Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #93 Unmotivated Teen

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#93 Unmotivated Teen · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's a Happy Families podcast with doctor Justin Kilson, where
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  Speaker 1: Luke and Susie parents of three little boys, and this
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  Speaker 1: is the podcast for those of us who are time
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  Speaker 1: poor parents, but just one answers now.
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  Speaker 2: Our next guest is a doctor of psychology who writes
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  Speaker 2: for The New York Times and is featured in Sydney's
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  Speaker 2: Daily Telegraph, The Project, The Today Show and of course
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  Speaker 2: The Luke and Susie Radio Show. A closet middle aged
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  Speaker 2: man in lycra and our family and parenting expert from
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  Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot Are you please welcome? Father
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  Speaker 2: of six daughters, Dr Justin Kilson.
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  Speaker 3: And one son in law.
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  Speaker 4: That's right, Yes, I'll send one of my children out
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  Speaker 4: of the home already. And I'm feeling like, well, there's
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  Speaker 4: more space in any number of ways, yeah, even psychologically.
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  Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's huge. Okay, we'll get to Craig's question shortly.
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  Speaker 3: But you are us a dad joke?
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  Speaker 4: Well I do. I hope that you won't mind this one. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: it made me laugh a lot when I heard it.
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  Speaker 4: I used to date a girl who loved to be
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  Speaker 4: covered in cheese cracker. All right, I love your face.
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  Speaker 4: You didn't say anything about that one.
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  Speaker 2: No, I love I love dad jokes, and then they
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  Speaker 2: get told Craig said a question to the show, You say, Craig,
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  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it's my sister. And they asked this
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  Speaker 2: question just before they dished off the then seventeen year
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  Speaker 2: old son to us.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, when is the right time to tell your kids
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  Speaker 3: you're old enough to fend for yourself, you need to
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  Speaker 3: leave the house, especially if they're not motivated to get
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  Speaker 3: a job.
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  Speaker 4: What do you think, Well, I think we should go
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  Speaker 4: back a little bit now. Obviously for Craig it might
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  Speaker 4: be too late, but for those who don't have children
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  Speaker 4: who are quite there, let's start there and then we'll
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  Speaker 4: move to Craig if that's okay. So I think that
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  Speaker 4: you start young. You want to have all of the
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  Speaker 4: hard conversations with your children about intimacy, about some of
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  Speaker 4: the ugly things in life, about alcohol and all that
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  Speaker 4: kind of stuff before they're too about moving out, before
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  Speaker 4: they are too they won't understand a word that you've
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  Speaker 4: said it, but you get practicing saying it good, You
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  Speaker 4: get your stories straight so that when you have to
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  Speaker 4: deliver it land anyway, I think that we want to
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  Speaker 4: start young. And this is what I recommend to parents.
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  Speaker 4: Starts to teach responsibility young so that they're ready to
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  Speaker 4: move out at any time, seven thirteen, whatever it is.
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  Speaker 4: But you want to start teaching them those basics young.
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  Speaker 4: They need to know how to do the chores. And
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  Speaker 4: some people are saying, oh, I try to do the chores,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, I end up in a fight with
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  Speaker 4: the kids, or chaws never get done. We've got this
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  Speaker 4: choor chart that's got three stars on it, and that
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  Speaker 4: was in twenty seventeen and we haven't put another star
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  Speaker 4: on it since. I think we've got to do a
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  Speaker 4: couple of things to get those chores happening. First of all,
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  Speaker 4: we want to make it relational. That is, our children
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  Speaker 4: are usually happy to do things with us, but they
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  Speaker 4: don't like being told to do things on their own,
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  Speaker 4: especially when they're younger. So spend the time teaching them
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  Speaker 4: and involving yourself with it. You might say it's going
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  Speaker 4: to take too long, but it'll actually speed it up
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  Speaker 4: because think about how much time you say you spend
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  Speaker 4: saying would you please go and do that for the
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  Speaker 4: fifteenth time, and then the tears and the drama, and
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  Speaker 4: you end up going and doing yourself anyway because they
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  Speaker 4: haven't done it properly. I think that the other thing
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  Speaker 4: that you want to do is make sure that when
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  Speaker 4: it comes to chores, I'm going to say that they
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  Speaker 4: need to be cost neutral.
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  Speaker 3: So no's got money for chores.
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  Speaker 4: Don't pay for chores.
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 4: Now, I know that Scott paid for the Barefoot Investor
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  Speaker 4: has a slightly different opinion on that, and many people
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  Speaker 4: who have read his Barefoot Investor for Families, and he says,
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  Speaker 4: you know, he's got this little system for paying for chores.
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  Speaker 4: For me, I just think that chores are part of
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  Speaker 4: being in our family. You know, you make the mess
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  Speaker 4: with us and you clean the mess up with us.
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  Speaker 2: Because there's two there's two schools with thought. There's they've
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  Speaker 2: got to learn that this is just no one gets
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  Speaker 2: paid for this. We don't do it because we get paid.
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  Speaker 2: It's just living a grown up sort of as you
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  Speaker 2: grow up. This is a part of responsibility. On the
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  Speaker 2: other hand, there is a principle to prepare them for
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  Speaker 2: the working life, where you do some work you get paid.
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  Speaker 2: But you can teach that one in another area of life.
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  Speaker 4: Well, you can teach that when they're fourteen and nine
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  Speaker 4: months and they go and get a job. Yeah yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I mean I kind of do struggle the fence a
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  Speaker 4: little bit with my kids have got chores to do,
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  Speaker 4: They've got stuff that has to be done. But we
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  Speaker 4: also pay them for some of the big jobs, like
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  Speaker 4: if I ask them to go and washing vacum the
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  Speaker 4: car for example, if I've got to I'm not going
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  Speaker 4: to do it. So if I'm going to do it,
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  Speaker 4: it's going to go through a car wash, and I'm
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  Speaker 4: going to pay fifteen dollars for it. So I'd rather
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  Speaker 4: just give the kids the fifteen dollars and let them
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  Speaker 4: do it. I still have to take it through the
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  Speaker 4: car wash sometimes with that other story, But we also
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  Speaker 4: want to make chores fun because the more fun they are,
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  Speaker 4: the more likely the kids will be involved. Now this
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  Speaker 4: is where we move from younger kids to older kids.
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  Speaker 4: Let's say they're now old enough for a job. I
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  Speaker 4: encourage parents to get their children to pay board. All
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  Speaker 4: of my children pay board as soon as they've got
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  Speaker 4: a job, and we work it out as a percentage.
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  Speaker 4: So some parents have set our ten percent, twenty percent,
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  Speaker 4: whatever it is, but the children pay board because that's
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  Speaker 4: what you do when you move out, you pay rent,
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  Speaker 4: you've got you've got a cost of living expense. We
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  Speaker 4: don't need their four dollars a week or their twelve
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  Speaker 4: dollars a week or whatever. It ends up being. What
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  Speaker 4: we do with it, though, is we stick it into
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  Speaker 4: a little account that we've set up that they don't
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  Speaker 4: know about. I know it's being about right now, but
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  Speaker 4: my kids an't going to hear this.
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  Speaker 2: I hope listen to our show.
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  Speaker 4: And then when they get to when they get to
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  Speaker 4: a certain age, actually they do every now and again.
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  Speaker 4: They come home as a dad. I heard you on
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  Speaker 4: the radio today. I've got to be careful what I say.
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  Speaker 4: But when they get to a certain age. In the
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  Speaker 4: case of our oldest daughter, when she got married, we
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  Speaker 4: sat down with her and her new husband and said, oh,
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  Speaker 4: by the way, here's this bank account that's now yours,
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  Speaker 4: and here's all that money that you paid us in board.
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  Speaker 4: And she said, oh, I should have paid you properly,
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  Speaker 4: shouldn't I. But what we've done is we've taught her
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  Speaker 4: this life lesson, so she expects it now when we
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  Speaker 4: get to the big kids. Which is really answering Craig's question,
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  Speaker 4: there's a couple of things that I think are really
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  Speaker 4: important to get to the you know, to get to
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  Speaker 4: the guts of what he's asking.
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  Speaker 3: When is it the right time to tell your kids
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  Speaker 3: you're old enough to fend for yourself, you need to
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  Speaker 3: leave the house, especially if they're not motivated to get
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  Speaker 3: a job.
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  Speaker 4: So I've given advice on this topic many times over
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  Speaker 4: the years, but it was only in the last couple
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  Speaker 4: of years that my oldest got to that point, and
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  Speaker 4: I had the privilege the experience of going through that
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  Speaker 4: with her. She finished high school, she started university. It
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  Speaker 4: wasn't going well for her. She was unhappy there. It
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  Speaker 4: was a long commute, she wasn't interested or passionate in
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  Speaker 4: what she was studying at all. And one day she
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  Speaker 4: came to me said, Dad, I think I need to
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  Speaker 4: quit UNI now for the guy that's got the PhD
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  Speaker 4: and teaches people how to raise great kids. I was crushed. No,
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  Speaker 4: this can't happen to me, But this story is illustrative
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  Speaker 4: of what I got to practice what I preach. So
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  Speaker 4: I said to her, you will finish the semester and
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  Speaker 4: you will pass. And so we kind of worked through that.
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  Speaker 4: But by the time we ground our way to the
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  Speaker 4: end of semester, we'd had another couple of conversations and
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  Speaker 4: I said, I think a gap year is a good idea.
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  Speaker 4: In fact, I've really become a fan of the gap year,
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  Speaker 4: not just for her, but with so many parents that
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  Speaker 4: I've spoken to who said it was so important for
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  Speaker 4: my child to grow up and have that gap year.
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  Speaker 4: But this is what I believe about a gap year.
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  Speaker 4: A few years ago, Premier Peter Beatty had this phrase
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  Speaker 4: that he used for young peace people. He said, our
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  Speaker 4: young people need to either be earning or learning. And
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  Speaker 4: so when my eldest said, so, I think I'm just
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  Speaker 4: going to go and keep on working part time down
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  Speaker 4: at the local cafe and hashtag cafe life. I will
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  Speaker 4: work fifteen hours a week and I'm just going to
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  Speaker 4: go to some music festivals and say I have it's
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  Speaker 4: some money and do some travel. I said, no, that's
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  Speaker 4: not how it will work. If you want to stay
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  Speaker 4: living in my home, you'll be working full time, or
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  Speaker 4: you'll be studying full time. You'll be earning or learning,
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  Speaker 4: and it's full time. And we went backwards and forwards
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  Speaker 4: on this for a couple of days because she was
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  Speaker 4: really put out You're like, you can't do that, and
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  Speaker 4: I said, actually I can, because I've raised you to
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  Speaker 4: have that expectation. I said, you're welcome to stay here,
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  Speaker 4: but my children have also been told once you start
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  Speaker 4: paying bored, please know that when you're eighteen, I no
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  Speaker 4: longer have a financial responsibility for you. And I think
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  Speaker 4: that every parent should say this to their kids. If
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  Speaker 4: you're earning, you don't need me to be financially responsible
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  Speaker 4: for you. If you're learning, you're welcome to stay in
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  Speaker 4: our home, and we'll continue to provide the basics that
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  Speaker 4: we've been providing. But we're not going to buy your clothes.
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  Speaker 4: We're not going to buy your take out, when going
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  Speaker 4: to pay for you to go to the movies with
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  Speaker 4: your friends or do any of you extra career. We're
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  Speaker 4: not going to pay for that stuff. You can stay
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  Speaker 4: in your room and have the essentials that we're contributing anyway,
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  Speaker 4: but that's it. No more financial responsibility for you. You're
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  Speaker 4: doing it on your own. I'm watching families practice what
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  Speaker 4: I've shared and then seeing my own daughter go through that.
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  Speaker 4: She went and got a job, and I've got to
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  Speaker 4: be honest. I say this with the greatest of respect,
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  Speaker 4: because I know that people do honorable work no matter
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  Speaker 4: what they're doing. She went and got a job that
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  Speaker 4: was hard work. She got a job doing what you
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  Speaker 4: would probably call menial labor. And I say that again
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  Speaker 4: with great respect. We need people to do all kinds
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  Speaker 4: of jobs, and we're grateful that they have jobs. But
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  Speaker 4: she went and got one of one of those jobs.
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  Speaker 4: She's been doing it for a year and a half.
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  Speaker 4: But now that she's had that job for a year
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  Speaker 4: and a half, she's excited about going back to school.
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  Speaker 4: She came to recently said Dad, I've enrolled. I'm going
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  Speaker 4: back to school next year because I would like to
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  Speaker 4: do other things with my life other than this. I
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  Speaker 4: think that there are other things. I don't think we
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  Speaker 4: want to send our kids to university. University is adults,
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  Speaker 4: not children. We don't send our children to university. So,
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  Speaker 4: to move back to Craig's question, that's the conversation that
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  Speaker 4: you have, you pay board, you're earning or learning, or
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  Speaker 4: you find somewhere else that we have. Plenty of your
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  Speaker 4: friends have got couches that you can sleep on. How
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  Speaker 4: comfortable is that going to be? How much would it
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  Speaker 4: cost you to live elsewhere? Easier choices, and then you
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  Speaker 4: give them a timeframe. We need a decision by the
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  Speaker 4: end of next week or an end of next month,
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  Speaker 4: or by the end of the year. But once we
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  Speaker 4: kick off twenty twenty or whenever it is, that's where
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  Speaker 4: we're going.
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  Speaker 2: From my perspective, Like, you've got this concept of a
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  Speaker 2: teenager who's not motivated to get a job, and how
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  Speaker 2: from your experience much of you've seen that that's because
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  Speaker 2: they've got a poor work ethic or they're taking you
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  Speaker 2: for granted, versus a concept of they don't know who
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  Speaker 2: they are and where they're going. They haven't found themselves,
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  Speaker 2: so yeah, they're lacking direction and they're therefore they're lacking motivation.
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  Speaker 2: Like how much is just a work ethic versus that
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  Speaker 2: concept of the kids that are supposed to be more
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  Speaker 2: grown up but they just don't haven't got themselves yet.
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  Speaker 4: Two responses. Number one, do the work, then find the inspiration.
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  Speaker 4: And number two, if you don't have a work ethic,
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  Speaker 4: you're not going to get it by sitting in your
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  Speaker 4: lands room thinking about what you should do with your life.
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  Speaker 4: Go out and get a job, go and get on
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  Speaker 4: with it. Start paying bored, Start contributing to the world.
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  Speaker 4: And as my daughter has discovered, you will find out
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  Speaker 4: fairly soon whether you're well suited to that job or not.
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  Speaker 4: And if you're not, then it's time. That's where the
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  Speaker 4: inspiration comes. Okay, I don't want to live this life.
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  Speaker 4: So what life do I want to live? What changes
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  Speaker 4: will I make? What courses will I enroll in? What
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  Speaker 4: people will I meet? What networking will I do? What
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  Speaker 4: opportunities will I pursue?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I remember when I was, and I
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  Speaker 2: was a bit younger than probably this question is based on.
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  Speaker 2: But I was. I was fifteen when my dad he
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  Speaker 2: just was at the end of his tether with me
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  Speaker 2: and he called me lazy.
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  Speaker 4: And he what parent hasn't said that to their fifteen
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  Speaker 4: year old at some point.
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  Speaker 2: But this was a full on confrontation. But anybody who
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  Speaker 2: knows me and has known me for any period of
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  Speaker 2: time would use a lot of words for me. And
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  Speaker 2: when it comes to work and work anything that's not
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  Speaker 2: one of them, there's a lot of other things they
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  Speaker 2: can throw. I wasn't lazy. I just didn't like doing
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  Speaker 2: his work. He was a truck driver, he was a farmer,
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  Speaker 2: he was a manual laborer, and there was nothing that
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  Speaker 2: could kill my soul more than that physical lifting and
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  Speaker 2: moving and so.
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  Speaker 4: But you got creative, right, Yes, you got creative because
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  Speaker 4: there was an expectation that you would get on with something.
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  Speaker 4: And that's really the point here. I mean my dad.
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  Speaker 4: My dad's a furniture removalist. He runs a furniture removals company.
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  Speaker 4: I guess you'd call that, you know, blue collar work.
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  Speaker 4: That would be meaning or labor. When I put myself
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  Speaker 4: through a university as a late twenties father of three
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  Speaker 4: and then four and then five, I did interstate furniture removals,
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  Speaker 4: a truck driving.
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  Speaker 2: Did I like it?
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  Speaker 1: No?
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  Speaker 4: Was it hard? Absolutely? But boy boy, did it teach
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  Speaker 4: me some lessons? And did I find the inspiration to
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  Speaker 4: do what I'm now doing? Because that heck here?
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  Speaker 2: So if we bring our nephew back into it. Our
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  Speaker 2: nephew contacted us and said can I come live with you?
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  Speaker 2: And we interviewed him before we were willing to say
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  Speaker 2: yes or nae no, and we asked a lot of
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  Speaker 2: questions and one of the questions was, you know, he
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  Speaker 2: was lacking motivation. He was exactly what this story was.
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  Speaker 2: And we said, so what makes you think it'll be
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  Speaker 2: different here, And he said, because I know that when
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  Speaker 2: I'm with mom and Dad, I just there's the tension
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  Speaker 2: and it's it's tense, but it's also well, I don't
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  Speaker 2: have to because they're just gonna, Like I know, subconsciously,
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  Speaker 2: there's this safety net. But I'm pretty confident that if
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  Speaker 2: I get out from that safety net that I will
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  Speaker 2: actually be more driven to take care of myself. And
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  Speaker 2: it's what's happened.
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  Speaker 4: So glad that you said that, though. I think as
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  Speaker 4: parents we've got to say I love you, but if
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  Speaker 4: you hear, you're earning a learning. Otherwise you're finding somewhere else.
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  Speaker 4: But if things go bad, don't ever be afraid to
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: call me I love you, I I'm here, but get
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: out or get on with work or get on with stuff.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well it's it's been a very valuable conversation and
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  Speaker 2: there's so much more we can talk about, as is
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  Speaker 2: always the case with doctor Justin Colson. Thank you so much,
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  Speaker 2: mate for your time.
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  Speaker 4: Great to be with you.
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  Speaker 3: To find out more info on all of Justin's books, podcasts,
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  Speaker 3: and program you can go online to Happy Families dot
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  Speaker 3: com dot au and to find out How to have
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: Justin come and speak at your school, organization, or event.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Go to justincultson dot com