Latest / Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding / 36. The Trust Equation: How Behavioral Data Transforms Client Relationships with Marla Sofer

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36. The Trust Equation: How Behavioral Data Transforms Client Relationships with Marla Sofer · Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding

0:00
SPEAKER_01: There is no lack of research showing that people want to improve their emotional relationship with money.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: And advisors know that behavioral coaching and emotional engagement with their clients is what builds trust.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: It is the difference between a client who is giving you maybe 10% of their portfolio and may fire you next year because you're not living up to it, and the all-in client.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most, which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: Whether it's mastering discovery meaning handling sensitive client conversations or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, hi.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I should probably introduce myself.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: Let's dive in Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Ashley Kwame.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: And today, my friends, I have someone very special, very cool, very interesting.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: A new connection for, I don't know, Marla, maybe the last year kind of ish here.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: I think we've we've been connected uh last several months.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: Nonetheless, I have Marla Sofer here with Nomi.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: And she and I are gonna be talking about tech, data tech, as she before we jumped on this call, shared with me a little bit about and specifically her company, Nomi, and how that is supporting advisors, how that is deepening engagement and relationships.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna talk about all that fun stuff here.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: So, Marla, thank you so much for coming on and being willing to share your wisdom and insights.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: And I am probably one of your biggest fans, Ashley.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: I just think you have all the right energy as it relates to the future of planning and engagement.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: You're going deep into all of the right topics.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: You bring so much fun and spunk into it.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I'm thrilled to be here.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: And thank you for the kind words and compliments.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: I am gonna make sure that my kids listen to that specific section.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna make sure they listen to that specific section.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I know a little bit about what you're doing now, like with Nomi, high level.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: And I want to talk about that.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: I want to get to all of that.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: But first, before we dive in, can you share maybe just a little bit more?
3:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you get into the tech space?
3:31
SPEAKER_02: High level, whatever you're willing, feel comfortable with, a little bit about just kind of your journey and who you are.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: I will start with I was born and raised in El Paso, Texas.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: And my dad became a financial advisor in 1984 when we had three young kids at home, wanted to start a business, was working for my grandfather at the time.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it was a life changer.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Like him becoming an FA was just very impactful on me and my journey.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: I went to college, I came back.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: I ended up actually, I got a job out of college after I kind of had different experiences.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be a diplomat first.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: I studied peace and conflict resolution.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: I worked at a private bank and was a licensed advisor, and I supported ultra high net worth and high net worth clients in South and Latin America between 2004 and 2006 or so.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: That's so specific, like to like geographically.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, all right.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: I love, I love that.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: That is so cool.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were such interesting clients too, because they were all, not all, mostly small business owners, but extreme wealth and kind of all kinds of interesting, unique, niche businesses.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: And as a private banker, I helped them with everything.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: I was a licensed advisor, I helped them with their their allocations and their trading and their options and their portfolio, but I also helped pay their vendors of their business.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: And we actually sold kidnapping insurance, which was very common.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: It's still common in South and Latin America.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm not laughing.
4:53
SPEAKER_02: That's not, I'm I'm laughing out of joke.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: It's a different stack of tools of just people need in that.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: So it was actually a very different time.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: I I then moved, I worked at JP Morgan, and they hired me in to support asset managers because I had worked in private banking.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: They said, How do we provide asset managers and institutional investors the same white glove service that private bankers often to their offer to their clients?
5:18
SPEAKER_01: So I came in and this was 2006, and I said, Okay, great.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: I was on a team of seven people that all covered Franklin Templeton.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Great, how do I learn about what's working best with Capital Group and Pimco and BlackRock and all these different companies?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: They said, well, we don't actually interact.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: And so I broke down barriers and I was like, we are gonna get together and talk about what works best for our clients.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: So they actually liked that a lot.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: They then offered me an off uh opportunity to relocate.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: So I moved out to the Bay Area.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: I ended up covering all asset managers.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: And then I was hired by one of my clients in 2011, BlackRock.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: And at BlackRock, I oversaw all operational vendors.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: So custodian banks, index licensors, and data providers.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: It was a billion dollars in annual spend.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: It was a very big, ivory, towery type of a job, a lot of golf and stake.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: And I felt very empty.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: And I thought I'm not helping anyone live a better life.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: I am not helping them make better financial decisions.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: And I have to be a part of technology that is going to change that reality.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be a part of fintech as a fintech insider.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: And so in 2015, a decade ago, I left BlackRock in this kind of, you know, 15-year trajectory I was on.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: And I got into fintech.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: And I learned I was the head of partnerships at four very leading fintechs, and I ran financial services strategy at Microsoft.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: And what I learned is that the ability to personalize and offer deeply human investing exists.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: The challenge is we don't have enough knowledge about our date, our client.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: We don't have the data to activate these amazing tools that are coming to market.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: And so that is what launched Nomi.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: That was kind of the reality that led me to say, I need to fill this gap.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: If we don't have the knowledge at scale, we can't transform the way people interact and live with money as a tool to help them improve their lives.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: So Nomi is literally like a 25-year journey bundled into an idea that I'm obsessed with.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: And I am gonna work really hard not to go back to the kidnapping insurance conversation.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Like a therapist part of me, right?
7:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're gonna have to talk offline because I am just like conversationally, like, you know, like there's a curiosity, like, around how do we talk about kidnapping insurance?
7:34
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, we will not go on that tangent, although maybe we should do a different episode around how to talk about kidnapping insurance.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Like, what does that what does that look like?
7:43
SPEAKER_02: That is so fascinating.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: And I love just the following that kind of like heart's desire of, hey, this is not working for me.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not doing the thing that I want to be doing, which is being impactful and helping, you know, improve the well-being of others uh there.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's incredibly brave.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm just thinking about like how incredibly brave to like step away from and like, you know, forge kind of a different path and like go a different direction and follow that heart's desire.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: So I think it's incredible, truly incredible.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: And I know you mentioned kind of you know launching Nomi and like that's where you're living now.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: And so let's talk just a little bit about what is Nomi.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: Is it, I mean, it's fintech?
8:27
SPEAKER_02: Is it BFI tech?
8:28
SPEAKER_02: Is it like when people say, like, okay, what is Nomi?
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, tell me what, how do you respond?
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're you're raising what is our biggest challenge.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Nomi is behavioral data infrastructure.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: That is not something people know what that is.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: They can't place it.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: What I'm actually about to uh we're we're working with a positioning firm because positioning is all about you have to go into the slot in someone's brain that they already have and talk about something.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Like until we understood what calendarly, like scheduler was, it didn't really make sense to us.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Only after it came to market, we could understand what that was.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: So this is kind of the dilemma in innovation is you're solving a problem and you're inventing a category.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: We absolutely embed and embrace BFI in the way that we drive engagement for the purpose of real-time consensual trust-based data collection.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: What we want to be and best in the world at is we engage clients to share the best data to help them get more value from their advisor.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: And then we make that data disseminated and we use AI to make it usable by an advisor in action, in a meeting, in a follow-up, to drive a next best action, to drive further discovery.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: So we are a discovery tool, we are an engaging interface, and we're a data platform.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: So you asked if we're kind of a BFI tool.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: And the reason I don't say the answer is yes to that is because I'm familiar with a lot of BFI tools out there in the market.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: And they are primarily frameworks, assessments, surveys, questionnaires.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: They are a version of some sort of a an archetyping or a questionnaire, a survey, an assessment.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And Nomi is not that.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: Nomi actually modeled the way that we engage after non-financial examples.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: We are what we call adventures, a series of modular adventures that are stacked together, modeled after the what we know works in the land of non-financial tech.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: So Nomi is modeled after Noom, Duolingo, Straya.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: Trust me, do I know Duolingo?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Because if we don't complete that every day, good grief.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right, all right.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: That's I'm this is resonating with me.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm tracking.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: So we are changing the way that engagement happens because clients don't like answering long surveys and questionnaires.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: They actually don't complete them.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Nomi has an over 95% completion rate because we don't tax them.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, frankly, we are fun, engaging, short, delightful.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: There's a ton of gamification.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: Like at every turn, there's gamification and up-leveling and badges and rewards, and it's also in their control.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: But more importantly, they're learning about themselves.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: A lot of financial planning tools and assessments kind of get you to just repeat something you already know for the purpose of serving the advisor.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Nomi serves the client and helps the advisor serve the client.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: It's really constructed from a totally different perspective.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: So, okay, I know you know this, but people listening may not know this.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: I use Nomi with clients.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: And one of the firms that I have the privilege of partnering with, adopted Nomi out of the gate, like a few months ago, right?
11:48
SPEAKER_02: I would say a few months ago, right?
11:49
SPEAKER_02: There.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, yeah, let's do this.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, one of the appeals there is that during their onboarding process, they saw a clear value add to how the behavioral data, how the data from Nomi could support their plan delivery, the advice that they're giving, the plan that they're constructing.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: And so I really like the data that kind of comes in and through Nomi.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: Can you talk a little bit more, maybe specifically, like when you say data there?
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Like let's maybe paint a picture of like what kind of data are you are you capturing here?
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Are you highlighting and helping inform the client and and the advisor?
12:38
SPEAKER_01: So I talk about this a lot.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: The easiest way to think about this is if you ask yourself what financial product is right for you, or even what financial product is right for my client, there's only one answer to that question.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: And the answer is it depends.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: Always.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: The answer is always, always, always it depends.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Now, what know me is is what it depends on.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I spent years, in fact, at Microsoft, I went very deep into categorizing client data.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: And what I did is I segmented the eight dimensions of you that manufacture your financial identity that always answer that question.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Is this financial product right for me?
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, we have eight dimensions of your financial identity that help you get to an answer.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: And they are always changing their dynamic because you're a human and you're evolving.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: You can't gather at once and say you're done.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Those dimensions of your financial identity include your values, your attitudes, your demographics, your kind of psychology and history with money.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: These are not all the eight, but they're kind of bundled into lots of different segments of the eight.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: And what we actually capture help individuals articulate their goals in line with that, those dimensions of their financial identity.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: So as they go through this process, the advisor gets goals, but it's built on breadcrumbs that come from the eight dimensions of their financial identity and are always being updated and changed through time.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: So it gets very geeky.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: It kind of started on a napkin-ish with hey, if I just wanted to know what are the dimensions that would help me make a better financial decision or help my advisor help me make a better financial decision, what is the data they need to know?
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: That's what Nomi gathers.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: When I entered, you know, pivoted, started entering into this space and working with advisors and with clients, one of the things that motivated, frustrated, and also kind of inspired to a degree as well is, you know, coming from doing therapy, my question kind of to my is like what information, non-technical information, should an advisor know about a client?
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, what's like the information about them as a human or the way that they think feel due money?
14:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, what is that information that they need?
14:54
SPEAKER_02: And and so what I love about, you know, kind of know me is that it really captures some of that in my mind, like what is that information?
15:02
SPEAKER_02: And this is, you know, should meaning a judgment.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Um for those of you that listen, you know that I'm not really the biggest fan of should.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: And so should is a judgment.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I recognize it.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm shooting on myself right now.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: But what should advisors know about their clients?
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: And Nomi really helps to, I think, to gather that, that information and present it, you know, there.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: Let's maybe I I guess I want to not specific to Nomi exactly, but let's talk a little bit about like why is it important for advisors to have this data, like about it, this behavioral data?
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, why is it important to know about, you know, a client's financial identity, their, you know, motivations, their values, their goals, goals in terms of like not technical, like numbers, goals, but like lifestyle type of goals.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Like, why is that stuff important?
15:50
SPEAKER_02: Why should advisors have that info?
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say one thing about Nomi and then I'm gonna answer your question.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: So, what we learned in deploying and launching and doing research with thousands of individuals and advisors is that advisors don't want the raw data.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: They don't know how to use it.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: And so what we do do in Nomi is we synthesize it and give the advisor this is how you use it.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: It is kind of we mash it together using AI into here's your three conversation starters.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Here's the categorized insights you need to know about their values, their motivations, their goals, their attitudes, their history.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Here are sensitive topics, here's the things you need to know about their partner and how you make sure that each of them feel heard.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Now, this is transitioning into the answer to your question.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Why is it important?
16:33
SPEAKER_01: So, several things.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Number one is there is no lack of research showing that people want to improve their emotional relationship with money.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: And advisors know that behavioral coaching and emotional engagement with their clients is what builds trust.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: It is the difference between a client who is giving you maybe 10% of their portfolio and may fire you next year because you're not living up to it.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: And the all-in client that has that level of trust.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And no matter what you say to them, they are going to say, This guy knows me so well.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: He knows exactly what I want for my family.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: He understands my vision of the future.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Their suggestions are informed by the depth of the relationship we have.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: And it is measured in trust.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: It is measured in how much that advisor can say to that client.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: And the client says, Yeah, I trust you.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: You know me, and you understand me and my household and our version of the future so well that I am gonna take your suggestions and your upsells, and I'm gonna give you net new assets when I come across them.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: And I am going to take all of your suggestions because that is the why behind know me.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: That level of trust is, I will say, the only differentiator in the market.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: They can find an asset allocation anywhere.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: You think about how you compete with somebody's own AI tool that they've been talking to nonstop for the last year.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Who knows their client better, you or their AI?
17:58
SPEAKER_01: If they're gonna put that portfolio into their AI and say, you know, knowing me as you do, how would you reallocate this?
18:06
SPEAKER_01: Pretty safe bet that the AI would do it probably a bit better than an advisor would.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is what we're trying to, we're trying to enable the human advisor to differentiate their business and their practice by going deep.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: And our assumption is a lot of clients don't know how to open up and tell you the answers to those questions.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: We guide them along the journey and we help the client open up and tell you what you need to know to differentiate your practice, convert, win, retain the next generation.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: If you're going through uh MA as an advisor and you're bringing on an entirely new book, we help you deliver a much higher bar of service and allocate resources appropriately to the book that is coming into your practice.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Meet them where they are and give them this incredibly high bar of trust from the get-go, reflecting what matters most to them.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: What I love about these conversations that that I've had at least, I'll speak just for myself, is whether, you know, and this isn't specific to just using the know me results, but when I am asking even just questions around some of this behavioral data, financial identity data, is that, and I ask clients this.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: I will say, have you had a conversation like this before?
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Have you answered questions like this before?
19:24
SPEAKER_02: And most of the time, Marla, it's no, I've never been asked these types of questions before.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I've thought about my values, or yeah, I mean, I've kind of thought like it'd be nice to retire like at 65, but no, like I've not really had this kind of conversation before.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: And so going back to like that trust equity, you know, imagine, you know, being that person where you're delivering a first for a client and it's really meaningful.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: And it speaks to them in such a way of this person cares about me, and they want to understand and get me, right?
20:07
SPEAKER_02: In all the ways that make me human, right?
20:09
SPEAKER_02: It's not that they just care about, you know, my money, managing my money, the returns, optimizing, you know, like all the it's not that they just care like about that.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: And then it's, you know, okay, next call, like I'll see you.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: Like they actually really care about me as a human.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: And so I have really loved, like, when conversations have been focused, especially early on in the relationship, it's usually very new.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: And it just kind of sets the tone then for what the relationship is going to be like.
20:41
SPEAKER_02: Curious, like from like the advisors, like that you work with, you know, even maybe just some of your own experiences too, going back to when you were working in the corporate, like bay field.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: How like do you agree kind of with that?
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, what's your experience been like when it comes to the conversations and being the first and clients saying, like, yeah, I've never had a conversation like this?
21:02
SPEAKER_02: This is really great and it's meaningful.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: So, two things.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: One is from our own research, we do get a lot from clients saying, I've never been asked this question before.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Why has my advisor never asked me this question before?
21:15
SPEAKER_01: But advisors, when they look at Nomi and what we do, they often say, This, I'm the best at this.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: I do this all day long.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: But then when they see Nomi and when they actually see the AI insights, they they recognize there is a consistency and there is a kind of holistic approach that's missed.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: An advisor's job is to build a relationship and they should build the relationship however they can.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: I when I go back into my corporate experience, I will tell you none of us got any training around, you know, behavioral finance and the psychology of money.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: And we were just basically told and often incentivized to sell products.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: And we sold whatever product we were told to sell, right or wrong, for our customers.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: That might be a slight exaggeration, but not much.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Not we're not far off.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: The assumption, even today, and the way advisors are taught is very allocation focused, very, very reliant on when you go into a review meeting, the topic is performance and it's performance against a benchmark.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: There is now a very slow moving, if you look at the big warehouses and the relationships most people have with their advisors, they are not planning relationships.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of people that do planning.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: I personally just went through the process of going through planning and onboarding, and I looked at, I had to go through it twice actually on eMoney.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: And I have to tell you, my relationship was not planning centric.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't exactly where I think advisory needs to go.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: It was still heavily focused on, you know, the allocation, the performance, which is critically important, but that's table stakes.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you need to give me the allocation and the performance in the way that I need it for myself as a business owner, optimizing for tax as somebody who like worked at Microsoft and wants to like not have too much concentration since I was granted Microsoft stock.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Like all of those things, table stakes.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Like you, you don't even have a ticket to the party if you can't do those things.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Now you want to differentiate your business.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: You need to care about me and my family and what we what we want from our future and how we envision.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: I actually I despise the word retirement because it doesn't have meaning until someone gives it meaning.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't give it meaning, you have no idea how to plan.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: There isn't, there's no way you can appropriately plan just using an arbitrary word.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, what eMoney and a lot of the tools do is they use two arbitrary numbers, the age you retire and the age you die.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: There's very little that goes into and what's going to happen at this particular age.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: And how are you going to experience life?
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And where are you going to actually want to have impact?
23:47
SPEAKER_01: And retirement doesn't mean you stop working.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: You may be doing all kinds of different work.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: One of the challenges that I have found, and maybe this is a challenge that you hear or have come across is, you know, advisors will say, Oh, having that, you know, behavioral data, those insights, yes, like I want that.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: I think that's really great.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: I think it is a value add.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: But what do I do once I get it?
24:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, okay, now I know what my clients' values are.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: I understand in a deeper way their goals.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, hear like what, you know, motivates them and maybe what some of their concerns are.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but then how what like what do I do, Marla, once I have all of that information?
24:37
SPEAKER_01: So we learned the hard way that you can't just give them the information.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: So what we offer is conversation starters.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And those conversation starters go into that next meeting after all of that data was gathered, really helping them feel seen, helping the client and the advisor connect at a level of thank you so much for sharing all of that information.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Here's what came up.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: This is what it sounds like is top of mind for you.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about some of the trade-offs.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about some of the things that came up in Nomi.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: So we we use AI to make the data usable in a conversation starter.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: We also use AI to suggest, okay, they shared something about their life.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: What is the next level of discovery you should be doing based off of this information?
25:23
SPEAKER_01: So somebody suggests they are interested in angel investing and their friends and colleagues are like, hey, will you invest in my fund or into this startup group or angels or whatever?
25:35
SPEAKER_01: Great.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: We have a whole module that explores why are you interested in angel investing?
25:39
SPEAKER_01: What draws you to that?
25:41
SPEAKER_01: How much are you interested in putting into an angel investment?
25:43
SPEAKER_01: When?
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Why?
25:44
SPEAKER_01: All of that is additional discovery context that helps the advisor help that client make a life choice.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: We have a whole other one, which I'm sure you would be interested in.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: Meg actually created this one a long time ago.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: If they share information about something going on in their life, a big life event, we have a whole adventure focused on subtracting.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Something's going on in your life.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: How do you use your money to be more present for that thing?
26:08
SPEAKER_01: In our prototype client, our kind of prototype client's parent is uh diagnosed with uh cancer.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: And so they want to cut back on work.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: They want to show up more for their mother.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: They might want to contribute more to philanthropies that are associated with that thing.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: It's so deeply personal.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: And so going deep into that thing that is frankly pop probably consuming their mind.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: How do you make sure that that gets embedded and incorporated into the conversation and you go deeper?
26:36
SPEAKER_01: You don't shy away from it.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: If that's something that they care about and that's all they're thinking about, that is what they want to talk about.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's interesting.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: And I can see where from like a what do I do standpoint, I'm thinking about like life events or just things that come up along the, you know, financial planning journey and like the relationship and just how helpful it is to have guidance there, which, you know, I love being able to do that and give that and believe, you know, that having that support and guidance can be incredibly valuable for the advisor and also for the client as well.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: There.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: So, okay, there's these kind of life events, you know, in terms of what do we do with this information, right?
27:20
SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, here are some journey, right?
27:22
SPEAKER_02: If these are the things that come up, like here's how we can, you know, kind of guide you through that.
27:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, I guess you mentioned like some of this is a living, I don't want to say living document, but living with a living breathing platform.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: How often, like when we think about when I think about things like values and goals and like motivations, attitudes, like beliefs, all of that, like how often do you feel like clients should be having those conversations or advisors should be having those conversations again with clients and maybe updating the platform or updating just the plan or the information?
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: So what's beautiful about the way we've constructed it as the answer, like like the answer to the question before, it depends.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Like if I'm gonna ask you about your confidence and your financial well-being, maybe I want to ask you every year, but I might want to also ask you when the market is tanking.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, there is a point in time that I can't presume that is the right time to ask you, how are you feeling about your money?
28:26
SPEAKER_01: And you know, my market could tank a couple times a year, but I probably want to ask you about your confidence at least once a year or so.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: If I want to ask you about your goals, probably before every review meeting.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Now, how often do you have a review meeting?
28:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: For some people it's quarterly, some people it's trimesterly, some people it is annually.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: So probably before you go into that meeting, you need to do an update on articulating your goals, your vision of the future, what's changed.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Then I would say there's things like life events that don't follow a set schedule.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: So what Nomi offers to advisors is you can actually dictate the cadence based off of the data and what's happening in an individual's life and what's happening in the cadence that you need to stay connected and what's happening in the environment around them.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: And different adventures have different cadences.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: And that's totally normal and expected.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Your values might not change that often.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: And so your values, you may go through an experience of being able to articulate your values and then you just validate.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, you might validate them, you know, at a regular clip.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Again, confidence, goals, attitudes, life events, those don't have a schedule.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And so you have to kind of be there and be able to gather that data as those things have a risk of changing.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Why?
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not there when that changes, that's your turn.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: That is when you're about to lose that client, because that is when they needed you and you weren't there.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: And so if you train the client and you're always in front of them with a platform that is saying, you can you can come in here at any time, or I'm gonna nudge you.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna nudge you at a cadence or a clip, or when the market's tanking, or when the market's doing great, or when I think you're about to sell your business, or when you had a baby, or when your child had a baby, or when I see that you relocated.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: There's all different ways where you can nudge the client to gather information at the point that matters.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: I think those expectations are really important to can be really important to set up from the get-go, from the beginning.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: If though, let's just say, and I'm, you know, hoping that this is true, and I'm gonna manifest it, that there is an advisor listening right now, and they're like, holy cow, this is super awesome, super cool.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: And I want to give this a go, but I mean, I've already got existing relationships.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: And wouldn't that be just kind of awkward to, you know, be like, hey, I've known you for five years.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Now I want to get some of this behavioral data.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, like how you might coach or suggest or give, you know, some feedback there on advisors who are already in established relationships, but you know, want to give it a try and try to get some of that behavioral data.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a lot of customers that are using Nomi with established relationships, with existing clients.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: So there are several different use cases.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: One of them may be hey, we have a new tool.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: One of the cool things that we do also is we help advisors really deeply get to know the partner, the kids, the broader household.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: And we offer advisors insights.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: This this feature is about to be launched.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: It's you're getting a preview here.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: So when like different when different throw in my headfell, like, oh, it's very exciting.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: So when different members of a household go through, they each have to do it independently.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: But what Nomi offers is AI that synthesizes the insights so that every single individual feels heard, whether or not they speak up in the meeting.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: So going back to your question, for an existing relationship or a partnership, it is an up-leveling of service.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: It is, hey, we're trying a new tool.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: We really want to make sure we understand what's most important to you and your family.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of triggers that could cause, hey, I saw you just retired.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: We want to check in.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: We want to see what's new and what's exciting.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: We saw your kids just moved out of the house and they went to college.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: This is a good time for us to re-level set and do kind of a values and goals type of an assessment and a session with Nomi.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: The other big reasons are you are selling your business and joining another advisory firm.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: As we go through this change, we want to make sure you, client, get the absolute best experience possible.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: So we are gonna be reaching out and understanding what matters most to you so that we allocate this new set of new, improved, deeper, better features and products and services to you so that the advisor retains those clients.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: And so that book of business that's acquired sticks around.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: The other really important one is advisor succession.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I might know that client for the last 35 years, but the person I'm successing to doesn't.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: And so there's an opportunity to say, the way I got to know you 35 years ago, I'm sure has changed a lot.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna introduce Nomi.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: It will help us really level set on where are you today and where do you want to go in the next six months, 18 months.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: And that's so important, especially when there's change happening on both sides, on the advisor side and the client side.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: So there's all kinds of use cases that are extremely relevant for existing clients as well as for prospecting and new onboardings.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I, you know, not specific to know me, but when I have advisors that I'm coaching or consulting with, that question comes up a lot of like, oh, like, but you know, I kind of have known this client for a really long time.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: And like now I'm gonna ask them about values, like that just feels you like, you know, I don't want my client to feel like I've not been listening or like paying attention.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Does that happen though?
33:46
SPEAKER_01: Because you've done this for a long time, Ashley.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Does that actually happen where the client's like, why are they asking me this?
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Don't they know me already?
33:54
SPEAKER_02: Funny you should say that, Marla, because usually my response is something, something around that.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, you coming to your client at any point in the relationship and just saying, hey, you know what?
34:07
SPEAKER_02: We haven't talked about values in a long time.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: And while, yes, I know a lot about you, and I could make a lot of assumptions about what it is that you do value, you know, what are some of your motivations, worries, like concerns.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: While I could make some assumptions, would you be willing to maybe have an updated, you know, revised just kind of conversation?
34:32
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we can just make sure we're all on the same page here.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: And so I would do this therapeutically, like with clients from time to time, especially like long-term, like established clients, and from time to be like, hey, look, I've known you for a really long time, but can we just pull back for a second and just let's make sure that assumptions aren't made and that we're on the same page.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: We're tracking, like we're on the same track here.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, from my experience, both clinically and in coaching advisors and working now on the finding, like clients are like, yeah, okay, that sounds great.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: But there's a why.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: The reason I want to ask you this is because so that I can show up better for you, so that I can be here for you, so that I can improve the level of service I'm giving to you and your family, your partner, your kids as you navigate through the changes in life that are gonna happen.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: So it is not because I just want to know.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: It's not a uh a very greedy, eager feed me with data type of an approach.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: It is help me serve you, let me let me better understand you so I can show up better for you.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: So I used to say to clients, like, help me help you, uh, help me to help you, uh, is what I is what I would say to them.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: And this is very, I think, very similar, reminiscent of that.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: And look, if it maybe that's not comfortable for you to say uh to a client, I also think that it's okay for, you know, you, advisor listener, to say, look, I'm learning, learning some new things.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: And that's part of just, you know, kind of professional growth.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: And I'd like to maybe try some of this stuff out selfishly, right?
36:06
SPEAKER_02: It would be helpful for me.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, would you be willing to just have a different conversation with me and just try it out?
36:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, I also think that's okay.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: And there are some clients that would be like, yeah, I would be willing, you know, to do that, to very vulnerably say, like, I'm learning how to be a better advisor and I kind of want to take this risk here and do this.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh, would you be willing to go there with me?
36:29
SPEAKER_02: I I think most clients, I'll knock on with, I don't want to say all because I don't like to speak in absolutes, but you know, most clients would be thrilled to have that kind of conversation, even if it doesn't show on the outside of their face.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: I think it would mean a lot.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Even more vulnerably, even to say, look, we have been allocating your portfolio and tracking your performance over the last five, 10 years, whatever it may be.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: We recognize that the market is making that level of service pretty commonplace.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: And we want to do more.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: We want to show up for you.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: And we want to actually, yeah, let's write that one down.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Like we want to be your partner as you navigate through all of the changes in technology.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: And we know you can, we know that you can go pay Vanguard 30 bips and get a financial plan.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: And so we need to actually reach a higher bar together.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: This is gonna help us get there.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, going back to that table stakes, right?
37:24
SPEAKER_02: Like some of the technical aspect of an advisor's, I mean, it's gonna become table stake.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Like AI can, yeah.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, all advisors are scared to death of AI.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: So prove you're better.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, yeah, I think that anyway, we would that's a different conversation.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: And and yeah, okay, Marla.
37:43
SPEAKER_02: All right.
37:43
SPEAKER_02: I love the conversation that we're having and appreciate so much you sharing about know me and just data, behavioral data, human data, and how that can support the overall client advisor relationship and improve, you know, really improve client well-being.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: I know we didn't directly talk about that, but indirectly it improves client well-being.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: Can you share with us before we wrap up a little bit, like, you know, where can people find you?
38:09
SPEAKER_02: What's going on like with Nomi?
38:11
SPEAKER_02: This is just kind of your time to talk a little bit more specifically to where folks can come and find and learn more about you and Nomi.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: The easiest is Nomi.com, K-N-O-M-E-E.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: There's no W.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: That is a very hard thing.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many people try to throw the W in there.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: And uh, all over LinkedIn, we are right now in the process.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: And by the time this airs, we will be launched with a new freemium offer for RIAs.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: So RIAs can try know me for free for a month with five clients.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: They get the AI insights, they get all of the categorized ways that they could connect deeper, better with their clients and the households around those clients.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: And then after they go through that month, then they'll have an opportunity to subscribe or not.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: We also work with enterprises.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: And so we have one enterprise pilot happening now, and we've got several enterprises.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: We've got 10 in our pipeline.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: People recognize, advisors recognize how important it is to go deep into the emotional relationship with money.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: And we can we create the infrastructure for that relationship.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: So find me.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: I also have a podcast, Knowing Me, Knowing You, which Ashley should totally come and chat on.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: We get into all kinds of things.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: I've had futurists come and speak, financial therapists, and a whole lot of advisors that talk about how they got where they are and how important it is to get into the emotions in order to drive a thriving business.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: It's a great podcast.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: You should definitely check it out.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: And I am really excited about this freemium offer.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as someone who's been using Nomi for a few months now in the onboarding process, co-facilitating goals and values discussion.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: I have really enjoyed being able to use the results from Nomi as just jumping off points for having deeper, deeper conversations with clients.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: So I encourage all of you out there, we'll make sure that we have the links to those in the show notes to go on and try out Nomi.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Give it a give it a try.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm 99.9% confident that you're going to like it, that you're going to enjoy it and find it valuable.
40:20
SPEAKER_02: So go check that out.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: And thank you to all of you out there.
40:24
SPEAKER_02: Thank you to Marla.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: Thank you coming on.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: I've appreciated appreciated and enjoyed just all of your insights and wisdom.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: Thank you to all of you listening here with us.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for allowing us into your uh mind, into your ears from wherever it is that you are listening to.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: And if you found value in today's episode, I would love to stay connected with you.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Marla would love to stay connected with you as you go out into your week, my friends, as you wrap up your day.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: Remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
40:57
SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.
41:21
SPEAKER_02: Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: You'll find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice.
41:41
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41:45
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41:47
SPEAKER_02: And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.