Latest / Minor Mischief Podcast / The Madness of Mary Flora Bell
Transcript
- Kiki George: What happens when him, him, her, her bodies, bodies, bodies begins to pile up around a seemingly innocent ten year old girl? This is a Mind of Mischief Podcast and this is the madness of Mary Flora Bell. Welcome back. Welcome back. I used to sing that in like the earlier episodes. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back to another episode of the Minor Mischief Podcast. I am your host and homegirl for the time being, Mrs. Kiana Amir. And thank you for hanging out with me. Today's story, child. And I know, I know, I know, friend. I know I say this every week. I know every week I'm just like, what in the world? But even after doing the research and reading the case notes and all the things, I still could not figure out why, girl. Also, trigger warning. As I described Mary's upbringing, there is mention of sexual abuse and prostitution of a minor. So listener discretion is advised. Also, her victims were fairly young, three and four years old. So another trigger warning there. If that's not your jam, you can totally skip today's episode. But let's get into it, shall we? We shall. So today we are once again traveling across the pond to the town of Scotswood in Northeast England. In Scotswood, we meet Mary Flora Bell, who is our mischief maker, along with her homegirl, Miss Norma Bell, no relation. And then we also meet Martin Brown and Brian Howe, who are the stars of our show, but also unfortunately our victims. Now Scotswood is an electoral ward of Newcastle upon Tyne in Northeast England. And I wish, friend, I wish I could elaborate on what any of that meant, but I promise you I read it multiple times. I looked it up on several different pages, and while I was just like, is this j and if Johnny had five apples moment, I could not figure it out. Scotswood is known for its engineering culture and its strong manufacturing background. Scotswood, according to Google, is not a standalone town, but a residential area that hosts a little under 14,000 residents. Fun fact about Scotswood: the original Scotswood Bridge opened in 1831 and it was very significant as it was the first bridge built over the River Tyne during the industrial era. Like I said, I wish I could tell you what any of that meant. Just know that Scotswood is in England. It's across the pond. It's in northeast England. I don't know where it's close to. Hold on. Let me, you what matter? A fact. 'Cause I you know, I'm not gonna do anything haphazardly. I'm gonna let you know. Where and this is ghetto, I'm sorry. Where is the closest major city to Scotswood in northeast England? You got me. It still says Newcastle. I don't know. I don't know. Regardless, Mary Flora Bell was born to her parents, William Billy Bell, and Elizabeth Betty Bell on May 26th, 1957. Mary does have one older sister named Catherine. And get this, Mary was born to her mother when her mother, Betty, was just 16 years old. According to Mary's aunt, Betty did not want children and resented Mary since birth. With one source saying that Betty's first words after Mary was born was like, take this thing away from me. Now her father, Billy, questioned Mark on whether or not he was actually her father. If he was or whether he wasn't, he did claim her as his own. Billy, though, he wasn't much better. He was a raging alcoholic and he was extremely violent toward Betty. However According to Mary's family, and this is not making excuses for Billy because he was still a woman beater, but according to Mary's family, Billy was kind and gentle to her, and he was a great father figure in her life for the time he was there. Shortly after Mary's birth, Billy and Betty got married, and so life began for the new couple and their daughters. I didn't find any work history on Billy or any information on how long he and Betty were married, how long they were together. But from what I could find, Billy did end up being arrested and convicted for armed robbery. And he was carted away. And with that, Betty became a single mother. Now, Betty, she had to use what she had to get what she wanted. She had to make that money and not let that money make her because she became a very well known prostitute in Dominatrix. And by the time Mary was four years old, Betty was just like, Mary, I'ma show you how to use that thing to make some money. Come on, you got people out here waiting at four years old. She would allow her clients to sexually abuse Mary and force themselves on Mary. She would blindfold her, handcuff her, restrain her while all this was going on, allegedly. I had to throw that out there because this is Mary's account. Her family said they knew nothing about her being involved, but I'm going to believe Mary's account. Now, as if this was not hard enough, Mary, you know, at this point, she's four years old, she's five years old, she's still a, you know, precocious kid despite all that she's going through. She is friends with one of these kids in the neighborhood. And you know, they would play outside by themselves. Like it was completely normal during that day and age for four or three and five-year-olds to be playing outside by themselves. And so her and her friend, they're outside playing. And unfortunately, they're like playing with their freaking blocks or whatever. And they're playing in the street. And Mary's friend was struck and killed by a passing bus. And if you think Miss Betty took the time out to console her or to say, you know, a sweetheart death unfortunately is a part of life, but let's make sure you heal properly. Baby, you clearly don't know Betty because she did none of that. So from a very young age, Mary was said to experience severe abuse and neglect. Neglect in the form of her mother would leave her home alone for days at a time while she traveled for quote unquote work. I'm like, girl, you could lay on your back anywhere. Like if you leave her alone for a couple hours, which you shouldn't. Because she's four and five years old, but I would rather you do because when you do these things in the house, you involve her. But days, girl, you can lay on your back at the hotel across the street. Like, I don't understand. Regardless, Mary was neglected. And some notable moments of abuse in Mary's life were, well, being forced into prostitution was a big one. when she was three, her mother quote unquote accidentally dropped her out of a first floor window. And the family really did say like accidents happen to Find Mary. And this is what led them to believe that these things weren't accidental. It's like, why every time we see your child, she got a new bruise? Why every time we see your child she's recovering from a hospital visit? Something is definitely up with that. But they just weren't unable to note whether it was actual abuse or just her being neglectful and Mary falling down the stairs or Mary playing in the street and hurting herself, you know? At one point. Betty sold Mary to a mentally unstable woman who was unable to have children of her own, in which Mary's aunt, who reports name as just Miss McCricket, went and had to go get her and bring her home. Like you cannot allow a mentally unstable person to raise your child. But I mean, all in all, maybe she was better off. I don't know. Miss McCricket did also say that the family did know about some of the things that Mary endured, and they did try to have her removed from the environment and raise her themselves. But their attempts were unsuccessful. Mary was overdosed on sleeping pills because her mother didn't want to deal with her that night, you know? Things like that. And because of what she was dealing with at home, Mary began to show signs of severe behavioral issues. Some of her peers admitted to Mary having a tell, like they knew she was about to get crazy. Sh her eyes would get glazy, they would get glassed over, and then her head would start shaking. And they were just like, you know what? Mary about to be on her BS. Like let's let's leave her alone respectfully. Mary attended the Delavalle Roll Junior School, where at school she would lash out and hit and strangle and suffocate the other children. And this right here is exactly why I tell my kids, don't start nothing, but please finish a thing if somebody puts their hands on you and make sure you win. Like make sure they don't ever, never, never, ever put their hands on you again. With all that being said, One source did state that one time Mary blocked the trachea of one of her classmates with sand. And I really do want to know how that worked. Like because I'm just like it's sand. How much sand did you have to put down someone's trachea to block their windpipe? And how was it removed and this person survived? Like I have so many questions, but I wasn't able to find like the true backstory on that story. At this point, the other kids were like, nah, I can't be friends with this psychopath. But as luck or maybe misfortune would have it, in nineteen sixty seven The house next door became vacant and in moves the family of Norma Bell. And so with that, Mary was finally able to make a friend. She found a friend in her new next door neighbor and they became very close, inseparable almost. And they spent most of their days playing together and, you know, finding what trouble they can get into. Because you see, Norma wasn't a punk. She was known as Norma Walk Down Belle. She was known as Norma Walk'em Down Bell by me. But as I was reading about Norma, I said, that's Norma Walk Down. Bell. Like she had no problem knocking your head off your shoulders if you tried her. Like they said, Norma was a scrapper. Like she fought. And you know what? As long as you weren't starting no mess, Norma, by all means go off. And I guess that's what made her and Mary's relationship work so well, because Norma wasn't afraid. And Mary was just like, you know what? This is exactly what I need. A chick that ain't afraid of me. Because everybody else was afraid of her. and listen, we all had like friends who weren't the best influences. Like everyone had a friend that they would get into trouble with. And if you did not have a friend that you would get into trouble with, baby, you were the friend. You were the friend. I wanna name mine so bad, but I haven't talked to her in of like probably since childhood. And I would really hate for this to be her first impression of how I described her. But I would have to also admit that I have been the bad friend and influence. I have been Definitely the bad friend and the bad influence, a time or five. Trust me, I have talked my friends into some stuff that I was just like, why would you listen to me? Like, yes, I know I gave you that advice, but girl, why would you listen? You know I'm unhinged. At any rate, it's Saturday, May 11th, 1968, and Mary and Norma are playing outside as they do when they see a three-year-old boy playing in front of his house. Now, this boy is unnamed in reports, so let's call him Ben. So Ben is outside, he's playing with his Tonka trucks or whatever, and Mary and Norma walk up to him and they're just like, Hey, Ben, do you wanna play? And so they start playing and they're just like, you know, it's kinda getting hot, the sun's beaming down on us a little bit. Why don't we walk over to this empty air raid shelter and continue to play there? Now, during this time in Scottswood, They were going through major renovation. Like they were tearing up the old Victorian style houses and they were putting in new modern apartments, new flats, new houses, just to kind of keep up with the sign of the times. So there were a lot of like old buildings, dilapidated buildings, you know, things like that. And so this air raid shelter, for those of us like myself who didn't know, it's kind of like a bunker where people would go into for protection against gas attacks in World War Two. So, like if they were dropping bombs from the air, this was a safe place to be. If they were, you know, spraying the area with gas, it was okay for them to go in there and be safe. They served that purpose to really protect the residents during that time. However, they did not prove to be helpful against ground attacks as an attack from the ground would take an air raid shelter down. Now that we cleared that up, Mary, Norman, and Baby Ben were playing on top of this air raid shelter. And Mary's just like, hm. Hmm, you know what would be fun. Let's push this boy off this thing. And so they did. They pushed Ben seven feet to the ground and really skipped to my loot about their day after that. Didn't check on him, didn't see if he was okay. They were just like, whatever happens, happens, and let's move on. So they go and then there are these other girls playing, and they're just like, Hey, you guys want to play? And so, of course, the girls start playing together. And so Mary turns to the first girl. We'll call her girl A. And she goes, What happens when you choke someone? Do you think they die? And so the girl is just like she like kind of turns to Mary like, huh? And before she knew it, Mary's hands were around her damn throat. And she's just like choking her. And Norma at this point, she's like, Mary, chill, like, stop. Mary, you're choking her. Mary, she's turning purple, Mary. And shortly before the girl would have passed out, Mary let her go and turn to the other young lady whose name was Pauline. And she choked Pauline too. Now, my question here, and this isn't like no shade or anything to the girls, but I'm just like, why'd y'all just sit there? Because you start choking one person, I'm running for help. You don't have to worry about me. I'm not about to sit here and just watch you choke. You start choking one person, I'm running for help. You start choking two people, baby, I'm I'm out of here. Okay. And I'm telling my mother what you did. Like, no. So Mary's choking Pauline and Pauline is starting to turn purple in the face too. So finally she lets Pauline go and she turns to the other girl whose name is Susan because at this point Susan is trying to get Mary to release Pauline, which I suppose is the right thing to do. But girl A definitely should have ran for help. And so Mary finally lets go of Pauline as sh like, you know, she is like the color is leaving her face and she turns to Susan and starts choking her. While all of this is going on, little Ben wakes up and he's just like wandering the streets of Scotswood, bruised and bloodied. And so he is seen on St. Margaret's Road and the police are called. So the police go up to him. They're just like, hey sweetheart, you know, I see that you're bloody. Like, where are your parents? Is everything okay? What's going on? And he goes, I was playing with Mary Bell and Norma Bell on top of the air raid and they pushed me off. And so the police are just like, okay, let's go over to Mary and Norma's house and figure out what the hell is going on here. And so they go over to Mary and Norma's house and they're just like, you know, hey, what exactly happened? We have this young man. He said that you guys pushed him off this air raid. He's severely bruised. He's bleeding. We just need to know what's going on. And so they're just like Mary and Norma both are like, no, I like we were playing, yeah, but we didn't push him off of anything. Maybe he fell and maybe he's just a little confused because he fell. And so as the police are questioning them and they're giving their rendition of things, the parents of the girls that they that Mary was choking earlier, they come up and they're just like, Hey, by the way, our respective daughters came home and said that Mary was choking them. And Mary is just like, Excuse me? Whatever do you mean? Like I don't I don't choke people. That would be crazy work. But at this point, Norma had flipped the script. And Norma was just like, Yes, Mary Throttled the girls, stating quote, Mary went to one of the girls and said, What happens if you choke someone? Do they die? Then Mary put both hands round the girl's throat and squeezed. The girl started to go purple. I told Mary to stop, but she wouldn't. Then she put her hands around Pauline's throat and she started going purple as well. Another girl, her name is Susan Cornish, she came up and Mary did the same thing to her. End quote. I keep telling y'all about committing crimes in front of your friends. They will flip on you every single time. But also, I guess more importantly, don't go around choking people. So the police take the information from the parents and the affected girls, as well as Ben's statement and Norma's statement, and they punish Mary by giving her a good, firm talking to. And they said, Mary, don't go around choking people. And that was it. No further action was taken. Exactly two weeks later, on May 25th, 1968, Mary's outside playing again. And she was alone this time and she sees four year old Martin Brown. Not much is known about Martin Brown's life, but he was set to live with his mother June and the rest of his family in Scotswood. I read an article that said on this Saturday morning, Martin had gotten up and dressed and fed himself. He got his baby sister up, dressed her, fed her some milk. And he grabbed his hat from by the door because at this point his parents were up. They slept in that morning while he was being the adult of the house. And he looks at his mom and he goes, Ma'am, I'm going out to play. I'll see you later. Okay. And she says, Okay, sweetheart, have fun. And I read that and I was just like, My four year old could never, my four year old could never get up, get himself dressed and fed, and wake up his little sister if he had one and get her dressed and fed. My four year old could never. That boy still puts his shirts on backwards. He still puts on his clothes inside out. I can tell when my baby dressed himself like. But this was said to be how the times were back then. Like before stories of pedophiles and child abductions began sweeping the media by storm. You know, kids were allowed to go out by themselves at young ages. And so throughout Martin's day, He goes out, he's like chatting up with the construction workers. He's you know, he goes to the store and he's just like, Mr. Storekeeper man, may I have a bit of candy? And he gets candy. Like they knew him because this was regular for Martin. He would go out, he would play, he would go to the local store, he would chat it up with them. It kind of reminds me of like, you know, my family's from Trinidad and Tobago, and several of my uncles have owned like bars and establishments. And my son, my oldest, when he was younger, He would do the same thing, like whenever we would be in Tobago, he would go wake up, go down to the bar, sit, ask for some peanut punch and a bag of chips, and like they knew him because that's who he was, even though we didn't like live there. But when he visited, they were like, yeah, we know he's we know him, you know? And so I pictured it to kind of be that kind of thing. So at three o'clock, Martin goes home and he asked his dad for some money to buy a lollipop. He's like, Yeah I've pretty much gained all the free loot I'm gonna get today. So can I can I get some change for a lollipop? And so his dad is like, yes, Martin, of course. And so he gets gives him some money. Martin goes to the local store, purchases the lollipop that he went in for, and then he goes out to play. Begin between three and three thirty, Martin runs into Mary. And so they start playing together. And they're playing and they're playing and Mary's just like, Do you ever wonder like What it's like inside these abandoned houses. And Martin's like, I mean, maybe, but they're kind of scary to me. And she's just like, Well, let's go in together, shall we? Like, I got your back. I'll protect you if anything is in there. And so they go into this abandoned house located at 85 St. Margaret's Road. And no one but Mary and Martin know what happened next. But shortly after 3 30 PM, a group of children go inside of the home to play. Because I feel like we all did this, like Did y'all do that growing up? Play in the abandoned houses and the empty apartments? I used to do it all the time with my friends. And thinking back now, I'm like, girl, that was so dangerous. Like, what if there was somebody squatting in there? Like you walked into this house, you don't know what's inside, you don't know what's going on. But me and my friends, we would be in there just playing. We also used to knock on random people's doors and run, and I would never advise anybody to do that. Like that is so dangerous, but it sure was fun at the time. So the kids. You know, it's three little boys and they walk into the apartment and they find Martin laying on his back next to some pill bottles with a small amount of blood on his mouth. So they scream and they run outside and they notify the first people that they see, which was a construction worker named John Hall. They're just like, sir, there's a little boy in there. We like, we think he's dead, we think he's hurt, something happened to him. So John walks in. To the apartment and he immediately begins CPR on Martin while the others call for emergency services. Unfortunately, it was too late and Martin had already passed on. Now, while John was performing CPR, Mary and Norma show up in the doorway. And I guess Mary goes home and she tells Norma, like, Norma, I got something cool to show you at this apartment at 85 St. Margaret's. And so they go back to the scene where they find John performing CPR and Martin. And John looks at them and he's What the hell y'all doing here? Get out. Like, you see me trying to save this boy. And he kind of shoes them away from the scene. So police and EMS report to the scene, and seeing Martin laying next to an empty bottle of pills with no obvious trauma to his body, they determine his cause of death to be poisoning. An autopsy was performed on Martin, and his cause of death was listed as undetermined, although the poisoning was officially ruled out. The next day on May twenty sixth, nineteen sixty eight, police report to the scene of the local nursery school as they got a call that it had been vandalized. The staff came in to find torn books, desks flipped over, tiles peeled off, like the place was just completely ransacked. So police come to investigate and they find four notes in chicken scratch handwriting which read quote. And you guys have to excuse me because there's foul language on this. Y'all know I don't really use like the F word and stuff like that. Cause ass. Ass is my favorite cuss word. Like that. If you if ever there was a cuss word, ass. If someone says I said ass, I said it. But depending on the other words, be like, mm-hmm I don't know. She don't really use those words. So the chicken scratch handwriting, and I'm gonna read it exactly as it said, quote, I murder so that I may come back. The other note said, We did murder Martine Brown. Fuck off, you bastard. The third note read, fuck off, we murder. Watch out, fannies and faggots. What now why would y'all say that? That was not even a nice word to use. The final note was the most complex note reading. You are mice. Why? Because we murdered Martin. Go brown. You bet look there. You bet look out. There are murders. about to be by fanny and faggots you screws. End quote. Mary should have taken the time she spent killing to focus on reading, writing, and comprehension, because none of that made sense. And Mary, you need to get your mouth washed out with soap, because why would you be using those words? The police, upon searching the school, tell the staff, listen, this is just a horrible vandalization. I think it's best that you install a security system. It's it's just a prank. This has nothing to do with the murder of Martin Brown. Just get a security system installed and we'll take care of the rest, okay? A few days after Martin's death on May twenty ninth, nineteen sixty eight, June is at home grieving, you know, she just lost her baby when she hears a knock at the door. And so she opens the door to find Mary and Norma standing there. And so they ask her, they're just like, Hey, Miss June, is Martin like, can we see Martin? And she just like takes this deep breath and she's just like, I don't know what you've heard, but Martin's dead. And Mary looks at June and she's just like, I know. I wanted to see his body in the coffin. And June slammed the door in Mary's face. I'm not even gonna hold you. I would have slammed Mary's body on the ground repeatedly because are you dumb? I mean, I know she's ten, but I fight kids. And she was talking about her child. Like I feel like any act of violence would have been it would have been warranted in this moment. Like she just lost her baby and you come into her house asking if you could see her baby in the coffin, girl, I will smack you. But this is not about me. But I would have knocked Mary's teeth clean out her mouth and dragged her back to her mother's house. And I'd have like, Is this your kid? Cause I fight kids. But this is not about me. So school is still going on. School's getting ready to let out for the summer. And Mary had begun threatening her classmates at this point and telling them, like, I killed Martin Brown. Like I will basically I would knock all y'all off. Like she was very and they believed her. They were just like, Hey, we believe that you did it. You don't have to worry about me. I'm not going to try you anymore. So summer break comes along and Mary and Norma, they're relatively quiet, minus the one time police found them trying to break into the nursery again. But June was a quiet month. They didn't really get into any trouble. And most of July they kind of, you know, laid low and kept to themselves. So now it's July thirty-first, nineteen sixty-eight, and three-year-old Brian Howe decides it's a beautiful day, the sun is shining, it's a great day to be a three-year-old boy. I'm gonna go play outside. And that he did. So he heads outside, he's with one of his siblings and their family dog named Lassie. And of course, as luck would have it, or as maybe misfortune would have it, Mary and Norma are playing outside at the same time. So the group begins playing together. And at some point during this interaction, but before the afternoon time, you know, Brian's sibling goes inside and they're just like, Hey, I'm gonna take the dog back inside. It's kinda hot out here, you know. And I'm assuming it's hot. I've never been to England. I know it's like cold there a lot. I'm just going to assume in July it's hot. So I hope I'm right. I hope I'm right. And so, you know, his sibling goes inside and they're just like, Hey, Brian, are you gonna go inside too? And he's just like, No, I'm thinking gonna play out here a little bit longer and they're like cool we'll play out here a little bit longer with you so the group is outside playing and they wander off to another abandoned location and according to no norma Mary snapped at this point Mary begins torturing Brian and she holds him down and she begins slashing his legs with a razor blade. She then takes a pair of broken scissors and starts just cutting off chunks of his hair just random chunks of his hair. As if that's not enough. Mary then pulls down his pants and cuts and this is gonna be graphic. I'm so sorry. She pulls down his pants and cuts the skin of his scrotum off. And she then Pinches Brian's nose closed and uses her other hand to place around his neck to choke him. After Brian takes his last breath, Mary carves the letter into his stomach, and she and Norma place Brian's body between two large blocks and haphazardly cover him with like grass, dirt, weeds. They drop the scissors, they then skip to Lilu back to their neighborhood. So by this time, Brian's family is just like, it's getting late and Brian's not home. And so they're out searching for Brian when Mary and Norma come skipping up. And so they're just like, Hey, have you guys have you seen Brian? I know we were playing earlier. And they both are like, No, Brian, I haven't seen him. Never knew him. I don't know. But we'll help you look for him, you know? We can do that. And so they start helping the family look for him. Around eleven ten PM, a search party found Brian's body right where Mary and Norma put it and they notify the police to come over. So the police come over to the scene and they discover what they call a quote deliberate but feeble attempt to conceal Brian's body. They take note of some gray and maroon fibers on Brian's body, the shallow carved into his stomach, the broken scissors by his feet, discoloration of his lips consistent with loss of oxygen, and scratches and wounds around his neck. The one thing that stood out to them though, they were just like there's not really a whole lot of force that was used to subdue Brian. So his killer has to be a small person because th there's nothing like I mean, even the scratches aren't that deep. Like this is all very surface level. His killer has to be either a very weak person or a very small person. It's likely another child. Over one hundred detectives were assigned to Brian's case and more than twelve hundred children were questioned between August first and August second about their whereabouts the day that Brian went missing. Norma and Mary were included in the questioning. And when questioned, the police described Norma as excitable. They said she was kind of like just very animated, very it's like she was putting on a show in a way. But they said Mary was pretty calm and tactful. Both girls did admit to playing with Brian on the day of his disappearance, but they said they had not seen him after lunchtime. On August third, Mary was brought back in for questioning after more people pointed to her and Norma as the last two people to be seen with Brian alive. This time Mary stated that she remembered seeing an eight-year-old local boy playing with Brian on the afternoon of his disappearance. So they're just like, hey, can you tell us anything more? She said, you know, as a matter of fact, you know that boy that lives down the way? I saw him playing with Brian the afternoon of his disappearance. Like I saw him hitting Brian and I saw him covering him with grass and weeds and he looked like he had been rolling around in a field when I saw him the next time. And I saw he had these scissors in his hand. They were like a small pair of scissors, and I saw him trying to cut a cat's tail off with them, but there was something wrong with the scissors. Like one of the legs on the scissors was broken or bent. And so the detective that was questioning her, his name was Detective James Dobson. He's taken aback by this point because he's like in his head, he's like, We don't say nothing about the scissors being found near Brian's body. It's not a fact that was released to the public. Furthermore, the boy in question already had a rock solid alibi because him and his family were going on holiday. So he was at the airport with tons of witnesses on the day in question and his alibi checked out. So he follows it in his head, like, okay, Mary's lying and she knows more than she's letting on. But he just kind of releases her and goes from there. And so the next day on August 4th, 2026, Norma baby, she is at home. And I'm telling you, it's always one. Every time I see these stories, if it's more than one person, there's always one person who's just like fighting with their demons. Like they are wrecked by what they had done and they just cannot keep a secret. And so Norma's at home and she is, I mean, swinging with her demons, baby. And so she goes downstairs and she's like, Mom, Dad, I want to tell you about what we did. Well, I want to tell you about what Mary did. And so her parents call the police and they inform them that Norma has information about Brian's death that she would like to confess. So Detective Dobson heads out to their home and speaks with Norma. The house, Norma tells him that Mary had taken her out to a spot near the Tin Lizzie waste ground where she showed her Brian's body. She went on to say that Mary told her that she enjoyed strangling Brian and that she showed her the razor blade used to scratch the into his stomach. Norma led the police back to the crime scene to recover the razor blade and drew a picture of the wounds to Brian's body, which matched exactly with the coroner's report. Norma also confessed that Brian's dog Lassie had followed them, but they shooed him away. On August 5th, 1968, the police show up to Mary's house and they confront her. They're just like, listen, Norma told us everything. And Mary is just like, I know you lying because there is no way. Like Norma doesn't know what she's talking about because I did not do this. And so she accuses Detective Dobson. She's like, you are trying to brainwash a confession out of me. And she ended the exchange telling him that she's going to get out of this. And she's going to find a solicitor to help her. And so the police at this point, they're like, listen, we're clearly not dealing with a normal 11 year old. And they go back to Norma, like, listen, we need to find something solid because Mary's denying everything. And you're the one with all the information. So we need more. And so Norma at this point breaks down and she's just like, Okay, I was there when it happened. The Maroon, like, this is what I was wearing. And they did. She had on like this maroon skirt, and so they matched the fibers from her skirt to the fibers that were found on Brian. And so they're just like, okay, well, what was Mary wearing? And she's like, she had on a gray dress. And they're just like, aha, got her. And so they're just like, All right, we just gotta get that dress and we need to test it. And so they retrieved the dress that Mary was wearing on July 31st and they tested it against the fibers found on Brian's body, and they were an exact match. Brian's funeral was was held on August seventh, nineteen sixty-eight, with over two hundred guests, including Detective Dobson in attendance. So as Brian's coffin was brought out of his parents' home, and I don't know if this was just customary for the time or if this is how, you know, funerals are held in England, but Brian's body was in, you know, it was in the coffin in his family home. And so the funeral goers, they're kind of lined up outside of the Howe residence. Waiting for them to bring Brian's body out and waiting to follow the funeral procession to the church or to the gravesite or whatever. And so Detective Dobson, he's standing there and he noticed Mary standing in the sidelines. I mean cackling, rubbing her hands together like Birdman, peeking at Brian's body and laughing. And so he said, quote, she stood there laughing. laughing and rubbing her hands. I thought, My God, I've got to bring her in. She'll do another one. And so he goes through the funeral. They go through burying Brian. And that evening at 8 p.m., deta Detective Dobson goes to Mary and he arrests her. And as Mary was taken in, she says, you know what? That's all right by me. Norma was arrested right after Mary and baby Norma was in shambles. You hear me? She was crying and wailing and my gosh, I can't like she was I mean, par for the course, right? Like you're being arrested for murder of a child. Like, yeah. Be in shambles, honey, please. Mary, girl. So at the station, Mary provided a written confession that she was there when Brian was killed, but she completely placed the blame on Norma. While awaiting trial, Mary was evaluated by four psychiatrists and was determined to have psychopathic personality disorder. Now, psychopathic personality disorder is defined as a personality construct characterized by impaired empathy and remorse and persistent antisocial behavior, along with bold, disinhibited, and egocentric traits. These traits are often masked by superficial charm and immunity to stress, which create an outward appearance of normality. So basically, Mary was crazy. Like Mary, even though she was cool on the outside and calm and collected, underneath Baby Girl was hotter than a crack spoon. She was hotter than what are the things called? She was hotter than contents under pressure. She was hotter than a pressure cooker. Like Mary was not the one to be toyed with. Even though she portrayed herself to be a normal, sweet eleven-year-old girl, she had an entirely Different personality underneath that mask. On December 5th, 1968, Mary and Norma were tried together before Justice Ralph Cusack, who waived both girls' right to anonymity based on their age. He's like, Nope, the people gonna hear about this and they're gonna know about this child and they're gonna know exactly who did it. Mary was represented by Harvey Robson, and Norma was represented by attorney R.P. Smith. The prosecution led by Rudolph Lyon started with a six Our opening statement in which he painted Mary as the mastermind despite Norma being older. He also pointed out similarities in the deaths of Martin and Brian, concluding that both deaths were performed by the same person. He ended his statement saying that even though he believes Mary's the mastermind, both girls acted together and were equally at fault, killing both children solely for the pleasure and excitement of murder. And then he went on to say both girls knew good and damn well, my words, not his, what they were doing. And that it was wrong and what the results would be. On day five of trial, Norma was called to the stand to testify, and Norma once again denied everything. She did admit though that she knew Mary had an affinity for violence and that they often talked about killing small children. She swore that she never laid a hand on Brian or Martin. Now, Martin I do believe, because she was not there, she was not seen like nobody ever saw her playing with Martin, like they pretty much were just like she was not there. But your fibers were on Brian, so you had to have touched him. Your skirt fibers were on him. I personally, matter of fact, I'm gonna get into that later. On the seventh day of trial, on the seventh day of trial, Mary said to me, Mary was called to the stand and she too denied everything. Her testimony lasted four hours, and she was questioned on why she went to Martin's house to ask to see his body. And she was just like, I was dared to do it. Like, you guys have been 10. You guys have been 11. Have you never acted on a dare? Mary was too smart for her own damn good, I promise you. So after denying everything, she went on to place the blame solely on Norma. And so they were just like, okay, well, if Norma did this, why didn't you say anything? She said, Listen, I protected Norma out of fear. And out of loyalty. Like at the end of the day, that's my girl. She's like a big sister. And I'm sure Norma was looking over there like, girl, don't big sis me. You got me into this mess. Norma's mother was called to the stand where she testified to Mary's violent past, admitting that she had caught Mary strangling her youngest daughter on one occasion. And baby, had I walked in there and found Mary strangling my daughter, Mary would have been the next person strangled. She went on to say that Mary had only released her grip on their daughter's throat after her husband had punched Mary in the shoulder. A child psychiatrist named Ian Frazier then testified that Norma's mental age was about eight years old, and that even though Norma knew right from wrong, she did not really understand fully what she was doing and what she was getting herself into. On December thirteenth, Norma's defense counsel RP Smith started his closing argument. He said that although both girls were on trial together, they didn't have anything on Norma. He's just like, we know Mary did it. Like, Mary crazy. Like, you have all these people over these nine days telling y'all that Mary is unhinged. They have said nothing of the such about Norma. And so he asked the jurors to suppress the feelings of outrage and to dispel any idea that both little girls pay for the actions that only one of them committed. Harvey Robson Which is Mary's defense, he then delivered his closing argument. And he basically said, You know what? Mary's a lot of things. But Mary was groomed to be a lot of things. She was prostituted at the age of four, left alone at the age of four. The one person in this world that she felt love and care from was carted off to prison. And she was left with a monster who abused her and neglected her. And sold her to men to which she saw none of the profit. He said that Mary, her mind is distorted. And it's true because there's this, I'm not gonna say it's true, because I don't know Mary, but I would say that there is this lady that I really admire. Her name is Tereka Lynn Smith. And I went to a conference one time and she too, like her mom sold her body for drug money. when she was five. And she said that when those interactions was happening, she would kind of displace herself. So she would start going into like this fantasyland. She called it Terryland. And in Terryland, she was the queen. And as she was being abused, she was able to kind of just dissociate and just be in Terryland while these men were taking advantage of her. So basically what, you know, Mary's attorney was saying is that because she had to do that, because she spent her childhood dissociating from reality because her life was so bad that the difference between fantasy and reality in her mind are so blurred that yes, she may have done this, but she was acting out on a fantasy. And her fantasy was to harm people. And because it's a fantasy in her head, she does not realize the effects of acting out on these things. Because you can do a lot in a fantasy. I mean how many of us Are on GTA stealing cars and all that stuff. That's fantasy. But to people who dissociate regularly, those lines can be blurred. And, you know, he kind of ate with that one. So he also referenced the testimony of David Westbury, who had testified that he had interviewed Mary on several occasions prior and realized that she had a serious personality disorder and she, you know, wasn't really there. And Again, they said that this was caused both by genetics because her mom wasn't, you know, but also environmental because of her mom. And so because Mary didn't quite understand what she was doing, allegedly, her actual responsibility should really fall lower than that of someone who fully knew what they were doing. The notes that they left at the nursery were also brought up in trial and Mary's attorney used the notes to say, like, look at this, like this is a childish fantasy, like Mary's saying here that this is what she wants to do. This is what she dreams of doing. But what is the difference between dream and reality, right? In his closing argument, prosecutor Rudolph Lyons described the case as macabre and grotesque. He said that Mary basically had more intelligence than Norma, who was of subnormal intelligence. And he said, quote, I forecast to you that the younger girl, although two years and two months younger than the other, was nevertheless the cleverer and more dominating personality. To back up his claims, he stated numerous lies that Mary had told the police, including saying, like, hey, you're not about to get a confession out of me and I'll get a solicitor to defend me. What ten year old talks like that? What eleven year old talks like it sorry, she was eleven. She had just had a birthday. Throughout the trial, Mary and Norma were either said to be laughing or Norma would be crying hysterically while Mary seemed detached from the gravity of what she was going through. Mary and Norma's trial lasted a total of nine days and on december seventeenth, nineteen sixty eight, jury deliberations began. The jury went out to deliberate for just under three and a half hours when they reached their verdict. Norma's verdict was read first and she was acquitted of all charges. Mary was up next, and in the case of murder, she was found not guilty. However, the jury did find her guilty of manslaughter. When the verdict was read, Mary Mary's mother and grandmother broke down and began trying uncontrollably. And I'm just like, girl, Betty, what are you crying for? Because where were you when your child was out killing people? Where were you when men were sexually abusing your child? Where were you when you were tying up your child for men to sexually abuse her? Where were you when you gave your child an entire bottle of sleeping pills because you simply did not feel like dealing with her? Go to hell, respectfully. And girl, please. Upon sentencing, Justice Cusack described Mary as a quote, dangerous individual. adding that she posed a very grave risk to other children, and she was sentenced to life in Her Majesty's pleasure. At the time of her sentencing, Mary was 11 years and six months old, making her the youngest female killer in Britain's history. A title that she still holds to this very day. Which brings me to where are they now? Mary was held at several different facilities over the years, including the Durham Remand Home and Red Bank Special Unit. Where she was the only female offender in custody. When asked if that would deprive her socially, the judge was like, who cares? She wasn't a social person when she was on the outside, and she got bigger issues to deal with, like that personality of hers. After she accused one of her fellow inmates of sexual abuse, she was moved to a secure wing of the HM prison style in 1973, and then moved again to the Moore Court Prison in 1977, where she and another inmate, Annette Priest, Successfully escaped, and baby, they went out and lived their best lives while they were out. They found boyfriends. Mary dyed her hair blonde because she was a natural brunette. They were seen at amusement parks and hotels. They were seen out partying. And then they were apprehended at the home of the same boy that they had been with. Mary was released in 1980 at the age of 23. While in custody, she wrote a now famous letter to her mother which read, Quote, Please, ma'am, put my tiny mind at ease. Tell judge and jury on your knees. They will listen to your cry of please. The guilty one is you, not me. I am sorry it has to be this way. We'll both cry and you will go away. Tell them you are guilty, please. So then, ma'am, I'll be free. Your daughter, May. I forgot to tell y'all earlier that her family and very close friends called her May. To everybody else, she was Mary. After her release, she was, you guessed it, as child offenders are. She was granted with a new identity and she ran with it. Man, I tell you what, back in the day, I feel like new identities were handed out like government cheese, like you get a new identity, you get a new identity, you get a new identity. Like they were giving them out. Mary did give birth to a daughter in 1984. And the two lived pretty quietly until nineteen ninety eight when Mary's location was leaked and the media had a field day with her, causing she and her daughter to move apparently to the coast. Shortly after, she teamed up with authorist, Gita Cerny, and they wrote a book called Cries Unheard, The Story of Mary Bell, which is where a lot of this information came from. When asked about her crime, Mary said that at the time she didn't realize wanting the boys dead would mean they would never return to their parents. She thought that they would just stop. Pass away for a little bit, then come back. In May 2003, she petitioned the court to have her daughter's identity placed under anonymity as well. Mary did win this case, and the two were never heard from publicly again. I tried to find information on Norma Bell, but I could not verify anything. There is a Norma Bell of Scotswood that died of cancer in nineteen eighty nine, but I don't know if it's the same person. Which brings me to my final thoughts. My final thoughts are why do y'all always go for the victims that can't defend themselves? My final thoughts are When I started this show, I did it because I am the type of person that and much to my detriment right now, but I like have to have an answer. Like I am not good with things just being the way they are. I have to find reason. I have to find an answer. And I just wanted to get into the minds of like what would make a child. Because when I look at children, to me, I'm like children are innocent. They still have so much work to do. They still have so much learning to do. They still have so much life to live. So when kids do things like this, I'm often like, what was going on in your mind? You know? Now with Mary, she was predisposed to violence. And that doesn't make it right, but that is it made it normal to her. one of the articles I read said that violence in Mary's life was like saying a grace before dinner. Like it was just like violence in Mary's life was like, Hey, what are we gonna eat today? Violence in Mary's life was just it was just so normalized because of what she had been through with her mom and her dad and these men. And so violence begets more violence. I do wonder though, like why Norma's mom If you found her in there, and this is not to victim blame at all, I this is genuinely a question. Because there is no way to me that somebody is gonna come into my house, eat my snacks, and strangle my child, and then y'all just go back to playing like it never happened. I'll be damned. I would have dragged Mary by her hair over to her mom's house and say, Hey, she is no longer welcome in my house. And if I find her near my child again, I'm pressing charges. Or I'm gonna beat her ass. One of the two will happen. I might beat her ass and then press charges. Like, don't, we're not doing this. But again, a lot of people aren't like me. My mom raised me this way. Because my mom is the same way. I have seen my mom beat some ass over the course of my life. So that's why I am the way I am. And so, you know, as much as I try not to be my mom, I have to admit to the parts of me that are very much like my mom. And so I think. in Mary's case because she was just so predisposed to violence, it just normalized it for her. But it just, I'm like, yes, but killing, strangling kids, like, I just don't get it. And I think that is the hardest thing that I'm learning in this current season of my life is just being okay with not having answers. But like I'm naturally inquisitive. I'm naturally curious. I naturally like I have to figure things out. And researching these cases, I'm like, I just I don't I I still am no closer to understanding what would make a person do these things. And maybe it's just not meant for me to know because if I understood, child, maybe I, you know what I'm saying? Anyway, that is our show. Follow me on TikTok, Minor Mischief Pod on Instagram, Minor Mischief Podcast. Thank you to those who have followed the show, subscribe to the show. It means so much to me from the very bottom of my heart. If you ever want to chat, ever want a Kiki, ever have a case suggestion where you're just like, I feel like Kiana would do a great job at telling the story, email me minormischiefpodcast at gmail.com. Please, guys, leave a review, review the show, leave a comment. Help me. Help me. help me. Please. I ain't too proud to beg. Please leave a review. Write a comment like. Help me, okay? I'm working on marketing the show and I just need just a tiny push from you all if that's okay. It's free. It's free. And matter of fact, I might do like a raffle or something. Like, hey, everybody who leaves a comment in the month of August. Matter of fact, yes, I'm gonna do a raffle. Everybody who leaves a comment in the month of August or writes a review in the month of August, I will enter your name into a raffle and I'm gonna give you a prize at the end of the month. Let's let's let's up the ante a little bit, you know? But thank you guys. Thank you for hanging out with me this hour. I know that there's so many other things that you'd rather be doing in your day, so thank you for spending this time with me. And I'll see you guys the same day of the week next week. And until then, stay mischievous, friends.