Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Tot mom Casey Anthony TV offers? Baby Caylee visits grandpa George Anthony after she's murdered.

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Tot mom Casey Anthony TV offers? Baby Caylee visits grandpa George Anthony after she's murdered. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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• 1:44
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Casey Anthony's parents are threatening to take a legal action
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: against their daughter. I don't think it will overcome to that.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think she'll sell her story Reality Shone, even
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: if show with her and O. J. Simpson. Cindy Anthony
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: also telling TV host Chris Hansen that Casey might not
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: remember what happened to her daughter Kayley because she might
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: have blacked out during a seizure. Yes, I think Casey
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: has been employeel. Does it never end with Todd Mom
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Casey Anthony? She has reared her head again. You know,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: you think if you were acquitted, if you managed to
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: escape with your own skin after being charged in the
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: murder of your taught daughter Kelly, with overwhelming evidence of guilt,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: you get off. But then you keep making the headlines,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: whether it's bragging that men still buy you drinks in bars,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to you know, showing up at birthday parties in whoop,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: see getting your picture on the front page of the paper.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, it just it just seems to never go away.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, see Grace, this is crime Stories, and yes,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: tought Mom Casey Anthony is back with word that there
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: is a planned reality TV series with their daughter taught
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Mom Casey Anthony and possibly even O. J. Simpson. You
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: know right now they're they're claiming that they would sue
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: her if she tries to do a reality show based
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: on what maybe intentional infliction of emotional distress, but I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: don't know what grounds they would have to sue her on.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: But not only that, they say that if tot Mom
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: killed her daughter, then she may have blacked out or
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: was mentally ill? What mentally ill? For that one hour?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what taught Mom Casey aunt
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and these parents have just said. We know we're going
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: to pin on you because you need to fall on
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the sword for your daughter. You need to do this.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I said, wait, wait, wait, wait, The defense attorney said,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: do you you need to fall on the sword. I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: need to fall on the sword from my way, I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: need to take responsibility and claim that what responsibility the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: reason why Kaylee wasn't here with us anymore, the reason
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: why she's gone. Do you think looking back, she was
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: mentally ill? Yes, I think Casey is mentally ill. I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: really do. I think Casey's mentally ill. She's never had
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: her seizures worked up. You think Casey had a seizure
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: potentially and didn't even know what happened to Kaylee. That's
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: a possibility, and she doesn't remember when she has seizures
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: unless she knows she has been her tongue or something.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Would you support a lawsuit against your daughter? I don't
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  Speaker 1: think it will overcome to that. I don't think she'll
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  Speaker 1: sell her story. George seems to think that it might,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and now there are rumors of reality shows, even a
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: show with her and O. J. Simpson. What do you
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: say to that if it came down to that, I
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: probably would. She's talking about Keyley still being with her
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a part of her life and perhaps having another child.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know where she could have
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: another child with. It wouldn't be anywhere in the United
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: States of America. Who knows. Maybe some of the country
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: would accept her. She's had boyfriends. Since she's gotten out,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: tell me about the suicide adept From the time that
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Kaylee we were told to Kaylee was missing, taken with Zanny, whatever,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: whomever she was with. I didn't feel I did enough
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: to go find her. Did you want to die? I
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: wanted to be with her. I want even to this day,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: she should be here, not me. I've seen Hayley on
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: a couple of occasions. Oh, no, I've seen her. I've
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: seen her in the flesh. I've seen her in my house.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: One time she woke me up in the morning to
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: tap one on with her little finger like she used
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: to do this part. Was this a dream? It wasn't
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: a dream. It was it was like you and I
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: are talking right now. How do you explain that the
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: strong spirit that's in our house was their imagination? Oh
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: that's not an imagination. That that's that's love, and that's
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: that's a connection that I wish more people could have.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Is she a killer? Do you think she intentionally wanted
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: to kill Caylee? If Casey is watching this, what is
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: your message to her? Stay away, stay away from me.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: If she wants to have a relationship again with her mom,
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  Speaker 1: she's got a lot of explain to do, but I don't.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it no more from her.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see her. Cindy, If Casey is
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: watching this, what do you say to her? Case be
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: true to yourself, start being honest with yourself and own everything.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Equip flitting, blame on everybody else that is so full
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: of issues and problems. I hardly know where to start.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Joining me now is Steve Helling from People magazine and Bremner,
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  Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Seattle, Karen Stark, renowned psychologists
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: from New York, and of course Alan Duke from l A.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Steve Helling first to you, how did this whole thing unfold?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: What do you make of the stories that Todd Mom
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Casey Anthony has been approached to do a reality show?
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: You know, we don't know about specific offers, but we
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: do know that there's always been interest in Casey Anthony.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, whenever anybody does anything on her, you
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: know it gets attention. So of course reality TV producers,
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  Speaker 1: who all they're looking for is the next big audience,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: will look into somebody like Casey Anthony and wonder is
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: this worth doing? And I think that's what's happening here?
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: You know, to Karen Stark psychologists, somehow it just seems wrong. Um,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: It's like with O. J. Simpson. Yes, they were acquitted,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: but the evidence was overwhelming that they were guilty, and
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: it just seems wrong that she would now make money,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: really blood money off her daughter's death without a doubt, Nancy,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: that would be a terrible problem. And I have a
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: feeling that even though she gets tremendous attention, if she
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: were to do a reality show like that, people would, Um,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: there would be a huge group of people that would
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: be outraged because it is wrong. Steve Hewing, does Todd
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Mom have a civil verdict taking over her head? Yes?
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Right now she is has allegedly sold the rights to
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: her life story for dollars to pay back her bankruptcy.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, what is her life story count for?
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, we were talking about stuff that happened in
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the past. Did she sign away her rights to do
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: something about her life now? We don't know what all
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the legalities would be. Well, my question is does she
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: currently have like O. J. Simpson has a thirty plus
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: million dollar verdict civil judgment hanging over him. It's a yes, no,
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  Speaker 1: does she have a similar judgment hanging over her No,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: she does not unless someone sued her like her parents.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: If they sued her and one, which I think they
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: would in a civil case, just like in Simpson, she
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: would have a multimillion dollar verdict hanging over her head. Also,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: she could be forced to take the stand. I want
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: you to listen to something specific that George Anthony. You
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: were hearing George and Cindy Anthony speaking earlier with Chris Hansen.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to what George said specifically about being
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: told he had to quote fall on his sword and
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: take the blame for his daughter. Listen, so we know
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: we're gonna pinder on you because you need to fall
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: on the sword for your daughter. You need to do this.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I said, wait, wait, the defense attorney said, do you
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: you need to fall in the sword? I need to
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: fall in the sword from my I need to take
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: responsibility and claimed that what responsibility? The reason why Kayley
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't here with us anymore, the reason why she's gone
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: out to high profile Seattle lawyer both criminal and civil
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and Bremner joining us and again, thank you for being
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: with us. And I find that very very revealing because
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: if anybody else had done it, they would have been
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: running down that alley that avenue. Let's prove somebody else
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: did it. But instead, at one juncture, the plan was
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to blame George when they knew he didn't do it,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: but they were willing to stand in front of a
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: jury and suggest that George Anthony killed Keiley or that
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: he was responsible. And and Nancy is always a pleasure
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: to be on with you. Thanks for having me, I know.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, remember Anthy. They called George to
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the stand over and over and over again, and they
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: had the opening statement, say bias did where he talked
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: about George and the pool and everything else and the
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: molestation issue allegation. Wait, let's just put it out there
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: for people that don't know the defense Todd Mom Casey.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Anthony's defense tried to suggest that George Anthony had molested
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: top Mom Casey. I don't believe that for a minute.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I have met with them, I know them, and I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: don't believe it. Now who am I supposed to believe
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: top Mom Casey Anthony or George Anthony the former cop.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: She also to another reason that I don't believe her,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: And Bremner is she blamed, said her did she say
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: her brother tried to molest her too? That was out
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: there too, I mean it was. It was just outrageous.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And remember there was a graphic description in the opening
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: statement was a bias about at least one sex act.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: But between the George inflicted on her on Casey and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: all the stuff about, you know, the denying of pregnancy
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and the weirdness in the house and everything else. He
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: painted this picture and opening statement was pretty compelling, and
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: he never batched up with any evidence. But George was
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the culprit for sure. There was never any evidence at
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: all that George Anthony did any of that. So I
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: guess what they concocted in their defense strategy meetings was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: a let's blame somebody else. First, there was Zanny the nanny,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: who turned out didn't exist, So when it turned out
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: she didn't exist, they had to find somebody else to blame.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: That was suit top Mom originally blamed, remember that, Steve Helling.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Her first story was Zanny the nanny who had been
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: taking care of the baby all this time. I mean
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: she had been living this lie for you know, a year,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: telling her parents that Zanny the nanny had the baby
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: when really she was chloroforming the baby with homemade chloroform
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and putting her in the trunk. And that was a
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: big fat lie, I guess, so Steve Helling. When they
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: found out, when the defense found out there was really
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: nos any that nanny, that probably took him a couple
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: of months to get that out of Top Mom. They
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: had to blame somebody, Steve. Well, yeah, exactly. And you
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: know that's the thing about Casey is that we you know,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: for anybody who doesn't right you on a first name basis,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: it seems like it because I've covered her. Yeah, well
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you're not, okay, are you mad? Right, Steve? You're married, right,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: happily with children, with children. Yes, I doubt that your
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: wife wants you on a first name basis with top
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Mom Casey Anthony. So just you can stop that now, Okay,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you can call our top mom Anthony, how about that?
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the thing is that Anthony first name basis.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm protecting you from yourself. Well, thank you.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that that. Nancy know. The thing about it
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: is that she came gave so many stories and for
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: anybody who wasn't around in two thousand eight. It just
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: seemed like every week there was a new story and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: there was something new that she had to say, and
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: it was never true. So you know, even now, if
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: we talk about what what's going on in her life,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: we don't even know that anything that she says now
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: is true. Reality show. We don't know if it's true
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: because Casey makes up stories. Miss Anthony makes up stories.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I should say, Okay, let let me go back to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: some of the lies at trial. Okay, because not I
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: don't particularly care about rehashing them. But when you don't
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: know a horse, look at their track record. Okay, so
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it all started, and help me out. Anne Bremner, Karen Start,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Steve Helen from People magazine. Because there's so many, I
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: actually believe it or not, may not even remember them all,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: so taught mom. Casey Anthony has been living with her parents.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: She started something years old, sitting home, mating ships all day.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: She has the baby, won't tell who the dad is,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: so she doesn't any child's support. I don't give a
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: flying fig who the dad is, and I'm not judging.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I don't care. I mean, even mother Mary was pregnant
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: before she got married. Okay, so that's what I think
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: about that. There's no shame at all attached to in
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: my mind having a baby um in our society, I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: think it's better to be married because you get judged
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: if you're not. But in this case, I find it
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: important because she could have gotten child's support for Pete's sake,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: said of her parents having to foot the bill anyway.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: So she's at home eating chips with the baby, won't
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: say who the dad is and a child's support. She
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: says the whole time, Steve Helling, that she has a
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: job at Universal. She even puts on a fake ID
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: in a little uniform and goes to quote work end quote.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: That's a big fat lie, Steve Helling. All this time,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: she never had a job. She's just pretending and leaves
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the house, leaves the baby with them, right yeah. And
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that's the crazy thing about it is that, if you recall,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: she even took the cops on this weird back lot
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: tour of Universal, saying, oh, I work here, and then
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: finally when nobody recognized her, she had to say, Okay, no,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I don't actually work here. Wait wait, wait, hold on,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, you're right Karen Stark and am
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Brim refers to you, Karen sadly and as valuable as
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I think your trial strategy is. I've got to go
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to a shrink on this. I mean, Karen, start, it's
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: one thing to start a lie. I used to read
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: a little book from Veggietals to the children, and they
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: were little called Larry's Big Fib. And he starts to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a lie. And then he has to keep feeding the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: lie or everybody will found out he lied, so he
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: has stuck with his line. He gets bigger and bigger
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and bigger until it threatens to eat everybody. Okay, then
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: he finally tells the truth. I mean, wait a minute.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: So you tell your parents a lie so they'll have
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to take care of the baby while you go to
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: work your fake job. But then your baby goes missing
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and police are working with you to find the baby,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and you continue the lie. You go all the way
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: to Universal Security Gate and make out the names of
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: people that you work with, and they try to call
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: your your extension blah blah. Well, at what point do
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: you find they go in and try to find these people.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: She's going along with it. When do you finally break
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: down and tell the truth. Well, the question Nancy would
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: be does she understand what the truth is? And pathological
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: liars that's how you know that they're psychosis involved with
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it is they believe their own lives. And clearly in
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the case any Karen, she finally said, Okay, you got me,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: like she's kind of laughing, Okay, I don't really work here.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: So the whole not knowing the truth that's b s
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: because she did know the truth. She said, okay, you
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: got me. They Nancy, I still don't know where my
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: daughter is. He knows on some level she knows the truth,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: but she is so good at lying that on another level,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the mind is very complicated. She can believe her own
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: lies and then she gets caught and she has to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: admit yet it is a lie. Then she admits it
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: to herself, but she'll go from that to then making
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: up another lie and another lie. It's how she lives
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: her life. This is normal for her. Well, normal doesn't
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: mean she doesn't know she's lying, and Bremner high profiles
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: while she's saying it, she believes it. And I don't
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: think for one minute she believed any of these lies,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: because as soon as she's caught, she's going, okay, alright, alright,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I was lying, you got me, But I didn't kill
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: my daughter. I'm really telling the truth about that. The
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: whole time she okay, the baby goes missing and Bremner
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: and she goes and moves in with a boyfriend in
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: all of his y mates. I'm sure they were all
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: so happy together. Um, the whole time the baby wasn't
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: there the whole time she lived with him, and she
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: said Zanny the nanny had the baby, or her parents
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: had the baby, nobody had the baby. She sustained that
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: lie day in day out for weeks on end, when
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the I guess the baby was already killed and hidden
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: out in that swampy area near her old elementary school
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: where she used to go sneak off and smoke, or
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: was in her trunk decaying. And well, absolutely when we
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: heard that evidence in the trial about of course the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: um the issue that the evidence of the body had
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: probably been in the trunk for some time, remember back
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: in the backyard, and you know it wasn't about a
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: month fancy. And the thing is the one thing though
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I thought that jose Bias did effectively on the lie
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: was that he basically turned it around on the prosecu
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: and said she has all these imaginary friends. Remember he
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: grasped that all out, and that she lives in the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: fantasy world, and he made it all kind of seem
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: a little more plausible than being an outright lie, which
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: would indicate guilt. I mean, it's remember falseless and union
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: unium falseless, implurium false and one false and all. If
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: he could twist it and make it not an outright
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: lie but imagination, um, that's what we tried to do them.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I think he did it pretty effectively. Steve Holling, do
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I need to give you some nase medicine about right now?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I've got a pretty strong stomach for all things, uh,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: miss Anthony these days, just because we've been dealing with
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: this now for nine years, so um, you know, it's
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: it's surprising that even now I can't wrap my head
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: around her pathology, with the way that she lied again
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and again and again. I just don't understand. Well, you've
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: got Karen Stark saying, oh no, she really believed her
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: lies until she was called then she suddenly didn't believe
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: them anymore, and and Bremner saying it wasn't a lie,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it was just a fantasy. Well, I know this Gailly's dead,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: and right now story circulating that Top Mom is about
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: to launch a TV series. Now we've established that there's
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: no civil judgment hanging over her head. So she had
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: a TV series or a reality show, that money would
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: go in her pocket. Unlike O J. Simpson, he would
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: go straight to the Browns, the Brown and Goldman families,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: because he's got that civil judgment. So would her parents
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: sue her? Take a listen to what they say. Would
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you support a lawsuit against your daughter? I don't think
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it will overcome to that. I don't think she'll sell
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: her story. George seems to think that it might, and
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: now there are rumors of reality shows, even a show
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: with her and O J. Simpson. Oh God, what do
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you say to that? If came down to that, I
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: probably would. I want to pause quickly before we hear
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: what else George and Cindy Anthony have to say, and
• 22:08
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  Speaker 1: you are doing for business owners and for being our
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  Speaker 1: partner today. I want to go back to the shocking
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: claim that Tottenham Casey Anthony is considering a reality show
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: which she would get paid a lot of money for.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: To Steve Helling with People magazine and Bremner, high profile
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: lawyer out of Seattle, and Karen Stark psychologists from New
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: York joining us along with Alan Deep Steve Helling. What
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: is top Mom doing now? How she supporting herself? Well,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: you know, she's living with her private investigator and she
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: does legal work for him. And you mean the private
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: investigator from the O. J. Simpson defense team. Yes, one
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: and the same Nancy. That's what I'm talking about. And
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: so she lives down there and said Steve Helling, Steve Helling,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: do you know what my grandmother used to say, to
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: lay down with a dog, you'll wake up with Lee's. Okay.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: So birds of a feather flock together. I mean I
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: could go on and on and on. So the defense lawyer,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: investigator from O J. Simpson and Top Mom are living together.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes? That is absolutely correct. Sounds like
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: two snakes in a barrel to me. Go ahead. And
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: she does legal work for him, which basically is online research,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: which means that she's always online. I'm assuming that also
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: includes googling herself all the time. Um, so there was that,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and then I'm afraid to google myself. I'm afraid the
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: twins might see it, okay, And that's the bottom line.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: That's what she does all day. She doesn't have a
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: wide circle of friends, you know now, and then we
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: see her out because pictures are mysteriously released. It's it's
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: really odd, Nancy, how often photographers just happened to be
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: save Hell from People magazine. How much money do you
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: think she gets from tipping them off and giving them
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: her candid photos? My guess is just a couple of
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: thousand each time. It's not a couple of thousands each
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: time to go to a bar and have a drink.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: She gets paid out. Yes, I believe completely because because
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you know these that's how this machine works, and she
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: has figured out how to be part of that machine.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: And in the past, people from her team had contacted
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: me way back two thousand eleven, two twelve, you know, hey,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: there might be some pictures. Are you interested? And we
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: always said no, so they stopped coming to us, but
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: they found other people who would you know, Am Bremner
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: and Karen Stark. I'm gonna follow up on something Steve
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Helling said on My h Len Show. We never ever
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: ever paid for an interview or uh ever, Now this
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: is interesting some bigger shows with a whole lot of money.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: And I'll say, we did not pay for the interview.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: That's not journalistic integrity. We only pay a licensing fee
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: for the photos. In other words, so todd mom takes
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: a picture, gives a picture of herself with Kelly hands
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: it over. They pay an eighty thousand dollar licensing fee
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: for the photo, but not for the interview. Oh no,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: no way. So bottom line, you know, same thing, money
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: changes hands. So you're what do you make of that,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Karen Stark, do you think she's ever thought of actually
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: getting a job. Why would she have to nanty if
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: she's able to get away with doing it? To think about,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: you know, how she's crafted all of this to fit
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: her lifestyle, that she could make money from being anywhere,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: from taking a walk and not have to deal with
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that she had this child that disappeared and
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: that she's a murderer. She just goes on and sees
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: herself as a celebrity. And you can count on the
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: fact that that's how she views herself, that's her living.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm just thinking it through and Bremner, I mean,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I wonder what what what are they going to sell? Next.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about her parents because listen, and again,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink, obviously, I'm just a trial lawyer.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: But I have met with George and Cindy Anthony. I've
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: watched them very carefully. I've hung on their every word.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: America met them at the worst possible time of their lives,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: their beloved The only thing they lived for really was Keyley,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: raising Keyley, and they were raising her. Taught my was
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: doing nothing but leaching off them and supporting top mom.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So Kelly suddenly goes missing, and then their daughter, what what,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: regardless of what we think of her, is charged with
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: her murder. So this is the worst possible scenario for them.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And then they've got the press camped out on their
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: front yard. Of course they come out there and cry
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: and yell and and show out. I mean, who wouldn't
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. I mean, you can only jab at
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: somebody so long before they bite back. When I met them,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: and I've got to tell you, they were two fine people,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: and I mean that, I really do. Um So when
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: you're hearing when I'm saying what's going to be sold next,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: not referring to them, and I want to be clear
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: about that. So what will be sold next Kelly's baby
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: clothes and Bremner, Well, absolutely there was some indication back
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: during the trial the baby pictures were sold or licensed.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: As we just talked about, Um, who knows what's next
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: that she's talking about a reality show and she's telling
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: paparazzi pictures and everything else. She has no shame googling
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: herself all the time, and she's going to need some
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: reputation management on that. But she seems to just go
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: forward blithely as if she is, like here in said,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: of celebrity rather than a murderous in all of our eyes.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: That's how we feear. We learned so much with Chris
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Hanson from Crime Watch Daily speaking with the Anthony's, we
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: learned that they believe she must have been temporarily mentally ill,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: which you know, it's not really a legal concept. Um,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: there's this temporary insanity that never wins because it's so
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: far fetched. They've got You've got George and Cindy is
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: sitting there going along with it. I don't think they're
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: both lying. I don't think either of them are lying.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: The defeat it's with nowhere else to go, but the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: obvious that their client is guilty. Tells George he's got
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: to fall on a sword and he's got to say
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: he did it it was an accident. Okay, then you've
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: got gosh, you've got so much in that one conversation,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Steve Helling, People Magazine. What stuck out in your mind? Well,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I can't say that I was surprised at
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of it, But I am surprised to see
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: how much they're still mourning and how they're talking. George
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: is talking about um, how you know he sees Kaylee
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: come into the house and and and touch him on
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: the cheek while he's asleep, and you know, these are
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: still people. You know what. I want to talk about
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: that too. I've seen Kaylee on a couple of occasions.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I've seen her. I've seen her in the flesh.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I've seen her in my house. One time she woke
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: me up in the morning to tap one on with
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: my her little finger like she used to do up
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: part me, was this a dream? It wasn't a dream.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: It was like you and I are talking right now.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: The strong spirit that's in our house was imagination. That's
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: not an imagination. That that's that's love, and that's that's
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a connection that I wish more people could have. Okay,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on a limb with you guys.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I definitely believe that there is a life after death.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I don't know that
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: it's anything like we imagine it to be. I don't
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: think there's a street paved with gold and rubies or
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: anything material of this earth at all. But I really
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: do believe Karen Stark, that there have been so many
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: instances of life after death, experiences of sightings, just a
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: million different things. If even one of them is true,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: just one of the millions of stories, that means there
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: is a life after death. I think it's entirely believable
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: what George is saying. I don't understand it. I don't
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: know how to explain it. But I also don't know
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: how the phone or the TV works, So you know,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: that's just something that a guy made up in his lab.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I really believe this can happen. I don't understand it,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: but there's been so many instances of this. How can
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: it be false? Karen Well, I don't know if I
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: can answer that it's false or it's true, Nancy, but
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I do know that people say it all the time
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and have told me. My own patients have told me
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: of experiences of people they lost to were standing near
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: their bed or they could see them as though, you know,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: they were back in their lives again. So, whether it
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: happens to be true or it's a wish that you
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: conjure up or another state in our mind, it certainly
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: is something that we can't say, Oh, George, there's something
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: wrong with him. It is believable in that respect. So
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: you're taking this safe route, Okay, I respect that. And Brenner,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: what does it say to you? Well, I think there's
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: a real love there that never ends, and I think
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: that he sees her. I mean, it may be more
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: than that in terms of whatever everyone's just said, but
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: it's very strong indicator about about the law, you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: of George and Sydney. So, Steve Helen, what do you
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: make of what George said? Well, I guess I'm going
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: to be the skeptic on the panel. I think he
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: was asleep. I think that you know, he was dreaming
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: or it was his imagination. I just do It's it's
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: generally how I see these things but then again, who
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: am I to tell George Anthony what he saw and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: what he didn't see. And you know, if it gives
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: nobody that's who, you know, abody exactly to tell it
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: he did or didn't see. But I don't think it's
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: something that I have to figure out today because it's
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: really beyond my understanding. But he definitely said I believe
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Steve Helen that he was awake and it was not
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: his imagination. Uh, you know what, whatever gets him with
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the comfort that he needs, I am totally on board with.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: So um, you know, I don't have to believe him.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: It's not it's not my place to believe him or not.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: But I kind of am a skeptic with this one.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You know, just hearing his words is so haunting to
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: think that Kelly appeared in the home to comfort him,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: or that he is so heartbroken that he imagines her
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: being there. I played earlier the portion of George and
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Cindy speaking where they say that they would sue if
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: she does a reality series on TV to Steve Helling
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: from People Magazine, Steve, what would the grounds, what would
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the basis of the lawsuit be? You know, they could
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: sue her for the same thing as you. As you
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: mentioned with um Ron Goldman's family suing O. J. Simpson
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: for a wrongful death, they could sue her for wrongful death.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I think that that's a possibility. Um, though I don't
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: know the statute of limitations. I'm probably the only non
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: lawyer on this panel. Um. You know, there's probably other
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: things that they could sue for as well. I mean,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: they've been through a lot. Well, if she did a
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: reality show, that would start the statute rolling when they
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: saw it or heard about it. And assuming to an Bremner,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Seattle, what do you believe
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the grounds of a laws such a lawsuit would be.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Of course, if she said anything about them that was defamatory,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: she they could sue for, you know, slant or if
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: it was sprinted libel exactly. Man, I was thinking the
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: same thing as some kind of false light or defamation. Um.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: And the statute starts, of course when when they see it,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: or infliction of of emotional distress and wrongful death. Of
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: course it is going to have generally like a ground
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: of three year statute. And the question is their sta
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: name His grandparents could be at issue as well, but
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: if she starts into something like this, then sure they
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: could look at a lawsuit and look at O. J.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Simpson's thirty three million dollar verdict against him from the
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Browns and the Goldman's I mean that judgment. It will
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: take any money that he gets. And they took that
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: book that he wrote called if I Did It? Remember,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: they took over and republished as a confessional and called
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: it I Did It. I'm gonna play you more of
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Tott Mom, Casey, Anthony's parents, George and Cindy in just
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: one moment. But I want to thank our partner making
• 36:35
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• 36:40
  Speaker 1: love fat Boy and Bremner. I know Karen Stark and
• 36:44
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• 36:47
  Speaker 1: and Steve Helen, No, fat Boy, it's my dog now, Anne?
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: What about wasn't your cat name? Was it Mickey or Mikey? Jimmy, Jimmy, Yes,
• 36:58
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• 37:02
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• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Jimmy would go and wait at the elevator. Tell me
• 37:07
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• 37:10
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• 37:14
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• 37:16
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• 37:18
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  Speaker 1: dot com code and see link a k C. Thank you.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Fat Boy and I both say thank you. And now
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I want to turn back to the latest on top
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Mom Casey Anthony. I mean, you know, Steve Helling. It's
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: just been one thing after the next. First there was
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Jose bay as his book. Then the private investigator for
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the defense Dominic what was his last names, Dave Well,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: if I say it, you're just gonna yell at me.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: But his name was Dominic Casey. You know, I thought
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: in my head it was Dominant Casey, but I couldn't
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: imagine that coincidence being true or is, And Bremner taught
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: me to say, and you'll be happy to know the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: children now say kinky dink um. Yes, so did Dominant
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Casey came out with the claims. Actually these were the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: bankruptcy papers, as I believe how they surfaced, that she
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: throughout the trial was having a sex affair with her
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: defense lawyer jose By, yes, which he denies, and that
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: he actually came to the office when weekend and saw
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: her running from one office to the next without any
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: clothes on. Because you remember, she was on house arrest
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: for a period of time Steve Helling and could go
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: to church fat Chance or to her lawyer's office, and
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: so she would stay there for hours and hours on end.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: So that was I mean, obviously that was Dominic Casey's allegations. Um,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: But I have personally caught him in things that ended
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: up not being true. So I don't know that that
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: there's any truth. I don't know, Um, you know, yeah,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: we don't know if those allegations are true or not. Um,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: they were sworn documents in bankruptcy proceedings, but whether they're true,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know. My point is that ever since her acquittal,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: there's been one episode after the next. You had her
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: defense attorney photoed shooting a bird at the public then
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: you had let's see what happened after that? Did she
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: shoot a bird in the middle of the trial or
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: was that jod Arius? I don't know, they're kind of
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: blending together. That wasn't okay? Um, then let's see what happened.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, And then there is her giving the video
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: interview where she says that guys steal are interested her
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: in her and want to buy her drinks at bars.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Karen start, Why would someone feel that they had to
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: blurt that out? Because she's a narcissist, Nancy, if you recall,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: she would go out and party and dance all night
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: knowing that her daughter was missing and that she probably
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: had killed her. So she has no conscience and um,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: she needs to get attention, be that celebrity. That's what
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: narcissists are like, you know. And Bremner, as I recall, uh,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: while the baby was quote missing, I e dead and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: discarded in a swampy area, a wooded area behind the
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: school where top Mom used to go hide out and
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: smoke and cut school in that very spot. Gee, there's
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: another coincidence that that's where the unknown killer would hide
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: the body at top mom'sill hangout nine houses down from
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the Anthony home. You know that killer didn't make it
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: very far, did he just decided for no ransom, for
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: for no reason really, to just discard the body right
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: down the street from the Anthony's home. But it remember
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: the during the interim when people were looking everywhere, volunteers, police,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: you name it, we're looking for Kelly. She Top Mom
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: was videoed at I think it was Target or Walmart,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: buying eight eighteen packs of beer and lingerie push up bra,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: of course, using forged checks from her friend. But that's
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: where her head was while everybody else was out looking
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: for her daughter. Well, and and she of course was
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: dancing in the Hot Hot Body contest. And then she
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: got the made on the stripper pole, Della vita, all right.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I forgot about the tattoo. Reminded job my memory on
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the tattoo and Bremner the sweet little tattoo put on
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: her on her arm that said love bella vita, which
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: means a beautiful life. And that was after after the
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: baby was killed. That's what I remember and that was
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that was a really big deal to in the prosecution's case,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: which was basically the the theory that you know, she
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: wanted freedom, she didn't want to have this baby, she
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: wanted the boyfriend, she wanted the hot body contest, dancing,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: you know, free wheeling, single lifestyle. And then she kind
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: of cemented her tensions with that labelivid it's my beautiful life.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I'm starting a new life. So that's how Jeff Ashton,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: the prosecutor um as I recall it, portrayed in his
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: closing argument. Listen to one more time to George and
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  Speaker 1: Cindy Anthony. What these two have lived through since the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: murder of their granddaughter and the trial of their daughter
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: is is almost more than I can imagine. Take a listen.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: This is them talking to Chris Handsome from c w D.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Take a listen. So we know we're going to pin
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: it on you because you need to fall on the
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: sword for your daughter. You need to do this, I said.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: The defense attorney said you you need to fall in
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: the sword. I need to fall in the sword from
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: my I need to take responsibility and claimed that what
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: responsibility the reason why Kaylee wasn't here with us anymore
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: the reason why she's gone. Do you think looking back,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: she was mentally ill? Yes, I think Casey is mentally ill.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: I really do. I think Casey is mentally ill. She's
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: never had her seizures worked up. You think cas a
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: seizure potentially and didn't even know what happened to Kayley.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: That's a possibility, and she doesn't remember when she has seizures.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Unless she does, she has been her tongue or something.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Would you support a lawsuit against your daughter? I don't
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: think it will overcome to that. I don't think she'll
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: sell her story. George seems to think that it might,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: and now there are rumors of reality shows, even a
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: show with her and O. J. Simpson. What do you
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: say to that if it came down to that, I
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: probably would. She's talking about Keyley still being with her
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: a part of her life and perhaps having another child,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I don't know where she could
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: have another child with It wouldn't be anywhere in the
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: United States of America. Who knows. Maybe some of the
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: country would accept her. She's had boyfriends since she's gotten out.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the suicide actept from the I'm that Kaylee.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: We were told to Kaylee was missing, taken with Zanny, whatever,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: whomever she was with. I didn't feel I did enough
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  Speaker 1: to go find her. Did you want to die? I
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: wanted to be with her. I want even to this day,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: she should be here, not me. I've seen Kaylee on
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  Speaker 1: a couple of occasions. Oh, no, I've seen her. I've
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: seen her in the flesh. I've seen her in my house.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: One time she woke me up in the morning to
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: tap one on with her little finger like she used
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: to do. Was this a jar me? Was this a dream?
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a dream. It was it was like you
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: and I are talking right now. The strong spirit that's
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: in our house was their imagination. Oh that's not an imagination.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: That that's that's love, and that's that's a connection that
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I wish more people could have. Is she a killer?
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Do you think she intentionally wanted to kill Cayley? If
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Casey is watching this, what is your message to her?
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Stay away, stay away from me. If she wants a
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: relationship again with her mom, she's got a lot of
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: explains to do. But I don't I don't want to
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: hear it no more from her. I don't want to
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: see her, Cindy. If Casey is watching this, what do
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: you say to her? Case Be true to yourself, start
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: being honest with yourself and own everything, equip putting blame
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: on everybody else. Steve helping People magazine investigative reporter and
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Bremner high profile lawyer out of Seattle Kier and start
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: renounce psychologists joining us from New York and of course
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Alan Duke, my partner in crime, joining me from l A.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: We hear it, just like you hear it. This is
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: what we think. What about you? Nancy Grace Crime Stories
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend, m m hm