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Debut Panel: Emma Pignatiello, Kate Horan and Marion Taffe on book deals, writing tips and launch feelings · The Book Deal

0:09
Madeleine Cleary: This is the Book Deal Podcast, where you will discover the inspiring stories of the authors behind your favorite books.
0:15
Madeleine Cleary: No matter what stage of writing you're at, we've got you covered.
0:19
Madeleine Cleary: I'm Tina Strachan.
0:20
Madeleine Cleary: And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
0:21
Madeleine Cleary: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors, one deal at a time.
0:29
Madeleine Cleary: The Book Deal Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters which it's recorded on.
0:35
Madeleine Cleary: And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
0:42
Madeleine Cleary: Hi, it's Madeleine here.
0:44
Madeleine Cleary: If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you would've heard Tina and I mention our wonderful debut crew.
0:49
Madeleine Cleary: Essentially, it's a support group for brand new authors.
0:52
Madeleine Cleary: As we navigate the world of publishing together, have you ever wondered what we might discuss?
0:57
Madeleine Cleary: Well, in this episode, you're about to find out.
1:00
Madeleine Cleary: I had the great pleasure of speaking with three wonderful debut authors, Kate Horan, Emma Pignatiello, and Marion Taffe.
1:07
Madeleine Cleary: Kate has a background in corporate communications and was a former English and drama teacher.
1:12
Madeleine Cleary: Emma, who is a current teacher, has a long line of emerging writing accolades, winning CYA and the Veruna Affirm Press Mentorship Award.
1:21
Madeleine Cleary: And Marion was a former journalist and spent her teen years in her family's historic Ballarat home, which was open to the public.
1:28
Madeleine Cleary: Between them, they are covering shocking DNA test results, murder plots in wineries, and a 10th century poetess.
1:35
Madeleine Cleary: At the time of recording, Kate and Emma's books are out on the shelves, and Marion and I are waiting closely in the wings, so this made for an interesting chat.
1:43
Madeleine Cleary: And if you enjoyed this panel style chat, write us a review or get in touch, because we might do some more.
1:48
Madeleine Cleary: Kate Horan.
1:51
Madeleine Cleary: You've been the first of everything this year for our debut crew in 2025 with your book, The Inheritance coming out on the 1st of January this year.
2:01
Madeleine Cleary: So I'm actually not going to start with you.
2:03
Madeleine Cleary: Oh, okay.
2:05
Madeleine Cleary: I'll sit back and relax.
2:06
Madeleine Cleary: I feel like you've been our You know, first of everything this year.
2:10
Madeleine Cleary: So you can sit back and relax.
2:11
Madeleine Cleary: I'm going to introduce firstly, so Marianne Taffe, whose book comes out in about a month recording.
2:19
Madeleine Cleary: So it should be out in a couple of weeks.
2:20
Madeleine Cleary: So Marianne, can you give us the hook of your beautiful historical fiction novel, By Her Hand?
2:25
Marion Taffe: I would love to Madeleine and hello everyone.
2:28
Marion Taffe: Uh, so my novel, yes, comes out on the 5th of March and it's called By Her Hand and it's about a girl called Frida.
2:37
Marion Taffe: And after barely surviving a Viking raid, Frida is taken to an abbey where she finds a passion for the written word.
2:44
Marion Taffe: And inspired by the fearsome ruler Lady Aethelflaed, Frida writes her courage and rage into a poem.
2:52
Marion Taffe: This poem has the power to forge a kingdom, but it also has the power to destroy everything Frida holds dear.
3:01
Madeleine Cleary: Beautiful.
3:01
Madeleine Cleary: That's a lovely pitch, and I'm sure you're going to get used to practicing that over the next few weeks as well, Marion.
3:07
Madeleine Cleary: Um, I'm so glad that you pronounced lady, can you say that again?
3:11
Madeleine Cleary: Athelflad.
3:12
Madeleine Cleary: Athelflad.
3:14
Marion Taffe: Athelflad.
3:15
Marion Taffe: So her name is spelt with an old letter called an ash, which is the A and the E smooshed together.
3:21
Marion Taffe: And I love it.
3:22
Marion Taffe: I just You know, have my favorite letter.
3:24
Marion Taffe: Um, and it makes a kind of sound that's a little, probably the closest to like the A in Apple.
3:29
Marion Taffe: It's like a bit of an AE basically.
3:31
Marion Taffe: I mean, we still use it in words like pediatrician, encyclopedia, but, um, it's got a slightly different sound.
3:39
Marion Taffe: So it's sort of like an A, so it's Athelflad.
3:41
Madeleine Cleary: Now you don't have a background, an academic background, do you, in Old English?
3:46
Madeleine Cleary: Or is this something, how do you go from learning these things?
3:49
Madeleine Cleary: Cause it's not something we commonly learn.
3:52
Marion Taffe: It's crazy, isn't it?
3:53
Marion Taffe: Um, it's just become a bit of an obsession, but I think it's just, I have always really loved history and I've grown up in history.
4:03
Marion Taffe: So I grew up in an old house in Ballarat that was open to the public and it's just full of history.
4:10
Marion Taffe: Um, it's been in my family for over a hundred years and my dad's a historian and I just grew up.
4:18
Marion Taffe: you know, looking at his pictures of the Book of Kells and, um, and just.
4:24
Marion Taffe: fascinated by royalty and the church history and religious history, um, and European history.
4:31
Marion Taffe: I'll just, I just love history.
4:33
Marion Taffe: So, um, I, I really got into it that way.
4:36
Marion Taffe: I think it's more through interest.
4:38
Marion Taffe: Uh, and I never even thought of studying history, but, um, I've just always loved it.
4:44
Marion Taffe: I love historical fiction, movies, TV, and, um, And this became my favorite period and I, um, and yeah, so I started writing the book and I, I had a sort of.
4:59
Marion Taffe: an interest in the period already, but when I started writing the book, um, I really dived into it, um, and found out how much I didn't know.
5:07
Marion Taffe: I thought I knew a fair bit when I started, but, um, I knew nothing.
5:13
Madeleine Cleary: And, um, in the novel, so Frida, um, who's this wonderful.
5:18
Madeleine Cleary: Um, woman who's, um, wants to see her name on a page in a hand of her own making.
5:24
Madeleine Cleary: Is that something that you've always wanted to do, Marion, see your name on a page?
5:28
Madeleine Cleary: Oh, it's so funny.
5:29
Madeleine Cleary: No,
5:29
Marion Taffe: I am not one of these writers who always wanted to be a writer.
5:33
Marion Taffe: So, um, and I was lucky because I, I fell into writing.
5:39
Marion Taffe: I became a journalist in my early twenties.
5:42
Marion Taffe: Sort of by accident.
5:44
Marion Taffe: Um, I was rowing at the time and I, I did some rowing reports for the local paper and they offered me a job reporting on sport and it went from there.
5:55
Marion Taffe: So, um, I saw my name in print.
5:59
Marion Taffe: Then early on and, uh, and probably took it a little bit for granted.
6:03
Marion Taffe: People would say, wow, you've got a byline.
6:05
Marion Taffe: I'd say, of course I've got a byline.
6:06
Marion Taffe: I wrote this story.
6:09
Marion Taffe: And, um, so it sort of went from there, but I did not even entertain the idea of writing a book until, uh, Fairly recently actually probably in the past 10 years.
6:22
Marion Taffe: I started to think I might like to have a go at this Yeah,
6:26
Madeleine Cleary: well, we're glad you have my own Readers particularly of historical fiction, but all readers are just going to love this book I've had the privilege to read an early copy.
6:36
Madeleine Cleary: So Thank you for getting into writing Emma Pignatiello Hello Hello.
6:44
Madeleine Cleary: You are a fan of our podcast.
6:45
Madeleine Cleary: I know
6:46
Emma Pignatiello: I am.
6:46
Emma Pignatiello: I'm obsessed with you guys.
6:48
Emma Pignatiello: I listen every week.
6:50
Emma Pignatiello: And now you've let me on.
6:52
Emma Pignatiello: We are
6:52
Madeleine Cleary: so, so excited to have you on Emma.
6:54
Madeleine Cleary: Um, you've been part of our crew for a while now, and we've been so excited to watch your journey.
6:59
Madeleine Cleary: Um, you don't, you not only have one book, but two books coming out this year.
7:03
Madeleine Cleary: Is that right?
7:04
Emma Pignatiello: That's right.
7:05
Emma Pignatiello: Yes.
7:05
Emma Pignatiello: Actually the second one's coming out in April.
7:07
Emma Pignatiello: So yes.
7:08
Emma Pignatiello: Oh my goodness.
7:09
Emma Pignatiello: I don't know how you
7:10
Madeleine Cleary: do it.
7:10
Madeleine Cleary: Do you want to give us the pitch of your book, Last Shot?
7:13
Emma Pignatiello: Sure.
7:14
Emma Pignatiello: So Last Shot.
7:15
Emma Pignatiello: is an enemies to lovers romantic suspense novel.
7:18
Emma Pignatiello: It's set in a fictional town in the Margaret River region over here in WA, and the premise is that someone is going to murder millionaire wine mogul Giovanni Barberani tomorrow night, and the only two people who can stop the murder from happening are ex con Maxella Conrad and the Barberani's loyal fixer.
7:40
Emma Pignatiello: Greyson Hawke.
7:42
Emma Pignatiello: That is if they don't kill each other first.
7:45
Madeleine Cleary: I love this premise.
7:46
Madeleine Cleary: It's such a fantastic premise.
7:48
Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I messaged you today, today, because, um, I was driving back from my physio appointment and it was quite a long drive.
7:56
Madeleine Cleary: So I like to listen to, or I'm listening to Last Shot on audio at the moment.
8:00
Madeleine Cleary: And, um, there was the, and I'm not going to explain, I won't spoil it.
8:05
Madeleine Cleary: But I'm just going to call it the mudroom scene.
8:07
Madeleine Cleary: So for those.
8:08
Madeleine Cleary: Chapter 31.
8:11
Madeleine Cleary: Chapter 31.
8:15
Madeleine Cleary: It's not going to live up to
8:16
Emma Pignatiello: the hype now.
8:18
Madeleine Cleary: But that was my companion on my way back from physio and I was like blushing and laughing and giggling and people looking in, I think, at the traffic lights and being like, what is she listening to?
8:30
Madeleine Cleary: And then I had to log on to work.
8:31
Madeleine Cleary: That was really hard.
8:32
Madeleine Cleary: It's
8:32
Emma Pignatiello: a good, good, um, scene to get you in the mindset for work.
8:35
Emma Pignatiello: Right.
8:40
Madeleine Cleary: So, um, now I read Emma that you wanted to write Last Shot because you found that there weren't enough.
8:48
Madeleine Cleary: Murders happening in romance novels, is that right?
8:51
Emma Pignatiello: In a very, uh, yes, in a very short way.
8:55
Emma Pignatiello: It was kind of, normally I get ideas for a story and it comes from usually like three different things.
9:02
Emma Pignatiello: And it's more, it's usually like a better, a better story behind the story.
9:07
Emma Pignatiello: But for Last Shot, it really was, I was a bit burnt out with what I'd been writing.
9:12
Emma Pignatiello: I'd been writing YA fantasy and I was sort of in the middle of this.
9:17
Emma Pignatiello: fifth draft of this crime novel that I was trying to write.
9:21
Emma Pignatiello: It wasn't quite working.
9:23
Emma Pignatiello: I think it was.
9:23
Emma Pignatiello: And now that I look back, it wasn't me.
9:26
Emma Pignatiello: I don't know.
9:27
Emma Pignatiello: There was something not right.
9:29
Emma Pignatiello: And I was looking at my enormous 2B red pile on my bed.
9:33
Emma Pignatiello: And there was romance books and crime books and I was just, I just didn't feel like in the mood for either or.
9:39
Emma Pignatiello: But I was starting to realize the thing that was tying a lot of my manuscripts together and that what I really liked to write was often the like the banter between the two love interests and the the romance side of it.
9:50
Emma Pignatiello: And I never thought of myself as a Romance writer, but I was doing a course with the Australian Writer Centre.
9:55
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and it was all about romance and it all sort of just so that, yeah, the genre all came to me before, I guess, the characters did, which has never happened before.
10:05
Madeleine Cleary: You've got a few manuscripts in your bottom drawer.
10:07
Madeleine Cleary: Bottom drawer,
10:08
Emma Pignatiello: yes.
10:08
Emma Pignatiello: Um, last shot was Fifth Times the Charm.
10:12
Emma Pignatiello: For me, it was the fifth manuscript.
10:14
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
10:14
Emma Pignatiello: And had
10:15
Madeleine Cleary: you, what, what, what did you do with the others?
10:17
Emma Pignatiello: So, the first one was a, basically I started writing it in high school, um, so it was a complete amalgamation of like Vampire Academy and Twilight and, you know, all those kind of urban fantasy.
10:30
Emma Pignatiello: I think
10:31
Madeleine Cleary: all of us have kind of, well, I mean, I've attempted one of those as well, like in my teen years.
10:35
Madeleine Cleary: So
10:36
Emma Pignatiello: I loved it, but yeah, it was, and I sort of finished that.
10:38
Emma Pignatiello: Um, in 2019, when I decided to take writing more seriously, the second one, I had a little bit more success with, um, I got a mentorship with a firm press at Veruna, um, which was just amazing.
10:50
Emma Pignatiello: And that was like, it was one of the best, you know, experiences.
10:54
Emma Pignatiello: I've ever had, not just writing.
10:56
Emma Pignatiello: Um, that one, yeah, it didn't, it still needed a bit of work.
11:00
Emma Pignatiello: I wrote a third one, which I didn't do anything with.
11:02
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and the fourth one I did, I did try, um, to sort of, I didn't, I don't think I submitted it to any publishers.
11:10
Emma Pignatiello: I did submit it to a few competitions.
11:12
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and I did.
11:13
Emma Pignatiello: some assessments at the CYA conference, um, just to sort of get a bit of a, a gauge as to if, if it was going down the right track.
11:22
Emma Pignatiello: So I had, I was working on that one, um, when I wrote Last Shot.
11:26
Emma Pignatiello: So it, Last Shot, yeah, it was the fifth one, um, and yeah.
11:31
Emma Pignatiello: The, the one I eventually got a yes with.
11:33
Emma Pignatiello: Did you go through many
11:34
Madeleine Cleary: rejections with Last Shot, or was it smooth sailing?
11:37
Madeleine Cleary: Um,
11:37
Emma Pignatiello: no, it's, it's, no, it was, the first person I showed it to was my now agent, Danielle Binks.
11:45
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and when we went out on submission, so she submitted it to, I think, eight publishers.
11:49
Emma Pignatiello: I did get, like, some rejections in that process.
11:53
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and then we had sort of three publishers who were interested.
11:58
Emma Pignatiello: Um, but yeah, so there was definitely rejections in the, in the submissions, but in terms of that manuscript, it was, it was far more smooth sailing than the other ones had been.
12:08
Madeleine Cleary: I guess that shows though, like, so here you are, you've got, you're onto your fifth manuscript.
12:13
Madeleine Cleary: That, I mean, none of, they're not, they're not.
12:17
Madeleine Cleary: Oh no, not at all.
12:18
Madeleine Cleary: I
12:18
Emma Pignatiello: had to learn, yeah, they were my training wheels, I think.
12:21
Emma Pignatiello: And I think I definitely, I still love all of them except the first one.
12:24
Emma Pignatiello: No one's ever going to see that.
12:28
Emma Pignatiello: Apparently vampires are
12:29
Madeleine Cleary: back though, so.
12:29
Madeleine Cleary: They are,
12:30
Emma Pignatiello: they are.
12:30
Emma Pignatiello: This was witches though, so it was.
12:33
Emma Pignatiello: Witches are very in.
12:35
Emma Pignatiello: It's terrible.
12:37
Emma Pignatiello: The others though, I do, um, especially, um, They're quite romanticy.
12:42
Emma Pignatiello: Romanticy wasn't a thing when I was writing them, but they are, they are romanticy.
12:46
Emma Pignatiello: So I'm definitely going to do something with those two.
12:49
Emma Pignatiello: Um, but the crime novel, I think.
12:52
Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
12:52
Madeleine Cleary: I'm looking forward to your future romanticy books.
12:55
Madeleine Cleary: This is going to be great.
12:57
Madeleine Cleary: Kate, do you have any manuscripts hidden in your
13:01
Kate Horan: bottom drawer?
13:02
Kate Horan: Well, I actually, speaking of manuscripts, I submitted my second book on Friday.
13:07
Kate Horan: Oh
13:08
Madeleine Cleary: my
13:08
Kate Horan: gosh! How did you do that?
13:11
Kate Horan: You've launched
13:11
Madeleine Cleary: a book and submitted a second one?
13:14
Madeleine Cleary: That's amazing.
13:15
Madeleine Cleary: I
13:15
Kate Horan: have, yes, but I'm on quite a deadline because of um, how short the time frames were from when I signed my book deal to when my first book came out.
13:24
Kate Horan: Because I got a two book deal, my second Deadline is actually only, you know, um, five months away.
13:31
Kate Horan: So yes, I know I can see your faces.
13:34
Kate Horan: I know podcasting is not a visual medium, so this won't be able to appreciate that, but everyone just made a sort of pulled a funny face when I said that I only have five months until that deadline.
13:45
Kate Horan: But the good news is I've submitted that.
13:47
Kate Horan: So, you know, hopefully, hopefully she reads it and she loves it.
13:50
Kate Horan: And But, you know, she might come back with some feedback and, and, you know, I might do another little rewrite here or there, but anyway, good progress.
14:03
Madeleine Cleary: Huge.
14:04
Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
14:04
Madeleine Cleary: Well, Kate, let's talk about your first book first though.
14:07
Madeleine Cleary: Do you want to give us the pitch for The Inheritance?
14:12
Kate Horan: Yeah, sure.
14:13
Kate Horan: So the inheritance is about two women and a dark secret that connects them.
14:18
Kate Horan: 29 year old journalist Meg Hunter arrives in the exclusive town of Hartwell to investigate suspected corruption by Ashworth property.
14:26
Kate Horan: She's also seeking answers to the mystery surrounding why her mother fled the town 30 years before, leaving them with no family at all.
14:33
Kate Horan: Meanwhile, 30 year old heiress Isabel Ashworth is sent to Hartwell by her mogul father to rescue a controversial Um, development of a historic jail and to prove her commitment to the family business.
14:47
Kate Horan: When she's there, her path crosses with Meg's and the carefully guarded secrets of the past start to unravel with the help of three DNA test kits, which mysteriously appear under the Ashworth's Family Christmas tree addressed to the three adult siblings, and nobody knows who put them there or why or what secret it is that they are designed to expose.
15:07
Kate Horan: Um, but basically Isabel starts to question everything she knows about her family and she's drawn to Meg and her pursuit of the truth, but somebody will stop at nothing to keep their secrets hidden.
15:17
Kate Horan: Bum, bum, bum, chaos in shoes.
15:21
Madeleine Cleary: How good's that?
15:22
Madeleine Cleary: Marion, you look like you're on the edge of your seat there.
15:25
Marion Taffe: I know.
15:25
Marion Taffe: I've got Kate's fork, it's just over just nearby.
15:29
Marion Taffe: I bought it just last week.
15:31
Marion Taffe: So very good.
15:32
Marion Taffe: Thank you.
15:33
Marion Taffe: Can't wait.
15:34
Madeleine Cleary: It's brilliant.
15:34
Madeleine Cleary: And I lived in Canberra for many years and I just pictured the, the South, the Kangaroo Valley, Southern Highlands.
15:41
Madeleine Cleary: Little towns in my head.
15:42
Madeleine Cleary: Like I just, that was what I visualize and it's, you know, an amazing spot and brilliant book.
15:48
Madeleine Cleary: So congratulations.
15:49
Madeleine Cleary: And it's just flying as well.
15:51
Madeleine Cleary: Like you've done so well, but I just want to step back though, before we talk about the release of it.
15:56
Madeleine Cleary: I, I think.
15:58
Madeleine Cleary: All of us in this group, actually, we remember you coming and joining us mid year last year.
16:05
Madeleine Cleary: And you said to us, Oh, I've just signed my contract.
16:07
Madeleine Cleary: It's June and it's going to be out in January.
16:11
Madeleine Cleary: And we all said, what?
16:12
Madeleine Cleary: We pulled the same faces that we just pulled.
16:14
Madeleine Cleary: I think, how have you done this?
16:16
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, I know.
16:16
Madeleine Cleary: It's
16:17
Kate Horan: funny, isn't it?
16:17
Kate Horan: Because, you know, everyone always talks about how slowly things go in publishing.
16:23
Kate Horan: And that certainly was my experience, you know, of all my author friends, you know, often it was.
16:28
Kate Horan: two years from signing a book deal until the book came out.
16:32
Kate Horan: Um, yes, whereas mine was six months, so it was a, I mean this time last year, so what is it, mid February, this time last year, um, I was, my book was being structurally edited by, like, I got a structural edit done, um, and I was waiting for that to come back to me, and I hadn't signed with my agent yet, um, and so that came back sort of end of February, and then I spent most of March working like crazy because I was about to get on a plane in early Um, April and I thought I'm just going to have to get this done before I go and so I did and I sent it off to the agent who was, you know, who I'd been talking to about it at Curtis Brown.
17:16
Kate Horan: Uh, and that was on the Tuesday after the Easter long weekend and she signed me up the next day on the Wednesday.
17:21
Kate Horan: So I got on the plane on the Thursday night and I had an agent, which was amazing.
17:25
Kate Horan: So that was like the first.
17:27
Kate Horan: Big breakthrough.
17:28
Kate Horan: Um, and then while I was away, she sent me, she said, I've got a few little ideas, just suggestions.
17:34
Kate Horan: Do you want me to tell you now?
17:35
Kate Horan: Or do you want to wait till you get back from your holiday?
17:37
Kate Horan: I said, no, no, no, tell me now so that my brain can start ticking away on it.
17:42
Kate Horan: And, um, so then when I got back, I, I made those, you know, sort of tweaks here and there, and it was, It was the end, very, I think it was the last day of May that she sent it out.
17:54
Kate Horan: I think she sent it to eight or nine publishers and she was going on holiday.
17:58
Kate Horan: So she said, take your time to have a read.
18:00
Kate Horan: I'm away for a couple of weeks, come back and let me know on.
18:03
Kate Horan: And she sent, said like 17th of June or something.
18:06
Kate Horan: HQ three days later said, we want to make an offer and we want to publish it in January.
18:12
Kate Horan: So that was it done.
18:15
Kate Horan: So it was crazy.
18:16
Madeleine Cleary: I just, yeah, it's just an amazing story.
18:19
Madeleine Cleary: It's, it's not a common one, I would say as well to move that quickly.
18:24
Madeleine Cleary: And how, I'm interested when you said you had been talking with an agent at Curtis Brown, how, how did you find that connection?
18:31
Kate Horan: Well, I did the Faber writing a novel course, um, in 2020, and she actually saw an extract in the anthology that gets published, um, after Faber.
18:46
Kate Horan: And so She saw that and she contacted Catherine Haman, who was one of the, the tutors that I worked with at Faber and said, oh, I like the look of this.
18:55
Kate Horan: So she was sort of interested in that manuscript, but that manuscript wasn't quite ready.
18:58
Kate Horan: And that manuscript actually is book two.
19:01
Kate Horan: Right.
19:02
Kate Horan: Um, so yeah, so what happened was she was interested in that.
19:05
Kate Horan: So then when I wrote the inheritance, because I had the idea for this DNA thing and.
19:12
Kate Horan: It just felt to me like a zeitgeisty thing that I should just hurry up and write.
19:17
Kate Horan: Um, and so I just put the other one to the side and I wrote the inheritance and then and I got some mentoring from Catherine Heyman when I was writing the inheritance.
19:27
Kate Horan: And so she suggested that we pick the conversation up again.
19:30
Kate Horan: with Claire at Curtis Brown.
19:33
Kate Horan: And so that was, that was sort of how that, that happened.
19:37
Kate Horan: Um, and so, you know, it was, it was quite a while before that, though, that she, um, you know, it was sort of October.
19:45
Kate Horan: Of the previous year to 2023 that she said that she liked it and I had to wait quite a while for the structural editor who she recommended to be available.
19:54
Kate Horan: And so it was quite a long, slow.
19:57
Kate Horan: There's all these, I think in publishing, there's all these periods of waiting where you just can't do anything to speed things up.
20:03
Kate Horan: And so.
20:04
Kate Horan: That was kind of, you know, a little bit frustrating because I was like, oh, I just want to get the structural edit done and, and keep cracking on with this.
20:11
Kate Horan: Um, but then little did I know that things were about to start moving very quickly anyway, um, as soon as that was done.
20:17
Kate Horan: So it all worked out, but I hope that story is like for people who are listening, who are writing and hoping to get published.
20:25
Kate Horan: I hope that it's Inspiring because I just remember often you'd sort of see people, Oh, that person's got a book to why don't I, you know what I mean?
20:33
Kate Horan: And it's easy to feel like that.
20:35
Kate Horan: But I think that it's just, when I reflect on that story, you just have no idea what's around the corner, like how quickly it all can change and your luck can swing the other way.
20:45
Kate Horan: Um, and that's certainly how I felt.
20:46
Kate Horan: I mean, it still feels like a crazy fever dream.
20:50
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, no, absolutely.
20:51
Madeleine Cleary: But it, you know, obviously you've been working on it.
20:54
Madeleine Cleary: From before 2020 as well, so it's now in 2025, so it's five years, so it moved, things move quickly, but Well, not The Inheritance, The Inheritance, yeah, but But in terms of your developing a
21:04
Kate Horan: writing career, you've been investing time and effort Yeah, in um, 2019 Yeah.
21:11
Kate Horan: So properly, you know, seriously trying to write a novel.
21:13
Kate Horan: Yeah.
21:14
Kate Horan: So I definitely put the time in.
21:17
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, absolutely.
21:18
Madeleine Cleary: What was your experience like Marion when you were approaching publishers?
21:21
Marion Taffe: Really different.
21:22
Marion Taffe: Yeah.
21:23
Marion Taffe: Really different decades, but I also started writing in about 2019.
21:28
Marion Taffe: So, um, that's interesting.
21:31
Marion Taffe: Yeah.
21:32
Marion Taffe: But quite a different path.
21:34
Marion Taffe: Actually it was 2018.
21:35
Marion Taffe: I started just.
21:37
Marion Taffe: Dabbling, and I, um, I'll go back and do the publication before I go back to 2018.
21:45
Marion Taffe: So I was, uh, yeah, I, I had started trying to write a novel and, um, decided it was terrible and I needed to figure out how to do this properly.
21:56
Marion Taffe: So I'd enrolled in professional writing and editing at RMIT.
22:01
Marion Taffe: And, uh, and that course was fantastic.
22:04
Marion Taffe: And, and I'd be, I'd started writing this novel before, um, I remember I had an excerpt, um, as my entrance, um, sort of as part of the entrance application.
22:16
Marion Taffe: And so I just chipped away.
22:18
Marion Taffe: at it through the course.
22:20
Marion Taffe: Um, and it was great because, you know, through the pandemic, it was, you know, it was just crazy with kids.
22:26
Marion Taffe: It was, and, and I don't think if I was doing that course, you know, I don't know what would have happened to my writing otherwise, but because I was studying, you sort of have to write, you know, they give you, they're giving you assignments.
22:37
Marion Taffe: If you want to pass, you have to write.
22:39
Marion Taffe: And so I was working on By her hand all the way through and just chipping away, chipping away.
22:46
Marion Taffe: And then as part of the course, um, we have a subject called, um, towards publication where, uh, we learn about, um, you know, getting an agent and how the publication industry works.
22:59
Marion Taffe: And, uh, the very first assignment is that we need to pitch to an industry representative and our teacher, Danielle Binks, um.
23:07
Marion Taffe: Uh, organized people to come in and, and we would pitch to them and, uh, Catherine Milne had come in and, and my group of five, we were pitching to Catherine Milne.
23:17
Marion Taffe: So Catherine
23:17
Madeleine Cleary: is one of Catherine.
23:19
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
23:19
Madeleine Cleary: So
23:20
Marion Taffe: Catherine's head of fiction at Harper Collins.
23:23
Marion Taffe: Um, and she looks after the fourth estate sort of.
23:26
Marion Taffe: Crew of, um, of the imprint and, um, Trent Dalton, Holly Ringland.
23:33
Marion Taffe: Yeah, just, and, um, I mean, it's, it's also not just the big names.
23:37
Marion Taffe: She, she's, her story sense is just incredible.
23:41
Marion Taffe: Um, but so she was interested in my pitch and she asked Danielle to make an email introduction and I sent her through some early chapters.
23:52
Marion Taffe: And, uh, and she said, you know, thanks for that.
23:54
Marion Taffe: I probably won't get time to read it.
23:56
Marion Taffe: And I said, oh, well, that's, that's fine.
23:58
Marion Taffe: Thank you so much.
23:59
Marion Taffe: And I thought, well, that was a really nice little ego boost and what a thrill to have Catherine Milne ask for that.
24:05
Marion Taffe: And I'll probably never hear from her again.
24:08
Marion Taffe: And then two days later, she emailed me as I was going to bed saying, Oh my gosh, we need to talk.
24:13
Marion Taffe: And so that, that happened quickly because I didn't have a full manuscript.
24:19
Marion Taffe: And so I was really honest with her right up from the start.
24:22
Marion Taffe: You know, this is, this is what I've got.
24:24
Marion Taffe: This is where it's at.
24:25
Marion Taffe: And I knew I needed to do a lot of work.
24:27
Marion Taffe: So she was fantastic.
24:29
Marion Taffe: And, um, so it was, It was acquired quite early on the partial, but it was a long process from then because I didn't have a first draft.
24:40
Marion Taffe: I hadn't given it to beta readers.
24:42
Marion Taffe: Um, and so, um, yeah, so Catherine had it for a while and then it was in development for a while.
24:50
Marion Taffe: And then after the structural edit, I just worked so hard on it last summer.
24:55
Marion Taffe: And, uh, I thought, oh, there might be another structural edit, but Catherine came back and said, I just love it.
25:00
Marion Taffe: It's, that's it.
25:01
Marion Taffe: We're off to copy editing stage.
25:03
Marion Taffe: So it was, um, moving along then.
25:06
Marion Taffe: So, yeah.
25:07
Madeleine Cleary: And it's a, it's a, you know, it's a historical fiction.
25:10
Madeleine Cleary: So you've.
25:11
Madeleine Cleary: got a lot of things that you have to make sure are accurate.
25:14
Madeleine Cleary: It's a long book too.
25:16
Madeleine Cleary: So, you know, copy edit in itself is, it's not a simple task, is it?
25:20
Madeleine Cleary: To, to go through and check and we were talking about the waxing and waning moons.
25:26
Marion Taffe: Oh yeah.
25:27
Marion Taffe: I love the moon.
25:28
Marion Taffe: There's a website that's got the moon cycles for, you know, 910 to 917.
25:35
Marion Taffe: It's amazing.
25:36
Marion Taffe: But apparently I've heard historical fiction writers who say they get complaints when, when they get the moons wrong.
25:43
Marion Taffe: So, um,
25:45
Madeleine Cleary: yes, that's what my proofreader picked up the, yes, issues with the moon.
25:49
Madeleine Cleary: So that's amazing.
25:51
Madeleine Cleary: I'm going to have to change that.
25:53
Madeleine Cleary: So yes, all those fun things.
25:55
Madeleine Cleary: Um, so Emma, when you signed your two book deal, had you written your second book?
26:02
Emma Pignatiello: Yes, I had.
26:04
Emma Pignatiello: So, I signed with my agent, Danielle Binks, um, in 2022.
26:12
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and that would have been in August.
26:15
Emma Pignatiello: And when I signed with her, um, because I'd done, uh, an assessment with her at the CYA conference again, and I had, well, you have to do like a little one line pitch.
26:27
Emma Pignatiello: Um, you have to do your comp titles.
26:30
Emma Pignatiello: Like what is this?
26:30
Emma Pignatiello: What other, um, Books, is this one similar to?
26:34
Emma Pignatiello: And you were allowed to sort of put any other details in that cover page, like if you thought it was part of a series or something.
26:40
Emma Pignatiello: So, I snuck in a little, you know, this is a standalone, but I do have ideas for, um, you know, there's some of the other siblings in the family, um, not romances between them, but, you know, them and someone else, just to be clear.
26:54
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and so I, I'd sort of said that, um, and so she said when she saw me, Let's get the second book written.
27:03
Emma Pignatiello: Uh, can you do, can you do that?
27:05
Emma Pignatiello: I said, of course, of course I can.
27:07
Emma Pignatiello: Uh, and I was looking at my notes the other day and I think I actually wrote the first draft for that one in about three months.
27:12
Emma Pignatiello: So, I wrote the first draft and I got Last Breath to her in January after I'd, I'd still needed like a lot of work, but I sort of edited it quite quickly um, and sent it to her.
27:23
Madeleine Cleary: While working full time as well, in your day job.
27:26
Madeleine Cleary: Yes,
27:26
Emma Pignatiello: yes, yes.
27:26
Emma Pignatiello: I do, I did have the school holidays though, um, for, for editing that, so that was, that's a bonus about being a teacher.
27:34
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and yeah, so when we pitched it, so that was, that would have been the start of 2023, that I had the manuscript, so two manuscripts to Danielle, and then during 2023, um, We did some edits back and forth between us on both of them, and then in, it would have been October 23, um, she pitched both, uh, Last Shot and Last Breath, uh, as a series with potential for other books.
28:05
Emma Pignatiello: to publishers.
28:06
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah, so it was written.
28:08
Madeleine Cleary: Oh my, well, that's good.
28:09
Madeleine Cleary: I'm glad it was because your schedule has been just as hectic.
28:13
Madeleine Cleary: It would have been impossible if it hadn't been written.
28:16
Madeleine Cleary: Absolutely.
28:17
Madeleine Cleary: And, um, so we're talking about before doing historical fiction research.
28:21
Madeleine Cleary: Food for last shot.
28:22
Madeleine Cleary: Tell us about the research.
28:23
Madeleine Cleary: I'm hoping you had lots of winery tours and that lots of them were tax deductible as well.
28:28
Madeleine Cleary: Did you deliberately set it on a winery tour?
28:30
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, yeah,
28:31
Emma Pignatiello: no.
28:31
Emma Pignatiello: I said it, yeah, I, um, I don't have a confession.
28:36
Emma Pignatiello: I don't really like wine that much.
28:39
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah, I know.
28:39
Emma Pignatiello: I said this at my book launch.
28:41
Emma Pignatiello: It was the first time I'd kind of said it out loud.
28:43
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and I think people were a bit Yeah, I don't know how that's going to go down, but I did, um, my, my Nono used to make his own wine and that's kind of where I got a little bit of the idea from like he's not, he is, he's not, he's in the book in that there's a grandfather who's, who's dead, but his name is Emilio, like my grandfather and I did sort of think, well, like his wine was terrible.
29:05
Emma Pignatiello: No, no one would drink it.
29:07
Emma Pignatiello: Um, but I was like, well, what happens if, yeah.
29:09
Emma Pignatiello: What would have happened if it had been really good?
29:11
Emma Pignatiello: Um, but yeah, I, I didn't.
29:13
Emma Pignatiello: And not poisoned as well.
29:14
Emma Pignatiello: And not poisoned, yes.
29:16
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah, Nono's wine was definitely poisoned.
29:18
Emma Pignatiello: The only reason he didn't get sick was, I don't know, he was tough.
29:20
Emma Pignatiello: He was tough.
29:21
Emma Pignatiello: He, we went on till 94.
29:23
Emma Pignatiello: But, um, yeah, so I think I, I did go to wineries though, uh, for the setting.
29:29
Emma Pignatiello: Uh, and I just, you know, as an excuse to go down south, uh, to Market River.
29:33
Emma Pignatiello: Uh, but I do have, um, you know, like friends that drink wine and they were more than happy to.
29:38
Emma Pignatiello: Ha! So I did, and I did a little bit of research into just, I guess, the, um, the logistics of a winery.
29:46
Emma Pignatiello: Uh, and there are sort of like, and this is, this isn't a spoiler, it's sort of there in the book, but there are lots of like secret passageways, um, on the Barberani estate.
29:54
Emma Pignatiello: So that did come from my imagination, but I did sort of have to look at logistically, you know, with sellers and stuff where would.
30:01
Emma Pignatiello: These things be, yeah, so not as much wine drinking as yeah,
30:07
Madeleine Cleary: definitely reading both your book, Emma and Kate's saw quite a few similarities in terms of this, you know, this family dynasty, the secrets, I was
30:17
Emma Pignatiello: understanding that too.
30:18
Emma Pignatiello: It's interesting, isn't it?
30:18
Emma Pignatiello: That, yeah, they're quite similar
30:20
Madeleine Cleary: in that way, the wealthy families.
30:22
Madeleine Cleary: What do you think?
30:23
Madeleine Cleary: Like maybe to both of you, what, why, why are we so fascinated with?
30:27
Madeleine Cleary: With sort of these family secrets, but also this like wealthy, wealthy people.
30:33
Kate Horan: I think rich people behaving badly is the best genre of anything.
30:37
Kate Horan: It's like a sub genre.
30:38
Kate Horan: So succession, it can be, you know, drama, it can be comedy, Schitt's Creek.
30:43
Kate Horan: I just love it.
30:44
Kate Horan: I lap it up.
30:45
Kate Horan: If it's got a rich family and, you know, there's something kind of a little bit entertaining about.
30:53
Kate Horan: How sort of slightly out of touch and removed from, you know, the lives of most normal people, but I also think that in a lot of, well, certainly in mine, and I'm not sure, Emma, I haven't read yours, but you sort of seeing the downfall of some of these people is quite.
31:10
Kate Horan: Reassuring.
31:12
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
31:12
Emma Pignatiello: Absolutely.
31:13
Emma Pignatiello: I agree.
31:14
Emma Pignatiello: And I think I, I'm fascinated with, I guess, shows like Downton Abbey where you've got the, you know, the rich family, but you've also got the other layer, the sTaffe.
31:22
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
31:23
Emma Pignatiello: And that was, I think my inspiration for Last Shot was the character that came to me first was, was Grey, who is the, the fixer, the sTaffe member.
31:31
Emma Pignatiello: Can we just say his name?
31:31
Madeleine Cleary: Can dulcet tones?
31:34
Madeleine Cleary: Like, cause that's in my, my, my audio book mind.
31:38
Madeleine Cleary: Grace
31:39
Emma Pignatiello: and Hawke.
31:39
Emma Pignatiello: Greyson Hawke.
31:40
Emma Pignatiello: Greyson Hawke.
31:43
Very sexy.
31:44
Oh, dear.
31:45
Emma Pignatiello: Um, but yeah, so I think I was, yeah, fascinated by that, um, interaction, I think, with the, the wealthy family and the, um, or yeah, not necessarily, like, For people, but their, their sTaffe who are obviously so different to them.
32:01
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
32:02
Madeleine Cleary: And especially in a modern day setting where having staff is not something that most normal people have.
32:08
Madeleine Cleary: Whereas in Australia.
32:14
Nadia Mahjouri: Hi, I'm Nadia Mahjouri, author of Half Truth, published with Penguin Random House.
32:20
Nadia Mahjouri: Half Truth is a family drama that tells the story of two women searching for answers about the same man.
32:26
Nadia Mahjouri: 22 year old Zara struggling with new motherhood in her isolated Tasmanian home at the bottom of Bruny Island.
32:33
Nadia Mahjouri: Desperate for answers about her own identity, Zara decides to travel to Marrakesh to find her father, a man her mother will not discuss.
32:42
Nadia Mahjouri: But when she arrives, she discovers he's missing and he hasn't been seen for over 20 years.
32:47
Nadia Mahjouri: Along with her extended family, who are desperate for news of him, Zahra tries to untangle the mystery of her father's disappearance, learning about Moroccan culture, politics, and herself along the way.
33:00
Nadia Mahjouri: Meanwhile, Hadija, Zahra's grandmother, is also longing to see her firstborn son, Ahmed.
33:06
Nadia Mahjouri: Packing her home of 50 years where her son was born, Hadija remembers her village childhood, her marriage at just 11 years old, and the birth of Ahmed when she was just 13.
33:18
Nadia Mahjouri: She recalls her son's fiery nature and his passionate fight against the monarchy, and the last night she saw him.
33:25
Nadia Mahjouri: The night after a failed assassination attempt on the King of Morocco.
33:30
Nadia Mahjouri: This novel is inspired by my own experience of traveling to Morocco in the late 90s with my baby to find my father.
33:38
Nadia Mahjouri: And it's a story of motherhood and loss, identity and belonging.
33:42
Nadia Mahjouri: Which makes ideal reading for perhaps a book club or anyone who would like to feel like they're traveling to Morocco from the comfort of their home.
33:52
Nadia Mahjouri: living room.
33:53
Nadia Mahjouri: I really hope you love Half Truth and enjoy meeting Zahra and Hadeeja.
33:58
Nadia Mahjouri: Thanks so much to Madeleine and Tina for the opportunity to introduce Half Truth to you all.
34:04
Nadia Mahjouri: Thanks a lot.
34:09
Madeleine Cleary: So Kate, I think I mentioned before, we've just been so excited to watch you and your book fly, like you were literally the first person to step off the cab off the rank for us.
34:20
Madeleine Cleary: How have you Felt dealing with all the publicity and the hype and the social media.
34:25
Madeleine Cleary: I've heard that the social media can be quite exhausting.
34:28
Madeleine Cleary: It's constant, but how have you?
34:31
Kate Horan: I haven't found it too much, really.
34:34
Kate Horan: I think because my book came out on New Year's Day and that meant that the events have been delayed until pretty much February.
34:41
Kate Horan: My book launch was on the 30th of January and that was the first event.
34:46
Kate Horan: It meant that I had January to be, you know, seeing the things that people were posting and looking at Goodreads, even though we're not supposed to and checking that, you know, there weren't any one star reviews there and all of that sort of stuff.
35:01
Kate Horan: So.
35:02
Kate Horan: And then now I'm kind of in the thick of events.
35:04
Kate Horan: I mean, this is the second podcast interview I've done today.
35:07
Kate Horan: Um, and I've got another one this week and, you know, hopefully it was more fun, Kate.
35:11
Kate Horan: Oh, well, there was only me and one other person on the other one.
35:14
Kate Horan: So you've got, you know, four times the, four times the fun.
35:19
Kate Horan: Yeah.
35:20
Kate Horan: So, um, I haven't found it too much, but I mean, I definitely think you've got to just manage the social media side of things.
35:28
Kate Horan: And also I was, I mean, I was trying to finish book two in January and I had children on school holidays as well.
35:35
Kate Horan: It was a little bit like chaos, but, um, yeah, fun.
35:40
Kate Horan: It's actually been extremely fun.
35:42
Kate Horan: And.
35:43
Kate Horan: Yeah.
35:44
Kate Horan: I keep sort of just reminding myself that it's fun because it can be like, Oh, I've got so busy, so busy, but actually it's busy doing all this really fun stuff.
35:52
Kate Horan: And you know, I'm starting at the moment I'm, you know, each day there's an email that arrives that says, do you want to come to this festival or do you want to do this or that?
36:00
Kate Horan: And it's just exciting.
36:01
Kate Horan: Do
36:02
you get those emails and you just go, what is this life?
36:05
Like a little bit, like I am like, wow, this is.
36:08
This is kind of funny.
36:09
Madeleine Cleary: How are you feeling about it,
36:10
Marion Taffe: Marion?
36:11
Marion Taffe: Yours
36:11
Madeleine Cleary: is coming
36:11
Marion Taffe: next.
36:12
Marion Taffe: Coming up soon.
36:13
Marion Taffe: So I'm a month away and I mean, I'm trying to get.
36:18
Marion Taffe: The calendar is starting to look really busy.
36:21
Marion Taffe: Um, and yeah, I have kids as well.
36:23
Marion Taffe: So they have, you know, sports competitions and things like that, and appointments that are rudely interrupting my publicity.
36:32
Marion Taffe: But, um, the, yeah, it's getting pretty, it's, it's kind of the calm before the storm in a way, I think.
36:39
Marion Taffe: Um, I don't know, Emma and Kate, you've been through it and Madeleine, this will be you soon.
36:43
Marion Taffe: To
36:44
Kate Horan: be honest, Marion, I felt.
36:47
Kate Horan: More stressed and kind of anxious before my book came out in that probably that bit between where you are and the publication day, I just felt increasingly, I just had like this sort of low level apprehension, 100 percent of the time.
37:00
Kate Horan: And I was, you know, in the middle of the night, I'd be thinking things that didn't even, you know, silly things like what sort of pen do you use to sign books and stuff like that.
37:08
Kate Horan: That is just nonsense.
37:10
Kate Horan: But that was sort of where my head was at.
37:12
Kate Horan: And then as soon as it was out, it was almost like.
37:14
Kate Horan: it was in the world and it wasn't mine anymore and I could just
37:18
Marion Taffe: let it go.
37:18
Marion Taffe: Yeah, I'm definitely feeling that.
37:21
Marion Taffe: And I remember, and it's like, you know, it's like these stages, it's not stages of grief, but there definitely was a period of grief for me.
37:28
Marion Taffe: I think when I realized that that's it, it was pens down, you know, and this story that has lived in your head for, uh, for me five years and has evolved, you know, every morning I'd wake up with a new idea and be like, well, she would say that, she would say this.
37:43
Marion Taffe: And, And to just get to that point where it's like, no more, there's this story is not going to evolve anymore.
37:49
Marion Taffe: Like, you can keep having these ideas and I'm sure I will for years from now, but I can't, I can't put it in the book.
37:57
Marion Taffe: Yeah, but also it was getting over that hump and realizing actually.
38:03
Marion Taffe: It's, it's not mine anymore.
38:04
Marion Taffe: I mean, it is my book.
38:05
Marion Taffe: It will always be mine, but it's, it's a kind of really beautiful thing to think it goes out into the world and every person will bring their own life to the story and it will become something different in everybody's mind, uh, a little bit different for everyone.
38:19
Marion Taffe: And so it's, yeah, once you let it go, um, it's quite freeing.
38:23
Marion Taffe: It's kind of like getting on a plane and just going, well.
38:26
Kate Horan: Yeah,
38:31
Marion Taffe: so that's, that's how it's feeling for me, this little period.
38:34
Marion Taffe: It's feeling good.
38:35
Marion Taffe: Actually.
38:36
Marion Taffe: I'm not feeling too bad.
38:37
Marion Taffe: That's great on there.
38:38
Marion Taffe: That's good.
38:38
Marion Taffe: I'm waiting for the madness to hit, but it's not too bad at the moment.
38:41
Madeleine Cleary: Calm before the storm.
38:43
Madeleine Cleary: What about you, Emma?
38:43
Madeleine Cleary: Has there been a period or a point where you've felt most anxious?
38:47
Emma Pignatiello: I think I definitely, like Kate was saying, just before it came out, I think I was feeling this dread that no one will read it, but then if they do, they will hate it.
38:59
Emma Pignatiello: And that was sort of, I sat with that for a long time.
39:03
Emma Pignatiello: Why do we do this to ourselves?
39:04
Emma Pignatiello: I don't know.
39:05
Emma Pignatiello: I don't know.
39:07
Emma Pignatiello: It's the, yeah, I think it's the imposter syndrome.
39:09
Emma Pignatiello: It's the, uh, uh, yeah.
39:11
Emma Pignatiello: I just, and then Goodreads terrifies me.
39:13
Emma Pignatiello: It still terrifies me.
39:14
Emma Pignatiello: And I have been checking it, but I know I need to stop.
39:17
Emma Pignatiello: Um, but, yeah, I think, I definitely, after the launch, I definitely felt this, um, Like I was coming down from a high because it was, you know, you have this adrenaline and then it just, it just drops.
39:31
Emma Pignatiello: Um, so I definitely felt that and that was a weird feeling.
39:35
Emma Pignatiello: I didn't expect that.
39:36
Emma Pignatiello: Um, I thought that I'd sort of, um, carry on with the high for, for a bit longer, but I'm definitely, I'm out, I'm out of that now.
39:42
Emma Pignatiello: And I'm, I'm sort of, I guess, a bit more stable, even though I've just moved house and I'm back at work.
39:47
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and I have a six year old who.
39:52
Emma Pignatiello: Uh, doesn't care that much that my book has come out into the world, funnily enough.
39:58
Emma Pignatiello: Um, so yeah, it's been, it's been weird.
40:00
Emma Pignatiello: I think I, cause I've got a very big imagination.
40:03
Emma Pignatiello: I think we all do cause they're writers.
40:04
Emma Pignatiello: So I think I imagine what it's going to be like and then if it's not like that, not in, it's been amazing, but I think, you know, Oh, it didn't happen the way I thought that was going to happen.
40:15
Emma Pignatiello: And then that's okay.
40:16
Emma Pignatiello: But I think I get in my head too much.
40:18
Emma Pignatiello: I need to just stop and be in the moment.
40:21
Emma Pignatiello: Sorry.
40:22
Emma Pignatiello: Round two in April.
40:23
Emma Pignatiello: I'm going to be in the moment more when it comes out.
40:25
Emma Pignatiello: Not obsess over little things as much.
40:28
Emma Pignatiello: I say that now.
40:29
Emma Pignatiello: Ask me again in April.
40:32
Madeleine Cleary: You were nodding along there, Kate.
40:34
Madeleine Cleary: Do you agree?
40:35
Kate Horan: Yeah.
40:36
Kate Horan: Um, yeah, I think it's, I don't know.
40:39
Kate Horan: I think there is something really, there's a lot of vulnerability required to put a piece of work out and let people judge it.
40:48
Kate Horan: And, you know, I mean, even the fact that good reads exist and people can write, this was terrible.
40:52
Kate Horan: This is the worst book I've ever read.
40:54
Kate Horan: If they want to, they don't have to have any, you know, qualifications.
40:58
Kate Horan: They don't even have to have read the book, you know, they can.
41:00
Kate Horan: And so there is something that is quite.
41:04
Kate Horan: You know, anxiety inducing about that, but yeah, for me, it was more just once it was out, I felt like I don't have control anymore.
41:12
Kate Horan: And there's a bit of a letting go of control.
41:13
Kate Horan: I think that's, that's for quiet
41:16
Madeleine Cleary: by the time it does come out, it's, it's really, it's not your book anymore because it's, it's so many people from the publisher, from the sales team, from publicity marketing, you know, everyone's had a role and everyone wants to Everyone wants to see it fly as well.
41:33
Madeleine Cleary: So it's that releasing, isn't it?
41:35
Madeleine Cleary: Once you're past that manuscript stage and getting it out there, which is so exciting.
41:40
Madeleine Cleary: Well, I think Marion and I have got some good tips, I think, from this.
41:43
Madeleine Cleary: This is quite helpful for me.
41:45
Madeleine Cleary: Thank you.
41:46
Madeleine Cleary: Wise ones.
41:47
Madeleine Cleary: And not checking Goodreads, I think it's going to be.
41:50
Madeleine Cleary: A tough one, but probably a good one.
41:52
Madeleine Cleary: You will, you'll
41:52
Emma Pignatiello: do it.
41:53
Emma Pignatiello: That's
41:54
Madeleine Cleary: what my husband keeps saying.
41:56
Madeleine Cleary: I'm like, no, no, no, I won't.
41:57
Madeleine Cleary: He's like, no, no, no, you will.
41:59
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, my husband's ready to block it when it comes out.
42:04
Madeleine Cleary: Okay, so I did have a chat with you guys about some recommendations of some debut authors from last year.
42:13
Madeleine Cleary: So, who would like to, does anyone have a book that they read last year?
42:16
Madeleine Cleary: It doesn't have to be Australian debut, it can be any debut from last year that they want to talk about.
42:21
Madeleine Cleary: Maybe you start with Mary?
42:22
Marion Taffe: Oh, me?
42:23
Marion Taffe: Okay, um, this is difficult because, um, for a little while my book was pencilled to come out.
42:30
Marion Taffe: In 2024.
42:32
Marion Taffe: But, uh, and so I read a lot of the Australian debuts last year and there's so many good ones.
42:38
Marion Taffe: It's really, really hard to choose.
42:39
Marion Taffe: So can I rattle some off before?
42:41
Marion Taffe: Because my, my choice is actually an overseas author, but it was really hard.
42:47
Marion Taffe: Um, Tidelines by Sarah Sasson.
42:48
Marion Taffe: Amazing.
42:49
Marion Taffe: Whenever You're Ready by Trish Bolton and Into the Margins by Gayle Holmes were probably, I couldn't decide between the three of them.
42:57
Marion Taffe: So I went overseas.
42:58
Marion Taffe: So I went overseas.
42:59
Marion Taffe: Um, and I went for The Safe Keep by Jael van der Vauden, I think is how you pronounce her name, um, which was shortlisted for the booker.
43:06
Marion Taffe: And um, it just was incredible.
43:10
Marion Taffe: Uh, uh, you know, it's set in the 1960s, so that qualifies as historical fiction.
43:16
Marion Taffe: And did you want to hear a little bit about it or it's quite famous now?
43:19
Marion Taffe: So, um, it's set in the Netherlands in the 1960s and follows.
43:23
Marion Taffe: the incredibly unlikable character is about, which is really quite horrible.
43:28
Marion Taffe: Um, but it's, it's, it's an incredible exploration of the repression of truth, like of, of sexuality and class and the ripples that war and dispossession send through generations and, and about reckoning with the true cost of what we have inherited.
43:48
Marion Taffe: The things around us and and I just found it a deeply challenging book and I felt like it really posed the question to me of what would I be willing to give up to live a truly authentic life and it's yeah so it's tough it just um it's beautiful writing and it's challenging and at some points you're just thinking oh you're pushing me to the edge here and uh and yeah but You know, it's, it all comes together just beautifully.
44:19
Madeleine Cleary: What a recommendation.
44:20
Madeleine Cleary: I don't think we're going to be able to match that one.
44:23
Madeleine Cleary: That was, um, beautiful, Marion.
44:24
Madeleine Cleary: Another one to add to the TBR.
44:26
Kate Horan: I read, um, well, I read a number of debuts last year, and there were lots of really Strachan ones.
44:32
Kate Horan: Um, the one that really stands out for me is Everything is Perfect by Maxine Fawcett.
44:37
Kate Horan: Um, I just thought it was a really interesting, Story very character driven about a woman who's sort of approaching, you know, sort of menopausal sort of age and starting to question quite a lot of things and feeling dissatisfied with her marriage and, you know, just life being quite mundane.
44:58
Kate Horan: Uh, and yeah, she, she develops a.
45:01
Kate Horan: A crush, which becomes an obsession on a, on a widowed father, who's, um, who's got children at the same primary school.
45:10
Kate Horan: And the thing that I just think is like, I really admire that Max really sort of took it.
45:16
Kate Horan: She, she really sort of pushed it in terms of the behavior of, of the main character, Cassie.
45:21
Kate Horan: Um, and I know, like, I've heard people say, Oh God, it was like, I couldn't quite cope with that.
45:26
Kate Horan: Like the characters, like quite a polarizing character, but I thought it was.
45:30
Kate Horan: Um, really interesting.
45:32
Kate Horan: I mean, I was riveted.
45:33
Kate Horan: I was turning the pages.
45:34
Kate Horan: Absolutely.
45:35
Kate Horan: And quite horrified.
45:36
Kate Horan: Don't, don't do that, you know?
45:38
Kate Horan: Um,
45:39
and yeah, she would, she would do the, the things that I was hoping she wouldn't, but
45:43
Madeleine Cleary: yeah, I great.
45:45
Madeleine Cleary: It was like, you were watching like a car kind of, yeah.
45:49
Madeleine Cleary: And you're like, no, no, no, don't do that.
45:51
Madeleine Cleary: And she's like, okay, now I'm doing this.
45:53
Madeleine Cleary: And you're like, Oh God.
45:54
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
45:55
Madeleine Cleary: And I loved, I actually listened to the audio book of that one as well, um, which was narrated by Anna Downs.
46:01
Madeleine Cleary: And so it was fantastic.
46:02
Madeleine Cleary: I didn't know that Anna also, so as a writer, she's a writer, Red River.
46:06
Madeleine Cleary: She was a rata,
46:07
Kate Horan: rata trained actor.
46:08
Kate Horan: Yes.
46:09
Madeleine Cleary: Amazing.
46:10
Madeleine Cleary: It was, yeah, fantastic.
46:12
Emma Pignatiello: I loved Everything is Perfect as well, so you stole one of mine, but no, I, um, I did, I really loved.
46:21
Emma Pignatiello: I don't think this is a 2024.
46:23
Emma Pignatiello: I think it was at the end of 23.
46:25
Emma Pignatiello: It was Green Dot by Madeleine Gray.
46:28
Emma Pignatiello: That's incredible.
46:30
Emma Pignatiello: My 2024 one I would say Anomaly by Emma Lord.
46:35
Emma Pignatiello: So it is, the main character is Piper.
46:38
Emma Pignatiello: And basically, it's kind of like, uh, the apocalypse has already happened.
46:42
Emma Pignatiello: Um, but there's so much more in store.
46:44
Emma Pignatiello: I don't want to give too much away, but it is just incredible.
46:48
Emma Pignatiello: So it is a YA dystopian, uh, novel and Emma's just her description, but her characterization and the banter between the main characters is just phenomenal.
47:00
Emma Pignatiello: So even if you're not.
47:02
Emma Pignatiello: Like, you normally read YA, I think just anyone can enjoy this book, so I actually recommended that to one of my students, um, the other day, who wanted to read.
47:11
Emma Pignatiello: my god, a teenager wants to read, you know, let me tell you all of these books, but I told her to get Anomaly, so.
47:18
Emma Pignatiello: I'm going to recommend it here as well.
47:19
Emma Pignatiello: Are you encouraging your students to read your book?
47:22
Emma Pignatiello: Oh, no, I'm not.
47:23
Emma Pignatiello: I, look, I know that we need to improve literacy rates.
47:27
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah, exactly.
47:28
Emma Pignatiello: Like, I know we need to improve literacy rates and everything.
47:31
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and like, I guess, you know, reading.
47:34
Emma Pignatiello: a book that your teacher wrote where there's like sex scenes in it.
47:36
Emma Pignatiello: I don't really know what else to do to improve literacy rates, but I don't, like, I don't, I, I've told them like it's, it's for adults.
47:44
Emma Pignatiello: So, um, I'm pretty confident they're probably not going to read it, you know, like.
47:50
Emma Pignatiello: Uh, so yeah, I said when you're, when you're 18 and then, but some of the year 12s do turn 18.
47:57
Emma Pignatiello: Um, in, so I, I've said when you leave school, never contact me again.
48:04
Madeleine Cleary: And you're going to be writing YA it sounds like in future as well.
48:07
Madeleine Cleary: So
48:08
Emma Pignatiello: yeah.
48:08
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
48:08
Emma Pignatiello: They can read that.
48:09
Emma Pignatiello: If I write some YA, they can read that one.
48:14
Madeleine Cleary: Emma we'll continue with you.
48:16
Madeleine Cleary: Do you want to leave?
48:17
Madeleine Cleary: I'm sure you've had lots of episodes to ponder your, your top tips.
48:21
Madeleine Cleary: I'm feeling
48:25
Emma Pignatiello: all the nerves.
48:26
Emma Pignatiello: Um, my, my top tip is it's kind of a three for one.
48:30
Emma Pignatiello: It is to like, I, I am no one, you know, I'm not, I'm nothing special.
48:37
Emma Pignatiello: So if I can do it.
48:39
Emma Pignatiello: If I can get a book deal, then anyone can.
48:41
Emma Pignatiello: So, in order to get your, your book over the line, I think there's three things you need, but it all, it all comes into the one thing.
48:49
Emma Pignatiello: It's all the one tip.
48:51
Emma Pignatiello: You have to want it, you have to love it, and you have to do it.
48:56
Emma Pignatiello: So, you've got to want it, which means you have to have that goal in mind.
48:59
Emma Pignatiello: Like, this is where I want to be.
49:01
Emma Pignatiello: I, I, want, you know, to sign the book deal or whatever it is.
49:04
Emma Pignatiello: And that's what keeps you sort of motivated and working towards it.
49:08
Emma Pignatiello: You've got to love it.
49:08
Emma Pignatiello: So even when, you know, you're tired and you just want to watch maths, you've got to, or Netflix or whatever, you've just got to sit down and write and you have to love the process of writing.
49:20
Emma Pignatiello: Um, and you have to do it.
49:22
Emma Pignatiello: You have to sit down, you have to open up the laptop and you just got to do it.
49:25
Emma Pignatiello: And you will get there, I promise, because I did.
49:27
Madeleine Cleary: There you go.
49:29
Madeleine Cleary: Even if it's just one word per day, still progress.
49:32
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
49:33
Madeleine Cleary: And you'll find if you go on and you're like, Oh, I'm just going to do five minutes, and then before you know it.
49:38
Madeleine Cleary: Time yourself,
49:39
Emma Pignatiello: Pomodoro method, a hundred percent.
49:40
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
49:41
Madeleine Cleary: Oh, is that a method?
49:41
Madeleine Cleary: Is it?
49:42
Madeleine Cleary: Well, it's not just a method,
49:43
Emma Pignatiello: but it's a thing.
49:43
Emma Pignatiello: Oh yeah.
49:43
Emma Pignatiello: Lots of people better than me do.
49:48
Kate Horan: It's a short burst, isn't it?
49:49
Kate Horan: Like a 20 minute.
49:50
Kate Horan: Yeah.
49:50
Kate Horan: Yeah.
49:50
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
49:51
Kate Horan: Sit down for 20 minutes.
49:52
Kate Horan: It's like tricking yourself into exercise.
49:54
Kate Horan: I think you sometimes got to trick yourself into it and say, I'll just sit down and I'll write one paragraph and then I'll, if I'm not feeling it, I'll get up again.
50:02
Emma Pignatiello: And inevitably you do more than one paragraph.
50:03
Emma Pignatiello: You never get up
50:04
Kate Horan: after a paragraph.
50:05
Kate Horan: Yeah.
50:05
Kate Horan: So yeah.
50:07
Kate Horan: Good tips.
50:07
Kate Horan: Yeah.
50:08
Kate Horan: My tip would be, I think you do have to invest a bit in learning the craft of writing.
50:15
Kate Horan: And I think when I reflect on my, I, at first, I just tried to do it without learn, like, I just thought I'll just try and see and if I can work out how to do this and you can't.
50:29
Kate Horan: I mean, it's a very complicated thing to do writing a novel.
50:32
Kate Horan: It's hard to think of anything quite, quite as complex as, as writing, you know, a novel.
50:37
Kate Horan: And I think you do have to learn the craft.
50:39
Kate Horan: So I would say.
50:41
Kate Horan: invest in, in the learning.
50:43
Kate Horan: Um, for me that looked like, I mean, I, I did the Faber writing a novel course, which is one of the ways of doing it.
50:49
Kate Horan: Um, there's lots of different options, craft books, all of that, but just learn the actual craft.
50:56
Kate Horan: Like just as one example, um, when I learned how to write a scene and I really understood the structure of a scene, I felt like that was quite a game changer, um, in terms of my writing.
51:09
Kate Horan: And.
51:10
Kate Horan: Even just how quickly I could write, once I understood that, um, that it became faster for me to write.
51:16
Kate Horan: I didn't have to sort of fumble my way through trying to work out how to make this thing work anymore.
51:22
Kate Horan: Um, so just some of those technical things that you can learn, um, I would say invest in the learning.
51:30
Madeleine Cleary: Are you a plotter or a pantser, Kate?
51:33
Kate Horan: I'm a
51:34
Madeleine Cleary: pantser.
51:34
Madeleine Cleary: In fact, to the point where I thought
51:36
Kate Horan: I
51:36
Madeleine Cleary: was listening to you going,
51:37
Kate Horan: she's a blotter.
51:39
Kate Horan: No, no, I'm a pantser.
51:41
Kate Horan: And to the point where I didn't even finish my first draft, because I thought, now I know where to start this story.
51:48
Kate Horan: And so I just went 65, 000 words, three quarters the way through.
51:52
Kate Horan: I'll stop there.
51:53
Kate Horan: And I'll start my second draft.
51:55
Kate Horan: So I was halfway through my second draft and I still didn't know the ending.
51:58
Kate Horan: And so I was starting to really panic thinking, what if I can't think of it?
52:02
Kate Horan: What if I can't work out how to bring this home?
52:05
Kate Horan: And then I was driving my car one day and it just came like this bolt from the sky.
52:10
Kate Horan: It just happens like that.
52:12
Kate Horan: Oh, that's what she does.
52:14
Kate Horan: And so that was it.
52:15
Kate Horan: Yeah.
52:15
Kate Horan: But so I pants, but I also think that that whole pants are plotter distinction is a little bit.
52:22
Kate Horan: Less true in real life because it's just doing one first and then the other I think like I pants but after maybe, you know, a draft or two.
52:31
Kate Horan: Then I need to work out what I've got and make sure that it's working, you know, from a plot perspective and really think about, you know, the structure of it and, and whether it's doing what it needs to do to be satisfying for readers.
52:44
Kate Horan: So, I think you still do the plotting if you're a panther, it's just that you don't start with the plot, the plotting.
52:51
Kate Horan: I agree.
52:52
Kate Horan: You start with the characters and the scenario.
52:53
Madeleine Cleary: Have you guys heard of the quilters and the knitters as well?
52:56
Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
52:57
Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
52:58
Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
52:58
Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
52:58
Madeleine Cleary: Emma.
52:59
Madeleine Cleary: So yes, you, you can explain this.
53:02
Emma Pignatiello: Oh no.
53:02
Emma Pignatiello: I've heard of it.
53:03
Emma Pignatiello: I can't remember it.
53:04
Emma Pignatiello: Okay.
53:04
Emma Pignatiello: I can explain it.
53:07
Emma Pignatiello: I
53:07
Madeleine Cleary: can explain it.
53:08
Madeleine Cleary: So Kate Sully, um, who you guys might know, um, yeah.
53:13
Madeleine Cleary: So I went to her event last week and she said, so you've gone one level and I'm holding on my hand for, for, for us, but for listeners, I'm just holding it horizontal.
53:21
Madeleine Cleary: That's all you've got.
53:23
Madeleine Cleary: Plotter's Pants Spectrum.
53:24
Madeleine Cleary: And then if you flip it, you've also got quilters and knitters.
53:28
Madeleine Cleary: So quilters are writers who will just quilt a certain scene, and then, but it could be at any point in the novel, and then they'll just patchwork the novel together.
53:39
Madeleine Cleary: I'm a knitter.
53:40
Madeleine Cleary: Knitters are the people that go like, I was horrified to hear that there are quilters that exist.
53:45
Madeleine Cleary: I
53:46
don't know
53:48
Kate Horan: how.
53:48
Kate Horan: I find it hard enough to keep track of my story when I go in chronological order.
53:53
Kate Horan: I don't know how, if you jump around, you can keep track of all the details.
53:56
Kate Horan: And I don't know
53:56
Emma Pignatiello: how you do it in a Like in a mystery novel or a crime novel.
54:00
Emma Pignatiello: I just, yeah, like I understand pantsing and, and, but I would assume that you're still writing chronologically.
54:07
Kate Horan: Yeah.
54:07
Madeleine Cleary: Well.
54:09
Madeleine Cleary: What about you, Marion?
54:09
Madeleine Cleary: I remember you once telling me, I was horrified when you told me this Marion, and I still remember it today.
54:15
Madeleine Cleary: I know what this is going to be, yes.
54:18
Madeleine Cleary: The chapters.
54:19
Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
54:20
Madeleine Cleary: You
54:20
Marion Taffe: said you had no chapters.
54:22
Marion Taffe: I had no chapters.
54:24
Marion Taffe: I have no clue about chapters.
54:26
Marion Taffe: I, I think in scenes, so, I don't think it's so far removed from chapters, so I would write scenes.
54:32
Marion Taffe: And I, I, I actually think everybody does, but I, I remember asking so many teachers, like, what, how do you know what's a chapter?
54:39
Marion Taffe: Like, because is it too, it's, it's.
54:42
Marion Taffe: It's just a bit sort of higgledy piggledy.
54:44
Marion Taffe: Some have two scenes.
54:46
Marion Taffe: Yeah.
54:47
Marion Taffe: So it's just that, um, ending on a hook to keep people reading.
54:53
Marion Taffe: Um, I don't, I don't know about that.
54:56
Marion Taffe: And as I was writing, it just wasn't a priority for me to think about.
55:01
Marion Taffe: Things in terms of chapters, and I have friends who, yep, I'm going to write a chapter today.
55:06
Marion Taffe: I'm like, how do you, how do you know?
55:08
Marion Taffe: Like you might go back and delete a scene and then you've got to move your chapter heading because you'll have a teeny tiny chapter or a really big fat chapter.
55:16
Marion Taffe: Um, so no, I just had this massive document that I wrote into and, um, and sometimes I would write a little bit ahead.
55:24
Marion Taffe: I'd think, Oh no, I need to work on this scene.
55:25
Marion Taffe: And I'd kind of pull it out and work on it in a separate document and then stick it back into my big, huge, chapterless void.
55:35
Marion Taffe: I know everyone was quite mortified.
55:37
Marion Taffe: I just thought, you know.
55:39
Marion Taffe: People, I don't know, I don't know how you work in chapters and think in chapters.
55:43
Marion Taffe: So I basically went through once I had finished the manuscript and divided it into chapters.
55:48
Madeleine Cleary: I was reading your manuscript thinking about this and just thinking, how natural are the chapters?
55:53
Madeleine Cleary: They were very natural.
55:55
Marion Taffe: So good.
55:55
Marion Taffe: Thank you.
55:56
Marion Taffe: Well, nobody changed them.
55:58
Marion Taffe: So that was good.
56:00
Kate Horan: One thing that I think is a strength of the way you did it without the chapters is That every, I find once there's some books that I read and I have this.
56:13
Kate Horan: Suspicion theory.
56:14
Kate Horan: And I don't know if I'm right or wrong that it is because of what people writing in Scrivener where the documents are separate from each other, whether it feels like the chapters are disconnected from each other, where
56:25
you don't feel
56:26
Kate Horan: this really Strachan connection between the end of one chapter and the start of the next.
56:30
Kate Horan: And that's one of the reasons why I've never been like, uh, Scrivener just doesn't really work for me because I just.
56:37
Kate Horan: I write in a big Word document too, because I want that chapter to flow straight into that one, because I think that's what makes you keep turning pages as a reader.
56:44
Marion Taffe: Okay.
56:45
Marion Taffe: Yeah.
56:45
Marion Taffe: Interesting.
56:46
Marion Taffe: Although, yeah, I know some, I haven't even tried Scrivener and I couldn't because I started this in Word and I just couldn't mentally do, I couldn't.
56:55
Marion Taffe: Change midway through, um, but my tip is a little bit different.
57:00
Marion Taffe: Yes, you're going to finish us off as well.
57:02
Marion Taffe: Okay, don't write chapters.
57:06
Marion Taffe: No, um, my tip is actually a little bit more crafty.
57:12
Marion Taffe: And it was something that you hear a lot when you start to do.
57:17
Marion Taffe: You know, take Kate's advice and, and get some, get invested in some craft and some learning.
57:22
Marion Taffe: You hear a lot about voice and it's always an element of, of any sort of introduction to fiction course and you find your voice, find your voice as a writer.
57:32
Marion Taffe: And um, to me it's kind of like trying to read a newspaper with your nose on the page.
57:38
Marion Taffe: It's just, you know, where's my voice, where's my voice?
57:42
Marion Taffe: It just seems strange.
57:43
Marion Taffe: So my advice, I think, um, I really liked the tip to not think about finding your voice, your voice is there and it will come and it will evolve naturally, but think about finding your character's voice and throw them, you only find that by writing and throwing them into situations, seeing how they react, what they're thinking about, ask them, you know, what lies.
58:06
Marion Taffe: Do they tell themselves what's beneath that?
58:09
Marion Taffe: Why do they do this?
58:10
Marion Taffe: And why do they do this?
58:11
Marion Taffe: No, really, why do they do this?
58:13
Marion Taffe: And just get into that nitty gritty of the character.
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Marion Taffe: And I think your writer's voice just comes naturally if you concentrate on finding your character's voice.
58:22
Marion Taffe: So, um, yeah, that's my tip.
58:25
Marion Taffe: I feel like I wanted to
58:26
Madeleine Cleary: do a workshop with Marion on voice.
58:29
Madeleine Cleary: Cause I just like, Oh, I need to take notes.
58:31
Madeleine Cleary: This is good.
58:31
Madeleine Cleary: And I think also for The voice is the first thing they really look at.
58:39
Madeleine Cleary: If they're not hooked by the voice in the first few chapters, doesn't matter how good the story is.
58:44
Madeleine Cleary: The voice has to be there and present and in your head.
58:51
Marion Taffe: you can see it.
58:52
Marion Taffe: But when you're learning and someone is just saying, well, you've got to find your voice.
58:56
Marion Taffe: It's, I don't know.
58:57
Marion Taffe: I just found it was just like, well, there's not a lot about how to do that.
59:01
Marion Taffe: And it's really just through writing and, and then you find different characters.
59:07
Marion Taffe: Um, you know, you've got different voices.
59:09
Marion Taffe: So, um, Hey, you've always got
59:12
Madeleine Cleary: something to say.
59:13
Madeleine Cleary: I can see.
59:14
Kate Horan: No, I was, I agree with that.
59:16
Kate Horan: And, and I think.
59:17
Kate Horan: I've often thought about this whole find your voice thing and often when you ask people, what do you mean by voice?
59:23
Kate Horan: They kind of can't quite answer that question.
59:26
Kate Horan: Like it's a bit of this ephemeral kind of thing that's like slippery through your hands.
59:31
Kate Horan: You can't quite get a hold on it.
59:33
Kate Horan: And so I think Marion's advice is really good there.
59:36
Kate Horan: I think just really standing in the shoes of your character and thinking and seeing the world the way they see it.
59:40
Kate Horan: And how would they, how would they speak?
59:43
Kate Horan: How would they think?
59:46
Kate Horan: I think, yeah, I think that's a better way of coming to whatever that voice thing
59:50
Marion Taffe: is.
59:50
Marion Taffe: Yeah, and I think you get to know your voice.
59:52
Marion Taffe: I mean, especially if workshopping and writers groups and getting that feedback, you get to go, Oh, that's, that's a me thing.
59:59
Marion Taffe: Oh.
59:59
Marion Taffe: I
1:00:00
Emma Pignatiello: think it took me five manuscripts to find my voice.
1:00:02
Emma Pignatiello: I think that's why last shot worked.
1:00:04
Emma Pignatiello: The others didn't.
1:00:05
Emma Pignatiello: Yeah.
1:00:05
Emma Pignatiello: I think you're so right.
1:00:06
Emma Pignatiello: It's in the writing.
1:00:08
Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
1:00:09
Madeleine Cleary: Well, I'm going to leave this with Greyson Hawke's voice in my head later tonight.
1:00:16
Madeleine Cleary: And Freida, who's, I know, doesn't it?
1:00:19
Madeleine Cleary: And Freida, a woman from the 10th century.
1:00:23
Madeleine Cleary: So I love the diversity of this year's debut crew.
1:00:26
Madeleine Cleary: Um, so thank you so much, Emma, Marion, and Kate for joining us tonight.
1:00:31
Emma Pignatiello: Thanks for having us.
1:00:33
Emma Pignatiello: Thank you, Madeleine.
1:00:34
Emma Pignatiello: Thanks.
1:00:35
Emma Pignatiello: Thank you.
1:00:36
Madeleine Cleary: We hope you enjoyed this episode of the book deal podcast.
1:00:39
Madeleine Cleary: Please like, follow or share this episode so we can encourage more aspiring authors.
1:00:43
Madeleine Cleary: And if you have a question you'd like us to answer or ask our guests, please find us on Instagram at the book deal or email us at the book deal at outlook.
1:00:52
Madeleine Cleary: com.