Latest / Foul Territory / What MacKenzie Gore can bring to the Rangers and the trade aftermath for the Washington Nationals

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What MacKenzie Gore can bring to the Rangers and the trade aftermath for the Washington Nationals · Foul Territory

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Spencer Nstbaum joining us right now. He covers the Nationals
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: for the Washington Post. Spencer, great to have you on
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  Speaker 1: the show and perfect timing to have you on. So
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  Speaker 1: tell Rangers fans first off, what they need to know
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  Speaker 1: about Mackenzie Gore, who has just picked up to join
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  Speaker 1: a rotation that includes de grominy Baldi.
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  Speaker 2: I was happy to be here. I'd say the biggest
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  Speaker 2: thing for Rangers fans to know is that this is
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  Speaker 2: a guy who has a lot of untapped upside. And
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  Speaker 2: that sounds a little weird to say about a twenty
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  Speaker 2: six year olds who's been in the majors for a
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  Speaker 2: few years now. But the biggest thing about Mackenzie is
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  Speaker 2: he's got three plus pitches, He's got all this stuff,
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  Speaker 2: and he's really someone who just hasn't fully been unlocked yet.
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  Speaker 2: Whether that's the National's fault, whether that's injuries, whether that's
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  Speaker 2: you know something here there, the fact of the matter,
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  Speaker 2: he's looked like an all star pitcher at times during
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  Speaker 2: his career, and he's looked like an incomplete project at others.
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  Speaker 2: So I think what you're getting is a leader in
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  Speaker 2: the room and someone who's probably going to be but
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  Speaker 2: to tap into that in Texas.
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  Speaker 3: Wait, it looks like an All Star pitcher? No? No,
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  Speaker 3: he was in the All Star Game. He literally was
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  Speaker 3: an All Star pitcher. What did you see in the
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  Speaker 3: in the different the difference in the first half and
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  Speaker 3: the second half. That won't again happen this next year
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  Speaker 3: for the Rangers because obviously, if you if you paid
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  Speaker 3: for the first half, the prospects that the Nats would
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  Speaker 3: have been getting back in exchange would have been massively
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  Speaker 3: different than what they ended up getting. So what is
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  Speaker 3: the difference in Where does he need to get to
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  Speaker 3: be that first half pitcher all the time? Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And part of why I say it looks like an
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  Speaker 2: All Star even though he was one, is because the
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  Speaker 2: year before it was almost the same exact thing. It was, Hey,
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  Speaker 2: great numbers, great strikeouts, and then in the second half
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  Speaker 2: fallen off. I think I would attribute it to a
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  Speaker 2: few things. The biggest thing is that his fastball, which
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  Speaker 2: he loves to throw, is in the mid to upper nineties,
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  Speaker 2: gets hit pretty hard, and I think teams start to
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  Speaker 2: adjust to that as the course of the season goes
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  Speaker 2: on and see it in the scouting report, and that's
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  Speaker 2: that's kind of a big thing that was kind of
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  Speaker 2: hit around in the second half. So I think it's
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  Speaker 2: maybe trusting the secondaries, which are really, really, really good,
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  Speaker 2: trusting them a little more. And I know Texas has
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  Speaker 2: had a great kind of pitching operation in the past
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  Speaker 2: handful of year, so I expect them to unlock that.
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  Speaker 2: In addition to that, I you know, McKenzie is someone
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  Speaker 2: who's very in tune with his body, which has helped
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  Speaker 2: him be athletic and be really good in these first halfs,
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  Speaker 2: but there has been some fatigue I think in the
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  Speaker 2: second half, whether or not he'll go out and admit it.
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  Speaker 2: So just making sure that they have him on a
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  Speaker 2: plan where they're not overstressing his arm, they're not overstressing
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  Speaker 2: his body, and making sure that you can pitch through
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  Speaker 2: a full year, because you know, the year before it
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  Speaker 2: was a drop in the arm angle. This year was
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  Speaker 2: just the the stuff didn't work as well in the
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  Speaker 2: second half. So I think it's a combination of making
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  Speaker 2: sure his body is right and making sure he's storing
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  Speaker 2: those secondaries a lot.
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  Speaker 3: How much of his numbers or some of his subsequent
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  Speaker 3: drop off year is a personnel around him. When I
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  Speaker 3: look at a guy that has leads the league two
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  Speaker 3: years in a row in wild pitches, the catching corps
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  Speaker 3: has to take If I'm catching on that team, I
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  Speaker 3: have to take some of the ownership in that. And
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  Speaker 3: so when there's when that pops out to me, then
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  Speaker 3: how much is this defense that was playing behind him,
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  Speaker 3: the fact that he was the number one, the fact
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  Speaker 3: that he maybe cast more as like a number three
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  Speaker 3: with a hot high ceiling of a two. How much
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  Speaker 3: of that was maybe dictated by the fact that, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the people around him. Maybe it wasn't wasn't a very
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  Speaker 3: good team, and he's super emotional. We've seen him yelled
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  Speaker 3: his teammates, I think warrantedly, but you know his teammates,
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  Speaker 3: it just seemed like there was something more there. Did
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  Speaker 3: you see that on a day in and day out
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  Speaker 3: basis within that?
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  Speaker 2: I would kind of put that twofold to your point
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  Speaker 2: about being a teammate. I think mackenzie grew a lot
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  Speaker 2: as a leader the last year, you know, the year
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  Speaker 2: before there was the incident where he and Nick Senzel
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  Speaker 2: got into a bit of a scuffle in the in
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  Speaker 2: the dugout. But kind of to your larger point here,
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  Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing to know with McKenzie is, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: it is a lot of the stuff around him, Like
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  Speaker 2: the defense behind him is one of the worst in baseball.
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  Speaker 2: The catching defense has repeatedly been some of the worst
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  Speaker 2: in baseball. That's taxing and that that goes into the numbers.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that's why you saw the market for
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  Speaker 2: McKenzie was so strong, is because teams thought like, not
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  Speaker 2: only can we fix him, but we're going to give
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  Speaker 2: him better support when he's here. And you know, when
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: you talk about first half versus second half, it's the
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  Speaker 2: same thing with everyone else in the Nationals. James Wood
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  Speaker 2: had an unbelievable first half, fell off in the second.
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  Speaker 2: C j Abrams fantastic first half, fell off in the second.
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  Speaker 2: You know. So it's you know, comparing pitchers and position
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  Speaker 2: players isn't always one to one, but I think you
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  Speaker 2: can see that maybe it was a trend with the Nationals.
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  Speaker 2: So Texas, I think should be able to fix that.
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  Speaker 4: And here we go again with the Nationals to another rebuild.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, you had Rizzo as their guy and he
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  Speaker 4: got fired for pretty much that situation. And now, if
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  Speaker 4: I'm a fan, I mean, what are the fans thinking
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  Speaker 4: right now? It's another go at it, so they got
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  Speaker 4: to be a little frustrated now.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a very tough pill to swallow. I think,
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  Speaker 2: you know, you started to figure it out, and maybe
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  Speaker 2: nationally last year, just how much the Nationals have struggled.
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  Speaker 2: No one's lost more games than the Nationals other than
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  Speaker 2: the Rockies since twenty twenty. It's been really brutal for
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  Speaker 2: this fan base. I think there is a sect of
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: the fan base who is optimism just because hey, like
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  Speaker 2: there wasn't a vision before, or there wasn't a strong
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  Speaker 2: vision conveyed and there is one now. But it's really
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  Speaker 2: really tough to say, hey, keep showing up to the
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  Speaker 2: ballpark when we haven't won more than seventy one games
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  Speaker 2: since we won the World Series. Like, it's really brutal
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  Speaker 2: on them, and I feel for them. What I would
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  Speaker 2: say is that I do like the hall that they
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  Speaker 2: got back, but man, I do empathize with them because
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  Speaker 2: it's not it's not a perfect picture. Right now.
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  Speaker 3: How much smoke did the fans actually take in from
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  Speaker 3: from Rizzo saying we're close? He started he started selling
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  Speaker 3: that rhetoric towards the end of his tenure. Yeah, we're close.
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  Speaker 3: Fired his manager well, it's not me, it's these guys.
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  Speaker 3: How much of that smoke do you think fans actually believe, like, oh,
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  Speaker 3: we love Rizzo, we want us a World Series? And
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  Speaker 3: do you think that that expectation with the rebuild now
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  Speaker 3: was like wait a minute, there was way more smoke
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  Speaker 3: than there was actually any fire from what Rizzo was saying.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't think the Nationals were ever
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  Speaker 2: all that close to making the postseason or having those
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  Speaker 2: sorts of aspirations last year. But the counterpoint of that,
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  Speaker 2: and kind of what you're touching on is if you're
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  Speaker 2: in the fourth year over the rebuild, the fifth year
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  Speaker 2: of the rebuild, you do have to do something or
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  Speaker 2: else there are going to be drastic changes. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I understand from Rizzo's perspective in the front offices perspective
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  Speaker 2: of saying, maybe not that we're close, but hey, we've
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  Speaker 2: got a product here to be proud of, and we're
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  Speaker 2: going to take this big leap this year. Because I
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  Speaker 2: think whether or not you say that, you're going to
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  Speaker 2: draw frustration from your fans, because ultimately what matters is
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  Speaker 2: how many wins you're putting out there. And the Nats
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  Speaker 2: won sixty six games last year. So yeah, I think
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  Speaker 2: that fans were right to be frustrated. Some did feel misled,
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  Speaker 2: And I think to Bony has been very clear that
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  Speaker 2: they have a long term vision and may not be
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  Speaker 2: in October this year, which I think is a fair
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  Speaker 2: thing to say. But when you're a GM in charge
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  Speaker 2: of a rebuild and it's fourth or fifth year, I
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  Speaker 2: think I understand the impetus to kind of sell something.
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  Speaker 4: Well, you're talking about selling too. So we got a
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  Speaker 4: question from the chat here basically asking who's next, who's
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  Speaker 4: next in line to go? And you know, is this
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  Speaker 4: going to happen sooner and later? What do you think?
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  Speaker 3: So?
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  Speaker 2: Andrew Golden and I at the Washington Post reported this
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  Speaker 2: yesterday that the Nationals have shopped both shortstops CJ Abrams
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  Speaker 2: and center fielder Jacob Young. At the moment, the price
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  Speaker 2: on both of those guys is pretty high. Young is
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  Speaker 2: a Gold Glove caliber center fielder whose bat hasn't really
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  Speaker 2: caught up to that, whereas Abrams, again is kind of
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  Speaker 2: not the position player version of Mackenzie but great first
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  Speaker 2: has really high ceiling, but has struggled at times. And
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  Speaker 2: so I think that's also baked into the package. There
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  Speaker 2: As for when that happens, I wouldn't be shocked if
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  Speaker 2: CJ's traded closer to the deadline than this winter. But
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  Speaker 2: I would also say if he got traded a day
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  Speaker 2: from now, I also wouldn't be all that shocked. And
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  Speaker 2: I know that's maybe not a fair head, but I
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  Speaker 2: think the Nationals have more possibility to wait on CJ
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  Speaker 2: than maybe they did with Mackenzie, given the injury risk there.
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  Speaker 2: As for Jacob Young, they have a full outfield right
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  Speaker 2: now and a number of exciting young players competing for
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  Speaker 2: those spots, and so I would be shocked if you
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  Speaker 2: know a team that's looking to really either upgrade in
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  Speaker 2: center field or get a really impact fourth outfielder. I
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  Speaker 2: think that that the Nationals could be inclined to move him,
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  Speaker 2: but neither of those moves is as much of a
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  Speaker 2: certainty as I always felt that Mackenzie was.
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  Speaker 3: This offseason all right, fans look at it and they say, Okay,
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  Speaker 3: they're not spending in free agency. Something that somebody from
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  Speaker 3: the Nats organization told me that I'm blows my mind.
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  Speaker 3: Do you know what the traject system is? Correct? Yes?
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  Speaker 3: Project For anybody who's listening, traject is the system where
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  Speaker 3: it's a pitching machine, but it shows any pitcher and
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  Speaker 3: it makes that pitch that that pitch or throws, and
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  Speaker 3: it shows essentially you're just facing this pitcher in the
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  Speaker 3: batting cage. The Nats did not have this. Every big
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  Speaker 3: league team had it. And Thents now have bought four
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  Speaker 3: from the person that I found out from, two down
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  Speaker 3: in the spring training complex, one in Rochester and one
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  Speaker 3: in d See. For a team, a big league team
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  Speaker 3: that truly wants to compete to be that far behind,
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  Speaker 3: is this the free agent that they purchased, because that's
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  Speaker 3: a round two million dollars for four of those machines.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe they got a discount because they bought in bulk,
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  Speaker 3: but is this their free agent move? And how could
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  Speaker 3: an organization that competes in Major League Baseball truly believe
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  Speaker 3: that they're going to compete without one of the most
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: integral pieces of equipment that every other team has.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if they shopped at Costco
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  Speaker 2: to get a better deal art, but I will yeah, no,
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  Speaker 2: it was a good purchase. What I will say is,
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  Speaker 2: and I did some reporting on this last year. At
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  Speaker 2: this point last year, I think they were one of
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  Speaker 2: three or four teams that didn't have it in baseball.
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  Speaker 2: But it really was egregious and I talked to players
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  Speaker 2: at the time and said, hey, do you know what
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  Speaker 2: this is? Are you interested in it? And almost every
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  Speaker 2: single one of them said, yeah, we would love to
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  Speaker 2: have this. It's frustrating that we don't. We can make
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  Speaker 2: do without it, but you know, when you think it's
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  Speaker 2: a it's a five hundred thousand dollars investment to get
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: in the big leagues, and it could maybe help a
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: guy pick up a couple extra hits a year or
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: strike out a few less times. It was really really
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  Speaker 2: not good that the Nationals didn't have it. It has
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: become kind of the standard, and kind of the larger
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: point I would make here, even outside of traject is
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  Speaker 2: that the Nationals are investing a lot this offseason, not
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: just in technology, but in you know, having more personnel
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  Speaker 2: in the player development side, and you know, adding to
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  Speaker 2: those sorts of things as opposed to, hey, let's go
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  Speaker 2: get you know, a big ticket free agent that we'd
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: either have to overpay for who'd never want to come here.
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  Speaker 2: So they're kind of looking at the roots and the
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: kind of the blueprint of the issue rather than maybe
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: plug and play, let's pay ped Alonzo two hundred million
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  Speaker 2: dollars and see what happens. So I think that there's
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  Speaker 2: a way to kind of hedge with both approaches. But
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  Speaker 2: the Nationals are definitely kind of investing more on that
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  Speaker 2: side of things, and the traject is a great example
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  Speaker 2: of something that they've done to add in that facet.
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  Speaker 3: Anything, because we're talking money, anything new to report on
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: the sale of the team. Is this going to be
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: the standard wait and see what happens in the next
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: CBA and then hopefully we get this and that and
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: then that'll increase the franchise value.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing new on that front. I think, like most teams
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: that it's just kind of in wait and see mode,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: see what happens with twenty twenty seven, and then move
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: from there, which is all stuff we've covered in the past.
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  Speaker 2: So nothing new to report. But you know, most fans
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: that you talk to in DC are very frustrated with
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  Speaker 2: this ownership group and have have asked, you know, obviously
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: for change. We will see what happens in twenty twenty
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: seven beyond. But I think they've taken some steps in
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the right direction in terms of again putting the right
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: front office in place, putting the right coaching staff in place,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: and getting some of those traject and other things paid for.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: But the Nats are still a ways away all.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: This to be said. They just got rid of Mackenzie Gore,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: maybe cg Abrams, maybe Jacob Young. What's a good season
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: for the Nets? What is considered a good season for
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: a brand new general manager, a brand new entire coaching staff,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: and new manager on the field, and you lost your
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: number one pitcher? What is a good season this year?
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  Speaker 2: That's something that I've been trying to wrap my head
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  Speaker 2: around too, because no fan wants to hear seventy one
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: wins as a good season. And I don't blame him.
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  Speaker 2: I think again, like and it sucks to sell this,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and I understand that it really is about the individual progress.
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  Speaker 2: It's like all of these guys, Dylan Lyle, who I'm
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: really high on, James Woods, you know, whoever else has left,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Kid Cavali is it? Can they put together a full season?
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  Speaker 2: And I understand that that's frustrating, and you know, you'd want,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: you know, at least like seventy five, seventy eight wins.
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  Speaker 2: I think that'd be a great season. Frankly would be
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: to still be in it in August and kind of
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: early September. But yeah, for the most part, it's can
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the All stars look like stars? Can the role players
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: look like regulars? And can we get some sort of
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: some sort of process here where it looks like, you know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: both the farm system and the big league club are
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: having a better future. Which is way too vague of
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: an answer, but it's the best one I got at
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: the moment.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Top ten market, it's a top ten market. It's frustrating,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: is it?
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Top ten? Mar Yeah, six seasons ago a World Series, Spencer,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: it should not get to this point.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Spencer doesn't work for the team, but he covers them,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: and it is frustrating.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that Gus Marlin Weaver claim is going to
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: put them over the top. I don't know.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Discussed the next Louis, But hey, Spencer, this was fun.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us, Thanks for the real talk, insight,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: and we'll have you back. You'd appreciate it.