Latest / Why Humans Lie / She Hid Her Life in a River - Which Twin Was Missing?
Transcript
- 0:03Speaker 1: At six fifteen on a January morning, a woman running
- 0:07Speaker 1: the Caldwell Bend Trail spotted something on the levee path
- 0:10Speaker 1: near the Tippecanoe River boat launch. A rust orange accordion folder,
- 0:15Speaker 1: two inches thick, standing upright on fresh snow dry, not
- 0:20Speaker 1: a flake on it three inches had fallen and stopped
- 0:23Speaker 1: at roughly four in the morning. Someone had placed that
- 0:26Speaker 1: folder in sub zero cold in the dark after the
- 0:30Speaker 1: snow stopped falling and walked away. Inside were forty one documents,
- 0:36Speaker 1: two life insurance policies, a quit claim deed transferring a
- 0:40Speaker 1: house on Orchard Flat Road to a woman named April Andersen,
- 0:44Speaker 1: a marriage certificate, a handwritten will amendment. The man named
- 0:48Speaker 1: on every page was still alive, but only just. This
- 0:52Speaker 1: is the story of how one person constructed an alternate
- 0:56Speaker 1: version of another person's life document by document, and how
- 1:00Speaker 1: a rust orange folder left in the snow began to
- 1:03Speaker 1: unravel all of it. Dwayne Lewis was forty four years
- 1:08Speaker 1: old the february he met April Andersen had a birthday
- 1:11Speaker 1: party for his friend Greg Paulson. He was divorced. He
- 1:15Speaker 1: owned a used car lot and a house on Orchard
- 1:18Speaker 1: Flat Road, that his family had passed down to him
- 1:21Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies. His daughter, Renee was twenty two
- 1:26Speaker 1: and living in Spokane, the same city where his ex wife,
- 1:29Speaker 1: Peggy Holt had relocated eight years before. By most measures,
- 1:34Speaker 1: Dwayne's life had a visible shape, regular, manageable his own.
- 1:39Speaker 1: He had a Tuesday routine every week without exception for
- 1:43Speaker 1: four years. He arrived at Carver's family restaurant at the
- 1:47Speaker 1: same time, booth in the back Denver Omelet Coffee. Diane,
- 1:52Speaker 1: his waitress of eleven years, knew his order before he
- 1:55Speaker 1: sat down. That routine was not a small thing. It
- 1:59Speaker 1: was the kind of steadiness a man builds after a
- 2:02Speaker 1: hard chapter closes, something he returns to because it holds.
- 2:06Speaker 1: April Anderson was forty one, dark hair. She had driven
- 2:10Speaker 1: ninety miles from Vincennes's to be at that birthday party.
- 2:14Speaker 1: She was positioned at the gathering, according to accounts from
- 2:17Speaker 1: those present, as someone who simply knew people Greg knew.
- 2:21Speaker 1: Within weeks of that Saturday in February, she was calling
- 2:25Speaker 1: Duyane frequently, driving the ninety miles unannounced. The calls came often,
- 2:32Speaker 1: the visits came often. Dwane by the accounts of people
- 2:36Speaker 1: close to him found her attention startling and then flattering,
- 2:41Speaker 1: and then natural. By March, he had rearranged his tuesdays
- 2:45Speaker 1: around her schedule. In May, April told him she had
- 2:50Speaker 1: been evicted from her vincenne's apartment. Her landlord, Frank Odell,
- 2:54Speaker 1: would later confirm she had given voluntary notice six weeks
- 2:58Speaker 1: before the eviction. Sheld described the drafts were not identical
- 3:03Speaker 1: to the story she told, but Dwayne did not know that.
- 3:06Speaker 1: He invited her to move into the house on Orchard
- 3:09Speaker 1: Flat Road. She moved in on May twenty eighth. What
- 3:13Speaker 1: followed over the next fourteen months is documented in bank records,
- 3:17Speaker 1: cell tower data, a notaries, signed statement, and the contents
- 3:21Speaker 1: of a folder that would turn up on a frozen
- 3:23Speaker 1: levee path long after the plan it represented was already
- 3:27Speaker 1: in motion. Sixty three thousand dollars moved in incremental transfers
- 3:32Speaker 1: from Duane's business account. A marriage certificate was dated roughly
- 3:36Speaker 1: eleven months before anyone outside that house knew a marriage
- 3:40Speaker 1: had taken place, and on one specific Tuesday in October,
- 3:44Speaker 1: Dwayne Lewis did not show up at Carver's family restaurant
- 3:47Speaker 1: for the first time in four years. Diane held his
- 3:51Speaker 1: booth forty five minutes past seven forty. She saved the
- 3:54Speaker 1: Denver omelet until eight thirty, then she ate it herself.
- 3:59Speaker 1: That Tuesday morning, at an east side coffee shop across town,
- 4:04Speaker 1: a mobile notary named Bev Stanhope was sitting across from
- 4:08Speaker 1: Duayane Lewis and April Anderson. Stanhope notarized forty one documents
- 4:13Speaker 1: in a single sitting. She later confirmed that Dwyane seemed
- 4:17Speaker 1: distracted during the signing. He asked twice what he was signing.
- 4:21Speaker 1: Stanhope confirmed the documents, she stamped them, she left. What
- 4:27Speaker 1: she did not know, and what a forensic review of
- 4:30Speaker 1: the quit claim deed metadata would later establish, was that
- 4:34Speaker 1: the document she notarized that morning was not the document
- 4:38Speaker 1: filed afterward. The finalized version of the quit claim deed
- 4:42Speaker 1: was created on a different computer two days after the notarization.
- 4:46Speaker 1: The draft Duane saw and the document that entered the
- 4:50Speaker 1: record were not the same. Dwayne Lewis had signed something
- 4:54Speaker 1: he just had not signed that the document substitution was
- 4:58Speaker 1: not the only thing that didn't match. Dwayne's phone records
- 5:02Speaker 1: from the fourteen months prior showed a pattern not of surveillance,
- 5:07Speaker 1: exactly of management. April called him every morning before seven.
- 5:11Speaker 1: She drove the ninety miles from Vincenne's unannounced, on at
- 5:15Speaker 1: least six documented occasions. Friends who reached out to Dwayne
- 5:19Speaker 1: during that period later described the same experience. He would
- 5:23Speaker 1: pick up, sound fine for a minute, then say April
- 5:26Speaker 1: was there and hang up. The calls got shorter, then
- 5:30Speaker 1: they stopped coming from his end altogether. His daughter Renee
- 5:33Speaker 1: noticed it first on the Sunday calls. Dwayne had always
- 5:37Speaker 1: called her on Sunday evenings reliably since the divorce. After
- 5:42Speaker 1: April moved in on May twenty eighth, the calls became shorter,
- 5:46Speaker 1: Then they became monthly. Then Renee was the one calling.
- 5:52Speaker 1: On one of those calls, in late December, Dwayne told
- 5:55Speaker 1: her something that didn't land as alarming until she replayed
- 5:59Speaker 1: it later. He said he'd changed his will. He said
- 6:02Speaker 1: he wasn't sure why. Renee hired a private investigator named
- 6:06Speaker 1: Tod Tucker within the week. Tucker was licensed methodical and
- 6:11Speaker 1: had worked financial fraud cases before he started with the lease.
- 6:16Speaker 1: April had told Dwayne she'd been evicted from her Vincenne's
- 6:19Speaker 1: apartment that she had nowhere to go, that the timing
- 6:22Speaker 1: was not her fault. Tucker pulled the rental records. Frank Odell,
- 6:27Speaker 1: April's landlord, confirmed that April had given voluntary notice six
- 6:32Speaker 1: weeks before the date she described as an eviction. The
- 6:35Speaker 1: apartment had been listed for sale, then delisted. April had
- 6:39Speaker 1: not been pushed out. She had walked out on a
- 6:42Speaker 1: schedule toward a destination she had already arranged. That was
- 6:47Speaker 1: the first thread. Tucker pulled the second one when he
- 6:50Speaker 1: examined the property documents. The quit claim deed transferring Dwayne's
- 6:54Speaker 1: house on Orchard Flat Road into April's name carried a
- 6:58Speaker 1: notorization stamp from BEV Stanhope, a mobile notary. Stanhope confirmed
- 7:04Speaker 1: she had notarized documents that October Tuesday morning at a
- 7:08Speaker 1: coffee shop on the east side of town. She confirmed
- 7:12Speaker 1: Dwayne was present. She confirmed he asked twice what he
- 7:15Speaker 1: was signing, But when Tucker requested the metadata from the
- 7:19Speaker 1: deed's digital file, the record showed a creation day two
- 7:22Speaker 1: days after Stanhope's stamp. The document Stanhope had notarized was
- 7:27Speaker 1: a draft. The version in the property record had been
- 7:31Speaker 1: created on a different computer. After the fact Dwayne's signature
- 7:34Speaker 1: was on a document he had never read. Tucker brought
- 7:37Speaker 1: his findings to the Harmon County Sheriff's Department. He was
- 7:41Speaker 1: not the only one moving toward the same address. On
- 7:44Speaker 1: the morning of January twenty third, a runner named Sherry
- 7:48Speaker 1: Thorpe left for her usual route along the Tippecanoe River
- 7:52Speaker 1: levee just after six Three inches of snow had fallen
- 7:56Speaker 1: between two in the morning and roughly four The path
- 8:00Speaker 1: was fresh and unbroken when Sherry reached the boat launch signpost.
- 8:04Speaker 1: Sitting upright against it was a rust orange accordion folder,
- 8:08Speaker 1: two inches thick, elastic closure, dry, not damp, not frosted,
- 8:14Speaker 1: not dusted with any of the snow that had fallen
- 8:17Speaker 1: in the hours before. Someone had placed it there. After
- 8:20Speaker 1: the snow stopped, Sherry reported it. Deputies responded. They opened
- 8:25Speaker 1: the folder. Inside thirty one index tabs, forty one documents,
- 8:32Speaker 1: two life insurance policies naming April Andersen as beneficiary, a
- 8:37Speaker 1: quit claim deed for the house on Orchard Flat Road,
- 8:41Speaker 1: the handwritten amendment to Dwayne's will, and a marriage certificate
- 8:45Speaker 1: dated roughly eleven months before that morning. A marriage that
- 8:49Speaker 1: as far as Duane's daughter, his ex wife, his neighbor's
- 8:53Speaker 1: and every person in his life outside that house knew
- 8:56Speaker 1: had never happened. The folder was wiped clean. No finger
- 9:00Speaker 1: prints on the exterior surface. Dwayne's prince appeared on documents inside,
- 9:05Speaker 1: April's prince did not appear anywhere. Nine days before the
- 9:09Speaker 1: folder appeared on the levee, Pete Kerran heard something outside
- 9:13Speaker 1: his house at midnight. The temperature was twenty degrees. He
- 9:17Speaker 1: opened his front door and found his neighbor, Duaye Lewis,
- 9:21Speaker 1: sitting on his own porch steps, disoriented and unable to
- 9:26Speaker 1: explain how he'd gotten there. Pete drove him to the
- 9:29Speaker 1: emergency room. Doctor Marcus Webb examined Dwayne and ordered blood work.
- 9:35Speaker 1: The results documented clonazepam in Dwayne's system. Dwayne had no
- 9:40Speaker 1: prescription for clonazepam. He had no history with it. Doctor
- 9:45Speaker 1: Webb recorded the incident as a possible accidental mixing and
- 9:49Speaker 1: discharged Dwayne The same evening, April Anderson drove him home.
- 9:53Speaker 1: No police report was filed. The medical record existed. What
- 9:57Speaker 1: it described was a man who could not account for
- 10:00Speaker 1: four hours of his own evening with a sedative compound
- 10:03Speaker 1: in his blood that he had not knowingly taken. There
- 10:07Speaker 1: is something clarifying about reading that sequence in order, not
- 10:11Speaker 1: what it felt like to Duane, but what it looked
- 10:14Speaker 1: like from the outside. A man whose routine had been
- 10:17Speaker 1: restructured around another person's schedule, whose financial accounts had been
- 10:21Speaker 1: drawn down by sixty three thousand dollars in incremental transfers
- 10:25Speaker 1: over fourteen months, who had signed documents he did not
- 10:29Speaker 1: understand in a coffee shop while his regular waitress held
- 10:32Speaker 1: his breakfast booth past seven forty in the morning and
- 10:35Speaker 1: his Denver omelet until eight thirty. A man who woke
- 10:38Speaker 1: up on porch steps in the cold, with no memory
- 10:41Speaker 1: and a sedative in his blood, and then nine days
- 10:45Speaker 1: later a folder appeared on the snow containing every legal
- 10:48Speaker 1: instrument needed to transfer his house, his estate, and the
- 10:52Speaker 1: value of his life to some one else. Todd Tucker
- 10:56Speaker 1: had been watching the financial transfers. He had the lease records,
- 11:00Speaker 1: he had the deed metadata. He brought everything to the
- 11:03Speaker 1: Harmon County Sheriff's Department at roughly the same time Sherry
- 11:07Speaker 1: Thorpe was reporting what she found at the boat launch.
- 11:10Speaker 1: The investigation converged on January twenty ninth April Andersen was
- 11:15Speaker 1: arrested that day. The folder is where every theory begins
- 11:20Speaker 1: and where most of them collapse. Picture the levee path
- 11:23Speaker 1: at four in the morning in January, twenty degrees, fresh
- 11:28Speaker 1: snow on the ground. Some one carries a rust orange
- 11:31Speaker 1: accordion folder down to the Tippecanoe River boat launch and
- 11:35Speaker 1: sets it upright against a sign post in a spot
- 11:38Speaker 1: where runners pass every morning. They do not drop it,
- 11:42Speaker 1: They do not slide it under a bench or leave
- 11:45Speaker 1: it face down. They set it upright, spine out so
- 11:49Speaker 1: it will be found quickly. Then they leave and the
- 11:52Speaker 1: snow they walked in on is covered by nothing, because
- 11:56Speaker 1: the snowfall has already stopped. That is not someone to
- 11:59Speaker 1: say scarring evidence. The placement is too deliberate for that.
- 12:04Speaker 1: One reading of the folder is that it was intended
- 12:07Speaker 1: as proof of completion. The documents inside represent a finished
- 12:12Speaker 1: legal architecture, a marriage, a will, amendment to insurance policies,
- 12:17Speaker 1: a property transfer. Someone may have placed that folder where
- 12:20Speaker 1: it would be found by investigators or by the right person,
- 12:24Speaker 1: as a statement that the plan was done. Duane had
- 12:27Speaker 1: already been in the emergency room nine days earlier. If
- 12:30Speaker 1: the folder was meant to surface after something happened to him,
- 12:34Speaker 1: finding it before that event would have been a catastrophic miscalculation.
- 12:38Speaker 1: But the folder surfaces and Duayanne is still alive, which
- 12:42Speaker 1: means either the timing failed or the folder was never
- 12:46Speaker 1: meant to work the way that reading suggests. Another reading,
- 12:49Speaker 1: more unsettling, starts with the January fourteenth Er visit. A
- 12:54Speaker 1: man turns up sedated on his porch steps an er
- 12:57Speaker 1: physician documents clonazepam. The record exists. If that record prompted
- 13:03Speaker 1: a closer look, if some one understood that medical attention
- 13:07Speaker 1: had now created a paper trail pointing toward a house
- 13:10Speaker 1: on Orchard Flat Road. The folder may not have been
- 13:13Speaker 1: planted as evidence of success. It may have been moved,
- 13:17Speaker 1: relocated from somewhere. It could be searched somewhere. It could
- 13:21Speaker 1: be found in the wrong context, to a public space
- 13:24Speaker 1: where its origin would be ambiguous. Todd Tucker called this
- 13:28Speaker 1: his working theory. He acknowledged he did not know which
- 13:31Speaker 1: reading was correct. April Andersen was arrested six days after
- 13:36Speaker 1: the folder was found. She denied everything. She never explained
- 13:40Speaker 1: the folder At trial in November, a woman named Joel
- 13:44Speaker 1: Faber testified. Joel was fifty three from Evansville. She had
- 13:49Speaker 1: attended a preliminary hearing in March after reading about the
- 13:52Speaker 1: case and recognizing something in the description of the defendant.
- 13:56Speaker 1: Seven years earlier, Joel had been engaged. She had hosted
- 14:01Speaker 1: an engagement dinner. One of the guests that evening had
- 14:04Speaker 1: been introduced to her as a business partner and frequent
- 14:07Speaker 1: house guest of a man named Daniel marsh. The guest's name,
- 14:11Speaker 1: as Joel remembered, it was not April Andersen, but the
- 14:15Speaker 1: woman at that dinner and the woman in the court
- 14:17Speaker 1: room were the same person. Joel had a photograph from
- 14:21Speaker 1: that dinner. It was admitted into evidence. The suppression motion denied.
- 14:26Speaker 1: The photograph confirmed April Andersen had been in a room
- 14:30Speaker 1: like this before. Different name, different city, different man. The
- 14:35Speaker 1: folder had never pointed only at Dwayne Lewis. It pointed
- 14:39Speaker 1: at a pattern. April was convicted on all counts. She
- 14:44Speaker 1: was sentenced to eleven years. Dwayne Lewis recovered after the separation.
- 14:49Speaker 1: He was alive at the time of trial. He did
- 14:52Speaker 1: not testify publicly about what he remembered from that October Tuesday,
- 14:57Speaker 1: or from the night Pete Curran found him on the
- 15:00Speaker 1: steps some things from that period. Investigators noted he could
- 15:04Speaker 1: not fully reconstruct. A man does not always know when
- 15:08Speaker 1: his reality is being rewritten. He only knows that something
- 15:13Speaker 1: feels wrong too late, after the documents are already signed
- 15:17Speaker 1: and the folder is already somewhere. He will never find it.
- 15:21Speaker 1: The photograph was the turning point no one had anticipated.
- 15:25Speaker 1: Joelle Faber had not come forward because investigators found her.
- 15:29Speaker 1: She had come forward because she recognized something in the
- 15:33Speaker 1: case description that the investigators did not yet know to
- 15:36Speaker 1: look for. A different name, a different city, a different man,
- 15:41Speaker 1: the same woman. That single fact, confirmed by a photograph,
- 15:45Speaker 1: admitted into evidence after a suppression motion was denied, reframed
- 15:50Speaker 1: every document in the accordion folder, the quick claim deed,
- 15:54Speaker 1: the life insurance policies, the handwritten will amendment, the marriage
- 15:58Speaker 1: certificate dated back eleven months. These were not the improvised
- 16:03Speaker 1: steps of someone acting out of desperation. They were familiar
- 16:06Speaker 1: moves practiced Once the jury agreed. April Anderson was convicted
- 16:11Speaker 1: on all counts in November of the following year. She
- 16:15Speaker 1: was sentenced to eleven years, she denied everything throughout the proceedings.
- 16:20Speaker 1: She never explained the folder. She never explained why her
- 16:24Speaker 1: fingerprints were absent from its surface while Duane's prince remained
- 16:29Speaker 1: on the documents inside. She never explained the clonazepan that
- 16:33Speaker 1: appeared in Duane's blood work. On the Knight Pete Curran
- 16:36Speaker 1: found him on the porch steps in twenty degree cold, disoriented,
- 16:41Speaker 1: without a prescription that matched. She never explained why the
- 16:44Speaker 1: quit claim deeds metadata showed it had been created on
- 16:48Speaker 1: a different computer two days after bev Stanhope had notarized
- 16:52Speaker 1: what she believed was the final version. April said nothing,
- 16:55Speaker 1: and the silence in this case did not help her.
- 16:59Speaker 1: The folder's lee Leagal origin remained unresolved. No finger prints
- 17:03Speaker 1: connected it to April Andersen. Todd Tucker's working theory that
- 17:09Speaker 1: she placed it at the Tippecanoe River levee, either to
- 17:12Speaker 1: establish apparent consent or because the January fourteenth er visit
- 17:17Speaker 1: had frightened her, was never confirmed in court. The folder surfaced,
- 17:22Speaker 1: it was dry, three inches of snow had fallen and
- 17:25Speaker 1: stopped at roughly four in the morning. Someone had stood
- 17:29Speaker 1: at that boat launch in sub zero cold and set
- 17:32Speaker 1: it upright against the sign post. The law could not
- 17:35Speaker 1: say who. What the law could say and did was this.
- 17:39Speaker 1: Sixty three thousand dollars had moved out of Duane's business
- 17:42Speaker 1: account in incremental transfers over fourteen months. His home on
- 17:46Speaker 1: Orchard Flat Road, the one he had inherited in the
- 17:50Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, the one his daughter Renee had grown up visiting,
- 17:54Speaker 1: had been transferred out of his name via a document
- 17:57Speaker 1: he had signed without fully understanding. A mobile notary had
- 18:01Speaker 1: watched him ask twice what he was signing. He had
- 18:04Speaker 1: missed his Tuesday routine at Carver's Family Restaurant for the
- 18:08Speaker 1: first time in four years. That morning, Diane had held
- 18:12Speaker 1: his Denver omelet until eight thirty and eventually eaten it herself.
- 18:17Speaker 1: These were the facts the jury weighed, and the jury
- 18:20Speaker 1: found them sufficient. Dwayne Lewis recovered after the separation. He
- 18:25Speaker 1: was alive at trial. He did not testify publicly about
- 18:29Speaker 1: what he remembered from that October Tuesday morning, or from
- 18:32Speaker 1: the night on the porch steps, or from the fourteen
- 18:35Speaker 1: months in between. Investigators noted that some things from that
- 18:39Speaker 1: period he could not fully reconstruct. Whether that was the
- 18:42Speaker 1: ordinary blur of time or something else was never established
- 18:47Speaker 1: on the record. Renee Lewis had made a Sunday phone
- 18:50Speaker 1: call in December that her father could not explain, a
- 18:53Speaker 1: call in which he told her he had changed his
- 18:55Speaker 1: will and was not sure why. That dissonance, the gap
- 18:59Speaker 1: between action and understanding, is what she had held on to.
- 19:03Speaker 1: It was enough to hire Todd Tucker. Tucker had identified
- 19:07Speaker 1: the false lease and the substituted documents before the folder
- 19:11Speaker 1: ever surfaced. Both lines of inquiry reached the Harmon County
- 19:15Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department at almost the same moment, from two different directions.
- 19:19Speaker 1: Sometimes that is how these things break, not in a
- 19:22Speaker 1: single dramatic disclosure, but in two separate threads pulling taut
- 19:26Speaker 1: at once. There is something genuinely difficult about a case
- 19:30Speaker 1: like this one. The harm done to Duane Lewis was
- 19:33Speaker 1: not a single violent event. It accumulated a rearranged Tuesday,
- 19:39Speaker 1: a story about an eviction, a coffee shop on an
- 19:42Speaker 1: October morning, a moment of distraction at a table while
- 19:46Speaker 1: forty one documents moved across it. The architecture of what
- 19:49Speaker 1: happened to him was designed to be invisible, designed to
- 19:53Speaker 1: look from any single vantage point, like a relationship. That
- 19:57Speaker 1: design is what makes this case worth sitting with. Even
- 20:00Speaker 1: now that the verdict is in the accordion folder, is
- 20:03Speaker 1: still evidence of something The legal record cannot fully articulate.
- 20:07Speaker 1: That a person's reality can be rewritten incrementally, document by document,
- 20:13Speaker 1: tuesday by Tuesday, until they are living inside a version
- 20:17Speaker 1: of their own life that they did not choose and
- 20:19Speaker 1: cannot entirely see. Dwayne Lewis was not a careless man.
- 20:23Speaker 1: He owned a business. He had a daughter who called
- 20:26Speaker 1: him every Sunday. He had a booth at a diner
- 20:29Speaker 1: where a waitress saved his omelet because she knew he
- 20:32Speaker 1: would come. He was, by every account, a man embedded
- 20:37Speaker 1: in his own life, and still it happened to him.
- 20:40Speaker 1: That is the fact that does not resolve. When the
- 20:43Speaker 1: gavel comes down, April Anderson will serve her sentence. The
- 20:47Speaker 1: sixty three thousand dollars is gone. The house on Orchard
- 20:50Speaker 1: Flat Road presumably was returned, But the fourteen months themselves,
- 20:55Speaker 1: the ones Dwayne Lewis cannot fully reconstruct, those do not
- 20:59Speaker 1: come back. He was forty four when he met April
- 21:02Speaker 1: Anderson at Greg Paulson's birthday party on a Saturday in February.
- 21:07Speaker 1: He was just a man at a party, and for
- 21:09Speaker 1: a long time after that, he was not entirely sure
- 21:13Speaker 1: what he had agreed to, or when or why. That
- 21:16Speaker 1: uncertainty is the real subject of this case. Not the folder,
- 21:21Speaker 1: not the finger prints, not even the eleven year sentence.
- 21:25Speaker 1: The subject is what it costs a person to have
- 21:27Speaker 1: their own judgment used against them, quietly, over time, by
- 21:31Speaker 1: someone who studied how to do it. This show is
- 21:35Speaker 1: made by Obo Media,