know,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: I think I was thirty seven at the time, probably,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: and so I was like, oh, thirty seven, Like what
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: that's crazy? And I'm like is it because like I
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: thought we were all here because we like beer and hockey.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't know that that was like an age
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: so late.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: For you, Like, I mean.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: Your response is just wrong twenties. But like the response
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: they had would have been appropriate if I said I'm
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: nineteen and I snuck in here, like then she'd be like,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: oh shit like that. They were like, oh shit, I'm like, bro,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: you know I can legally drink here right, like thirty seven,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: Like also like I needed to come here, like after
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: the Early Bird special.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ age is interesting at that age. I've realized
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: working with clients in their early twenties. I had a
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: young client once say they had started dating somebody who
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: was They're like, oh, well they're they're a bit older
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: than me. And I was like, oh no, this this
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: person's like twenty, like they're going to say thirty or
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: something like they're kind of older, I don't know, and
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: they're like, they're twenty four and I was like, you're
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: twenty was like, what do you mean they're a bit older.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. It really checked me
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: and like how we perceive age at like twenty to twenty,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: Like you said twenty four to twenty eight.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Same, you're stilling like a high schooler. You're like difference
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: between fourteen and eighteen.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: Huge?
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah absolutely, but yeah, I think I I'm
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: probably I know you're shock too. This more similar with
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: nick I. That was gonna be my advice too. It's
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: a little bit like I took this training recently on
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: OCD and this has stuck with me for just general
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: advice too, something to try if you're open to it,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: and it's sort of like radical acceptance, but it's like
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: just sitting in that uncomfortability. And one of my favorite
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: phrases I took away with that is what we resist
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: persist And so if you're resisting even like the idea,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: I'm aging like, I'm thinking about it so much, I'm
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: trying to avoid it. But that's me thinking about and
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: every time I try and soothe myself, Oh, I have
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: plenty of years left, It'll be okay. All this stuff
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: trying to ease that anxiety, it almost like fuels it
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: to just cycle back quicker instead of just like I'm
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: going to die tomorrow. Like she literally has to say
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: that or something worse. In this training, she was like,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: pick out somebody close to you, you know, Jim. Jim's
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: gonna die today. And it's like, your anxiety feels really
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: high when you say that if I'm sure Jacob, but.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: I will hasn't cleared. It'll probably take a few business
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: days if he tries to start his car after.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: But she starts with something extreme where yeah, you're out
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: like a ten, you know. Or at the time, I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: was like Peter's going to die to it like that's
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: just the most horrific thing you can think of or imagine.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: And the idea is that, yeah, that could happen, like
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: it might, but we're just gonna sit in that because
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: we're giving our thoughts so much power in those situations.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: So it sounds like you're giving those thoughts and feeling
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: so much power and control over your life. It's almost
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: like owning that. All right, I'm gonna sit in that,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: like my wife's gonna get dementia, right.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: It's tough to sit through. But I think just sitting
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: in that, a lot of people get dementia, Like, what
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: can you do to kind of prepare for that? Peter
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: and I don't have children, we don't plan on it,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: so we plan in other ways for our end of life,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: like what can you control to an extent? And then
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: the rest you have to kind of just accept and
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: sit in that, like we don't know the future, right,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: And absolutely agree with what I guess Mark Twain said,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: and that's that I do have that fear of the
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: action of dying, right like those thirty seconds or a
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: few minutes whatever that happens at the end of life
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: that I imagine happened. That sounds absolutely terrifying. After that,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: you're just non existent. That's the good part. You're done.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: You won't fucking care. It won't matter. It's not even
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: I won't care. There's just nothing. You're just gone, in
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: my opinion, So I.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Like that, and I think there's a fray I love
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: that resist persist. I'm gonna totally steal that for CD work.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: That is so great.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: It was awesome.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Oh that's such a Yes, that's just so perfectly encapsulated
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and you can get them to hold on anyway.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: But like another thing I like to say a lot
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: is there are challenges that are not my job, their
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: future gym's job, right, So like if an illness comes
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: or like, and this is something that as a person
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: who lives with really tough chronic anxiety, if you're not careful,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: you can get into this frenzy of anticipating everything that
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: could ever go wrong, trying to prepare for it, trying
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: to you know, like when flu or and cold season comes,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: I go to the goddamn pharmacy and spend like two
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars like refreshing every single thing in every like
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: health component. We have to make sure I'm ready for
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: anything that could go wrong. And some of the shit's
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: like really bizarre and random shit like I bought like
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: a finger splint, so I'm like, well, never, I don't
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: think we have one of those. You know, we probably
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: have fucking finger splints.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: Have a thirteen year old client, just.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: You're gonna be culling my ass. I will not, but
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: I have to put myself in check sometimes because that's
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: around myself, you know, Jim, your job is not to
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: prepare for, anticipate, and live in all future crises. One
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: day the Earth is going to spin into the fucking sun,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: and every human you have ever heard of, every bone
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: ever buried here, is going to be eviscerated down to
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: its atomic level, and it will be as if none
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: of this ever existed, and it will not have existed
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: way longer than it did exist. And so everything you
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: think matters has a shelf life. It will expire, All
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: things will be disassembled to their particle components. And so
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: whenever you think about, like all the things that could
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: go wrong, you need to think so far beyond that
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: to realize how irrelevant all this is. And whenever you
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: get lost in that like great ocean of relevance, you realize,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: and this is coming back to like existentialist philosophy, the
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: only thing that can have real meaning is now. And
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: that's freeing in a sense. It's terrifying it first, yeah,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: but then once you go through that terror and you
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: get to the other side, you start to feel a
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: sense of peace and acceptance that all that matters is
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: what's in front of me, what is now, what is present,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: and you start to live for today and trust that
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: future you will handle those challenges when they arrive and
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: they will be capable of them. If it's seven years old,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: you ask yourself, oh my god, I'm so scared to
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: learn how to drive. What's it going to be like
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: when I'm in my first car accident? The advice you'd
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: give that seven year old is horrible, horrible, But we'd say,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: seventeen year old you, you're going to know what to do. Yeah,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: seventeen that's not seven year old used job. That seventeen
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: year old used job, And seventeen year old you is
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: going to have training and maturity and lots of road experience.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: They will figure it out, but there's nothing that seven
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: year old you can do about it. And the same
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: thing is true today. Rter you're at thirty year old you,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: eighty year old you is going to have different realities
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: to face. Eighty year old you will be prepared for
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: those realities by the extra fifty years of life that
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: they're going to have on top of you. You can
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: trust their expertise, you can trust their wisdom, you can
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: trust their experience, and you can trust their readiness to
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: take on some of those challenges. If you could talk
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: to twenty year old you and they were like, I'm
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: so scared that one ed there's gonna be like some
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: weird global pandemic, And thirty year old you was like,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: well there was Oh my god, what can I do
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: to prepare for when I don't worry about it? Well? No,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: what help do you need from me? None? There was
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: literally not a fucking thing you could do that could
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: have helped me. It happened, and I had to just
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: see it, read it, adjust to it, and I learned
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: and became different every day, and I got through the crisis.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: You didn't need to waste eight years of your life
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: preparing me for that.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I do say though, I do think though that
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: this again kind of goes back to partially part of
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: my fitness mentality.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that back up I was worried about. Yeah,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: we're starting to get too deep about your.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: No, but like the idea of like, here's one thing
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: I actually can do for future me, right, I can
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: take care of myself. Sure, that's you know, like I
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: can give my I can give Nick at fifty five
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: a decent shot right at at you know, reddit abs
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: if if you know Nick at fifty five wants to
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: go water skiing, right like, okay, I can maybe give
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: future Nick that gift of being able to be active, right,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: you know, I can take care of myself. I can
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: do the things that I need to do, as opposed
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: to getting to that point and being like, oh man,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: past Nick really fucked me over, right, it would have
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: been nice if he wasn't such a you know, careless dick. Yeah,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: you know, if you could you know, so.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: Like there's a reasonable right sizing of it. Yeah, if
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: you become anxious and preoccupied with it.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: I guess what I'm saying is like, give your future
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: you the tools, right, don't do future used job.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: There you go, that's it. Yeah, there's some things you
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: can avoid, so like getting involved with the mafia. So
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: then your car didn't get blown up off flight over there.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take quick break and when we come back,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: we're just talking about was that the last question? Every
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: week that is work lose more and more respect for
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: We're talking about dealing with negative thoughts. Why the fuck
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: not you're listening to therapy? I can't control come. Those
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: are the questions.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior Men's,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Kayla Lansbury, Kevin chamberlat, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: lib Hey Yo, and Andrew lang Meade. If you would
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: like to sponsor this incredibly negative show to become a
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: therap producer a Patreon dot com slash there.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: All right, next tot of questions here? Let me here
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: we go?
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: In soccer or football, what is the primary responsibility of
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: a player in the sweeper position, a role not commonly
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: used in modern formations, but known for organizing the defense?
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Is it scoring goals, marking the fastest opponent, providing defensive
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: cover behind other defenders, or taking corner kicks?
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: I like c answer, all.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: Right, that's why this question is here. Yeah, I forgot
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: there was a theme I'd see a blade sweeper. I
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: just remembered a joke. Do you guys ever see that
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Onion article where it's like scientists make breakthrough by using
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: sign language to teach an ape that he's going to die.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: It's really funny articles. We finally rode through, like we
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: finally mastered enough communication to explain to him the existence
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: is going to end. I've not seeing that, but I'm
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: very happy with you, okay.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: Which golfer famously won the nineteen ninety seven Masters by
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: a record twelve strokes, becoming the youngest winner of the
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: tournament at the time.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas, Phil.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Nicholson, Phil Nicholson, Tiger Woods or Arnie Palmer.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Oh geez, well, I would assume Tiger Woods is ninety seven?
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: You said, yeah, Tiger Woods?
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: Who they were?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: Sorry, repeat the question won the nineteen ninety seven Masters
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: by a record of twelve strokes, becoming the youngest winner
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: of the tournament.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: I missed that part. It's Tiger, it is Tiger. Yeah.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: I was like, he's just the best.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: I missed youngest winner. If i'd heard that the first time,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: I would have known that. Which Disney Pixar film centers
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: around a journey through the afterlife, exploring themes of passion, purpose,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: and mental well being. I know this one, mister Toad's
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: wild r It's.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Scent of a woman? Is it Coco Soul? Onward Ratituy?
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen Coco, so I'm gonna guess Soul.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen uh Coco Soul? Or the third one Ratitude.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: I seen, I've seen Ratitude. That's what I'd saying. Pick
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: that one that so I know it's not Ratituy. I
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: think it's Coco all right, Soul.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll be honest. I highlighted it and it is
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: not what I thought it was. I was gonna say, Coco, okay,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: boy Scout, all right, Jim and Co is.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: About the watch it for Halloween time. So a movie
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: with ghosts in it is not. No. That one's about family, yeah,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: but it's in the afterlife he's exploring. When Coco is
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: about a kid who wants to be a musician and
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: his family's against it, and so then he has to
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: go into the afterlife and meet his family that would
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: have supported him a journey himself. I likeovery fucking rot.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: I saw Coco and I saw Soul. Yea, only the
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: music alone and rules I have. Soul is not that good.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: It was not. I didn't care. I love Coco. Yeah, Coco.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: Coco is on.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: That is the one that Trent Reznor did the music
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: for though Soul Soul, Yeah, I think I think he won.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: I think you want to Oscar for it. Actually, I
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: believe it. I mean it's like jazz. So yeah, last one?
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: What year was the boy were or was the boy
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: Scouts of America I founded nineteen oh five, nineteen ten,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenty, nineteen thirty five?
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: Who cares?
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: Ah B, Yeah, I was gonna say nineteen.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: I know it's that Lord guy, somebody Lord something, Jesus,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: that's Lord and Savior. All right, I'm not going last
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: or I'm not going that where you have to go,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: I'll go nineteen twenty. I think it's nineteen ten. I'm
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: going with twenty as well. I think it was around
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: the first nineteen ten? Would that be y.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: Undefeated?
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: All right? Good? Good questions there in turn, I like them.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: This is good. All right, let's end this show on
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: a high note. Dealing with negative thoughts. Dear pod therapy people,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: I want to start by saying thank you for spreading
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: awareness of mental health in such a wholesome and funny way.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Your podcast is a vast reservoir of knowledge, and I
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: look forward to listening each week. Makes me happy every time. Yeah.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: The gist of my question is how do I keep
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: myself from or deal with intrusive negative thoughts. I've written
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: a lot, so I'm providing a hopefully short enough summary
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: here with a longer letter at the end. I'm a
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: thirty three year old cisgender male living in the United States.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: My sister is twenty nine. We'll call her Tory, and
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: her husband will call him Trevor is twenty seven and
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: twenty eighth he.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: Or twenty eight whatever he gives me both.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: He is a very athletic person. He works out almost
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: every day, with an emphasis on body building. He rarely
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: drinks and does no drugs that I'm aware of. My
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: sister's husband, to put it bluntly, is a straight up
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: man child. He never takes responsibility for his own actions,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: but instead blames others and lashes out in anger. He's selfish, dishonest.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Is constantly looking at his phone while driving, which fucking
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: pisses me off since he drives my sister around, does
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: the bare minimum around the house, takes advantage of others,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: has shown no growth over the years. Is a one upper,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: a sore loser, interrupts conversations and constantly complains raw, that's
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: the bare minimum, bare minimum, ra that's the bare minimum.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of accusation, so I've provided
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: more con text in the longer letter. Attached. I love
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: my sister very much. We have a great relationship, but
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: I very much enjoy hanging out with her. However, if
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: we do hang out, this guy is always tagging along.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: I've told my sister how I feel about him, but
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: she basically shuts down or gets angry if I ever
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: say anything negative about him. She knows I'd rather not
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: hang out with him, but doesn't have the heart to
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: tell him, and frankly, I don't either. To be honest,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: neither my sister or I are good with confrontation, which
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: is another thing I know we need to work on.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: So I hang out with them both and genuinely show
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: him kindness. While doing so, I've come to accept that
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: they are married and that they are now a package deal.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: I get that if I want to hang out with
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: my sister, he is going to be around two. However,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: whenever I do hang out with them, I cannot help
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: but be plagued with constant negative thoughts afterward. Most recently,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: we attended a convention together with a couple of other friends,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: which was over the span of a few days during
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: which we all shared a house, and there are little
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: scenes that kept playing over and over in my head
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: of Trevor's behavior. This happens every time we hang out,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: and I know it's not healthy. I meditate daily with
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: a focus on love and kindness, and I try to
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: employ that sentiment to everyone around me, including Trevor. But
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: it's really difficult to feel that way after witnessing how
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: he acts, especially toward my sister, and it makes it
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: difficult for me to continue to employ a state of
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: well being When these negative thoughts are in my head.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I try to employ the mindfulness meditation that y'all have mentioned.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: I also constantly listen to podcasts. I'm currently going through
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: your backlog of memoirs, and typically try to stay busy. However,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: there are pockets at time where I'll be doing something tedious,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: like brushing my teeth, taking a shower, resting my head
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: on a pillow before going to sleep, and I'll catch
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: myself having these negative thoughts, and by the time I
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: realize and snap out of it, They'll have been going
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: through my head for several minutes already. Eventually, the thoughts
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: will lessen if there's a decent amount of time when
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: I don't see my sister and her husband, but they
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: always rear up when I do see them again, which
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: is exhausting and doesn't help me. I've seen a therapist
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: about once about a year ago, but didn't can sessions
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: as I couldn't afford it at the time. I did
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: just start a new job that has an EAP, which
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: I intend to make use of, but have admittedly procrastinated
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: getting that started. So my question is how can I
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: avoid or work through these negative thoughts? Are there any
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: techniques or mindsets that you know of that I'm not
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: already employing. Also, if you have any tips on talking
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: to my sister or her husband, I'd be grateful for
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: that too. Thanks so much. Y'all are truly wonderful and
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad I found your show, even though I
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to go to therapy one but
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: that one time. I've learned so much from you, and
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: you've helped me a lot in my own mental health journey.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: Go fuck yourself, Las Vegas, ps. Jim's my favorite. Just
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: kidding its Whitney. Oh.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 4: I want to jump back because that letter reminded me
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 4: and I forgot to say it in the last letter
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: about the life and getting older and everything. I have
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 4: found that meditating does help me kind of accept these
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 4: things that I that I can't change.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you use something specific for meditation, like an
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: app or anything, or.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 4: Just I just sit and sit and think and sit
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: and sit and ponder and sit and try to just
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 4: you'll find that acceptance.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: You tolerate, which goes back to what you had said
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Whitning about tolerating the discomfort that's eventually that actually is
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: good for you.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: Our brain is wired to finally accept things, at least
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: at a much lower level of anxiety initially.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, meditation is my second most often used answer, behind
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: fake it till you make it and of course booze.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: That's so difficult when somebody is married into the family
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 3: because that takes me back to again, if we're talking
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: about when you get married to someone, everyone says, oh,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: you're marrying the family or whatever, and I kind of
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 3: like didn't believe or didn't understand. I was like, oh, okay, yeah,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: but not really. I mean they're doing their thing. I'm
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: doing mine whatever, we're doing ours, But no, you do
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: you do? So this feels like a rough example of ye.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: Your and Trevor, for the record, sounds like a douchebag.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: I mean everything, and I think it's really hard whenever
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: it's like, I don't like how you treat my sibling
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: right like you're their spouse. I don't like you as
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: a person. I find you pretentious, and I don't think
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: I want to hang out with you, and we're not
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: a good personality match. But then on top of that,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: I don't like how you treat my sister, and I
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: have to watch and expect and like not meddle with that.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: But then we all like to socialize together, and then
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: I get an up close, you know, kind of view
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: of that man that fucking sucks. Yep, that'd be weird
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: as shit. I mean, those negative thoughts make a lot
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: of sense in that regard. I mean, obviously, writers been
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: Cagy did not necess ssarily give us into the weeds
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: of what these negative thoughts are, at least in letter one. Yeah,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: and you know, like not murderous or anything like that.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: It's just, man, I hate this person, you know, like
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: I just it'd be great if they weren't around, and
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: you know, wish that this was not a challenge I
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: had to deal with. I don't know, what do you
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: guys think? Is there a way to address these thoughts.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: Should they be addressed or is it really more about
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: like almost acceptance in a similar way that we accept
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: the reality of death, the reality of Trevor.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: It reminds me a bit of like abusive relationships, right,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: Like I'm going with the more common like stereotype here
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 3: where women are in the victim position and men are
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: dominating over them. But it's hard when you have friends
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 3: or family who are in those positions and you're like,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: you want to shake them, or you want to tell
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: them or whatever, just make them see things the way
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 3: you see it. But they're not going to right likely,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: like they either know they mentally they know I shouldn't
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: put up with this, but their feelings are a very
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: different thing, and you can't really argue with somebody about
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: their feelings. So they're like, I love this person, They're
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: great to me here.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's true too, And like I think for
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, we size up the relationships of
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: others and we think, gosh, you don't get it, Whitney.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: You're being mistreated. This guy's arrogant, this guy's an ass,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: this guy makes you do so much. You deserve better.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: You should stand up for yourself, And what we're not appreciating.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: Is he didn't hide all that shit. That's what she dated,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: That's what she got.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 3: Very true.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: She picked that. There's something about this that works for
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: her too, and she probably also complains about the things
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: that don't or the things that bother her. And I
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: think as therapists we see this a lot where when
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: a relationship comes in for help, a lot of times
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: we have to keep in mind they've already found homeostasis.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: We've been able to keep it together for a long time,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: and now they're having a disruption. I don't necessarily need
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: to tear everything down to the fucking concrete and try
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: to fix it all because they are happy enough to
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: make it work. And writer, that's something that we have
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: to remember as we show deference to your sister, and
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: as we tolerate that and maybe even soothe ourselves to
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: remind ourselves that she picked this. There's aspects of this
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: dude that she likes or tolerates or maybe even finds
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: charming or I think it's the I mean, I was
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: going to wonder how long it'd be till you brought that. Yeah,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: you know, because this guy's better so and you know,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: like he didn't give up on his dreams like you did,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: you know, like he achieved that.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you caught, in my opinion, writer, you have to
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: either accept that and spend time with them, or you
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 3: don't have to spend time with them. And you're like,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: that's all you're in control of You're only in control of.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: Your own Yeah, I kind of have that the same
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: thought too, of like not that kind of put it
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: back on your sister, Like you know, like if if she's.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: Like, well, why don't we hang out anymore? Well, you
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: know why we don't hang out any I don't really
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: writer telling sister I don't like your husband. We have beef.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: It's it's a really unfortunate thing because that puts your
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: sister in such a strange position, right, But.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: I mean he doesn't have to because having read the
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: second half of this letter, So the writer sends about
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: four more pages of letter here which I didn't put
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: in here, but having read through a lot of that,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: they've already had that conversation, Like she she already knows
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: that they that he doesn't like him, okay, and so
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: like at this point, he wouldn't have to have this
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: conversation with her. He could just be like kind of
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: start to withdraw.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: Well. I mean, yeah, writer put it in the main
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: letter that he has told sister this and she doesn't
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: know what to do about it. And I think that's
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: really tricky, right, because you can't get that back in
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: the bottle. Yeah, when you tell your any member of
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: the family, I don't like your partner, that's an issue
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: I feel like you get one chance at that. This
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: was a personal opinion on relationships. You get one chance
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 3: at a friend or family member telling them, Hey, I
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: don't like this dynamic or how they treat you. I
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: just need you to know that.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: Ye.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: They may hear you and say okay, great or oh
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: my gosh, that's messed up. Whatever. You kind of hash
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: it out, and then you don't really get to bring
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 3: it up again. You either have to phase yourself out. Yeah,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 3: if you're still trying to control that dynamic, it is
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 3: just going to destroy your relationship with that person. Yeah,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: to an almost irreparable point. My other kind of suggestion,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know if this was in the second part
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: of the letter, but is if I were you, I
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: know you aren't comfortable confrontation necessarily, but maybe just putting
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: in nudges there like here and there when he does
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: something rude to your sister in front of your when
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 3: you're all there for game night or whatever, and he
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: like rolls his eyes or does something where it's just like, hey,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: why are you rolling your eyes? Like I would just
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 3: call shit out, Like you don't even have to do it.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: You don't have to be rude about it. It's just
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: like if she if you know, your sister asked him
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 3: to do something and he like has an attitude about
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 3: like a just I think.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: All that's dangerous. Yeah, I'm on team. Don't bring that
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: up because it's not my job to please their relationship.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you how to treat me. But like if
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: I every time I'm around I have notes on how
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: you treat my sister, it's overstepping.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's overstepping. But it is, like it's
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 4: the it's the b writer be happy thing, Like you
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 4: can be absolutely correct every time you say something about Trevor, right,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 4: but like at some.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: Point your sister and you don't want to hear it anymore. Yeah,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: and like.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 3: They probably want to be over anymore.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: That too. At some point the sister's like, hey, stop, So, like,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: if you want to salvat sister, I think I think
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: for the sake of that.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she probably won't respond well to that. But I
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: think in general that is also your relationship. That's kind
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: of wine truth. I think, like we all have our
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: own relationships with each other. So you're dynamic with your
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: brother in law, that is your relationship. And if you
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: don't like something they're doing, you can say something.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: Does anybody see a move where writer talks to Trevor
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: one on one? And I don't know if there's an
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: airing of grievances or if it's somehow like a leveling
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: of the playing field of like listen, man, I've had
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: some tension with you. I don't know if that's come through.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: I don't want it to be simmering. I don't want
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: there to be awkwardness between us. I think that's fine.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: How do we feel about just it? Do you think
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: that's wise? Would you advise against that? What do you
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: think they should find? Well?
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: I mean yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: The therapy advice is always try to find Yeah, yeah,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: it's fine. Yeah, like go have some lunch and uh
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: you think so, just.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 3: Like a one on one manage the expectation there. The
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 3: goal is not to change Trevor in that sense, it's
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 3: just to share, and the.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 4: Goal is not to be And perhaps the goal can
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 4: just be like, how how are we going to behave
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 4: around each other going forward? Yeah, like we want our
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 4: we want you know, sister slash wife to be happy.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 4: How are we going to behavior on each other going
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 4: forward in the interest of of her happiness?
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: Like, how can we like we have to coexist? Right,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: how are we going to do that?
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: And well, he's going to say she is happy, I
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 3: make her happy.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: And that may and that might be that Yeah, well
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: that'd be useless. It also comes down to what would
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: you complain about, Like if you if you have a
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: whole list of reasons that you don't like somebody. I
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: don't like the airing of grievances as much. I don't
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: think that's very safe. No, no, no, no, that's like a
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: whole Yeah.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: I would just say, like I would keep it practical, Yeah,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 4: like talk about things going forward, disrespectful. Time we've had
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: you and I have had whatever issues in the past. Uh,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 4: let's bury that and let's let's figure out a way
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 4: to go forward.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't mind that. If you're snippy or
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: rude to each other, then then that's easy. Like then
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's a meeting to say, hey, look, we've
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: got in tents between each other. But if we're having
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: a meeting for me to privately talk to you about
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: how I disapprove of how you live your life or
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: who you are and your character, and that's useless. I
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: don't know how anything good comes up it. No, I
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: don't know. The guy's not going to change it and
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: be like, wow, you know what, I was really dedicated
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: to my whole lifestyle and who I was. But now
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: that I know it offends you, I'm going to Now
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: my spouse's brother has told me, yeah, that's not gonna do.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: No, I agree. I think that's where, in my opinion,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: the limit of that comes into play when the thing
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: is actually happening. And that's where I was like, oh,
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: call it up. But you're right, it sounds like a
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 3: lot of things. So where's the limit there?
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: So what can you cover?
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 3: Really? I think at the end of the day, you
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 3: either accept that and having been in a similar situation
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: and is this like you either accept it or you
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: pull away, and those are your two options.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: I think it is. I think a lot of times is,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: but it also comes down to this. Now, let's let's
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: zoom in on this idea of acceptance because that is
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: a skill, and I think that is something that the
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: therapist in his life is going to be really interested.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: And therapist isn't probably gonna say, Okay, here's how you
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: fuck Trevor over or correct him or change. They might
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: give you that advice that's what you want. You know
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: that we're not here to tell you what to do.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: We're here to tell you how to do it. But
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: you know, like if you said, Okay, look, I'm not
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: going to change Trevor, I'm not going to change their marriage.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to get my sister to agree with
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: me on something and therefore leverage against Trevor. I can
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: choose to accept them and him or not. So let's
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: let's take the path of acceptance. What's interesting about that
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: is those negative thoughts I think very quickly become ruminations,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: and now we find ourselves constantly coming back to God,
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: I hate this guy. He's so bad, he's so pretentious.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: Can you believe it? And I think that we've seen
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: this happen where it's it's not quite OCD, but is
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: obsessive and dominating thinking about being offended. We see it
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: with people that get really mentally ill about politics, and
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: they'll just be constantly obsessed about like everything in the
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: news cycle, like did you see what they did this week?
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: And you believe it? The country's going downhill? And you're like, hey,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: I need you to be able to let this go,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: and they're like, well, no, how could you ask me
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: to do that? It's real, it's happening. I'm not making
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: this shit up, like you're right, and this is again
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: right or happy, You're not going to be happy. So
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: we have to start to help this person detach from
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: the rumination and the negative thinking that's causing them to
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: spiral and become obsessive and distracted about this. That ultimately
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: is the path that's going to lead to acceptance in
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: their presence, but also peace when you're by yourself and
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: that you're not I mean, Trevor's living rent fucking free
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: in your head and I don't want that for you.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: Apparently rent free at the house as well.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: I'm reading through that.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, trying to read through some of it too.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, the more I read the more I'm just thinking, like,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: just step back, wait for them to get a divorce, reconnect, Like.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: Just give it time, let it simmer.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 4: Oh, and don't get super happy around your sister if
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 4: they if they split.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, it's just like that. Yeah, that's a practice.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: Are you okay? So like, yeah, you see other people,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: it's now a bad time to tell you that I
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: fucked them.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I found out the hard way. It does. It's
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: apparently not helpful when you tell a friend or someone
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: close to you, hey, if you decide to get a divorced,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: it's okay. They find that offense.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in my twenties, al right, I was allowed some fuck.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: Ups, right, you know, I'm here for you. I support you. Also,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: here's a number of a divorce Atorney, I've heard. He's
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: really great. He's expecting your call.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 3: My friends will be later. After they were divorced. They
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 3: were like, yeah, I was really upset about that at
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: the time. I get it now and it's okay.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you're so lucky you called it though.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: It did Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah it was.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: It was fucked up, and they just celebrated their I
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: wasted parents.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: Gosh. Yeah, your sister is. She's a grown adult. You
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: care about her, and it's really difficult to watch her
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: go through that and to watch someone be treated that way,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 3: especially how like not sly because it's open, but it's
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: not like very obvious, hurtful things. It's like it seems
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 3: like it is kind of like an eye roll. It's likely,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: you know, just a little bit rude to her or whatever.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 3: And so, man, those are really tough situations to navigate
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: and not just stew about and get worked up over.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: But your sister is capable of making her own decisions,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 3: and you just have to remember that, like, she is
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 3: choosing this, and you will be there to support her
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: if the situation changes, and maybe separate yourself because the
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 3: ruminating is just getting retriggered every time your intrever's presence
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: and he does some other bullshit in front of you.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 3: It's like right now, here we go again.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: It's like we have to inoculate against that influence, you know,
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: which is difficult. I mean, when somebody's like this embedded
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: in your life and is this difficult and you're affected
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: by the emotions of your sibling, it's not easy to do.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: But I'm really glad you're going to start doing the
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: EAP work. I really like doing that therapy. And as
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: the writer said, wow, I feel better writing about this.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: I feel better talking about this like this is good. Yeah,
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: no shit like this is why we want people to
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: go to therapy, man, once you do the emotional yoga
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: of expressing it there because when you language this stuff,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: you're metabolizing the energy associated with it, and a lot
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: of times you come out lighter and you come out like,
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: you know what, I don't need to think about this
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: asshole for the next twenty three hours. Like I did
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: it intentionally once and we talked it out and I vented.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: I was pissed, and I got some coaching on it
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: and some commiseration, and you know what, I feel like
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: I can write size that going forward. That is the
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: emotional yoga of therapy. Sometimes it isn't always epiphany work
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: or some kind of elation or some kind of cool skill.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it is coming in and just processing out loud
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: and metabolizing the energy so it doesn't show up in
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: other places. So I'm really excited for that writer. I
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: think that's something you really got to do. Yeah.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: I mean the more I read into this, the more.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: It's I do see kind of Jim's point of like
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: she's getting something out of this, like this is this
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: is uh like I I kind of see here, like
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: her needing to help somebody sister. Yeah, and and so
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: she's getting that out of this relationship. Yeah and so yeah,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: it it's that's a tough situation.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So at the end of so writer did send
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: us a second letter that that had a lot more
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: to it and obviously a lot of deats, but said
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: some really nice things at the end of the letters,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: and so I want to read it.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 4: Jim referred to touchdowns earlier, by the way as Tuddyestudy
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 4: did that.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just felt decided. I think that
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: was air. But yeah, he said tuddies talk about big
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: old tuddies. I don't like tuddies. I like football.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 4: I don't like Jim abbrevi face. I wanted to say touchdowns.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 4: I want him to say details. What are fumbles?
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: Fubbies? Those are pubbies. I don't like pubbies as much,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: but I do like tuddies. But no, writer said some
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: really nice things of the end letters. I'm just read
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: it because I think these are always really sweet to
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: see and it's nice if you managine read this far.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I really do appreciate all that
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: you do, and the time and effort you put in
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: every week, and what you believe in. Nick. Your wit
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: and hilarious one liners are always delightful and surprising given
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: how calm and level headed you are. Your patience apparently
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: knows no balance, as evidenced by this podcast. I love listening.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: I love listening to your stories and learning from your advice.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: You provide a perfect balance and are essential to as
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: being the yin to Jim's yang. Yeah, that's sweet. Wit.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: You are such a fantastic addition to what was it's
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: really cute. You are a fantastic addition to what was
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: already an amazing show. If pod therapy was like apple pie,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: you are the vanilla ice cream on top. You are
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: very vanilla, by the way.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: That's the best ice cream flavor.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: In addition to something already great made even better. Your
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: insight is so valuable and it's clear you are a
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: wonderful therapist. Jim Jacob, thanks so much for being a
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: part of this show of being smart, funny, and quick
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: with wit, you provide great life advice. Despite not being
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: a therapist, although I suppose I should expect as much
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: from a doctor. Thank you, just getting Jim, You're wonderful. Anyways,
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: super long callback. But Nick, have you considered making Alpha
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: Goose as your secret service code name? You didn't read
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: I had one? Wonderful honestly seemed like a great guy
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: to be around. Thanks. Okay, you know, I honestly thought
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: you said, I'm just kidding.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: Jim.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: You're wonderful. You're damn funny, kind and genuinely seem to
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: be to want to make sure everyone around you is
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: having a great time. I think of you. I think
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: you and my sister share a lot of similar traits. Well,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: we are both fucking Trevor, so perhaps it is you
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: that I have the most to learn from. Anyway, Thanks
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: everybody so much. Love to you all, and keep doing
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: what you're doing, and keep spreading the word about your
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: or I will keep spreading the word about your amazing podcast.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: So anyway, that was lovely, So can't wait to read
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: that in the review. I better see it the copy
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: and paste. As we wrap up the show, we want
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: to remind you can sign up at patreon dot com
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: slash therapy. You can get the extended show ad free
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: a day earlier, as well as enjoy our live chat
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: discord community, our weekly deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups,
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: and rams.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: This is the part of the show where I remind
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: Jim that that mine is tomorrow.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah you are aware. Yeah, that doesn't mean it's going
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: to happen, but I'm aware that it's my turn. Okay.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: We would also like to thank our patreons. Who's new
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: to the Therap party. Yeah, sorry, I just I just.
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: All right. We got a new therapeal Joshua Schultz. Welcome, Welcome,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: and last minute edition that's not on your script. We
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: got a new therap producer, Shiit Cody, the DeLorean guy.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: Bad damn time Cody, Welcome to the owners. But the.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: Currency was Canadians, so I haven't done the I think
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: it's their producer. Yeah, yeah, sure, that's fine. And it's
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: also I don't know it's Canadian so yeah, it's like
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: monopoly money.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think any of it's real. I don't
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: think we can actually use any of them for any
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: legal purposes. But you know, converted to crypto by drugs,
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: that'll be cool. See. Oh no, it's best better. Oh y.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 4: Seventy four US dollars or seventy four cents to one
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 4: Canadian dollar.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: All right, Cody, Wow, awesome, great, And of course we'd
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: like to think the benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly pro
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: therapy diehards who love you all so much they give
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: till it hurts the their partners dirty bee and pick
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: it and we want a space. Oh right, now that's wrong.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 4: Also, it's seventy four cents equals one Canadian dollar.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: It's far.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: Never mind, thank you anyway, Cody, nice, try yeah, And
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: we wanted to have to correct that yelling. It was
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: a larger number than what a typical their producer was.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: So Cody, Cody understands, You're fine. He gets it more
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: than I did. You get to stay, And we want
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: to think our boss is the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: Members of the fan Club, the their producers. Thank you,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior, Mint, Smitty Scoop, Ben Dawn,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: Judy Schneider, Kayla Ansberry, Malia Leon Cassab Mason Miller, Richard
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: Fucking Macy, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Sammy Scoop,
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: Ben Stanley, Slapping your Face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: t Mike Helm, Paris, Samantha Cone, Darren Cunning, Lib Team Monaco,
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Matt, Lisa Tangman, heyo Oscar Swan
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: ros A, Sunny Boy, Slurpikaye motherfucker, Sandra mcwoffele Dan Martin, Han,
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: Marie Andrew Langmead, Emma Kine, Elena and welcoming Cody. And
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: if you would like to hear this episode uncut and unedited.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 3: And wow, wouldn't you and.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: Enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go to patreon dot com
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: slash therapy and thank you for supporting mental health.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: That's all the time we got for this weeks as
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: we want to thank our landlords Matt Mattingley's ice Cream
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: Social podcast and thanks to those of you contributed to
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: our show today. We really appreciate it. Remember pot Therapy
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: is and something to keep all of yourself showty episode
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: with the world tag us on the socials when you do.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: It's at pot therapy guys on Instagram, threads and Twitter,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: at slash pot therapy on Facebook and don't forget about
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: all the extra goodies at patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: Do you want to submit a question to the show.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: You can ask anonymously at pot therapy dot net or
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: email us at pot therapy guys at gmail dot com.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: I'm Nick Tangement, I'm late. I'm Jim. Thanks. We'll see
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: if your appointments next week already, I think you guys
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: one another? Was there another round of trivia?
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it could be, could be? How about
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: one last one question? I don't kick the geography one
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: winner takes all?
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, the one time I was going
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: to win.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: This one's worth a million. Which US state is geographically
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: closer closest