Latest / ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong / Why Organizers are Losing Money? (S05 Ep57)

Transcript

Why Organizers are Losing Money? (S05 Ep57) · ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong

0:00
A lot of the times organizers, teachers, promoters, they are
0:04
running events at a loss. The more you charge less for
0:10
something, the more you create the perception that this thing
0:14
costs less. If people can pay $6 for a
0:18
coffee, they can pay $20.00 for a social if they understand the
0:22
value. I do think that some people
0:24
think that dance is just like whatever.
0:26
Why should you pay for dance? Events that are sold out or
0:29
events that are that are close to selling out and not breaking
0:32
even. That's very sad and.
0:33
That's very sad. Things are expensive, things are
0:35
getting expensive. Like I just always say people
0:38
are paying $7.00 for a coffee. Jesus Christ, if you are.
0:41
Willing to help her and give a hand.
0:43
We are willing to give you a discount.
0:45
Yeah. The last thing I think I would
0:47
share about all of these, Alison, is that we need to get
0:50
really good at saying no. What is the true value of a
0:57
dense class or social? Why do we pay $20.00 for a meal
1:01
but hesitate to pay the same for five hours of dancing and
1:05
entertainment? Well, let's find out.
1:08
Hello. Hello everyone, and welcome back
1:10
to Zook Nerds. In this episode we are talking
1:14
about a difficult topic in the dance industry, the financial
1:19
health of our dance community. It's all about perception,
1:23
simply because often the perceived value doesn't match
1:27
the real costs. Organizers, teachers and
1:31
promoters are often losing money and it's not sustainable.
1:36
But there are solutions. So join us as we explore how we
1:40
can educate our communities and implement simple systems to help
1:45
everyone understand the true value and cost of dance events.
1:50
So let's go. Hello, hello everyone and
2:02
welcome back. My name is Alison Sanji and
2:07
let's welcome back our beautiful Co host.
2:10
Hello, Gee brother. Hello Alison.
2:13
Hello everybody. Welcome back.
2:15
Very excited for this episode. And you know that Gee doesn't
2:19
say that lightly. Yes, this is something that
2:22
we've been wanting to talk for quite a long time, but we wanted
2:27
to form our thoughts and opinions about this.
2:32
And today we're going to be talking about the perceived
2:35
value, that idea of how much does something cost?
2:40
How much does a dance class cost or a social cost, a Weekender
2:45
cost, a festival cost? And how does that compare to
2:50
everything else in our world? Because, and here's why, the
2:55
big, big, big, big, big why? A lot of the times organizers,
3:01
teachers, promoters, they are running events at a loss.
3:07
What do I mean? They are running events and
3:10
losing money and quite possibly taking it out of their own day
3:16
job or maybe their regular classes to subsidize and to
3:23
complement that Weekender or that festival or that social.
3:28
And as teachers ourselves as well as organizers, but as
3:34
teachers, we feel bad. We feel like, what can I do to
3:38
help? Like there's only so much that a
3:41
teacher can do by giving a discount on their fees or by
3:46
giving extra hours for the same price and many things.
3:51
But really that's another conversation that we can have
3:55
another time. I think today's main topic is
3:59
really how we educate and how we build a culture to make people
4:06
understand a little bit more the value of a dance class or of a
4:11
dance anything. Because to me it's really mind
4:18
boggling when a person wants to come to a social and the social
4:24
goes for five hours with DJ with beautiful venue, lights, air
4:29
conditioning and all of the things and they think that
4:34
$20.00 is too much. Like you're getting 4-5 hours of
4:40
entertainment in an industry that runs at a bare minimum in
4:48
terms of profits and $20.00 is too much.
4:52
But most people would happily go on Uber Eats and order a take
4:57
out and pay 20 bucks for, I don't know, a burrito plus a
5:03
drink plus $5 delivery fee plus 25% tip.
5:08
And it's OK. But why not five hours of
5:12
entertainment in a social then? That's just the tip of the
5:16
iceberg. So I'm just going to give the
5:18
mic to Gee before I talk for the next hour because I have too
5:22
much to say. So, Gee, tell us what's in your
5:25
mind about this? There is a lot in my mind about
5:29
this. I think the experience of having
5:33
the local school, the local studio and organizing local
5:37
events and being a teacher at weekends in other cities, being
5:43
a teacher in festivals, being a teacher in retreats, and also
5:46
because of the curiosity to know how well the event is going
5:50
financially. I ask the questions to the
5:53
organizers, sometimes to the organized that I know more, that
5:55
I trust more, or that we have been in a longer professional
6:00
relationship. I asked, were you able to break
6:02
even or were you able to make a profit?
6:05
And sometimes, yes. Lately, however, I've been
6:09
noticing that like Alison was saying, people are operating at
6:13
a bare minimum, right? I think that was the board that
6:16
you said. Now I just some very minimum
6:18
almost operating at a loss, sometimes operating at a loss,
6:22
witnessing full events or almost full events, events that are
6:26
almost sold out and they are still losing money, you know,
6:32
and that thing makes me so sad. It's because I know the pain of
6:38
losing money when you organize the events because you have put
6:41
so many hours into the thing. You are organizing an event for
6:46
months and during the event you are on the goal all the three
6:53
days. If it's a weekends, you are on
6:55
the goal for 72 hours. Even if the events like 4 hours
6:59
a day, 4 hours of classes. The moment that you wake up, the
7:02
moment that you fall asleep, you are on it because someone cannot
7:06
come and you need to find another person and then you need
7:09
to reimburse and then you need to refund and then you need to
7:12
something happen in the venues. There's all these things are
7:14
going on. So for the amount of work that
7:17
is required to put something together, I think we can do
7:22
something about changing the perception of how much that
7:27
event costs or how much that event can charge, how much you
7:32
can pay for that event. We do have the matter of
7:36
affordability to take into account, of course, the average
7:41
income of a certain place. Yeah.
7:44
Like how people spend their money in a given location
7:48
changes a lot and also changes the way that we can charge
7:53
people, the way that we can present our fees or the way that
7:57
we can set the tickets. All of that considered, I still
8:02
think, and I soon, I think as we're talking about this now, I
8:05
think we agree on that point. I still think that the teachers
8:10
and organizers can over time, develop people's perception of
8:18
value of the contents that is being presented to them, the
8:22
content that is being brought. The other thing that we have
8:24
been noticing is the more you charge, let's say less or
8:31
something, the more you do that, the more you create the
8:35
perception that this thing costs less.
8:39
So when then you need to charge a little bit more or more, then
8:44
the people are going to complain.
8:45
And of course they're going to complain because for a year you
8:49
have been charging this much and then they get used to that
8:52
amount and then they charge a little bit more.
8:54
Oh, it's too expensive. And then I want to finish here
8:59
so you can talk about this because I know you are ready.
9:04
The thing people here don't pay more than XXX for an event which
9:11
I totally understand, completely understands.
9:14
In our experience, I truly think that we can slowly develop
9:19
people's perception to see that in this situation we can charge
9:24
more in this intensive here, the way that is laid out, the way
9:28
that is carried out, the way that is designed, we can charge
9:32
more in this weekend here, we can charge less in this social
9:36
here we can charge more. So create this understanding
9:39
that some things cost more, some things cost less.
9:43
And then I hope we can all break even.
9:45
At least break even and guy breaking even is.
9:49
Basically not paying. To have to work.
9:52
See the absurdity of that breaking even is you being 00.
9:57
You worked your ass off and it didn't need to pay.
10:00
So I think it's only fair that we can at least get some profits
10:07
because it's so much work, my people, so much work.
10:11
So yeah, go ahead, Addison. I'm getting excited too.
10:17
And just for clarity here for everyone out there, I know a lot
10:21
of you understand business and you may be very much into
10:25
entrepreneurship and all of that, But in the dance
10:28
community, when we're talking about breaking even, we're
10:31
talking about the organizer taking nothing, zero.
10:36
We're not talking about breaking even after the organizer pays
10:40
themselves. We're talking about just paying
10:43
for venue, flights, food, artist fees and whatever is related to
10:49
the event directly. All.
10:52
Of the months of organization promotion, graphic designing,
10:57
responding to texts, emails of like, where's the schedule?
11:02
What time does it start? All of that unpaid to the
11:05
organizer. We're not talking about breaking
11:07
even after organizer fees, because most of the organizers
11:13
in the dance community never even consider that they could
11:17
make money out of it. And I know that is my passion.
11:20
Yeah, yeah. And I know that for myself, most
11:24
of the events that I've organized in my life, including
11:28
festivals like Berzooki, they're all about.
11:32
I just don't want to lose money. Yeah, that's all.
11:36
You know, Berzooki is a special case because it is a
11:38
not-for-profit event, but even weekenders and things that I've
11:42
organized in the past, they're all just very much like, I don't
11:46
care all of the time that I have spent on this, as long as I
11:51
don't have to take any of my other income to put into this,
11:57
I'm happy because the community's growing, the
11:59
community's happy, and I always consider that as an investment,
12:04
but it's not sustainable. It's just not sustainable.
12:08
So we need to change the way we do things.
12:11
We need to change the perception of the dance community that if
12:17
you pay $200 for a festival, why should you pay $200 for a
12:22
Weekender? Well, because you don't get the
12:26
same service. Just think about it, in a
12:29
festival, you're getting like 100 people in the classroom, 150
12:35
people in the classroom. OK, maybe a smaller 170 people
12:39
in the classroom. Do you actually get the same
12:42
attention that you would get on a weekend there with 20 people,
12:46
with 25 people on a weekend there where you have the same
12:51
artist for 6:00 or 8:00 or 12 hours that crafted those classes
12:59
for that Weekender? A festival is different.
13:02
It's completely different. It's not the same.
13:06
When you go to a music festival, you pay maybe $200 and you get,
13:11
I don't know, 10 different shows, but you still pay $200 to
13:15
watch one artist in one show that is going to last two hours
13:20
in a stadium. And the actual musical festival
13:23
will last a whole day. So when you look at it, the
13:27
Weekender is kind of a similar comparison because you're
13:31
getting more of one thing of one person, and that's why it gets a
13:37
little more expensive. Plus you're getting a lot of
13:40
less people in the same venue. So I think it's all about
13:44
packaging, right? Like I said, Oh, but people
13:48
don't pay more than these people don't pay more than that.
13:52
Look, in our experience, it's all about how you educate the
13:56
community, right? If people can pay $6 for a
14:01
coffee, they can pay $20.00 for a social if they understand the
14:07
value. If they don't understand the
14:09
value, they obviously not going to think it's worth it.
14:13
So our part in the community as teachers, promoters, organizers
14:18
is to slowly educate the people who are part of our community
14:23
and let them know. Sometimes we just have to let
14:26
them know so they understand. For example, a lot of the times
14:31
in festivals, weekenders and socials, people go like, hey, I
14:35
can only do one day. And at least for most of my
14:41
weekenders, I always sit with the organizer and I talk to them
14:45
how they want to organize this. And I asked them, I say, can we
14:49
please make sure that everybody does the entire weekend OK?
14:53
Because the Weekender is that I do.
14:56
They're always 100% custom and crafted for that community, for
15:03
what they want and what they need.
15:06
I don't just travel around teaching the same combo I taught
15:09
in the last 10 cities. Never.
15:11
So I asked them, Friday, Saturday and Sunday is
15:15
mandatory. Sure, some places that work, but
15:19
other places don't work. So then I asked the organizer,
15:22
can we please make sure that we can at least have them commit to
15:27
a progression? This is going to be a special
15:30
Weekender. This is going to be a
15:32
transformative Weekender. We need people to take this
15:34
seriously. If they don't take it seriously,
15:38
then they are not for this Weekender.
15:41
So then the second option that Ioffer is can you make sure that
15:46
if they want to do Sunday, they have to do Saturday and Friday?
15:50
If they want to do Saturday and not Sunday, they have to do
15:54
Friday. But if they can only do one day,
15:57
they can only do Friday. Oh, but I have this person
16:01
they've whatever been teaching, been dancing, been to the moon
16:06
and back. They can only do Sunday.
16:09
No, I'm sorry. No, because the things that I'm
16:12
going to be talking on Friday and Saturday are extremely
16:16
necessary for the success of the classes and the experience of
16:22
everyone who comes on Sunday. This person who shows up on
16:25
Sunday is going to completely destroy the flow.
16:29
Payless and affect the experience for everyone else who
16:34
was there Saturday and Friday and paid full price.
16:39
I don't think that's fair. I'd rather not have that person
16:42
there. I'd rather have less people.
16:45
But this group is there and they are going to understand how we
16:51
got to the Sunday topics, how we got to that level.
16:55
Of course I'm going to say this. I know that this is very much of
17:00
A dream that as a teacher, you cannot expect that every
17:05
weekend. You cannot tell every organizer
17:09
to do this. Or if you are an organizer,
17:12
that's not possible everywhere. I understand this, but that's
17:17
why I also select the places I go.
17:20
I want to go to the places that can do the work that I want to
17:23
do in a way that the community is going to feel this long
17:29
lasting transformation that in three or six months I come back
17:33
and I see it, I feel it. So in the end, for the
17:38
promoters, we have to actually spend a lot of time with them.
17:42
When I'm organizing those kind of things, I spend a lot of time
17:45
with the promoters. Like last Sunday I had a meeting
17:49
with an organizer who wants to bring me to a Weekender and we
17:53
talked about all of this and I told them, look, do this, do
17:57
this, do this, tell them this, tell them this, tell them that
18:01
to make sure that people understand and that they educate
18:06
the community. Because I think that's really
18:09
what's missing. I do think that some people
18:13
think that dance is just like, whatever, why should you pay for
18:15
dance? There's a few people like that
18:18
in the community, but majority, they just really don't
18:20
understand what it takes and the costs that are involved with
18:26
everything that we do. And I think that's a much bigger
18:30
issue that we have to face in the community because so many
18:35
organizers and teachers in advance are just stopping and
18:39
they are not continuing simply because there's not enough
18:44
people supporting and valuing it enough.
18:48
That's not what we want, right? We want the community to grow,
18:52
so we need something to change. Yeah.
18:54
And it's one of those things that can be very easily over
18:58
correction. That like.
19:00
People might listen to this episode.
19:02
You're like, OK, let me adjust the prices.
19:04
Let me adjust the things in there.
19:06
Slowly. Slowly.
19:08
Yeah. Then if it's very sudden, it's
19:11
not going to work because people do get used to paying a certain
19:15
amount, like they expect something to cost something.
19:19
Yeah, our experience here has been incremental slow change in
19:27
that perspective. There are a couple things to
19:29
implement that I think can be really helpful.
19:32
For example, we don't accept Venmo payments or like several
19:40
different forms of payments. I know from a customer
19:44
perspective is very good for you to make it easier for the
19:48
customer in the sense the way they can pay.
19:51
For us, actually it's way harder and it starts to open all these
19:58
avenues and all these different ways and different forms and
20:03
different amounts. So establishing A unified way of
20:06
paying. Through like a platform or if
20:10
it's only Vamo, for example, for the people in the US, it's only
20:13
Vamo and it's this much, you know, that actually makes a
20:18
difference. It made a difference here for
20:21
us. People would come at the door.
20:24
Oh, can I pay at the door? Oh, we have to log in and pay
20:27
through the platform and it is an added step.
20:31
And sometimes people get frustrated with that added step.
20:34
But again, is the think of developing a culture, developing
20:39
this new approach to how things are done in its basic forms, for
20:44
example, paying for this thing. And there it's easier for you to
20:48
blame this system. Like, no, we have to go through
20:51
the system and the system is this and we pay.
20:55
And if the amount is this much, oh, can I get a discount?
20:59
Like, oh, maybe let me see here. And sometimes we do give
21:02
discounts, discount codes given very specific situations, right?
21:07
What I've been noticing is that organizer are opening several
21:13
exceptions for several people. And then in the end of the day,
21:17
out of, I don't know, 30 people in the room, maybe five of those
21:22
people, 5 to 10 of those people did the full price, paid the
21:27
full ticket. All the rest has some sort of
21:31
discount or some sort of special condition, you know.
21:36
And then at the end of the day, guys, we are having full events
21:39
that don't break even, events that are sold out, they are not
21:43
breaking even or events that are close to selling out and not
21:46
breaking even. That's very sad.
21:49
And that's very sad. So we are trying to make dance
21:53
more accessible. We are making an effort to do
21:56
that. And then we do provide ways for
21:59
people to come into the dance to take the classes.
22:02
And I find this such a noble effort to say I just want the
22:06
person to take the class right now.
22:08
I don't care if they cannot pay, I just want them to come.
22:12
And I find that so beautiful to me, aligning that desire for
22:17
that person to come with whether or not that person who is coming
22:22
is going to understand the value of what you are giving.
22:27
Then we're all for it. Because sometimes you really
22:31
want someone to come, but the person doesn't understand the
22:33
value. But then they come and they're
22:35
not engaged. They come and they're not
22:38
contributing in the way that you thought at first that they
22:42
would. And that's the situation like
22:46
you spending some time observing, spending some time
22:50
noticing if that person that you want to give more is ready to
22:55
receive more and it's going to receive more and contribute to
22:58
the thing that you are putting out.
23:01
And again, that they think of balance, the thing of
23:03
observation, very hard not to makeover corrections very hard
23:06
not to say. Oh, OK, so now nobody comes for
23:09
free, nobody comes with a discount.
23:11
It's not that at all. It's more giving more time to
23:15
observe, to notice, and then give those special conditions to
23:19
those who will receive them and will take advantage of them and
23:23
then give back to the community in some shape or form.
23:27
To us here at several levels, at the level of the regular
23:31
classes, at the level of the weekenders and bigger events is
23:36
really creating this culture of perceiving that the value of the
23:42
thing that you're offering changes depending on the
23:45
circumstance. The regular class has this
23:47
value. The Weekender has this value.
23:49
The Weekender with several instructors has this value.
23:52
The weekend with one instructor has this value.
23:55
This social here is this much has this value.
23:58
So it's just the developing this over time.
24:02
And again, I repeat, this is over time.
24:06
Yeah, I just don't remember how long it took us to develop the
24:10
culture of the assessments between levels.
24:13
Oh yeah, yeah, at. First it was a little bumpy, but
24:17
now people ask when is the assessment?
24:20
People know the assessment exists.
24:22
People wait for the assessment. People want to do the
24:25
assessment. At first it was like we were
24:28
separating the ones who can reach God and the ones who never
24:33
reach God. It was never that, but people
24:36
made us feel like we were creating this division.
24:39
No, we're just setting standards, thank you very much.
24:42
And if we cannot understand that we have standards, then I guess
24:47
this is not the right place for you.
24:49
Simple as that. We have standards for our
24:51
levels, for our classes. When you pay $200 to join a
24:54
dance class, do you want people who are not supposed to be
24:58
there, who has no idea of their basics and timing to be there?
25:03
No, you don't. That's why you also need to do
25:05
an assessment to make sure that you are not making somebody's
25:10
experience worse by being on that class.
25:12
Exactly, exactly. It's like it's one of those
25:15
things like, oh, I want everybody to have the right to
25:18
this thing, but not in my neighborhood, you know, kind of
25:21
situation. Not in my neighborhood.
25:23
I. Know everybody should be
25:25
assessed, but I don't have to. But I don't have.
25:27
To like, I shouldn't. No, I deserve to be here.
25:31
Yeah, that was like a big shift for us.
25:35
It is so beneficial, right? The other thing too, we really
25:41
stopped and that might see a little controversial people.
25:45
So hang on that. We really stopped asking people
25:48
what they want to learn, surveys and like.
25:51
What would you like the next course to be about?
25:55
Yeah, when we're like, coming up with new summer courses or
25:59
special courses, you know, like for so many times we were
26:03
thinking, oh, you know, like the students are asking for this
26:06
day. Students are asking for that.
26:08
So let's do a survey bro. Yep.
26:11
We'll do the survey and we'll get like, guys, I remember the
26:15
numbers. Yeah, they are in my head.
26:18
We did a survey and we have 78 responses to the survey and we
26:23
had topics of things that we wanted people to choose for the
26:27
next class and 54 people out of 78 choose this particular topic.
26:34
And then we very confidently open the course.
26:37
You're like, Oh my God, he's going to sell out immediately.
26:40
He's going to be amazing, but I have no issues at all.
26:43
Not only they did not sell out, but we had time filling out the
26:47
minimum and that was very confusing.
26:49
We like guys, 54 people said they would do the course and
26:54
then we did in the next cycle, we did it again and it happened
26:58
again. And then I think it was you.
27:00
And then I just understand guys, we need to, we need to, no,
27:04
we're just going to cut it out, put out the horse that we think
27:07
they need and that's going to be it.
27:10
And there was it. And then I've been noticing when
27:13
we go to cities that normally I received from the organizers a
27:17
list of topics that people would like to learn more.
27:21
And those topics are in mind. And we start the class with
27:25
those topics. But very often the moment that I
27:29
show what I'm excited about, they forget what was the thing
27:34
in the 1st place. And that comes again, the
27:37
teaching. The Jamal OSHA we used to share
27:41
with us in the teacher training is that the students of dance
27:45
will show excitement about what you show excitement for.
27:50
And that's one piece of wisdom that I have been taking along
27:55
with me that we have been taking not ever since I started
27:59
teaching, but mostly after having this realization that
28:03
came with the service when we did those surveys and realizing
28:06
that the topics that people wanted were not filling up, but
28:10
the topics that we thought would be good for them, they were all
28:14
filling up. So like, oh, let's continue on
28:16
this path here. It's very hard because people
28:19
don't know what they don't know and they don't know what they
28:22
want. Most of the times.
28:24
I don't know. There's so many don't knows.
28:26
Like, yeah, they think they do. We think we do.
28:29
We think we don't. It's very, very confusing.
28:33
But what we need to is to set reasons why we do things like we
28:38
talk in the previous episodes, why you're doing it, how you're
28:43
doing it, what for if you're organizing a Weekender just for
28:49
yourself? Sometimes I see organizers who
28:52
want to bring this cup or that cup when I'm like, why you have
28:57
like 5 students? Oh, you know, because if we
29:00
bring them, then the dance is going to pick up here.
29:02
A lot of people going to see it. Yeah, but it's going to be like
29:05
6 months of work and you're going to have to raise like
29:08
$10,000 worth of sales and there's only 5 people who dance
29:14
Zook in your community. Like, don't do it.
29:17
Please don't do it. So many organizers come to us
29:21
and say, Alison, I don't know what to do.
29:24
I've lost like, more than $10,000 over the last few
29:28
weekenders that I made because I was trying to, you know, put the
29:32
energy into my community. And I'm so thankful, but at the
29:37
same time, so sad to hear these kind of things because
29:41
unfortunately, those organizers are trying their best, but at
29:45
the same time, they're lost. Because one thing is for sure,
29:51
in my opinion, you need to understand who you're bringing
29:54
and if that kind of artist will actually help the community.
29:59
Or are that kind of artist a sugar high kind of artist?
30:05
Again, another topic for another episode.
30:08
But there are artists and there are teachers that will really
30:13
help a community when they need sugar, and there are artists and
30:17
teachers that will really help the community when they need the
30:20
veggies. And as an organizer and as a
30:22
teacher, you need to know what kind of food your community
30:26
needs right now. Sometimes they need a little
30:29
boost. So yes, bringing somebody who's
30:32
going to teach them some new things and some exciting things
30:36
that will probably maybe excite them to come back and take
30:41
classes and train. But if your community is at the
30:44
very beginnings and they still really haven't found that
30:48
passion yet, I think you better bring an artist who is going to
30:52
show the essence of the dance, the essence of partner
30:56
connection, the essence of what a dance community feels like.
31:01
And why do we love it so much instead of the sugar high kind
31:07
of caffeine high moves? Because these people are still
31:11
not really fully invested and in love with dance.
31:16
So different teachers for different purposes.
31:18
All valid, but I think this is just a little something that I
31:21
wanted to say that is related more to like a different type of
31:25
episode because I think this episode is really hard to stay
31:31
like in one track because everything is related.
31:35
Honestly this is so hard to stay on track here guys.
31:38
Yes, it's a very valuable, very important part of the ecosystem
31:43
that we have. I think the more we talk here,
31:46
Alison, I'm noticing the thought that is coming to my head
31:51
consistently, which is the matter of something done over
31:55
the course of time, like really taking its time to develop that
31:59
perception, to develop that awareness.
32:02
We talked about this in one episode, when to grow a
32:05
community. Somebody gets an artist and
32:08
there's a weekend there. There's a weekend there with the
32:10
purpose of growing community. We talked about this one episode
32:13
before. Yeah.
32:14
And for us, I think this ties to the perception of value because
32:20
when you bring someone to spark the growth in the community
32:25
really early, when the community has 10 people, you don't have
32:29
the desired effect because you don't have enough people.
32:31
You simply don't have enough people.
32:33
And the people who are going to come for the weekend, there are
32:35
people who are already aware that the deaths exist in the 1st
32:38
place. The thing is, when you bring
32:41
that couple, you already start the process of developing
32:45
awareness of how much that thing costs.
32:48
So in the very early days, you already setting a standard of
32:52
cost about an event. And then for example, if it's
32:55
early days and you only have 5 people, you want them to come.
32:58
So you might put it very cheap. And then so from there you start
33:03
developing this thing. Even with the international
33:06
super famous artists, it's $100 for 10 hours of class, you know,
33:14
or $70.00 for eight hours of class.
33:18
So you start there, you started developing the perception in
33:21
order not to start to like what is the expression in English, in
33:25
Portuguese is shooting your own foot.
33:27
Those should have set on your foot if you have in mind the
33:31
long term, and that might be the biggest take away the long term,
33:35
the long term development of the scene.
33:38
And you do offer events like that and you want them to be
33:41
doable, feasible. You want not only people to be
33:44
able to pay for the event, but you also want it to break even
33:48
and very fairly make profits to pay for the amount of work that
33:52
you put from those early days, perceiving is it the time to
33:57
bring people? Is it the time to do this?
34:00
Do I have enough people to do this?
34:03
And when I do this, I need to realize what is fair to charge
34:07
to these people and combine the wanting them to come with
34:12
wanting it to be feasible, wanting it to be doable in the
34:16
long term. So it's these alignment guys.
34:19
We are not saying in any way that is easy.
34:22
It's not easy at all. There is not an exact way to
34:25
verify the fair hourly rate of a class.
34:30
For example, here for some time the class we used to calculate
34:36
the cycle, the price of the cycle, the price of two months
34:38
of class based on how much an hour of class would cost.
34:42
And then some years ago we started with $18.00 was the hour
34:45
of class and then went to 19202122.
34:50
And over the years with inflation adjust a little bit to
34:54
make sense. It got to a point though, that
34:58
this amount that we thought it was, you know, high enough was
35:03
not paying the things we were like breaking even.
35:06
So like things are expensive. Things are getting expensive.
35:10
Like I just always say people are paying $7.00 for a coffee.
35:13
Jesus Christ, that's a lot of money for a coffee.
35:18
My people again, not say that is easy, but it's dry.
35:22
Or making the efforts collectively maybe to find or to
35:27
develop the perception that people have of how much is fair
35:32
to pay for certain things. Like I just was saying, in a
35:38
festival, in a Congress, you are going there not necessarily to
35:43
learn in a progressive way, to learn in a consistent way.
35:48
You go into the festival to get snippets of the big artist,
35:53
maybe to get a lot of social dancing, to compete in the Jack
35:59
and Jill. So you have other things that
36:01
are attractive about the festival.
36:03
If you're going to a Weekender, that's a high value thing
36:06
because you are going to get most of the times then most
36:09
weekends that I know, progressive learning the
36:13
methodology of these teachers. Yeah.
36:17
And then you just basically getting more in terms of
36:20
learning. You might not get more in terms
36:23
of social dancing, competing like variety of people to dance
36:29
with, a variety of artists to observe, but you are getting a
36:34
lot of content and a lot of curated content, which tends to
36:41
be more expensive. Yeah, I curated something more
36:45
than I known curated something because somebody took time to
36:50
carefully trace the progression, to mindfully create a track for
36:55
people. So I think it's only fair that
36:58
it costs more. You know, this is you guys.
37:02
I think in the end of the day takes time.
37:05
Again, you are not alone in this journey.
37:08
There are other people that you can talk to.
37:10
You can talk to us, can talk to us and can talk to me.
37:13
You can talk to the organizers in other scenes.
37:16
I think like a network of support is something that can be
37:20
beneficial for everybody to be able to continuously provide
37:24
these opportunities for people to learn.
37:26
Because in the end, that's what I think it is, a bunch of really
37:28
passionate people wanting more people to fall in love with what
37:32
they fell in love with and give the opportunities to them.
37:36
I think in the end, that's the big motivation that I see and I
37:40
find it so beautiful. I just want it to be also
37:44
sustainable because the people start with a passion and they
37:48
slowly start lose the passion because it just becomes too hard
37:52
to keep. Going and something that you can
37:54
do for those people who really deserve that discount or deserve
38:00
that little help. You know, like there are so many
38:03
people struggling out there with their bills because there are
38:07
many instances that for weekenders and for festivals, I
38:12
will open up an exception here and there for somebody.
38:16
But here's the thing, you got a gift to get.
38:20
That's my number one rule, OK, You want to come to the weekend
38:23
there and you cannot pay for the full weekend.
38:26
OK, So the problem is money here.
38:29
Can you help out somehow? Can you do something?
38:32
Can you come before the party and help me set up?
38:35
Can you stay after the party, help me clean up?
38:37
Can you be available in the afternoon maybe to drive
38:41
somebody to pick something up to go and get the lunch for the
38:45
artists, if you are willing to help and give a hand, we are
38:50
willing to give you a discount. So for those of you who need a
38:54
discount, please reach out to the event organizer and offer
38:58
them something because a lot of the times the event organizers
39:03
are already struggling to make that point of like where they
39:07
feel comfortable enough with the sales.
39:10
Most of the times they are just losing money.
39:13
So when people just go in and just ask for a discount, it
39:18
feels very discouraging. It feels a lot of the times like
39:23
very hurtful. And I say that as an organizer,
39:26
and I say that as a teacher who has weekenders where the
39:32
organizer comes and talks to me and say, oh, listen, I've been
39:35
struggling this week because people, they're just asking for
39:38
discounts all the time because they go to another event and
39:41
this event and that event gives them discount.
39:43
And every event gives them discount.
39:45
And because we are not giving them discount, they are saying
39:49
that they don't want to come. It's kind of like blackmailing
39:53
or something. I don't know.
39:55
So I think that as organizers, we have to stand firm and stand
40:00
strong and educate the community.
40:02
Like he said, have processes, have systems in place, all
40:08
payments, all enrollments, everything through the platform,
40:12
all the information on the website, how much I send a link.
40:17
That's how I deal with this. When people ask me how much is
40:20
the pass for this, oh, here's the link.
40:23
Where do I sign up? Here's the link.
40:26
Look, if it's a conversation that I don't need to have, I'm
40:30
not going to have because I already have a lot of time that
40:35
I spent organizing this, writing the website, writing the
40:38
Facebook event, the Instagram posts, the newsletters, and all
40:42
of this. And I have to reply to every
40:46
single message of people asking the same thing that I already
40:48
wrote and posted and published in 10 different places.
40:52
No systems in place as an organizer is going to save your
40:57
life. And then having platform for
40:59
payments and things like that going to make people understand
41:02
that the only way to get to that event is to buy a ticket through
41:06
this platform. One time that you let somebody
41:09
pay cash, one time you let somebody pay on direct bank
41:13
transfer or anything like that, they're going to tell a friend
41:16
who's going to tell another friend who's going to tell
41:18
another person. And then it just means that
41:21
people go like, oh, you know, if you message the organizer, do do
41:24
something. Don't worry about it.
41:26
Don't worry about it. Yeah, you don't have a pass.
41:28
Just show up. It's fine.
41:30
They're going to let you in anyway.
41:32
That is, bro, every year at my events I have to turn people out
41:37
when we sold out, which thankfully happens almost every
41:40
year. We have people flying from a
41:43
different state and we have to tell them no, I'm sorry, you
41:46
cannot come in because you don't have a pass.
41:48
We're at capacity and we're not going to do anything.
41:52
I'm sorry. It's just the rules.
41:55
It's on our website, and we don't want to get in trouble
41:57
with the police. No, but not just that.
41:59
I mean, it's the more we allow people to twist our arm, the
42:05
less control we have. Same thing with classes,
42:10
socials, events. So for all of you teachers and
42:14
organizers who are out there trying to figure out how to
42:19
educate your community, I think the best thing to do is to be
42:23
honest. Just simply be honest.
42:25
Be open, tell them hey guys I want to bring this artist or I
42:30
want to organize this social. But the reality is if I don't
42:34
have 20 people there is no way I can make it.
42:37
Can I have like 20 people confirming by the end of the
42:40
month? Otherwise, I'm going to tell the
42:42
artist that I'm not going to bring them and it's not going to
42:44
happen. Do things like that.
42:46
And I'm not saying confirmation verbally, $20 down, $50 down.
42:52
Like I need you to put your money literally where your mouth
42:57
is. So if you're committing and I'm
43:00
going to spend thousands of dollars with flights and fees
43:03
and all of that, I need people to back me up.
43:06
So those are a few tips that if you're organizer or a teacher,
43:12
bringing people over, bringing artists over and dealing with
43:16
the customers, maybe you can use some of these systems that I
43:19
just suggested. Yeah.
43:22
The last thing I think I would share about all of these,
43:24
Alison, is that we need to get really good at saying no.
43:30
If you haven't yet, please listen to the last 3456 episodes
43:35
where pretty much every episode we talked about this.
43:38
Yeah, guys, like Allison said, somebody comes from different
43:42
states to come to the events and man, it is hard.
43:47
But like, if you want to create really the culture that people
43:50
need to follow the system that you put in place so you don't go
43:54
crazy, you gotta get that and say no.
43:58
That might be the hardest part. You know, like when I was
44:03
organizing a festival, guys, I needed to say no to so many
44:07
people at the door. They were at the door.
44:10
Oh, I, I thought I could just come.
44:13
I said no, no, no. You need to register on the
44:15
website and you need to go through virtual audition process
44:20
and then get accepted. Oh, but it's but and you needed
44:24
to. Like track, right?
44:25
Yeah. And then it'd be like, no,
44:27
unfortunately, no. And they would be in front of
44:29
you saying please. And you have to look down in the
44:32
eye and say no, hey guys, so hard.
44:37
It was really difficult. In such a situations, people get
44:41
really passionate about the fact that they think they can be
44:45
there. It's their right to go in the
44:47
event that you were holding, you know, so.
44:50
You have the right to walk on the street, you don't have the
44:53
right to walk into this business.
44:55
Exactly. That's it.
44:56
Last thing, say no. The last, last thing, Don't do
45:00
this alone. Do not do this alone.
45:03
You need help. You need people with you to be
45:05
able to support you in these moments.
45:08
But when you have the systems in place, when you send the links,
45:11
the forms, it becomes a lot easier because you do have
45:16
something established and you make more objective a process
45:19
that could be otherwise very subjective.
45:21
Nah. So guys.
45:24
And again, you're not alone. Cool, you have us.
45:27
Yes, listen to our podcasts and reach out to us if you need
45:32
anything. And with that, we want to once
45:35
again, thank you so much for being here with us.
45:38
Don't forget to subscribe, follow, like, share, do all the
45:42
things that you can do to help us because every time we do
45:46
that, we get somebody watching for the first time.
45:50
We're coming back to Zook Nerds and it helps the platform to
45:54
grow. So thank you once again.
45:57
We hope that you learned something in this episode and
46:00
we'll see you on the next one. Business, Business Abrasus.
46:05
Ciao people. Bye everybody, see you next
46:08
time.