Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / Choosing Motherhood Without Prince Charming Chats with Alisha Burns

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Choosing Motherhood Without Prince Charming Chats with Alisha Burns · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the Home of Fertility, a space for real conversation.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_04: Expert insights about fertility, healing, and creating family.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Alice Walker.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Helen Zay.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_04: We talk about it all.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_04: Fertility treatment, holistic support, relationships, mindset, and the emotional highs at least.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body, or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_04: We are so glad you are here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_04: Let's dive in.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_05: So hello, hello to everybody out there, all of you listeners.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_05: And I have a gorgeous lady I'm speaking to today, which is the lovely Alicia Burns.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: How are you doing, beautiful Alicia?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_05: I'm wonderful, Liz.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_05: How are you?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_05: I am also super good.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um and Alicia is she does um something different, which I love.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: We've both been through amazing fertility journeys.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_05: And we have done it in different ways.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_05: We've both had our challenges.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_05: But what I am so admiring of Alicia is the fact that she has done it solo on her own.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_05: So um Alicia is um a solo mum by choice, and it's no need for Prince Charming, which I think is an awesome name.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_05: Because it took me a long time to also find a prince, so to speak.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_05: So I totally get that because I I you know I didn't get married till my third I was 35.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_05: So tell me about No Need for Prince Charming, first of all, beautiful Leisha.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_05: Tell tell me a bit about you, share who you are, I love.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think like a lot of people, I grew up in the 80s and I had all of the typical fairy tales read to me, and the whole purpose of life was to find a Prince Charming, get married, have a big house in the suburbs, and you know, three to four children.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for my full my whole life, that was my focus on finding who was my my prince, my husband.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up getting married at 28.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought everything was coming into fruition.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I had the career, and then we tried to start a family and went through three years of infertility that quite frankly destroyed me as a person.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: All of my friends around me were getting married and then kind of pregnant the next month, and I was just getting negative after negative after negative.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, became that person who cried in the toilets of work every day because some random stranger that I didn't know was pregnant.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally went through fertility treatment, a few rounds of IUI and IVF and was finally successful.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So finally I thought the fairy tale was coming true.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yay.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then we had a scan with uh OB, which led to those awful words of, I'm sorry, there's no longer a heartbeat.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and the next day I had to be induced and deliver my stillborn son.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um to make matters worse, the the emotional toll that for infertility had taken on our relationship, my husband then left two weeks later for another woman.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh so nice big uh shit sample.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's huge.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: That's huge.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I just really want to acknowledge this journey that you've been through and um yeah, just you know, really acknowledge that the the path that we walk, which can be so challenging, and then we come out of that with goodness.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_05: So I just really wanted to acknowledge that for you, Alicia.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think I'm in such a great place now that I can see my son's death as an ultimate gift, really.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because he helped me see my husband for his true colours and meant that I wasn't, you know, stuck with him for the rest of my life, co-parenting or something like that.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think the relationship probably would have lasted anyway in hindsight.
• 4:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: And so why do you think so many women are now choosing to have children on their own?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's quite a few things with it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: For me, finding myself single at 32 and going back into the dating pool is incredibly challenging.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we we're trying so desperately.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And after a while, you get to a point where you're so aware of your short fertility window that you kind of start dating everyone and just like, are you my future partner?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are you my future father of my children?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: You put so much pressure on relationships.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then society has told you you need to have someone to have a relationship and have a family with.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you then start putting on these rose-tinted glasses and you're kind of settling for behavior that you'd never let your friends or people that you love put up with, but you think that you need to get that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: It hasn't really been an option for us for all that long, and it's still not that common.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: So people don't even realize that this is an option.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we really need to thank the generations of women before us who really fought to allow us to do this and they've brought us up to be these incredible empowered women that can now, you know, have an education, have a career, buy a home by ourselves.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need a husband to sign loan documents for us.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can actually do everything on our own, yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Which means that we've now changed our standards and we want a partner who's going to be an equal and going to build a beautiful life together, not just tick a box so that I can have a husband to have children.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a lot of men that maybe don't know how to deal with women like that as well, or they all get snapped up earlier.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself single in your 30s, it can be very hard to find that equal.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of get to the point where you're like, do I risk waiting around for Prince Charming, hope he turns up before my fertility window closes and there's a chance I'm going to miss out?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do I settle for someone not worthy and then eventually might end up co-parenting or having not the ideal home life that I want for my children?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or do I take matters into my own hands?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact is, in 2010, like it hasn't been that long, Victoria made it legal for single women to access donor gametes.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not been an option that long, but now it is.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: The only real barrier usually is financial or having the belief in yourself that you can do it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it can be our belief, isn't it?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_05: And I think, you know, in some ways, women have been doing this for years.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_05: Haven't they?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_05: Being, in a way, the solo parent because of one thing or another, you know, the relationship breaks down, or sometimes partners work away.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_05: So in reality, it's happened for actually quite some time.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_05: But now, you know, you don't need to have that partner, even though they may go away.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_05: So it's, yeah, it is.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's taking the power back, isn't it?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a big differentiation between being a solo mum by choice and a single mum by circumstance.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Women that is single mothers didn't go into it expecting that that's what was going to happen.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then they've got to deal with a relationship breakdown or the death of a partner, which is hugely traumatic.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: But then they've got to navigate co-parenting and all the financial burden of going through, custody battles and everything else that that puts on you.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you start on the back foot.
• 7:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas going into this as a deliberate intentional decision that you're going to parent on your own, you've done ridiculous amounts of research.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You've got your budget sorted, you've set your life up to enable that.
• 7:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no resentment to a partner that's maybe not, you know, living up to the expectations of what you expect from a partner or who lets you down or the relationship ends.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know it's all on you.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a really freeing place to come into, knowing that that's the situation as well.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_05: And look, my lovely sister-in-law.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um again, she couldn't, she didn't have a prince charming.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_05: And um, and um, so she was just like, right, it's not that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_05: So she's got two beautiful girls, you know, and she had them both before I did.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, she was part of my journey of having to let go because she got pregnant and I didn't.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_05: And um, so yeah, she's been exactly the same, a solo mum by choice.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_05: And so, what do you think are the biggest fears that women may have about this path?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, most of the women I see in my early considering solo motherhood course have pretty similar fears.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: They fear that they're going to be really lonely.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: They fear that they won't be able to handle it financially, they fear that they're gonna get a lot of judgment from society or from other people, and they fear that it's gonna be harder than if they parented with a partner.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for most of those, those are fears that every parent has.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like every parent worries about a financial situation.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Every parent worries that it's gonna be hard or that they're not gonna be good enough.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the fact that you worry about it just shows that you care so much about the outcome.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Surely that's gonna make you a good parent anyway, because you care about what happens.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_05: True, true.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_05: And yes, they are exactly the same fears we have anyway.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: The judgment one is an interesting one.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where it comes from, but we all assume we're gonna get it.
• 9:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's very rare that it happens.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And most people, because it's such a deliberate decision, and the people who you're telling that you're pregnant on your own know whatever you've been through to get to that point and make that decision.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you're not settling for someone just to have a child or going to miss out, but you're making it happen.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people think that's really inspirational.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people describe it as brave.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: We don't see it necessarily as brave, those of us who have done it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there are a lot of people who wouldn't have the courage to do it because they're so worried about those fears that hold them back that don't necessarily come true in reality.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wish more women could hear that and know, you know, and there's so much beautiful support and a beautiful community out there to help you through this as well.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And things change so much, but it's just, yeah, it's actually a really beautiful path to parenthood.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish I'd made this decision earlier and not wasted so much time dating and trying to find someone when knowing how wonderful it could have been on the other side of it.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's a really good point to make is you know, the fear of judgment.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_05: But actually, that judgment is an illusion, isn't it?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_05: And there is, you know, it's true, you know, like from my sister-in-law, it was just like, yes, you've got to do it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_05: But and um, you know, just hearing from you earlier saying, you know, I wish I'd done it earlier, but sometimes we have to have that squeeze to realize, what am I doing?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_05: I can do it on my own.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_05: Let's just go for this.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_05: So it's, and this is where the I suppose the power of the decision and supporting this path becomes even deeper and greater.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: So, what should women consider who are um what should women know who are just who are considering this path now?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first thing is, regardless of if it's just the tiniest idea, go to your GP, get some basic tests done to understand your fertility situation and have an initial appointment with a fertility specialist.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And just understand, do you have the luxury of time to make this decision or should you be taking action now?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, through my podcast, I've seen so many women who thought that they had plenty of time to then have to have a very, very long and sometimes ended up with donor eggs or donor embryos because they have left it too late, because there's just not a w enough awareness of our our own bodies or our own fertility situation.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Just because you're having periods doesn't mean necessarily that your fertility is in a good place.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So understand that first and then start working through what is the ideal life that you'd like for yourself?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do you see yourself in five years' time?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you're 80, who do you want around your Christmas table?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: How important are kids really to you?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And are you willing to wait until the perfect partner comes along?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you willing gonna, or are you gonna set it like a deadline of when they have to arrive by before you'll take it into your own hands?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do that, then you have to be actually making a real conscious effort and doing everything you can to meet someone as well.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not willing to change behavior, then why is that gonna change?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think really putting yourself out there if you're still not okay with doing it without a partner, giving it your all and just knowing that on this date, if it hasn't worked out, then I'll I'll do it on my own.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then just understanding what that would be like.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Join some of the communities like my Facebook, the solo mom society Facebook community.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Start going to meetups and just learn from other people who have been there before you.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Understand what that's really like as a solo mom.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And podcasts and support groups and stuff out there where you can just really get a good gauge of maybe I can do this.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's not as bad as what's in my head.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's actually easier in a lot of ways than having a child in a relationship.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, maybe.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, how long would you really need to be with someone before you knew that they were the right person to have a family with?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I know.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_05: Well, for me and my husband, I know that we we knew, well, we met later on in life and we just knew.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: So, but it's not it's not that for everybody.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_05: And a few of my friends, it's not been, you know, it's we all live that different life.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_05: So it's a really good thing to go and check that out.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I love also what you said about being aware of our body, understanding our body, and where is our fertility in all of that?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because again, I I didn't realize until I couldn't get pregnant, you know, what's going on with my body.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I didn't know.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: So there's so many things I didn't know.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_05: And this is exactly why um I've created the, you know, last year I created the Melbourne, um, the Australian Fertility Summit, and this year the Melbourne Fertility Expo, which I'm so excited that you are gonna be there talking as well and being part of this, is about creating the knowing, the understanding, because it's all about, you know, helping women's health, you know, understanding our bodies.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_05: There's so much I didn't know.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_05: You that's the assumption of I'll just get pregnant.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're taught at school if you hold hands with a boy, you're gonna get pregnant, aren't you?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody tells you that you've got such actually a short fertility window, and we're all going off and getting educated and getting careers and things, and thinks we've got plenty of time.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm 45.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel 45, I feel like I keep going great.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just the biological clock doesn't necessarily align with uh the money?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, and what and what we think.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I I remember, you know, just spending years praying I wouldn't get pregnant.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_05: And then when I realized and then praying I would get pregnant, and I remember, you know, it kind of dawned on me just going, oh my goodness, this is quite mad, isn't it?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_05: You know, just fear when you're younger of getting pregnant.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: That we actually have to waste all that money on contraception, who knows?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's really, really interesting.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_05: So, yes, and the more we can understand our fertility, our body, um, and understanding our cycles, um, our hormonal balance and what that is, and support us with that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's it's really creates uh knowledge and power for ourselves and our own body.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm constantly astounded by the amount of women who start this journey and then learn that they have like severe endometriosis or other things like that.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: They had no idea about it's like, but they've suffered their whole life.
• 15:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: No idea until they start down this journey.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it can be life-changing in so many ways.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_05: It it really can.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, we just think, oh, you know, I just I just have painful periods or this is just how it is.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and we haven't thought to find out about it.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_05: And look, that was me.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_05: That was so me.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_05: I remember having really painful periods, but I just thought, oh, that's how it is.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we don't know what we don't know.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_05: And um, you know, in a way, my fertility journey allowed me to learn about my body and who I am as a woman.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really going through carrying a child and stuff as well, and the the amazing things that can come with that just really helps define you as well, doesn't it?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_05: It it absolutely does.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_05: And um, I think it's so powerful now in this day and age that we start to understand who who we are um and our cycles and what it means to be a woman.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's it's it's it's so important because I I just didn't know when I was young.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_05: So I I really want to empower my daughter to have much more knowledge than I had.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same.
• 16:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_05: So I know we touched on it slightly earlier.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, what is all the support that's available to women considering the past?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_05: So you said there was um uh some support groups.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I've started Solo Mum Society, which is basically everything I wish I had had when I went through this journey.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So through Solo Mum Society, I run courses which help you at different stages of the journey.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's considering solo motherhood, which really just helps save you hours of Googling.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can get to the bottom of all of those fears, understand your options when it comes to choosing a donor, because there's so many different pathways you can come through and the the pros and cons of all of them and how to get pregnant, whether you're doing that at home or through a clinic, choosing mindset stuff, all of that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of that, you can make an informed and empowered choice whether this is the right path for you.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Then we've got um expecting solo, which is when you're kind of trying to conceive or early pregnancy to help you have those empowered conversations with telling people that this is your journey, getting it clear in your mind so it doesn't come across as like a last resort, but making you feel really empowered, the fact that you're doing this.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, dealing with some, if you do get some weird reactions and helping you see maybe some boundaries that you need to create, um, what pregnancy will be like solo and some things that you can do to really bring some joy to that process.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And preparing for solo motherhood, which is what you do sort of second trimester or third trimester to really set yourself up for success when the baby comes home, because it will all be on your shoulders.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: But there are lots of different things that you can put in place to make that as easy as possible.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Throughout all of the pregnancy and trying to conceive, we have the bump membership as well, which is just a wonderful community for women.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we have like fortnightly Zoom connection calls.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because even if you've got friends that have been through fertility treatment, it's still not the same as doing it on your own.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you just need the other woman at the same stage that can be your cheerleaders, that can be your confidant if something's you're not having a good day, they they really get it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's like a private WhatsApp chat that comes with that as well, which is just the most beautiful space, and everyone's cheering each other on good days, bad days.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we've had some graduates that have had babies already, and it's just so beautiful to see them transition through it all.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_05: There's also the I love that group.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_05: I absolutely love that the bump membership and letting you know you're not alone, you know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I that I just think that's awesome.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_05: Well done, you, Alicia.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_05: Bump member, I just think that's that's that's awesome.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_05: That's like the little cherry on top.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like, even when you've had the baby, and yes, you are a solo mum, you're not solo.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a just about to launch a new mum membership as well, which should be live by the expo.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's okay.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, most people, if they're solo when they join a mother's group, they can find it kind of hard to relate because everyone's sitting there complaining about their partners most of the time, and they don't have that.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there's almost this guilt if they're finding it easy or guilt if they're finding it hard because they asked for this.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so to have a group of women at the same stage throughout Australia that just really get it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: It just is gonna make such a difference for those new mums and you know, practical things.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you're struggling with something, how do you do this?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, couples would say, I would just get my partners to go to the shop and do this.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, we can't do that.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, you can't have other people at the same stage.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's um coming sooner will be by the expo.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then there's also a private Facebook community, and that's got what about 3,000 members now, and that's everyone from just making the decision through to who has kids, um, and just a great place to get support and advice and and have some fun along the way.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then every year I have a retreat, which has so far been in Barling.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a third one coming up, and that's really important for the mums to have some time out and just relax and bond with other solo mums, but also for the kids to really normalize their families and see that there are lots of other families that look like theirs and that are donor-conceived as well.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we have monthly meetups as well, locally.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of different ways.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: My child is my daughter, is just so fine with being just a solo mum family and being donor conceived.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think she just assumes that no one has dads.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, because we spend so much time with other solo mums.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's also some great books and things, like I wrote a children's book to try and just normalize that there are so many different ways to make a family, there's no one right way, and normalize the language associated with donor conception.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And Sarah LC shows, you know, blended families as well as two mums, two dads, solo mom, um, divorced families, all of those sort of things as well.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: All those things.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Every family is perfect, no matter how they're created.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: You know, love, love is the key, you know, and that's what's creates, you know, that's that area of belonging and knowing, you know, we're we're enough.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_05: This is just awesome, Alicia.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_05: Everything that you've created here.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's you know, that the all of that community, and I think community is so, you know, it's the village, isn't it?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it takes a village, and that village may be different for all these, for all different people, you know, but it is that village that is so important.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, that's probably the biggest surprise for me out of this journey was the incredible friendships and community that I've made as a result of this path.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's women that I wouldn't have come across in everyday life, but I'd say probably 90% of my closest friends now are rather solo mums by choice.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just the most beautiful, non-judgmental, inclusive community.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because everyone's been through something to get to this point, and everyone just wants to celebrate each other and help each other thrive.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's no, there's no competition in it.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's amazing.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it just makes me so proud every day when I see some of the conversations and the support that happens, especially in the Facebook group.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they're making their own dreams come true.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can you not be inspired surrounded by women like that?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, absolutely.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's so inspiring.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_05: And to create that community and like 3,000 members, that's like, you know, heart opening.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we all want the same outcome, you know, is to be the best we can and to create these beautiful beings into being the best that they can.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: So we're all on that same path, you know.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_05: And um, with each other's help, um, we can make that happen.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And just the power of woman coming together can just some really phenomenal things can happen as well.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_05: Oh God, I just love the feeling of this.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_05: So tell me a bit about the retreats.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, um, that sounds really exciting.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_05: What made you have the idea to create the retreats?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So randomly I put on Facebook, I think I had my daughter in lockdown.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it was all a bit weird.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you break you break person you.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we didn't know.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Completely alone, no support.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: My mother couldn't get to the country.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was fine.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um but once borders opened up, I was like, I want to do something.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I want to go to Fiji.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I put it on Instagram and said, Does anyone want to come with me?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the other solo mums that I've become friends with in Sydney was like, Yeah, I'll come with you.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so we went, and then we were just I um was working corporate at that stage and had a partnership with the hotel company and managed to get us uh a few treats for my birthday, and we were at the adults only pool while the kids were at kids club and just started talking and brainstorming some ideas.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this could be a bigger thing.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: This could be something that you know more mums could could do.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like the fact you can go, even if your child goes to sleep at seven o'clock, you're still in a beautiful hotel room where you can get bath service and you don't have to do the dishes, you don't have to do the light admin, you can just relax for once, yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then bonding with other women who just get it.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to explain yourself.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you just want to stay in your room and sleep the whole time and put your kid in kids' clubs or in anything.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the first year I think we had 24 mums, and then this year we had 39 and 44 kids.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So wow just finalizing the details for for next year.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a meeting out for this actually on that.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_05: So and so have you gone to the same place or different places?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: We went to the same place the last two years.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: See each year I think and see what we can do.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's all it doesn't really matter where it is.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's about having a luxury experience at a reasonable price, and it's about the community and just relaxing.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it just happens to be in Bali.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because there's so many cheaper, no matter where you are in Australia, and you get that level of luxury for a more affordable price than if, say, we went to Fiji or State Australia.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, and you can go and take the kids, and it's like a win-win.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody has fun and enjoyment.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And have daily massages in their in their room, and you know, there's a beach, there's great restaurants, there's great pools, and it's just relax.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe finally read that book that's been in a pile for the last you know, five years we've got around together.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I do have a books, books, book, of, book, uh a pile of books that I'm trying to doing my best to get to, so I understand that one.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I I good on you, Alicia.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's just awesome.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: So um, being a solo mum, do you think it's as hard as people, you know, assume it would be?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I think in a lot of ways it's much easier.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think parenting in general is always going to have its hard moments.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: But what makes it more difficult is all the peripheral things that come around parenting.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So having to maintain a relationship on top of parenting to me sounds exhausting, especially in like the newborn days.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: To be able to just focus on my daughter and myself.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: If she went to bed at seven and I was tired, I could.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: The dishes could wait.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to cook a proper dinner, didn't have to worry about having an adult conversation, just prepared.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so, for a lot of ways, it can just make life so much simpler.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to negotiate on anything or I don't have to compromise.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I get to create the life that I want for myself and my daughter.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really freeing.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think going into it, I hadn't given up on Prince Charming.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was quite convinced I'd meet him while I was pregnant.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: That did not happen.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: But for the first time in my life, to be so content in myself that I don't feel like I'm missing anyone to need a partner.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: An incredible place to be as well.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm not saying I won't find love in the future, but it's not a priority for me.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, my life is so full as it is, and I just have so much joy every day.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And my daughter brings that for me, and it's like, this is what was missing.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_05: They are, yeah.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_05: They're such joy things.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_05: And look, being happy now, being in that space of presentness and being happy, you know, I think that's one of the biggest gifts we can have.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I saw a great meme.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, I didn't realize when I became a mother that I'd meet a whole new person, and I didn't realize that person would be me.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just changed me in so many ways.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't believe it.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've thought I never could have imagined I'd be this happy.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so grateful that I made this decision and then it's even an option available to us.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_05: Look, and I I I hear that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_05: I think when, you know, if it's if if it's the path of people wanting to have children, and you know, for me it was a 10-year journey to to have my little one, and I only have the one as well.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, she's such a gift, and I learned so much from her, you know.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_05: And and I think that the saying of, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher will arrive, you know, I say you're my biggest teacher, you know, and I think it's so true.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Currently I'm learning about K-pop demon hunters, but yeah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, me too.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_05: I have you.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_05: It's um we sing it to school.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: We have all the words, we have dance routines.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: But even those little moments of watching her in a dance class makes me quite emotional.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there's such a chance that I could have missed out on this.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I had her six weeks before I turned 40, and it took two rounds of IVF to get her that time, and I'd already been through infertility years earlier.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, and so many people could miss out on this because they think that they have to have a partner.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_05: And this is what I yeah, and I absolutely love hearing this because this this is again a lot of the reasons of having the Melbourne Fertility Expo is we don't know what we don't know.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_05: And um, the reason for the expo is about bringing all of this knowledge together under one roof and being able to bring the medical and the complementary together and everybody in between.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_05: And what I love is you're like this extra bit of knowledge and understanding and your path where it's we you can share and have this as part of, you know, did you realize all these options, all this understanding?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: And this might be something that's perfect for you.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so I'm so so um um full of gratitude and happiness that you're gonna be at um the Melbourne Fertility Expo.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_05: So, what for you pulled pulled you to the fertility expo?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think just the opportunity to help women see that they have options and to see that early.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if they may be turning up to the expo thinking, I really want to have kids in the future, I want to learn more, say about egg freezing, so I've got options.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Even taking away, okay, maybe this is something I can consider.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe if they do my course and then just understand everything that's involved.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when they're ready to make the decision, they're not having to start from scratch because they'll have that information.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: If it's just the tiniest seed of an idea at this point, just get in, just get educated on what's involved.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll know if it's right for you or not.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one of those things when I went in this path because of my history, because mine was 12 years to get my daughter, and it's like, I will do two rounds, that's it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know how much of the emotional vortex that I went into and I didn't want to become that person.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't want to look back and wonder what if.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll do two rounds if it doesn't work out, I'll close the door on it and move forward childless.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't have been an easy door to close, but I would have known that I would never look back and go, What if?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what if I'd just taken a chance and worked it out?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the thing that you will always work it out.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Everything you've got through until this point, you've found a way through, you've done it.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same with parenting, whether you're in a couple or not.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: You will find a way.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you just have to trust yourself that you'll be able to do it.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we're those things wrong, every parent does.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if children are something that's really important to you and you want in your future and you aren't finding the right partner to do that with, there are other options.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not closing the door on love.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's just meaning that hopefully one part of that is guaranteed.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_05: And the thing is you don't have to wait.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, I can do this now.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_05: I you know, I I have me, and me is good enough.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Me is generally more than enough.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I love it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_05: Me is more than enough.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: One really loving parent.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And all the research coming out now is showing that children from solo mum by choice families are having equal or better outcomes than all other family types.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that maybe comes back to the fact it's such an intentional decision.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that by the time you've made it, your your child is your world.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if they want to, I don't know, see what a horse skeleton looks like, you're gonna stop what you're doing and you're gonna help them do that because they are that important to you.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not trying to maintain a relationship and everything else on top of it.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it'd be such a beautiful way to find a family if you don't think that right person.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or what I'm seeing a lot of now is people who actually never want a partner but they want children.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or women who have children from a previous relationship that's broken down and they don't want to risk co-parenting again, but they're not done and they want to have siblings.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Good point well made.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of opportunity and lots of it's just it's the fastest growing parenting group, I think, in them in the world.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we're awesome.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So lucky to live in Australia where it is reasonably accessible.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, Alicia, I love it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_05: And um, I just think it's so empowering.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, the children of the next generation are are so lucky to have all of this love, you know.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's just, and this is where they can grow up because um without having the arguments of parents, you know, it's just that they can just be so full of love and possibility, and that's that's gotta be good, hasn't it?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: One of the my favorite things that one of my podcast guests said the other day is that they were raising the son to be the man that they always wanted to find.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, Oh, I love that.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_05: That's that's deep and beautiful, and and yes, that's what this world needs, you know.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And for all our daughters to grow up with a mum who just went after their goals and made their dreams happen and didn't wait for someone else to make that happen.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are they gonna have limitations on themselves?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: They've already got their role model.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's pretty exciting.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_05: That's so exciting, it's so beautiful.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_05: And um, yeah, I just love all of the words you have to say.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_05: So, Alicia, if there was something you would like to share, like the a last sort of top tip um for everybody, what would that be?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Just one.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um, well, you know, you can have more, but it's uh just just trying to name something, you know, if there's something you would like to leave this conversation with.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think the most the biggest one for me is you can find true love at any age, but becoming a mum has a time limit.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, wow.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it's okay to go for it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes true love comes in the little person that you create as well.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_05: It's a whole different type of true love that's you know, all encompassing and so deep within that heart and connection.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's um yeah, it's it's so powerful and finding that different part of ourselves in in in motherhood and parenthood.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_05: Alicia, thank you.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, thank you so much for these wonderful words and and um helping me understand solo mum um in a much deeper way because I like I had my idea, you know.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, of course, you know, if can't find a man, go for it.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_05: But in a way, I've I feel like I've learned a real deeper sense of this that has been really beautiful to know and um allowed me to reflect on mine and um just just the beauty of being able to bring children in that we so want and understand about ourselves.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_05: And um that long journey is has become for something that we've turned like uh like a trauma into treasure, you know.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Liz.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to meet more people at the Melbourne Fertility Expo as well.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much for putting that on.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's gonna help so many people on various journeys.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_05: That is the prayer.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_05: That is the prayer.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Alicia, and I look forward to seeing you in person on uh for the Melbourne Fertility Expo, which is going to be on the 8th of November 2025.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_05: A beautiful big day at um the Box Hill Town Hall, and allowing everybody, you know, to you can come in with loads of questions and you can leave with answers, you can leave with clarity and having learned more than you realized and um experienced more than I think you um you would realize too.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_05: Alicia, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your understanding of you know, stepping, walking in your life in the best way possible.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're very welcome.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on this.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, an absolute pleasure.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_05: And with that, I will say goodnight.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_05: Ah, good night.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_05: With that, I will say goodbye.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_05: And letting everybody know, you know, it if there's something that you want, you can just go for it.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us at the Home of Fertility.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort, and connection.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_04: If this podcast resonated, please share it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: Leave a review or subscribe.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook at Australian Fertility Summit.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: Remember the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom, or something new just made for you.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: Take care, and we'll see you next time.