Latest / Come Back to Love: / Come Back to Love September 03, 2026 Come Back to Love Through Co-Parenting

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Come Back to Love September 03, 2026 Come Back to Love Through Co-Parenting · Come Back to Love:

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Come Back to Love with your host, Robin Vogel.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Each week at this same time, Come Back to Love
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: covers an endless array of topics related to relationships, love,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and intimacy, along with all the reasons you may be
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: keeping love at a distance. Can a shattered heart be
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: your doorway to your greatest love story? Robin will give
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: you practical tools that can be used to heal the
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: past and help you to safely love again. And now,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: today's Come Back to Love.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: In a world that often feels disconnected, uncertain, and overwhelming,
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  Speaker 2: there has never been a more important time to come
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: back to love. I'm Robin Vogel, psychotherapist, relationship expert, love
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and intimacy coach, and the author of Come Back to Love,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: A Path to Healing. For over 20 years, I've been
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: sitting with people in their most tender, courageous moments, the heartbreaks,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: the longing, the walls they've built around their hearts, and
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: the quiet hope that real love is still possible. I'm
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  Speaker 2: here to tell you that it is. I created Come
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Back to Love because I know what it feels like
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: to be capable, successful, and still quietly wonder whether love
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: is truly available to you. This work is deeply personal
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  Speaker 2: to me. I've walked this path myself, and for more
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: than 20 years, I've helped others reconnect with the parts
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: of themselves they learned to protect. My mission is simple,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: to help you remember who you truly are, expand your
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: capacity for love, intimacy, and authentic connection, and create a
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: life and relationship you genuinely love. Through immersive transformational experiences,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: I support spiritual seekers in reconnecting with their deepest truth
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: and stepping into the lives they're meant to be. This
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: show is a sanctuary, a place to heal the past,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: reconnect with yourself, and fall in love again with your life,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: with others, and most importantly, with yourself. Welcome to Come
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Back to Love. We are on KMET, your ABC News
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: radio affiliate. Come Back to Love radio show airs in
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the Southern California area. on KMET 1490 AM and 98.1 FM.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: We are live every Thursday at 1.30 PM Pacific, 4.30
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: PM Eastern. Today, I have a special guest that I
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: am so excited to introduce you to, Lisa Lisser. Lisa
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  Speaker 2: is the founder of LZL Coaching, a boutique coaching firm
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: focused on divorce, relationships, and life transitions. She is a
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  Speaker 2: retired attorney, a nonprofit leader, public speaker, Jewish educator, and
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  Speaker 2: spiritual counselor. She blends these life skills to create a
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  Speaker 2: safe and welcoming environment for every one of her clients
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  Speaker 2: and colleagues. As a divorce coach, Lisa walks people through
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  Speaker 2: the divorce process hand in hand, helping them move forward
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  Speaker 2: grounded in purpose. Her core curriculum invites people to articulate
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: their values as the anchor of the whole process. And
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  Speaker 2: then she works with clients to help them see opportunities
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  Speaker 2: instead of obstacles. Sometimes she walks clients back to each
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: other and they stay together because they have shifted their mindsets.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: The best time to meet Lisa is at the beginning
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: when you're thinking about whether you should stay or go.
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  Speaker 2: The way she works with her clients into this possible
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: tornado is with a plan and a vision knowing there
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  Speaker 2: is a day after. You can call her when you're
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  Speaker 2: blindsided and emotions are overwhelming you She's here to help
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: hold your hand and remind you who you are. If
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  Speaker 2: you're staying up all night worrying about the kids and
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  Speaker 2: how to co-parent, she's a trained BH2O child-centered co-parenting facilitator.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: And I think that might be our topic for today.
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  Speaker 2: I'm just going to move us right into this conversation, Lisa.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you to our listeners for tuning in and listening
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: to all of that. But here we go with the conversation.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Great. I'm so happy to be here, Robin. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here. All of the
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  Speaker 2: things actually that you are and you be are the
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  Speaker 2: reason that I reached out to you when we first
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: met several months ago in a networking environment. And I'm
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  Speaker 2: so happy to be connected with you and get to
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: know you. I would love to dive into this topic
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: of co-parenting as a start. My experience is like such
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  Speaker 2: a wide variety of experiences that people have.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like from really good co-parenting, which personally, thankfully I
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: have had in my life to extremely difficult co-parenting. And
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  Speaker 2: I wonder just maybe you could give our listeners just
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  Speaker 2: kind of an overview of what you've been, you know,
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  Speaker 2: navigating with the people that come to work with you. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.
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  Speaker 4: So co-parenting is probably the hardest and yet most important
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  Speaker 4: skill and process that you're going to have with your
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  Speaker 4: ex for the rest of your life. And that seems
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  Speaker 4: really daunting because you've just separated from that person who
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: was not your partner, was not your partner in life.
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  Speaker 4: And maybe the thing that broke you was that you
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  Speaker 4: didn't have the same parenting style or values. And now
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  Speaker 4: you still are both parents of these children and you
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  Speaker 4: need to figure out a different plan. So when I
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: work with clients who are really in the weeds of
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: it and who are pushing each other's buttons, whether intentionally
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  Speaker 4: or unintentionally, I help them shift their mindsets. So they
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: start to recognize that their conflict is not serving their children.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: And that what they first need to recognize is that
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  Speaker 4: conflict is a given. We all disagree. We all have trouble.
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  Speaker 4: We all get in places that are not smooth. But
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  Speaker 4: how we handle that conflict is a measure of how
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: our children will thrive or struggle. And so what this
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: work does is it helps people center the whole relationship
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  Speaker 4: on how does my child feel? How can I step
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: into their shoes and imagine their experience of our conflict?
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  Speaker 4: And when I do that, I can shift my own
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  Speaker 4: mindset just a little, which can change the entire dynamic
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  Speaker 4: between you and your co-parent.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's so true. You know, it's interesting, the
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: timing of our conversation, because I think it was just
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: yesterday that I was having a conversation with someone about
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: my own co-parenting experience. And it's been 20 years for
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: me that I've been co-parenting. And I was saying that
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I've had a good experience. And then I said, it
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: hasn't been without conflict. It's just that we made such
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: a commitment to co-parent with equanimity that even when there's conflict...
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: we just kept coming back to the commitment. And that,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I think that piece is of course grounded in like,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: what's going to, what are the, how are the kids
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  Speaker 2: going to experience this? Yeah. That's the main focus.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: And it's hard to get there. You know, when we say, oh,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: it's always the best interests of the children. That's, that's
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: just words because it's, The court really doesn't know your
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: children and they don't know what's in the best interest
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: of your children. And your emotional response to your co-parent
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: that they're a bad influence or they should not be
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: near your child or I'm going to make it as
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: hard for them as possible to prove they can't do it. Now,
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: I've seen iterations of all these things. That doesn't support
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: your children. It's designed to actually help your Co-parent fail.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Right. What some people want.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly.
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  Speaker 4: I have clients where I see that they and their
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: co-parent are really trying to prove who's the better parent
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: by making it hard for the co-parent. And there are
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: emotional reasons that we need to do the things we do.
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  Speaker 4: This is a defense mechanism for a lot of reasons.
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  Speaker 4: At the same time, it doesn't serve... your children's hearts.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: And maybe that's what we're not really thinking about. And
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: there are times that I know in my experience, and
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: I've been divorced for, it's 10 years, but we were separated,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: like going through the process, which was a very ugly
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  Speaker 4: time for three years.
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  Speaker 1: So 13 years.
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  Speaker 3: And I didn't know how to.
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: Center my kids. I was, people were in my ear saying, oh,
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  Speaker 4: kids are adaptable. Kids can make the best of anything.
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  Speaker 3: And I.
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  Speaker 4: Felt like maybe it was the first time I was
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: putting myself first and maybe my co-parent thought the same thing.
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  Speaker 4: And we were not necessarily doing what was best for
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  Speaker 4: the kids. But what wound up happening was we were
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: very much parallel parenting.
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  Speaker 3: Because the less interaction.
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  Speaker 4: We had with each other, the less conflict there was.
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  Speaker 4: And so parallel parenting isn't bad. It might actually be
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  Speaker 4: the form of co-parenting that works in your family because
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  Speaker 4: less conflict is better for your children. The issue that
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  Speaker 4: we may have gotten wrong and I would do differently
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  Speaker 4: now is I would have.
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  Speaker 3: Been in a constant... regular communication state where I knew
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  Speaker 3: what was happening at their house.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: I needed to know what was happening at my co-parent's house.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 4: He was more permissive than I was. And the children
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  Speaker 4: had a lot of parties at that house that I
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: wasn't aware of, but I would hear from the other
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  Speaker 4: moms later about something I didn't even know happened. And
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  Speaker 4: that made me again feel out of the loop. So
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: figuring out how you could parallel parent and stay in
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  Speaker 4: the loop is really important.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great example. Let's define, even though it
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: might seem obvious, but if you could Define parallel parenting.
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  Speaker 2: I think that would be really helpful.
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  Speaker 3: Sure.
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  Speaker 4: So parallel parenting is where you each do your own thing.
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  Speaker 4: You have some agreement on broad ideas, right? Like you
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: want to do, you both in your own head want
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  Speaker 4: to do what's best for the kids, but you can't
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  Speaker 4: agree on things. So you agree that what happens at
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: one house when they're under my roof, it's my rules.
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  Speaker 3: When it's under your roof, it's your rules. And they
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: learn two sets of rules.
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  Speaker 4: And sometimes you can make the rules similar, but they're
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: not always the same. And yet, if logistics are aligned,
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: the children get picked up when they have to. You
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: know when the practices to the games are. So you
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: both can show up if you want to. You know,
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: you have some communication, but it doesn't mean that I
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: get to tell you how long Susie has to brush
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: her teeth.
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  Speaker 3: And in the years that.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I was co-parenting, there wasn't a requirement for communication with
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: the children while they were at the co-parent's house.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Ah, got it. So I didn't even know I was
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: allowed to ask for that. I thought that.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: They're with me when they're with me. And when they're
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: with him, they're with him. And I want him to
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: have his own freedom on his turf because I want
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: my own freedom on my turf. At the same time,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: the message that my children took from that was that
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: they're not allowed to talk to mommy when they're at
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: daddy's and they're not allowed to talk to daddy when
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: they're at mommy's.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: it became very turf related and less communicative.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Got it. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. So many questions.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: So it sounds like you did that for a couple
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: of years. Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Then what happened?
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Then the kids got older, right?
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Like as you know, it was one thing when they
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: were like 11, 14 and 16 and, But as the
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: younger one got older, when they got cars, we gave
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: them more autonomy.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: And then they could make their own choices.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: Actually, they thought that theoretically they could make their own choices,
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: but they still kept to the same schedule.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: That was my experience, too. Yeah.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: They were allowed to do what they wanted, but we
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: were 2-2-5-5.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: Monday, Tuesday at dad's, Wednesday and Thursday at mom's, and
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: then alternating Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: And it became a rhythm that we were used to.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: And we were all able to plan our lives so
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: the kids would know.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And they were used to it. And I think
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that at least my experience was loyalty is big. Yeah.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Loyalty is so big. And when I offered... for my
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: children to create their own schedule, they were like, no,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: we're going to, we're sticking with what you decided.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And they stuck with that through the end of
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: high school anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: And for us, they stuck with it till the end
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: of high school and the holiday schedule is still the
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: holiday schedule.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Like we alternate Thanksgiving.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: We coordinate one day of each of the Jewish holidays.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: We never had like a set plan on vacations. But
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: what has happened is that he takes more vacations and
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: I don't. He has resources for different kinds of vacations.
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: So we don't feel like that needs to be equalized.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Ah, that's nice. Yeah.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: There's some times where I may feel like I'm missing opportunities,
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: but I don't want them not to have opportunities to travel.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: And I would never do that. And, you know, when
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: they were in college and they went abroad, they studied abroad,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: we coordinated so that it would be one weekend and
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: I would come two days early. We would all be
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: together for four days and then he would stay two
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: days later so that they would get alone time with
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: each parent. They would have together time with.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: All of us.
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  Speaker 3: And it was a really nice way to actually see
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: that we could be in the same place at the
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: same time.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. I love that.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it works. Yeah.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: So just to be clear, what you're advocating for now
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: and what it sounds like the research shows now is
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: that even if you're doing parallel co-parenting, that maybe it's
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: not called that anymore because the communication piece is also
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: is so important. And what feels good to the children's
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: hearts is to stay in connection with the other parents
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: when they feel to or when they need to. Right.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Like they need to understand that, you know, Your parents
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: are your parents 24-7, whether they're with you or not.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: And so if you need to call mom when you're.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: At dad's, you're allowed.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: And, you know, I see spaces where sometimes that becomes
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: too overwhelming. Like the child has to have a FaceTime
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: every day with the non-residential spouse when they're with the
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: other spouse. Now, that can be overwhelming because then your
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: space really is invaded.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: The children... feel obligated.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: When they're eight years old and they have to interrupt
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: an activity to call their other parents, it interrupts a schedule.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: So it's really about figuring out what works best and
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: how you can see, like, are the kids going to
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: see the other parent at the extracurricular activities? And, you know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: how does that play into these phone calls? And what
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: needs to really get communicated.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. The other piece was the communication of knowing, right,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: what's happening.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: You know, what your kids have experienced somewhat so that
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: you can be part of their lives. Yeah.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Go on.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I was just thinking about how it's an extra
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: pressure on the kids. Mm-hmm. that it can be helpful
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: if the other parent is willing to communicate directly.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: And is willing to notice that the child really wants
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: to connect.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: With the other parent.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: Like if you're hitting a wall, trying to help a
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: child through a problem and they're just not talking, if
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: you could actually say, you think, you think mommy would
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: be able to help you? Or do you think daddy
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: would be able to help you? We can always call them.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: Like that would shift so much.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: You know, one of the things that is sort of
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: a foundational practice for the BEH2O program that I do
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: is we do things for our co-parent, not because they
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: deserve it, but because our children deserve it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's so beautiful. Absolutely. I remember making an agreement
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: after getting divorced and we were sort of in practice
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: for a little bit. We both realized, or I realized,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure who was like, okay, wait a minute.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: We need to be each other's first default, like first
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: line of, you know, you're going to be away for
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: a day or two. This is not about calling for us.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: It was like, Not about calling a babysitter or even
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: a relative. It was like the first person to ask
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: was the other parent. Yes. Yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: It's huge.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: And we should be writing that into our co-parenting agreements.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: You know, and we can also recognize because that can
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: be taken advantage of, right? Like if someone is never
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: going to be around or rarely going to be around
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: on their time and they, then it becomes overburden for
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: one parent who never wants to say no. We have
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: to really have guidelines for that. There has to be
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: a way to make this the right thing. If you're
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: gone for two hours on an evening because of a
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: late meeting, it could be a babysitter. you know, or
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: two hours is when I'll pitch in, but six hours,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: maybe I was planning to go away that weekend, you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: so it's again, it's something that it depends on how
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: you utilize the methodology that you're incorporating. And it has
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: to be, not just because the children deserve to have
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: both parents all the time, but because you're respecting each
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: other's new space.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: It can be so complex. Yeah.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: That's interesting. The two things you brought up, really. I mean,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I remember for me, I wanted to be like the
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: number one, like when he needed it, two hours or
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: two days or whatever, at least I want it to
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: be asked. Right.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Right. And that makes sense. That totally makes sense.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: And, and I think that, you know, for many people,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: that's what they want.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: But when you may have been in a relationship with
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: someone who traveled very frequently and who went out with
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: their friends all the time and who seemed like during
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: the marriage that They put the children and you second.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: If that were to continue in this new chapter, then
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: you might feel, what did I get out of this
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: if this is still happening?
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see where that could get complicated. And again,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: brings us back to like, what's best for the children?
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: So is that how you spend like a lot of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: your time working, you know, basically coaching co-parents on how
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: to do this really well?
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: You know, a lot of people I work with, we
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: talk about the co-parenting because sometimes this co-parenting is like
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: a turf war and it's really hard, especially when people
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: feel like they've been neglected and that their child has
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: been neglected. So then being open to sharing time is really,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: I have two situations where that right now is a
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: big obstacle for the moms and they don't want to
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: share time at all. And so how do we renegotiate
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: this for.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: What is really best for the child? Like, No matter
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: how you feel, a child deserves a relationship with both parents.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: And that's what I need to share with them because
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: they're not, they can't always see past their own conflict
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: with the spouse because maybe the spouse will respond differently
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: when it's about the child's.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So is that basically your coaching of, I mean,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I certainly have had friends and also, you know, clients
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: who feel that way. Like, nope, I want full custody.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I deserve full custody. And that's the way it should be.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And there's just like anger, anger, anger.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: A lot of people I work with start there. And
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: what I try and help them with is the mindset shift.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: Like we start with the mindset shift. And some of
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: our catchphrases are like, we're going to trade judgment for curiosity.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: Like what is going on with your co-parent when this
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: difficult behavior happens? Not because they deserve your empathy, but
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: because if you can step into their shoes, you can
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: get strategic about how to get what you want. So
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: we call it strategic empathy.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: We won't say it's manipulative.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: No, we don't say that. We call it strategic empathy.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: And it's really not.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: I mean, we have to manipulate things, right? Like that's
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: how the world works. You know, my sisters teach first
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: and second grade and like the math class has manipulatives
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: so they can learn how to do things.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: With their hands.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: So we want to be able to reframe how we
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: approach the same Got it. So if dad is late
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: to pick up and dad is always late to pick up,
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: we might be telling a story in our head. He
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: doesn't care. He doesn't try this, that, and the other thing.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: But what if we asked a different question? Like, I
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: wonder what happened with the train schedule today? Or I
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: wonder what was going on with the New Jersey turnpike?
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: You know, like we can ask.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: A different question instead of coming to a conclusion that
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: we think we're absolutely right about.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I love it because it's a lot of
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: the reframe, you know, I do also in my work.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I love that from judgment to curiosity. That's huge. That
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: is a massive change in the way people live.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a massive change.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: It's the first thing.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: That we offer in the co-parenting commitment is to trade
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: judgment for curiosity. And we just repeat it over and
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: over again because it's a new practice. Just like any practice,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: we have to try it. And very often people aren't
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: even capable of trying it until we can show them
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: how not trying it hasn't gotten them what they need.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Right, right. Wow. Amazing. So as we close, because first
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: I just want to say everybody who's getting divorced or
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: is separated or even for whatever other reason needing to navigate,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: they need a co-parenting coach, 100%.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know how people would do it without. Yeah.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I wonder like, what can you offer? I mean, you
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: just did offer such a kernel of wisdom. I guess
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I wonder if there's anything else you would offer people
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: that are really struggling with this It's a lifelong journey.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: This is a lifelong journey. You're not going to get
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: it right in the beginning. You're going to try and
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: then say, I just can't do this. And that's okay.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Because I just want you to recognize that every time
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: you try, you are changing the neurological patterns in your brain.
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: And it hurts to make change. Like it could be
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: physically painful to make that change emotionally painful, but Each
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: time you try to do the shift, it will get
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: a tiny bit easier.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: And when, when, you.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Know, Susie asks, you know what, I really want to
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: talk to daddy today. And you're feeling it's a knife
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: in the heart. If you can tell yourself, this isn't
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: about me. This is about Susie. And Susie wants to
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: hear her daddy's voice. And I don't have to be jealous.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: even though that's what I feel right now.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Because Susie deserves to have two parents.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: And so if we can keep reiterating that, no matter
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: how we feel, it's hard, but it will make change.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: This is about incremental change that has long-term effects.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, that was so beautifully said, Lisa. And it's,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: it's come back to love. Yeah, it just is. It's
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: a practice of coming back again and again and again
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: to the heart and to really holding space for what's
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: best for the hearts. And it's often really, really challenging.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: So I just want to reiterate what you said for
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: our listeners before we close for today. And that is that,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: you know, every time you make the change, you put
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the intention there with curiosity and put the heart first.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: even if it's hard in the bigger picture, it does
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: get easier. I'm a test testament to that for sure.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: It does get easier and it rewires the brain, which
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: is so important. And that actually creates change. And that's
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: where we're headed here. So thank you so much for,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: for being here, for doing this work. I'll be waiting
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: for your book to come out.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. This is an
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: amazing conversation and you know, It's all about coming back
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: to love, letting go the anger you feel at this
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: other person, which is covering up anger you might be
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: feeling with yourself.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, there you go. Okay, our topic for our next,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: our part two. Yes. Just say where people can find
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: you so they can reach out to get your support
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: and help.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure.
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: So you can find me at LZLcoaching.com and you can
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: book a complimentary 20-minute discovery call there. I work on Zoom,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: so you could be anywhere. Most of my clients are U.S.-based,
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: but I can work anywhere. So I welcome your audience,
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: and thank you for having me.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: You're so welcome. And shout out to everybody who's been
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: listening in. Nice to be with you again this week.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And we'll see you again next Thursday at 1.30 p.m. Pacific, 4.30 p.m. Eastern.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: This is Robin Vogel. Come back to love.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Bye. This is Robin Vogel, host of Come Back to Love.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: If you are ready to heal the.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Past and open your heart to love again, I want
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: to talk with you. Book a free 30-minute private conversation
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: with me at ComeBackToLove.com. I'll meet you where you are
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: and give you real tools you can use right now.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Because love isn't just possible for you. It's waiting for you.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Go to ComeBackToLove.com and book your free 30 minutes today.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to Come Back to Love with Robin Vogel,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: a transformative program that covers an endless array of topics
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: related to relationships, love and intimacy, along with all the
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: reasons you may be keeping love at a distance. Tune
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: in each week as Robin gives you practical tools that
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: can be used to heal the past and help you
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: to safely love again. Join Robin again next week at
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: the same time for Come Back to Love.