Latest / The Future of Luxury Podcast with Dr Daniel Langer / #4 - Torsten Müller-Ötvös: Former CEO of Rolls-Royce Motorcars

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#4 - Torsten Müller-Ötvös: Former CEO of Rolls-Royce Motorcars · The Future of Luxury Podcast with Dr Daniel Langer

0:09
Welcome to the Future of Luxury podcast,
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where we explore the cutting edge of the luxury industry
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with the world's leading authority, Dr.
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Daniel Langer.
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Dr.
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Langer is the founder and CEO of Équité Brands,
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the world's leading brand strategy and activation firm
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and professor of luxury at Pepperdine University.
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Join us as we dive into trends shaping the future of luxury
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from millennial and gen z influence to digital disruption
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with unique perspectives shared from the world's most
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knowledgeable experts in the field.
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Brought to you by Équité Intelligence,
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the global leader in luxury strategy and brand innovation.
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This podcast is your backstage pass to the world of extreme
0:52
value creation and luxury's next big moves.
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So without further ado, Dr. Daniel Langer.
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So it's my great pleasure to,
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welcome to this episode of the podcast.
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I have to say, Torsten,
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I don't think that I saw said this personally to you yet,
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but I have to say an idol, of mine,
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and, Thorsten Müller-Ötvös,
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the former CEO of Rolls Royce Motorcars, of obviously,
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a company that doesn't even need an introduction and also
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personality that, doesn't need an introduction.
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And,
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Totive
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who was always the most consequent
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in thinking not just about the car, but, you know,
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also in being very transformative
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in thinking about,
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you know, not only what luxury really is,
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but what the storytelling behind
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the the the brand, should be.
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And, I I have used quite often the
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the example of, inspiring greatness,
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that you created, with with your team as, to me,
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a best in class example of how to
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make something that already is in a sense from a product
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perspective, the pinnacle of luxury,
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but also relevant and tangible.
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How to make a transformation from the previous generation of
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of owners who in many case,
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where there's still at least this was the myth,
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a chauffeured in their cars to, you know,
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people that really enjoy themselves driving such a
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wonderful vehicle.
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So it's my absolute pleasure to have you here today and,
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discuss with you.
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I think it's something that we are both very passionate about.
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Actually, two topics in at the same time.
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One is luxury, and the say the second is automotive.
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So welcome.
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Yeah.
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Thank you very much, Daniel,
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and thanks a lot for your kind words,
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but I can also replicate them in a way that I think you are
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known as one of the big, luxury thought leaders worldwide.
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So for that reason, I thought great to join your podcast,
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and I'm very much looking forward to our talks here.
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Yeah. Wonderful.
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And and, Torsten, maybe describe a little bit
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your, for for for everyone who who knows you,
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but maybe doesn't know all the details of your career.
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Maybe describe a little bit, in in a few words your career,
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but also, you know,
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maybe the transformation that you were able to initiate at
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Rolls Royce.
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Alright.
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Couple of words.
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I mean, I would consider myself being a brand aficionado,
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somebody who really understands branding, building brands,
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revitalizing brands.
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I was for a long, long time with the BMW Group,
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got the chance to revitalize MINI at times and relaunch
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MINI, and then was later asked, I mean,
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now nearly fifteen years, sixteen years ago,
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if I could imagine to take the helm at Rolls Royce Motor Cars.
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Oh, wow. Something, obviously, I didn't need to sleep on.
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I mean, that brand is world famous, as you said, Daniel.
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And it's a brand, by the way,
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that is the expression of luxury anyhow in itself.
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Yeah.
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Many use it as the TV or the Rolls Royce of TV
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sets or the Rolls Royce of kitchens or whatever.
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So when I came at times, and that was January twenty ten,
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I found a brand, and,
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the brand was already owned by the BMW Group that was,
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I would call it back at the pinnacle of automotive business.
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Mhmm.
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But probably not at levels where you see the brand today.
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Because when I joined, the brand was very much male,
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nearly hundred percent male,
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pretty much on a pedestal pedestal,
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so also perceived as arrogant, pretty conservative,
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slightly old fashioned.
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And, for that reason, in my view,
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a change was needed.
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And what I did at times,
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I interviewed a lot of private banks when I joined
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and just to find out more about our high net worth individuals.
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And there was quite some surprising overlap in their opinion,
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and that was they all predicted a pretty fundamental change in
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the demographics and psychographics of the ultra
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high net worth individuals.
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They would get far younger.
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Money will be made in new ways, different ways, digital,
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new business venture, less inherited money,
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far more females,
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casual behaviors would be name of the games,
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and they all are hungry to enjoy life.
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Spend the money and to enjoy life.
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And, also, enjoy life is for me that hunger for experiences.
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And to cut it short,
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it came exactly as they predicted in January and
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February twenty ten when I conducted all these interviews.
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But for me also,
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it became immediately obvious that this would require a
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fundamental change in the brand positioning and product
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strategy for Rolls Royce Motor Car.
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So in a nutshell, major steps at times,
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and during my time with Rolls Royce were that we did a
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systematic change in our client relations posture.
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So really lifting client centricity, Daniel,
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to an outstanding level.
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I'm I'm I'm fully convinced that this is super important in
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the luxury business,
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that you are extremely close with your clients,
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that you are basically reading their wishes before they even
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know their wishes.
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And, obviously, we also changed the brand identity,
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and we put you mentioned it already.
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We put inspiring greatness
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into the core of that brand identity.
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I mean, it's a big promise. Yeah.
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Inspiring greatness because everything you do needs to be
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inspiring greatness.
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But it worked extremely well, particularly funny enough with,
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a younger clients.
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And, that obviously then we complimented with a visual
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identity that also embodies that house of luxury aesthetics.
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Very important for me to get away from the typical
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automotive atmosphere into that house of luxury aesthetics.
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Then I'm a big believer in storytelling.
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I think people are hungry for Brian's stories.
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So the whole press and comms work was shifted into what I
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call a storytelling machine over times.
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And then, obviously, during my time,
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we also changed the model policy focusing on a far
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younger and self driving clientele.
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You said it.
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When I joined, eighty percent of all clients were sitting in the back,
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so being chauffeured.
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And after I left, it was exactly the opposite.
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Eighty percent were sitting behind the wheel,
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driving themselves, and twenty percent in the back.
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And that is also due to the fact that the clients became
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very, very young over time.
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Mhmm.
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Changed average age at times from fifty six when I joined,
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average age, down forty to forty three when I left.
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So it was a massive rejuvenating project,
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that happened here over nearly fifteen years.
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And I would say we were also able to add,
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the cool and must have factor to the brand,
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very important in particular with social media.
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So that was a great story and a great journey,
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I must say, obviously, not only out of my own brain,
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but together with my team.
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But at times, really a fundamental change in the brand perception.
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Wonderful.
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And, you know, you already mentioned
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you already mentioned, when when you spoke about the
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clients, how the clients have been changing and and how
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client expectations have have changed.
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Maybe let's elaborate a little bit on on that,
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and especially now if you think about the last the last couple of years,
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as you observe the clients and also as I know that you have
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been always very, very close to, to your clients,
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how would you describe, you know, from,
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if you if you take the error the error around maybe,
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you know, the early two thousands and and maybe to the
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transition to now,
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if you speak about if we speak about high net worth individuals,
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what would be maybe a few tangible things that that you
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have observed that that changed in their behaviors,
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in their aspirations?
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I would say, Daniel, when let let's say fifteen years ago,
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in my perception, luxury was still pretty much bling to call it like that.
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Yeah. Very status oriented.
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And, also, I call it off the shelf. Yeah.
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You were just shopping something.
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And luxury brands were simply just a symbol of exclusivity and status.
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And the more expensive, the higher the status, basically.
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Very easy, very simple.
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And that has obviously not gone away,
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but was enriched massively over time with things,
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like importance of craftsmanship,
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importance of storytelling,
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new levels of customer centricity,
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engaging clients, taking clients into a journey with
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your brand, giving clients the chance to see behind the
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curtain of your brand,
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understanding how important sustainability will be also for luxury brands.
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Yeah. Offer unique experiences.
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I think there is, in the meantime,
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a strong wish by the clients,
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ultra high net worth individuals in particular,
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to belong to the brand.
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You are part of a family.
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You are not just shop shopping something.
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So the product itself is still important,
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but as much as important today is all the services.
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Everything you do around for them,
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everything you do in terms of invitation,
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giving them the chance to tour the plants,
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seeing how you manufacture,
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telling stories about your craftsmanship levels.
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That has become so important over times.
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And I would say most important,
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and now I'm back to Rolls Royce,
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is probably the development of bespoke.
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So nobody any longer wants to buy something off the
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shelf that is something that is no longer relevant.
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Everybody wants to put their own masterpiece together,
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together with designers, together with a brand to say,
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this is my special Rolls Royce.
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I've crafted it. I've designed it. That carries my story.
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Very, very important.
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I dare to say that without bespoke,
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Rolls Royce would not exist any longer.
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Yeah. And this is this is, this is fascinating.
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And maybe let's let's let's dive a little bit in into that,
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because I think also for for one of the the the,
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to me, the projects that and and I think they were in in in the in
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in the department that you created or in in the I think I
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think you call it coach.
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Is it was co is it coach coach building?
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Yeah. Coach build is the pinnacle of bespoke.
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And, Daniel, this obviously that was always in my dream,
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shortly after I joined because I also read a lot about the
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history of the brand.
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And in former former times, the roaring twenties,
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coach spelled name of the game.
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Everybody designed his own Rolls Royce,
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so the chassis was delivered by Rolls Royce Motorcars,
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and then coach builders came and designed together with you the body.
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That unfortunately was technical wise not any longer
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possible, and my dream was one day, I want to bring it back.
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The reason behind it is a lot of, let's say,
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legal constraints and,
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legal requirements you need to fulfill with crash tests and
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everything in the meantime in the automotive industry.
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For that reason, Coachbuilt is, and we reinvented it at times,
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really, the pinnacle of bespoke by invitation,
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of the CEO only.
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So it is something that
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a normal client or regular client or somebody who is not, let's say,
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already in the process with Rolls Royce Motorcars for many
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years would not get the offer.
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You need to be a top top notch client to get the offer to
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participate in the Coachbuilt project.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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And I was I was,
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I was very impressed by the by by some of these these, you know,
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extraordinary projects that that you realized with with
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Coachbuilt.
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And to me, it was I had always the feeling as an observer, of course,
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that to me,
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it was really like this rare opportunities where you could
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really show the world something that they've never seen before.
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Yeah. Right.
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I I feel how would you say that this also influenced the the
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perception of of Rolls Royce?
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You made a quite, I think,
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a powerful statement before where you said maybe Rolls
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Royce without bespoke would not exist anymore, today.
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So how important would you say were these these extraordinary
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projects for the brand?
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Extremely important because extraordinary projects are
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marveled by the client, and the press worldwide was in awe when
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they saw it, obviously.
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Yeah.
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It is testament that you really go extra miles, many,
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many extra miles, and it underlines
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all the investment we have put into,
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bespoke because that was not an easy game.
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That was changing production,
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employing new skills into the company,
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facilitating new ideas in design, and so on,
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looking for new materials and new technologies to make that all happen.
15:13
Yeah.
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So it is testament for what I would call the normal
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bespoke business that when you are a client who is not coach
15:22
building your Rolls Royce, you are bespoking your Rolls Royce,
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you know that you are part of that
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unbelievable dream that you can build your own car, your dream,
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and that commission something that is out of your brain.
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So it was image wise,
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very important also in a hello way for our
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normal bread and butter bespoke business at times.
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And then, obviously, it,
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also created an unbelievable hype around, the pricing.
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And we never talked in any way about the pricing,
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of these cars, but the press started to speculate.
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Who is the owner. Twenty million.
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We heard twenty million and so on,
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and we never commented on it.
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So that also helped to set price levels.
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Mhmm.
16:13
Higher levels, it allowed the brand to move up in a way
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of unbelievable.
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The most expensive car ever built came from Rolls Royce
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Motorcars.
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I mean, that is a testament, not from our side,
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but by the press worldwide, which is gold standard.
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And, obviously, particular for a luxury brand, gold standard.
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Yeah.
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For that reason, I think it was fundamentally important to position the brand.
16:40
Yeah.
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You know, you, it was it was quite interesting,
16:43
and I think it's something that,
16:46
that, you don't know yet, but it was very,
16:49
very early in my in my kind of early days is tapping into into
16:53
luxury when I started,
16:55
with a doctoral thesis in into the topic.
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I had the idea of because I I was always fascinated by by
17:01
pricing and by how how do you price something.
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And I had the idea to create, what I called the luxury index.
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And this is basically a way how to,
17:12
compare categories, with each other in terms of pricing.
17:15
So in a in a sense,
17:17
it's it's a it's basically a proxy for the luxuriousness in a category.
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I'm taking the the kind of base product that has the bare bone functionality.
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So let's say, if we would speak about shoes,
17:28
you would look at a category for,
17:30
is it the cheapest shoe and the kind of the most simple shoe
17:34
that that still allows you kind of to to walk with with your
17:38
feet protected, and then you take the most extreme shoe.
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And the most extreme,
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in in a way of of what was the willingness of a customer
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to pay the price.
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And so we basically the the most extreme and divided it
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with the with the price point of the cheapest one,
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and then I compared,
18:00
hundred categories with each other.
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Some categories are durables.
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So they were like, cars, for example.
18:07
And then I was also fascinating and said,
18:09
what if I look into categories that are,
18:13
in a sense, let's call them perishable or that disappear, like, you know,
18:16
when you when you go to a restaurant and have a dinner or
18:19
when when you buy maybe a bottle of wine and then,
18:21
you know, after after consumption,
18:24
the bottle is empty.
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And and so then I was thinking, are there are there, correlations?
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So can I say, basically,
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maybe one category is is nondurable?
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Maybe the the the luxuriousness is somehow limited.
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This this logic would would suggest it.
18:39
And I found a couple of of,
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really fascinating insights.
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The first was it didn't matter whether durable or nondurable.
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We found find really you know,
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I think one of the the I I wrote a couple of articles
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about that was a breakfast omelette that a hotel in New
18:55
York City was, was serving.
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And this omelette was originally,
19:01
sold for one thousand dollars,
19:04
making it the most expensive omelette in the world.
19:06
And, and then you take, let's say,
19:08
a breakfast omelette that you can get in a coffee shop around
19:11
the corner, and then you make the mess.
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And you see there's a there's a huge delta in value creation
19:17
between that, extreme omelette and the normal one.
19:20
And then I looked into also the car category and looked at that
19:24
time what was the most expensive car,
19:26
which I believe and this was around,
19:29
I think we spoke speak around two thousand eight,
19:32
two thousand nine.
19:33
I think it was probably the Bugatti,
19:35
the Bugatti Veyron at that time.
19:37
Bugatti Veyron. Yeah. Right.
19:39
And, and so and then we we we compare that with the with the
19:43
cheapest car, money can buy, which at that time, I think,
19:46
was the Tata, I think, the Tata Nano, on on the market.
19:50
And, and you got to quite interesting, results.
19:55
And one of the results was that actually and this was core
20:00
quick quick correlate it between the omelette and cars.
20:03
I saw the omelette category could actually be pricier if I
20:07
compare this with some other categories.
20:10
And also cars were interestingly
20:13
low in terms of price.
20:14
And at that time,
20:15
we spoke about a Bugatti Veyron for about I think it was a
20:18
million a million euros or roughly.
20:22
And I remember, being interviewed by,
20:25
Automotive and Sport by by the German car magazine at that time,
20:29
and I made a provocative statement and said the most
20:32
expensive cars are too cheap.
20:34
And I remember being roasted, then afterwards,
20:37
I said this this, idiot,
20:39
cars are already too expensive and then comes this this luxury
20:42
researcher and says cars should be more expensive.
20:45
And I run the numbers and,
20:48
I thought at that time just comparing categories.
20:50
So for example, now you take the handbag category or you take shoe
20:54
categories and so on.
20:56
I I was saying if I apply just the same logic of how
20:59
much luxury value was created in other categories in a
21:03
relative term, cars could be be priced up to about
21:08
hundred million dollars.
21:09
This was kind of what the maths was saying.
21:11
And so and then I I I published a couple of articles saying
21:14
there should be a twenty or thirty or fifty million dollar car.
21:20
But the the the the the thing is someone has to figure out
21:24
how to do it.
21:25
And, even if there's maybe no official comment on what those
21:29
coach building cars cost.
21:31
But I think you went relatively close to to that,
21:34
at least to that dimensions.
21:36
And that for me was really, you know, I I was very, in a sense,
21:40
very proud of of what you you guys were doing,
21:42
there at at Rolls Royce because it showed that if you apply the
21:46
right storytelling, if you apply the right,
21:51
how to say that, also the right, creativity, ingenuity,
21:55
and also the right inspiration,
21:57
you actually can can build products that create so much
22:02
value that people actually pay for for those values.
22:06
Although, maybe for millions of people that seems to be absorb price points,
22:11
but if the story is right for that one person
22:14
who you now create something truly personal and unique,
22:18
it's absolutely worth that price point.
22:20
I I I fully agree, Daniel.
22:22
I I would also add that, obviously,
22:25
clients today in the luxury segment are pretty savvy pretty
22:28
savvy about product substance.
22:30
They understand what do they buy for the money,
22:33
and they want to understand what do they buy for the money.
22:36
So coming back to your omelette point of,
22:39
two thousand or whatever the omelette was,
22:41
I must I must say,
22:43
there must be something superb behind it in terms of
22:47
storytelling or some other additional services that make
22:51
these omelettes so perfect that you are prepared to pay the price.
22:56
I I think the biggest danger for luxury brands currently
23:00
is a kind of overpromise and underdeliver.
23:03
Yeah.
23:03
And, just to say, we can ask for skyrocketing prices.
23:09
And then later, when you look into the substance and when you look
23:12
into what you really buy and what kind of, sorry to say,
23:16
cache image you are buying,
23:19
you scratch your head and you think, no, guys.
23:21
That's no longer, in my view, just
23:29
Substance is not great.
23:31
The value is not really in the product.
23:34
And that is something that, in my view, has changed massively.
23:37
That was at your time when you did your service.
23:41
That was fifteen, twenty years ago.
23:44
There, I think and that is why I mentioned bling was important for people.
23:49
The brand logo in itself carried so much power that it
23:54
didn't matter what the substance was.
23:56
The main thing was I own this brand.
24:00
And that is now not longer possible in my way.
24:04
You have very educated, highly skilled people,
24:07
particularly social media made a lot out,
24:11
about what is the true substance behind the brand.
24:14
What are you really buying?
24:16
What do you you invest
24:18
five, six million into a Rolls Royce or whatever the number is.
24:23
And, I think rightly so.
24:25
And if you don't observe that and if you don't follow that
24:28
kind of intelligence,
24:30
then you might end up in overpromise and under deliver.
24:34
Yeah. Yeah.
24:34
And I think this is something that,
24:37
right now, if we look at the, you know,
24:39
the the current state of of the luxury industry, you know,
24:41
heading heading now into, this this new year, you know,
24:45
the the the last Bain study, came in, you know,
24:49
a few weeks ago.
24:50
And and to me, it was almost like a wake up call for for
24:54
the industry because the the what what Bain,
24:57
identified was that about half of luxury
25:01
customers, that they that they,
25:04
surveyed were saying luxury brands as a kind of general
25:08
statement are overpriced.
25:11
And, this is something that, in, you know,
25:14
all my years as an observer and and, also,
25:18
since I participate in this industry,
25:21
I've never seen numbers like like that. Yes.
25:24
Luxury has never been perceived as, you know, cheap, so to speak.
25:28
But that fifty percent of potential customers say that
25:32
certain brands are overpriced goes exactly in the direction
25:35
that that you are saying.
25:36
And I think that a mistake that has been done in the last
25:40
probably two, three years also after the pandemic when also,
25:43
you know, demand, was was starting to skyrocket.
25:46
Opening.
25:48
I I have the feeling that we have probably simply some
25:51
brands that, that said took and I use now the word on purpose,
25:55
maybe a little bit advantage of the clients,
25:58
and of the demand and said, okay.
25:59
We can we increase price because we can to a point where
26:03
people say, okay.
26:05
If I don't understand, like, what you just said,
26:07
the value proposition,
26:09
if I don't understand why I should
26:11
pay the money, they're not going to do that.
26:14
And I think this is also something and I would be
26:16
curious about your your experience on that because you
26:19
have been probably closer to many,
26:22
high net worth individuals than probably most other luxury
26:26
executives as you had been very very you know,
26:28
in all your travels, you've always met Pete with so on.
26:31
I I I'm I'm pretty sure that you probably never ever met
26:34
anyone who would want to waste your their money.
26:37
They they all want to know what what Guess what?
26:41
The reason why they are so, let's say,
26:44
successful and why they are ultra high net worth
26:46
individuals are is because they're extremely smart with money.
26:50
And, for that reason,
26:52
they clearly understand what substance means to them,
26:55
and they also have long lasting memory.
26:58
If they feel cheated by a brand, they will never forget,
27:01
I can tell you. And, this will bite you later.
27:06
Some brands, as you rightly said, Daniel,
27:09
made a kind of profit,
27:11
after the pandemic time by
27:14
unreasonably raising prices because demand was given.
27:18
But, that was a very short notice strategy in my view and
27:23
completely neglected that clients are intelligent.
27:27
And they are shrewd to use that,
27:31
expression in a positive meant way and that,
27:34
they would not be fooled by anythings you are doing with them.
27:38
So and that is now a kind of period where all the
27:42
brands who overdid it are now retuning and readjusting
27:47
Mhmm.
27:48
On or back to levels where I would say substance,
27:53
brand image, and price is back into a balance.
27:57
And that obviously brings many analysts and many observers
28:01
into that feeling that, oh, luxury is dead.
28:04
Luxury isn't a problem.
28:05
And, the luxury brands,
28:09
stock markets, tanks with luxury brands, and so on.
28:13
Yeah.
28:13
Rightly so. Because, again, an overpromise at times. Yeah.
28:17
Now they under deliver.
28:20
Yeah.
28:20
It's in the end, it's always fascinating because, you know,
28:23
in the end, it's not rocket science.
28:24
If if, the value to to me in in luck luxury is always about
28:29
extreme value, and as long as brands are able,
28:33
to deliver extreme value,
28:35
then there will be clients that are willing to to value the
28:39
value and then to also pay, the price points.
28:42
But if they feel, they're not getting,
28:46
what people are asked to pay for,
28:49
then it's very natural.
28:50
Then it feels it feels, it feels overpriced.
28:53
It reminds me a little bit, for example, in when I advise,
28:57
hospitality brands.
28:58
One thing that I see sometimes, you know, traveling,
29:01
is you always I would say,
29:04
in most cases, you forget how much you paid for the hotel room.
29:08
And, you know, if New York City, for example,
29:11
or now to today, I'm I'm in Shanghai.
29:14
Yes.
29:14
It's it's it's natural that you pay a few hundred dollars for
29:17
for for a room.
29:18
Room.
29:19
But don't charge me ten dollars for the the bottle of water
29:23
because, you know, we know how much a bottle of water cost.
29:26
So if, and then we have experiences in other hotels where maybe the
29:30
bottle of water is complimentary.
29:31
And now I go to one hotel where suddenly it's just ten dollars,
29:35
and then as I said, really?
29:36
And these are the these are the things I think where so much
29:39
many mistakes are done by, being, yeah,
29:42
by not delivering value, but then charging for it.
29:46
And these are, as you said,
29:47
people things that people will never forget.
29:50
No. I mean, that's Pennywise but pound foolish.
29:52
That's for sure. Yeah.
29:53
And us also on top came and maybe going back to that
29:57
period where the whole market was in full swing that many
30:01
brands, neglected,
30:04
also that I call it now scarcity,
30:09
theme, which is highly, highly important for luxury brands.
30:13
So the more you push volume into the market,
30:16
the less attractive it is for many,
30:18
many clients to acquire your brand.
30:21
And that was also happening right after the pandemic.
30:24
People flooded the shops with,
30:27
all the brands flooded the shops with,
30:30
stuff.
30:31
And, I think always keep your brand rare
30:37
and, live up to, yeah,
30:41
the promise of scarcity and luxury.
30:43
Yeah.
30:44
I want to go get back to something that you said a
30:47
little bit earlier in in our conversation.
30:49
The the impressive,
30:52
the impressive rejuvenation that you managed to to bring
30:55
into to, Rolls Royce motor cars.
30:58
And I part of this rejuvenation,
31:01
of course, was a transition of the portfolio,
31:04
with the launch of Cullinan and and Spectra under under your leadership.
31:09
And I I would I would love to talk to you a little bit about, you know,
31:13
this the how you were able to bring Inspire greatness and and
31:17
the idea around this into the launches of of both,
31:21
of both brands.
31:22
And, I have to say,
31:24
I found personally also when when I observed the launch of
31:28
Cullinan, to me, it was really a best in class best in class
31:33
example of a of a line or portfolio extension because I I
31:37
would imagine that,
31:39
the challenges for Cullinan were quite were quite significant.
31:43
And this could have been a project that could have also
31:46
broken the company if it's not executed in the right way.
31:49
So maybe if you could share a little bit the the personal
31:53
learnings of of that launch and what were, like,
31:55
kind of critical factors to to help customers
32:01
that probably one we're not even you know,
32:04
I assume a lot of Culloden customers were not even Rolls
32:07
Royce customers before.
32:08
So So maybe customers who knew the brand but never really
32:12
experienced the brand.
32:14
How do you bring the yeah.
32:16
Let's let's let's use the word,
32:17
the story of the brand to someone who never saw the brand.
32:21
Yeah. Very good point. I mean, rightly so.
32:24
As you said, it was something where during my time,
32:28
we took a long time to really develop the right product.
32:31
That is true for Cullinan, but also was true for Spectre,
32:35
the electric Rolls Royce.
32:37
Both products
32:40
are controversial and were highly controversial in the
32:43
beginning when first ideas, us mulling plans about it
32:47
leaked into the press.
32:49
Oh, is this really possible?
32:51
I mean, nobody would say no if you offer a convertible or a
32:54
coupe or a lovely limousine.
32:57
That is the natural turf for motor cars,
33:00
but an SUV at times definitely wasn't.
33:03
Mhmm.
33:04
So what we did and now I come to a point which I personally
33:07
think is super important, and that is storytelling.
33:10
If you don't investigate
33:13
a certain rationale behind the product and a link between
33:17
product and brand, And we have done it.
33:21
And guess what?
33:22
We found a very interesting and marvelous story,
33:25
and the story is Lawrence of Arabia.
33:29
And Lawrence of Arabia used to drive together with
33:33
his, army armored Rolls Royces through the deserts.
33:37
And, that was a fantastic story.
33:40
And these Rolls Royces were so reliable that he said
33:44
the Rolls Royce in the desert is more worse and more valuable than rubies.
33:49
And, this is, a common say,
33:51
and we started to develop that story.
33:54
And we told everybody that there is big credential in us
33:57
doing it because, formally, a Rolls Royce was everywhere,
34:01
even in the deserts with ruins of Arabia or in the outbacks of Australia.
34:07
So the cars were extremely capable always.
34:10
That was the history of the brand.
34:11
So an SUV is a kind of natural development in that area.
34:16
So that went down extremely well.
34:18
Then on top came what I call a marvelous story around the naming.
34:22
Cullinan, the largest ever found raw diamond in the world,
34:26
sits in the crown jewels of, her majesty
34:30
in the UK.
34:32
And all that in conjunction with the authenticity of, yes,
34:37
we can go off road and we can go everywhere,
34:41
made it easy to find something that was very, very convincing.
34:44
And then, obviously, we also got the design pretty right.
34:48
I would say in the beginning,
34:49
it was truly a Rolls Royce because one thing I also
34:53
believe is never give up your soul.
34:55
Never give up under your credentials.
34:57
It needed to be a Rolls Royce.
35:00
A Rolls Royce first and an SUV second.
35:03
And that means magic carpet ride also needs to happen in a
35:06
Rolls Royce SUV Cullinan.
35:09
Everything you are used to is also happening in a Cullinan.
35:13
In a row it's used to from a restaurant.
35:17
So that in the end opened up new
35:22
garages for people who observed us for quite some time
35:26
and also said, I guess not yet.
35:30
I'm too young.
35:31
Maybe in ten, fifteen years,
35:32
I'm in for a Rolls Royce or whatever.
35:34
And Kalinin changed massively that
35:37
perception that this is suddenly something that is the
35:40
number one car in the, in the garage.
35:43
And, a car that was used for all, let's say,
35:48
travel alternatives, school runs,
35:51
going down to the yard harbor with the family,
35:54
using the car as your number one car in the household that
35:57
is also highly unconventional and was very unconventional for
36:01
us at times because clients in the segment of Rolls Royce is
36:06
normally do have seven, eight,
36:07
nine cars in the
36:10
at least.
36:11
So for every certain purpose, a special car.
36:14
And we were able to push other SUVs out of the garage and
36:19
to enter with Cullinan.
36:20
And that was important for us that we are we are not
36:23
cannibalizing the existing model range,
36:25
but we wanted to look out for new clients,
36:29
clients who never had ever before in their life,
36:32
the Rolls Royce in the garage.
36:34
Yeah.
36:35
I I think,
36:37
here I can just say also again from from a personal experience.
36:40
I have a friend who, who bought a Cullinan, and,
36:44
he he also told me that the this idea of inspire greatness
36:49
is something that he feels every time when he he goes into
36:52
to the he's a very easy also very successful entrepreneur.
36:55
But so it's for him almost a reminder every day,
36:59
of that he has to deliver greatness.
37:00
So also a great link.
37:02
And I I remember also that, and and also, again,
37:06
kudos to that.
37:08
When when you launched Kalinin, there was there were also,
37:10
like I think you had a collaboration with National
37:13
Geographic.
37:14
I remember there were some some video that they showed that
37:17
showed the car in this, in this mission, I think.
37:20
And then there was, like, a long video, almost, like,
37:22
seventeen minutes or so.
37:24
Yeah.
37:24
We had different sequences of videos where the car two had basically
37:29
superb off road areas in the world.
37:32
Yeah.
37:32
In the sets, in the Scottish Highlands,
37:37
all over in Australia, in the Outbacks.
37:41
Hundred percent. Well remembered, Daniel.
37:43
You're right.
37:44
That was I would call it a genius marketing story as well, yeah,
37:47
and gave the car massive credibility that it was
37:50
possible to really do what we promised the car would deliver.
37:55
Mhmm. Yeah.
37:56
And I I remember I've, I I've shown that video to some of my,
38:01
marketing students in in my luxury MBA classes.
38:04
And I would say, Unisono,
38:06
the the the feedback was after they they were were tortured,
38:10
I have to say, because, you know,
38:12
it was the attention span today of,
38:14
of of of Gen z's that typically are six seconds.
38:18
And you give them a say seventeen minute video to, to watch.
38:23
Almost everyone afterwards said when the video came to the end,
38:27
said, I want this car.
38:29
And that for me was, you know, a remarkable testament how,
38:32
as you said before, how critical storytelling is,
38:35
but also how critical almost, like, to me,
38:38
this that that video particularly was was really
38:41
giving in in so many different dimension, a logic,
38:45
and a reason why someone needed that car.
38:48
And but without without basically begging for that.
38:52
Just there was like a there was like a, yeah, to me,
38:55
it just an a naturalness and effortlessness,
38:58
to to that, and and still, it was something very, very convincing.
39:03
And, you know, so many other, car videos or so,
39:08
I don't even remember.
39:09
But this was one where I thought it's so it was so
39:12
unusual and so, I would say,
39:16
also bold in in a way how it was done.
39:19
And I think, correct me,
39:20
but I think that the the the entire launch campaign also,
39:24
and and this to me also was even revolution,
39:28
like, a revolution in the automotive space was mainly
39:31
digital, if I remember well.
39:33
Hundred percent. Yeah.
39:34
It's anyhow that we and at my time,
39:38
mainly went digital because, it is highly cost effective
39:43
And, it's something obviously,
39:44
we also had events with clients worldwide because I'm a true
39:48
believer that, you need to,
39:50
throw quite a lot of events and experiences with your client,
39:54
you'll end your upcoming prospects.
39:57
That was also where we invested substantial money into,
40:00
but the rest was all into, let's say, as you say,
40:04
social media and digital, channels all over the world.
40:08
Yeah.
40:09
In speaking about events, that brings me, I think, to another,
40:13
critical, I would success fact and critical topic in in
40:16
luxury, the experience.
40:18
And, you know,
40:20
I personally and this is probably because
40:23
I'm I'm personally not yet a client of Rolls Royce.
40:27
So I'm I'm a client of some other brands that most people
40:31
would would call probably luxury car brands.
40:34
But I have to say that for me in in luxury automotive,
40:38
maybe one of the Achilles heel can often be the customer
40:41
experience, especially in this indirect model that so many,
40:45
brands are dependent on where you have dealership and we all
40:49
know some are better than others.
40:51
And I'm always seem to be the the unlucky one that get the
40:54
bad dealers, so to speak, wherever I am too.
40:56
Yeah.
40:57
But but talk a little bit about the the dealership experience
41:00
because I I I know from my own,
41:03
from from my own history with car brands,
41:07
whenever I broke up with a brand,
41:10
it was always because of the of something that happened in the
41:13
dealership experience.
41:14
Serviced all. Later. And very often, as you said, service.
41:17
You know, you you arrive the service place and you have an
41:20
appointment, and then they tell you, no.
41:22
You don't have an appointment.
41:23
It's silly things that in the end let this experience break down.
41:27
So I would be be curious because I can imagine that you
41:31
had faced exactly the same challenges.
41:35
What were what were things that you particularly paid attention to?
41:39
What would you maybe recommend others to to do?
41:43
What what are kind of the the the ingredients to make the
41:46
client experience at at the dealership or the point of sale
41:49
in general extraordinary?
41:52
I mean, just to put it simple, I would say training, training,
41:56
training, training.
41:57
That is actually obviously,
41:59
you need to develop a training that teaches people
42:04
how to behave in the luxury atmosphere and how to deal with
42:08
these very discerning clients.
42:11
What do you need to do?
42:12
So we developed,
42:14
during my time, a program,
42:18
that was teaching basically everybody in Goodwood in our
42:23
worldwide partner networks how to deal with clients.
42:27
And that is obviously something where you can't rest.
42:32
You need to do that constantly.
42:34
And you also need to select the right people who are offering the services.
42:39
Not everybody is capable to talk to
42:42
the clients in the way how you want them to talk to the clients.
42:47
And I think you also need to make decision who is fronting
42:51
clients and who is not fronting clients.
42:53
Because the one who's fronting clients definitely needs
42:58
the feeling and needs the capabilities to speak with
43:01
clients on eye level and needs to read all the wishes from
43:05
their eyes while speaking to them.
43:08
That's what they all expect from you.
43:11
If you fail, you have a problem. I can't agree more.
43:14
For that reason, that is the Achilles heel, as you said.
43:18
And if you are not training your Achilles heel regularly,
43:22
it might break, and then you have a problem.
43:25
Yeah.
43:26
So I also think that it is and you see that with many brands.
43:31
They all invest into brick and mortar shops, shops, shops.
43:34
But that's easy.
43:36
And, what not what is not easy is to find and train the right people
43:41
who interact on highest levels and,
43:45
to find them is difficult.
43:48
So I think as a luxury brand,
43:50
it requires that you are permanently on
43:53
your toes, permanently,
43:55
and that you are reaching out for new experiences,
43:58
that you are training your people constantly on new
44:01
levels, new ideas, and fascinating ways to impress the client.
44:06
If you don't do that and if and now it comes that's my final point.
44:09
You also need to pay your people properly
44:12
because you need good people to do that.
44:15
And if you're not prepared to pay,
44:17
you won't get the right level of people.
44:19
But this service is crucial.
44:22
It's for me the neck breaker for luxury if it isn't executed
44:26
in a proper way.
44:27
Yeah. Yeah. I I can't I can't agree more.
44:30
And, you know, that makes me also so enthusiastic that we will also
44:33
do master classes together.
44:35
Yeah. I'm very much looking forward to that. Yeah.
44:37
And I think we have a lot to teach here,
44:40
some other luxury brands who might want to get a bit of
44:44
guidance here also from our side.
44:46
What is important when it comes to service levels?
44:49
How do you wanna?
44:50
What do we need to say, how do we teach the people, and so on.
44:54
And I think we both have lots of knowledge around that.
44:57
Yeah. Yeah.
44:57
I think it's it's it's going to be it's going to be very, very, very exciting.
45:00
And it it's it's it's so what you said also resonated so much
45:04
with me because sometimes, you know, when I I I did a lot of,
45:08
over the last couple of of of of years,
45:11
but specifically in in in the last maybe six, seven months,
45:13
a lot of trainings, for example, in in hospitality or,
45:17
you know, when take hot luxury hospitality,
45:19
branded residences, and so on.
45:21
And so very,
45:24
investment heavy categories where sometimes companies spend on one property,
45:29
sometimes billions when you take huge huge real estate developments.
45:33
And then, you know,
45:34
the one thing that almost flabbergast me is
45:37
there's no problem to spend a billion in real estate.
45:41
But then all the factors that you just mentioned,
45:44
paying the staff that then delivers the,
45:47
the to the client, paying them properly,
45:50
putting the right incentive systems in place that are not
45:54
focusing on, on something transactional,
45:57
but focusing actually on the client experience,
45:59
really thinking strategically on how to incentivize that.
46:03
But then also even even trainings,
46:06
the discussion that then sometimes are about training
46:08
budgets, somewhere where, again, you know,
46:12
unbelievable amount of of of money is spent on the hardware,
46:15
and then you have a, let's say, a beautiful palace.
46:19
But within that beautiful palace,
46:22
there is basically no no content,
46:24
in there or no soul to to to to use the word that you said said before.
46:29
And and that is basically destroying so many things that
46:33
could otherwise be mind blowing.
46:36
It takes something mind blowing to something that is, you know,
46:39
just maybe a a a far cry from from its potential.
46:43
Hundred percent. I can't agree more.
46:45
And, unfortunately,
46:46
that is people very often or brands very often think brick
46:50
and mortar is safe.
46:52
It's a good investment.
46:53
Whilst training is not a good investment because our people
46:56
might leave us tomorrow.
46:57
I think that is very,
46:59
very wrong in its opinion because well trained people and
47:04
also well paid people will stay extremely loyal to you
47:08
because they enjoy working for you,
47:11
because you have put effort into them and you have trained
47:14
them, and they will pay that back.
47:16
I'm I'm I'm I'm very convinced about it.
47:19
At my times at Rolls Royce,
47:21
we opened so called private offices worldwide because not
47:24
everybody could travel to Goodwood to see it all with their own eyes.
47:28
So we opened,
47:30
private offices in, all major capital cities in the world,
47:34
and, we invested here as well,
47:37
heavy into training and heavy into how to interact with people.
47:41
And I can tell you, when I left,
47:43
ninety five percent of the people in the private offices
47:46
were still the people we,
47:48
employed at times when we generated the idea.
47:52
So, I'm a true believer that investment in people pays back
47:56
in a very positive way for your brand.
47:59
Yeah.
48:00
And I'm also I'm, yeah, I'm I'm I'm also convinced that, that,
48:04
if someone basically also feels in the end,
48:07
it comes everything we are discussing comes back to
48:11
how can we create value and how can we make someone feel valued.
48:15
So and this is basically the perspective of the client that,
48:19
you know, when they walk, let's say,
48:21
to a car dealership or to what you just described,
48:24
the private office, that they feel valued,
48:26
but it's also the employee.
48:27
Because if they get the right training,
48:30
if they get basically the right
48:33
support system at at the hand, if and if they are basically,
48:37
get the right structure, then also they as as a person can develop.
48:42
So it's basically if I think if if luxury is done right,
48:46
to me is is actually the most exciting category to be in
48:50
because then it's it's it creates, like,
48:52
an ecosystem of value where from the client to to everyone
48:57
involved, value is created.
48:59
And if it's not done right,
49:01
then it goes back to what you said earlier,
49:03
when when you talk about talked about, you know,
49:06
brands not delivering on their promise,
49:08
then it's just a a beautiful frame
49:12
without any without anything in that frame.
49:14
And then this frame is going to collapse.
49:16
People are not going to stay.
49:17
Customers customers are not going to believe in it and then
49:21
going to run away.
49:22
I think in the luxury business, you need to be a perfectionist.
49:26
I'm a perfectionist.
49:28
That's also why I love that business because you suddenly
49:31
need to go extra miles.
49:32
And something that was right today
49:35
is not any longer right the next day for the client.
49:39
That also brings me back to points like events, yeah,
49:42
Daniel, and, irritations for clients.
49:45
So if you had, let's say,
49:47
good experiences with a kind of event format this year,
49:51
don't bet on that for the next year.
49:53
Next year is next year, and you need to develop new ideas,
49:57
new things to attract your clients.
49:59
All the clients at high end sector have invitations from
50:02
many, many other brands,
50:04
and they have the chance to constantly compare.
50:07
And many people don't think about it,
50:09
that your clients
50:12
are flooded with many ideas from other luxury brands.
50:15
So you need to be on your toes to be always
50:19
ahead of the curve and to find new ways to attract them and to
50:23
enthuse your clients.
50:25
I think one thing that impressed me always is,
50:29
that you are probably from from all the the from from
50:34
most of the leaders in in the in the automotive industry and
50:37
potentially even in the luxury industry at large,
50:40
probably the one that spend most time with one on one,
50:44
with with clients.
50:46
Maybe share a little bit your your insights there,
50:49
how how important this this personal touch and this
50:52
personal time is for the client,
50:54
also for you inspiring yourself in in your day to day.
50:58
I would say, Daniel, that was my lifeblood.
51:02
So, that gave me
51:05
the thought and gave me the ideas.
51:08
What I did, and I traveled a lot whenever I was on travels,
51:12
we invited ten to fifteen clients,
51:15
couples, for a beautiful lovely evening dinner,
51:19
and we chatted everything.
51:20
We chatted business. We didn't chat automotive.
51:23
We chatted business.
51:24
We chatted what's going on currently in the country,
51:28
what is important.
51:30
And, also, for me, amazing to hear what other luxury brands
51:34
they favor, for what reason do they favor them,
51:38
and what was their latest and greatest experience with other
51:41
brands, and that gave me superb insights.
51:45
And I would consider myself as really pretty savvy in
51:48
understanding the clientele.
51:50
And, I mean, after fourteen years and at least two travels
51:54
each month, I've seen quite a lot of clients.
51:57
I wouldn't say I know every single client within Rolls Royce Motorcars,
52:01
but the organization definitely knows every single client.
52:06
One of my core beliefs at times when I joined was if when the
52:10
client is the king and the client is the king because only
52:13
the client brings the money, nobody else,
52:16
then we are serving that king and that is the client.
52:20
And for that reason, I wanted that all people ideally get as
52:24
much contact with clients as possible.
52:27
So we allowed clients to see a production line to
52:31
really look over the shoulders of the clients and,
52:36
to talk with them and to to really interact with
52:40
them, to hear it from the horse's mouth
52:44
Yeah. Things need to be perfect.
52:47
And, and the reason they are marveling Rolls Royce
52:52
is perfection in every single detail.
52:55
And when you hear that from a client,
52:57
then you have a complete different attitude and mindset
53:00
suddenly than somebody who just started training on that.
53:03
Yeah.
53:05
Yeah. Yeah. This is this is, fantastic.
53:06
And this leads me to to, you know,
53:09
probably another challenge that many luxury
53:12
brands will will, are facing today,
53:16
and this is the differences in culture.
53:19
And I can imagine, you know, on on your travels,
53:22
and similar to to to me, right now,
53:26
but also traveling almost every week some somewhere,
53:29
it it is so remarkable how different every region in in
53:32
the world is, every every place.
53:34
And then even within countries, you know, sometimes we speak,
53:38
even in, in general terms about a country like China.
53:41
And then sometimes we forget that in China,
53:43
we have more than a hundred and forty cities of over a million
53:46
top billion people.
53:48
And sometimes I have to when people say, oh,
53:50
so just a tier four city.
53:52
Yeah. Come on.
53:53
A tier four city is bigger than the biggest cities in some well
53:56
known in some well known countries.
53:58
So it's it's it's it's interesting.
54:00
And and so for for how would you say
54:05
or what are maybe critical success factors for for luxury
54:09
brands when it comes
54:12
to serving customers all over the world where there's so many
54:16
different expectations,
54:18
different rituals, different ways of,
54:22
utilizing products, sometimes even, you know,
54:26
different tastes.
54:28
I can imagine especially when it comes to cars,
54:31
there's so many different tastes.
54:33
You know?
54:33
If I look at, for example, Japan,
54:36
Middle East, the Americas, you know, Germany,
54:40
and and so on.
54:41
Hundred percent. Hundred percent.
54:43
I mean, I mean, for me personally,
54:46
it's extremely important that you adapt to,
54:49
local or country specific cultures,
54:52
that you also spend time in the country to better understand
54:56
why clients are choosing this and not choosing that.
55:01
Bespoke, I said it a couple of times now in our,
55:04
little podcast here is is for me very, very important.
55:09
And Bespoke gave us all the opportunities, obviously,
55:12
to cater for each individual taste pattern and to do
55:16
whatever clients were asking us they wanted to see commissioned
55:20
in their restaurants.
55:22
So on top comes, I think that you also need to make an
55:26
effort that you engage more with,
55:29
maybe local other brands, other
55:32
luxury brands, local ones that you are starting to
55:36
cooperate maybe also in countries with
55:39
local brands that you make an effort to
55:43
position your brand as eye opened to other foreign cultures.
55:48
And I think that is super important,
55:50
particularly for younger generations out of those countries.
55:53
It is important that western brands
55:57
are at least making an effort to adapt to local cultures
56:02
and to make an effort to get a certain I call it now
56:07
Chinese cliche as well into their brand proposition in
56:11
China, which is artificial, which
56:14
needs to be authentic.
56:15
But, obviously, you make an effort to adapt yourself to a local culture.
56:21
Yeah.
56:23
Maybe maybe one or two more more more questions because
56:26
this has been such a fascinating such a fascinating
56:29
discussion with so many where we already have so many,
56:32
insights that that, that you shared.
56:35
If you basically reflect on on your tenure at at Rolls Royce,
56:40
when you think about maybe your personal learnings about
56:44
luxury, but also in terms of leadership,
56:46
and some you have in in the different questions already referred to.
56:49
But what were in in your point of view,
56:52
when you think about what you know today about luxury,
56:56
and maybe what were your assumption going into the into those roles?
57:00
What were maybe the most significant personal learnings,
57:04
and what can can you share maybe to others who aspire to
57:08
become leaders in in the luxury, world?
57:11
I mean, it is not easy to put that into a nutshell that takes
57:15
hour to talk about that what needed to really get into,
57:19
the luxury segment.
57:20
But I would say one of my fundamental learnings
57:24
is client centricity.
57:26
And, client centricity in a way that the client is not
57:30
only in your mind, the client is constantly at your heart.
57:35
And that is something what you need to live and what you also
57:38
need to showcase to your own people every day,
57:41
every single minute that only the client counts,
57:44
nothing else.
57:46
And that is, I think, extremely crucial in the luxury sector.
57:50
Extremely crucial. Learning number one.
57:53
Number two is bespoke, in my view,
57:55
is crucial because luxury today isn't any longer off the shelf.
58:00
You need to give clients the chance to interact,
58:03
to be part of the brand,
58:04
also to give them the chance to put their own taste
58:08
patterns into the brand and to fulfill own dreams with the brand.
58:14
And then you mentioned it. I mentioned it storytelling.
58:17
I mean,
58:19
many brands don't make an effort to reflect on what great
58:22
stories they could potentially tell.
58:25
Me, personally, I think when you make the effort and when you really
58:28
delve into history and when you delve into how you build
58:31
product and so on,
58:33
there are lots of stories your clients will be interested in.
58:37
Wonderful.
58:37
And maybe one one last one last question is,
58:43
if you reflect on it's it's kind of funny to just use the
58:46
word reflect on the future.
58:48
But if if if you kind of,
58:50
think a little bit about where for you the future of luxury is
58:54
from from what you've seen, you already spoke about, you know,
58:58
coming from maybe the world of let's call it maybe a little
59:02
bit of more superficial luxury, the bling bling,
59:05
towards maybe a world of more content today,
59:09
of more relevance.
59:10
You also spoke about being part of something,
59:13
so the community aspect.
59:14
So we're moving we're moving from from from product
59:18
to to creating value for the
59:21
client as a whole.
59:23
So if we now go another ten years or twenty years into the
59:27
future, where would you say would be
59:30
one or two things that you expect to become much more
59:34
relevant in the future than they are today?
59:38
I would say probably sustainability,
59:40
ethical practices, more and more important in future.
59:44
Digital innovation is super important,
59:46
not only using advanced technology,
59:49
but also what I would call a seamless omnichannel experience.
59:54
We talked already about customization and
59:56
personalization that is going up to new levels in future.
1:00:00
I'm pretty convinced about it.
1:00:02
Cultural relevance, we talked a minute ago.
1:00:05
So put local insights into your brand.
1:00:08
Generate an authentic storytelling.
1:00:10
What makes you great in China?
1:00:13
Why is your brides relevant for China just to stick with China
1:00:17
now or Middle East or whatever.
1:00:19
Health and wellness is something I'm personally
1:00:22
extremely convinced, about is something that plays a
1:00:26
role in future.
1:00:27
That holistic well-being approach, the wellness integration,
1:00:32
incorporating wellness elements into your product design,
1:00:36
all that becomes important in my view.
1:00:38
And then, obviously, I said in the beginning,
1:00:40
the whole social responsibility thing, community engagement,
1:00:44
inclusive inclusivity, diversity,
1:00:48
very, very important for luxury.
1:00:51
All these facets obviously needs need to be played in a
1:00:54
luxury way.
1:00:55
And,
1:00:57
quite some ideas in my mind how that could all be done, but,
1:01:01
that could be now a podcast for the next eight hours.
1:01:04
Yeah. Wonderful. So so no. This was this was was great.
1:01:08
And, you know, just reflecting while you were you were giving those those
1:01:13
points in a very precise way, you know, from sustainability,
1:01:16
you spoke about digital customization, personalization,
1:01:20
the cultural relevance, authentic storytelling.
1:01:23
And then then, you know,
1:01:25
what really resonated with me was this idea of health,
1:01:28
wellness, the holistic well-being.
1:01:30
So in a sense, we can really see if if we maybe maybe put
1:01:34
this holistic well-being almost like the ultimate the ultimate
1:01:38
goal, to go,
1:01:40
there's really a transition that a fundamental transition
1:01:44
that has been happening and will happen.
1:01:47
And I don't want to say away from product because one of the
1:01:50
things you just mentioned was more an integration into
1:01:53
Absolutely.
1:01:54
I should think maybe less in a way, of,
1:01:59
maybe less in a in a traditional engineering way
1:02:02
where it is all about, you know,
1:02:04
kind of taming the machine and making making things,
1:02:08
making things maybe as perfect as possible.
1:02:11
But in a sense, thinking about the human and thinking,
1:02:16
how can we make the enrich the life of the human through our
1:02:20
products, through our services in in the best possible way.
1:02:24
And but thinking about this in a non compromising way because
1:02:28
all of the things you mentioned, you know,
1:02:29
from sustainability to cultural relevance personalization
1:02:32
fundamentally says we have to put the human
1:02:35
at the center, and we have to make something very humanistic.
1:02:39
And so,
1:02:41
from from what I observed in our conversation is fundamentally,
1:02:45
we have to speak think about luxury and the transition of
1:02:48
luxury from a maybe very product centric
1:02:53
approach twenty, thirty, fifty years ago to a very human
1:02:58
centric approach between now and the next ten,
1:03:02
twenty, thirty years.
1:03:04
And that I also understand it it will be, Daniel,
1:03:06
it will be an extremely holistic approach that is
1:03:09
needed in future, which is not only reflecting, let's say,
1:03:13
the product in itself that is given.
1:03:15
The product needs to be great and perfect,
1:03:17
but it is not sufficient.
1:03:18
You need to have a great service level.
1:03:20
You need to have fantastic client interaction.
1:03:23
And you read need to read your clients.
1:03:26
And your clients are constantly on the run,
1:03:28
and they have constantly new ideas, ambitious.
1:03:31
I just mentioned a couple of them where I think they will
1:03:34
become highly relevant in future.
1:03:36
So you need to develop, I call it,
1:03:38
an ecosystem for your luxury brand that really reflects on
1:03:42
all different areas that are important in future for the
1:03:46
client because the client is the king,
1:03:47
and the client is the one who buys your brand.
1:03:50
Yeah.
1:03:50
And this means also that in in a sense to to build that
1:03:54
ecosystem, we need to also think in a
1:03:59
completely different way about skills,
1:04:01
in a completely different way about the the approaches.
1:04:04
And it also makes me so enthusiastic about, you know,
1:04:07
what we want to do together,
1:04:09
because this is these are things that
1:04:12
we will be able to provide to organizations to look into
1:04:15
those kind of skills to prepare organizations
1:04:18
in this transition from where they are today into what the
1:04:22
customers of the future what the future Actually,
1:04:25
what is what is what is really needed to elevate your brand?
1:04:30
If the strategy should be,
1:04:32
let's try to elevate the brand into even further levels and
1:04:36
higher levels, then, obviously,
1:04:38
you need to understand the codes for that and what is
1:04:41
needed to make that happen.
1:04:42
And I think
1:04:45
that's it, Daniel.
1:04:46
Yeah. Super. Wonderful.
1:04:48
So, Thorsten, thank you so much for for your time today.
1:04:52
That was an pleasure.
1:04:54
And,
1:04:55
yeah, and I think this this is one of the,
1:04:58
I think will be one of the highlights of of the podcast series.
1:05:02
Thank you really for, you know, sharing,
1:05:05
with everyone your invaluable insights,
1:05:08
your story, the learnings on on the way.
1:05:11
And we will share we will share also your contacts in the in in
1:05:14
the show notes so that everyone who wants to contact you knows
1:05:18
how to to reach you.
1:05:19
So thank you once again.
1:05:21
Perfect. Lovely.
1:05:22
Now thank you, Daniel, and,
1:05:24
looking forward seeing you soon.
1:05:26
Yeah. Thank you.