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Interview with Dr. Marquis Clark Part One · More Than Medicine

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: So listen up, because the doctor is in.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctors' rusty, dusty scrapbook.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Well, today I'm delighted to have online with me Dr Marquise Clark, who's principal of I think it's an elementary school in inner city of Spartanburg.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Is that correct, dr Clark?
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: That's correct.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: The Cleveland Academy of Leadership how?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Well, dr Clark, I'm honored to have you as my guest today and I'm going to ask you if you would to introduce yourself.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Tell a little bit about your family and about the school where you're the principal and how you came to be there.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Take it away now, how you came to be there.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Take it away now.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I certainly appreciate the invite and the opportunity.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: I consider it an absolute honor and humble that anyone would want to hear from this poor country boy.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: I grew up in the lower part of the state, a little place called Remini, South Carolina.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I know exactly where Remini is.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I'm from Manning, south Carolina, by the way you're kidding me.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not kidding you.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I had no idea that's where you were from, dr Clark, I had no idea.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: I have only met one other person in the upstate that actually knew remotely where Remini was.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: They knew Pinewood but they thought they'd heard of Remini.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: That actually knew remotely where Rum and I was.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: They knew Pinewood but they thought they'd heard of Rum and I.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: So okay, all world.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: We're close, kin brother, there you go.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: So Rum and I for the listeners, you know Rum and I has it does not have a stop light.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: We have three stop signs and a liquor store.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: That's know Rum and I has it does not have a stop light.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: We have three stop signs and a liquor store.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: That's pretty much it Is there a post office there.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: There was one some time ago, but it closed down a long time ago, but nonetheless so, rum and I was home for the first six years of my life, and then we moved to Sumter, the big city of Sumter, and, man, I tell you, when we got to Sumter we were really high-stepping then.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: You know, if I had a date in high school, we left Manning and went to Sumter because there was nothing, absolutely nothing to do in Manning.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: That's true, absolutely nothing to do with manning.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: And so we moved to 15 South in Sumter, which was more dirt roads for a long time, up until a year, not too long ago.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: But dad has been a pastor for about 30 plus years, and so that's been life, and so that's been life.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Mom and dad always instilled in us the importance of service and care for other people.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: You know, one thing my mom would always say is that a person's feelings is all that they have.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, we grew up really being mindful of how we treat people and how we engage folks.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: And my dad would always say you know, everyone does not have the same knowledge, and so his way.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: You know, if you know something that someone else doesn't know, it's not your task to belittle that person, but it's your task to teach or to lead or be of some service to help that person come along.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: And so life for us.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: You know, it was a lot of love, but we grew up fairly poor.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: You know, mom and dad, they labored heavily.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: Both were high school dropouts, later obtained their GED much later in life who dropouts, later obtain their GED much later in life, but very hardworking folks, honorable people in the church, and that's been life.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: You know we, mom and dad, have four boys.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I'm the baby of the family and I thoroughly enjoy being the baby.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: I know some folks have an issue with being the baby of the family.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: I do not.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of privileges that come with being the baby.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: They come with being the baby.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: I know some folks have an issue with being the baby of the family.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I do not.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of privileges that come with being the baby.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: They come with being the baby.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of privileges.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: For example, I get to fuss at my brothers and say some of the craziest things and they just look at me and laugh and they pay me no attention and I'm perfectly fine with that because they know it's all out of love and they don't give me too hard of a time.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: My baby brother's, the clown of the family.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: There you go, same here, that's right.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: So you know, schooling for us, I'll tell you, coming from Romani and Sumter, and you being from Manitou, you know there was always a mill, a lumber mill, be it Georgia Pacific, be it the local poultry plant or a furniture plant, it was always that sort of way of life, either industry or agriculture.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: And so with that, you know, there wasn't a great deal of importance placed on education.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: It's one of those things where you know you did it or you didn't.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Either way, boy, you'll make a living.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: One of these plants right here will hire you.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I knew that.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that was pretty much life.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: And so for me starting elementary school was really, really tough.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was fairly treacherous.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I read below grade level Eight out of the 12 years I was in public education.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: I always was fairly intuitive.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I just couldn't get those letters and sounds to flow together the way I needed them to.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Exceptionally good in mathematics At an early age I had mastered multiplication facts, was able to do percentages in my head, and so math was second nature, but reading was very difficult.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Later I found out in my studies in grad school that that's fairly typical of high poverty, highly rural communities, the access to literacy and the importance of it and so on and so forth.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: But nonetheless that was life.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: You sort of kind of struggled along up until the things started to change.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: I remember my first time getting a girlfriend oh no, oh yeah.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I was in the eighth grade and I mean she was just absolutely gorgeous.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: And because I couldn't read Dr Jackson I would act a fool in school.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Anything I could do to get the attention off of my inability to read I would do it.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: I would say some of the dirtiest things.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I would do some of the dirtiest things.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Anything to get a laugh out of the teachers and the students Anything to keep the attention off of my inability to read.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: And so I was quite the knucklehead, but never did too much that would warrant a phone call to my dad.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: I just knew better.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Ok, yeah, I always kept it.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: I always skated on thin ice.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Just enough maybe a phone call to my mom, but never anything bad enough to make it a phone call to my dad.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: I just knew better but nonetheless got that girlfriend in the eighth grade and I just wanted to see her every day.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: And so because of that, I stopped acting crazy in school and started listening.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: And sure enough, I found out that if I just kept my mouth shut and paid attention, I could learn like everybody else.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: And so, for the first time, I got a, a, b and one C honor roll in the eighth grade.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: It was the first time I got the honor roll.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I was in eighth grade, and I'll never forget when they called my name in the gymnasium, everyone just sort of I mean you could hear a pin drop, like how did that happen?
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: They were stunned.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: They were stunned, so was I.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: But nonetheless that really planted a seed for what was possible for me academically.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Prior to that I had very little self-esteem in what I felt I was capable of doing in terms of academics, and so that became middle school, high school and high school.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was almost as if I did a 180.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: I became class president, started really hitting the books hard and really really got serious about my studies.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I didn't know then what it would all amount to.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: But about my sophomore year my brother, who's next to me, came up with a brilliant idea.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: He says hey, how about you and I become teachers and barbers?
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: And what we'll do?
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: We'll teach during the week and we'll cut our students hair on the weekend.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: We'll have a constant clientele.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: That's a mess.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: It's not a bad idea.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: But you know, I want to do politics, so I wanted to be a policy.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I was going to get my MPA and do master's in public administration and my dream was to replace James Clyburn as a member for Sumter and a little part of the state.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: So that was my goal.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: I wanted to replace Clyburn.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Well, sure enough, my brother ended up becoming enamored with the lifestyle of the streets and before you knew it, he had gotten felony charges, but not only him, my other brothers as well.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And so I found myself I'll never forget my first time no-transcript.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: And so I remember just thinking, gosh, you know, there's something else when you can't call your bros, you know.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: And I had a moment I'll never forget it.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: But nonetheless, after my brother kind of got in trouble and whatnot, I thought to myself you know, maybe I'll do this teaching thing for a little while, just to show my brother that his dream could have been a reality.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Just to show my brother that his dream could have been a reality.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: And so I enrolled to Morris College in Sumter and also applied for the Call Me Mr program, was accepted and that began my journey to becoming an educator, stayed at Morris College for four and a half years, earned my Bachelor's of Science in Education and then, one day, dr Jackson, I got a call from Mr Rudolph Wheeler, who was my campus director for Calumet Minister, and says hey, I just got a call from Wanda Andrews, who's the assistant superintendent in Spartanburg, district 7, and I owe her a favor and I need you to go up there and apply to Spartanburg for a job.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: And, dr Jackson, I'm going to tell you I had no idea where Spartanburg was.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Honest to goodness, I thought Spartanburg was near Aiken I really did.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, folks use their phones now but then 13 years ago, we had MapQuest so we would print out the instructions.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: And so I printed off the instructions, the directions rather, and got on the road and drove to Spartanburg, drove up the night before Saturday, drove up with my then-fiancee, now wife, and we drove around the community.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: We drove around the north side and she said so what are you thinking?
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: I said I'm not taking this job.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: I said you see what's around this school.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Yep I said there's no way I'm taking this job.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: I said, but I'm going to be a man of my word and I'm going to go in for the interview.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: The interview was Monday at 10 o'clock and so, sure enough, monday at 10 o'clock I showed up at the Cleveland Academy of Leadership for a 10 o'clock interview.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: I left the Cleveland Academy of Leadership at 1.30.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: But while I was there it became very clear to me that, although the North side was a desert, a community that lacked so much, it was a desert of hope, a desert of literacy, a desert of opportunity.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Then I felt like Cleveland was an oasis.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: I felt like that school was trying to provide life to those children and to that community, and I felt like I needed to be there.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: I felt like if I was going to be the Christian that I had proclaimed to be, if I was going to be a member of Call Me Mr and uphold the mission and vision of their organization, I felt like I owed it to myself to not be a hypocrite and to be where I felt like I was needed the most.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I knew it was going to be tough, but I had no idea at the time how difficult it really was going to be.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I understand, I understand when I'll never forget, in fact, my first year, december, I called my college professor in undergrad and had asked her to connect me with an attorney who could specialize in getting me out of my contract.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Because I was ready to get back home to Sumter ASAP, because it was just, I was really appalled by the level of poverty, the level of neglect.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you, I remember getting a knock at my door, spartanburg City Police detectives coming to question me about a student that I was mentoring who was removed from the home because he had tested positive for crack cocaine removed from the home because he had tested positive for crack cocaine.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: I remember having a young man eating raw Roman noodles out of a trash can.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: I remember students just absolutely reeking of the smell of urine, seeing children eat with their bare hands.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, I saw some things that I just didn't think.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I just didn't think we as a society had succumbed to in terms of what we just didn't provide for people.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: You know, growing up in Romanite and Sumter, you know we grew up poor, but it was a different kind of poor than what I was experiencing as a teacher at Cleveland.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: So after I saw that young man I knew I had to commit at a very deep level.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I knew that if I were going to break some of these cycles I had to really anchor down and figure out a way to give these babies the best that I could give them.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: And so I put my head down and I prayed.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I mean I prayed and taught, prayed and taught, prayed and taught, prayed and taught.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: And I remember one time it was as clear I knew it was the Holy Spirit, as clear I knew it was the Holy Spirit I was teaching a.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: It's not a difficult concept, but it's one that's.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: It's one that can be cumbersome for second graders.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: It was the concept of regrouping, so it was subtracting and adding and regrouping and teaching children expanded place value, right.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: So how do you look at the number 136?
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: And then how do you get a child to understand that that's a 1-100, three tens and six ones?
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: And I remember that night I prayed.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I said God, just show me how to best teach this in a way where it really comes across clearly to my children.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Dr Jackson, I went to bed that night and it had to have been about 2.45, 3 o'clock, the Holy Spirit gave me a vision in my dream.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I woke up immediately and wrote it out, and the next day I made the little manipulative that the Holy Spirit gave me and it made so much sense to my students and I was like wait a minute?
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: And so I kept trying him.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: I kept trying him, and every time I tried him he showed up for me, and so I had the opportunity to represent the school as a teacher of the year, later became Spartanburg District 7 teacher of the year.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: That afforded me some opportunities to travel and to speak about education and what my experience had been like across the state and across the nation, and from there I was asked by the principal to be assistant principal, and I joined the admin team in 2016 after four years in the classroom, served faithfully as assistant principal for three years, and then the superintendent called me and asked me if I would like to be principal of the school, and I considered it a dream come true.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: You know who wouldn't want to be principal at the very school they began their teaching career at, so I signed up, but I had no idea what I was signing up for.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Every single job is vastly different, although I was less than three yards away from the principal's office.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: It's a completely different job.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: The weight of that office is indescribable.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, you can't prepare adequately anyone who will step into the role of leadership.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: As Truman would say, the buck stops here.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: When you become principal, it is yours and you have to own it.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: And you then realize that you have to make everyone happy.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: If not happy, you have to get them close to it.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Everyone has to feel seen, heard, valued and appreciated, but then also you have to make yourself as small as possible, and so, when I became principal, the Cleveland Academy of Leadership was continuing its long legacy of being quite the infamous and low-performing school that it was for 20 consecutive years.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: So I became principal in the fall of 2019.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: And, my goodness, was that a rude awakening.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I had no idea of the challenges that were before me, from folks just not believing in the children to not believing in me, not believing that it could be done.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: I'll be honest with you, dr Jackson.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: I think half of the community felt like the challenge was too insurmountable for a rookie principal, and I was hired at 29 to be the principal.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I received the keys at 30 years old, being principal at one of the upstate and the state's notoriously low-performing schools.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: So I think half of the community felt like it was too big of a challenge for me and I think the other half felt like, well, he can't mess it up.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I understand.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: So it was like you know, give him a shot, let him see what he can do.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: And so I remember I mean, doc, I was kissing babies, hugging grandparents, high-fiving, I mean all of the things you would imagine that a new leader would do I was doing it.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: I mean I'm feeding teachers just about every week.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: I'm going above and beyond, I'm taking away so much of the responsibilities for them.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: And I said, hey, I just want you all to teach well, and when you teach well, make sure the students have learned it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: And if they've not learned it, then reteach it.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: And so I just put some, you know, instructional parameters in place.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: You know, here are the things that I must see when I come to evaluate, when I come to observe.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: And so, sure enough.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: And so sure enough it was.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: October and I didn't see any of what I had asked for, dr Jackson.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: I went to these classrooms and I saw some stuff.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh my goodness, there's no way we are going to improve the educability of these children if we don't do something differently.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: And so I remember that night, after I completed my final round of observation and saw some things that I just didn't think.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I didn't think, I just didn't, I couldn't imagine how anyone would think that it was a good teacher.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: And I remember sitting up in my bed and I was just so overwhelmed I had succumbed to my emotions and I was just bawling and my wife woke up and said are you okay?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I said no, I'm not, but I will be.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: That concludes part one of my interview with Drquise clark, principal of cleveland elementary academy of excellence.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: It's an amazing interview and I had no idea before I began the interview that dr clark was from remini, south car, which is only approximately 10 miles from my hometown of Manning, south Carolina.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: What a coincidence.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Well, dr Clark will be back next week and he will conclude this interview about the amazing story of how God used him to transform a failing elementary school into truly a school of excellence.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You don't want to miss the conclusion of this interview next week.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Bob Sloan Audio Production at bobsloancom.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Bob Sloan Audio Production at bobsloancom.