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Will Virginia unleash the redistricting hounds from now until 2032? · The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, All Things
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hillsdale at Hillsdale dot ed or I encourage you to
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: take advantage of the many free online courses there, and
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: of course I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue all of
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: them at Hugh for Hillsdale dot com or just google, Apple,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: iTunes and Hillsdale. I'm joined now by Matt Continetti. Matt,
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  Speaker 1: of course the commas for the Wall Street Journal. He's
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: also the head of Domestic Studies over at AEI. I
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: always like to get a little behind the scenes with
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Matt over at AI. And I'm just double checking. I
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: listened to Fred on the commentary podcast this week. Does
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: he ever smile?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: He does?
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: He does, Hugh Fred ks, he can chuckle.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: He's very you know.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: But when he's locked in oh is he locked in
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: analyzing the wars in Ukraine and Iran and in Israel
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: and in Africa.
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  Speaker 2: He is a very serious man.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Because I want people to go to an understanding war.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Because he explained why we have to watch Vahiti. Bahiti
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: is the man. Bahdi is the new tyrant. And is
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that the conclusion you come to after listening to Fred
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Kagan whenever you see him in the hallway, is he
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  Speaker 1: muttering Vahiti.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: I to whatever Fred is saying, I pace sharp attention
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  Speaker 3: to and usually follow the line, and I think he's
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  Speaker 3: onto something there, Hugh. There's clearly a power struggle happening
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  Speaker 3: inside the Iranian government right now, with the political echelon
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  Speaker 3: wanting to make a deal with Trump and Bahiti and
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  Speaker 3: the IRGC gangsters resisting now.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I wrote a column for Fox News today that was
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: not I wasn't worried it was gonna happen, but it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't hurt to warrant No Munich nineteen thirty eight. Don't
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  Speaker 1: do anything like that. Don't bring back peace in our time.
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  Speaker 1: Turns out they're not bringing back anything because they didn't
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  Speaker 1: go Matt, Are you surprised.
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  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I am surprised relative to where I
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  Speaker 3: was before the weekend, Hugh, because I think there was
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: a lot of optimism with the President in the administration,
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  Speaker 3: even analysts close to the administration, that there might have
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  Speaker 3: been a deal to be had at this second round
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  Speaker 3: of negotiations, And not long after you and I talked
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  Speaker 3: on Friday, it was shown that that optimism may have
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  Speaker 3: been misguided, when after a Rakhali, the Foreign Minister, said
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  Speaker 3: that the Strait of Hormuz was open. The IRGC represented
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  Speaker 3: as went on social media to say that it was closed,
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  Speaker 3: and so you had the first sign of the power struggle.
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  Speaker 3: But you also had the sign that right now the
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  Speaker 3: political representatives of the Islamic Republic are not actually in charge.
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  Speaker 3: And so at that point I became more suspicious that
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  Speaker 3: this round of negotiation would happen. And it seems like
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  Speaker 3: it's not going to happen right now. And you know what,
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  Speaker 3: I think that's good because right now President Trump is
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  Speaker 3: in a position where he can increase the pressure on
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  Speaker 3: the Iranian regime.
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  Speaker 2: We have several levers of pressure.
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  Speaker 3: We have this blockade that has been extremely successful.
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  Speaker 2: We have the.
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  Speaker 3: Threat and I hope the reality of resumed bombardment of
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  Speaker 3: Iran hitting some key targets, including the IRGC leadership. And
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  Speaker 3: then there's always this other lever that we have, and
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  Speaker 3: that's the Iranian people. Because as afraid as the Iranian
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  Speaker 3: government may be of Donald Trump and the US military forces,
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  Speaker 3: as they're more afraid of the Iranian people, who they know,
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  Speaker 3: when given the opportunity, will topple this regime.
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  Speaker 1: And no one's told them to come out yet. I
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  Speaker 1: want to add one thing to your list. Yesterday the
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  Speaker 1: United States Navy put a hole in a cargo ships
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  Speaker 1: engine room. They were trying to run the blockade that's
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  Speaker 1: not being towed someway. And overnight the United States Navy
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  Speaker 1: seized a giant tanker in the Indian Ocean. So we're
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  Speaker 1: going out to the hot oil everywhere. Do you have
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  Speaker 1: any idea, by the way, what happens to the hot
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  Speaker 1: oil that we see? It's got to be worth hundreds
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  Speaker 1: of millions, if not billions of dollars, probably hundreds of millions.
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  Speaker 1: And I don't know where it goes, and I don't
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  Speaker 1: know who sells it. I'm not an admiralty lawyer. Do
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  Speaker 1: you Does it go to the victims of the run
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  Speaker 1: and repression? Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: I have to brush up on my law of the sea, Hugh.
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  Speaker 3: But I'll say that we encountered this issue during the
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  Speaker 3: previous blockade, the Blockade of Venezuela, and there I believe
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  Speaker 3: the United States took possession of the oil, but I
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  Speaker 3: can't be sure. I'm going to have to hit the
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  Speaker 3: books after our conversation.
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  Speaker 1: Well, what's great about the one they grabbed last night.
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  Speaker 1: I was reading up on it this morning. It belonged
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  Speaker 1: to an IRGC guy, one of the it's their shadow fleet,
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  Speaker 1: belongs to their shadow companies, which belong to their shadowy
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  Speaker 1: IRGC people. And when you lose that much money overnight,
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  Speaker 1: you're very unhappy with leadership. So cracks in the regime
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  Speaker 1: is not something I think that's really out of reach.
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  Speaker 1: I also, do you expect the ceasefire to give way
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  Speaker 1: in Lebanon the same way it gives way with Iran,
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  Speaker 1: be cause I expect bombing tom now.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because the seasfire and Lebanon began after
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  Speaker 3: the seasefire in Iran. There's still some time left on
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  Speaker 3: that clock. After the ceasefire with Iran expires sometime early tomorrow, probably,
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  Speaker 3: I would say that that ceasefire won't hold as well.
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  Speaker 1: Though.
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  Speaker 3: It's interesting that they were able to delink the conflicts
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  Speaker 3: with these different negotiations, and we'll see. I think that
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  Speaker 3: Iran was very interested in having a ceasefire between Israel
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  Speaker 3: and Hesbala for the same reason that elements of the
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  Speaker 3: government wanted to continue these negotiations and extend the seasfire
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  Speaker 3: with the US and that is Iran always uses negotiations
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  Speaker 3: as a way to buy time for the regime. That
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  Speaker 3: is the purpose of these negotiations. They know when the
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  Speaker 3: ceasefire expires, and if the bombing resumes again, I hope
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  Speaker 3: it does. And when the ceasefire between Israel and HESBLA
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  Speaker 3: expires and Israel's enabled to continue its campaign against HESBLA,
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  Speaker 3: then that will put more pressure on the regime. It
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  Speaker 3: will hurt its assets even further, and I think it
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  Speaker 3: will increase the conflicts within the regime that we begin
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  Speaker 3: to see spill out in public over the past seventy
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  Speaker 3: two hours.
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  Speaker 1: And I guarantee you one effect of this is that
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  Speaker 1: mister Vahiti will be vanishing and will be communicating via
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  Speaker 1: carrier pigeon because the IDEF knows how to find the
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  Speaker 1: people that they want to eliminate. And if Theahiti is
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  Speaker 1: running the thing, he's the guy, Matt. I want to
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  Speaker 1: switch to domestic politics briefly. It's selection day in Virginia.
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  Speaker 1: I did my duty. I voted against the idiotic map
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  Speaker 1: and it's idiotic because businesses won't come to Virginia and
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  Speaker 1: legislator Republicans on the Hill aren't going to take visits
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  Speaker 1: from Virginia. Man, when it's a ten, it's actually going
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  Speaker 1: to be a twelve to one delegation now two Democratic senator,
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  Speaker 1: ten Democratic. But it's constitutional. I've always believed redistricting is constitutional.
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  Speaker 1: I think this means Florida goes forward. I'm just curious
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  Speaker 1: if you think it has any kind of an impact
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  Speaker 1: on the United States Supreme Court as they evaluate the
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  Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act case and Section five, which if they
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  Speaker 1: strike down Section five, and I think they should, means
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  Speaker 1: redistricting in a whole bunch of places, or do we
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  Speaker 1: have to wait till twenty thirty two to see the
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  Speaker 1: new maps we really like.
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  Speaker 2: Well, there's all great questions, Hugh.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I don't think that the result in today's
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  Speaker 3: vote in Virginia will factor much in the Supreme Court's decision.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe one reason why some of the liberal justices are
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  Speaker 3: trying to slow walk that decision, however, on the Voting
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  Speaker 3: Right Sack, which could potentially eliminate these, in my view,
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  Speaker 3: on constitutional majority minority republic districts and possibly improve Republican
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  Speaker 3: representation as a result, because so many of those in
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  Speaker 3: the South. But I think that the issue is separate
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  Speaker 3: from what's happening in Virginia. I am actually somewhat a
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  Speaker 3: surprised at how close this race in Virginia is over this,
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  Speaker 3: this jerrymander that Governor Spanberger and the Democratic supermajorities have proposed.
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  Speaker 3: I think the race is going to be a lot
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  Speaker 3: closer than people think. I don't know how it's going
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  Speaker 3: to go, but I will say this, The already apparent
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  Speaker 3: result of this gerrymander campaign is a decrease, a significant
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  Speaker 3: erosion in Governor Spamberg's popularity because she has brought a
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  Speaker 3: resistant Democrat playbook to a purple state. Donald Trump got
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  Speaker 3: forty six percent, a little bit higher in Virginia in
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  Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. It's true Republicans have in won Virginia
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  Speaker 3: at the presidential level for some time, for decades, but
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  Speaker 3: nonetheless there is still plenty of Republicans left in the
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  Speaker 3: old dominion that makes us a purple state. And for
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  Speaker 3: Spamberger to come in after campaigning is a moderate and
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  Speaker 3: immediately adopt the resistance playbook on ice, on jerrymandering, on taxes,
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  Speaker 3: on school discipline. She issued a horrendous executive order that
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  Speaker 3: will make our schools much less safe. Just the other week.
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  Speaker 3: That has really cut into her popularity, and I hope
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  Speaker 3: other Democrats are paying attention, even while I know they aren't.
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  Speaker 1: Now, what about the longer term effect, Matt, Because I
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  Speaker 1: do believe the electoral College map ships significantly to the south,
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  Speaker 1: moving sheets to Florida and Texas, stripping them out of
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  Speaker 1: California and New York. All the maps get redrawn before
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  Speaker 1: twenty thirty two, and I think all the knives are
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  Speaker 1: out and the gloves are off. It's just partisan redistricting
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  Speaker 1: wherever there is partisan redistricting to be had. I'm happy
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  Speaker 1: about that, are you.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Look, redistricting is up to the states.
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  Speaker 3: In my view, the state legislatures can draw the districts
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  Speaker 3: that they want. I think a lot of people were
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  Speaker 3: upset at what California and now Virginia are trying to do,
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  Speaker 3: and that they were rebuking a previous Jerrymander plan, which
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  Speaker 3: was to say that these so called independent commissions would
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  Speaker 3: draw the districts in order to have the legislatures jigger
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  Speaker 3: the districts so that they are extremely partisan and you
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  Speaker 3: increase the representation. Most voters oppose that sort of thing.
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  Speaker 3: They would prefer the independent commissions. Either way, the maps
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  Speaker 3: after twenty thirty and the census do not look good
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  Speaker 3: for the Democratic Party because of all the millions of
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  Speaker 3: Americans fleeing the blue state model.
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  Speaker 1: And at least after today, we won't hear Barack Obama
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  Speaker 1: on every podcast flying to us about the referendum. Matt
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Continenetty can be followed on Actrak. Continetti ran in the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, followed at The American Enterprise CENSI to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Alla's good at talking in America America. I'm Heugh Hewett.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: There are rules in the world of cable television, rules
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: that are unspoken yet rules which professionals abide by. Some
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  Speaker 1: of those rules might include that the senior man in
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  Speaker 1: the area goes first, and that that's a good rule.
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  Speaker 1: I like that rule. But the other rule is, if
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you're the last person on the panel to go, you
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: just don't put a knife into the back of your panelists,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: knowing that the subject's going to change and you're not
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: going to get a chance to respond. But one said
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Josh Holmes, my guest now from the Ruthless podcast, was
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: my colleague on a panel on Special Report the other night,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and as the subject ran down to the end, mister
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  Speaker 1: Holmes definitely threw a knife with the Cleveland Browns engraved
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  Speaker 1: on it hit me between the eyes and I went backwards,
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  Speaker 1: and Brett mercifully did not ask me to respond. He
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  Speaker 1: knew I was stunned. Josh, what got into you? Did
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  Speaker 1: you know? I had no chance to come back with
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: an vikings humor? All with love, All with love, Hugh.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, look, when I get a chance with you
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: to throw a little Cleveland brown shade, I'm going to
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: take the opportunity. And I was given the opportunity, so
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  Speaker 4: I thought, you know, what the heck?
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  Speaker 1: They always said that Crowdhammer always wanted to go last,
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  Speaker 1: and now I know why. Because when you go last,
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  Speaker 1: especially then you can always just like gig someone and
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  Speaker 1: walk away with the gun stills hot in your hands.
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  Speaker 1: I won't forget, Josh. It's a long long time now.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure.
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  Speaker 4: I'm sure there will be many opportunities for you to
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  Speaker 4: return the favor, and I'm looking forward to it.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Let's go to the fact that the Timberwolves
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  Speaker 1: aren't in the end. No, that's not it. Let's go
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  Speaker 1: to the fact that Virginia is going to vote to
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  Speaker 1: take a purple state that went fifty two to forty
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  Speaker 1: six for Kamala Harris and is currently six Democrats five
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  Speaker 1: Republicans and turn into a ten to one Democratic state.
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  Speaker 1: Now it's perfectly constitutional? Is it right? Or smart? Josh?
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  Speaker 4: I mean it's out First of all, it's outrageous, and
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  Speaker 4: I'm sure you've covered the ballot question in of itself,
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: and it's the most misleading thing of all time in
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  Speaker 4: the advertising campaign corresponded with the ballot language that they
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: put in about fair elections and being temporary and all
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: these things as redistricting is no matter what. There's nothing
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  Speaker 4: fair about what they're attempting to do. It's a straight
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  Speaker 4: partisan power play.
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  Speaker 1: Hugh.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, look, this is the kind of thing that
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  Speaker 4: I guess if you are just a hardcore partisan you
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: try to get away with and see if you can
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  Speaker 4: do it.
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  Speaker 2: They're going to find out tonight one way or another.
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  Speaker 4: I really hope though, I mean not just for Virginia
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  Speaker 4: but the country, and this whole idea of drawing districts
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  Speaker 4: entirely just to maximize your partisan output fails in some ways,
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  Speaker 4: because I do think the great experiment that we have
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  Speaker 4: here in this country is a representative democracy that ultimately
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: brings the voices of the people in communities across this
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  Speaker 4: country to Washington, d C. And that is not what
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: they're attempting to do in Virginia.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I voted no. I voted no, particularly because Barack
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Obama lie to me almost daily on every podcast, including yours,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: about Republicans trying to steal elections. But now we've had
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Texas redistrict, California redistrict, Virginia redistrict. I expect Florida will redistrict,
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  Speaker 1: and I think the Supreme Court's going to strike down
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Section five of the Budding Rights Act, so we'll get
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: a few more. But Josh, what's it doing you've been
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: on the hill? What's it due to a state when
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: their delegation is all blue or all red and there's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: an issue that cuts across party lines on the hill,
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  Speaker 1: I think it's really stupid to be all blue or
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: all red.
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  Speaker 4: It's listen, there are some districts that are going to
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: be all blue and all red. But if you eliminate
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: that entirely, what you're eliminating is people who have to
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: think through something other than the activist interpretation of the
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: issues and the immediate environment.
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: In which you live in.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: You have to think about the longer term how it
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: affects your constituency. You have to take different points of
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: view into consideration, which you know, I call the old school,
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: but I think in public policy it sort of makes
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: sense to figure out what the long term ramifications of
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: decisions you're making today might have.
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  Speaker 2: And it just eliminates that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: It makes everything basically an ex Twitter type analysis of
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: what it is that you're doing up there. And I
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: think it's it's horrible for the country, honestly, it's just
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: it's not good public policy. It makes your gameifies what
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: campaigns and elections are into a base constituency turnout that
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: never really gives a long view on anything.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: There was that in Virginia specifically Rob Portman, Rob Whitman.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Rob Whitman is a congressman of long standing from the
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: shipbuilding world, any Newport News or Virginia Beach somewhere like that,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and he's going to be wiped out by this map
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: if it's approved. So Virginia loses all the leverage they
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: had on armed services. And you know, you look up
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: at YEP, anyone who's on appropriations. If they get wiped out,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: they lose all that in California, Ken Calvert. I got
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: to support Ken because he's the lead appropriator on defense
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: and I think California defense industry needs money. But the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: reality of this is the Partisans have completely taken it over.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Don't you think this means all out I think this
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: means all out Gary mandering, Katie Baradoor come twenty thirty
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: two and.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: No, no question.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: I mean you could you could make an argument, Hugh
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: that Democrats have been doing this for an awful long time,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: Like just take a look at the state of Illinois
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: or Massachusetts. Like the gerrymandering that has been adopted by
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: the Democratic Party has been a problem for an awful
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: long time. But there always been limits to that kind
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: of thing. And if Democrats can get away with a
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: ten to one in a roughly evenly divided state like Virginia,
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: they can get away with absolutely anything.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: And you're right.
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  Speaker 6: It does take the voices away.
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  Speaker 4: Of communities in rural areas in particular that have unique concerns.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, think about what it does to the agricultural community, right,
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: I mean you're talking about shipbuilding, but I mean, what
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: kind of representation do you think that Illinois has about
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: their rural areas when they draw districts that have to
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: carve into Chicago and the suburbs in order to get
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: as many Democrats as they possibly can. I mean, that
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: is the future of all of this if it continues.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: And honestly, they've been horrible offenders for years, but it's
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: now just on steroids.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Well, Massachusetts has about thirty three percent Republicans and no
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Republican congressman. That's all glue. Illinois is in second place,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: but California is going to be in first place because
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: we'll be down to five Democrats there or five Republicans
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: after this is over. But does that argue for Ron
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Deasentris to call the special session and jam it down
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: as much as he can into an RD proposition.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Look, I think we're in part of some warfare at
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: this point. I hate it, I really hate it. But
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: if you're going to see Migail Spamberg or the so
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: called moderate say that you'll never do absolutely anything when
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: it comes to trying to disenfranchise the Virginia voters and
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: turn around and do just that, you have to respond
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: in kind. And I look again, I don't love the
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: trajectory of any of this. But if you are a
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Republican in any state that matters here, you have to
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: think long and hard about what Democrats have done and
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: are continuing to do to entirely take any conservative voices
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: out of the map nationwide.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: What does mister Duncan say about is Indiana Republicans who
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: stayed their hand on this, They tried to go above
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: the fray.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, he's not happy about it, but I mean, look,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: this is your Midwestern sensibility. And ye look, I think
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of people across the Midwest who would say, like, look,
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: feris fair and we're gonna do what we're gonna do.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: But then you see this Virginia situation or what they
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: did in California, and you're like, well, I mean, I'm
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: just gonna be a victim of all of this, And like,
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: I think we've long passed the point where you can
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: just simply be a victim of partisan nonsense.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: That is it. I cannot wait to hear the next
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you guys will be on the air tomorrow with Comforted
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: with Comfortable Smog, Michael Duncan and Astra Ashbrook, and I
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: look forward to hearing what you four have to say
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: about the results of today's referendum in Virginia. Josh Holmes
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: can be followed on Exit Holmes. Josh just be careful
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: about being on a panel with him if he goes last.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned in America, The Ruthless Podcast ever to be
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: missed Normal Welcome back in America. I'm who Hewitt. That
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: music means. David Drucker of The Dispatch joins US. David
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Virginia's redistricting initiatives today is on Fox News earlier saying, look,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it's constitutional. Maybe immoral, but it's constitutionals going to take
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: a six to five state d R turned into a
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: ten to one state d R, and it's gonna take
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: all the stoppers out of all the bottle. Now, Texas
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: started at California, followed Virginia through the third punch. I
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: expect Florida to throw the next punch. What was the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: reason Indiana didn't ask? I know, you went out there
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: and reported on that. Yeah.
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: Look, I just think Indiana, well, it depends on who
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: you ask you. You know, when I was out there
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: and I was talking to Republicans who supported that rediscopte initiative,
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: they felt like Democrats always stick together and Republicans don't,
• 20:27
  Speaker 7: and that the Republicans that opposed it were operating in
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: a different universe, so to speak, a previous era when
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: they're you know, when politics was a little bit more gentlemanly.
• 20:37
  Speaker 7: But when I spoke to Republicans who were opposed to it,
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: and that included some state senators who voted against it,
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: what they told me was that that's not the way
• 20:46
  Speaker 7: they wanted politics to operate in Indiana, that they resented
• 20:49
  Speaker 7: being told what to do by Washington Republicans in Washington,
• 20:52
  Speaker 7: and that their voters weren't clamoring for it. One state
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: senator I spoke to told me that ninety percent of
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: the calls to his office were against it. And you know,
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: it remains to be seen what happens in those state
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: senate primaries. There's a lot more money on the Trump
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: retribution side, but people on both sides tell me Trump
• 21:12
  Speaker 7: could sweep, Trump could get.
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: Shut out, or it could be a mixed bag.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: So in the end, it's not out of the game
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: for twenty twenty eight. But do you expect Florida to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: follow again? Virginia will pass tonight. The Obama ads are
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: driving me crazy. I assume that they're driving me crazy,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: they're driving other people crazy.
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: How many of you seen, Well, I don't watch much
• 21:36
  Speaker 7: Washington DC network television these days, so I haven't seen many.
• 21:40
  Speaker 7: But I've seen, you know, I've taken a look at the.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: ADS podcast, David. I don't watch any TV. They're on
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: every podcast.
• 21:49
  Speaker 7: Fair enough, fair enough. I just I haven't seen that
• 21:51
  Speaker 7: many of them. But you're right, I know they're out there.
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: Don't forget North Carolina and Missouri also redissiptied. So you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 7: from what we know, this vote is going to be closed.
• 22:00
  Speaker 7: It's not a guarantee that this thing passes. It's really
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: taken a bite out of Governor Stanberger's job approval rating,
• 22:08
  Speaker 7: and in fact, over the past ten days or so,
• 22:10
  Speaker 7: we've seen her respond now by being much more communicative
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: with all of the non redistricting things that she is
• 22:16
  Speaker 7: up to. So you know, we're gonna have to see
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: how this thing plays out. But obviously, redistricting on both
• 22:22
  Speaker 7: sides of the aisle has been a very hot topic
• 22:25
  Speaker 7: over the past decade or so.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny about Governor Spanberger. She will always be
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the scruit governor because she said scrut and went ahead
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and did the gem down. If she'd done eight three,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: it might have been more accessing. But ten to one
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: in a state that's fifty two forty six, her reputation
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: has made. It will never change. And you know what, David,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: businesses aren't gonna come here. That's like putting up a
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: big signs, don't come to the Commonwealth. We're run by Linote.
• 22:58
  Speaker 7: Well maybe, but I guess we will have to see.
• 23:01
  Speaker 7: I don't know that that corporate America pays too much
• 23:03
  Speaker 7: attention to that kind of politics. They're much more concerned
• 23:06
  Speaker 7: with the regulatory regime, with the tax structure. And so
• 23:11
  Speaker 7: she's got a democratic legislation to deal with.
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: Let's see if she can tell them no.
• 23:15
  Speaker 7: And repeatedly so when they want to pass higher taxes,
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: both on individuals and corporations, when they want to pass,
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: you know, when they want to increase regulations on businesses.
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: I mean, that's really going to be the test in.
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: Terms of economic growth in Virginia.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Well, it seems to me it's a leading indicator of
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: which way of states going into partisanship or nonpartisanship. Now
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: let me turn over to the Supreme Court. They have
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a section five of the voting rights at the case
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: before them. If, as many people expect, I do not
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: proclaim myself to be an expert on this particular case.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I do expect the Chief Justice to be more than
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: willing to join at least four other judges in justices
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and striking down Section five. There'll be a lot of
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: redistricting almost immediately, and I expect not to be out David.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: The only thing you can't do in redistrict is use race,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: And the only thing that article in section five of
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the Voting Right Jack does is to use race. Will
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you listen with open ears to people who complain about redistricting?
• 24:13
  Speaker 7: Men, Well, I don't actually have a problem with jerrymandering
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: at least this political accountability, and so the complaints that
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: are out there about it, you know, some of them
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: are principled, but I don't really personally, I've never really
• 24:29
  Speaker 7: had that much.
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: Of an issue.
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: I do think it's a little bit chaotic if we're
• 24:32
  Speaker 7: going to redistrict, you know, every two to four to
• 24:34
  Speaker 7: five years. But again, that's a choice that voters can
• 24:37
  Speaker 7: either accept or not, because there are still ways for
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: them to vote and show their disapproval, particularly when legislatures
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: and governors are the ones that are involved in this
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: sort of thing. I don't think Republicans in Texas are
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: unhappy with the redistricting there. I don't think Democrats in
• 24:50
  Speaker 7: California are unhappy with the redistricting there.
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: I do think, though, if if the court over you.
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: Know, just goes away from the Voting Rights Act with
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: this decision, I think a lot of districts could look
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: a lot different when we have the twenty thirty real portionment,
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: which is regularly scheduled and obviously every ten years, that's
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: always a very big deal. And given populationships, we know
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: the Democrats are in line to lose House seats and
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: electoral college votes in particular states.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: In any event, they're going to lose between thirteen and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: fifteen electoral college votes, and that means between eleven and
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: thirteen seats with the ships south, and it's going to
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: be massive. And now there's going to be no argument
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: against the knives coming out. Is there a specialist in
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: DC who is already planning the thirty two cycle, David,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: There's someone over at the RNC and the DNC who's
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: already trying to figure out where the maps will be
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: come that cycle.
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: I don't not this, not this soon.
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: I would expect that to start to happen in twenty
• 25:58
  Speaker 7: twenty eight, twenty twenty nine. You're able to use computer
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: mapping HUE to do this sort of thing. I don't
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: know for a you know, I don't know for sure
• 26:07
  Speaker 7: because I didn't report on this thirty forty fifty years
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: ago how much advanced work used to be done. But
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: I can tell you. I mean, they can basically carve
• 26:14
  Speaker 7: out my house on one block if they want to
• 26:17
  Speaker 7: and stick me in another district.
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: And it's just that's that's how precise these things are now.
• 26:22
  Speaker 6: So I don't know that they need to get started.
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: Plus you want to kind of see what the census
• 26:25
  Speaker 7: is showing you once.
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: We get there.
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: The other thing I caution, I don't know, I caution,
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: but I.
• 26:30
  Speaker 7: Just say what experience has taught me is sometimes it
• 26:33
  Speaker 7: looks like the political winds are blowing in a position
• 26:35
  Speaker 7: in particular direction, and things change over time. We've seen
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: these maps come out at the beginning of it of
• 26:41
  Speaker 7: a decade, and by the time you get to the
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: end of the decade, they're not as politically safe or
• 26:46
  Speaker 7: you know, politically guaranteed for either party as they were at.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: The bottle by words. But wait until chat GBT Rock
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: and an AI to be named later, I'll say the
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: same thing about screwing the Democrats. The Republicans will use
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: that map. Uh Drucker, Good to see you. I follow
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: him on exit, David M. Drucker read him at the Dispatch.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Come right back right here on the he Hewit Show, America.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewittt, joined by Byron york Key of the
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Washington Examiner and a Fox News contributor. Byron, as a Virginian,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I voted no on the measure to redistrict of state.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I expect it will pass because it's a you know,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: fifty eight percent voted for Kamala Harris here and or
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: fifty two percent voted for Kamala Harris here and forty
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: six percent vote for Donald Trump. So I expected to pass.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And we've been just delused with Obama. Barack Obama ads
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: lying to us about Republicans. They're trying to see election,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So I expect it will pass. On the other hand,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I was with the Harland descent in Reynoalds v. Sims.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Redistricting does not bother me. It's up to the legislatures,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: and if the voters don't like it, they can throw
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: it out. What do you what do you think?
• 27:52
  Speaker 9: Well, I'm with you on the on the latter point
• 27:55
  Speaker 9: that it's not in the constitution, it's constitutional what they're doing,
• 28:01
  Speaker 9: and I also agree that it's going to have consequences.
• 28:03
  Speaker 9: I was actually looking. One of the ways I like
• 28:06
  Speaker 9: to look at this is just to see how many
• 28:08
  Speaker 9: total votes were cast in the last House election, which
• 28:12
  Speaker 9: is of course twenty twenty four, where all the members
• 28:15
  Speaker 9: of the Virginia delegation in the House and every other
• 28:19
  Speaker 9: member of the House based election. So Democrats won in
• 28:24
  Speaker 9: Virginia twenty twenty four two million, two hundred and seventy
• 28:27
  Speaker 9: four thousand votes. Excuse me, two million, two hundred and
• 28:32
  Speaker 9: seventy four thousand. Yes, Republicans won two million, one hundred
• 28:36
  Speaker 9: and eight thousand votes. That's pretty close. That's one hundred
• 28:39
  Speaker 9: and sixty six thousand votes out of four point three
• 28:46
  Speaker 9: almost four point four million votes. And you know, the
• 28:49
  Speaker 9: idea that you get a ten to one division, that
• 28:53
  Speaker 9: ten Democrats one Republican is just crazy. But that's what
• 28:58
  Speaker 9: they're doing. And by the way, I mean, I think
• 29:00
  Speaker 9: Democrats have had this sense of righteous anger ever since
• 29:06
  Speaker 9: the Texas thing, the Republican redistricting in Texas, which is
• 29:10
  Speaker 9: probably not going to work out all that great for Republicans,
• 29:13
  Speaker 9: and they've sensed that anything goes since then, and so
• 29:16
  Speaker 9: they're doing what they're doing in California, They're doing Virginia
• 29:19
  Speaker 9: in other places.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Now it's going to happen in Florida as well, especially
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: if the Supreme Court strikes down, as I hope they do,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Section five of the Voting Rights Act because race ought
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: not to be used either to draw districts for minorities
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: or to stop minorities from winning district It ought to
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: be a neutral thing. It ought not to be used
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: at all. You know, if the way to end discrimination
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: based on races, to stop discriminating based on race, famous
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: quote by the Chief Justice. So I'm hoping they strike
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: it down. That means Louisiana will have to read district Florida.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Does anyone have any grounds to object to anything anymore?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Because both parties are equal opportunity offenders of the idea
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: of oh, we're fair around No, we're not. We've never
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: been fair. It's politics.
• 30:04
  Speaker 9: Well, you know, I don't really mind the unfair part
• 30:07
  Speaker 9: as much as if they would just do it once
• 30:09
  Speaker 9: every ten years, if they would just do it around
• 30:13
  Speaker 9: the sense, I think things would be better. But since
• 30:17
  Speaker 9: since then we have seen and now, I mean, you
• 30:20
  Speaker 9: could argue that, for example, the population of Texas has
• 30:24
  Speaker 9: changed a lot, gotten significantly redder between where we talk
• 30:28
  Speaker 9: today and six years ago, in two thousand, Okay, in
• 30:31
  Speaker 9: twenty twenty, fine, but still doing the census once every
• 30:37
  Speaker 9: ten years has worked, and doing redistricting around the census
• 30:42
  Speaker 9: has worked. Now they're just doing any old time. And
• 30:46
  Speaker 9: these basically these laws that they're passing in California and
• 30:52
  Speaker 9: Virginia are basically taking the redistricting process out of the
• 30:59
  Speaker 9: Commission and giving it to the legislature just for the
• 31:02
  Speaker 9: next couple elections, just so we can go.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: It'll never come back.
• 31:06
  Speaker 9: And then we promise we'll go back to doing it
• 31:09
  Speaker 9: the traditional work.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Well Byron, The bottom line here is there are thirty
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: one red states and thirty one red states in twenty
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: or nineteen blue states, and that might move it a
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: little bit around the margins. But the Senate, if this
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: continues and the great sort continues, the Democrats are screwing
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: themselves because they've abandoned any pretense to fairness. Anthony Kennedy
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: used to try year after year after year to come
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: up with a formula and that we get into higher mathematics,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and the other justices would roll their eyes at him.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: We're just in the political world, and unless the fever
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: breaks on partisanship, we're never going to leave that world.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm okay with that. I'm not concerned about the
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: future of the Republic that way, are you not?
• 31:51
  Speaker 9: Particularly? I mean, redistricting has existed a long time. Certainly
• 31:57
  Speaker 9: for the last fifty plus years, years or sixty years,
• 32:02
  Speaker 9: redistricting to achieve some sort of racial balance in the
• 32:06
  Speaker 9: legislature has resulted in just crazy looking districts that everybody
• 32:12
  Speaker 9: knows are not really true to the spirit of representative democracy.
• 32:18
  Speaker 9: But there it is, and it's been done with the
• 32:21
  Speaker 9: approval of courts and by legislatures on the basis of
• 32:25
  Speaker 9: the census. And that's I mean, it's okay.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: So make a prediction for me, Byron. If the Supreme
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Court does strike down Section five of the Voting Rights Act,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: how many screaming Democrats will we hear and how loud
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: would the screams be one.
• 32:39
  Speaker 9: Hundred percent and they'll be filled with righteous anger.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: You think any of them will bring up the Virginia
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: map that they are on the right. It's just so,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: that's what bothered me the most of the hypocrisy. Last question,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: President extended the seagefire. I'm kind of surprised by that
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: because they're already jumping on him online for giving the
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: power to the Iranians to extend this. I don't think
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: he's been taken to the clanic, the old literally seriously thing,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: do you think he really expects something from the Iranians?
• 33:13
  Speaker 9: You know, it's it's hard to believe. I have to say,
• 33:17
  Speaker 9: I think he has mishandled some of this in the
• 33:21
  Speaker 9: sense that he's been so eager to get an agreement
• 33:25
  Speaker 9: that he jumped on the last sort of reported agreement
• 33:29
  Speaker 9: that really wasn't an agreement because you can't believe a
• 33:32
  Speaker 9: word the Iranians say. And now, I mean if you
• 33:36
  Speaker 9: read the statement that he just posted on truth social
• 33:39
  Speaker 9: and it said, you know, in order to give around
• 33:43
  Speaker 9: time to rearm and get it a little bit more
• 33:46
  Speaker 9: ammunition to get us back together, I'm going to give
• 33:48
  Speaker 9: them an extension of the ceasefire. I mean, it feels
• 33:51
  Speaker 9: kind of like that.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: They got to figure out who I think Bahidi is
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: running the country. He's a hardliner's hard binaries like ham
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: and e. And if the heat's running the country, there's
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: not going to be a seashire for law. And we
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: grabbed another tanker last night. They're going to bleed out. Byron,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: last word to you, well.
• 34:11
  Speaker 9: The blockade is the thing to do. I mean, I
• 34:14
  Speaker 9: think if this works out very well in the United
• 34:17
  Speaker 9: States favor, it's going to be because of the blockade,
• 34:20
  Speaker 9: because what has happened in the past is intense economic
• 34:24
  Speaker 9: pressure has brought Iran around. It brought them around in
• 34:28
  Speaker 9: the first Trump administration, and I don't believe that October
• 34:32
  Speaker 9: sixth would have happened if the policy of pressuring Iran
• 34:37
  Speaker 9: had been continued in the Biden administration rather than ended.
• 34:41
  Speaker 9: And it will work again now.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I hope they just keep sparing tankers that will bring
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: them to their senses. One tanker, one cargo ship down.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I hope they get many more. Byron New York bomb
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: on exit Byron new York.
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: I love my classes.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Welcome back in America. And Hugh hewittt joined now by
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: the wonder only lilacs as and James Lilac as in
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: lil like James Lilac dot subs dot dot com or
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: lilac dot com. James. First, I got to ask you
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: a question about CEO of Apple, Tim Cook's retirement splash
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: all over everywhere. Do you care in the least about
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: who runs Apple? Yeah?
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: I really do.
• 35:22
  Speaker 10: I wanted to be somebody who's got, you know, the
• 35:25
  Speaker 10: founder's ingenuity and clarity and the ability to intimidate the
• 35:29
  Speaker 10: hell out of people so that they actually damp in
• 35:31
  Speaker 10: their drawers in the elevator because they said the wrong word.
• 35:34
  Speaker 10: Sim Cook was never that guy. I remember reading an
• 35:37
  Speaker 10: interview with him, I think in the New York Times.
• 35:38
  Speaker 10: They did a profile where he was talking about the
• 35:40
  Speaker 10: wonders of Apple Intelligence, of all the things that is
• 35:43
  Speaker 10: going to do your mail and your scheduling and Syrian
• 35:45
  Speaker 10: all the rest of this, and he rewaxed rahapsodic about it.
• 35:49
  Speaker 10: I have never been able to get it to do
• 35:51
  Speaker 10: anything for me of consequence and use whatsoever. And I
• 35:55
  Speaker 10: know that if Steve good Old Late Limited Steve had
• 35:58
  Speaker 10: been in charge of Apple during this whole Apple Intelligence deal,
• 36:02
  Speaker 10: there would have been heads on pikes in Coopertino that
• 36:06
  Speaker 10: there would have been teams played alive and salted for
• 36:10
  Speaker 10: their failures to do so. I think that Cook brought
• 36:12
  Speaker 10: that imperative nature to it, and he seems to have
• 36:14
  Speaker 10: been a caretaker.
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: Not a scully.
• 36:16
  Speaker 10: But you know now, don't get me wrong, Steve Jobs
• 36:20
  Speaker 10: wasn't exactly perfect in all respects. He was the guy
• 36:22
  Speaker 10: who gave us what they called skew morphism, where your
• 36:25
  Speaker 10: apps looked like the real thing, and so we had
• 36:27
  Speaker 10: calendars that looked like desk blotters with the stitching that
• 36:30
  Speaker 10: apparently was borrowed from his own yacht. It looked ugly.
• 36:34
  Speaker 10: It was a strange transitional thing. Some of the early
• 36:36
  Speaker 10: quick time interfaces where he had to fight a little
• 36:38
  Speaker 10: thumbwheel and twist it around, were stupid.
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: They didn't work.
• 36:41
  Speaker 10: The iMac had a round puck monks that was pointless
• 36:45
  Speaker 10: and hard to control.
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: Nevertheless, he got it right nine.
• 36:48
  Speaker 10: Times out of ten, and an Apple became the company
• 36:50
  Speaker 10: it did because of him. Cook has been a caretaker
• 36:53
  Speaker 10: vision pro with the glasses that I would love to
• 36:56
  Speaker 10: have if they weren't nine thousand, seven hundred and forty
• 36:58
  Speaker 10: eight billion dollars seems to be the only thing that
• 37:00
  Speaker 10: he's left behind.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: Will know more in the future, but Apple's going to
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: do fine, and.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Let me buy I'll land this playing the second time.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Do you care that Read Hastings is quitting from Netflix?
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: I don't care one one little bit.
• 37:14
  Speaker 10: That's a company that actually, you know, those of us
• 37:17
  Speaker 10: who were with Netflix from the beginning, remember you'd get
• 37:19
  Speaker 10: this look in the middle.
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: You'd get a DVD in the mole and you can
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: watch it and like five times for a week and
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: then nail it back.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 37:28
  Speaker 10: And the minute you held that in your hand, you
• 37:30
  Speaker 10: know the Blockbuster Paradigm was dead. Well not a company
• 37:33
  Speaker 10: is not that entirely dead all anymore. It's something completely different.
• 37:36
  Speaker 10: It's one a big one of the myriad and streaming
• 37:38
  Speaker 10: services that are grappling three year attention. So, I mean,
• 37:41
  Speaker 10: what they did was spend an awful lot of money
• 37:43
  Speaker 10: and an awful lot of stuff that some people called
• 37:45
  Speaker 10: woke and stupid and a waste of coin.
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: And I tend to think that they're right. So we'll
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: see who comes along next.
• 37:50
  Speaker 10: I would love to be the person to whom I'm
• 37:51
  Speaker 10: pitching a television show myself.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: So now I've named two CEO Texas. And now my proposition,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: which I've been hiding word broke weight that afternoon, that
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I want to say your name correctly. Sheila Sheriff Phillis McCormick,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: congressman from Florida, is expected to resign today rather than
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: have the Ethics Committee Condemner for stealing five million dollars.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: She's following Eric Paulwell Democrat and mister Gunzalees Republican out
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: the door. Apparently we've had a run of really bad
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: actors as congressmen. Do you care about any of these people?
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: Absolutely so. Now the two of the guys that you'd mentioned, Cook,
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: who is responsible for.
• 38:31
  Speaker 10: The little you know, the caretaking of all the devices
• 38:33
  Speaker 10: that run my life, that are integrately woven into the
• 38:36
  Speaker 10: DNA of my existence. Netflix created a new paradigm and
• 38:39
  Speaker 10: still produces entertainment that I like to watch. I give
• 38:42
  Speaker 10: my money to them, Congress. I don't have a choice.
• 38:45
  Speaker 10: They take my money to the point of you know what,
• 38:47
  Speaker 10: pay up rersots, you go to jail.
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: So I can't care very very much.
• 38:51
  Speaker 10: Whether not these people behave the way they do, take
• 38:54
  Speaker 10: the money that they do, and what galls you is
• 38:57
  Speaker 10: that the names you just mentioned with the CEOs, we
• 38:59
  Speaker 10: know those because there are people who.
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: Are big and prominent and do productive things for society.
• 39:04
  Speaker 10: The other two. How many people know who the second
• 39:06
  Speaker 10: lady that you mentioned. I mean I read about her.
• 39:08
  Speaker 10: Some people may have read about Swallwall. But these are
• 39:11
  Speaker 10: people who push through votes that affect your life, right
• 39:13
  Speaker 10: down to the detail of how much light your bulb
• 39:15
  Speaker 10: comes up or how.
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: Much water your toilet flushes, and when they're stealing from
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: us it yes, yes, yes, you take.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Difference at the intersection of those two classes billionaire businessmen
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: and politicians. Who you really don't like. Is Tom Steyer,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the billionaire who has spent more money than God would
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: do on any other project to become California Guy. He's
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: buying a spot on the ticket, or trying to. I
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: hope he loses, just because no one should spend that
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: amount of money. I mean, it's an obscene amount of money.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many billions, but it's a lot
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: of money. What do you think about people trying to
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: buy their way into an office of significance?
• 39:57
  Speaker 10: Well, as I used to say back in the nineteen eighties,
• 39:59
  Speaker 10: you know, if tell it, if advertising worked as well
• 40:01
  Speaker 10: as they said that it did, then everybody would join
• 40:04
  Speaker 10: the army and nobody would be on drugs, because all
• 40:06
  Speaker 10: we got in those days was joined the army.
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: And here's your brain on drugs.
• 40:10
  Speaker 10: The things that affect people's decisions, they're voting patterns and
• 40:13
  Speaker 10: the rest of it.
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: If they're so malleable.
• 40:15
  Speaker 10: That they can be affected by a pretty, you know,
• 40:18
  Speaker 10: thirty second spot of the guy in the sunset with
• 40:21
  Speaker 10: his family, I don't know what to do about that.
• 40:23
  Speaker 10: But there's not a single there's not a single qu
• 40:29
  Speaker 10: quantifiable sum that would get me to vote for AOC.
• 40:32
  Speaker 10: There's not a single quantifiable sum that you could spread
• 40:35
  Speaker 10: around everywhere to make me vote for somebody who's inimicable
• 40:38
  Speaker 10: to my interests and my passions and my ideals.
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: So I don't mind how much they spend on it.
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: I wins.
• 40:44
  Speaker 10: I think it kind of disqualifies people in a way
• 40:46
  Speaker 10: because the money can be put to better purpose than
• 40:49
  Speaker 10: self aggrandizement. And no, I don't believe that running for
• 40:51
  Speaker 10: office is a noble statement that they do.
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: I think they want to be numbered amongst the governors.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: And so this is the next step for them to
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: take last.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Question, I'm agree with them. Saved the best for laughs.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: X has figured out. The algorithm has figured out. Then
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a sucker for the two and a half to
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: three minute movie clip that has a little story within
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: a story. So I got fat a little Don Draper
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: last night a scene from mad Men. I've never watched
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: any mad Men, and I thought it was a really
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: good scene. Did you like mad Men?
• 41:20
  Speaker 11: Yeah?
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: I loved Madmen absolutely.
• 41:22
  Speaker 10: I wish it had been a little bit more about
• 41:23
  Speaker 10: advertising than it actually was, but it was a lot
• 41:26
  Speaker 10: of advertising enough, and it was about a glory, glorious
• 41:29
  Speaker 10: age of advertising and a glorious age of New York
• 41:32
  Speaker 10: nineteen sixties. Things are starting to get bad in New York,
• 41:34
  Speaker 10: that's true, but the city still has the bones that
• 41:36
  Speaker 10: has always had and the life of an executive in
• 41:40
  Speaker 10: a steel.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: He froze, He froze, but it was a very dramatic freeze.
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: That was a little bit too freely give Whether you
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: like word end up, you've.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Fallen apart, James, we have to end this get an action.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: You've completely frozen. But we had a very dramatic a
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: fellow like actually more like a Hamlet like hand in
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the air. When you froze the leg you can get
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: a word in now. I think, don't worry about that.
• 42:11
  Speaker 10: The internet connection here at the FRED and it should
• 42:13
  Speaker 10: be rock solid in the future. All to my best,
• 42:15
  Speaker 10: trible shot before next we speak. But watch management. It
• 42:18
  Speaker 10: is a great American show.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: All right. I'll take that to the bank, Lilacs. Thank you,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: come right back. Thank you for listening to highly concentrated Hugh.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: And don't forget. One of our great sponsors is Consumer
• 42:30
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• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I'm taking this interview on April fourteenth, that we're playing
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: on April twenty first, because Rachel Goldberg Pollan is available
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: and her brand new book, When We See You Again
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: is actually one of the most moving books I've ever read.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: This is one of the most difficult interviews I think
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I've ever had to do. Rachel Goldberg polland welcome back.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I thought this was going to be a book about grieving.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: It's really a book of grief. And I know you
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: are suffering, and I know you're about to do a
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: book tour where a lot of people are going to
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: ask you a lot of stupid questions because they haven't
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: read from the book. Are you ready for that?
• 44:16
  Speaker 8: You know, you're making me really get choked up. I'm
• 44:20
  Speaker 8: so thankful to you, Hugh, for having me first. I
• 44:23
  Speaker 8: just want to tell you how grateful I am. And
• 44:28
  Speaker 8: I don't know if I'm ready for it. I don't know.
• 44:32
  Speaker 8: Someone else asked me that yesterday. And I'm very touched
• 44:37
  Speaker 8: that you've read the book. And I think it's a
• 44:40
  Speaker 8: very confusing book to explain to people, because I think
• 44:44
  Speaker 8: what it really is is it is just a book
• 44:47
  Speaker 8: about two things, love and pain, and that's it sounds
• 44:55
  Speaker 8: almost mysterious. But I'm glad that you've read it and
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: now you have a piece of a molecule of my
• 45:02
  Speaker 8: pain and somehow that helps me, and very much that
• 45:07
  Speaker 8: was I You know, I have felt connected to you, John,
• 45:10
  Speaker 8: and I our family has felt connected to since the
• 45:13
  Speaker 8: very beginning of this arduous journey that we were on,
• 45:17
  Speaker 8: from the moment that hersh was stolen from us, and
• 45:21
  Speaker 8: you have been a compassionate and really kind person that
• 45:27
  Speaker 8: we felt was out there, you know, with us, and
• 45:31
  Speaker 8: we thank you for that.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Well. I was with Ambassador Robert O'Brien this morning and
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: I told him I was leaving his conference to come
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: back and talk to you. He has to be remembered
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: to you. He shared some of your story in a
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: different way. He lost his son, but not in the
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: horrific way you did. But I now have a book
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: to tell people when you are ready to understand what
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: it is you're dealing with. This is a guide almost
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: of the fact, not big. It's not a how to book.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: It's just the reality of suffering. And I can't I
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: don't have the quote right in front of me here
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: it is. I am actually one massive scar now from
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: page two seventeen. Would you explain to people why, because
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: it makes so much sense when you've read the book,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: but they may not remember. Hirsch was taken on the
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: first day of the October seventh master and kidnapping. He
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: was murdered on day three hundred and twenty eight, I
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: think thirty eight. And there's a lot.
• 46:32
  Speaker 11: Of funny out you were right, you were right well.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: And there's that suffering. Then there's the suffering of finding out.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Then there's suffering of barian. It's all suffering.
• 46:44
  Speaker 8: Yes, it's all different brands of pain and mourning and
• 46:48
  Speaker 8: loss and grief and all of us human beings. You know,
• 46:52
  Speaker 8: this is part of the human enterprise. No one is
• 46:55
  Speaker 8: going to get out unscathed. There are different brands and
• 46:58
  Speaker 8: textures and level as you just mentioned, and there's no
• 47:04
  Speaker 8: competition of pain.
• 47:06
  Speaker 11: It's all pain.
• 47:07
  Speaker 8: And I think sharing and connecting about it is something
• 47:14
  Speaker 8: that is uniquely human. And I've had thousands at this point,
• 47:21
  Speaker 8: thousands of people from every faith you can imagine, from
• 47:25
  Speaker 8: every background, you can imagine, from every country you can imagine,
• 47:29
  Speaker 8: who have reached out to share their bereavement and their
• 47:33
  Speaker 8: loss of their loved ones.
• 47:36
  Speaker 11: And really it is.
• 47:40
  Speaker 8: A strange, interesting and thorny path that all of us
• 47:49
  Speaker 8: are walking on. And at the same time, I am
• 47:52
  Speaker 8: exceptionally blessed.
• 47:54
  Speaker 11: And I'm aware of that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 8: And having Hirsh, being Hirsh's mother was such a beautiful
• 48:01
  Speaker 8: gift and continues to be a gift because I will
• 48:04
  Speaker 8: always be the mother of Hersh always. And you know,
• 48:10
  Speaker 8: but it's figuring out how do I now breathe in
• 48:13
  Speaker 8: a world without air, or, as doctor Mary Francis O'Connor says,
• 48:21
  Speaker 8: how do you walk in the desert without water? And
• 48:26
  Speaker 8: yet many of us, you know, I'm not a unique person.
• 48:30
  Speaker 8: There are millions and millions of parents around the world.
• 48:34
  Speaker 8: As you just said, mister O'Brien, you know who have
• 48:37
  Speaker 8: lost children, and yet we all have to figure out
• 48:42
  Speaker 8: how do we how do we be here without this
• 48:46
  Speaker 8: person who's who's so intrinsic to who we are.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Everybody who has lost a child has suffered, but yours
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: is a very unique journey. And a few things I
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: want to make sure understand why they want to read
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: until we see you again. The first is the Tale
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: of the Two EpiPens, because it's so remarkable, it does
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: make one stop and pause. Would you quickly recount that?
• 49:18
  Speaker 11: So I've had a way of looking at the world.
• 49:22
  Speaker 8: I happened to be a person of faith, and I'm Jewish,
• 49:26
  Speaker 8: and i'm you know, challenge myself every day to be
• 49:30
  Speaker 8: a religious observant Jewish person, god fearing person. And my
• 49:35
  Speaker 8: father in law of blessed memory, he was a cardiovascular
• 49:41
  Speaker 8: and thoracic surgeon in Chicago, and one time he had
• 49:47
  Speaker 8: an incident where he was walking by a room of
• 49:50
  Speaker 8: a patient who wasn't his and he heard someone screaming
• 49:54
  Speaker 8: for a doctor, and he ran in and he could
• 49:56
  Speaker 8: see right away that one of the visitors was on
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: the floor have a anaphylactic shock, and so he screamed
• 50:03
  Speaker 8: to the nurse EpiPen, and she came running and she
• 50:06
  Speaker 8: handed him to EpiPens and he injected the EpiPen to
• 50:11
  Speaker 8: this visitor who was on the floor dying.
• 50:14
  Speaker 11: And then the team came in and he.
• 50:17
  Speaker 8: Was revived, and my father in law went to go
• 50:19
  Speaker 8: scrub in to do his first surgery. And it turns
• 50:23
  Speaker 8: out three days later he at his house was hosting
• 50:28
  Speaker 8: a meal on the Sabbath on Shabbat on Saturday, and
• 50:34
  Speaker 8: one of the guests at his Shabbat table at this
• 50:39
  Speaker 8: meal started to have anaphylactic shock. And normally my father
• 50:43
  Speaker 8: in law wouldn't have had an EpiPen, but suddenly he
• 50:46
  Speaker 8: remembered the nurse had given him two, and he accidentally
• 50:51
  Speaker 8: put the second one inside of his navy suit that
• 50:54
  Speaker 8: was hanging in his closet.
• 50:56
  Speaker 11: And my mother in law ran and got that EpiPen,
• 50:59
  Speaker 11: and they.
• 51:00
  Speaker 8: Saved this boy's life, who otherwise would have died because
• 51:03
  Speaker 8: even though they called nine to one one, the amount
• 51:05
  Speaker 8: of time it would have taken for them to arrive,
• 51:08
  Speaker 8: this boy would have died on the floor. Now, when
• 51:10
  Speaker 8: my father in law told me that story, he thought
• 51:13
  Speaker 8: it was very coincidental to me.
• 51:15
  Speaker 11: I said, how do you not see that?
• 51:17
  Speaker 8: That is exactly the way that the universe is organized
• 51:20
  Speaker 8: in ways where at the moment that you're experiencing something
• 51:25
  Speaker 8: that seems horrific, maybe it's an opportunity for.
• 51:29
  Speaker 11: Something else that's going to come after it.
• 51:32
  Speaker 8: And so there's a piece in the book about this incident,
• 51:36
  Speaker 8: and I go into it more vibrantly there. But this
• 51:41
  Speaker 8: is how, you know, I try very hard to remind
• 51:47
  Speaker 8: myself that we don't always understand what is unfolding in
• 51:53
  Speaker 8: front of us.
• 51:54
  Speaker 11: My mother really wanted.
• 51:55
  Speaker 8: Me to be a cultured young person, and would take
• 52:00
  Speaker 8: me to the Art Institute in Chicago many times when
• 52:05
  Speaker 8: I was a young girl. And our favorite painting was
• 52:09
  Speaker 8: this painting by George Sarah of Sunday Afternoon on the
• 52:16
  Speaker 8: banks of La Jas Gram and it's epixelated. He was
• 52:23
  Speaker 8: a point a list, and so when you would look
• 52:26
  Speaker 8: at the painting very close up, it made no sense.
• 52:28
  Speaker 11: It was just a bunch of blurry dots.
• 52:31
  Speaker 8: But then she would say to me, now close your
• 52:33
  Speaker 8: eyes and take fifteen steps back, and now open them,
• 52:37
  Speaker 8: and suddenly there was this gorgeous tapestry, this masterpiece that
• 52:41
  Speaker 8: everything fell into place. But when you're so close to it,
• 52:45
  Speaker 8: sometimes it doesn't make sense. And that's sort of this
• 52:49
  Speaker 8: place where all of us, most of us are in
• 52:52
  Speaker 8: in this life, where it doesn't always make sense, and
• 52:56
  Speaker 8: sometimes things appear to be unfauld, and that is I
• 53:03
  Speaker 8: actually think that is what a lot of being human is.
• 53:08
  Speaker 11: It's not understandable.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: There are things in the book, things that I've never
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: seen before. I've never heard of death in Torone. I've
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: never heard of the King Solomon's story. I have not
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: read Victor Frunkle, What is your Why? I didn't know
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: any of this, but now I do, and I am
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: better for knowing it. I'm sort of armored, don't. I
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: don't know how many people can do what you've done, Rachel,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: or what John has done, by the way, as a father.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: What crushed me is that I didn't I'm not Jewish,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: I'm Irish Catholic. I did not know that Orthodox Jews
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: father and son prayed under the same shawl, and that
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: at a particular series of prayers, and that he had
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: prayed under the same shawl since Hirst was three feet tall.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Broke my heart. I thought John's afterwards was touching and
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: completed your agony, and because it's parallel, it's a different
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: kind of agony, but it's really beautifully done. Let me
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: talk about a couple of up points in the book
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: so they understand there are moments of transcendent joy or
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: calls you and says, come see me in the hospital.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Do you want to tell people why.
• 54:22
  Speaker 11: So?
• 54:22
  Speaker 8: Or Levy was kidnapped with Hirsh from the same bomb shelter. Heirsh,
• 54:27
  Speaker 8: for people who may not know, was at a music
• 54:32
  Speaker 8: festival that had been advertised for love, unity and peace.
• 54:38
  Speaker 8: And on that morning of October seventh, at that music festival,
• 54:44
  Speaker 8: terrorists descended upon the festival and the young people who
• 54:49
  Speaker 8: were there were hiding in all sorts of places. Hirsh
• 54:52
  Speaker 8: was in a bomb shelter where there were twenty eight
• 54:56
  Speaker 8: young people smashed into a five foot by eight foot
• 55:00
  Speaker 8: it sheltered, so that's think of a small bathroom, and
• 55:03
  Speaker 8: they're twenty eight people smashed in. The terrorists ended up
• 55:07
  Speaker 8: throwing in hand grenades and then sprang the room with
• 55:12
  Speaker 8: machine gun fire. Eighteen of those young people were killed instantly.
• 55:18
  Speaker 8: Everyone was wounded. Four of the wounded were then taken
• 55:22
  Speaker 8: by gunpoint and loaded onto a pickup truck and kidnapped
• 55:26
  Speaker 8: into Gaza. Hirsh was one of them, along with Eliot Cohen,
• 55:33
  Speaker 8: or Levy and alone Ohel and or Levy ended up
• 55:40
  Speaker 8: being separated from Hersh on that first day. They hadn't
• 55:44
  Speaker 8: met each other before they were on that pickup truck,
• 55:47
  Speaker 8: and then they re met in the tunnels of Gaza,
• 55:51
  Speaker 8: and Or called us when he was released. On day
• 55:56
  Speaker 8: four ninety one. Or Levy was finally released, found out
• 56:00
  Speaker 8: that his wife had been killed in the bomb shelter Enov,
• 56:05
  Speaker 8: but his two year old son was waiting at home
• 56:08
  Speaker 8: for them that entire time, and he went to the
• 56:12
  Speaker 8: hospital and he asked to speak to us, and we
• 56:15
  Speaker 8: couldn't figure out, you know, why would he want to
• 56:17
  Speaker 8: talk to us, And we went and met with him,
• 56:19
  Speaker 8: and he ended up sharing his encounters in the bowels
• 56:25
  Speaker 8: of Gaza of these catacomb like tunnels. Or Levy ended
• 56:34
  Speaker 8: up spending a few days with Hersh in captivity and
• 56:39
  Speaker 8: he got to really know Hersh. You know, when you're
• 56:41
  Speaker 8: in a dark tunnel and there's nothing but the person
• 56:44
  Speaker 8: sitting across from you, you really get to know them.
• 56:48
  Speaker 8: And he wanted to share with us, and he really
• 56:53
  Speaker 8: gave to me. It will always be a turning point
• 56:58
  Speaker 8: in my life. Speak in that hospital room for several
• 57:02
  Speaker 8: hours to or Levy and the name Or in Hebrew,
• 57:06
  Speaker 8: the word or means light, and so to me, it
• 57:10
  Speaker 8: was very appropriate that this young man gave us back
• 57:17
  Speaker 8: some of Hirsch's light by sharing what he had encountered
• 57:21
  Speaker 8: with him. And I share about that in detail in
• 57:24
  Speaker 8: the book. What he told us about Kirsh in captivity,
• 57:28
  Speaker 8: which we knew nothing until then.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: What a gift. And I was just going to say
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: one thing that he shared with you, Hirsh heard you,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: and I found that so inspiring to read that. I
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: don't know what the circumstances were, so I'm going to
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: had a TV on in one of the captor's apartments
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: are underground. But Hirsh heard you in one of your
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: thousands of interviews. You know, one thousands of interviews. You're indefatigable.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: But I don't know that the joy is the right word,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: but meaning come from that certainly true.
• 58:04
  Speaker 8: It was a huge sense of he knew, he knew,
• 58:11
  Speaker 8: even though he was in horrific, unimaginable torment, torture, agony,
• 58:18
  Speaker 8: and misery, he knew that John and I were running
• 58:23
  Speaker 8: to the ends of the earth. He knew, he knew
• 58:27
  Speaker 8: we were speaking to the people in the highest echelons
• 58:31
  Speaker 8: of power and influence. And there is some And what
• 58:37
  Speaker 8: was interesting, as you said, what or said, is it's
• 58:41
  Speaker 8: not that he heard that you spoke to x Y
• 58:46
  Speaker 8: and Z.
• 58:47
  Speaker 11: He heard your voice talking.
• 58:50
  Speaker 8: In an interview, telling the interviewer, I have spoken to
• 58:56
  Speaker 8: x Y and Z. And I thought, here is this
• 58:59
  Speaker 8: boy who was returned to us, Hugh, you know, in
• 59:02
  Speaker 8: a body bag, skeletal, nissing an arm, his dominant arm
• 59:09
  Speaker 8: bearing signs of torture with six bullet wounds at such
• 59:14
  Speaker 8: close range that his hair was filled with gunpowder.
• 59:19
  Speaker 11: And he knew.
• 59:23
  Speaker 8: And by the way, I'm not sure that everybody understands
• 59:26
  Speaker 8: hersh is the singular American hostage who was stolen on
• 59:31
  Speaker 8: October seventh, who was returned after being killed in captivity.
• 59:37
  Speaker 8: There were Americans who were held hostage who were returned
• 59:41
  Speaker 8: thankfully in the deals that ensued. And there were Americans
• 59:46
  Speaker 8: who were hostages who had been murdered on October seventh,
• 59:50
  Speaker 8: and their bodies had been taken to be used as
• 59:53
  Speaker 8: bargaining chips by the terrorists. The one and only American
• 59:58
  Speaker 8: citizen who was stolen on a October seventh, survived three
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 8: hundred and twenty eight days in hell on Earth, and
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 8: then was executed along with the other beautiful five people
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 8: he was being held with whose names were are Whose
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 8: names are Ori, almog alex Eden, and Carmel. Three young men,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 8: two young women. Hirsh was the only American that was
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 8: returned in a body bag who was killed in captivity.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: That is such an unfortunate and tragic statement. It's true.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned. I'm going to bring you more. Rachel Goldberg
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Pollen her brand new book When We See You Again.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: As I think I said, it's not a story about grief,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: it is grief. It's an incredibly inspiring story as well
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: about the people who rallied around Hersh and who Hirsh
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: rallied to stay alive during all that long time in
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: the tunnels. It's about the barbarity of Hamas. It's about
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: human resilience and the suffering of the entire Goldberg Pollen family.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: And I think you'll find it to be incredibly moving experience.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: She is on her book tour. It's every day, it's
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: got to be like razor blades to her, but she's
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: an incredible inspirational figure, as is her whole family, as
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: was Hirsh. Don't miss getting when we see you again
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: and come right back for a part treat the Internet.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to highly concentrated Hugh, and don't
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: forget one of our great sponsors is Consumer seulor one
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• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Hewittt. I've in conversation
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: with Rachel Goldberg Pollen, which I've taped earlier. This is
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: part three event in which I salute really her remarkable resilience.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: It's also a tribute to a mother's ability to write that.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: I think I know hersh a little bit now, and
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: I've had twenty three year olds. They're kind of goofy
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: and fun and they go on adventures. And her should
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: been to Europe at fifteen on his own. He didn't
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: want to go with a bunch of friends. If he
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: go as a clump, you come back, you stay as
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: a clump, he wanted. I mean, you have effectively conveyed
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: the essence of Hirsch in this book. I will see
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: you again. I want to ask you about Shadow and
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Bone by Lee Bardugo. It turns out. Hirsch had a
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: book which was then past captive to captive. I've never
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: heard of Shadow and Bone by Lee Bardugo. It's a
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: young adult fantasy book. Have you had the will to
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: read it yet? Rachel?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 8: Well, as you mentioned, you know he was a voracious reader.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 8: And when he was held captive, or Levy told us
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 8: that Hirsch said to his captors, I need to read.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 11: I need to read. They were all going out of
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 11: their minds.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 8: And he had enough of a rapport with these captors
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 8: that somebody found him an English book in Gaza and
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 8: brought it to him. And it was the only possession
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 8: he had, this book, and so he had.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 11: Read it over and over and over and over.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 8: And then when he was with or Levy and Ellie
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 8: Sharabi and Alone Ohel and Eliah Cohen, the captors said
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 8: to hersh on day fifty four, come on, you're going home.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 11: Be happy.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 8: You'll see your mother today. And they took him, and
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 8: so he left the book for them. That's how certain
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 8: he was that he was going home. His one worldly
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 8: possession he left with them, and that book, or Levy
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 8: said he read about fifteen times.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 11: Each of them read it.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 8: Or Levy taught Elia Cohen how to read English using
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 8: that book.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 11: When Or and.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 8: Ellie Sharabi were freed in the first in the first
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 8: batch from that group that we're freed on day four
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 8: ninety one, they left the book for Elia Cohen. And
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 8: when Elia was freed, he left the book for Alon
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 8: o Hell and that book became a lifeline, a distraction
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 8: because again they were in these tunnels with terrible conditions,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 8: and so I ended up also in the book I
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 8: talk about that I came across that book in a
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 8: very random place and bought it at a secondhand book sale,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 8: and it is on my shelf, but I haven't managed
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 8: to open it yet.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 11: So one day, I'm sure I'm going to.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: I'm going to read it now because I want to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: know what could possibly have given someone sustenance. I also
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: want to cover a few more than more tidbits. You
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: really have to read. When we see you again, Leonard
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: and Alex at Hersha's grade, you don't want to go,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: You and your daughters and husband go. They go to
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: the grave. You don't. They text you come over and
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: you meet Leonard and Alex and it turns out Hirsh
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: has been a matchmaker that's right.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 8: That's why we got chapter I called match Made in Heaven.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 8: Alex and Leonard were visiting from Germany. Hirsh had made
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 8: a lot of friends in Germany over the years through
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 8: his soccer fan club.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 11: Their sister city.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 8: Is Bremen, Germany, and the fans in Bremen, who are
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 8: German and Christian and you know, very different from Hersh's background.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 8: Hirsh became very good friends with this core group of
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 8: people who were so beautiful. When October seventh happened, they
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 8: immediately reached out to me and said, what can we do?
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 8: And I was hysterical and I didn't know what anyone
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 8: could do. And they got on buses and they went
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 8: to Berlin to the Bunsdag to advocate for Hersh and
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 8: to advocate for all of the hostages. Remember, Hugh, these
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 8: hostages were from all different countries. There were over thirty
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 8: countries of nationals being held hostage. They were Christians, Muslims, Jews,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 8: Hindus and Buddhists. And this tiny cohort of people in
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 8: Bremen started doing the first advocacy for all of the
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 8: hostages in Europe.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 11: This tiny group from Bremen and.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Let's hear more about this group from Bremen. In a moment,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back with Rachel Goldberg Polland. The story
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: is in the book When We See You Again. I
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: had pages and pages of notes because it's really a
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: riveting read. I hope you avail yourself at the opportunities
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: in bookstores everywhere. It's at Amazon, it's at Barnes and Noble.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Rachel Goldberg Pollend is, of course the author. When We
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: See You Again refers to both the tape that she
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: wore to mark the days that hersche was in captivity.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: She would change the tape every day. You can't miss
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: it in the books for in the airport. I recommend
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: it highly to you. I'll have her when I come back.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned. We do dop show Welcome Back America. I'm
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Hugh Huett talking with Rachel Goldberg Pollin about her brand
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: new book When We See You Again, about her son,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: hersh She was taken captive and murdered eventually by Hamas.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: And we were talking when we went to break about
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: a group of advocates for the release of the captives
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: in Europe in Bremen, Germany of all people, and they
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: had gotten together there Back to my interview.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 8: For part four, Alex and Leonard met each other through
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 8: this advocacy that they were constantly doing. Because Alex was
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 8: always held she knew Feline who was a very dear
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 8: friend of Hersh's, and so they would hold Hersh's poster.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 8: The first kidnapped posters that were published in Europe were
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 8: in German with Hersh's picture, and they ended up Leonard
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 8: ended up meeting Alex through this advocacy, and they are
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 8: now a couple, and they came to Israel for a
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 8: vacation and they came to they were in Tel Aviv,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 8: but they came to Jerusalem to visit Hirsh's grave because
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 8: they had read how according to Jewish tradition, we say
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 8: that if you set up, if you match, make three.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 11: Couples in your life, then you get an.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 8: Automatic amazing place in the world to come in heaven,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 8: in the garden of Eden. And so they were saying,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 8: we came to say thank you because we know that
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 8: in the Jewish tradition that you get a special place
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 8: when you make a match, and Hirsh was our matchmaker,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 8: and we know he's already in a wonderful place in
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 8: the world to come, but we know that his place
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 8: is enhanced because he made a match.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I thought that was so beautifully put. Now, for twenty
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: five years, I've been doing this, and I've interviewed a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people who write books about God, but they
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: write books about God, not about God being in their life.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: You write about Jacob Slash Isaac walking with a limb.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: You write about Moses, I want Moses here shouting at
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: me to choose life. You write about the oldest book
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: in the Bible and Job saying God gives, God takes.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Did you know you were this religious?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 8: I think I did. I don't feel that that has changed.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 8: I do say often, and this will sound very irritating
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 8: for people for whom this doesn't speak, and I understand,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 8: but I say, thank God.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 11: I believe in God. Thank God. I believe in God.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 11: Thank God.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 8: I believe in God. It has anchored and moored me
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 8: in this odyssey in which John and I find ourselves,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 8: and even from the very first few hours, when on
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 8: October seventh, when suddenly it started to solidify for me
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 8: that oh gosh, something really horrific has happened, and I
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 8: actually collapsed.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 11: I think I described that in the book. I collapsed.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 8: I hit the back of my head on we have marble,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 8: not marble like concrete kind of tiles, cement tiles.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 11: On our floor.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 8: And I screamed, I like shrieked from my gut. And
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 8: then I thought, God is here. God is here, Like
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 8: I knew, I felt that meaning. This wasn't arbitrary, this
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 8: wasn't random. Something is unfolding right this second. Something is
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 8: unwrapping right this second. I don't understand it. But this
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 8: is part of my the plan.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 11: I really believe that. I don't like it. I don't
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 11: know like the plan.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, did that come clear?
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 11: Plan?
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: I don't want your plan. You've taken your plan. You
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: are sissitis and you're doing it the book tour. I've
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: been on book tours so many times, Rachel. They're awful,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: and you went you.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 12: Went through somebody yet I know, but I want to
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 12: warn you all the stupid things that people told you
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 12: right after Hirsch was kidnapped, except for this, shouldn't bet
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 12: wife who said it will be a long time till
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 12: you see him again. Everybody lies to you because they
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 12: think that's the best thing. Rabbi Kushner, who's in your book,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 12: by the way I have of you him thirty years ago,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 12: and he said to me, show up and shut up.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 12: Anything you say will be stupid. And so when tragedy strikes,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 12: show up and shut up. But apparently everybody felt the
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 12: need to talk to you, and most of them said
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 12: stupid thing.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 11: Well, you know, it comes from a good place.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 8: And I am aware of that that nobody knows what
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 8: to say. It is impossible when such horrible things happen,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 8: and horrible things happen every day, and we don't know
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 8: what to say. And it comes from a place of
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 8: love and caring. And I know that I have been
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 8: guilty of that in the past, and I am.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 11: Guilty of that today.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 8: I always I'm trying so hard and I fail. I
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 8: try to say the right thing, and I screw it up.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 8: But we are all trying, and I do think that
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 8: it helps that it comes from a good place. I
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 8: don't think people are saying things at all with any
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 8: malice or intention to cause harm or pain to us,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 8: And unfortunately, inadvertently, sometimes the wrong things come out. I've
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 8: done it myself so many times in my life. I
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 8: actually have a little bit more compassion for myself for
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 8: Having done.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: That, two questions to conclude, And you've been very generous
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: and I think everyone ought to read when we see
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: you again, it's beautiful. The first question, you have received
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: these thousands of letters from the people you call the broken,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: and there are people who've suffered terrible things. Does someone
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: screen your letters for you? Because it would be awful
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: if they didn't, because there are so many evil people
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: in the world who would want to hurt you.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 11: Again, it's funny. First of all, they're not there.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 8: I wish there were letters, remember letters and like envelopes
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 8: and Sam Nelson all that.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 11: That, it's messages. It's messages.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 8: And we do have some people who help me sometimes
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 8: because it's just very overwhelming all the amount.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 11: But I actually have not.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 8: I mean, I feel like that's really inviting right now
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 8: saying like, actually nobody's been really mean.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry I shouldn't say that.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 11: I don't think huge has mean listeners. So I do
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 11: think that it will come.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 8: But but generally people are reaching out because they're in
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 8: pain and they want to share, they want to give
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 8: over their pain, and so I'm I'm appreciative that there's something.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 8: You know, we we have like a very irrational dysfunctional
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 8: relationship with pain. We humans, we moderns, we modern uh
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 8: you know, Western civilization. I mean, this is why we
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 8: have the opioid crisis, right, because we're so afraid of pain.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 8: We don't want any form of pain. You know, pain
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 8: also severe acute pain also promotes healing if it's if
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 8: it's recognized.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 11: And what happens with people.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 8: I remember years ago reading an article about a child
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 8: who was born without there's a syndrome where you're born
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 8: without the ability to Your nerves don't work the way
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 8: they're supposed to, and so you don't feel pain. And
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 8: when you don't feel physical pain, for example, it actually
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 8: can can lead to very dangerous situations and even death.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 8: And I think emotionally and psychologlogically and mentally we also
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 8: have that where we I'm not saying to only have pain,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 8: but pain is something and suffering and mourning and grief
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 8: and lost are things to be spoken about and shared
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 8: and digested and deconstructed and talked about and hopefully you know,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 8: not taboo.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Not taboo. I want to close your page seventy nine
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: from Rabbi Jacob, This world is a hallway before the
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: world to come prepare yourself in this hallway so that
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: you may enter the banquet hall. I'm absolutely convinced you
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: will hear Lubu Dada and Lubu Mama again, and I
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: am very glad you wrote it down that you believe
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: that too. I think when we see you again, we'll
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: just do worlds of good for grieving people. Though it is,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: it's so such a book of grief.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 11: Thank you so much.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 8: It means really your words have touched me deeply and
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 8: given me tremendous comfort. And I am endlessly, endlessly thankful
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 8: for your benevolence.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I have none, but I am thankful for your courage
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: to tell your story. And please relate to John how
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: much his final chapter meant to me as a father.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Rachel Goldberg Polland the book is when we
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: see you again. If you see her on TV in
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: the coming week, stop and listen. She knows of which
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: she speaks. Rachel Goldberg Polland thank you,