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From Supression to Creativity With Shana Francessca · Inspiring Stories

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Thank you for listening to de pictures Media radio. You rat you readything to
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me? Oh well, jus well not a bad stop along at need sol
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smash stop along? Is it dead? These imensity? What if cutting off
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our curiosity ensures our demise both individually and collectively? And our next guest literally
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means, what if our curiosity could heal the world? If investing in our
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curiosity results in on and the cultivation of life represented in healthy ecosystems. Maybe
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the natural result of cutting off curiosity is homogeny, which is slowly cutting off
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the possibility of life. So our next guest as Shauna Francis. She is
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a keynote speaker and she also facilitates workshops and is a scholar of an ethical
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Leadership and Living. She is the founder and CEO of Consostinate LLC. Shauna
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has been interviewed by more than one hundred other podcasters in the world trying to
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spread her message about exactly what we've just talked about. She wants to cultivate
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our human power into things that will bring us back to some oneness with nature,
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ecosystems, and also help promote maybe even diversity. So why don't we
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welcome Shanna to the to the show, and let's hear a little bit about
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her story and what it is that she wants to do for people. We
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can one Seana, welcome to the show, and you have a fantastic story.
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And just wait, I also remember something else. You have a neual
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diversity, don't you. Yeah, I'm nerd divergent. Yeah I have ADHD.
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Yeah. Hey, I love I love having nerdivergent people on the show.
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It's it makes it that much more fun, right because hey, it's
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like he as a lot of my listeners know, I'm extremely dyslexic, so
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you are also nerd evergente. It just means our brains work, right.
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So, yeah, tell us a little bit about how you got started with
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the keynote speaking and how you came about your message and all. Yeah.
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Absolutely, So, first, thanks for having me. I appreciate being on
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the show. So. I was born into an abusive household and raised inside
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of an evangelical Christian cult, and in those environments you experience extremely unethical,
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very coercive, and controlling leadership if we won't even call it leadership, in
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which your humanity is not honored, you are not respected, and the people
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in positions of power do not have to take accountability, but you always do.
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And in those environments, you know, I realized that I wasn't safe.
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I realized I couldn't show up as my full self. I realized I
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needed to protect myself constantly. And when when you're in a constant state of
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protection, it's really hard to grow into your creativity, into the things that
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empower you into and discover your purpose, discover what you want your purpose to
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be, Discover how you want to change the world or be a part of
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the world, and show up in the world. World it's very stifling,
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right, There's no humanity in it. And so when I left those environments
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at twenty six, I started to ask myself who I wanted to be,
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and how I wanted to show up in the world, and what I wanted
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to believe what actually resonated with me when I actually believed allow myself to sit
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with that. I also, at the same time begin to recognize there was
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reflections of the environments I had grown up in. In the environment, like
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in our society at large, right, there was reflections of that. There
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was instances that I could see all around me, and I was like,
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oh, okay, right, And so that began me leaving and me you
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know, beginning the process of discovering who I am. Also had me asking
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a lot of important questions of like, how do I want to show up
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in the world, how do I want to empower the people around me?
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What is healthy relationship? Because none of those things had been modeled for me.
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Right. Part of child is that you have healthy humans around you providing
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a model for what's possible or healthy realities. I didn't have that, and
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so I had to create that understanding. And I looked for models in books
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and in you know, it looked for incredible organizations and incredible people where I
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could understand leadership from a healthy and ethics standpoint. And that started. Now
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what's become more than a decade worth of learning and study on what is it
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to be an ethical human and what is it to be an ethical leader?
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And ultimately about three years ago, I finally gave myself permission to fully step
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into that. So I had been working with entrepreneurs and business owners, longtime
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business owners all the way, you know, from my early thirties into my
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mid thirties, and in kind of a coaching capacity both you know, individual
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and group coaching. Lots of people are coming to me for advice and so
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on and so forth, and I and I recognized it was valuable, but
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I didn't I didn't know how to monetize it. I didn't know how to
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step into that fully. And you know, it took me some time,
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and I sought out some mentors, and then I was like, Okay,
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this is you know, this is where I think I need to be spending
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my time. This is really important work. Because what I didn't realize as
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I was doing all of this research, all of this learning along the way,
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you know, and distilling it through my particular understanding of the world and
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having grown up in such severe course of environments. Right, so my interpretation
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of these things was very specific, is that other people didn't know these things
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already. I thought I was learning things that other people, in some way,
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shape or form already knew, and maybe I understood them a little bit
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bit differently. But I didn't understand that a lot of people were looking for
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the language that I had also been looking for, that a lot of people
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were also trying to discover how to show up this way, you know,
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how to empower their leadership. They could empower their people so that they could
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drive innovation and profitability. Right, they just didn't have the models. And
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so you know, that kind of broke open three years ago where I stepped
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into that FULLI and I was like, okay, this is what we're doing.
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What we're going to be doing public speaking, consulting, and workshop facilitation.
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And I was developing my workshops, started dispilding this information and giving it
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finite language. I mean, that's the thing. You can know a lot,
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but until you hone that language and you know how to share it with
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people around you, it's powerful for you, but it's difficult to relay it
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to other people. And so I had to spend a lot of time learning
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how to hone the language and share it with people in ways that were really
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impactful. Right, it makes sense. Hang on a second. You know,
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we all we're all seeking for that purpose. But when if you grow
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up an environment that suppresses your growth in only or try I say, it
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suppresses your self power and only empowers someone else. Yeah, then you have
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an an interesting obstacle to get around, shall we say? I don't only
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you can answer how difficult that obstacle was? Sure, Yeah, I mean
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The interesting thing that I recently sat down and was really thinking about this because
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I wrote an article that was specifically asking about confidence and how I gained confidence,
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you know, became who I am today, and I was like,
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oh, that's a really good question. I definitely want to answer that,
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right, And it made me sit down and really think about it. And
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for a long time, I was, you know, growing up in the
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environments that I did, I was forced and required to look for approval outside
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of myself. I was I was always having to seek the approval of God,
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of men who would put themselves in positions of power over me. I
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was always having to seek this approval so I would be seen deemed good and
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worthy. Right, can you hear that background noise? I'm so sorry.
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Okay. So, in finding you know, in grounding myself in who I
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wanted to be and how I wanted to show up in the world, I
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realized that I that I never actually needed anyone else's approval, right, that
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I just needed to sit with my own approval. I need to decide how
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I wanted to show up in the world, and that no one had authority
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over me. I didn't give them right, not as especially not as an
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adult, right as a child. You don't really necessarily have a choice.
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But people only have authority over you that you give them. And so when
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I took back authority over my own life, I gained confidence because confidence comes
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from within, you know. It's eager that constantly seeks exterior approval and constantly
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needs to be reassured. It's confidence that continues to blossom and grow from within
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ourselves. You can only find that when you can sit with and be present
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with who you are and how you want to show up in the world,
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and you're no longer seeking external validation. The only mean we don't meet each
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other, because we absolutely do, and we need to live in community with
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one another. But living in community with one another is not constant approval seeking.
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Those are not the same thing, right. It's like the difference between
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say, a codependent situation versus a independent but I'm leaning on you sort of
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situation. Yeah, I mean you can say, you know, because even
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just a group of two or three people can be community, right, it's
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the difference between codependency and community. Community is based on healthy relationship, and
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in my work I posit that all healthy ethical relationship requires curiosity, respect,
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and accountability to be constantly fostered and consistently invested in in ourselves and in our
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relationships. And so when you do that, then you're fostering healthy community as
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opposed to codependence. Codependence lacks accountability, it lacks respect, it lacks boundaries.
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You know, I'm not a mental health professional, but grew up in
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a codependent relationship with my mother, So you know, I absolutely recognize,
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you know, for myself what showed up there. Well in that culture situation,
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of course, I guess your mother was code dependent, and then whoever
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the leadership was was trying to push codependence upon you, yeah, and put
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you in a situation where you don't necessarily you have a choice, obviously,
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but you don't really, especially as a child, because you have no healthy
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models. You don't know how to not be codependent. You don't know how
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to show up as a healthy person. You don't know how to hold boundaries
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from adults who literally hold your life in their hands. So you develop codependency
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as a means of survival. And you know, codependency hurts both people or
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all of the people who were involved, because it's unhealthy. It's unhealthy,
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and it's a sort of crabs in a barrel situation. Right, in order
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for you to survive, you just kind of both have to stay stuck,
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right, So you must have had at some point you had to have some
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light bulb moment? What did that look like? Sure I had lots of
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them. I had lots of them, but they're kind of gas lit out
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of you. Right, you started to like second guess yourself. It's very
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it's hard to explain unless you've grown up in it. It's really hard to
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explain. But yeah, there was lots of light bulb moments in which I
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tried to assert that I had right to have my thoughts and feelings. I
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had a right to be, you know, to have the questions, to
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bring forth the questions they did. I had a right to point out the
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holes in the information being relayed to me that I needed to be submissive to
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and obedient too, and and so I would, I would assert myself.
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But in those moments, there was so you know, there was so much
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push back, in so much trauma. Pushback would be the nicest way to
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say it. There was so much pain that was incurred on my part to
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put me back in my place right by the people in authority over me that
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I you know, you just stuff it down. You stop sharing with the
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world, You stop telling the world you know what you wish could be or
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what you even observed, because you recognize that it's not safe, right.
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You recognize that you are seeing something that other people also see, but they're
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actively ignoring the harm it's causing them, actively perpetrating harm on purpose. They
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know they're harming me, and so you bringing it to their attention. That's
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like looking a narcissist in the face and telling them they're a narcissist. You
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should never do that, because they find a way to turn it back on
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you and make you the bad guy. Right. At some point, you
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realize I'm being harmed by using my voice. It's being turned on me,
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it's being manipulated, and I know that's not my voice, and I know
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that's not what I meant, but that's what that's what you're keeping told you
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meant, right, And so you at some point just like recede into yourself.
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So there was these light bulb moments all along the way, probably starting
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when I was ten or eleven twelve as the oldest, but eventually right,
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eventually I was old enough and I was. My father left and then I
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was able to leave. So I left at twenty six. My father like
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literally just abandoned the family and ransacked our house with other people from the church.
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By the way, strange men ransacked our house with him. And so,
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you know, I left at twenty six and then was able to you
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know, actually show up in the world or figure out try to figure out
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how to show up in the world as myself. So who is Shanna?
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So I'm a deeply curious person. I'm someone who wants to spend the rest
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of my life questioning what I know and what I believe, expanding my perspectives,
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connecting with the world and the people around me. I'm somebody who wants
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to continue to share what I've learned with people who want to understand it.
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You know, I'm somebody who insists on using my voice to speak truth to
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power. I'm someone who insists that the people who are part of my life
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be deeply invested in curiosity, respect, and accountability. It's a really good
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way of telling whether or not you're safe with someone, specifically long term.
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Right then you really find out if you're safe with someone when there's a moment
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that they need to take accountability for and if they do so without prompting,
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and they do so. And by the way, accountability is not an apology,
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and it's not punishment. It is yeah, it's taking responsibility for the
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impact of our actions on the people and the lives that have been impacted,
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and then learning more and doing better. So accountability is deeply tied to curiosity.
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So it's in those moments that you discover that, right, So that's
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who I am. I'm somebody who will spend the rest of my life learning
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and know that I still won't know a fraction of what there is to know
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in the world, and sharing the learning with people around me, as as
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they asked me to, really, what are some of the biggest things that
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you have learned? I think all of our journeys are really very personal journeys,
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right like your journey in owning a business, your journey in running a
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business, your journey in whatever it is in your public life is a direct
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reflection of your journey in your personal life. So one of the biggest things
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I learned was that I could trust myself and that my making a mistake or
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making a bad decision was not a reflection that I couldn't trust myself. It
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just meant I had more learning to do because failure, our mistakes are not
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yes they are, they're harmful, but they become excessively more harmful and we
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become somebody who is more committed to to protecting ourselves, whether showing up in
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a real relationship with the people around us when we deflect our responsibility, you
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know, and accountability. So yeah, actually that's a pretty it's a pretty
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large shrink of learning. And uh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
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I think I think there's some some people, some life coaches out there that
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they take that and they and they turn it into a t year program.
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Yeah. I mean, you know, we all learn, we all learn
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at our own pace, and I think at which somebody is able to really
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connect with somebody with something. It's also like in finding a language that connects
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with the client. You know, coaching is an aspect of my work.
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It's not the main focus of my work. What is an aspect of my
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work, But ultimately the process of coaching is like finding the lifelanguage that specifically
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connects to the person or persons you're talking to. And sometimes that takes a
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while, you know, and it also then takes that person time to distill
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that and figure out how to apply it to their own life and practice applying
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it to their own life consistently. So you know, it could take some
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It's definitely not going to take you two minutes, definitely not going to take
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you two days to make that change. But you know, it could take
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you two months, six months, two years. It could take the rest
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of your life just to pend you know. Well, that's the interesting part
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about life and learning is we have our lifetime to live and learn, right,
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So there's no rush, Right, there's no rush. You know.
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It's not about perfection, but it is about learning more and doing better consistently.
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Right, It's about consistent action, consistently leaning into our humanity. Yeah,
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well, I was gonna say, also, is it doesn't take two
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minutes to take the first step. It's only takes a couple of milliseconds to
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take the first step towards it. Yeah. Yeah, but that's a vulnerability,
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and that's something that is that has been weaponized against some people. And
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so for some people, they need to go to therapy before they can even
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begin that first step because they have to learn how to trust themselves. And
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learn how to surround themselves with people they can also trust so they can take
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that step. You know, yes, I understand that. But in that
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and of itself, if we if we see on the philosophical route, that
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of itself is a step. Oh, it absolutely is to important to right.
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Yeah, no, that is a step that becomes the first step is
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the getting recognized, the help, the support, and we all need help
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and support, we all need to function of community. But yes, that
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is absolutely because you could you could have not taken that step, and you
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could have stayed in whatever that religious cult. I know, sometimes you call
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it cult, sometimes you call the church. Yes, uh, but just
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for my own definition, the church to me is a community, not an
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entrapment. Yeah. I think community is something that's healthy where all people are
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honored and empowered and respected. It becomes a cult when you remove it starts
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to slip into cultiness, when you stop investing in healthy and ethical relationship,
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when respect is only reserved for those impositions of power, and where accountability is
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only reserved for those people who have no power. Yeah right, yeah,
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yeah, I mean there's there's so much for us to learn out there,
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and you seem like a really good teacher. I help, so I work
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on it all the time. I mean sometimes I'm like, because my nervous,
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spicy brain gets ahead of itself sometimes, So I've had to spend so
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much time just practicing honing the language in a way that keeps my brain engaged
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and keeps my brain on track. If my brain loves so like pull it
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threads and bring them together. And then and then sometimes the main message gets
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lost and I'm like, hold on, we deviated too many times. Let's
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get back on track, right. So you know, I spend a lot
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of time rehearsing my workshops and my keynotes. My keynotes are all written out
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because my nerves, spicy brain. If I just tried to like go off
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the cuff, like some speakers have like a like a whole bunch of stories
24:47
if they've memorized these little like versions of stories that are you know, anywhere
24:52
thirty seconds to a couple of minutes long, right, and they'll put them
24:53
together. I can't do that. My speeches are all written out. They're
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all They're all something that I end up memorizing or having to use a teleprompter
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to go through because otherwise I would, you know, an hour worth of
25:04
me talking and no one asking me any questions and helping getting me back on
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track. I wouldn't Probably, it wouldn't be a disaster, but but after
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a while I'd be exhausted just trying to keep myself on tray. I totally
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totally understand that even Okay, okay, let's pull the curtain back behind it,
25:23
behind the show. I have notes out for you on the screen somewhere
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right. Good. I mean, you got it. I mean that's the
25:33
thing sometimes also like helps you be present, you know what I mean,
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I'm not worried about what you need to say, and you have those it
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helps you to be present and can truly connect with the people. Like one
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of my favorite things about delivering my kino or being giving a workshop or anything
25:51
like that is that to me, it's it's it's like me and every single
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individual in that room. I'm talking to every single person, just me and
26:00
them, right, it becomes this really personal thing. I am not the
26:03
person who's afraid to look people in the eyes. I'm the person who's actively
26:07
looking for the people who are looking at me back in the eyes. Right.
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So I love connecting with the audience. I love those moments of like,
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is this resonating right? So that I can learn? If I'm teaching
26:18
people well, because that's where I find out, I'm like, are they
26:22
not in along? Did they seem to be processing right? So that I
26:25
can I can hone my skills as a teacher, because you know, we're
26:29
always learning, We're always we can always do better. Yeah, the learning
26:33
doesn't stop it at the twelfth grade or something now, or even out of
26:41
college, or even after your master's or even after a PhD. Like you
26:45
know, just staying curious and continuing to learn. It's such a powerful thing.
26:48
So what do you think of a statement that I hope today I stop
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learning? Is today that I actually stop breathing? Oh for sure that will
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be true for me, That will be I mean, I think I will
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learn right up to the very second I stop breathing. Yeah, I mean
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that's the thing is. That's the thing is I like, I will I
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will be learning as the lights go out, you know, I I yeah,
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because to me, that's to me, that's how we connect to our
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humanity. Curiosity is deeply connected to our humanity. Like curiosity is how we
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learn. Learning is how we grow, how we expand how we learn,
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how we are interconnected with every living thing around us. We and those living
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things around us work as mirrors, reflecting back to us possibilities and understandings of
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ourselves, and so on and so forth. I mean, curiosity is deeply
27:45
connected to hope. It's connected to joy. I mean there's studies on the
27:49
fact that how connected to curiosity hope is. Like, you know, it's
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it's for me, it is what my It's where my humanity is found.
28:00
Me being curious about the world around me, me wanting to connect with the
28:03
people and the lives around me and the living world around me. Like,
28:07
that's where I find my humanity over and over again. So for sure I
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will be I will be learning for the rest of my life. Oh yeah,
28:17
it's I'm just thinking to myself. That's that's where it is. That's
28:21
where the life actually is. Yeah yeah, no, Wait, what do
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you think makes our world beautiful? It's a really good question. No one's
28:37
ever asking that before. When I look around and I watch people, When
28:52
I when I watch people interact with people or the living world around me,
28:56
and I and I watch the way that we learn from each other and the
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way we gain perspective and the way we fall in love with each other because
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of what we learn about one another, and we find out the ways that
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we align in the world or connect on the ways we want to show up
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in the world. To me, that's tremendously beautiful. There's something so magical
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about that, about connecting with one another, about finding true relationship with one
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another. Yeah, that's it. I think that's Oh. Oh did we
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freeze up? Can you still hear me? Oh? I can't. Okay,
29:48
I thought we've we Well, your your picture froze So I'll edit this
29:55
this piece a little bit. Yeah. Oh and fuzzy Nope, nope,
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as it went fuzzy. Crap, hang on, I'm gonna log back and
30:25
log out and log back in again because I went fuzzy on my end.
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Oh oh, there you go. Now you're moving slowly hope. Yeah,
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you can keep doing that. H m hm oh yeah, okay, mm
33:27
hmm, okay, there we go. Like I think, I think yours
33:44
crushed on your end. And then my internet like I don't know if my
33:47
internet it said my internet's a little unstable, and I was like, oh
33:50
boy, you can't have problems on both end. Yeah, I think we
33:54
had problems on both ends, so so I just don't think did record again?
34:01
Yeah, we're going to start to record over again from here, all
34:09
right, recording in progress? All right? So okay, yeah, next
34:22
question and we'll start it now. Okay, how do you want to cause
34:30
beauty in our world? How do you want to want to affect people and
34:36
in that positive way? Oh? No, can you hear me now?
35:02
I hear you? Oh, and I am certain to think you hear me.
35:20
I hear you? Now? What is going on? I hear Are
35:24
you saying something's going on? Okay? Wait, I could hear you now?
35:37
Can you hear me now? Yes, I hear you. All right,
35:44
one of our internets are being a band in the butt. Okay,
35:47
So how do I want to cause beauty in the world? Yes, I
35:51
don't know about most people, but no one ever sat me down and said,
35:55
this is how you show up in relationship with people around you. This
35:59
is how you build healthy relationship, This is how you show up consistently.
36:05
No one taught me that. No one even showed me that. I had
36:07
to discover it for myself. And then as I discovered it for myself,
36:12
I realized that so many people were trying to discover some aspect of that for
36:15
themselves. And there's so much beauty in relationship. There's so much beauty in
36:21
our connection to one another and knowing how to show up in a way that
36:25
empowers yourself and empowers the people around you. Because showing up in the world
36:30
as curious connects us to hope and joy, It connects us to understanding the
36:34
world around us. But it has to balance out by respect. That's when
36:37
the people around us can begin to trust us, but they can't. There's
36:42
a real deepening of a relationship, and real trust shows up when accountability shows
36:46
up. And again, I don't know about anybody who's listening or anybody else,
36:51
but when I know I've done something that might have harmed someone, that
36:58
might have taken up too much space, in too much space in the conversation,
37:01
right, you know, in some way been harmful to them. Maybe
37:07
that wasn't my intention, but I noticed that it bothered them. Or I
37:10
said something and I didn't really mean it the way that it came out,
37:14
or whatever it is, right, Or if I did something that actually did
37:15
harm someone, I knew it harmed them right in the minute, in the
37:19
moment when I've carried that around and I haven't invested in accountability, I haven't
37:24
been willing to be uncomfortable enough and vulnerable enough to take accountability. That stays
37:30
with me. I carry it around with me, whether we do consciously or
37:34
unconsciously. Then we're being careful about how we approach the person, or being
37:37
careful about what we say and don't say. We're protecting ourselves and at the
37:43
same time separating ourselves from that person. It puts it says to lay brick,
37:50
you know, the bricks for a wall between us and that person in
37:52
real relationship with them, and we can feel it, and so can that
37:57
and so bringing for me, empowering people to understand and have the language for
38:02
what real relationship is is an extremely powerful thing and it brings so much beauty
38:08
into our lives. So that's how That's how I want to and that's how
38:13
I That's what I hope the impact of my work already is. Wow,
38:21
you you truly believe in an amazing world. Yes, I know that by
38:28
us really understanding what relationship is and investing in it, we will change the
38:30
world. We will change the world. It's just going to take us time
38:36
to work through the messiness of actually showing up as the people we need to
38:40
and want to. Yeah. I usually don't ask these questions on this particular
38:47
show, but I'm going to ask this aview. Okay, what do you
38:51
think of what is going on right now in the world in our country?
39:00
Why? What? What? Jeez? Because uh, why don't we do
39:06
school with the world, Because of course I'm broadcasting you from from Canada and
39:13
you're in the United States. Yes, while we're brother brother brother in sister
39:20
countries. Yeah. Yeah, So what I see going on in the world
39:28
is a lot of harm being caused a lot of people in order to continue
39:43
producing and to continue making money, you know, for certain people and organizations
39:51
to keep being able to sell their products, because at the end of the
39:57
day, it seems to all be driven by money, by the accumulation of
40:01
wealth, whether it's by a government or an organization or whatever it is.
40:10
I don't see people in positions of power being truly invested in accountability. I
40:19
don't see them even caring to know or sit with or embody the impact of
40:24
their actions. I see tremendous, horrifying examples of dehumanization harm. I see
40:38
things that cause me a tremendous amount of pain to see, let alone knowing
40:45
or trying to fathom the amount of pain that the people who are experiencing them
40:49
are going through. And I know that much of it is happening with my
40:55
tax dollars, with my support through corporations because of the products I'm buying from
41:02
different corporations, and I do my very best to consume as ethically as possible.
41:09
But there doesn't seem to be anyway to truly exist in our world in
41:15
a thoroughly ethical way. To know that none of your money is going to
41:20
harm someone, to know that everybody in the company is making ethical wages.
41:25
There's just so there's just so few examples of that, And that's the horrifying
41:32
part. It's really it's really hard to exist in this world right now and
41:40
be connected to your humanity. I understand why people seek to disconnect and numb
41:46
themselves because the reality of our world is one that feels so daunting, and
41:53
there's so much pain in it for us and so many other people people are
42:00
in pain in this world that are not And so when I get to that
42:06
place where I'm like, this just feels so overwhelming, How in the world
42:09
do we make change, How in the world do we stop this pain?
42:13
How in the world do we make a world in which people are honored simply
42:17
because they exist and we don't decide that we get an opinion, and how
42:22
they show up in the world as long as they're not harming other people?
42:27
How do we do that? And that's why I come back to my work,
42:30
is that the more we understand what real relationship is and what it requires
42:34
of us, the most revolutionary thing we can do is be invested in true
42:39
relationship with ourselves and the people around us. Build community because community and hierarchy
42:45
and systems of oppression are in direct opposition. But in order to form true,
42:51
powerful community, we have to understand what relationship is. First. You
42:54
can't skip the steps. You can't just think, okay, here, I'm
42:59
here in community, No, because you don't even know how to be in
43:02
You've got to do the work. You've got to be invested in curiosity,
43:07
respect, and accountability. People ask me, you know, as we form
43:09
community, what happens when you know people come into that community in order to
43:15
disrupt, in order to be agitators. They're not always so obvious and I'm
43:19
like, but I think they are when you are deeply and truly invested in
43:24
curiosity, respect and accountability, and you engage with people in the world that
43:29
way and you not require but but that's your boundary that people to engage with
43:35
you have to engage from that place. It's going to become really obvious who
43:42
isn't engaged in that way where they're they're manipulating information rather than honoring how the
43:50
intentions of you know what I mean, Like, it starts to become really
43:53
obvious, and then we've got to trust our intuition, our God. Right.
43:58
So, I I'm horrified by the things I see. I'm horrified by
44:01
the pain, horrified by knowing that child slave labor exists all over the world,
44:07
including our own country and including in America. You know, I'm horrified
44:14
by it all. And I know that I can only do what I can
44:16
do. I can't change the world, but I could change the world if
44:21
I could change myself. And so that's what I'm committed to. Right.
44:29
Wow, Wow, that is extremely powerful what you just said. Okay,
44:35
so we're going to leave it at that, and I'm going to ask you
44:37
to tell everybody the best way is to get a hold of you and work
44:42
with you, because I think that that working with people like you is going
44:47
to bring that change about, so I hope. So yeah, the best
44:53
way to engage with me is through either through my website or you can email
44:58
me blame me who responds It's Shana s h A n A at consonate dot
45:06
world c O N C I N n A t E dot World. I'm
45:10
sure my website will also be tagged in the show notes so that you can
45:14
find my contact information through the website. Those are the best ways to engage
45:20
with me. Also, you can subscribe to my email lists on my website
45:22
that goes out once a week. And the what I love about that is
45:25
that you can also reply directly to that and ends up writing my inbox.
45:32
So yeah, definitely reach out. Those are those are the best and easiest
45:37
ways. Thank you for joining us. It has been wonderful having you and
45:40
I hope to have you back again. We're in your near future. Yeah,
45:45
absolutely just love to come back. Thanks for having me, all right,
45:49
all right, thank you for everybody for listening today. Please find that
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