Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #36: Gill1918 presents Dr. Simone Erdner Part 1 "Dear Coach"

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#36: Gill1918 presents Dr. Simone Erdner Part 1 "Dear Coach" · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Welcome to the Gill 1918 Project, a podcast series by
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Now let's get into today's topic.
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Hello Gil 1918 podcast audience. My name is Doctor Urdner and I'm
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excited for you to be here with me today as I talk to you about
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my book, Dear Coach, What I Wish I Could have told you letters
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from your athletes. So I'll in this episode, what
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I'm going to do is I'll kind of explain the book, why I even
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wrote this book, talk about some sample letters, excerpts from
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the chapters of the book and then obviously where you can
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purchase the book because I am going to promote myself here,
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obviously. So I have my coffee in hand.
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I'm excited for you to spend this next 20 to 30 minutes with
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me as I talk about my book, which the undertone of all of it
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is empathizing with you as a coach.
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Because as I was reading between the the lines of coaching
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interviews that I've done for research, athlete interviews,
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collecting a bunch of quantitative data.
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When you read between the lines and I'm going to, I'm going to
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say this in the beginning, I'll say it in the middle and I'll
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say it at the end, I believe as sport as a whole that we are not
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providing ample resources for you as the coach.
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So I'm coming from a place of empathy.
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The book is written in a way to be empathetic toward you.
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So maybe you read that title where it says, dear coach, what
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I wish I could have told you letters from your athletes.
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Maybe you cringe a little bit. Maybe you're like, Oh no, I
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don't know if I want to read those letters because what might
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my athletes say about me? It's a very vulnerable thing to
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do, obviously. But I do believe that we need to
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start having the conversations within the coach athlete dynamic
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and then at a larger scale with all sports stakeholders to talk
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about how to create sport as a psychologically safer
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environment for everybody, not just the athlete.
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OK, so I'll get into that a little bit more later, but to
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explain the book to you so that I believe the title does a
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pretty good job of explaining it.
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But the book, Dear Coach, what I wish I could have told you,
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Letters from your athletes written by me, Doctor Sarah
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Erdner. It is a book about what athletes
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have left unsaid. So when we look at the coach
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athlete relationship, we're looking at a power dynamic that
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all of us have been in, in one way or another, maybe on the
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athlete side, the coach side, both sides, maybe.
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And what has been left unsaid in the marginalized space, which
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would be the athletes. So they are the ones with lesser
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power. So they are following the
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guidance of the coach. And so prior to getting my PhD
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in sports psychology and motor behavior, where I emphasized on
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the coach athlete relationship, got that PhD from University of
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Tennessee in Knoxville, I got 2° for my master's and my
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bachelor's degree, Bachelor science, Masters of Science in
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communication studies with an emphasis on interpersonal
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community communication. So my first love is
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communication. And then when I transitioned
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into sports psychology, looking at the coach athlete
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relationship, there was no way I couldn't look at the
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communication or lack thereof in the coach athlete relationship
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or any other relationships. The assistant coach to head
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coach relationship, the sport administrator to the coach
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relationship. So it's a very multi multimodal
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approach in looking at the communication, but this book
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secifically is looking at coach to athlete communication.
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What have athletes left unsaid? O when I first started this
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journey, how did I even get to writing this book?
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I when you get into a PhD program for some, maybe some of
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you know this, you get in and a lot of what they're encouraging
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you to do is graduate on time. So within a, for me, it was a
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three-year time span. Mostly it's 4, but they're like,
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hey, like, you know, we're not necessarily saying you have to
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do this, but this is a very arduous process.
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So when you do research, it's about choosing a population of
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people to research that is a little is easier to access.
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So when I first started, coaches were easier to access.
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You could go on to any university website and find
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these coaching emails. So it was easy to create a
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coaching e-mail database. So I did, I started out doing
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that. And something I want you all to
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know about me is I'm pretty rebellious within parameters in,
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in society. So somebody tells me like I need
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to do something. I might in the beginning kind of
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do it. And then I start getting a
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little like, this isn't really what I want to do.
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So thankfully had a very supportive PhD mentors and I
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went to them and I said, listen, I really want to pivot.
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And some of this pivot was encouraged by you all as the
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coaches. So I started out asking coaches
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qualitative research, their lived experience with the coach
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athlete relationship, looking at the psychological needs of
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autonomy related in this incompetence as it's related to
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self determination theory. And they were all lovely.
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They gave me great data. But when I would finish the
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recording and I would click end on the record off script, they
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would be like, oh, you know, I would actually love to know what
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athletes think about this. And I was like, you know what's
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funny? That's actually the research I
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want to do. So me again, being like, you
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know what, I'm going to do this. And then you all as the coaches
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encouraging me to say, we actually want to know what the
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athletes think. I go to my PhD mentors and I say
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we need a pivot. And with this pivot, I actually
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do want to access athletes stories and I know they're going
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to be harder to gather, but I still would rather do this work
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because I don't want to look back and regret it.
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So this was around the time of my dissertation.
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So I got the support for my PhD mentors, went into the IRB
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process, got it approved that I could access, you know, athletes
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stories. It took a couple different, you
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know, gatekeepers that I had to get to to get access to them.
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But I was able to get quality interviews with these athletes
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to ask about their lived experience with the coach
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athlete relationship as it's specifically, and this was for
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my dissertation, so I had to have some nice controlled
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variables as it specifically pertained to relational
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resilience. So when you have a breakdown in
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the coach athlete relationship, how resilient is that
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relationship to be able to bounce back after a
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disconnection happens? So I tell these athletes, as I
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told the IRB that, you know, these will be 60 to 90 minute
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interviews. And let me tell you of every
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single interview that I gathered, they were close to 2
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1/2, three hours long. So, and I would tell them I'd be
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like, hey, you know, we're kind of at that 60 to 90 minute spot.
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If we need to make a break and come back on a later date, let
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me know. And they were like, no, I want
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to keep sharing. And I felt like a lot of it was
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because I was this neutral party coming in demonstrating to care
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about their lived experience. I wasn't another coach.
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I wasn't a teammate, I wasn't their parent who obviously had
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bias either toward the coach or toward the athlete, whatever it
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might be. But they just knew.
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And I told them I was like, my purpose for gathering these
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stories is to advocate for your lived experience and to see
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where are the breakdowns happening to where psychological
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safety isn't as present as it could be.
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So in these stories. So I'm gathering them and
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something really interesting came up.
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So when I from the the dissertation, I decided to then
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go and write the book itself. And in that shifted a little
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bit, obviously writing scientific research to writing
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this more popular press book, if you will.
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Definitely had to have a lot of coaching from my editor, from my
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publisher. And so I went out and thought,
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you know what, I want to go gather more stories.
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And so I put it out into the world and said, Hey, I'm, I'm
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writing this book. What do you wish you could have
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told your coach but never did? And something that was really
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surprising to me and a bias that I had was that I felt I was
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going to only receive critical letters.
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And some of that was because of my own lived experience as an
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athlete. Not that all my coaches were
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bad, but the majority of them I felt like I would have written
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more critical letters. And when you asked me that
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question, what do you wish you would have told your coach?
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Whatever did, my brain immediately would go to a more
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critical letter. But I received a bunch of thank
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you letters and that was fascinating to me as a person
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who specializes in communication because, wow, not only is there
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a lack of communication on the critical side of things, we are
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also not communicating the quote UN quote good, the thank yous.
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We see athletes more so maybe telling the coach at the end of
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the game or the end of the season.
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Thanks coach. I really appreciate what you did
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for me, but not going into detail.
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So how does the coach actually know what they did?
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Well? So we're not doing this positive
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reinforcement for coaches to really understand how they're
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doing well. And that was very eye opening
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for me and absolutely demonstrated the depth of the
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problem, which is without proper humanistically healthy
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communication within the coach athlete relationship that we're
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seeing a breakdown of the coach athlete relationship itself
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that's impacting optimal performance.
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The XS and OS that's on the core on the field, whatever
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respective sport that you play. So that was really fascinating
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to me. Another thing that was extremely
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fascinating is that as I was gathering these letters, some of
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them, I mean, as you could imagine, some of them just came
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out right? And they're like, I hate my
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coach, blah, blah, blah. So I was coaching them a little
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bit and not necessarily leading them, but just saying, hey, the
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audience is I want this book to be educational in nature.
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Your lived experience is valid. Let's take this from AI.
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Didn't like it when you did this.
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This is what I would have preferred instead.
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So it was me coaching them a little bit through like, how can
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we like, There's not just saying I hated you and you did this,
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blah, blah. And just kind of bashing isn't
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necessarily helpful. So that was really powerful,
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very therapeutic when we were working through that.
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As with the athletes that were writing these letters were some
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of them were written real time and some of them were
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retroactive. I did take out all identifying
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information because I didn't want people to get caught in the
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weeds necessarily of oh this letter is written by a football
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player. So this doesn't pertain to me
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because when you actually read the letters taking out the
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identifying information, whether it was a male or female, what
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sport it was, etcetera, or even the race of the athlete, we see
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that the themes are very similar across them.
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Now with that being said, when I went in and was thematizing
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these letters as the qualitative researcher I am, I go through,
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I've learned over the years to do multiple passes through on
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that thematic analysis because when you the first one you do
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very superficial. So you're kind of your own
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biases are coming through as much as we're trying to not let
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them bleed into the process. So I'm sitting in, I'm actually
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teaching a methods of coaching course and I'm standing in front
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of the class and I'm telling them about like as coaches, as
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future coaches, we want to make sure that we honor the athletes
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voice more, that we bring it in more and listen to it more
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rather than just dictating what the athlete is supposed to do.
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And there's ways that we can do this by providing like, let's
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say the task for the day is to to get better at layups in a
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aggressive defensive situation. Well, as a coach, you could say
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that's the task, but here's three different exercises that
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we can do to accomplish this. And then having the athletes
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determine what they want to do collectively.
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So that's a way to give autonomy.
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So I'm talking to class about this and about how we would, we
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don't want to dictate to the athletes what they should do.
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We want to bring their voice and give them more choice.
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And I stopped dead in my tracks middle of the lesson.
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And the students are like, I think Doctor Earner's having a
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stroke. And I said, I need to step out
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for just a second and I'll be right back.
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Y'all stop talking to small groups.
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I walk out, I call my editor, Amanda, and I say, I know this
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is going to cost me way more money to do what I'm about to
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ask if it's OK if we do. But I think I need to completely
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rework this book because the original draft of the book in
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the first couple, like 5 drafts of the book was me offering a
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letter. And then I would come in as the
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author and say, you know, this is what you should get from that
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letter. And here's all the research that
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supports it. I'd offer another letter.
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I'd do the same thing O it hit me when I was teaching this
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class. I'm actually doing the thing
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that I am teaching against that I am dictating to the reader
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what they should get out of these letters.
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And one of my favorite, favorite quotes is a book read by 1000
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different people is 1000 different books because your
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lived experience as the reader of Dear Coach is going to
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interact differently with each letter based on your specific
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nuanced live experience versus another reader's.
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So me coming in and doing letter telling you what to get out of
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it, letter telling you what to get out of it.
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So I call Amanda and I say I need to gather more letters and
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I need to shut up more. So the way the book is written,
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it's a three-part book. There's the thank you letters in
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the beginning and Ioffer a letter and then I provide some
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journal prompts after so that you can engage with the letter.
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You can start having conversations with people in
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your support group about that letter and how it pertains to
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you. The the Part 2, which has the a
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larger handful of letters, there's a good amount in the in
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Part 1 with thank you is the more critical letters.
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It's it's more so of you know, this is what I wish you.
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This is what I didn't like. This is what I wish you would
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have done as a coach. That would have helped me feel
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psychologically safer. And then I also give journal
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prompts after that Part 3 is where I come in and I basically
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say that this is my truth with a lowercase T, not an uppercase T
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because I do not situate myself as the expert.
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I am an expert that would like a seat at the table, but I want to
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collaborate with other people because some of the change that
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I'm calling for is a marathon approach.
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This isn't me. This is me wanting to call
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multiple people into a conversation for us to have
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discussions on ways that we can change sport to be
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psychologically safer for all stakeholders.
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So circling back to that thematic analysis that I did
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where I talked about, you know, the first couple layers of
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thematic analysis I do. But when I get to those deeper
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layers and I really, really read between the lines of what these
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athletes are saying, almost every one of them at some point
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in their letter, there's a shift into empathy.
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There's a shift into, OK, well, when I take myself out of my
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shoes and possibly stand next to you and yours, I can't imagine
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how hard it is to be a coach. You're working endless hours.
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You have a family at home that you're never getting to see or
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like you there. There was a couple athletes who
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they're the coach's partner was diagnosed with breast cancer,
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for example, or there was a death in the family, whatever it
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is. But there was always a shift in
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these athletes to where I thought that is profound.
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So when I looked at that empathetic approach, which is a
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part actually of something called the humanistic approach
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within counseling therapy. So the humanistic approach was
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brought about by Carl Rogers in the 1970s, and the three tenets
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of the humanistic approach are engaging in empathy,
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unconditional positive regard, and authenticity to create a
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therapeutic relationship. That therapeutic relationship
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then leads to optimal levels of performance.
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And when we bring that into a sports setting, we see optimal
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levels within the sporting environment.
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So I was like, you know what, this empathy, I've heard of this
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before and I actually see that intuitively without me coaching
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or me really even knowing the background of these men,
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people's mental health journeys. These people are intuitively
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engaging empathy in these letters, which is an aspect of
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of of adopting A humanistic approach with a coach.
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So then I took a step back and I thought, how might sport as a
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whole not be empathizing, not be engaging in a humanistic
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approach at large, right. Like we have like coaches
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engaging in a humanistic approach, empathy, unconditional
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part of regard and authenticity with athletes, of course, but
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how could sport as a whole not be adopting this humanistic
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approach? And how are we failing coaches?
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So this transitions me into really getting into the meat of
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the matter and how I spoke about in the beginning.
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I'm now sprinkling in here and I'll I'll end this episode on
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this is this book was written in a very empathetic way.
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This book was not written to call you out as a coach, but to
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call you into a conversation because you yourself as a coach
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were an athlete once who likely has your own dear coach letter.
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So if I were to ask you as a coach, put yourself back into
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your athlete's shoes. And if you were to write a
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letter to your coach, that's was dear coach.
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This is what I wish I could have told you but never did.
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What would that letter entail? And then after you write that
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letter, the next step is very vulnerable.
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Do it on your own. You don't have to share it with
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anybody. You don't have to.
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This isn't a homework assignment.
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You don't have to send it to me. I'm not going to redline it.
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OK, Reread that letter that you wrote to yourself.
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Read it to you as if it was written by an athlete that's
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currently under in in the relationship with you or maybe a
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previous athlete that was in a relationship with you.
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What components of that letter might you be enacting today?
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That's either not great, great what have you and make a list
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of, OK, where's the reality here?
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How might I actually be acting like the coach?
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Like all the things I said to myself prior, like I'm never
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going when I become a coach, I'm never going to do this.
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But the unfortunate truth is it's a lot stronger than just
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saying that we have mirror neurons in our brain.
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So the neurobiology of this is that mirror neurons are what we
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there are social learning neurons.
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So when we're a social learning environment, so put yourself
18:20
back in your shoes in an athlete, you're sitting here
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saying I'm never going to do this, I'm never going to do
18:23
this. And sure, you may never actually
18:25
do it, but the mirror neurons are there that we mimic the
18:29
social behavior that we're around.
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And if we don't intentionally intervene on the behavioral, the
18:35
emotional and the mental level to actually change that
18:40
behavior, we are explicitly and implicitly going to likely
18:46
engage in the same behavior, maybe not at the same magnitude
18:49
as our previous coach did because of these Marinons.
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They're socially learned behaviors that we then we soak
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them in to the fabric of our being.
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And unbeknownst to us in later years, we actually engage in the
19:03
same behavior, but it might present a little differently.
19:06
So we think I'm not like my old coach, my old coach, you know,
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my old coach did this. I'm not doing that specifically,
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but it might show up differently in a masked way that isn't a one
19:17
to one ratio from what it was previously.
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So doing this writing your own dear coach letter and then
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rereading that letter back to you as if it was written by an
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athlete under your power, under your supervision, under your
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coaching and having the honest conversation with yourself of
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what should I keep doing that I feel like is helpful.
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What are things I should stop doing?
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Like, let's be real with ourselves.
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Yikes, I probably shouldn't do that.
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So what would should we start doing?
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That may be like, oh, that's something my coach did that
19:50
actually was really powerful me. I should actually start
19:52
implementing that more. What should we stop doing
19:54
though? The yikesy moments that we're
19:56
like, oh, that's a little crazy. I need to stop doing that.
19:58
What should we keep doing? So what are the things that
20:00
you're doing currently that you're like, oh, I think this is
20:02
make that list and help that guide your coaching behaviors.
20:07
Another thing that came from these letters themselves was the
20:12
concept of culture. Now buzz, buzz, buzzword
20:16
culture, culture, culture. This is our culture.
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What I've seen a lot of coaches do is use the word culture very
20:22
prescriptively. So an example of this is this is
20:26
the team culture. And you as an athlete have to
20:28
adhere to this culture. And if you don't, we're going to
20:30
let you go because you're not a good cultural fit.
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The issue with that is that culture is so much deeper than
20:39
that Culture is when there is a psychological component to it.
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So let's say you are a coach for at the high school level,
20:51
university level, whatever, and these athletes come in and you
20:53
are using culture in a very prescriptive nature.
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This is the culture and you have to adhere to it or else.
21:00
Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here. Hey, I hope you enjoyed this
21:03
episode of the Guild 1918 Project series.
21:07
It's really my mission, my passion to bring you massive
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amounts of value and I hope this one hit the mark.
21:14
The Guild 1918 Project is really dependent on you if for you to
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build your own episode, to hear your voice, to have your voice
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and let's help create your episode of the Guild 1918
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