Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Happy Hour #75: SMNTY Makes a Summer Cocktail, Part 2
Transcript
- 0:05Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sandy and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stephane
- 0:08Speaker 1: never told you protection of iHeart Radio, and welcome to
- 0:20Speaker 1: well part two of our special Sminty Makes Cocktail Happy
- 0:25Speaker 1: Hour because this is now Annie's turn to bring her
- 0:29Speaker 1: creation to your ears. And I have to laugh because
- 0:34Speaker 1: in making mine, and do you realize how much you
- 0:38Speaker 1: have used? And this this is like I was like,
- 0:44Speaker 1: I need a tumbler. I don't have like a giant
- 0:48Speaker 1: tumbler for this, so I had to cut it in half.
- 0:51Speaker 1: I'm sorry to in order to keep up. Because we
- 0:57Speaker 1: are actually recording both of the Happy Hour from the
- 1:01Speaker 1: previous one to this one, back to back, so that
- 1:04Speaker 1: means we're having two cocktails. Yes, it's that kind of day.
- 1:07Speaker 1: And for myself of like, I need to slow down
- 1:10Speaker 1: just a little, but so doing the full amount of
- 1:13Speaker 1: the chosen cocktail would be too much. But before we
- 1:17Speaker 1: get ahead of ourselves, can you tell us about this cocktail? Yes? Well, okay,
- 1:24Speaker 1: perhaps first drink response you choose to do so, secondly
- 1:29Speaker 1: if you listened, So it's kind of odd. But Samantha
- 1:33Speaker 1: does half of the happy Hours. I do the other half.
- 1:36Speaker 1: So even though these are there's an episode of mine
- 1:40Speaker 1: in between we're doing two Samantha's spec to back. But
- 1:44Speaker 1: this was Samantha's idea that we would each turn in
- 1:47Speaker 1: a cocktail and then have each other make it and
- 1:51Speaker 1: try it um and I sent three ideas. I sent
- 1:56Speaker 1: one that was essentially like a frozen water ellen gen
- 2:01Speaker 1: lime situation, which is one of my favorite things. And
- 2:05Speaker 1: if you've heard that past episode, it was kind of
- 2:08Speaker 1: a play on what I used to drink in the summer,
- 2:10Speaker 1: non alcoholic with my mom. That was just so refreshing.
- 2:14Speaker 1: And I call that one the Flames of boostafar Um.
- 2:19Speaker 1: And then I came up with another one that I
- 2:22Speaker 1: thought was just funny, and it's just coffee with a
- 2:25Speaker 1: shot of tequila in it, and it's called Coffee one
- 2:27Speaker 1: Kenobi because right now on archive of our own the
- 2:31Speaker 1: fan fiction website, it's a huge tag. I wish I
- 2:34Speaker 1: had written it down, but essentially, like, if the Obi
- 2:37Speaker 1: wan Kenobi show is an Obi wan Kenobi just drinking
- 2:39Speaker 1: tequila and crying, then I don't want to be there.
- 2:43Speaker 1: So I thought that was funny. This one is called
- 2:45Speaker 1: That's So feat which features a ewa Kes curse word.
- 2:52Speaker 1: Uh so, I like I like the sound of feat.
- 2:56Speaker 1: I also thought it was funny with that, so fatch Anyway,
- 2:58Speaker 1: it's a plan a poloma because we were trying to
- 3:00Speaker 1: make things that each other would like, and I know
- 3:02Speaker 1: that you like great fruit, and I know that you
- 3:04Speaker 1: like plapinos. Interestingly, as I mentioned in the previous episode,
- 3:09Speaker 1: we did in Samantha's cocktail there was a plapino simple
- 3:13Speaker 1: syrup involved, and then I got rid of it because
- 3:16Speaker 1: I never do that, and then she did it for cocktails,
- 3:19Speaker 1: so now I feel kind of silly. But it's very
- 3:24Speaker 1: close to the yev Nub cocktail, which I've described before,
- 3:28Speaker 1: but it is a lot of alcohol, and in fact,
- 3:32Speaker 1: I've made sure because I did base this on a paloma.
- 3:36Speaker 1: I guess a paloma is supposed to be equal parts
- 3:38Speaker 1: alcohol and great fruit juice. But essentially it's two to
- 3:42Speaker 1: four shots tequila whichever where you're going, and two to
- 3:47Speaker 1: four shots great fruit to match it, and then one
- 3:49Speaker 1: ounce lime juice and then top it off with sparkling
- 3:56Speaker 1: water and then garnished with alapinos if you have the
- 4:01Speaker 1: know how where with alts and make calpino syrup and
- 4:04Speaker 1: then put that in there. I added a little of
- 4:06Speaker 1: the basil. Actually it's really nice. So this is differently
- 4:13Speaker 1: you nub because a it doesn't have basil unless you
- 4:15Speaker 1: added the basil simple syrup, and it doesn't use gin,
- 4:20Speaker 1: and it doesn't use the black pepper. And I think
- 4:23Speaker 1: the thing that's missing because I had admitted earlier, I
- 4:25Speaker 1: had to cut all this in half. But also I
- 4:28Speaker 1: needed a little sweetness, which would have been the simple syrup.
- 4:31Speaker 1: But because you excluded that process, we don't have that
- 4:34Speaker 1: sweetness in here. So I added a gave which we
- 4:38Speaker 1: have on hand. Um. And then I also in my shaker,
- 4:42Speaker 1: I used the helpenos to put into that to add
- 4:45Speaker 1: that spicy because I will love a good spicy kick.
- 4:46Speaker 1: It's true. Grapefruit is one of my favorite. Basil is
- 4:50Speaker 1: one of my favorites, and helpin you are my favorites.
- 4:52Speaker 1: Like I have a lot of favorites, but yeah, I
- 4:54Speaker 1: like a good spice grape fruits right up there. I do.
- 4:57Speaker 1: Our favorite drink, which is close to the yub nub
- 5:00Speaker 1: is something that's a popular here in Atlanta, UH called
- 5:04Speaker 1: the in the Park, which is all of those things
- 5:07Speaker 1: with the gin and the basil, and I love, love,
- 5:10Speaker 1: love love that. Um. This is very nice and tasty,
- 5:14Speaker 1: very bright. I love the help in your addition to it.
- 5:18Speaker 1: Uh yeah, this is good. I would have I would
- 5:21Speaker 1: have absolutely done the help in your simple styrup with you.
- 5:25Speaker 1: I get why you didn't. You were trying to make
- 5:26Speaker 1: it simple and I never made things simple. So it
- 5:29Speaker 1: was kind of like the two personalities that came clashing together. Well,
- 5:33Speaker 1: this is funny because it's not that hard, as we
- 5:35Speaker 1: discussed in the last one. But I was just like,
- 5:37Speaker 1: I don't want to make Samantha do it, and then
- 5:39Speaker 1: you were like, any you have to make this. It's
- 5:42Speaker 1: just our two different personalities shining. This is easy. You
- 5:45Speaker 1: can do this. Let's go right. But yeah, because I
- 5:49Speaker 1: had made the pumpkin spice uh simple syrup type of
- 5:54Speaker 1: thing before, and it was so easy that I was like,
- 5:58Speaker 1: this is so crazy. The only problem is because you
- 6:00Speaker 1: create it, make it out of fresh ingredients, you have
- 6:03Speaker 1: a small amount of time to use it in those
- 6:09Speaker 1: One of the things I was worried about was I
- 6:12Speaker 1: just didn't want it to go to waste. But you
- 6:14Speaker 1: have your recipe, right, and so it I'm already almost
- 6:18Speaker 1: two with it. Uh yeah, so that's perfect, right, It's
- 6:21Speaker 1: gonna be like, for one more drink and you're good.
- 6:37Speaker 1: One of the things that we have not discussed, and
- 6:40Speaker 1: this might be one of those moments where we are
- 6:42Speaker 1: getting deeper than anticipated. But I don't think it is.
- 6:47Speaker 1: But I also know you well enough that sometimes it
- 6:50Speaker 1: diverts very quickly, So we'll see. We'll see. But why
- 6:54Speaker 1: do you think it's important? And why are you so
- 6:58Speaker 1: into naming all of these Star Wars puns? Alright, Samantha
- 7:04Speaker 1: prepared for a two hour I think I just I
- 7:12Speaker 1: know people. There are some people who hate puns, and
- 7:16Speaker 1: they're in our office. Our office is like a house
- 7:19Speaker 1: divided with people who love puns and people who hate puns.
- 7:23Speaker 1: And because of that, there was article that circulated as
- 7:30Speaker 1: many years ago. Um, it was about why people like puns.
- 7:35Speaker 1: And when I read it, I was like, yeah, I
- 7:39Speaker 1: like the fun aspect of it, Like it makes me excited.
- 7:44Speaker 1: I get excited about it when I find what I like.
- 7:48Speaker 1: I'm just more thrilled than it is probably appropriate. Um.
- 7:53Speaker 1: But it's almost like a game. It's like a puzzle.
- 7:55Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I know there's something there. I can
- 7:59Speaker 1: tie it into this, and then you're kind of interweaving
- 8:03Speaker 1: your passion. In my case for Star Wars, with what
- 8:07Speaker 1: you think the drink means and the ingredients in it,
- 8:12Speaker 1: it feels like a mind exercise. For me, it feels
- 8:14Speaker 1: like a yeah, like a puzzle, like I'm trying to
- 8:18Speaker 1: solve a rub excube or something. And when I do it,
- 8:21Speaker 1: it's just so thrilling. And there's like during my Dungeons
- 8:26Speaker 1: and Dragon session, we're almost all of it is just
- 8:29Speaker 1: Star Wars funds. I get a big thrill out of
- 8:32Speaker 1: like the kind of groaning, the grudging smiles I get
- 8:36Speaker 1: out of people when they're like, oh, snowby one Kenobi huh.
- 8:40Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I just really like it. It's silly,
- 8:44Speaker 1: but it's rewarding to me, I guess. And one of
- 8:47Speaker 1: the things we've talked about for these episodes is it's
- 8:49Speaker 1: not research. We don't do too much research. We just
- 8:51Speaker 1: want to sit back and talk. It is kind of
- 8:54Speaker 1: something that we do selfishly because we want to take
- 8:56Speaker 1: a break from the deep dives. And I think we've
- 9:00Speaker 1: talked about how long it takes us to go through
- 9:02Speaker 1: a researched episode and doing it well and trying to
- 9:05Speaker 1: get it done appropriately and um as unbiased to a
- 9:10Speaker 1: certain extent of an ideal of it, and it takes
- 9:13Speaker 1: a lot out when we go into deep dark episodes,
- 9:16Speaker 1: and so we decided for things like Happy Hour, we
- 9:19Speaker 1: just want to let it be and sometimes it takes
- 9:21Speaker 1: us in a therapeutic level. Sometimes it's just very vapid
- 9:25Speaker 1: and silly, and we love that. But you know, one
- 9:28Speaker 1: of the things I would say about puns in general,
- 9:32Speaker 1: I don't do puns well, I can't grasp it. I
- 9:35Speaker 1: am fairly literal when it comes to things like that,
- 9:38Speaker 1: like this is silly, what are you doing? Um? But
- 9:41Speaker 1: I also think it's partially because I can't, like I
- 9:45Speaker 1: really just can't get into it because I don't have
- 9:50Speaker 1: that wit when it comes to sarcasm or playing off
- 9:53Speaker 1: of people's comments or reading people. I can do that
- 9:56Speaker 1: all day when it comes to puns as a whole
- 9:59Speaker 1: different level of wit that I can't hit. And I
- 10:02Speaker 1: really think it takes a lot deeper level of intelligence
- 10:06Speaker 1: to get to this point, intelligence and imagination. So and
- 10:11Speaker 1: again this may have everything to do with my own
- 10:13Speaker 1: Like in my trauma, I had to grow up. In
- 10:16Speaker 1: your trauma, you were able to recede into fantasy, which
- 10:21Speaker 1: we talked about a lot, and that might have something
- 10:24Speaker 1: to do with it. I don't know. This is all conjecture,
- 10:26Speaker 1: This is all an opinion of my own, but from
- 10:28Speaker 1: what I could gather, people who do puns well are
- 10:32Speaker 1: highly highly measurative, highly intelligent, and all right quick on
- 10:36Speaker 1: their feet when it comes to these conversations, which I
- 10:39Speaker 1: do find funny because you also laugh at your own
- 10:42Speaker 1: jokes a lot, and that's amazing. That's amazing to be
- 10:49Speaker 1: able to do that. I find it funny because as
- 10:52Speaker 1: we were talking about the episode preceding this one, part
- 10:56Speaker 1: one about like, okay, can you make this upon without
- 10:59Speaker 1: it being Star Wars, You're like, I don't refuse and
- 11:02Speaker 1: not at all, And I find it fun because it's
- 11:04Speaker 1: more me teasing you than anything else of like, yeah,
- 11:06Speaker 1: this is kind of that level, Like I'm not into
- 11:09Speaker 1: Star Wars. I can't think of puns, so in my mind,
- 11:12Speaker 1: like I don't, I'm gonna make it an allegory of
- 11:14Speaker 1: something rather than a pun, a metaphor of some sort
- 11:20Speaker 1: instead of a punt. And I really thought that was
- 11:23Speaker 1: interesting because you do find joy. There are a lot
- 11:27Speaker 1: of people who find joys, but there are also people
- 11:28Speaker 1: like this is the lowest point of humor. Why would
- 11:31Speaker 1: you do those? And I'm like, but can you do it?
- 11:33Speaker 1: I don't think you can. I can't. Yeah, I mean,
- 11:38Speaker 1: you know, there's certainly varying degrees of good puns and
- 11:42Speaker 1: bad puns, and I think there's a place for all
- 11:44Speaker 1: of them. I do. When I love something, it's hard
- 11:49Speaker 1: for me not to love it everywhere, So like Star
- 11:54Speaker 1: Wars puns, star Wars food, star Wars, like, it's hard
- 11:57Speaker 1: for me not to do that. And I think it
- 12:02Speaker 1: feels yeah, you know, you're right, We're gonna go deep.
- 12:07Speaker 1: It feels kind of like a really innocent thing for me.
- 12:10Speaker 1: It feels like such a a nice time where I
- 12:13Speaker 1: can just innocently laugh at something that is ridiculous, um
- 12:17Speaker 1: and find such joy out of something that is ridiculous,
- 12:22Speaker 1: and I know it and I enjoy it like it's
- 12:24Speaker 1: a fun over on Saber, every episode we do is
- 12:27Speaker 1: pretty much a pun. And I send my host over there,
- 12:31Speaker 1: I send her to thirty punts for her to go
- 12:37Speaker 1: through and decide which one she thinks is good, because
- 12:40Speaker 1: probably half of them are very specific to only me,
- 12:42Speaker 1: you know. But I'll sit there and I'll be laughing
- 12:47Speaker 1: on a workday, just like this pun about bread. I'm
- 12:52Speaker 1: on fire today and I know, I just I don't know.
- 12:59Speaker 1: It just feels like a very light moment. And as
- 13:02Speaker 1: you said, our jobs can be I mean very very
- 13:07Speaker 1: grateful for them, obviously, but they can't be hard to
- 13:09Speaker 1: talk about a lot of stuff we talked about, And
- 13:11Speaker 1: so it's sort of like a nice space that I've
- 13:14Speaker 1: carved out, um where I get to have this sort
- 13:18Speaker 1: of innocent joy, right. But also I'm just a big nerd.
- 13:24Speaker 1: I just like I like giving names to things. I
- 13:28Speaker 1: like making things into a bigger deal than they have
- 13:30Speaker 1: any right to be. I like that, and I think
- 13:34Speaker 1: that's okay. Like this is a whole level of like.
- 13:37Speaker 1: When it comes to you and I, our reactions are
- 13:40Speaker 1: very different because as you like to name things, I
- 13:42Speaker 1: do not. Um. Even growing up, I realized how odd
- 13:47Speaker 1: I was because I never really gave names to my
- 13:50Speaker 1: stuffed animals, to the point that I was so on
- 13:53Speaker 1: the nose that I had a sad story ready. When
- 13:58Speaker 1: I was in the orphanage to come to the US
- 14:01Speaker 1: after being adopted, my now adoptive parents sent me a
- 14:05Speaker 1: care package that included a very generic yellow bear, the
- 14:09Speaker 1: only toy I've ever had, so I've never grown up
- 14:12Speaker 1: with toys. It was always told to me that I
- 14:14Speaker 1: could not receive them. It was something that had to earn,
- 14:16Speaker 1: and I was not good enough to earn. Like I
- 14:18Speaker 1: was physically told that. Literally they would show it to me,
- 14:21Speaker 1: put it away, and then it would be discarded. Um.
- 14:23Speaker 1: So this was the first time I had something that
- 14:25Speaker 1: was mine and it was youthful. So this was aged six.
- 14:29Speaker 1: I was getting this before I left. It was stolen,
- 14:33Speaker 1: and it was stolen because no one in that kind
- 14:36Speaker 1: of space, none of the kids got things. So obviously
- 14:39Speaker 1: someone wanted it and it made sense that and I
- 14:42Speaker 1: didn't push through. It made me sad sentimental wise, but
- 14:46Speaker 1: it was what it was. Came in to. The US
- 14:48Speaker 1: had a little like baby shower ish I guess adoption shower,
- 14:52Speaker 1: I don't know, shower where I get received guests. And
- 14:55Speaker 1: I got a duplicate that was blue, so the original
- 14:58Speaker 1: version was yellow. The long story now that I've made this,
- 15:02Speaker 1: but because I was so excited and it became my
- 15:05Speaker 1: favorite woy, I still have it to this day. I
- 15:07Speaker 1: did not name it for years and realized how odd
- 15:10Speaker 1: that was in comparison to all the other children that
- 15:13Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I have to name it? What
- 15:16Speaker 1: do I name it? And I named a blooper because
- 15:19Speaker 1: it was blue and it spelled b l u E
- 15:22Speaker 1: p e R. Like that's how original I am. But
- 15:28Speaker 1: I could not find the significance to do so. And
- 15:31Speaker 1: then the childlike love of something, I kept it because
- 15:35Speaker 1: it was sentimental. It wasn't because you know what I
- 15:38Speaker 1: mean that there was no passion towards it. I still
- 15:41Speaker 1: have it, like I said, and it is sentimental, but
- 15:44Speaker 1: if it disappeared, I'm not sure if I would be sad.
- 15:47Speaker 1: But all of that to say is like the reaction
- 15:50Speaker 1: between you and I have are so different that I
- 15:53Speaker 1: love seeing that also makes me think that I'm the
- 15:56Speaker 1: abnormal one in the scenario, But I do wish I
- 15:59Speaker 1: could have formed those attachments, and I think it's very
- 16:02Speaker 1: healthy that way you can and find that joy. And
- 16:04Speaker 1: a majority of the people we know in our office
- 16:06Speaker 1: love this because the inside jobs that happened in our
- 16:09Speaker 1: office are typically around puns. It's a It's a thing
- 16:13Speaker 1: to behold everyone. It is a thing to behold. Recently, we've,
- 16:32Speaker 1: as we mentioned, we had to move offices and that
- 16:35Speaker 1: involved a lot of moving of things, uh into my apartment,
- 16:39Speaker 1: and as we said, I'm a very sentimental person and
- 16:43Speaker 1: so I just have so much stuff and I had
- 16:44Speaker 1: to go through it, and I don't know, I find
- 16:47Speaker 1: it interesting that it's like you and I had the
- 16:49Speaker 1: opposite where I was like I had to hold onto
- 16:51Speaker 1: every shred of everything and you were like he could
- 16:55Speaker 1: go away at any minute. Yeah. Yeah, there are some
- 17:00Speaker 1: things that I'm like, oh, and I'm set by because
- 17:03Speaker 1: I want to. I love it because I like the
- 17:05Speaker 1: design of it, or I like the aesthetic of it.
- 17:08Speaker 1: But sentimentality is like I know I should feel this way.
- 17:13Speaker 1: So this is kind of where the like the reactive
- 17:14Speaker 1: attachment of like not really knowing but kind of knowing.
- 17:18Speaker 1: And I'm trying to figure that part out, like, Okay,
- 17:20Speaker 1: this is this is what's considered normal, and so maybe
- 17:24Speaker 1: I should lean into that. I talked about collections and
- 17:28Speaker 1: such before and having to pretend like that I had
- 17:34Speaker 1: deep hobbies like this, But you know, that's that's again
- 17:38Speaker 1: a different conversation in itself. Again, I knew we were
- 17:40Speaker 1: going to go a little deep on this, even though
- 17:42Speaker 1: it was a simple quesum critical silly question, because there's
- 17:46Speaker 1: a lot of death to our humors and our loves
- 17:49Speaker 1: and our passions, and I think it makes it a
- 17:52Speaker 1: lot of sense, and also like bringing it to craft
- 17:55Speaker 1: so you will always remember these names. I will always
- 17:58Speaker 1: forget them and you have to remind me because I
- 18:00Speaker 1: have no attachment to it. That's kind of the other
- 18:02Speaker 1: part of that, because the same thing when we do
- 18:06Speaker 1: uh our Little Star Wars cocktail time, I do remember
- 18:11Speaker 1: the tattooing sunset and then like that's it. That's almost it. Yeah,
- 18:17Speaker 1: And I mean you said abnormal and all this stuff
- 18:20Speaker 1: throughund I don't think that's I have a lot of
- 18:22Speaker 1: friends who are similar to you, where they don't they
- 18:26Speaker 1: find it strange that I have like saved every card
- 18:29Speaker 1: I've ever received, So I don't think it's strange. I
- 18:32Speaker 1: feel like that's what I know. More of my my
- 18:35Speaker 1: family are very sentimental in the same way. So that's
- 18:37Speaker 1: why I'm like hm hmm in this one. I'm the
- 18:40Speaker 1: one out, odd one out. I mean I think it.
- 18:44Speaker 1: I think there are gradations, and I think you and
- 18:46Speaker 1: I do have we have very different reactions. But I
- 18:49Speaker 1: know plenty of people you are not in my circle abnormal,
- 18:53Speaker 1: And I would never say somebody is abnormal for that.
- 18:57Speaker 1: I think, like for me, trauma, like thick has been
- 19:01Speaker 1: so much of what's gotten me through trauma. So like
- 19:03Speaker 1: when I think of tattooing Sunset, I'm remembering of oh God,
- 19:07Speaker 1: when every time I see that scene, I feel so
- 19:09Speaker 1: good and everything else doesn't matter and it feels So
- 19:12Speaker 1: I think that I have like an emotional right with
- 19:15Speaker 1: every name. Yeah, so that makes sense to me, Uh
- 19:20Speaker 1: that I would have you would have that, Yeah, So
- 19:22Speaker 1: a lot of things go on based on named alcoholic beverages.
- 19:27Speaker 1: I think we're gonna I think we're going to have
- 19:30Speaker 1: to have a revisit and I'm going to go over
- 19:32Speaker 1: my worst Star Wars puns I've ever made. I think
- 19:35Speaker 1: we should shots. That's a very special episode. I would
- 19:43Speaker 1: love to do it because I have them all written
- 19:45Speaker 1: down for this, Dungeons and Dragons things. I just have
- 19:46Speaker 1: a document where it makes bad puns. You sent me
- 19:50Speaker 1: some before You're like look at this, and I was like,
- 19:52Speaker 1: oh my god, here we go. It wasn't a place
- 19:56Speaker 1: like here we going myself. I you all the some
- 20:01Speaker 1: of you have sent me the messages, but your Mark
- 20:04Speaker 1: Cambell's autographs recently went viral things he thought no one
- 20:08Speaker 1: would ever see. And I was like, look see, I'm
- 20:13Speaker 1: already working in this realhouse, so I feel like I
- 20:16Speaker 1: gottes destiny. I think a lot of people would argue
- 20:23Speaker 1: puns on the dark side, but I would disagree. Well, yeah,
- 20:28Speaker 1: this really went places who knew. Cheers to you, Samantha,
- 20:33Speaker 1: Cheers and cheers to you listeners. If you want any
- 20:37Speaker 1: of these recipes, just email us and we'll send them
- 20:39Speaker 1: to you. They're pretty simple, but just let us know.
- 20:42Speaker 1: And if you have any recipes you want to share
- 20:43Speaker 1: with us, because as we mentioned, we would love like
- 20:46Speaker 1: a official spinty cocktail, you can email us. Our email
- 20:52Speaker 1: is Stephanie your mom Stuff and I hurt me dot com.
- 20:54Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
- 20:56Speaker 1: or on Instagram at stuff One never told you things.
- 20:59Speaker 1: As always to our super producer Christie, Thank you Christina,
- 21:02Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never told
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