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ALEX MURDAUGH JUROR: 'I WAS PRESSURED TO FIND HIM GUILTY!" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grease.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Alex Murdog, the South of Carolina heir to illegal dynasty,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: the millionaire who also gunned down his wife and son
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: in cold blood, has just come out of South Carolina
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: courtroom where his bid for a new trial was examined
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: over and over and over the point did the court clerk?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Did the court clerk taint the jury and caused them
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: to render a guilty verdict? You know what this means, right,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: we would have to do the entire Alex Murdog double
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: murder trial again, except the second time around the defense
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: would have the state's playbook. And I guarant to you
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the defense would never put Alex and Murdog back on
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the stand. All that s nodding and crying and slobbering
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: and uh just playing to the jury getting caught in
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: his own lies. That wouldn't happen. Second, the defense would
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: never have a huge slip of the tongue and bring
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: in Murdoch's financial crimes to the tune of millions and
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: millions of dollars he was stealing from his paraplegic clients,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: and on and on and on. Oh no, it would
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: be a whole another movie. If there was a retrial
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: in the last hours. A judge rules that the defense
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: is full of it. Let me try a technical legal term,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: full of bs okay, I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: and on serious exem one eleven. What a day in
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: that South Carolina courtroom. Again. I never thought that it
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: would come to this. All right, this judge is awesome.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Although I'm very curious because the camera's called her winking
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: at somebody. I would like to find out about that.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: But first, let's just get to Alex Murdoch's bid for
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: a new murder trial. Excuse me, double murder trial. Listen
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: to the judge.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: The facts did clerk of court? He'll make comments to
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: any jewel or which expressed her opinion of what the
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: verdict would be. Mss Hill denies a, and so the
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: question becomes was her denial credible? I find that the
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: clerk of court is not completely credible. As a witness.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Miss Hill was attracted by the siren call of celebrity.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: She wanted to write a book about the trial, and
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: expressed that as early as November twenty twenty two, long
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: before the trial began.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I love this judge. Okay, I may not feel the
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: same way if there have been a different ruling. But
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: what about that miss Hill was attracted by the siren
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: call of celebrity. Wow, this judge is quite the wordsmith.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Did you hear her say that Becky Hill, the court
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: clerk was quote attracted by the siren call of celebrity.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Did she just pull that out of her own hat
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: or did she have that ready? Okay, back in the courtroom, listen.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: She denies that this is so, but I find that
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: she stated to the Clerk of Court, Randa McKelvin and
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: others her desire for a guilty verdict because it would
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: sell books. She made comments about Murdoch's demeanor as he testified,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: and she made some of those comments before he testified
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: to at least one and maybe more jewelorids.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. Becky Hill was right that only
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: a guilty verdict would issure book sales because a lot
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: of people made a lot of money after Top Mom
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Casey Anthony was found not guilty. That said, you are
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: hearing the judge laying down the law, joining me in
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: All Star panel. But first to Jennifer Wood, director of
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Research at fitznews dot com. And let me tell you
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: about fitz News. They've been all up in this story
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: from the beginning. They have been three inches up Alex
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Murdock's tailpipe and the prosecution telepipe. They have been on
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: everybody like a cheap suit since Maggie and Paul Murdoch
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: were found dead. And now this I'm going to get
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: to the rest of the panel in just one moment
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: with Jennifer Wood. I mean, when we started this jury trial,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: could you ever have imagined that everybody's going to be
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: sitting in court long after the verdict talking about did
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Becky Hill the court clerk, tank the jury and make
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: them vote guilty? Did you ever even imagine that? I
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: did not.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: I absolutely did not see any of this coming. It
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: completely surprised me.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: It's still surprises me because let me bring in Tim Jansen,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: a high profile lawyer who's followed the case as well,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: partner at Jansen and Davis. You can find him at
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Jansenlawoffice dot com. Tim, isn't it true? And you and
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I both tried a lot of cases that at the
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: end of a trial, if the defense attorney knows anything
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: at all, they know to pull the jury. Typically three
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: questions are asked during the polling. Is this your verdict?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Was this your vertict in the jury room? Is it
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: still your verdict? Sometimes those questions are a little bit different.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: There are variations in different jurisdictions. But this jury was polled,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and that's typically the end of it. When a juror says,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: this is my verdict, this was my verdict in the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: jury room, and this is still my verdict. That's the
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: end of it. That's their chance to say, you know,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. That's their chance, And none of these
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: jurors did that. Do you agree?
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: I agree every trial i've polled a jury win or lose. Well,
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: when the state loses, they pulled. But when I lose,
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: I would poll them. Only in one case in thirty
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: eight years I had a juror say no and start crying,
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: and then the jury was rushed out and then they
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: came back fifteen minutes later with the guilty. But yeah,
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: it's standard to pull the jury.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And it sounds like she got a beat down in
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: the jury deliberations room.
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: She didn't look.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: They're like hub l n oh, we're going home tonight,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: little lady. Yeah, that's probably what happened in the junior.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: So hey, but you got it one time. I have
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: never had a Gurr breakdown during polling and go, oh
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: it wasn't my verdict. That's amazing. It very rarely happens,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: but you actually had one happened, Shoe. The outcome was
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: the same in the end, but you actually had a
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: gr crack. And my point is that was her chance
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to say this, I don't really think he's guilty.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: She did not, And I guess the only basis now
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: was there tampering or evidence that the jury was painted?
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: And I think they went through the process.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Boy, they really did. In addition to Tim Jansen, high
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: profile lawyer and Jennifer Woods joining us from fits News,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: doctor Michelle Dupree, who shot to the fore the country's
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: consciousness when she was on this case from the beginning,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: high profile pathologist, medical examiner and detective from this jurisdiction,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalysts joining us out of LA
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: and Chris McDonough, former homicide detective three hundred homicides under
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: his belt and star of the Interview Room YouTube channel.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, could you just tell me about what was
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: happening in the courtroom before we go back to listen
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: to the judge tell me the whole thing. I want
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: everybody to hear what you already know it was.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, it was tense, it was wild. You know,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: there are a lot of moments when you could hear
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: gas from the gallery. You know, everybody was very respectful,
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: but there were just a lot of things that happened
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: during the hearing that caused jaws to drop.
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: It was.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: It was a very unexpected and wild day.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Chris mcdunn adjoining me, Director Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: star of The Interview Room on YouTube. Chris, how many
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: times have you sat by and seen a perfectly guilty
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: murderer walk free? And it just it actually makes my skin.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: It gave me chill bunps when I said that, because
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: it can be constitutional that the defendant walks free. For instance,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: they weren't giving their miranda rights and therefore their confession
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: is suppressed, or the eyewitness is destroyed on the STEMD
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: because you find out it was at night, they weren't
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: wearing their glasses. I mean, it can be any number
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: of things. The judge gives the wrong jurey instruction and
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: the case is reversed and there's a plea for time
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: served because the state doesn't think they can, you know,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: make the case again a million reasons. When you see
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: a guilty killer walk free through no fault of your own,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: and you know this guy did it. He did it,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: you know he did it, and it just eats you
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: up on the inside. You ever had that feeling, because.
• 10:27
  Speaker 7: I have, absolutely, and it is the worst. You know,
• 10:32
  Speaker 7: there's the emotional response from everybody, and obviously as an investigator,
• 10:39
  Speaker 7: you've put so many hours into it and you've brought
• 10:43
  Speaker 7: justice to the family and then all of a sudden
• 10:46
  Speaker 7: there's that technicality in the courtroom. You just it's just
• 10:49
  Speaker 7: sometimes unimaginable how you feel.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And to think this whole thing and go right down
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: the crapper another Latin phrase from law school, because allegedly
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the court clerk was more concerned about making money off
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: a book containing the jury. Oh, and I'll be put
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: it out there. I met Becky Hill. I liked her.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: She seemed to me very punctual, she was excellent at
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: her job, she was courteous. I couldn't believe that she
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: did this thing that was alleged, and I also thought
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: if she did do it, it was inadvertant. And I
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: found it very difficult to believe that a juror would
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: reach a guilty verdict in a double murder because of
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: something the court clerk said. But that was me going
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: into it in case anyone has forgotten what this is
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: really about. The bullet riddled bodies. A first, Paul I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: like some Murdock's son, and then as his mother tried
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: to go to her son who was dying, she also
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: was gunned down dead. Take a listen to this nine
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: to one one call and now I won't win your emergency.
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: Modock tell me one forty seven mosaille roads.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I think the police, my.
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: Wife and top. Okay, you said forty one forty seven
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: mobile road and knowlogin, Sir, you said forty one forty
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: seven mozel rode in knowlogan, Yes, sir, forty one road.
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: Stay on the line with me, yes, Thursday on the
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: line with me. Okay, Okay, con communication Colleton, I have
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: an Alex Murdoch on the line. Callers from forty one
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: forty seven moll Role.
• 12:42
  Speaker 8: He's advising that his wife and child.
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: Was shot okay, and so give me the address again.
• 12:49
  Speaker 9: It's forty one, forty seven, Mozelle wrote, I've been up
• 12:53
  Speaker 9: to it now it's.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Bad, okay, okay.
• 12:57
  Speaker 8: And are they breathing?
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: No, ma'am okay. And it's your wife and your son,
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: a wife and my sorn are le No, ma'am there
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: on the ground out at my kennel.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: You can stop it. I don't know that I can
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: hear any more of his lying and fate crying, or
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: maybe he worked himself into a fit so he actually
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: could cry. But you know, let me go to someone
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I absolutely do trust completely. Doctor Michelle dupre joining us
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: from this jurisdiction, Columbia, South Carolina pathologist, medical examiner, detective
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: and author of Money, Mischief and Murder The Murdog Saga
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the rest of the story on Amazon. But more important
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: than that, she actually wrote the book Homicide Investigation Field Guide.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Can we just remind everybody it's not about just a
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: hearing where one juror claims that her decision was tainted
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: by a comment from the court clerk. Tell me describe
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: the bodies, Doctor Dupree, Well.
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: Nancy Day were horrific. First, Paul, of course, was shot
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: with a shotgun. That is a devastating blow. It basically
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: destroys the body where the target is hit. Maggie, she
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: was shot four maybe five times with a high powered rifle,
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: same thing. Those are devastating injuries to the body. There's
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: just not much else to say.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Let's hear a little bit more of twenty six.
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: One.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, is he bringing at all? No? No? Okay, see anyone, No, ma'am, No,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: ma'am your.
• 14:43
  Speaker 10: House on the outside.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Okay. I can't. I can't take it, Doctor Bethany Marshall,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I can't take it. He is so why of course
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: he doesn't see anybody else around. He's the killer, That's
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: why he doesn't see anybody. How do you stand to
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: listen to people lie and snot and cry and carry
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: on like that. I mean, you probably listen to it
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: every day in your office, Nancy.
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: This reminds me of acting classes, where the students have
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: to work themselves up into a state in order to
• 15:13
  Speaker 8: express themselves in a certain role. And I think your
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: point that he may have just worked himself into this
• 15:20
  Speaker 8: is excellent because this sounds sort of practiced. It sounds
• 15:24
  Speaker 8: like methodical, like he thought about this for a long
• 15:27
  Speaker 8: time Nancy. He knew he was going to have to
• 15:29
  Speaker 8: place that nine to one one call. You know, even
• 15:32
  Speaker 8: though he's a cold blooded killer, even though he was
• 15:34
  Speaker 8: not attached to his wife and son. It is traumatic
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: to shoot somebody, you know. It takes a lot to
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: kill other people.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know what you know. I thought i'd like
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: to you, Bethany Marshall, can you tell me it's traumatic
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: to shoot somebody, then why don't we not shoot somebody?
• 15:49
  Speaker 8: That's a really good point.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Avoid all that trauma and not shoot somebody much unless
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: your son nat because a wife as she is rushing.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: So sorry.
• 15:58
  Speaker 8: Because he had this internal po scheme going on where
• 16:01
  Speaker 8: he always was spending money and then having to distract
• 16:05
  Speaker 8: and commit a crime to get more money. He was
• 16:07
  Speaker 8: always just ahead of himself, and that was just the
• 16:10
  Speaker 8: next action in this house of cards that he was
• 16:14
  Speaker 8: creating for himself.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: You know, you sound a little bit like an Alex
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: marlak apologist. So I'm going to let you think about
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: that for just one moment. But let's get right down
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: to it in the courtroom. Jennifer Wood from Fitch Niws,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: she heard it all. Take a listen now to the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: defense attorney Dick Harputlin grilling the court clerk.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: Did you tell her.
• 16:39
  Speaker 11: About the time of the trial that you were going
• 16:41
  Speaker 11: to write a book that you had thought about and
• 16:43
  Speaker 11: were going to write a book?
• 16:48
  Speaker 10: I can't remember exactly. I think we did have a
• 16:57
  Speaker 10: conversation about a book possibly in the future.
• 17:01
  Speaker 11: And did you tell her you're going to write a
• 17:03
  Speaker 11: book because you thought it would make a lot of money.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, no, sir, You never said that, No, sir.
• 17:09
  Speaker 11: And did you tell her that you were going to
• 17:10
  Speaker 11: write a book to make a bunch of money so
• 17:12
  Speaker 11: you could buy a lake wife and build a house
• 17:14
  Speaker 11: on it.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: No, sir. Okay, okay, Tim Jansen, I was going along
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: with Becky Hill and agreeing with her in that little
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: bit of testimony. But then when I got that additional detail,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: did you say you wanted to get a lot build
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: a lake house on it? And that's a little too
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: rich in detail not to be true.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you knew what was coming. You knew he had
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: a witness that's going to testify that that's exactly what
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: she said. She destroyed all of her own credibility. She
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: committed perjury clearly. I mean the other clerk that came
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: in was very credible witness. She answered the question so quickly,
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: and Hill always had to pause, couldn't remember, couldn't recall.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: It's clear she was not telling the truth.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you something else, him Janssen. Even
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: if I did agree with you, which I'm not committing to.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: But even if I did, what difference does it make?
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: So if she said I'm going to write a book,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I want to make a million dollars off this thing
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: because I've lived through hell and I'm going to write
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: a book and tell all. So what if she did
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: say that, all that matters is did she say it
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: to a juror and did in effect the juror's decision?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: That's all that matters.
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: Well, the problem you have is we believe the clerk
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: or government officials are going to do their job. Did
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: she have a motive not to do her job? Well,
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: we know now she did, and she swayed from her responsibilities,
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: and she said and did things that a couple of
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: jurors said they've overheard. So you have to put that
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: together to determine whether this juror is telling the truth
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: or maybe this juror has been gotten to But we
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: know now Becky.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Had a motive, But what do you mean the juror
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: has been quote gotten to Are you suggesting that one
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: or more of the jurors were approached by the defense
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: to claim their verdict was incorrect.
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: I don't know that. But when you have eleven jurors
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: say that they didn't hear or ten of them said
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: they didn't hear anything, a nine of them and one
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: said her verdict, she said something that could have swayed
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: her verdict. And it's kind of problematic as if Becky
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: was saying these things, did she isolate this one juror
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: or did she say it to everybody and they just
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: disregarded it or didn't hear it.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know that, or did she not say it
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: and the jurrar is making it up for some reason?
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Undisclosed always a possibility. So you think there's a chance
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: that there was nefarious doings possibly to get this juror
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: to claim she was swayed. I don't know that it's
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: a possibility, because she would have, you know her. I mean, really,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: would you put anything past Alex Murdoch? Would you? He's
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: already killed two people, He's stile an millions of dollars
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: from his disabled client. Sure, of course he would try
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: to get to one of the jurrrst. I mean we
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: all know, am I the only one?
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: We all know what possible. You get investigators and you
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: get lawyers out there to try to get a new trial.
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: Sometimes they go past the line.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: And I don't think the defense lawyers hurt Poutlan and
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: the others. I don't think they would be that stupid
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: they would actually contact a jurar. I don't think that
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: they would orchestrate that. It's just too risky. They would
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: lose everything, their bar, the first of all, their license.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I agree, that's what you don't want to lose as
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: a lawyer, exactly, that's everything.
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: The community is so tight lip. There are people who
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: support Murda and no matter what the evidence is, and
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: they could have bringched out to this duror and then
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: that cur came.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Or Murdoch himself. You know, he's got a tablet, he's
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: got a phone. Who knows what he's doing or who
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: he could get to do his bidding. But I don't
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: think the lawyers would do it. Do I think Murdoch
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: would do it? Oh yeah, totally. Jennifer would do you
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: agree Burdock would do anything.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't put anything past him.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, NANSI.
• 21:07
  Speaker 9: There haven't been any allegations that someone had tried to
• 21:10
  Speaker 9: bribe the jury to lie about any undue influence in
• 21:14
  Speaker 9: their verdict. There's no allegations and no proof.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Okay. Back to the courtroom, Becky Hill, the clerk at
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the center of all this controversy, getting grilled by an
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: excellent defense attorney, Dick Hartpootley.
• 21:30
  Speaker 11: Listen, you have described in your book your role is Switzerland.
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: Is that correct?
• 21:34
  Speaker 10: Correct?
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 21:36
  Speaker 11: And that is that you should not be in any
• 21:38
  Speaker 11: way opinionated about what's going on in the trial.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Is that correct?
• 21:44
  Speaker 10: That's true?
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 21:47
  Speaker 11: Yet, in your book you indicated a number of different
• 21:50
  Speaker 11: points during the trial you had concluded he was guilty.
• 21:53
  Speaker 11: Is that correct?
• 21:58
  Speaker 12: I think taking this point, I don't know if her
• 22:01
  Speaker 12: conclusions in the book are in any way relevant to
• 22:03
  Speaker 12: what occurred during the trial and whether or not there
• 22:05
  Speaker 12: was any communications with the jurors, which is the sole
• 22:09
  Speaker 12: issue that we're here for today, is whether or not
• 22:11
  Speaker 12: missus Hill had any extraneous influence on the jurors.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: And so I think this is going a little far.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Able to reject to the relative.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: You know, Jennifer Wood, I agree with Creighton Waters right there,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and of course Hart Putlin is doing a great job
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: in what he's doing. Creighton Water is the prosecutor saying
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know if anything she said in her book
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: translates to misconduct in front of a yourr. But can
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: you just imagine this, Jennifer Wood, director of research at
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: fitznews dot com. Creighton Waters a veteran prosecutor. He really
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: believes that what he is doing is right, and I
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: respect that. Let's see another legal phrase from law school.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I bet he had a cow. There's a lot of
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: other ways I could have put that. When he finds
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: out that his verdict is in danger because of something
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: somebody claims, Becky Hill said, I mean, I've never had
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: a case come under this kind of scrutiny for something.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: A clerk said to Ajrar, I've never even had a
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: dreary misconduct claim before. So don't you know he did
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: a backflip when he heard about this brew Haha. Can
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: you imagine him?
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: I can't imagine. I can't even imagine what his face
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: looked like when that first motion was filed. It must
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: be just so so disheartening.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I gave up cursing when I had the twins. But
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I would say it has something to do with passing
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a brick. Okay, that said I ran into him. I
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: ran into Creighton Waters at crime con and of course
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: tried to get something out of him. He wouldn't tell
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: me anything, but he seemed to agree with me when
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I said, I really don't believe the whole vert's going
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: to be overturned by a passing comment. I mean, can
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: that really sway a jury verdict? He wouldn't commit, as
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: he should not have, but I tried. You know, give
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: me credit. Okay, more of Becky Hill, the clerk at
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: the center of this controversy on the stand.
• 24:16
  Speaker 11: Listen, let me give you an example. You indicate, writing
• 24:19
  Speaker 11: back from Mozelle that you and three other people were
• 24:23
  Speaker 11: in a car and you all decided adamantly, I think
• 24:27
  Speaker 11: was the word you used, that he was guilty, that
• 24:30
  Speaker 11: he had killed his wife and son. Is that what
• 24:32
  Speaker 11: you put in the book?
• 24:34
  Speaker 10: I can't remember if I put that in the book,
• 24:36
  Speaker 10: but if you say I did, then I will figure
• 24:38
  Speaker 10: that happened. We did have a conversation about what each
• 24:42
  Speaker 10: of us thought and the all.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Four agreed that he was guilty.
• 24:45
  Speaker 10: Correct, and none of us were jurors, No, trust me,
• 24:50
  Speaker 10: I know that.
• 24:51
  Speaker 11: But you had an abiding conviction at least by the
• 24:57
  Speaker 11: time of the Mozelle visit that he was guilty.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So what you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: not to think that Alex Murdogg was guilty. Of course
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: she thought he was guilty, because he is guilty. I mean,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: can we just be honest, Tim Janssen, the court personnel,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: they hear the evidence just like the jurors do, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: they make an opinion, and nothing precludes them, prohibits them,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: disallows them from discussing it. They just can't let the
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: jury hear it. You can never have any opinion in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: front of the gurrrs.
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: That's true.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I mean unless you're the prosecutor or the defense. So
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: so what if she was in the car saying, oh, yeah,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: he totally did it.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's funny because you know, when I was trying
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: to cases a lot in federal court, after the jury
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: went back, I'd always asked the court recorded what he thought,
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: or the clerk what they thought, and they would tell
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: me and I would get an idea because their neutrals
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: both to be neutral see what they thought. I never
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: vision that they would go share any opinion they had
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: with the juror. And I've never seen that before.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: You know, Chris McDonough, says doctor Bethany.
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: Well, yeah, Nancy, she had just seen a crime scene.
• 26:11
  Speaker 8: All four of them were not drawers in the car,
• 26:14
  Speaker 8: but they had just seen where the beloved members of
• 26:17
  Speaker 8: the community had been gunned down. Of course they're going
• 26:20
  Speaker 8: to have to process that. Who just gets in a car,
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: goes home and doesn't talk about it.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it hits me, doctor Bethany. I mean, it
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: all hits me. And I've been to so many homicide
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: scenes and they're not like in the movies. They're horrible.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: They're horrible. They smell, the blood coagulates, the bodies start
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: to smell. It was like their hair is stuck in
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: the blood. There's dirt everywhere, there's just like it's horrible.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And I have been to many autopsies, but at the
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: crime scene, I've had officers actually leave and vomit outside
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: the crime scene. So it's nothing like what you see it. Actually,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: it's just made my stomach hurt remembering that. But this
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: whole thing them being in the car and seeing the
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: crime scene and then talking about it, and another thing
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: that Tim Jensen just said. He would ask the court
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: reporter like, what do you think. I have one court reporter,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, who was also a very very dear friend,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: and I would have to actually turn her away from
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the jury sometimes as she took down the testimony, because
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: let's just pretend the defendant got on the stand. Let's
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: just pretend it's murdog and he starts his bs, and
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: she would actually go and roll her eyes and like
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: shake her head. No, no, that's a big, fatly And
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I agree with you, but we can't
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: let the jury see you. And she would always position
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: her seat in front of the jury between the witness
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: box in me and the jury would be at my left.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I'd be right beside the jury. It should be right
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: smack dab in the middle. I'm like, you cannot shake
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: your head violently back and forth when the defendant is lying.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I know it's hard, but my point is, doctor Bethany,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: of course she's gonna, of course begging Haill's gonna have
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: an opinion.
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: Of course she's going to have an opinion, Nancy. We
• 28:20
  Speaker 8: are we are wired to connect to other people. We
• 28:23
  Speaker 8: are wired to look at other people, look at the
• 28:27
  Speaker 8: expressions on their faces, ask some questions, kind of do
• 28:31
  Speaker 8: a check to see if just to check in to
• 28:33
  Speaker 8: see if our reality is correct. So the fact that
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: anyone would expect those four people to get in the
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: car and not check in with each other, not to
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: see if their reactions were correct, not to have to
• 28:47
  Speaker 8: process really almost undigestible feelings, you know, ask you when
• 28:51
  Speaker 8: you were talking about you know, the court reporter kind
• 28:54
  Speaker 8: of looking at each other. I remember when I used
• 28:56
  Speaker 8: to go to CNN HLN to be on your show.
• 29:00
  Speaker 8: So there was this limo driver who was a crime junkie,
• 29:04
  Speaker 8: and I would always ask him what he thought about
• 29:06
  Speaker 8: the case. It's not like I would repeat it on air,
• 29:09
  Speaker 8: but I just had to discuss it with somebody who
• 29:12
  Speaker 8: had just watched the extensive coverage. We all do that.
• 29:15
  Speaker 8: It's very human to want to talk to other people.
• 29:17
  Speaker 8: That doesn't mean we're crossing the line or talking to Georgian.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: It was funny, Doctor Bethany. There was a little old man,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: mister Thomas. He walked with a limp. He had to
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: be seventy eighty. He would come to everyone. He was
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: a trial junkie, whould come to every one of my
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: trials and between witnesses or when the jury's and resais,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: if I wasn't still working frantically, I would go sit
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: with him alone in the courtroom and he would tell
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: me his thoughts on when had happened so far, and
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: he would be there as I waited for every verdict.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's like a sounding.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Boarder time stories with Nancy Grace.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: More of Becky Hill getting grilled and.
• 30:13
  Speaker 11: Based on what that I mean, I can love You
• 30:16
  Speaker 11: want me to read you how chilled you were, and
• 30:18
  Speaker 11: how you felt that poor Paul and Maggie been executed
• 30:23
  Speaker 11: by him on that scene, that visiting the scene convinced
• 30:25
  Speaker 11: you that he.
• 30:26
  Speaker 9: Was a horrible, horrible murder.
• 30:29
  Speaker 11: You want me to read that to you, or you
• 30:30
  Speaker 11: would concede that's what you wrote.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I will concede that's what I wrote.
• 30:34
  Speaker 10: But if I may, I will I would say that
• 30:36
  Speaker 10: that A lot of that is poetic license in writing
• 30:39
  Speaker 10: a book and in making it sound like that.
• 30:43
  Speaker 11: Okay, so some of his poetic license and some of
• 30:46
  Speaker 11: it you just stole. You You proloined it from that
• 30:49
  Speaker 11: BBC writer.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Right, what what is he talking about Jennifer Wood?
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think she was trying to get her
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: to admit that she, you know, had made statements in
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: the book and that she you know, either she has
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: to say she made the statements or she was laying
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: either or well.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: He's saying she plagiarized. Is what he's saying. As a
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: matter of fact, he spells it out. Listen, did you
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: seal part of the book?
• 31:14
  Speaker 10: I did plagiarize, mister? It is and for that I'm
• 31:19
  Speaker 10: very sorry, and I.
• 31:19
  Speaker 11: Have apologized, Okay, and that makes it okay.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: What I did?
• 31:26
  Speaker 10: I did and I apologized for that.
• 31:29
  Speaker 11: And part of the book is you say literary license, exaggeration.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't call it exaggeration. Okay.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: You know again, Tim Janssen. So if she lifted from
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: the BBC's work, it's plagiarism. So she plagiarized, she admitted it.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Can I just ask what does that have to do
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: with tainting the jury? Oh?
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: I agree with you. It was a brilliant cross examination
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: if she was a facult at a trial, and I
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: think he was just trying to make and destroy her credibility,
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: which I think he did very much did. And she
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: stole passages, she later admitted because under a time crunch
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: with her publishers, she gets stole passages and put it
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: in the book.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I don't I agree she did, And I don't know
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: if it was winning or unwinning. When she's trying to
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: amass a whole lot of information and she reads it,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I would imagine she tried to rewrite it and then
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: miss portions of it and did not rewrite it. I'm
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: putting it in the light and most favorable to her.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: But she did it all right, she admits it. Why
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: are they bringing it up because it destroys her credibility
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: in front of the judge? More right?
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, for sure?
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: And I think they're playing for the media there.
• 32:44
  Speaker 11: How much money did you make off that book?
• 32:54
  Speaker 10: There was not a whole lot of money made off
• 32:56
  Speaker 10: of the book, after paying different things and paying for
• 33:01
  Speaker 10: some expenses that went along with that. But I want
• 33:04
  Speaker 10: to say roughly around one hundred thousand.
• 33:06
  Speaker 11: Okay, that's not a lot of money.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Well, one hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: to a lot of people. But let's just get down
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: to did she tank the jury. Listen.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: Was your verdict based entirely on the testimony, evidence, and
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: law presented to you in this case? Yes, ma'am. Did
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: you hear miss Becky Hill make any comment about this
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: case before you were verdict?
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am?
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: If yes, what did missus Hill say to watch his actions?
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: To watch his actions? What else? To watch him closely?
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: To watch him closely? Anything? Or you remember?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: There it is but I can't remember. Okay, well wait
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: a minute, how can that suggest he's guilty? Help me out,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood. What's the judge getting at there?
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: I think the judge is questioning all we all had
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: questions listening to her testimony, and I think she was,
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: you know, getting at her state of mind and getting
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: at you know, did what what she heard from Becky
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: Hill or what she allegedly heard from Becky Hill?
• 34:47
  Speaker 8: A fact?
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: What her verdict?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: So what we're getting out of gr r Z is
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: that Becky Hill said to watch Murdog closely, watch him
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: on the stand. Okay, so far that's not cutting it.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: They're not getting any trial based on that. But listen
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: to the judge question yourr Z. Further, was your verdict.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: Influenced in any way by the communications of the Clerk
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: of court in this case, yes, ma'am. And how was
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: it influenced?
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: To me? It felt like.
• 35:31
  Speaker 11: She made it seem like he was already guilty, all right,
• 35:35
  Speaker 11: and I.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Understand that that's the tenor of the remark she made.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: Did that affect your finding of guilty in this case?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Okay, right there, when the GURR said that
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Baker Hill's statements affected her finding of guilt, you'd think
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: that was the end of the story and we would
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: have a new trial, wouldn't you, Doctor Michelle Duprey, you
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: sat through the entire trial. Wouldn't you think one gerrr
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: claiming she affected my guilty verdict would be enough?
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: Normally, Nancy, I would, except when I was there and
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: watching this jury, this juror, she really wasn't that credible.
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: She changed her story at least twice, maybe three times.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Is that true, Jennifer Wood? Did she change the GURR
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: change her story?
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, from the affidavit that was submitted with the original
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: defense motion to her testimony, it did change. And that's
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: why they brought it in and had her review it.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Wow. Speaking of that affidavit, which is a sworn statement
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: by a witness. In this case, it is gerr Z
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: that claims her verdict was tainted by the court. Clark,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: this is what she put in writing, and it's a
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: very far cry from what she just said on the stand.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Take a list in five four.
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: In the.
• 37:05
  Speaker 12: Affidavit that was given by this particular juror. Paragraph ten said,
• 37:10
  Speaker 12: I questions by mister Murdock's guilt, but I'm guilty because
• 37:13
  Speaker 12: I felt pressured by.
• 37:14
  Speaker 7: The other jurors.
• 37:15
  Speaker 12: We would request an inquiry as to that, which is
• 37:19
  Speaker 12: how when this mession was filed she expressed the basis
• 37:23
  Speaker 12: for her verdict, which obviously this answer is a little
• 37:25
  Speaker 12: different now, So we would request a brief inquiry from
• 37:29
  Speaker 12: the court as to that specification.
• 37:32
  Speaker 11: Thank you, your honor, As to.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: The two things.
• 37:41
  Speaker 11: The first thing is he is correct. She gave an affidavit.
• 37:44
  Speaker 11: We would ask your honor to let her read her
• 37:48
  Speaker 11: affidavit to refresher memory of and she said other things.
• 37:52
  Speaker 11: They're very detailed in here.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Well, there you hear Creighton Waters being as delicate as
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: he can be. It reminds me of the Queen, Queen
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth when she said recollections may vary, because here he
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: doesn't say she's a bull faced liar. This is not
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: what she put in her sworn statement, which I would
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: have run in like a bull in a china shop
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: With that, he says, obviously, this answer is a little
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: different from what she's saying. Now, well, that's putting it mildly.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: So the judge is questioning juror Z. Listen your or z.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: I asked you previously, was your verdict on marks the
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: second twenty twenty three influenced in any way by communications
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: from Becky Hill, the clerk of court. You answered that question, yes,
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: in light of what you said in the affidavit, which
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: is I had questions about mister Murdock's guilt but voted
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: guilty because I felt pressured by the other jewelors. Is
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: that answer that I just read more accurate statement of
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: how you felt. Yes, yes, ma'am. All right, so you
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: do stand by the affidavit. Yes, ma'am, very good. Thank you.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: What in the hey, Jennifer Woods, after all that ruckus,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: She says, yeah, I'm gonna go with the affidavit, which
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: says I voted this way because the pressure from pressure
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: from others giars, not the court clerk.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: Right after that entire testimony. That's what she went back to.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: But then after she left, her attorney, Joe McCulloch since
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: a supplemental affidavit regarding you know, a follow up affidavit
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: regarding her testimony to the court for consideration.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: And what did the quote follow up affidavit say, let
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: me guess, go ahead.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: So the follow up affidavit was submitted, and the judge,
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: you know, obviously very bizarre, said she wanted to clarify
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: her testimony. As she testified, she felt influenced to find
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: mister Murdoch guilty by reason of Miss Hill's remarks before
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: I entered the jury room, and then once deliberations began,
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: she felt further additional pressure.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, what are we going to do now? Have another hearing?
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Please say no, no, Okay. Here's the judge's ruling. Take
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: a listen to Judge Jane told.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: The following is my ruling on the defendant's motion. The
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: standard of proof. The state contends that, in order to prevail,
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: the defendant must show one that the clerk of court
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: made an improper comment or propounded an improper question to
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: the member of the jury to a member of the
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: jury who rendered the verdict two. Defendant must further show
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: that miss Hill's improper comment or question actually influenced the
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: juror's verdict, got it and more?
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: What does the judge think? Spin it out?
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Judge, I simply do not believe that the authority of
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Ayshire Comana Supreme Court requires a new trial in a
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: very lengthy trial such as this on the strength of
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: some fleeting and foolish comments by a publicity influenced clerk
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: of court. This is a matter within the discretion of
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: the trial judge, and I am the trial judge at
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: this moment. I do not feel that I abuse my
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: discretion when I find the defendant's motion for a new
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: trial on the factual record before me must be denied,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: and it is so ordered.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Tim Jensen, Yes, no, did the.
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: Judge get it right to that juror say that she
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: was pressured by the jurors. I think the judge has
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: a sound factual reason to support her dec.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Just so you know, Tim, since I know you graduate
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: from graduated from law school in a veteran childlawyr, I
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: knew you would not answer in one word. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Yes no, did the judge get it right. No, oh lord, Okay.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Chris McDonough did the judge get it right?
• 42:16
  Speaker 7: Absolutely? But she set up an appellate challenge?
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Hm, Doctor j Free did the judge get it right?
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: Absolutely?
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood did the judge get it right?
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: I agree with Chris, she got it right, but I
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: believe she set up a very good appellate challenge and
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: is expecting it.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: If there's any way for Alex Murdog to appeal this,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: he will. So, while all of you legal eagles may
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: breathe a sigh of relief that there's not a new
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: trial that has been granted to Alex Murdog, sadly, let
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: me report the truth. It ain't over yet. Goodbye friend,