Latest / All The Right Movies / Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988) | Ep. 3 - Part 1

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Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988) | Ep. 3 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

• 0:04
  All the right movies. That is so, so much you're
• 0:08
  making a big mistake. I didn't kill anybody.
• 0:10
  I swear this whole thing to set up a scam A-frame job out, that
• 0:15
  is I could never hurt anybody out.
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  My whole purpose in life is to make people.
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  Private Eye Eddie Valiant gets in over his head when he accepts
• 0:32
  a lousy Snoop job that leads him to the murky shadows of 40s
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  Hollywood in a tale of greed, sex, murder and tunes.
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  The perfect mix of golden age animation and 40s gumshoe noir,
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  Who Framed Roger Rabbit won awards and was a box office
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  blockbuster appealing to adults and kids alike.
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  My name is Luke and with me today are Westie.
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  I'm going to ram him. And John, this is the last time
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  I worked with someone with a beef impediment.
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  All the right movies are here that make people laugh, and we
• 1:03
  will work for peanuts. Hello and welcome to All the
• 1:25
  Right Movies, a mustachioed axe wield and bullet of a podcast on
• 1:29
  classic and hit films. In today's episode, we're in
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  Toontown to discuss the part live action, part animation, all
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  amazing. Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
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  Lovely. Before we do, just want to talk
• 1:40
  about Patreon for a moment. Listeners who sign up to us on
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  Patreon are richly rewarded with three podcasts per month and
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  access to all previous episodes as well.
• 1:49
  We've just done one on Keanu Reeves and John Wick, and coming
• 1:52
  up next week, it's Tommy Lee Jones and The Fugitive.
• 1:54
  So what's not to love? Right.
• 1:55
  Yeah, great. Also, the most recent 20
• 1:58
  episodes of this podcast are available to listen and download
• 2:00
  for free like you're doing now, but we archive the older
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  episodes and you can get access to the archive by signing up to
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  Patreon as well, so plenty bang for your buck.
• 2:09
  Load. Go to www.patreon.com/all the
• 2:13
  Right Movies to find out more. Back to the show though, John.
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  Why do you want to talk about who's from Roger Rabbit?
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  Well, it's the first animation we've covered, isn't it?
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  It is. Yeah, I like animations, and
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  this is up there with the most well known and the most
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  important, I think ground breaking at the time with a film
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  that blended live action animation before probably Mary
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  Poppins, maybe most famously. Yeah, nothing had ever been done
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  to the level of Roger Rabbit. The characters are great and
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  iconic. It's funny.
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  And there's a piano off between Donald and Daffy Duck.
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  I mean, come on. You love that one.
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  You do love that one. It is all about those animations
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  though. My favorite thing about the film
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  is how the passion from the animation team just jumps off
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  the screen. It's a love letter to classic
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  Looney Tunes and Disney cartoons, but also totally works
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  as its own thing as well, so there's loads of good stuff to
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  talk about. What about you, Westie?
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  Yeah, I mean, I'm excited to talk about it for mainly for the
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  craft of it when I was younger. This is one of them films that
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  just left us feeling like weird. It's like it's got a really
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  sleazy vibe to it, but it's almost too much.
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  And I rewatched it again and it was even more.
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  It was heightened over the sense of time and everything that's
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  gone on and like the themes that are in there.
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  It's just it screams Chinatown, which we're going to talk about.
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  Obviously that's just it wears it on its sleeve.
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  It was a lot to its influences and its parodies and I think it
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  does work, but it's not one of the films that I go back to with
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  like a real love of it, if you know what I mean.
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  It's got a real, it's got a bit of a gritty, dark undertone
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  which unsettles me a little bit. Right.
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  But I, I mean for, for the technique, you know, for the
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  craft of it, it's out. It's, it is out of this world
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  really. I mean for the work that's gone
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  into it. And you can see that still and I
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  think there is a lot to talk about, but there is that really
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  CD undertow that I'd like to discuss a little bit more.
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  I'd love to. It's going to it's.
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  Going to be therapy for me. Well, I was pretty much obsessed
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  with this film when I was a kid. It was the first film that I
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  remember seeing at the flicks. I might have seen something else
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  beforehand, but this is the one that I I first remember and it
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  really holds a special place for me.
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  What I love there and I still love now, but I appreciate more
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  the feat of film making, the animation along with that razor
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  sharp script as well. And I think it's a film with
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  more layers than most, with all of them firing on all cylinders
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  like lightning in a bottle. You've got Spielbergs on boards
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  and mechas. Director and ILM Dean Kundi is
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  director of photography and all the classic cartoon characters
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  are in there with Hoskins bringing his A game as well.
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  Yeah Who Friend Roger Rabbit was produced by Frank Marshall and
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  Robert Watts, distributed by Buena Vista Pictures and
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  released on the 22nd of June 1988.
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  Filmed largely at Elstree Studios in England, it was Co
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  written by Jeffrey Price and Peter S Seaman.
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  Directed by Robert Omegas, it stars Bob Hoskins, Christopher
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  Lloyd and Joanna Caste in live action roles and features the
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  voice work of Charles Fleischer and Kathleen Turner.
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  The beginning. We're going in straight to the
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  opening of the film. We're introduced to Roger Rabbit
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  and Baby Herman filming their latest classic Something's
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  Cooking, before Pi Eddie Valiant is on the scene accepting the
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  Snoop job from studio head Arcane Maroon to take a couple
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  of lousy pictures. So, John, what do you think
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  about this opening to the film? Something's cooking.
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  Oh, it's great, isn't it? Oh, amazing.
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  I know some people say that of the hundreds of classic
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  character Kami was in the film, but it's a shame Tom and Jerry
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  don't show up really, because Something's Cooking is basically
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  episode of Tom and Jerry. Yeah.
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  And just as violent. Yeah.
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  I love Tom and Jerry, obviously, And I think Something's Cooking
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  is great as an opener, the brilliant way to tell us how the
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  world works. I think the film starts like a
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  classic cartoon, and then the sudden transition when the
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  director shouts cut and we see the world as it is, is great.
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  They don't explicitly tell us, but it shows us how it all
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  works, where tunes are TV stars and their TV are are cartoons
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  basically. And then the real world where
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  they interact with people and I think it's really funny.
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  Pratfall after pratfall. It's hilarious and almost all of
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  them made me laugh. I like when he first notices
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  that Herman's missing and he's frantically running on the spot
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  tearing up the carpet. That's brilliant.
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  And when he's pants are on fire and he's running around the
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  walls really fast, brilliant as well.
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  I think great opener in terms of entertainment and also setting
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  up the whole world as well. Really good.
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  Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, that cartoon is so
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  immensely entertaining. Laugh out loud, funny straight
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  away, and poor Roger's been beaten to a pulp.
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  Definitely. I really love a baby.
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  Herman is like this cutest little kid in the world.
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  All he wants is a cookie, and that's all he's after.
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  Yeah. And then I adore this huge
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  reveal when they shall cut and he turns out to be this, like,
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  angry, hateful misogynist. It's amazing.
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  It's horrible. Really, really funny.
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  Chauvinistic Pig. Yeah, Yes.
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  This is probably one of the most entertaining cartoons I think
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  I've ever seen. It has to be.
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  It's at the top of the film. It has to introduce the world
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  and you're just, you're immediately in.
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  I mean, some people would sit and quite happily watch that for
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  an hour and a half, two hours just that.
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  But you would have, you know, you've, you probably have a
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  heart attack watching that for like 2 hours.
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  And I don't think they'd keep it up.
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  But they've crammed everything into it.
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  Like my favorite bit is when he comes out from that ironing
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  board and he's like, I'm here for you baby.
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  And a nice couple from just bit under the wall and I, I love
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  the, the scale of this as well. That kitchen's just huge and
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  you're just flying around it and you're just like, because it
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  needs to be big because most cartoons are felt even if you
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  watch Tom and Jerry feel quite contained, feel quite small.
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  So this is like you can tell it's for the big screen.
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  It's, it's shown you the grandeur of it, the size of it.
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  And I do love the way that, you know, fridge opens and then
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  you're into the world. And I'm pretty sure the guy here
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  is, is Joel Silver because he fell out with the head of Disney
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  at the time, which was Michael Eisner.
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  And it was done as like, he, he was unrecognisable, shaved his
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  beard off, didn't know it was going to be him.
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  And then they didn't actually tell Eisner this until he saw
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  the cut of it. And he was like, oh, actually,
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  yeah, he's pretty good. And he's he's like, what's this,
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  a tweeting bird? And he's like, slamming off the
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  ground. It's totally believable because
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  the dialogue is just so. It's so grown up.
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  It's so adult. It's so aggressive.
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  Like you said, baby Urban's transformation.
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  It's like, all of a sudden you're just in this really
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  unrelenting world. Yeah.
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  And then when Roger's running after him and I can give you
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  stars, and then there's that amazing plan where it just goes
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  to Hoskins and he just has that whiskey, puts it in the holster,
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  and you just go, he's got whiskey in his holster.
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  This is just Chinatown. This is amazing.
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  But that character is amazing that, like, there's so many
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  things in this opening sequence that is set up to be paid off
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  later. The stars with Roger, we've got
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  like, the character of Valley into his back story.
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  We know he's a boozer and we know he's a bit down and he's
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  look like immediately. And also, we're set up here as
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  well that tunes can take any beating and it doesn't hurt.
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  And Maroon reinforces this by explaining this in his office.
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  And he says, but break his heart.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  The producer you mentioned there played by Joel Silva.
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  Do you know what his character name is?
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  No, go for it. I don't.
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  Raul J Raul OH. Yeah, it says, it says on the
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  credits at the start of something, Yeah.
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  Amazing that. Also right at the start of that,
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  when the credits come up, that loungey sax and double bass that
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  play over the credits, they're just pure class and immediately
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  evoke the period. In fact, the whole Alan
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  Silvestri score is incredible, really evocative of the period.
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  It is. I'm not a huge fan of the score.
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  No. It just reminds me about the
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  future far too much, pulls me out of it all of the time.
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  Really. All of the time.
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  Yeah. I like the sax part where it is
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  very much 40s noir style stuff. Yeah.
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  But the way that it's the musical cues, the musical cues
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  are just so similar, the Back to the Future all of the time.
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  And when you combine that with often the accompanying
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  Christopher Lloyd's voice, it's just pulls me out with the film
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  about six or seven times while I watch it.
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  I suppose when you mentioned it there, I suppose like during the
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  action beats then it is very much to make Benny the Cabs ride
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  and when they're in Toontown as well generally with Benny the
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  cab. The score is one of the weak
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  parts of the film for me to be honest.
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  Wow. I mean, I like that opening few
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  bars, but to me it then it brings me into that kind of
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  seedy world where I've just, I've just watched this really
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  incredibly funny, really entertaining, classically drawn
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  cartoon when I was totally entertained by it.
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  And now this is slow camera moves and dusty desks and a guy
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  drinking booze from the like out of his holster.
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  It's just like, what? What the fuck?
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  And then it's just, I was like, oh, I'm so jawed by it, I dare
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  say it, But is it slightly cliched of the period?
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  Oh, yeah. He's a private detective.
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  Oh, yeah. This is the time that they're
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  in. OK Yeah.
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  It's based on Chinatown. Right.
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  Let's just do this score then, because that's exactly what you
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  would expect. Just seems a little bit on the
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  nose. Yeah, I know what you mean.
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  A little bit cliched. What I do love music wise is
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  that tune band that break out of the back of the truck when
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  Valiance looking out the window. They're amazing.
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  Yeah, they're great. They are.
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  Absolutely pandemonium, isn't it?
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  When Eddie's walking through the the lot of maroon cartoons,
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  there's a Pelican on a bike who falls off in a hilarious
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  fashion, which is great. But they couldn't they couldn't
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  get the bike to steal like the props team.
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  They were just trying to push it.
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  So it was straight past the camera.
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  I kept falling over every single time.
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  So it was like, well, we'll just animate and falling off.
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  So that just came because the props team couldn't keep the
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  bike straight. So as the over, it's probably
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  one of your favorite bits. It's so memorable.
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  He's he's like the worst postman ever.
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  So after this scene, we're introduced to Eddie's on off
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  Squeeze Dolores at the Terminal Station bar.
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  There's the reveal of the darker side of town and the source of
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  Valley in somber demeanour. We're going to pick up with
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  Valley into the Ink and Paint Club, where he catches Jessica
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  Rabbit in all her glory. And there's a few other
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  colourful characters in there as well.
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  So, Wesley, what do you think about this scene at the Ink and
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  Paint Club? I love the ink and paint club.
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  I do. I think this is like one of be
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  favorite scenes because it's got so many bits in it that me dad
• 12:26
  laughter when we're watching it and I didn't get and it's like,
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  you know, nice monkey suit and he's a big he's a big guy.
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  He's a big guy. He's a big fella.
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  You want him on the door? Wait, if you own that place, you
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  want that guy on the door. And he notices everything.
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  And he's a, he's a, he's a scary motherfucker.
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  And you wouldn't have them. He's huge.
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  I've got issues with it, which I'll get into it, but me
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  Favorite bits of Scotch on the rocks and I didn't I didn't get
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  that for years and years and years and it just picks it up
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  and it's like tunes. You know, it's and it's it's not
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  right in your face. And I didn't notice that for
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  years. But I always had me dad deck and
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  I never knew why. And he'd say, well, it's it's
• 13:00
  rocks, it's on the rocks. I was like, what does that even
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  mean? He said, it doesn't matter.
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  It doesn't matter, don't worry. But it's great.
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  It's it's it beautifully shot, this sequence.
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  It's very got a very classic vibe to it.
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  It's in no way as a parody of itself.
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  It reminds me of the star of the temple of Doom.
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  You know the anything goes sequence.
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  I just find Marvin Acme is the strangest fucking character I've
• 13:22
  ever ever experienced. Absolutely love him.
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  He's. Really.
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  White, he's just fucking weird. Do you not think you've seen his
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  outfit? Like, oh, and he's, that's
• 13:32
  ridiculous. Spraying himself with like
• 13:34
  fucking aftershave and he's just like and then he just squirting
• 13:38
  straight on volley and thinks he's hilarious.
• 13:40
  He's horrible. He is hilarious.
• 13:43
  Not bad. He's a he's a fucking maniac and
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  I'm scared. He starts pissing himself
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  laughing when he squirts that ink, and then he's got that
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  classic hand buzzer. Yeah, he put it there, pal.
• 13:53
  That's fantastic. But that's all the way through
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  the film. That hand buzzer, like it's,
• 13:56
  it's the ultimate plot twist every single time.
• 13:58
  It's a hand buzzer, but it's where Jesse is about to come out
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  and he just points. Yeah, yeah, He points and
• 14:04
  gestures to us. He is a bit of a prick.
• 14:10
  Roger talks about him like he's his dad, but he's been playing
• 14:13
  Patty cake with his girl. He's told.
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  I don't. Like it?
• 14:18
  I don't like it. Patty cake?
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  I don't like it at all, but I love the touches in there.
• 14:24
  I love the fact that Mary Poppins Penguins are in there as
• 14:27
  like the way it is, which works really well.
• 14:29
  The thing I love most about this is now that I've watched it
• 14:32
  again and the thing that I really appreciate is Betty
• 14:34
  Boop's black and White. Yeah, and everyone else.
• 14:36
  It's just such a wonderful touch.
• 14:38
  It was still voiced by Mae Questel, who was the original
• 14:41
  voice of Betty Boop as well. Yeah, Mae Questel was 80 years
• 14:44
  old at the time of release. And actually, fans of National
• 14:48
  Lampoon series Nora's and Bethany in the Christmas
• 14:50
  Vacation. All right.
• 14:51
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you, John?
• 14:53
  What do you think about this thing?
• 14:55
  I love the look of it is a 40 style club has a real
• 14:58
  authenticity to it. Also how it reflects the real
• 15:01
  life and awful segregation of the time where tunes are only
• 15:05
  allowed in the club as either performers or a staff but normal
• 15:07
  customers. Absolutely.
• 15:09
  The Betty Boop cameo is great, and obviously it operates mostly
• 15:13
  as the introduction to Jessica Rabbit and one of the main
• 15:15
  characters. I think it's fantastic.
• 15:17
  Isn't Intro to her probably one of the most iconic animated
• 15:21
  scenes Hollywood's ever? Don't I think maybe the most one
• 15:23
  of the most famous scenes in the film.
• 15:25
  I think it's fantastic. There's loads a little nice
• 15:26
  touches in there. Westie mentioned the Mary
• 15:28
  Poppins, Penguins and the boss stuff are all grey and the huge
• 15:33
  chimp guy on the door all fantastic.
• 15:37
  I'm talking about the the Paddy cake there when Acme is trying
• 15:40
  to cook Jessica into that and we're outside and Valian's
• 15:45
  trying to take the pictures. There's a really funny line that
• 15:47
  gets a little bit lost in the mix.
• 15:50
  She's saying that she has a headache and he's saying, come
• 15:52
  on, come on. And then she relents and she
• 15:54
  says, all right, but this time, take off the hand buzzer.
• 16:00
  Brilliant. So while we're on the subject
• 16:06
  with Jessica, lead animator Richard Williams and Bob
• 16:08
  Zemeckis called her the ultimate male fantasy.
• 16:11
  Apparently, she's poisoned, but Roger thinks she's Betty
• 16:13
  Crocker. What are your thoughts on
• 16:15
  Jessica John? Well, sexy, isn't she?
• 16:20
  That's not being around the Bush.
• 16:21
  I love it. Yeah, I mean, she's no Daphne
• 16:24
  off Scooby-doo, obviously. Of.
• 16:26
  Course, all the caramel Bunny. Caramel Bunny, definitely.
• 16:29
  But after them, she's great. I think she's a fantastic idea,
• 16:32
  strong character with her own agenda and that moment where she
• 16:35
  appeared from the behind the curtain is now iconic.
• 16:38
  Oh yeah. Is Roger punching above his
• 16:39
  weight with Jessica Ceiling? Massively obvious, but Benny Boo
• 16:44
  doesn't think so. See.
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  What a lucky guy. Yeah, I love.
• 16:48
  I love that. And all the tune girls fancy
• 16:50
  Roger that's. Great.
• 16:51
  Yeah, it's great. He's, he's fucking hilarious.
• 16:54
  What's not like about that? What about you, Westie?
• 16:59
  Jessica Rabbit. Yeah.
• 17:00
  I mean, I think she's caused some irreversible issues with
• 17:04
  very many people who've seen this at an age where they're
• 17:07
  just like, what on earth is going on here?
• 17:10
  I don't know if it's a little bit too much now that I've
• 17:13
  watched it again. It's all very like hyper
• 17:16
  sexualized and amazingly delivered.
• 17:19
  And like, I know you're the one that just said she was sexy and
• 17:25
  you guys went a riff about a caramel, will you?
• 17:28
  Open the door for you. You know, from a certain point
• 17:31
  of view, from a tongue in cheek point of view, yeah, absolutely
• 17:33
  fine, absolutely hilarious. But again, for me, this is a
• 17:36
  little bit more of a product of the time.
• 17:38
  I don't think you could do this now.
• 17:40
  Absolutely not. Such a blatant brush stroke of
• 17:44
  like this, is it? Every bloke's going to love this
• 17:46
  woman. Anxious.
• 17:48
  All right. I prefer a band.
• 17:50
  The Black Crows from Dumbo. Is that who it is?
• 17:54
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love them guys.
• 17:59
  Yeah, I love the whole setting. I love the way it's played out.
• 18:01
  I love how it is the personification of the nail
• 18:05
  fantasy, but I don't necessarily agree with everyone going well,
• 18:08
  yeah, that's it, they've nailed it.
• 18:09
  Because I think it's different for everybody.
• 18:11
  I hope I haven't made that confusing.
• 18:13
  Not at all. Not at all.
• 18:14
  Distance yourself very well there.
• 18:19
  I think what does work great with Jessica is how they took
• 18:21
  inspiration from classic female icon from the era.
• 18:24
  Yeah, I know the first inspiration was from another
• 18:26
  Warner Brothers cartoon legend called Tex Avery.
• 18:29
  Yes, he made a cartoon 1943 based on Red Riding Hood with a
• 18:33
  character called Red. And she was the initial
• 18:35
  inspiration for Jessica. And that cartoon was called Red
• 18:38
  Hot Riding Hood. Which is brilliant.
• 18:42
  Brilliant. Genius just gets worse.
• 18:45
  And they also took inspiration from classic Hollywood stars at
• 18:48
  the time as well, like Veronica Lake, Lauren Bacall and Rita
• 18:51
  Hayworth. I think the Rita Hayworth
• 18:53
  influence is especially obvious. Yeah, definitely red hair.
• 18:57
  And this seems very much like the one from Gilda, which sent
• 19:00
  everybody wild where we'd have things in the 40s.
• 19:03
  But Jessica Damacy doesn't feel like a rip off for a pastiche or
• 19:05
  a pale imitation. She feels like her own thing.
• 19:07
  She's Jessica Roberts. I think she's great.
• 19:10
  Oh, she's outstanding. I absolutely love that she's
• 19:12
  made out to be this classic, like, femme fatale with all the
• 19:15
  attributes. But the big reveal that our
• 19:17
  actions are entirely motivated by a love of Roger is fantastic.
• 19:21
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:22
  However, she, I mean, she does hit him over the head with a
• 19:24
  frying pan. So she's not the most sensitive
• 19:25
  of lovers, is she? That's fine in the cartoon
• 19:27
  world, though. Yeah.
• 19:30
  To make Jessica more unique as well, the animation team
• 19:32
  animated her boobs so that when she walks the bumps in the
• 19:35
  opposite direction to what would do in real life.
• 19:38
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, apparently I've not just
• 19:40
  noticed that. Yeah, right.
• 19:45
  Bouncy. She is voiced with sultry allure
• 19:47
  by Kathleen Turner. What are you laughing at?
• 19:50
  Bouncy. Oh Jesus Christ.
• 19:56
  Kathleen Turner, who voiced Jessica.
• 19:59
  She's uncredited for this, this really super iconic role.
• 20:03
  Yeah, I think it's credited to Amy Irving, isn't it?
• 20:05
  Because she's the singer. Well, yeah, she's the singer of
• 20:08
  that torch song. Why don't you do ride the steamy
• 20:11
  number in the England Pain Club? But that's all Amy Irving does.
• 20:15
  Kathleen Turner does the voice apart from that.
• 20:18
  Yeah, I know as well. When they were shooting the
• 20:19
  film, Hoskins said that Jessica obviously hadn't been sketched
• 20:22
  yet by the animators, so he had no idea what she even looked
• 20:25
  like. All right?
• 20:26
  And Zemecker said just imagine your ideal sexual fantasy.
• 20:30
  And Hoskins said what I imagined was far less risque than what
• 20:33
  Jessica ended up in life. Bit of a prude Hoskins isn't.
• 20:41
  He I love that last note when she sings Do and there's that
• 20:43
  little pause. Oh yeah, and then.
• 20:45
  She's like, when don't just laugh at everything I'm saying.
• 20:50
  I'm laughing at Luke, don't you? But it's when she's like moves
• 20:54
  away from it and and the tie slides out of her hand that that
• 20:57
  just looks amazing. It's like it's seamless.
• 21:00
  Yeah, it's great. Yeah.
• 21:02
  Also in this scene, Daffy and Donald Duck share the screen.
• 21:05
  Absolutely amazing. Steven Spielberg was on his exec
• 21:08
  producer and the film was part produced by his company Amblin
• 21:11
  Entertainment. It was he who struck deals with
• 21:13
  the major animation studios for their stars.
• 21:16
  But the worst stipulations that they had to share equal screen
• 21:18
  time, which is why you've got Daffy and Donald here.
• 21:21
  And again later on in Toon time, when Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse
• 21:24
  share the screen. Yeah, Disney allowed 81 of their
• 21:26
  characters to make an appearance, and Warners give up
• 21:29
  nineteen of their characters to the film as well, all for a flat
• 21:31
  rate fee of $5000 per character. And the word is that because
• 21:36
  Spielberg had so much pull in the industry, Disney and Warners
• 21:38
  were happy to do business so as not to sour a potential future
• 21:41
  relationship with the director. Oh, really?
• 21:44
  Disney gave up the majority of their stars, major stars for 400
• 21:49
  grand. Wow, that's incredible.
• 21:51
  Well, the power of Spielberg isn't it does what he wants.
• 21:54
  Does what he wants. There are other characters in
• 21:56
  there too from Fleischer Studios, 20th Century Fox, and
• 21:59
  Universal to name a few. Overall there are over 150
• 22:02
  pre-existing animated characters in the film.
• 22:04
  But they did want more. They got rejected by characters
• 22:07
  like Popeye, Tom and Jerry, Pepe Le Pew, Casper the Friendly
• 22:11
  Ghost because their respective studios thought that 5 grand was
• 22:13
  a bit light. Right.
• 22:14
  OK. Yeah.
• 22:15
  It wasn't supposed to be like a final scene at Acme's funeral
• 22:18
  where everybody gathered and then at the final shot of the
• 22:20
  film was cast by scared everybody away.
• 22:22
  And that was like in the original, really.
• 22:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:25
  So with the Snoop job done and Roger crying into the night, the
• 22:29
  story's just getting started. The director.
• 22:37
  The man behind the camera is our friend Robert Zemeckis.
• 22:40
  Our friend like. Wesley, what do you think of
• 22:44
  some X's work on Hoofing and Roger Rabbit?
• 22:46
  On Hoofing and Roger Rabbit, I think it's, it's fantastic.
• 22:48
  I think for for someone to take control of a project like this
• 22:52
  and to finish it, it's fucking outrageous.
• 22:55
  Yeah. It's amazing.
• 22:56
  It's a huge vision, it's a huge task.
• 22:59
  And for the things that I, you know, don't necessarily like
• 23:01
  about it, but I love that it has the balls to do that to, to turn
• 23:04
  it into more of an adult vibe. It's not necessarily a kids
• 23:08
  film. Like you can't enjoy it now and
• 23:10
  you put it on now and watch it, you know, and, and not
• 23:13
  necessarily be driven into like, well, well, this is a kids film.
• 23:15
  I'm not watching it. You know, it has got a mix of
• 23:17
  tone very well executed. Even now it still stands up.
• 23:20
  So I think he's done a fantastic job on it.
• 23:23
  What about you, John? Slightly different take for me
• 23:26
  to be honest. Wow, now I like Roberts Omegas.
• 23:29
  Back to the Future is one of my favorite films.
• 23:32
  I really like Forrest Gump, I really like Contacts, obviously,
• 23:35
  and I do really like Hoofy and Roger Rabbit as well.
• 23:38
  I think The Mecca does do a good job, but I do sort of feel like
• 23:41
  this film is a little bit of a missed opportunity as well, to
• 23:45
  be honest. I mean, it is iconic.
• 23:46
  The characters are all there. But where I do feel a little bit
• 23:49
  disappointed in the film when I watch it is in the storytelling.
• 23:53
  When you look at it Back to the Future, the storytelling is
• 23:55
  sensational. It's like, it's like Spielberg.
• 23:58
  But yeah, I don't think Zemeckis totally nails it, to be honest.
• 24:01
  And the problem I don't think is the plot, because the plot
• 24:03
  there, it's written as this noir style murder mystery that
• 24:06
  unravels as we go. It's a brilliant idea, but I
• 24:09
  think you only realize how well plotted it is after you've seen
• 24:12
  it a few times, because I don't think Zemeckis makes it crystal
• 24:15
  clear what's going on all of the time.
• 24:17
  I don't think. I mean, nowadays Zemeckis is
• 24:19
  known as this big animation guy. He's done The Polar Express and
• 24:22
  The Christmas Carol, both big hits, but I know Roger Rabbit
• 24:25
  was the first time he worked on an animated movie before, and I
• 24:28
  do think it sort of feels like that a little bit.
• 24:30
  I do wonder if so much of his time was spent focusing on that
• 24:33
  blend of live action and animation, which was such a new
• 24:36
  thing that the storytelling did become a little bit secondary.
• 24:39
  And Wesley, I think you might disagree with me here, but I
• 24:42
  don't think it looks fantastic aside from the animations
• 24:44
  either. I mean, it's Dean Cundy, so it's
• 24:46
  ALSDP, but I think it looks fantastic because mostly of the
• 24:50
  animation and the production design rather than the
• 24:53
  cinematography outside of the In Pain Club, which does look
• 24:55
  great. So I do think the Vegas did a
• 24:57
  great job in terms of it was new, it was groundbreaking and
• 25:00
  he pulled it all together. But I think if he did it now,
• 25:02
  he'd probably not get out of the park because of his extra
• 25:04
  experience. But I do find the direction a
• 25:07
  little bit frustrating at times, to be honest.
• 25:10
  Am I being really harsh? I agree with you in certain
• 25:13
  aspects. I don't think that's the story.
• 25:16
  Is that obvious? I don't.
• 25:17
  It takes a few watches to really understand what's exactly going
• 25:21
  on. And I always put that down to
• 25:23
  watching it from being a kid. And I didn't really care about
• 25:25
  this Cloverleaf and the red car thing.
• 25:27
  I just, I just wanted to see more Roger.
• 25:30
  So I just put it down to that. But now that you've mentioned
• 25:32
  it, maybe it isn't as abundantly clear as it could be, but it's a
• 25:38
  huge undertaking. And I know he's got like this
• 25:40
  super talented crew behind him as well to carry the Lord.
• 25:42
  But it's really daunting project, like you were saying,
• 25:44
  Westie, and I think he executed expertly.
• 25:48
  I think it's done absolutely fantastic.
• 25:50
  I think it's the lightness of the film and how it just whizzes
• 25:53
  by that really appeals to me. It's in and done before you get
• 25:56
  a chance to catch your breath and every scene is a marvel.
• 26:00
  He's spinning so many players here and the action has got to
• 26:02
  hit the right beats and the gags have got the land and I think
• 26:05
  they do It's fantastic. From the D PS point of view,
• 26:08
  from Dean Cundy's point of view, I do believe that they want to
• 26:11
  introduce a lot of contrast, a lot of shadow.
• 26:13
  But he's shooting all the live action first.
• 26:15
  That's going to be animated over the top of.
• 26:17
  So I think he has to play it a little bit safer.
• 26:22
  I mean, Cundy has one on type on his back, doesn't he?
• 26:24
  Because he's shooting things that don't exist.
• 26:26
  And he can't do anything outrageous because the animation
• 26:28
  team need to be able to animate everything into the scene, into
• 26:31
  the frame. So he's working with a massive
• 26:34
  limitation. So that's fair enough.
• 26:36
  Yeah, Zemeckis wasn't top of the pile on the list of directors.
• 26:40
  Disney acquired the rights to Gary Kay Wolf's 1981 novel Who
• 26:44
  Censored Roger Rabbit? Pretty much immediately when it
• 26:46
  was published. They began development for a
• 26:48
  film for a couple of years, and Zemeckis offered to direct
• 26:52
  himself. He really loved the project in
• 26:54
  1982, but with two relative flops under his belt.
• 26:57
  I want to hold your hand and use cars.
• 26:59
  Disney said no thank you. Right.
• 27:01
  I don't know if they were that polite, but based.
• 27:05
  On them two films, I would have said no, thank you.
• 27:07
  Yeah. Definitely they had Terry
• 27:12
  Gilliam in the frame to direct. That would have been fucking
• 27:15
  bonkers, wouldn't it? Let's.
• 27:16
  That would have been that would have been even more terrifying
• 27:19
  Western we we would not be talking about it now it.
• 27:21
  Was a Gilliam film. I don't think I would have
• 27:23
  finished it. I think he turned it down.
• 27:26
  He said it is conceptually inauthentic to use the Looney
• 27:29
  Tunes genre character stable as a springboard for variation on
• 27:32
  Howard the Duck. Roger Rabbit is miles better
• 27:36
  than Howard the Duck. Sure.
• 27:38
  Everything else. I know that now, Gilliam says.
• 27:43
  I completely regret that decision.
• 27:45
  Yeah, he said that he thought that it was going to be too much
• 27:48
  work, which was pure laziness on his part it.
• 27:51
  Was it's a huge amount of work. It was a massive The film went
• 27:56
  into turn around for a couple of years until Michael Eisner
• 27:59
  became Disney CEO and put it back into pre production.
• 28:02
  Zemeckis had since had two mega hits in Romance and the Storm
• 28:06
  and Back to the Future and he was stabbed up pretty much
• 28:08
  immediately. Especially Spielberg was on
• 28:11
  board his old pal. There you go.
• 28:13
  What I do love and what gives the film so much weight is the
• 28:17
  inclusion of Lords of Cameos from classic Disney, Warner
• 28:20
  Brothers, Paramount, MGM characters.
• 28:22
  And there's about 140 in total. So absolutely loads.
• 28:27
  And they get cameo was in there as well from some of the most
• 28:29
  famous voice oils. Who did them as well?
• 28:31
  Like we know Wine who did Mickey Mouse, Tony Anselmo who did
• 28:35
  Donald Duck, Mia Questel, Westley mentioned Betty Boop and
• 28:38
  olive oil and Mel Blanc who was a bit of a voice over legend,
• 28:42
  Daffy Dog, Porky Pig, Sylvester, Tweety Pie, I know as well the
• 28:46
  June production. There was a disagreement between
• 28:49
  the Mechas and Warner Brothers over the way the Looney Tunes
• 28:51
  characters should look in the film.
• 28:53
  So Warner Brothers wanted them to use the characters as they
• 28:55
  appeared at the time in the 80s, whereas the Mechas wanted to use
• 28:59
  the classic versions of the characters from the 40s.
• 29:02
  So was the Mecca sent dummy footage of Roger Rabbit using
• 29:04
  the modern designs to Warner Brothers?
• 29:06
  Warner Brothers approved the footage and then they just use
• 29:09
  the 1940 versions anyway. Brian De Palma.
• 29:18
  So which classic cartoon character cameo is your favorite
• 29:21
  in the film? Mine is Dumbo, not because he's
• 29:26
  my favorite character or because he particularly does anything,
• 29:30
  but I love the reveal of it. And he's just, you see his eyes
• 29:32
  behind the blinds, the blinds are pulled up and you get a jump
• 29:35
  scare. And it's like, there's a jump
• 29:37
  scare in this film and you're being jump scared by Dumbo and
• 29:40
  you're just like, oh, that's just fucking amazing.
• 29:43
  Just probably one of the nicest characters from Disney ever.
• 29:46
  And it's just made you shit yourself.
• 29:48
  And then there's that really great line.
• 29:49
  It's like he just works for peanuts again, throws him out
• 29:53
  the window. It works parody of itself.
• 29:55
  Really, really good. I love that bit.
• 29:57
  I'm going to go with Yosemite Sam of.
• 29:59
  Course you are. He's amazing.
• 30:03
  If Pepe Le Pew or Marvin the Martian were in this, they would
• 30:06
  be mine. But it's your somebody, Sam.
• 30:09
  When he puts out the fire on his ass, his mustache lifts his hat
• 30:12
  off his head. Yeah, it's.
• 30:14
  Really funny, my favorite. Definitely the ink and paint
• 30:18
  club piano jugo between the two ducks.
• 30:20
  Oh amazing. Warner Brothers, Daffy and
• 30:22
  Disney's Donald. Probably the best scene ever
• 30:24
  maybe. Daffy maybe?
• 30:28
  Daffy is easily my favorite classical cartoon character.
• 30:30
  Watching Daffy frantically # away at the piano always makes
• 30:34
  me laugh. He's wearing boxing gloves at
• 30:35
  one point and still is not. Perfectly, yeah.
• 30:39
  Is he playing with these elbows at one point?
• 30:40
  Everything. The great thing about this scene
• 30:43
  is like the fucking They hate each other as well, don't they?
• 30:46
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 30:50
  While like about it as well is that I know for this sequence,
• 30:53
  Zemeckis didn't storyboard it. You had a guy called Chuck Jones
• 30:56
  do it. So Chuck Jones wrote and
• 30:58
  directed Lords of the Looney Tunes cartoons in the 30s and
• 31:00
  40s. I think what the film does
• 31:02
  great, and this scene might be the best example, is that when
• 31:05
  we see these classic characters, it does feel authentic.
• 31:08
  It doesn't feel like we're watching modern interpretations
• 31:10
  of them. It feels like the classic
• 31:11
  versions of them. And having Chuck Jones
• 31:13
  storyboard this particular scene is obviously the reason why,
• 31:15
  because it feels like Daffy and Donald Duck.
• 31:18
  Yeah. It's absolutely brilliant.
• 31:20
  I love the way they're taking off the stage as well with them
• 31:22
  hooks and you just say, yeah, hold off, that's OK.
• 31:25
  Yeah. Still laughing.
• 31:27
  And he's killing himself. They never get to finish the
• 31:30
  ACT. What are you surprised for then?
• 31:36
  Why is why he's still laughing. So that so they must go to go
• 31:40
  now. Scraps on the piano every single
• 31:42
  night. Yeah, every single night.
• 31:46
  Absolute pandemonium. We mentioned about the noir
• 31:50
  elements in the film and they make us loved that part of it.
• 31:54
  There are a number of shots in there that peel Marge to the
• 31:56
  great Hollywood tradition Valley and hangs his hat on a Maltese
• 31:59
  Falcon. The writing on the glass door of
• 32:01
  Eddie's office is shot from the inside, which is a classic noir
• 32:04
  trope. And Roger chewing on the blinds
• 32:08
  in RK Maroon's office is a direct nod to Bert Young doing a
• 32:12
  similar thing in Chinatown. Nice.
• 32:14
  I know from the very first screening they showed this to 18
• 32:17
  and 19 year olds and almost all of them left the theatre and it
• 32:22
  was just about two of them left and the producer turned to Megas
• 32:25
  and said what do you think about this?
• 32:26
  He said no, I'm not going to change a thing.
• 32:29
  It's absolutely perfect. It's not 4 then.
• 32:34
  Yeah, 1819 year old, that's probably the worst age you want
• 32:37
  to see. Yeah.
• 32:38
  That's not the demographic. Yeah, it's for kids and it's for
• 32:41
  adults. Yeah, 19.
• 32:43
  You're too cruel for this sort of thing, aren't you?
• 32:45
  Exactly. Exactly the reason why I
• 32:47
  probably didn't watch it for a good chunk of time from my teen
• 32:50
  years up to I was about late late 20s.
• 32:53
  It's not a great chat up line is it?
• 32:55
  Come back and watch Roger Rabbit.
• 32:57
  Definitely not, and I've tried to be honest.
• 33:02
  Didn't work. No Patty cake Game of Patty.
• 33:07
  Cake. Fancy game of Patty cake.
• 33:17
  So somatic is hitting one out of the park with whom frame Roger
• 33:19
  Rabbit. Unless you speak to John, of
• 33:21
  course. No, he's great.
• 33:23
  I just think it could be better. Don't back pedal.
• 33:25
  Now the cast. Looking at the main cast of
• 33:36
  Hoofer and Roger Rabbit, first place that we're going to look
• 33:38
  is Bob Hoskins, who plays Private Snoop, Eddie Valiant,
• 33:42
  Westie. What do you think of Hoskins as
• 33:44
  Valiant? I've not seen him better than
• 33:45
  anything. I think he's fucking brilliant
• 33:48
  in this. He just carries the whole film.
• 33:51
  Boom. He has in a brilliant arc.
• 33:53
  He's completely he's sword beaten up and down and done with
• 33:59
  everything. It's it's a real tortured soul
• 34:01
  and a real tortured performance. And then to go all the way to a
• 34:04
  song and dance number at the end and make you.
• 34:05
  Believe it like. Bob Hoskins doing that, It's
• 34:08
  just like you're pissed uncle at a wedding or something and it's.
• 34:11
  Fantastic. There's not a bad line spoken by
• 34:15
  him. He's got, he's given some hard
• 34:16
  dialogue as well to really nail home and make seem plausible and
• 34:21
  and believable. And I think he does really,
• 34:23
  really well with it. And it's the scenes where it's
• 34:24
  just him with Roger and they're just going at it.
• 34:28
  It's, it's 100% like he's just pissed off.
• 34:31
  Like it's just when one of your kids is just going mental around
• 34:34
  the house and he's trying to calm them down.
• 34:36
  And he's just, he captures it perfectly and he's acting to
• 34:38
  nothing. I first saw him in ZZ Dawn,
• 34:41
  obviously, which I loved him in. I thought he was Castle on Good
• 34:45
  Fridays, brilliant, Cotton Crumb, obviously Mona Lisa and
• 34:48
  they're all fantastic. But I think if you look at this
• 34:50
  stuff he did after this, this is almost like his zenith.
• 34:53
  This is like his peak. John yeah, I think when he had
• 34:57
  just watched the film and Hoskins performance, he's he is
• 34:59
  very good. He hits the right moments,
• 35:01
  whether it's comedy or drama. The character does have an arc
• 35:04
  and he portrays that well. But I think it's when you see
• 35:07
  behind the scenes footage that you realizes how good a job
• 35:09
  Hoskins did. Absolutely.
• 35:11
  When he's acting Officer Roger, which is most of the film, he's
• 35:14
  acting. It's nothing obviously and you
• 35:16
  can't tell from his performance at all.
• 35:18
  And the scene set in tune, tone, especially, where everything
• 35:20
  except Hoskins is animated and the backgrounds, you're acting
• 35:23
  with nothing at all except the blue screen.
• 35:25
  That footage that you can see you've been doing that is really
• 35:28
  impressive. And when you do see that, you
• 35:29
  realize he didn't just do a good job.
• 35:31
  He was absolutely incredible. Brilliant.
• 35:33
  Yeah. Amazing.
• 35:35
  It's a bit when you see Benny the cab for me, like you see
• 35:38
  them behind the scenes, he can't be comfortable.
• 35:40
  He's ties blowing over his shoulder.
• 35:41
  He's just kind of his belly's hanging over the top of this,
• 35:44
  but he's he's just still absolutely nailing it.
• 35:46
  It's fucking brilliant. Yeah, I think he's perfectly
• 35:49
  placed to portray this character.
• 35:51
  He's got a classic deadpan style, but he I think he's got
• 35:53
  some really good comic time. And like you mentioned the song
• 35:55
  and dance number at the end. Yeah.
• 35:57
  Fantastic. I love that he's shown as this
• 35:59
  tough guy pretty much immediately in the bar when the
• 36:03
  guy Angelo is having a Gordon for working with tunes and he
• 36:07
  kicks the chair from under underneath him and shoves a hard
• 36:10
  boiled egg in his mouth. Horrible.
• 36:11
  And calls him Meatball. He's horrible, that guy that
• 36:17
  actually redeems himself, but he's fucking disgusting.
• 36:19
  Yeah, probably one of my favorite scenes is when we first
• 36:23
  see Valiant in his office. We've got loads and loads of
• 36:26
  character development. He's looking at the pictures of
• 36:28
  the holiday, having Catalina. So we've got like Eddie's
• 36:31
  relationship with Dolores and with Teddy's brother.
• 36:34
  Oh yeah, you got. That's like classic swoop around
• 36:36
  the office. It's like newspaper cuttings and
• 36:38
  photographs. Absolutely amazing.
• 36:39
  So he's portrayed as this kind of like fun love and party kind
• 36:43
  of guy who's been completely changed into this massive cell
• 36:46
  pus because of this really emotional moment in his life.
• 36:50
  That's reminds me of the opening about the future when it scans
• 36:52
  over all the clocks and you see basically the whole story.
• 36:55
  And Zemeckis loves that kind of exposition where it's just
• 36:58
  delivered visually and one kind of swoop, like, pay attention or
• 37:02
  this isn't going to work for you.
• 37:04
  Everything you were seeing there from the news clippings we found
• 37:06
  out that he loved nothing more than working in Toontown and
• 37:09
  we're scanning over these photos has revealed that Eddie and his
• 37:11
  brother were part of this world famous Barnum and Bailey
• 37:15
  travelling circus, most recently depicted in The Great Showman a
• 37:18
  few years back. BT Barnum.
• 37:20
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so this gives an added
• 37:22
  lead. Eddie's characters further
• 37:23
  cement the fact that he's all about the laughs and
• 37:25
  entertaining people. Or he certainly was until this
• 37:27
  traumatic event has happened. And it's expertly done.
• 37:30
  Like you've said, Westie in 1-2 minute scene with 0 dialogue,
• 37:33
  we've got a completely fleshed out character.
• 37:36
  It's fantastic and it's very sad to see that he's turned into
• 37:38
  this drunk, miserable bastard. Yeah.
• 37:41
  And I look like all the dust on Teddy's desk as well.
• 37:44
  Nothing's been moved. Yeah.
• 37:46
  And then when Roger touches it, he's like, don't sit there.
• 37:49
  It's like, there's that real moment where you just think,
• 37:51
  Jesus Christ. Yeah.
• 37:52
  Fantastic. It's brilliant.
• 37:53
  Love it. I do have a little bit of a
• 37:55
  problem with his American accent.
• 37:57
  Oh, really? It waves off in certain areas.
• 38:00
  I think it's generally in his office when Roger's there, when
• 38:03
  the weasels leave and he says, for starters, don't ever kiss me
• 38:07
  again. It's terrible.
• 38:10
  It doesn't bother me because this was the first film I ever
• 38:12
  saw him in and I probably saw this 10 times before I ever saw
• 38:15
  Bob Hoskins and anything else. So that was how he spoke for
• 38:18
  probably the 1st 20 years of my life.
• 38:20
  So the accent doesn't really bother us that much.
• 38:22
  Right. OK, in the early days, 188182
• 38:26
  voice actor Peter Renadier screen tested for the part of
• 38:29
  Valiant. But when it hit full throttle in
• 38:31
  the mid 80s, there was a a list and a half of potentials.
• 38:34
  Harrison Ford was top, but because the budget was tightly
• 38:37
  proved too expensive, Chevy Chase turned it down and Bill
• 38:41
  Murray was next on the list. And he was uncontactable.
• 38:43
  When he later found out that he was in the frame, he said he
• 38:45
  would have done it in a heartbeat.
• 38:47
  He was in public when he found out.
• 38:49
  He screamed out loud, apparently.
• 38:52
  Classic Murray. Joe Pantoliano actually screen
• 38:57
  tested for the Royal Joey Pants. Yeah, when Richard Williams was
• 39:01
  first drafted in to to show what his animation could do, it was
• 39:05
  Joe Pantoliano who was playing Valiant.
• 39:07
  And he's a little clip of him as Valiant, if you haven't heard
• 39:10
  it. What the hell are you doing
• 39:11
  here? I mean, a place to hide.
• 39:13
  I'm in trouble. Lied.
• 39:15
  You're right. Haven't noticed I'm a rabbit.
• 39:17
  Right. And you're not going to get away
• 39:20
  from me again. Slightly better American accent
• 39:23
  there. Slightly.
• 39:28
  Then there were the usual names bandied about in any 80s film.
• 39:31
  Jack Nicholson sliced alone, Robert Redford, Ed Harris was
• 39:34
  mentioned, and also Charles Gordon.
• 39:36
  Yeah, and considering Hoskins was way down on this list of
• 39:39
  candidates for the role, would you have liked to see in any of
• 39:41
  those as Valiant? Yeah, well, I've got a couple
• 39:43
  more names as well. I mean, I think Mirandas was in
• 39:45
  there. Tom Hanks, Harrison Ford, Eddie
• 39:48
  Murphy turned the role down. So anybody big in the 80s?
• 39:51
  Yeah. Everybody.
• 39:52
  The whole hit. Yeah, and again, Eddie Murphy
• 39:54
  said that he later regretted this.
• 39:55
  I mean, of course, I do know that.
• 39:56
  The one that Bill Murray, and I would love to have seen him in
• 39:59
  there. The scenes between Murray and
• 40:01
  Roger would have been absolutely fantastic.
• 40:03
  I think it would probably be one of Murray's best and most famous
• 40:05
  roles if he had ended up taking it.
• 40:07
  Definitely of those other names, other names they were mentioned.
• 40:10
  I think Hanks would have been pretty great.
• 40:12
  I would have loved that as well. Yeah.
• 40:14
  I mean, Hoskins did a brilliant job, like I say, so I definitely
• 40:17
  wouldn't change it necessarily, but I would love to have seen
• 40:19
  what Murray or Hanks could come up with in that lead role.
• 40:22
  Fantastic. What about you Westie?
• 40:23
  Any of those names that you would like to see in as Valiant?
• 40:26
  Well, I've got a mirror box and I kind of just ignore the fact
• 40:28
  that Murray was going to be in there, which would have been
• 40:30
  sensational. That comedy timer would have
• 40:32
  probably been even sharper and a little bit more tongue in cheek
• 40:35
  and I think you would have him acting against the tunes would
• 40:38
  have just been a perfect match between the two things.
• 40:41
  I think he would have been fantastic in it.
• 40:43
  I like to have seen Gruden actually, because at this point
• 40:45
  there wasn't any like massive names and I love him in It's
• 40:49
  Hilarious in Midnight Run, obviously one of your
• 40:51
  favourites, but I think he would have, he would have been like
• 40:53
  really good as that kind of like disheveled down and out.
• 40:56
  PII think he would have been really good.
• 40:58
  I can see him in the hat. I can see him talking to
• 40:59
  Dolores. I can see him like being pissed
• 41:01
  off with Roger. Like I think he would have been
• 41:03
  really good as well. So out of them, yeah, I would
• 41:04
  have said like Murray and maybe Gordon and Hanks obviously would
• 41:07
  have been fantastic. Been like Rotten Edition, but
• 41:09
  just without the violence. And cartoons.
• 41:14
  Well, yeah, that that's small point as well.
• 41:19
  Much like you, Westie would have loved to have seen Charles
• 41:22
  Gordon in there. I do love him in Midnight Run,
• 41:24
  which came out I believe this year as well, 1988.
• 41:28
  And he's got really fantastic comic timing and he's deadpan
• 41:32
  style in Midnight Run. I think it's perfect for this.
• 41:35
  But I think I'm just looking at that from Bob Hoskins point of
• 41:38
  view. It's a similar kind of style
• 41:39
  that I see. So I would like to have seen his
• 41:41
  take, but I wouldn't change. Bob Hoskins.
• 41:43
  I think he's fantastic. The others Murray would have
• 41:47
  been good Obviously. Chase definitely would have had
• 41:50
  sex with Jessica 100%. Is that even possible though?
• 41:57
  That's the animators I don't know.
• 42:00
  Well, with Hoskins on board, the shoot lasted 8 months.
• 42:03
  So that's Hoskins for eight months.
• 42:05
  Imagining the majority of his Co stars, that's pretty tough
• 42:08
  going. Yeah, I've got a quote from
• 42:10
  Hoskins about working on the film and all the blue screen
• 42:12
  that was involved, where he said I had to learn to hallucinate to
• 42:15
  do it. After doing it for six months
• 42:18
  for 16 hours a day, I lost control of it and had wheels and
• 42:21
  rabbits popping out the wall at me.
• 42:25
  Terrifying sounds. Like a really bad trip, doesn't
• 42:28
  it? Horrible that another great
• 42:30
  quote as well for me son. He like didn't speak to him for
• 42:33
  two weeks and he said well, why? And then finally found out that
• 42:36
  were you acting with Bugs Bunny and you haven't introduced this
• 42:39
  to him Like I didn't get to meet him.
• 42:40
  That's great. Is that just what A.
• 42:42
  Story. That's so sweet, isn't it?
• 42:47
  That level of guilt though, knowing that you could never
• 42:49
  fulfill that wish. Sorry mate, how?
• 42:52
  How do you explain to him I can't introduce you to him?
• 42:55
  I'm just, I'm going to have to ruin the whole film, just see a
• 42:58
  glimpse of reality. To help aid his method, Charles
• 43:01
  Fleischer, who plays Roger, he would dress in a full rabbit
• 43:04
  costume, floppies and old, and stand off camera and act the
• 43:08
  scene out with Bob Hoskins. I think Hoskins said that
• 43:11
  Fleischer was completely nuts. Yeah.
• 43:14
  Which is what you've got to be to play Roger Robert.
• 43:16
  Yeah, the cast were unanimous in the praise for Hoskins.
• 43:18
  Joanna Cassidy, who plays Loris, she said.
• 43:21
  He was masterful. He had a photographic memory.
• 43:24
  He was a genius. Genius.
• 43:25
  Hoskins good at science or something.
• 43:33
  Bob Hoskins have been performing since the early 70s, but it was
• 43:36
  his turn as Mafia kingpin Harold Shandin the Long Good Friday
• 43:39
  that catapulted his career. He went a BAFTA for Mona Lisa in
• 43:42
  1986. A couple of years before this
• 43:44
  and after, Roger Rabbit did become quite a Hollywood star
• 43:48
  For a little while. He starred in things like
• 43:50
  Mermaids and Hook, but also he starred in Super Mario.
• 43:54
  Brothers. Don't mention that.
• 43:59
  Moving on to the main man, the star of the show, whose purpose
• 44:02
  in life is to make people laugh, that's Charles Fleischer, who
• 44:05
  plays Roger Rabbit. Firstly, what do you think of
• 44:07
  the character of Roger Rabbit John?
• 44:09
  Well, he's fantastic, isn't he? He's a, he's a complete lunatic
• 44:13
  and I love him as a character. He doesn't feel out of his
• 44:16
  depth, sharing the screen with all these huge icons.
• 44:19
  And I think that's an achievement in itself, to be
• 44:21
  honest. Absolutely.
• 44:21
  Roger could have easily been swallowed whole as soon as Bugs
• 44:24
  Bunny, Mickey Mouse and Duffy don't come on the screen, but
• 44:27
  he's not, which I actually find quite incredible.
• 44:30
  And looks wise, he seems to be a bit of a mix of everything.
• 44:32
  He looks a bit Looney Tunes, a bit Disney, a bit tech savory,
• 44:35
  but doesn't feel like a pastiche.
• 44:38
  He feels like Roger Rabbit. Yeah, but he's got his own style
• 44:41
  and identity, hasn't he? Absolutely, yeah.
• 44:43
  And mostly I just find him absolutely hilarious.
• 44:46
  Loads of laugh out loud moments. And honestly, I think he's one
• 44:48
  of the funniest characters I've seen in a film.
• 44:50
  And with all those huge characters he's following that
• 44:52
  we've mentioned, which I think we should really be sitting here
• 44:54
  saying, yeah, Roger's all right, but he's no Looney Tunes, is he?
• 44:58
  But we're not. He holds his own.
• 45:00
  I think he's an absolutely fantastic creation.
• 45:02
  Totally agree. I think that's the same with all
• 45:05
  of the characters. All of the new cartoon
• 45:06
  characters completely hold their own when they're up against
• 45:09
  these absolute icons of the screen.
• 45:11
  Yeah, what about USD? Yeah, exactly the same.
• 45:14
  I love how they've made him, you know, very accessible and he's
• 45:17
  he's colour palettes, red, white and blue.
• 45:19
  So he's almost like he's got this patriotic vibe
• 45:21
  automatically. He's an entertainer.
• 45:23
  He's a classic entertainer. You don't know what period he's
• 45:26
  from particularly. He could fit any single
• 45:29
  generation would find him funny. So I think he spans that whole
• 45:33
  time, the whole Looney Tunes, Warner Bros and the whole Disney
• 45:36
  kind of time frame. They were still trying to find
• 45:40
  something. I think what they've done is
• 45:41
  they've found the absolute best elements of all these different
• 45:44
  characters and created this character that, I mean, at times
• 45:48
  is very, very close to just being annoying.
• 45:50
  And then he's so endearing. Do you know what I mean?
• 45:53
  He's. Just so close.
• 45:54
  Pissing you off, but then he's lovely.
• 45:57
  I always feel a massive amount of sympathy for Roger straight
• 46:00
  from the get go. He breaks my heart.
• 46:03
  He gets a fridge slammed on his head and valiant and utter
• 46:06
  shithead to him, barking orders and yanking his ears all the
• 46:10
  time. Terrible.
• 46:11
  And I always feel that huge pang of emotion when he's crying when
• 46:14
  he finds out about Jessica and the panic cake thing.
• 46:16
  Oh God. Yeah.
• 46:20
  There are certain parts, like U Westy, where Roger skirts the
• 46:23
  line and waivers ever so slightly into being annoying or
• 46:26
  possibly annoying, but then he does bring it back because he's
• 46:29
  just a lovely, lovely guy. He.
• 46:31
  Really is. I really love him.
• 46:32
  In the scene in the back of the bar where he's handcuffed to
• 46:35
  Eddie, he's dashing around all over the place, looking through
• 46:38
  the spy hole, and he takes the his hand out of the cuffs and he
• 46:41
  says that he couldn't take it out anytime, only when it was
• 46:44
  funny. Great line, Great line.
• 46:47
  Great delivery in that as well. Yeah, the delivery is always
• 46:49
  great. I love the bit way he's
• 46:50
  handcuffed to Eddie and Eddie's office and these the weasels
• 46:53
  turn up and Roger dives into the bottom drawing at his desk and
• 46:56
  then appears out the top drawer. He says, remember, you never saw
• 46:59
  me. Fantastic.
• 47:04
  I like that he's constantly fooling around.
• 47:06
  The camera's off him for a second, then goes back to him
• 47:08
  and he's hanging off like a ceiling fan from his ears, and
• 47:11
  then it goes back and it comes back again and he's saw in his
• 47:14
  head and laughing about it. It's like a like a file.
• 47:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant.
• 47:24
  Roger was this huge melting pot of different cartoon characters.
• 47:27
  The design is supposed to convey the production calibre of
• 47:30
  Disney, the character design of Warner's Looney Tunes and the
• 47:33
  sense of humour of Tex Avery. His face is meant to resemble
• 47:37
  the Looney Tunes characters. His torso, a Disney hero with
• 47:40
  his overalls or a nod to Goofy and his gloves.
• 47:43
  Mickey Mouse, his ball type. Porky Pixel.
• 47:45
  Like you said, John, he's this big mishmash of different
• 47:48
  characters. Didn't actually know that, I
• 47:50
  just took that from his look. So I never read spotted that
• 47:53
  they were the specific things that took.
• 47:54
  So they did not read well because I just think of Roger
• 47:56
  Robert when I see him. Yeah, it's not obvious, is it?
• 47:59
  No, no, not at all. In the early stages of
• 48:02
  development, early 80s pre fame, Paul Rubens, if he ever had that
• 48:07
  much fame, was the voice of Roger.
• 48:09
  He would lead to get a little bit of fame playing Pee Wee
• 48:12
  Herman and Pee Wee Herman's Big adventure Tim Burton film.
• 48:15
  Yeah. Would you like to hear a snippet
• 48:17
  of that dialogue? I'd love to.
• 48:19
  Here it is. Oh.
• 48:21
  Yes, Sir, but wouldn't it be more helpful if I started to get
• 48:25
  to came along with you baby? Because what, what maybe you got
• 48:27
  you got to get into some more locks or something.
• 48:31
  OK. You definitely would have
• 48:33
  skirted over the annoying line with that.
• 48:35
  Like, yeah. Yeah.
• 48:38
  Fly sure was perfect. Yeah.
• 48:40
  But when Hoofer and Roger Abbott was abandoned in the mid 80s, so
• 48:44
  was Reubens, and when it was picked back up, Fleischer was
• 48:46
  first choice. He said unquestionably I'm a
• 48:49
  stand up comedian, so my purpose in life is to make people laugh.
• 48:52
  I related to Rog more than any human character I've ever
• 48:54
  played. Wow.
• 48:56
  Rog Oh, I love that. So what do you think of
• 49:02
  Fleischer's voice work? He also voiced Benny the Cab and
• 49:05
  a couple of the Weasels as well. Yeah, he's greasy and psycho,
• 49:08
  isn't he? That's right.
• 49:09
  Yeah, greasy like the he was like in the in the purple zoot
• 49:12
  suit. No, no, Greasy's the one in the
• 49:14
  green suit. The Mexican so.
• 49:16
  They call the Mexican greasy. Yeah, I know.
• 49:19
  It's outrageous, isn't it? He's fantastic and I didn't know
• 49:24
  it was this guy until you totally ruined Zodiac for us on
• 49:27
  the podcast. That massive reveal on the
• 49:29
  Zodiac episode do you like? Really my only recollection of
• 49:34
  Fleischer is in Nightmare on Street in Zodiac, so I can't, I
• 49:40
  can't really picture this guy in a big rabbit suit being like
• 49:43
  Eddie. His voice work is fantastic.
• 49:47
  Like we said, every line is perfectly delivered.
• 49:50
  When it's supposed to be funny, it's really funny.
• 49:52
  And then when he needs to be emotional, it's really
• 49:55
  emotional. Oh yeah, it is.
• 49:57
  He hits every single beat to the 100%.
• 50:00
  What about you, John? I think he's incredible.
• 50:04
  Roger's voice is instantly recognizable but doesn't sound
• 50:06
  like any classic Disney or Looney Tunes characters.
• 50:08
  It sounds totally unique. His delivery of the lines is
• 50:11
  always perfectly clear, and obviously there are a lot of
• 50:13
  comedy lines in there and he nails every single one of them.
• 50:17
  I think he clearly 100% understands the genre of these
• 50:20
  classic cartoons. The newly created animated
• 50:23
  characters all stand up alongside the character, the
• 50:26
  classic ones. And I think Lord of that,
• 50:28
  especially with Roger, is down to Charles Fleischer.
• 50:30
  He did a fantastic job. Fantastic.
• 50:33
  Yeah, I think what's really impressive is not just Roger,
• 50:35
  but the other characters voices that he does.
• 50:37
  They're pulls apart. Benny, the cab sounds completely
• 50:40
  different to Roger. You would not bet in a million
• 50:43
  years that I was the same person, No.
• 50:45
  Even when they're sharing scenes, you can't even tell.
• 50:48
  Like it's the same guy. Yeah, that's right.
• 50:49
  To himself. It's it's brilliant.
• 50:52
  I love Benny the Cab's voice as well.
• 50:53
  Like it's. Just, oh, he's amazing.
• 50:55
  It's so brilliant. It's.
• 50:56
  Exactly what you want that cab to sound like.
• 50:58
  It's just. Exactly right.
• 50:59
  It's. What, Like it's what De Niro's
• 51:01
  cab would sound like in Taxi Driver.
• 51:06
  Flash is a standard comic by trade.
• 51:09
  He's had loads of live action roles, but as Wesley mentioned,
• 51:12
  his stand outs are his one scene performances in On Elm Street
• 51:15
  and as we've talked about a few episodes, his chill and roll
• 51:17
  insurance or the Yak. Amazing that.
• 51:20
  Finally, on our cast list, Christopher Lloyd is the feesome
• 51:23
  Judge Doom. So, Westie, what do you think
• 51:26
  about Christopher Lloyd as Judge Doom?
• 51:28
  Too far. Too far.
• 51:29
  Too far too too. Scary.
• 51:31
  Too much? Traumatized.
• 51:36
  I need, I need, I'm going to flick on the me notes here,
• 51:38
  which is literally half a page, and then I'm going to tear it
• 51:40
  out and burn them. It's always, always freaked me
• 51:46
  out, no matter what role it is, whether he's the guy in the hat
• 51:49
  where he's coming in and he just, you know, looks like the
• 51:52
  body at Raiders or when he turns into the tune at the end.
• 51:56
  No, still now. Terrified, horrible.
• 51:59
  Hate it. Great performance, wonderful,
• 52:01
  lovely, but too scary. Too far for me as a kid, too far
• 52:04
  for me now. It just hits every single note
• 52:06
  that scares me. Big hats, long coats, canes
• 52:09
  horrible there. And I was scared of Doc when I
• 52:12
  first saw about the future when I was younger and I just he just
• 52:16
  had that wide eyed like craziness.
• 52:18
  But he was really endearing in this.
• 52:20
  He's got that wide eyed, horrible craziness, never blinks
• 52:23
  throughout the whole film, which is terrifying in itself.
• 52:26
  So he's almost like Hannibal Lecter of Toontown.
• 52:29
  He's just this this horrible specter.
• 52:34
  And then when he runs and he's laughing now.
• 52:38
  Just know. It's too much.
• 52:40
  John, is he too much for you? He.
• 52:43
  Has some really good moments like in Dolores's bar, and
• 52:46
  actually I remember I was absolutely petrified from as a
• 52:49
  kid as well. So there's lots of good things
• 52:51
  there for sure. I think the main issue I have is
• 52:53
  that he's just not funny, at least not to me, and I think he
• 52:57
  should be. I mean, Roger's funny, the
• 52:58
  wheels are funny, the cameos are funny, but Doom isn't funny like
• 53:01
  at all. And I do think he's written to
• 53:03
  be funny at times. So Christopher Logan Doom, I do
• 53:06
  think he's good. He feels like a bad guy.
• 53:08
  He has a presence. He is terrifying, but I wouldn't
• 53:11
  say he's fantastic. And of all the main cast, he's
• 53:16
  the one who would be least sorry to see get replaced if we could
• 53:19
  do that, which we can't. Unfortunately.
• 53:23
  Wow, I'm surprised at that, really.
• 53:26
  I really like him. I love this like huge dark cloud
• 53:29
  that he casts over the whole of Hollywood.
• 53:31
  He's utterly terrifying. I'm not crying out for him to be
• 53:33
  funny. I think that it needs a bit of a
• 53:36
  balance and he offers that. I like that he keeps a rubber
• 53:39
  glove on his person at all times, just in case he needs to
• 53:42
  dish out some tune justice. It's genuinely affecting when he
• 53:45
  puts that weep and shoo in the dip.
• 53:47
  But that's despicable. It's horrible.
• 53:51
  I still cannot watch it now. I used to have to watch the one
• 53:54
  that was edited for television where it just cuts to him with
• 53:57
  the steam all over his face. How bad do you want us to feel?
• 54:00
  So I guess like how I get it, I totally get it, but how bad do
• 54:04
  you want us to feel about this situation?
• 54:05
  It's like watching the knife scene at the end of Saving
• 54:08
  Private Ryan. It's like it's just, it's that
• 54:10
  painful. But every he does everything I
• 54:12
  hate, he puts that little shoe in the dip.
• 54:14
  Asshole he scratches on a on the blackboard.
• 54:17
  Despicable asshole. He's horrible anywhere near him.
• 54:22
  I really don't like him. Those cries and whimpers of the
• 54:27
  shoe were voiced by Nancy Cartwright, who one year later
• 54:32
  would become the voice of Bart Simpson.
• 54:34
  Oh wow, Simpson. Yeah.
• 54:35
  Which is? Do you think you can tell?
• 54:37
  I'll play it for you. No.
• 54:39
  So yeah, if you can handle it, the hero comes.
• 54:51
  Thanks for that. Put us through it again when I
• 54:56
  thought I'd seen it for the last time.
• 54:59
  I mean, it's pretty unrecognizable that that is Bart
• 55:01
  Simpson really, isn't it? Well, it is, yeah.
• 55:03
  Well, yeah, it is. Dooms ragtag entourage or the
• 55:07
  bunch of degenerates known as the Weasels.
• 55:09
  But originally Doom had a much bigger entourage.
• 55:11
  The Weasels crew was bigger in numbers, two more to mimic the
• 55:15
  seven dwarfs. Right, lovely.
• 55:17
  He also had a pet vulture that sat on his shoulder.
• 55:20
  And he also had a jury of Kangaroos that would pull out
• 55:22
  individual letters from their pouches that would spell out
• 55:25
  you're guilty. That's terrifying.
• 55:31
  I'm so pleased none of that happened.
• 55:34
  So I'd say kangaroo court then, I suppose.
• 55:36
  That's right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 55:38
  Yeah. Lovely, Lloyd said.
• 55:40
  A lot of people have come to me since Roger Rabbit Open to say
• 55:42
  that when they saw the movie when they were kids, they had
• 55:45
  nightmares afterwards, which like Western.
• 55:47
  Still that. He said.
• 55:48
  The first few Disney films like Bambi, Snow White and the Seven
• 55:51
  Dwarfs gave me nightmares too, so I thought it was a bit of a
• 55:53
  reasonable payback. Yeah, it's not really the same
• 55:56
  though. Those films like Bambi, they
• 55:57
  feel they're like teaching kids about loss and grief.
• 56:00
  This is just terrifying for no reason.
• 56:04
  This is a guy squealing as he gets run over by a steamroller.
• 56:08
  Yeah, oh God, those noises are awful.
• 56:14
  Again. As we love to talk about,
• 56:16
  Christopher Lloyd wasn't first on the list.
• 56:18
  Uber bad guy Tim Curry was considered at first, but he was
• 56:21
  deemed too scary for doom, of course.
• 56:24
  Of course. He was too scary and Lloyd
• 56:26
  wasn't doing what he did. What was Tim Gordy?
• 56:33
  Going in the other direction, their thoughts went to John
• 56:35
  Cleese, which basilful he surely didn't choose, poking them in
• 56:41
  the. Eye.
• 56:44
  Just hit them with a massive brunch.
• 56:50
  So then they went to Christopher Lee.
• 56:51
  He turned it down. He would have been great.
• 56:53
  He would have been great. Yeah, fantastic.
• 56:56
  And then also in the frame sting.
• 56:59
  Insane. Terrible.
• 57:04
  He's wearing that pants that he had on in June.
• 57:08
  That would have been terrifying for a whole different reason.
• 57:12
  Yeah, I've got a few more names. The one you mentioned there,
• 57:15
  Robin Williams, Vincent Price, John Lithgow, William Dufour,
• 57:18
  John Malkovich, Gene Hackman, Richard Gere.
• 57:21
  The one I like the most, who I think would have been absolutely
• 57:25
  fantastic, is Michael Keaton. Of course, Keaton.
• 57:29
  Brilliant. I mean, imagine Keaton, Hanks
• 57:31
  and Roger together at last in this.
• 57:33
  That would have been incredible. It's a different.
• 57:36
  Film. It would have been great.
• 57:38
  He would have been perfect for this sort of film.
• 57:40
  He would have been terrifying the kids and hilarious to
• 57:42
  adults. He would have been superb.
• 57:45
  Yeah, in my opinion, any bad guy should be John Lithgow in any
• 57:50
  film. We've talked about Christopher
• 57:54
  Lloyd and our Back to the Future podcast.
• 57:56
  That episode is available in our podcast archive, exclusive for
• 58:00
  our patrons. So if you want to dive into the
• 58:02
  archive, check out the ADRM Pedreon.
• 58:05
  Lloyd made his debut in Cuckoo's Nest, appeared in the slasher
• 58:08
  film Schizoid opposite Klaus Kinski in 1980.
• 58:12
  He appeared in other films after this, The Addams Family and
• 58:15
  Suburban Commando Absolute. Class fantastic.
• 58:18
  He's great in the dream team though.
• 58:19
  Yeah, yeah, with Keaton. With Keaton, yeah.
• 58:21
  There's no doubting that his most famous rules, though, are
• 58:24
  Doc Brown in Back to the Future and Judge Doom and Roger Rabbit.
• 58:27
  Definitely. Addams Family.
• 58:29
  So there is some down then just to be difficult.
• 58:35
  So a mixture of live action and animated characters combined and
• 58:38
  seamlessly to help bring Who friend Roger Rabbit to life
• 58:41
  amazingly well. Yeah.
• 58:50
  Back to the action, Marvin Acme has been murdered and Roger is
• 58:53
  in the frame who were picking it up his valley and goes back to
• 58:56
  his office. He has an encounter with baby
• 58:58
  Herman outside and finds Roger hiding in his bed.
• 59:01
  Before he has a chance to think the weasels are on the scene.
• 59:05
  So, John, what do you think about this scene?
• 59:08
  Oh it's great. I mean First off Valiant is
• 59:10
  interacting with Roger and then the weasels non-stop and Hoskins
• 59:14
  portrays it brilliantly. But the animation work is
• 59:16
  phenomenal. Unbelievable.
• 59:19
  I totally buy the Roger and Valiant are in the same room
• 59:22
  together. Absolutely brilliant completely
• 59:24
  and as a scene it's one of the best in there I think.
• 59:28
  Love it when Valiant pulls his bed down and you can see Roger's
• 59:31
  big feet under the covers. Absolutely fantastic.
• 59:35
  And obviously in terms of the plot it's one of the most
• 59:36
  important in the film. It's the point of Valiant and
• 59:38
  Roger start working together. Brilliant scene and Roger is
• 59:42
  hilarious. Non stopping it.
• 59:44
  Yeah, he's great. I like when he's saying that
• 59:46
  he's he's asked the fireman, the butcher, the Baker that didn't
• 59:49
  know where Valiant's office was, but the liquor store guy, he
• 59:51
  knew great. What about you, Westie?
• 59:58
  Yeah, there's so many things to like in this scene as now.
• 1:00:00
  I mean, it's one of them like stand out scenes from the film.
• 1:00:03
  It's the first time you get the interaction between, well, the
• 1:00:06
  real interaction, the physical interaction between them.
• 1:00:09
  And I love the bit when he's just gets really.
• 1:00:11
  Over the top emotional and he's like, I'm out of here.
• 1:00:14
  And then he's straight in the closet.
• 1:00:19
  Yeah, you kind of you kick yourself and not expect it and
• 1:00:23
  like still didn't expect it now. And you're like, that's the
• 1:00:25
  closet. And then when he's he's inside
• 1:00:27
  the detective suit and he's like got a square face and he's.
• 1:00:30
  Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Tony takes the piss out of
• 1:00:32
  him. There's so many things to like.
• 1:00:33
  Love it when the weasels turn up and I still think to myself now
• 1:00:36
  I forgot how because he hasn't got a king for the cuffs.
• 1:00:39
  It's like how how would you? How's he going to do this?
• 1:00:42
  I totally forgot that he puts them in that dish of water.
• 1:00:45
  The dishes at the series. It's not the dishes he's got.
• 1:00:47
  He's like he's it's the whites. My lingerie.
• 1:00:52
  My lingerie, Yeah, Brilliant. I think it's Grace, firstly,
• 1:00:56
  that Hoskins is in this scene with six of the characters who
• 1:01:00
  just weren't there during film, so he's got to act all of this
• 1:01:02
  out by himself. But like you said, John, the
• 1:01:04
  animation's amazing. The real stand out for me is
• 1:01:07
  when Rogers in the sink, yeah, he's coming up and he's spurting
• 1:01:11
  the water out and then back and valley and slapping them on the
• 1:01:14
  back. That just works.
• 1:01:16
  Perfectly it does. It's absolutely seamless and I
• 1:01:19
  have a huge soft spot for the weasels.
• 1:01:22
  They are great. One of the greatest cinematic
• 1:01:24
  criminal crews ever. One of the greatest collection
• 1:01:29
  of stereotypes as well though. Let's be.
• 1:01:34
  I like that about it though. I like that they've got the
• 1:01:36
  wrong individual identities. The leaders this like Hip Talk
• 1:01:39
  and Tough Guy and the rest of all got those identities.
• 1:01:42
  They're great. Their names aren't mentioned in
• 1:01:44
  the film, but they do have names.
• 1:01:46
  Do you know what they are? Go on then.
• 1:01:49
  I don't know all of them. I know some of them.
• 1:01:51
  So the dude in the green suit is called greasy, right?
• 1:01:55
  Or Greasy Weezy? Is the chainsmoker psycho?
• 1:01:59
  The guy in the straitjacket stupid?
• 1:02:02
  The one in the beanie hat? Didn't take long to think of
• 1:02:05
  that name, did it? And finally, smart ass, he's the
• 1:02:11
  the leader of the back. 7 dwarfs.
• 1:02:13
  That's names as well. They aren't.
• 1:02:14
  Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
• 1:02:16
  I love the opening of this scene as well.
• 1:02:18
  When you've got Herman there, it's like with genuine concern,
• 1:02:22
  like, you know, he didn't do this.
• 1:02:23
  And then the the woman that he's with, he's just a chauvinistic
• 1:02:26
  pig, isn't he? He's like, yeah, tuts.
• 1:02:29
  And he's just like, oh, he's horrible.
• 1:02:30
  But then when he drops a cigar and he's God's crying, it's
• 1:02:33
  fantastic. Wheeling.
• 1:02:35
  Wheeling, But it's that line I think was lifted straight out of
• 1:02:39
  the novel when he's I've got a 40 year old Lust and a
• 1:02:41
  three-year old Dinky. Outrageous.
• 1:02:46
  I'm not a. Big fan of that line to be
• 1:02:47
  honest. I don't know what to, I don't
• 1:02:49
  know how to make what to make of that.
• 1:02:50
  I really love baby Herman. He's hilarious, but when he says
• 1:02:54
  things like that, it's just weird.
• 1:02:57
  I think Baby Herman is a good character but I'm not sure how
• 1:03:00
  much I like him. I do like that he goes to Valley
• 1:03:02
  and to defend Roger. I like him when he calls him his
• 1:03:04
  friend as well, but he treats that poor girl who's pushing him
• 1:03:07
  around like absolute shit. Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  Calls him a dumb broad. And goes tells her to go and get
• 1:03:13
  a racing form. What I do like is I know that
• 1:03:16
  Richard Williams, who was the animation director, loved Baby
• 1:03:19
  Herman and he insists on personally animating every frame
• 1:03:22
  of the character. So it's all drawn and drawn by
• 1:03:24
  Richard Williams. Yeah, nice.
• 1:03:27
  But he is, I mean, super weird character, yeah.
• 1:03:30
  And the another thing I love about this scene as well, like
• 1:03:32
  with the combination of the live action and smart ass, is talking
• 1:03:35
  a Valiant just before he leaves and is that we're hanging out to
• 1:03:38
  dry and then he flicks the water.
• 1:03:40
  Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:42
  It's just how on earth did they do that and get that timing
• 1:03:45
  right? It's yeah, superb.
• 1:03:47
  I love the moment where the 1st come into the room when the sort
• 1:03:50
  of machine gun the lock and then the door swings open.
• 1:03:52
  We haven't seen them yet and then they also just snake in the
• 1:03:55
  room at the same time. It's a fantastic shot.
• 1:03:58
  The guy in the green suit, Greasy says.
• 1:04:00
  Looks like he gave us the slip. Our boss.
• 1:04:03
  Fantastic. After this, Roger hides out at
• 1:04:10
  Dolores Bar and Valian finds out that unless Acme's Will shows up
• 1:04:13
  by midnight, Cloverleaf will own Toontown.
• 1:04:16
  We're back at Dolores Bars. Roger can't resist the urge to
• 1:04:19
  entertain, which leads Doom and the Weasels straight to him.
• 1:04:22
  Westie this scene at the bar. It's really like a classic
• 1:04:27
  saloon type of situation, isn't it?
• 1:04:29
  We're just kind of walking in and you've got Angelo that
• 1:04:32
  you're that you that you were introduced to and you've got all
• 1:04:35
  these are they're kind of like real down and outs and you just
• 1:04:37
  think that, you know, but they all totally redeem themselves
• 1:04:40
  within the scene. I think this scene's really,
• 1:04:41
  really good. I love the way Roger's
• 1:04:43
  entertaining everybody, you know, and that just throughout
• 1:04:46
  that record and then the record sticks.
• 1:04:48
  So he's smashing the plate as it sticks.
• 1:04:50
  I think it's so many really good bits in this and I love that the
• 1:04:54
  fact that they're at that spy hole and Valine's like looking
• 1:04:57
  through and he's like, we've got away with this Roger.
• 1:04:59
  And he turns out he's just like he's going to blow any minute,
• 1:05:03
  any minute. Foreshadows back Maroon's office
• 1:05:05
  with the drink. And he's like, I think you're
• 1:05:07
  gonna want a drink. I don't.
• 1:05:08
  That's genius. I do.
• 1:05:09
  I don't, you know, this kind of like the old Switcher root, the
• 1:05:13
  old Switcher roots. Fantastic.
• 1:05:14
  So I think there's a lot of things you get rewarded from
• 1:05:16
  this scene for a lot of things. John.
• 1:05:19
  This is my favorite scene in the film.
• 1:05:21
  Wow. Wow, there it is.
• 1:05:22
  Great in terms of being a key moment in the plot and there is
• 1:05:25
  a bit of tension in there, but it's the Roger show for me.
• 1:05:28
  He's brilliant and for about 10 minutes nonstop, it's great when
• 1:05:32
  he's on the ball singing the Looney Tune song and smashing
• 1:05:34
  the plates over his head. Then they're shaving the haircut
• 1:05:37
  bit I love and what Valiant says.
• 1:05:39
  I don't know who's tunia you are Doom.
• 1:05:41
  And he turns around and Roger's having a complete meltdown.
• 1:05:45
  He has a. Twisting round.
• 1:05:47
  Himself. My favorite bit, though, maybe
• 1:05:50
  in the entire film, is that old Switcher the West he talked
• 1:05:53
  about, where Doom's holding Roger over the deep and valley
• 1:05:56
  and fools Roger and they're taking the drink.
• 1:05:58
  And Roger, like he doesn't want the drink.
• 1:06:00
  And Roger, like when I say I do, that means I do absolutely
• 1:06:05
  amazing. It's my favorite line in the
• 1:06:07
  film. I absolutely love it.
• 1:06:09
  He chucks it back as well, doesn't he?
• 1:06:10
  Yeah, oh, straight. Down.
• 1:06:12
  I think Doom's intro into this is awesome.
• 1:06:15
  He comes in and he says I'm looking for a murderer and holy
• 1:06:20
  shit. Full of fear, and his face is
• 1:06:23
  ashen, white, fantastic. And then Angelo fins that he
• 1:06:27
  knows where the rabbit is and he says, say hello, Harvey.
• 1:06:31
  Yeah, I love that call about the Harvey as well.
• 1:06:32
  Like, yeah. Yeah, it's great.
• 1:06:34
  And Doom looks at him like Stony faced, and then he shoots him
• 1:06:37
  this like, ridiculous maniacal smile and everybody stops
• 1:06:41
  laughing. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
• 1:06:44
  Oh, it's awful. I do love that it's inbuilt in
• 1:06:49
  Roger to entertain and Doom knows this, which is why he
• 1:06:53
  gives it the old shave and a haircut routine.
• 1:06:56
  Rogers freaking out in the back like you said and he can't take
• 1:06:59
  it anymore because he's got to complete the gag.
• 1:07:01
  He's a performer. He comes bursting out two bits
• 1:07:03
  that colder. Response.
• 1:07:05
  He's loving it as well. Despite the circumstances, he's
• 1:07:12
  fully performing and. He doesn't.
• 1:07:14
  He doesn't just come in. He like smashes through a wall.
• 1:07:22
  And then they get in the cab. Benny is just absolutely amazing
• 1:07:25
  Jive talking like a taxi driver does.
• 1:07:27
  How about this weather? And what about those Brooklyn
• 1:07:30
  Dodgers? Are they bombs?
• 1:07:32
  Of what? For me, Valiant's fully immersed
• 1:07:38
  in a cartoon world here in this car chase.
• 1:07:41
  It's so much fun. Yeah, there's some great
• 1:07:43
  dialogue in this when Benny turns around to Roger and he's
• 1:07:45
  like, hey, Roger, what do you call in the middle of a song
• 1:07:48
  just because the bridge is coming up?
• 1:07:49
  Yeah, yeah. That's so good.
• 1:07:50
  That's so. Good.
• 1:07:52
  Yeah, really, really good. And that your quote at the
• 1:07:55
  start, I'm going to ram him. Those are exactly the same words
• 1:07:58
  that Biff uses just before he slams into the manure truck in
• 1:08:00
  Back to the Future. Oh, lovely.
• 1:08:03
  So the mystery is beginning to reveal itself, but there are
• 1:08:05
  still a few missing pieces yet to find the.
• 1:08:13
  Crew. We want to take some time to
• 1:08:16
  look at the crew work on Hoof and Roger Rabbit as we normally
• 1:08:20
  do. We're going to look at the right
• 1:08:21
  and 1st Jeffrey Price and Pete S Seaman wrote Hoof and Roger
• 1:08:25
  Rabbit. Wesley, what do you think of the
• 1:08:28
  writing on the film? I think both kind of touched on
• 1:08:31
  it earlier on when we're talking about the plot and whether
• 1:08:33
  that's too confusing, but I think there's some really,
• 1:08:35
  really clever writing here. I think it's a really
• 1:08:38
  complicated plot, and on top of that, the winter weaved some
• 1:08:42
  incredible dialogue, some incredible comedy moments.
• 1:08:45
  Oh yeah. I think it's a really strong
• 1:08:46
  screenplay that I think from the undertaking of this project, I
• 1:08:50
  think you have to have something that you're reading and go,
• 1:08:53
  yeah, this is going to work. And I think just on the page
• 1:08:55
  this would sound like it would work.
• 1:08:57
  I think you would be laugh out loud funny some of the the
• 1:08:59
  dialogue and some of the lines and again the plot is fairly
• 1:09:04
  complicated but I think they do a good job of layering it up so
• 1:09:07
  you it does need multiple viewings.
• 1:09:10
  It does. Yeah, it.
• 1:09:10
  Needs that level of attention and I think they weren't scared
• 1:09:13
  to shy away from that and make it overly simplistic.
• 1:09:15
  There's a million ways this could go.
• 1:09:17
  When you've got all of the cartoon characters ever made in
• 1:09:21
  tune, you know, you could take this anywhere.
• 1:09:24
  But where they did take it I think is really, really good.
• 1:09:26
  And where they based it is really, really good and very,
• 1:09:29
  very original. I think it's one of the most
• 1:09:30
  original pieces of writing in in Hollywood, really.
• 1:09:35
  Wow. Hi, Perez, John.
• 1:09:37
  Yeah, I think the writing is really, really good, has a plot
• 1:09:40
  which makes sense, the unravelling murder mystery.
• 1:09:42
  The main characters, as we've mentioned, are all excellent,
• 1:09:45
  all of distinct personalities and the motivations are always
• 1:09:48
  really clear. Even the secondary characters
• 1:09:50
  are great, like the weasels we've talked about.
• 1:09:52
  There's Lords, Zingers, one liners and visual comedy in
• 1:09:56
  there. I think the concept as a whole
• 1:09:57
  is absolutely brilliant. This idea of a 1940s style noir
• 1:10:01
  mystery as the main plot to reflect the time period.
• 1:10:04
  I absolutely love it. So I think on a whole, yeah, it
• 1:10:06
  is a unique piece from the writing point of view I think.
• 1:10:09
  Fantastic job. It's flawless for me.
• 1:10:11
  It's got to juggle quite a few genres and I think it does that
• 1:10:13
  really, really well. The gags are thick and fast, but
• 1:10:16
  it allows for this fantastic arc of Valiant and give so much meat
• 1:10:20
  on the bones to that character. And it's got some really deeply
• 1:10:23
  affecting emotional beats as well.
• 1:10:25
  It's super smart, like whip smart dialogue, and that's one
• 1:10:29
  of the main reasons that it's endured.
• 1:10:31
  It's multi layered to Kate roll ages.
• 1:10:34
  Kids come for the animation and the funny action and all that
• 1:10:37
  kind of stuff. But then adults, that noir.
• 1:10:40
  Plus I'm a fan of noir anyway and that that's just perfect.
• 1:10:44
  I love that, absolutely love that.
• 1:10:45
  Loads of layers. And everything feels of the time
• 1:10:48
  as well. Like none of them gags feel like
• 1:10:50
  an 89 gag. Like OK that makes sense with
• 1:10:52
  that would sound an old school or cliched.
• 1:10:55
  Yeah, I think so much of it's just like timeless guys.
• 1:10:58
  You can watch it in 50 years time and it'll still be funny.
• 1:11:00
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. There were quite a few changes
• 1:11:04
  to the screenplay from the first draft to the final draft.
• 1:11:06
  During the writing process. Things change around characters
• 1:11:09
  came in characters. Motivations changed as well.
• 1:11:12
  At certain points in the various drafts.
• 1:11:14
  Jessica was pinned as the villa, right?
• 1:11:17
  And then baby Herman was pinned as the villa.
• 1:11:21
  Then Doom had this big reveal that he was the hunter who
• 1:11:23
  killed Bambi's mother, which would have made him even more
• 1:11:27
  terrifying. That is too far.
• 1:11:30
  Couldn't handle that. I couldn't handle that.
• 1:11:32
  Bringing the rifle out at the end.
• 1:11:34
  Yeah, horrible. Oh, don't.
• 1:11:36
  My Maple. Yeah, and even Roger died in one
• 1:11:41
  of the screenplay drafts. You can't kill off Roger.
• 1:11:44
  Didn't he died the book? Yeah, I think some of them
• 1:11:47
  changes, they are coming from the actual book.
• 1:11:49
  It was based on who censored Roger Rabbit.
• 1:11:52
  The filmmaker has moved away from it a lot.
• 1:11:54
  I mean, sometimes when we talk about changes movies have made
• 1:11:56
  from books, they often made them worse.
• 1:11:58
  But I don't think that's the case yet.
• 1:12:00
  Do you want to hear some of the differences between the movie
• 1:12:02
  and the book? Go for it.
• 1:12:05
  So in the book, the tunes aren't cartoon characters, but comic
• 1:12:08
  strip characters. So from newspapers and things
• 1:12:11
  like that, rather than being TV and movie stars.
• 1:12:13
  I mean, that's not as good. No, no, there's a one point.
• 1:12:18
  If you got the antique app. In the film, Roger's about 3
• 1:12:27
  feet tall. Maybe in the book he's 6 feet
• 1:12:30
  tall. Terrifying, say.
• 1:12:33
  Harvey in it, but in real. Yeah.
• 1:12:36
  Also in the book, Roger enjoys a Sup now and again, so he's a
• 1:12:40
  drinker. OK.
• 1:12:41
  You know what the booze is called that he drinks.
• 1:12:44
  No. Tune Shine.
• 1:12:47
  Brilliant. They should have kept that, that
• 1:12:48
  is. Brilliant.
• 1:12:49
  To be fair, yeah. Genius.
• 1:12:50
  In the book, Jessica hates Roger and leaves him for his boss.
• 1:12:53
  I don't like that. I love Jessica's, totally in
• 1:12:56
  love with Roger. Yeah, I do, yeah.
• 1:12:58
  And also like you mentioned there, Luke Roger dies halfway
• 1:13:00
  through the book. He gets shot to death.
• 1:13:02
  Nobody wants to say that. No, that's outrageous.
• 1:13:06
  Isn't it ridiculous? Gary Wolfie wrote the books, has
• 1:13:09
  written sequels in novel form to Who Framed Roger Roberts, and he
• 1:13:12
  preferred the movie version so much that he completely
• 1:13:15
  disregarded his original novel. So his second book starts with
• 1:13:18
  Jessica Robert waking up from a bad dream that was the first
• 1:13:21
  book and then he writes it as a sequel to the film.
• 1:13:24
  Cop out. Yeah, massive cop out if
• 1:13:27
  somebody's totally bored in and that book and loves it.
• 1:13:29
  What the fuck? Also, I think in the book
• 1:13:34
  Jessica was a former porn star. Too much.
• 1:13:38
  Yeah. I mean, obviously that's not
• 1:13:40
  going to make it. Definitely.
• 1:13:42
  That sounds great. I think I'm going to check this.
• 1:13:45
  The title of the film is a question Who Framed Roger
• 1:13:48
  Rabbit? But there isn't a question mark
• 1:13:49
  in the title of the film. Do you know why?
• 1:13:51
  I do. What's to do with the studio,
• 1:13:52
  isn't it? Yeah, it's apparently like a
• 1:13:55
  kiss of death in Hollywood to put a question mark in a film
• 1:13:58
  title. If you do that, then the film
• 1:14:00
  going to bomb, right? This film was never going to
• 1:14:02
  bomb. Not your eyes.
• 1:14:06
  The writers, Price and Seaman were huge fans of Roman
• 1:14:09
  Polanski's Chinatown. I mean, it's not surprising, is
• 1:14:12
  it? Like you said West of you, it
• 1:14:13
  wears Chinatown on its sleeve. Considering the underhand shady
• 1:14:17
  dealings of the cloverleaf subpot.
• 1:14:20
  They got the idea of Doom's big freeway dreams from one of the
• 1:14:23
  unused drafts to the sequel of Chinatown.
• 1:14:26
  Right, OK. Yeah, amazing.
• 1:14:28
  I know as well that that whole subplot is actually based in
• 1:14:31
  real life facts as well. So Doom has this grand plan to
• 1:14:34
  get rid of the red car trolleys. And in the US in the 1940s,
• 1:14:38
  corporations got together to buy our public transport companies
• 1:14:41
  to increase demand for cars, right.
• 1:14:44
  So that's based on that to give it a bit of, I suppose in terms
• 1:14:48
  of the film, I do like it is a plot thread, adds a nice twist
• 1:14:50
  and it is very much Chinatown as well, I think and how it feels
• 1:14:53
  very much. Yeah, very much.
• 1:14:54
  Also, that version of the Chinatown sequel was going to be
• 1:14:59
  called Cloverleaf. Oh, really?
• 1:15:01
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:15:02
  Lovely. So was that a sequel to the Two
• 1:15:04
  GX or was that a draft for that film?
• 1:15:06
  It was a draft for the two GX. Right.
• 1:15:08
  OK, nice. I think, and I looked at the
• 1:15:10
  writers. I was thinking, well, obviously
• 1:15:12
  these guys have got something as a partnership.
• 1:15:15
  They must have done something else.
• 1:15:16
  And I don't think anything else they've done really stands up to
• 1:15:19
  this film at all. I mean they did Doc Hollywood
• 1:15:22
  with J Fox. J Fox.
• 1:15:24
  Which is good, but I mean it's just because J Fox is in it,
• 1:15:26
  let's be honest. And then they did one of the the
• 1:15:29
  most famous cinematic bombs of all time in Wild Wild West as a
• 1:15:34
  script. Like oh Jesus that was so
• 1:15:36
  confused. Embarrassing.
• 1:15:38
  They kind of come round and, well, yeah, really embarrassing.
• 1:15:41
  And then they came round, redeemed themselves with the
• 1:15:43
  Grinch. You stole Christmas.
• 1:15:44
  All right. Right, OK.
• 1:15:46
  I don't know if they wrote most of that because Jim Carrey rift,
• 1:15:48
  I would say 90%, of course they did.
• 1:15:50
  So based on a Doctor Seuss novel, they can't really go
• 1:15:53
  wrong. So there's nothing holds up to
• 1:15:55
  the level of writing here. I think this was them find it
• 1:15:59
  something that we're incredibly comfortable with adapting and a
• 1:16:02
  really original idea, and I don't think anyone else could
• 1:16:04
  have done it apart from these guys.
• 1:16:05
  Not because they're just an unprecedented talent, but I
• 1:16:08
  think that they were just the right people to nail this at the
• 1:16:10
  right time. They should have just done this
• 1:16:13
  and quit. One and done.
• 1:16:17
  Got Wilder head. They should do a sequel of Wild
• 1:16:20
  Wild West Wild West Two but the wake up from a Nightmare which
• 1:16:23
  is the first one. I'll be up on that, yeah.
• 1:16:29
  Finally, on our crew list is Richard Williams, head animator
• 1:16:32
  on the project and the one who gets the most praise from fans.
• 1:16:36
  John, the floor is yours. What do you think of Williams's
• 1:16:39
  work? For all the great work done by a
• 1:16:41
  lot of people in Roger Robert, Richard Williams and his team is
• 1:16:45
  the star of the show by a mile. For me, the whole film lives or
• 1:16:49
  dies by how well the live action animation blend works and they
• 1:16:52
  get it working absolutely brilliantly and order from the
• 1:16:55
  start before they shot anything. Officially, Williams set out
• 1:16:58
  three rules that had to be followed in order for the film
• 1:17:00
  to work at the level he wanted the two.
• 1:17:03
  So first, he said when shooting a scene, the camera had to move
• 1:17:06
  as much as possible. So the tunes don't like, they
• 1:17:08
  just paste it onto a background. Yeah.
• 1:17:11
  Secondly, he said he wanted shadows and lighting to be
• 1:17:13
  incorporated into the illustrations to a level that
• 1:17:15
  had never been done before. And third, he wanted the tunes
• 1:17:18
  to interact with real world objects as much as possible.
• 1:17:21
  So like the scene in Valiant where he picks up Roger by the
• 1:17:23
  ears, or when smart ass like Wesley mentioned splashes the
• 1:17:26
  water, or when the Penguin whales are carrying real life
• 1:17:29
  trays. There's hundreds of details in
• 1:17:31
  there like that. And those were history rules.
• 1:17:33
  Amazing. When you said smart ass like
• 1:17:35
  Wesley, there I was like, what? Oh yeah, that's smart.
• 1:17:41
  Ass. So what do you think, Westie?
• 1:17:44
  Oh, smart ass. Well.
• 1:17:45
  What can you say about it? It is John's absolutely right.
• 1:17:47
  It's hinged on this. You know, if this guy folks up,
• 1:17:50
  there's not a film, you know, if he doesn't concentrate on it to
• 1:17:53
  the level that he needs to concentrate on it, then it's
• 1:17:56
  just not going to perform at all.
• 1:17:58
  And if you see through any of this, any scene, any shot, if
• 1:18:01
  any shot becomes obvious, it's ruined the whole thing.
• 1:18:04
  And I think the level of pressure and the level of
• 1:18:09
  determination is probably four or five times that of Zemeckis.
• 1:18:13
  It has to be to direct and deliver this level of animation.
• 1:18:17
  Just what he delivered in sense of scale is unparalleled really.
• 1:18:21
  And The thing is, is that he is up there on IMDb as Co director
• 1:18:26
  with Zemeckis. But if you said anyone who's
• 1:18:27
  Richard Williams, they'll just be like, I don't know.
• 1:18:30
  And that's a real fucking tragedy.
• 1:18:31
  Especially what he's done here. It's a real achievement.
• 1:18:34
  It is a huge achievement, this work on this film.
• 1:18:36
  It's absolutely mesmerizing and I think it's only something that
• 1:18:40
  you're really able to appreciate as an adult.
• 1:18:42
  I think as a kid and didn't really think twice about it.
• 1:18:45
  Of course, one of the key things that I think makes the animation
• 1:18:48
  as effective as it is, is that there's a lot made about it, but
• 1:18:52
  the eye lines match between the real characters and the tunes.
• 1:18:55
  You can notice it in all scenes if you're looking for it, and
• 1:18:58
  the reason that you're not looking for it is because you
• 1:19:00
  don't notice it. You're totally immersed in the
• 1:19:02
  film. You totally buy it.
• 1:19:03
  Exactly. Yeah, that the real people and
• 1:19:05
  the tunes coexist talking about. You mentioned earlier on, John,
• 1:19:09
  the animation in Mary Poppins. I know it was 24 years
• 1:19:12
  beforehand, but the principles kind of similar.
• 1:19:15
  Those Penguins look great, but they're separated from the live
• 1:19:18
  action. And you can tell with this, I'm
• 1:19:21
  not even questioning that for a second.
• 1:19:23
  It's incredibly immersive. We mentioned the different
• 1:19:26
  characters, the different new cartoon characters that are
• 1:19:28
  introduced into the film. Do you have a favorite Westie?
• 1:19:32
  I love the bullets, the bullets that go in the gun, the valley
• 1:19:35
  and opens up. I love them.
• 1:19:37
  Love them. Got that gun from Yosemite Sam.
• 1:19:39
  Hasn't he had said like engraved in there for getting him out of
• 1:19:41
  a particularly sticky incident? Nice.
• 1:19:45
  But I love that that reference of Cowboys and Indians, and I
• 1:19:49
  think my favorite of all of them is the one that obviously
• 1:19:51
  doesn't fuck up because you're the ones that like, where did he
• 1:19:54
  go? Yeah.
• 1:19:55
  He went that way. It's like Dum Dum, but when he
• 1:19:59
  fires that Indian bullet, he pulls out that massive tomahawk
• 1:20:02
  and he just smashes the bottle. It's just, it's such a wonderful
• 1:20:06
  moment. I piss myself every single time
• 1:20:08
  I say it like it's fantastic. So over the top.
• 1:20:11
  It's just really funny. I love all the new tunes that
• 1:20:14
  the brought in. Like John said before, they all
• 1:20:16
  stand up. Even bullets fired out of the
• 1:20:18
  gun and they're still funny. John.
• 1:20:22
  You only seem for a few seconds, but I'm going for in the in
• 1:20:25
  campaign club where we see the Octopus bartender.
• 1:20:28
  All right, He's carrying eight drinks at once.
• 1:20:31
  Obviously that always makes me smile, but I like how they did
• 1:20:34
  that as well. So the Octopus is obviously a
• 1:20:36
  tune and the apron, she's carrying all real life glasses.
• 1:20:39
  So when the film that there was no octopus obviously, and they
• 1:20:42
  had eight puppeteers on the set who were all operating and
• 1:20:44
  moving the glasses in the way they needed to.
• 1:20:46
  And then the octopus was destroying afterwards.
• 1:20:48
  He's on the screen for about 5 seconds.
• 1:20:50
  But that just shows the lengths that they went to to make it all
• 1:20:52
  as real feeling as possible. Just incredible lengths.
• 1:20:56
  It is. I'm a fan of the Mexican weasel
• 1:21:00
  with the green suit. Name is Greasy.
• 1:21:02
  Fantastic. He's my favorite.
• 1:21:04
  One of the best cartoon characters ever for me.
• 1:21:05
  This guy, I love him. Absolutely.
• 1:21:10
  Seconds of screens. He's.
• 1:21:14
  So good when Doom murders the Toon shoe that we've talked
• 1:21:18
  about, you can hear him off camera.
• 1:21:20
  Just seeing that's one dead shoe.
• 1:21:22
  Our boss loving it near the end where Jessica says that she's
• 1:21:33
  got the will and he says I'll handle this one and he gets his
• 1:21:37
  hand caught in this massive bear trap and booby trap.
• 1:21:41
  Brilliant. So 326 anime has worked on the
• 1:21:45
  film, and I know that absolutely painstaking work when they do it
• 1:21:49
  from them. The voice is pretty fascinating
• 1:21:51
  I think, if you've not heard it. Yeah, go for it.
• 1:21:54
  So the shot the film in it's entirety, with the actors acting
• 1:21:57
  against blue screen and props. As we mentioned then, every
• 1:22:00
  single frame of footage that included the tune or animation
• 1:22:03
  was printed as a still photograph.
• 1:22:06
  An animator then put tracing paper over the top of the
• 1:22:08
  photograph and drew the illustration for that frame onto
• 1:22:10
  the tracing paper as an outline in the right place.
• 1:22:13
  The outline was then colored to make the final illustration, and
• 1:22:16
  that final illustration was then composited back onto the
• 1:22:19
  original frame with an optical printer.
• 1:22:21
  I mean by today standard with CGI and digital effect.
• 1:22:23
  It's all pretty rudimentary stuff, but it just looks so
• 1:22:27
  great. So every single frame has an
• 1:22:29
  animation drawn on it. It's just mind blowing.
• 1:22:32
  The amount of work that must have taken is astonishing.
• 1:22:35
  It's unbelievable, isn't it? Richard Williams said that
• 1:22:38
  easily over 1,000,000 illustrations were done for the
• 1:22:41
  film. Jesus Christ.
• 1:22:43
  Because when you say A-frame, it's literally A-frame.
• 1:22:46
  If there's any movement on that frame at all, then it's a new
• 1:22:50
  draw. A brand new drawn.
• 1:22:52
  Every time, and this is assuming as well that they get it right
• 1:22:54
  first time. There'll definitely be moments
• 1:22:56
  where they do the animation and think that's not right, I'll
• 1:22:58
  have to do it again and stuff like that.
• 1:22:59
  It's just ridiculous amounts of work, painstaking.
• 1:23:03
  I think the actual animation schedule was twice as long as
• 1:23:06
  the shooting schedule. In the last 14 months, something
• 1:23:09
  like that. Blame me. 14 months drawn
• 1:23:11
  cartoons. Good nightmare.
• 1:23:15
  Yeah, you're talking like 24 frames a second, which is what
• 1:23:18
  this would have been shot at. So there's 24 drones every
• 1:23:20
  second. Yeah.
• 1:23:22
  So that's. Which is insane.
• 1:23:26
  So based on that, Westie Richard Williams explains the level of
• 1:23:30
  work required perfectly. In this quote.
• 1:23:32
  He said if there were five weasels in a shot, each weasel
• 1:23:35
  had to have a rim light and three sets of black mats given
• 1:23:38
  tones. This was so that when ILM threw
• 1:23:41
  the cells out of focus, it would curve.
• 1:23:42
  Given a three-dimensional look, each of the five extra bits for
• 1:23:46
  each weasel would have to be separately painted.
• 1:23:49
  So that's 25 pieces of artwork per frame, 24 frames per second,
• 1:23:52
  600 drones per second. Unbelievable stuff.
• 1:23:55
  Jesus. Christ, it's not just about the
• 1:23:57
  animation. So see if Rogers in a scene and
• 1:23:59
  he's arms moving, you've got obviously anime is all moving,
• 1:24:01
  both the cameras moving at the same time.
• 1:24:03
  You've got to reflect the camera movement as well.
• 1:24:05
  The camera gets closer, the camera getting further away.
• 1:24:07
  It's just incredible. It's the perspective of the
• 1:24:09
  whole thing. It's all going to change every
• 1:24:11
  single time. So this is 320 odds animators
• 1:24:16
  working for 14 months and it was a case of all work and no play
• 1:24:19
  for some of the animators. As in the scene where Eddie and
• 1:24:23
  Jessica are thrown from Benny the cab near the end, there were
• 1:24:27
  a few frames where it's obvious that Jessica isn't wearing any
• 1:24:31
  underwear. The animator has got a little
• 1:24:32
  bit creative. What a bunch of pervores.
• 1:24:36
  So what can you see? It was just flesh colored,
• 1:24:37
  wasn't it? I'm not going to spell it out
• 1:24:39
  for you, John. But it's in the beige lecture.
• 1:24:46
  They replace the frames with white just white pants so it
• 1:24:49
  looks like she was wearing something underneath.
• 1:24:51
  The rule among animators generally was that when blended
• 1:24:54
  live action with animation was to keep the camera still.
• 1:24:58
  Any movement generally makes it look obvious that there are two
• 1:25:00
  worlds. Here, the animation looks as if
• 1:25:02
  it's on a different plane, almost in the forefront of the
• 1:25:05
  field of view. Williams said animators did this
• 1:25:08
  because they were lazy. It's twice as much work to keep
• 1:25:11
  the camera moving and fitting in the animation seamlessly into
• 1:25:14
  the frame. But the results, I mean in this
• 1:25:16
  film alone, speak for themselves how effective that process is.
• 1:25:18
  Yeah, well that's the first of those 3 rules I was talking
• 1:25:20
  about those 3 rules I mentioned earlier.
• 1:25:22
  The opposite was actually the rules that the animators used to
• 1:25:25
  follow and he basically just flipped them all around.
• 1:25:27
  So incredible. It would be the camera can't
• 1:25:29
  move. He said the camera has to move.
• 1:25:31
  The can't interact with real world objects.
• 1:25:33
  He said the have to interact with real world objects just
• 1:25:36
  completely turns the interference head essentially by
• 1:25:37
  doing. That completely and makes the
• 1:25:39
  film what it is and why we're talking about it.
• 1:25:42
  The amount of detail was and is called, as you mentioned, John
• 1:25:45
  bumping the lamp and it's exemplified by the scene at
• 1:25:48
  Dolores's bar when Valiant and Roger are in handcuffs.
• 1:25:52
  Eddie hits his head off the hanging lamp a couple of times,
• 1:25:55
  which creates this light and shade as the light swings back
• 1:25:58
  and forth. Now in live action, that's fine,
• 1:26:00
  obviously that gets picked up by the camera, but the issue with
• 1:26:03
  animation, the lightness and the shade needs to be captured and
• 1:26:05
  blended perfectly with the live action.
• 1:26:07
  So every single frame has to be drawn a different way to
• 1:26:10
  accommodate that swing and light.
• 1:26:12
  When you consider that that lamps constantly swinging loads
• 1:26:16
  of frames like we've talked about, it doesn't need to be in
• 1:26:18
  that scene. Take it out and nobody would bat
• 1:26:21
  an eyelid. But the animators wanted to make
• 1:26:23
  it as realistic as possible to go above and beyond what is
• 1:26:26
  expected. So in the industry, the term
• 1:26:28
  bump the land means to go above and beyond what's expected.
• 1:26:31
  So kind of similar to what we do on this podcast, Fellas, We're
• 1:26:34
  bumping the land every two weeks, right?
• 1:26:37
  That's one term for it, yeah. We've got a question from one of
• 1:26:44
  our patrons, Adam Yates. That's the benefit.
• 1:26:47
  You follow us on Patreon and then you get the chance to be
• 1:26:50
  part of the show and ask us a question, obviously within
• 1:26:52
  reason. Now, Adam says that he's not a
• 1:26:55
  fan of the movie, but he does appreciate that it broke ground
• 1:26:58
  in the world of animation and live action animation.
• 1:27:01
  And he asks us which film do you think after this one did the
• 1:27:04
  most for the genre of the animated movie?
• 1:27:06
  It's hard to go anywhere else apart from the likes of Toy
• 1:27:10
  Story and Pixar. It's just the obvious choice,
• 1:27:12
  isn't it? But it's to me, it's a different
• 1:27:14
  kettle of fish like Pixar is the evolution of this technique.
• 1:27:19
  I guess it's about creating an animated world real, whereas
• 1:27:22
  this has a real world that needs to incorporate an animated
• 1:27:25
  element. So I think this is again,
• 1:27:27
  completely different. So I don't know.
• 1:27:29
  I haven't seen anything else like this since that's made us
• 1:27:33
  believe it as much as this does. So to be honest, I think it kind
• 1:27:37
  of set the bar so high and there was so much work and so much
• 1:27:40
  energy put into this that they just had to go right.
• 1:27:42
  Well, how can we do something that's equally as impressive but
• 1:27:45
  less labour intensive? So let's make I guess.
• 1:27:49
  I think Japanese animated, there's a special mention.
• 1:27:51
  I mean stuff like Kira, which came out the same year as Roger
• 1:27:54
  Rabbit. The animations, they are
• 1:27:56
  incredible. That's full animations, but they
• 1:27:58
  raised the ball massively as well.
• 1:27:59
  I think they had something like three times as many animation
• 1:28:03
  frames in a short as what was I've been done before.
• 1:28:05
  They created about 50 new colours specifically for the
• 1:28:08
  film so that raise the bar. And then Studio Ghibli with
• 1:28:11
  stuff like Spirited Away, which is maybe the best animated film
• 1:28:14
  I've ever seen. Absolutely incredible.
• 1:28:16
  But I agree with Westie in terms of Hollywood.
• 1:28:19
  My absolute favorite and the most important of the last 30
• 1:28:22
  years is surely Toy Story. Massive milestone and animation.
• 1:28:26
  It was the first film to be completely animated on a
• 1:28:29
  computer. What's maybe most impressive
• 1:28:32
  about it though, I think, is that when you read reviews from
• 1:28:34
  the time when Toy Story came out, despite all that
• 1:28:37
  groundbreaking stuff and the technical innovations that's
• 1:28:40
  mentioned in Afoot, no, really, the glowing reviews tend to
• 1:28:43
  focus on the storytelling and the characters of like Woody and
• 1:28:45
  Buzz. Pixar, for me, are the best
• 1:28:48
  storytellers of the last 30 years.
• 1:28:49
  I think The Fantastic and Toy Story, for its importance, I
• 1:28:52
  think is their best and Hollywood's most influential
• 1:28:55
  animation of at least the last 50 years.
• 1:28:58
  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I totally agree.
• 1:28:59
  It's Toy Story all the way. Like the flag wave of a Pixar
• 1:29:04
  film that added another dimension to Disney animation
• 1:29:07
  was Groundbreak. And then Pixar knocking it out
• 1:29:09
  of the park with every release as well.
• 1:29:11
  Incredible. Consistency is incredible,
• 1:29:13
  phenomenal, phenomenal. So the screenplay is excellent,
• 1:29:17
  but we can't underestimate the painstake and animation skills
• 1:29:20
  of Richard Williams and his crew.
• 1:29:22
  Time absolutely well spent. Fantastic.
• 1:29:25
  Definitely. Nearing the end of the film,
• 1:29:34
  Valiant makes the connection to RK Maroon and Acme's death.
• 1:29:38
  Maroon gets bumped off with Jessica running away from the
• 1:29:40
  scene of the crime, Valiant in hot pursuit and follows Jessica
• 1:29:44
  into the shady underworld that is Toontown.
• 1:29:47
  So, John Eddie in Toontown, what do you think?
• 1:29:51
  This is where they go all in, isn't it?
• 1:29:53
  Yeah, all animations and valiants, the only real life
• 1:29:56
  thing on the screen for a good 1015 minutes.
• 1:29:59
  And we stay there in Toontown. Just the right amount of time I
• 1:30:02
  think. Yeah, I think so, yeah.
• 1:30:04
  Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse talking to each other.
• 1:30:06
  That's pretty great. Brilliant.
• 1:30:07
  Tweety Pie and Ruby showing up as well.
• 1:30:09
  I love that. Yeah.
• 1:30:11
  And Lena Hyena obviously is. She's a very memorable.
• 1:30:15
  Yeah, I like all those bits when Valian goes from 1 crazy
• 1:30:18
  situation to another for a few minutes.
• 1:30:20
  But for me, the storytelling wheels start to fall off a
• 1:30:23
  little bit here. OK After Valian gets away from
• 1:30:26
  Lena, when she runs into the wall, which is brilliant.
• 1:30:29
  Yeah, He just happens to hear. I know he's around the corner,
• 1:30:32
  which just happens to be exactly what you're looking for.
• 1:30:34
  And I know it probably shouldn't, but that bit really
• 1:30:37
  bothers me, to be honest. It always takes me out of the
• 1:30:39
  film, so it is great to visit Toon Town and we absolutely had
• 1:30:43
  to at some point, absolutely, obviously.
• 1:30:46
  But I think it's the right choice to come back to the real
• 1:30:48
  world for the climax. Yeah, I agree feel as though
• 1:30:51
  Toon terms this like massive daunting place and Eddie gets
• 1:30:55
  the gun out with the cartoon characters and he's like
• 1:30:59
  psyching himself up and he goes to take a drink and that's when
• 1:31:01
  his his character acts almost complete and he's psyching
• 1:31:06
  himself up to go in. And then as soon as we end, the
• 1:31:08
  two town were in this song and dance act.
• 1:31:11
  Smile down your smile. This massive production.
• 1:31:14
  Yeah. But it's like all Technicolor
• 1:31:18
  and it's like drug hazy. It's almost nightmarish.
• 1:31:20
  It's crazy that song smiled down your smile.
• 1:31:23
  That was the animators singing that, so they got their little
• 1:31:25
  moment in the limelight as well. Nice, lovely.
• 1:31:28
  I love the moment where he's driving through the tunnel and
• 1:31:30
  he comes up with the curtains. The entrance in the Toontown.
• 1:31:32
  It has the open. It does the Loony Tunes bound.
• 1:31:35
  Yeah, yeah. That's.
• 1:31:36
  Great, brilliant. That tunnel that he drives
• 1:31:38
  through as well is from the same one from Back to the Future 2
• 1:31:40
  where there's the hover board after the sports Almanac.
• 1:31:44
  Oh fantastic, great scene now. So yeah, there's a Mac just
• 1:31:47
  loves that location. Of course he does.
• 1:31:50
  Back to the future forever. Yeah, I've been there before.
• 1:31:52
  Let's just use that again. But yeah, I'm exactly the same
• 1:31:55
  as you guys. It's a bit like a real sugar
• 1:31:57
  headache that you've just had too much and it's like, I need
• 1:32:01
  to get the fuck out of here. But it is fantastic.
• 1:32:04
  But to me, it seems a very unpredictable place, very fast,
• 1:32:07
  very loud, very much as you would expect it to be.
• 1:32:10
  And it hits every expectation. You just think, well, that's
• 1:32:13
  exactly what you would expect to in town to be from every single
• 1:32:16
  element of it. And like you say, it goes from
• 1:32:17
  this really happy, smiley Wizard of Oz kind of location to then a
• 1:32:21
  car crash and then you're in the middle of downtown and it's
• 1:32:24
  really unpredictable. But that bit works for me.
• 1:32:26
  I mean, I'm not going to get into Lena Hyena, but I love
• 1:32:29
  Droopy in this. I love Droopy in the lift.
• 1:32:31
  And I look like how fast it goes up and how fast it goes down.
• 1:32:34
  And it's just, he's like, your floor is there.
• 1:32:37
  It's just. Have a nice day, Sir.
• 1:32:42
  And his face, he's great. And that bit that John was
• 1:32:47
  touched on there, that kind of pulls you out of it.
• 1:32:50
  I totally believe that because I find Toontown to be so
• 1:32:54
  unpredictable that if you just turn the corner, turn your back
• 1:32:57
  on it, it can rearrange itself. It's almost like Inception where
• 1:33:01
  it's like, you know, he can pick up the road and she can run into
• 1:33:04
  the wall and he can like manipulate any part of anything.
• 1:33:07
  And it all feels like really unpredictable.
• 1:33:09
  So when you're there, it's almost impossible to be a
• 1:33:11
  private investigator or a detective in Toontown because
• 1:33:14
  it'll own you. It'll just basically manipulate
• 1:33:17
  you to do what it wants to do because it's tunes and they
• 1:33:20
  can't be trusted. So I totally get that element.
• 1:33:22
  And but you're absolutely right. We're in there just enough time.
• 1:33:25
  Any any longer and I would I would think one though I'm
• 1:33:28
  looking at to just be a little bit too hard to keep up with.
• 1:33:31
  It's an absolute death trap tune tone for a human.
• 1:33:33
  Being it's a nightmare, Tweety Pie totally stitches Eddie up.
• 1:33:38
  Really. No more pitties.
• 1:33:43
  And saw the bugs and Mickey Mouse as well to give them the
• 1:33:46
  spare. And it's a spare tire.
• 1:33:48
  And yeah, Boogs goes, ain't I a stinker?
• 1:33:53
  Couple of Dicks. And you mentioned Lena Hyena as
• 1:33:59
  well. That reveal is brilliant.
• 1:34:01
  He thinks he's got Jessica and it's her silhouette, her outline
• 1:34:05
  and everything. And then it turns out to be this
• 1:34:07
  rampant gargoyle. Brilliant.
• 1:34:10
  It really unsettles me. Again, it's another one of their
• 1:34:13
  moments where I'm just, oh, and then she keeps coming after him
• 1:34:16
  and when she scuttles up the street, I just feel sick.
• 1:34:22
  I'm like, I can't get out of there quick enough.
• 1:34:24
  I'm like, Eddie, just get out of there.
• 1:34:25
  Just forget about the whole case and get the fuck out of there.
• 1:34:31
  She's just been waiting in that room for how long?
• 1:34:33
  Just for a man to come in? Yoohoo, lover boy.
• 1:34:39
  There's this truly bizarre deleted scene which happens
• 1:34:43
  earlier on in the action, but it ends in Toontown where Doom
• 1:34:46
  catches Valley and snooping around the Ink and Pain Club,
• 1:34:49
  and he and his goon send him to Toontown.
• 1:34:52
  They send him to Toontown and they put an animated pig head on
• 1:34:56
  top of his own head. So he's screaming with this pig
• 1:35:00
  head on his own head. It's petrifying.
• 1:35:02
  Oh, that sounds. Horrible.
• 1:35:04
  And then there's a scene straight after it where he
• 1:35:05
  remedies it by being in the shower and he puts turmentine on
• 1:35:09
  it and it shrivels and you see the head in like the water in
• 1:35:14
  the bath, but it's just a tiny face with eyeballs and the
• 1:35:17
  eyeballs get sucked down the plug or what?
• 1:35:20
  Really frightening. Well, you can see this scene,
• 1:35:22
  can you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:23
  It's online. Check it out.
• 1:35:25
  I mean, you'll have nightmares afterwards.
• 1:35:27
  Good. No thanks.
• 1:35:29
  Then another bit of love in Toon tone, as well as when Eddie's
• 1:35:32
  walking down that back alley and he shadows there and he sneezes
• 1:35:35
  and it's like, because I'm type. I'll.
• 1:35:37
  Absolutely. Love that.
• 1:35:38
  Wonderful. Really.
• 1:35:39
  Really. Good, lovely little bit.
• 1:35:41
  There's so many bits like that, just it's so clever.
• 1:35:43
  You said John there that it takes you out a little bit when
• 1:35:46
  you see he's the the noise and then he goes around the corner
• 1:35:49
  and it's what he's after. I feel a similar way when Benny
• 1:35:52
  the cab shows up because it sticks out like a sore thumb.
• 1:35:56
  Which is ironic actually, because he says to Roger and
• 1:35:59
  Eddie just like a throwaway line right at the end of that scene,
• 1:36:04
  if you ever need a ride, just stick out your thumb, right?
• 1:36:06
  And Eddie quite obviously says no, it's this way.
• 1:36:09
  And then Benny appears. It just feels a little bit like
• 1:36:12
  shoe corned in. Yeah, I quite like that because
• 1:36:15
  you've got that real big close up on the thumb and like when
• 1:36:19
  you say Benny, you're just like, yes, great, there's no way I'm
• 1:36:22
  going to be disappointed by them again.
• 1:36:25
  Lovely. However he gets in there, I
• 1:36:26
  don't really care. So as we delve further into
• 1:36:29
  Toontown, Doom captures Eddie and Jessica and takes them to
• 1:36:32
  the ribbon cutting event at the Acme factory where we get one
• 1:36:35
  hell of a finale involving 5000 gallons of heated dip.
• 1:36:40
  John the ending at the Acme factory.
• 1:36:43
  On paper the ideas are fantastic, there's loads of
• 1:36:47
  things I like, the wheels are in there.
• 1:36:50
  Brilliant. Great.
• 1:36:51
  Yeah. I like the jeopardy we have
• 1:36:52
  where Roger and Jessica are tied up hanging from the ceiling and
• 1:36:55
  the dips being shot of them. I like that as an idea.
• 1:36:58
  Love it. Dooms big reveal as being the
• 1:37:00
  tune that killed Valiant's brother.
• 1:37:01
  That's great. And then he gets run over by a
• 1:37:03
  steamroller like Otto and a Fish Called Wanda I love.
• 1:37:06
  Him brilliant. I see it on paper, I like it
• 1:37:09
  because those things are all really good, but as the climax
• 1:37:12
  of the film, it does feel just a little bit underwhelming to me
• 1:37:16
  sometimes as well. I think Dooms reveal as being
• 1:37:18
  the tune that killed Valiant's brother.
• 1:37:21
  I'm not sure that has the impact that the megas wanted to have.
• 1:37:23
  Not on me anyway. I mean, it is good, it's a great
• 1:37:25
  idea, everything's all tied up. It just doesn't crescendo as a
• 1:37:28
  climax in the way that I know the megas can do and that I've
• 1:37:31
  seen do a lot of times before, which is a shame.
• 1:37:34
  But it is really good. But I think, like I was saying
• 1:37:37
  before, the storytelling sometimes lets the film down a
• 1:37:40
  little bit for me, and I think that becomes apparent for me
• 1:37:42
  here. Wow, Wesley.
• 1:37:44
  It's the same for me. It is a little bit
• 1:37:46
  underwhelming, but I just think that's the location in which
• 1:37:48
  it's set. I think it's quite a boring
• 1:37:50
  location, even though on paper, like John said, it's the Acme
• 1:37:53
  factory. There's going to be loads of
• 1:37:55
  these things around and all these props that you can fire,
• 1:37:57
  and it's going to be like all these things happening, which on
• 1:38:00
  paper, yeah, it works really well.
• 1:38:01
  But I think it's played down a little bit too much, in fact,
• 1:38:03
  that there's just kind of three acne props which you've seen
• 1:38:06
  before. Yeah, they've been set up.
• 1:38:08
  They've been set up in the the investigation.
• 1:38:10
  You've got like the hammer and you've got the black hole and
• 1:38:12
  you've. Yeah, that's great in the in the
• 1:38:13
  magnet. And they're wonderful.
• 1:38:14
  Yeah, fantastic. And there's some really, really
• 1:38:16
  funny bits. And there's probably the
• 1:38:17
  funniest bit in the film for me when Roger's on about going to
• 1:38:21
  drop me like a ton of bricks and the tonne of bricks.
• 1:38:23
  There's probably, that's probably the funniest scene in
• 1:38:26
  the whole thing, like a ton of bricks.
• 1:38:28
  Boom. It's just that timing.
• 1:38:31
  It's amazing. I love it.
• 1:38:32
  I love the set piece. I love the fact that, you know,
• 1:38:34
  it all comes back round and everything's rounded off here.
• 1:38:36
  And from the story point of view, there's a few things I
• 1:38:39
  don't like. I don't like when one of the
• 1:38:41
  weasels dies and then he just hits the lever as his souls.
• 1:38:45
  Floating up. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:46
  It's kind of like, Oh well, is it working or not?
• 1:38:48
  Can they just do anything at any time?
• 1:38:50
  You're in the floor then I guess.
• 1:38:52
  Do you know what the dips made out of?
• 1:38:54
  Tell us in the film, don't they? Yeah, acetone, turbentine,
• 1:38:57
  benzene. Benzene, which are the three
• 1:38:58
  things that animators use to remove the ink from cells.
• 1:39:02
  So it's a combination of how to kill a cartoon, which again, I
• 1:39:05
  loved that when I read that. It's a good sequence, but I
• 1:39:08
  think it could have been, like John said, a little bit more
• 1:39:11
  elevated given what Zemeckis did with Back to the Future for a
• 1:39:14
  start. Like, if it was anywhere near as
• 1:39:17
  as nail biting as that clock tower sequence, then we probably
• 1:39:20
  would have been in for a real thrill, right?
• 1:39:21
  But it does feel like we've seen everything and now they're just
• 1:39:24
  tying it up. Yeah.
• 1:39:27
  I've got to go against you. All right?
• 1:39:29
  I am totally satisfied by this ended.
• 1:39:31
  That's fine. Like you said, the Jeopardy's
• 1:39:33
  there and it's fantastic. The weasels are in there and are
• 1:39:36
  on top form, but we also get 2 Dooms.
• 1:39:39
  We get obviously Doom when he's a human being, but then this
• 1:39:43
  massive reveal. Holy smoke, he's a doom.
• 1:39:46
  That Doom is this awful cartoon who takes his glove off and he's
• 1:39:50
  got an anvil and slams him across the room, and then it's
• 1:39:54
  like that menace and sore. Yeah, it's fantastic.
• 1:39:57
  He's got knives for eyes as well, isn't he?
• 1:39:59
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, his voice.
• 1:40:01
  Love it. Jesus.
• 1:40:02
  Yeah. Awful, awful.
• 1:40:06
  It keeps getting higher and higher.
• 1:40:08
  Remember Me when I killed your brother?
• 1:40:11
  It's it's them Springs when he when he.
• 1:40:15
  The springs are ridiculous. But terrifying It's that's
• 1:40:20
  probably the problem I've got with it.
• 1:40:21
  I just, I've had enough with one Doom.
• 1:40:22
  I don't need to see this guy. And I always try and invade what
• 1:40:25
  he looks like under that rubber mask because everything's just
• 1:40:28
  obviously the human element of Doom is just to cover up the
• 1:40:31
  cartoon underneath. Yeah.
• 1:40:33
  So what does that cartoon look like?
• 1:40:35
  That's terrifying for me. I love it when Roger shows up
• 1:40:38
  from the sewer and he's given it the big and wave and he's gone
• 1:40:41
  around like he owns the place. That's hilarious.
• 1:40:44
  He's never been more confident. Yeah.
• 1:40:47
  You shouldn't have been brilliant.
• 1:40:52
  What do you think about this song and dance act from Valiant?
• 1:40:57
  I find it a little bit uncomfortable to watch, to be
• 1:40:59
  honest. Really, I think the main reason
• 1:41:01
  is because it's Bob Hoskins doing it, and he just seems so
• 1:41:04
  far out of his comfort zone. I can almost imagine him getting
• 1:41:07
  the shooting schedule and dreading the day I do the song
• 1:41:09
  and dance act. Yeah, I have no idea how that
• 1:41:11
  was the case, obviously, but that's a bit how it feels.
• 1:41:14
  Apart from that, I love it as a plot point.
• 1:41:16
  The complete Valiant arc, the wheels all laughing themselves
• 1:41:19
  to death is great. Although at the same time I am a
• 1:41:22
  bit sad to see them go as well. I am.
• 1:41:24
  And Roger has a great line where he's like, you're killing them,
• 1:41:26
  Mehdi, you're slaying them, you're not going.
• 1:41:28
  To be dead. Yeah, Really.
• 1:41:30
  So it is. It's an important plot point,
• 1:41:32
  needs to be in there, but watching through my fingers a
• 1:41:35
  little bit as well. Really, I think it could be a
• 1:41:38
  lot more cringe and juicing than it is, but just over the mark a
• 1:41:43
  little bit. But I still like, and it does
• 1:41:44
  hark back to Eddie's days, the circus.
• 1:41:47
  He's the song and dance man. Yeah, and that pay off with the
• 1:41:50
  weasels die and laughing. They're actually laughing at
• 1:41:52
  each other being murdered, which is chilly.
• 1:41:58
  There's no level of the sleeves of this film like it's so.
• 1:42:01
  Dark. But I love this bit.
• 1:42:03
  I love how it's totally against type of the character and
• 1:42:05
  totally against type of the actor.
• 1:42:07
  It does make it cringe worthy, but you know that this is what
• 1:42:09
  he's got to do. He's got an idea and he's got to
• 1:42:12
  do this and it works for me. It's a very theatrical scene.
• 1:42:15
  Doom like leaves almost stage left and goes behind the curtain
• 1:42:19
  and then he then comes out and does this big performance.
• 1:42:22
  And I absolutely love the singing Sword as well.
• 1:42:24
  That's an art recall back. Witchcraft I.
• 1:42:30
  Love him. That's hilarious.
• 1:42:32
  It's hilarious, that guy, like I could have done with another 20
• 1:42:35
  seconds of him. Just loads of great little bits.
• 1:42:37
  But yeah, that that song and dance for me.
• 1:42:38
  I think it works really well and I it's great that yeah, do so
• 1:42:41
  well with it. Beautiful.
• 1:42:43
  I really love it when Benny busts in a Sister Mary Francis,
• 1:42:48
  he says. I've been a cab for 37 years,
• 1:42:51
  not a cab driver. I've been a cab for 37 years,
• 1:42:53
  meaning he's just 37 years old. Great.
• 1:43:00
  And then glory. You send them with all the
• 1:43:01
  cartoon characters together having a wonderful time.
• 1:43:04
  And then the disappear and reappear in ink reveals the will
• 1:43:08
  that Acne left Toontown never feels to put a smile on me face
• 1:43:11
  that. Yeah, that is all great.
• 1:43:12
  Apparently Wiley Coyote is in there somewhere from what I've
• 1:43:15
  read, but I've looked and I can't see him.
• 1:43:16
  I mean, I love Wiley Coyote and Speedy Gonzalez.
• 1:43:18
  Apparently he's in there as well.
• 1:43:19
  I can't see hear my life. No, I've not noticed them.
• 1:43:23
  It's when it pans round. They're all just like part of
• 1:43:24
  the group. But another thing I've read, I
• 1:43:26
  don't know if you guys have read this or have seen it, but Luke
• 1:43:29
  might have seen it. But if you watch it frame for
• 1:43:31
  frame, you know when the DIP machine goes.
• 1:43:33
  Through the wall. Yeah, and the train comes past.
• 1:43:36
  If you watch that frame by frame, apparently there's a
• 1:43:38
  murder in every courage of the train.
• 1:43:40
  Oh my God. Which might be like a murder on
• 1:43:42
  the Orient Express type of thing.
• 1:43:43
  Or it's supposed to, Oh my God, dip.
• 1:43:45
  There's like this silhouettes of like murder and every courage
• 1:43:50
  and I've looked, but I kind of get frame by frame on me telly
• 1:43:52
  downstairs. So I've just seen that like
• 1:43:54
  every three or four frames, but you can tell the silhouettes
• 1:43:57
  there and they are doing something.
• 1:43:58
  So I think I need to check that out.
• 1:43:59
  Check that out, Yeah. If anyone could check that out,
• 1:44:02
  that's a brilliant. Fact.
• 1:44:03
  Finally, what I love is the old hand buzzer comes into play
• 1:44:06
  again. Yeah, and Eddie lands a big wet
• 1:44:10
  one straight on Roger's kisser. Yeah, fantastic.
• 1:44:14
  You fucking love this film. I love it.
• 1:44:17
  I love. It as you know as well that the
• 1:44:19
  end credits were the longest end credits reel ever. 800 names on
• 1:44:24
  there with all the animators, Jesus and Kathleen Turner like
• 1:44:27
  you mentioned before, she wasn't on there.
• 1:44:28
  So yeah, could have been 801. Yeah.
• 1:44:34
  I mean, I'm not surprised. Yeah.
• 1:44:35
  One of the Guinness World Record and then Turner's like left it
• 1:44:38
  off. I could have won it.
• 1:44:41
  I could have won it. So all's well that ends well.
• 1:44:43
  Roger and Jessica are finally reunited, the tunes have their
• 1:44:46
  town back, and then he gets closure from his demons.
• 1:44:49
  He's not such a sour puss after all.
• 1:44:56
  Reception and awards. There's been some disputes on
• 1:45:01
  the budget of Hoofing and Roger Rabbit.
• 1:45:02
  In initial reports it said it was 70 million, but Amblin and
• 1:45:05
  touched on insist that it's only 50.
• 1:45:08
  This was 20 million over the initial projected $30 million
• 1:45:11
  budget, which is tiny for a production like this.
• 1:45:15
  Despite the confusion in budget, there's no confusion about the
• 1:45:18
  return. Roger Rabbit returned a weapon
• 1:45:21
  156,000,000 domestically and overall $329 million worldwide.
• 1:45:27
  In today's money, that is $720 million big return.
• 1:45:31
  Massive. And it held the record in it for
• 1:45:33
  a while for the most expensive movie ever made.
• 1:45:36
  Yeah, it did. Yeah.
• 1:45:38
  And then it was taken over by Terminator Two in 1991.
• 1:45:42
  That's right. Yeah.
• 1:45:43
  Yeah. Do you know what had the record
• 1:45:44
  before Roger Rabbit? Was it Rambo 3?
• 1:45:47
  Rambo 3 Yeah, yeah, what a waste of money that was.
• 1:45:53
  Terrible. Man, it's.
• 1:45:56
  The best one? Rambo 3, Mission Impossible two.
• 1:46:02
  What's the matter with you? Had the Oscars, it was nominated
• 1:46:06
  7 times, winning four for sound effects editing, visual effects,
• 1:46:09
  film editing and Richard Williams won a special
• 1:46:12
  achievement award for animation direction as well.
• 1:46:16
  Well deserved. The film also won Best Fantasy
• 1:46:18
  Film, Best Director and Best Visual Effects of the Saturn
• 1:46:21
  Awards and Visual effects of the Baftas as well.
• 1:46:23
  So cleaning up technical awards. It has a huge 97% rating on
• 1:46:28
  Rotten Tomatoes and a score of 7.7 out of 10 on IMDb.
• 1:46:33
  From a critical point of view, Pete Travis and People magazine
• 1:46:36
  said your eyeballs have no other choice than to go boing.
• 1:46:42
  Gene Siskel said this is a movie that demands to be seen twice.
• 1:46:45
  The first time one is likely to be dazzled to the point of
• 1:46:48
  exhaustion. The second time we're going to
• 1:46:50
  appreciate the artistry and good humor more easily.
• 1:46:52
  Nice and his pal Roger Ebert said she enchanted entertainment
• 1:46:56
  from the 1st frame to the last. Surprise from Roger.
• 1:46:59
  Surprised he didn't say it's a load of shit.
• 1:47:03
  Just because his name's in there, that's why.
• 1:47:07
  There are very few negative reviews, but Richard called us
• 1:47:10
  right in. Time magazine said the opening
• 1:47:12
  cartoon Upstage is the movie that emerges from it.
• 1:47:15
  That's not true. No.
• 1:47:17
  I mean, it's great, but come on, yeah.
• 1:47:19
  It's you've seen it before, but Tom and Jerry have done that.
• 1:47:21
  Before and completely dismissing all of the genius work from the
• 1:47:26
  animators that have gone into it.
• 1:47:28
  So while in audiences and critics alike, Hooper and Roger
• 1:47:30
  Rabbit is as fresh today as it's always been.
• 1:47:36
  Sequels and influence. The success of Hooper and Roger
• 1:47:41
  Rabbit led to talk of a sequel almost immediately and pretty
• 1:47:44
  much consistently to this day, but unfortunately that is yet to
• 1:47:47
  materialise. Roger does pop up in a few
• 1:47:50
  cartoons of his own that premiered at screenings of some
• 1:47:53
  big movie releases. I do remember personally going
• 1:47:55
  to see Honey Action with the kids and seeing the first one,
• 1:47:57
  which is called Tummy Trouble. And this for me, in my what, 9
• 1:48:02
  or 10 year old head, was proof positive that there was going to
• 1:48:04
  be a sequel and I couldn't quite compute in my mind when it
• 1:48:09
  didn't materialize, I thought, well, surely they're making them
• 1:48:13
  again, so why isn't it a sequel? How devastated?
• 1:48:16
  Still devastated. I'd love to see a sequel.
• 1:48:18
  That brings about with me, actually.
• 1:48:20
  Yeah. Did you see that as well?
• 1:48:21
  Now you mentioned, I think I did.
• 1:48:22
  I can definitely remember seeing Roger Robert on the screen in
• 1:48:24
  the cinema, which wasn't the film.
• 1:48:27
  Yeah, there are a few of those cartoons, a few sequels to the
• 1:48:31
  book as well. In the intervening years, like
• 1:48:33
  we talked about, Roger starred in a series of comic books that
• 1:48:36
  continue his story as well, but that film still evades us.
• 1:48:41
  It does, but there have been a couple of possible sequels that
• 1:48:45
  have been mentioned over the years.
• 1:48:46
  So there was one. There was a prequel called Tune
• 1:48:49
  Patrol. That was where Roger and some
• 1:48:51
  other tunes were drafted into the army during World War Two
• 1:48:54
  and go on a mission in Nazi Germany to save Jessica.
• 1:48:59
  Spielberg said no chance. No chance.
• 1:49:03
  He was right. Surely that sounds ridiculous.
• 1:49:05
  Ridiculous. And there was a sequel idea
• 1:49:08
  called Who Discovered Roger Rabbit set in the 50s.
• 1:49:11
  The Mecca says about that a script exists and it was more of
• 1:49:14
  a continuation than a sequel. Disney said no because there's
• 1:49:17
  no Princess in it. Yeah.
• 1:49:20
  Wow, okay. He said he doesn't know where it
• 1:49:22
  fits in the universe, but there is a wonderful script sitting at
• 1:49:26
  Disney. The word is that Disney don't
• 1:49:28
  care for the character of Jessica, which in this day and
• 1:49:30
  age, I'm not surprised. Yeah, I can't believe that
• 1:49:33
  hasn't been a sequel though. I mean, nowadays if something
• 1:49:35
  made done, was it $720 million, it would be straight in there.
• 1:49:39
  I know. Greenlit before it even came
• 1:49:40
  out. Make another one straight away.
• 1:49:42
  No. I think just the workload
• 1:49:44
  attached to it. Yeah, good point.
• 1:49:47
  The animators are going no, I know how hard that is to do.
• 1:49:50
  Our price is now 700 million, that's what.
• 1:49:53
  The budget needs to do. Not doing that again.
• 1:49:56
  Yeah. I'm not throwing all that shit
• 1:49:57
  again because we went on a whim. We went against everything that
• 1:49:59
  we thought we're going to go against.
• 1:50:01
  I've had live action stuff. I didn't know it was going to
• 1:50:03
  work. It worked really, really well.
• 1:50:04
  So pay us four times as much. That's probably what happened.
• 1:50:07
  It's probably why they never made them.
• 1:50:08
  IMDb is showing that a sequel slated for a 2022 release seems
• 1:50:14
  a bit premature, and I mean be very surprised if that
• 1:50:17
  materialized at all. But another question from one of
• 1:50:20
  our patrons, George Anderson, asks how would we feel a sequel
• 1:50:25
  would go over now with classic 2D animation not really in vogue
• 1:50:28
  anymore? Should the film makers stay true
• 1:50:30
  to the source and do only 2D or go for more CG animation?
• 1:50:34
  What do you think? Usually when I hear about
• 1:50:37
  sequels planned for classics I do roll my eyes a little bit,
• 1:50:41
  but this one I'd be all for. I mean, Hoskins of course
• 1:50:44
  wouldn't be around, unfortunately.
• 1:50:45
  All right, they. But there's loads of stuff that
• 1:50:47
  could do within that world still.
• 1:50:49
  I mean, if they do make it, what I'm expecting is for it to
• 1:50:51
  basically ape the original like Hollywood tends to do.
• 1:50:55
  But if they really try and do something ground breaking again,
• 1:50:57
  I think they definitely could. What I'd love to see them do is
• 1:51:00
  combine all these different elements of animation that we
• 1:51:02
  have now. So keep the live action aspect
• 1:51:05
  obviously, and blend it with hand roll animations like in
• 1:51:07
  Roger Rabbit, but also incorporate Pixar style CGI as
• 1:51:11
  well. Bring in Japanese anime
• 1:51:12
  influence as well, like we're talking about something that
• 1:51:15
  includes all these different animation styles with live
• 1:51:17
  action and does it to the level that Roger Robert does.
• 1:51:19
  It could be just as good as Roger Robert and just as
• 1:51:21
  groundbreaking as Roger Robert. I'm not expecting them to be
• 1:51:24
  that adventurous, but if nothing else, it'll be great to see
• 1:51:28
  Roger and Jessica again. Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 1:51:31
  I think maybe we'll edit that out, John, because if Disney
• 1:51:35
  hear about your plans, you'll be snapped up by them.
• 1:51:37
  That's a genius idea. Maybe they'll just lift the
• 1:51:43
  idea. And then about anything ever
• 1:51:46
  again. Yeah.
• 1:51:47
  I wonder which one of those two things would happen.
• 1:51:49
  Yeah. We'll be investigating someone
• 1:51:52
  drop a piano in your head and answer that question for the two
• 1:51:59
  DI think it's the point. I feel that it needs to stick
• 1:52:03
  with the original concept in the original premise, and it needs
• 1:52:06
  to be two D. And I think if they do that and
• 1:52:09
  they maintain that retro look of Roger Rabbit from 1988 and they
• 1:52:13
  have that exact same premise and that exact same procedure and
• 1:52:18
  that exact same technique, it's exactly what's needed for
• 1:52:20
  uptight and grumpy millennials like us to turn around with a
• 1:52:24
  younger generation and go. You don't need all that Pixar
• 1:52:26
  shit you just see. You just draw it.
• 1:52:29
  Just draw it like we used to. Do 1,000,000 illustration.
• 1:52:32
  Just do that, yeah. Look, it's. 14 months worth of
• 1:52:36
  painstaking. Work.
• 1:52:38
  I think that they should definitely stay true to what
• 1:52:42
  Roger Rabbit is, and if they were going to combine all the
• 1:52:44
  things like John said, which I think is a phenomenal idea, it
• 1:52:47
  could be something completely different, but I think Roger
• 1:52:50
  Rabbit should just be Roger Rabbit.
• 1:52:52
  It is traditional. It is retro anyway, even to us
• 1:52:55
  in the 80s. It's retro and it's traditional.
• 1:52:58
  You know, it's the 40s tunes. It's the 40s kind of vibe.
• 1:53:01
  I would love to see it updated to maybe the 60s or maybe the
• 1:53:04
  70s, just exploring that genre of time or that place in time
• 1:53:10
  where it could be, you know, really Pixar animation made
• 1:53:13
  Toontown a desolate place and there's somewhere else you can
• 1:53:16
  go. Nice.
• 1:53:17
  Toontown is now dying because 2D in traditional elements have
• 1:53:21
  been replaced by something else. So I think there is a lot of
• 1:53:23
  things that that can do with it and a lot of ways that can
• 1:53:26
  address the progression in technology.
• 1:53:29
  But in the delivery of the film, I think it should all be retro,
• 1:53:32
  old fashioned 2D. Do it that way because that's
• 1:53:35
  Roger Rabbit, isn't? It yes it is.
• 1:53:38
  My need to see a sequel hasn't relented since I was seven since
• 1:53:41
  I first saw the film. I still feel the same now, but I
• 1:53:44
  just can't see it happening. I've no doubt that if it's done
• 1:53:47
  in the old fashioned way that it would appeal to kids and adults
• 1:53:50
  if it follows the same vein as the original.
• 1:53:52
  I just don't think that Disney would have the balls to follow
• 1:53:56
  through on doing the classic animation style in case that it
• 1:53:59
  didn't go over with audiences and they wouldn't want to give
• 1:54:03
  the the animation of modern spin potentially because that might
• 1:54:06
  be a backlash from Love as the original.
• 1:54:09
  So I think it's maybe a bit of a rock and a hard place.
• 1:54:12
  I'd love to see it. I just can't see it happening.
• 1:54:14
  It's been talked about for 2032 years now.
• 1:54:18
  Yeah, they wouldn't take a risk. But if anyone's in a position to
• 1:54:20
  take a risk on a big budget film, it's Disney.
• 1:54:23
  The own Marvel, the own Star Wars, the own picture that could
• 1:54:26
  easily make a $200 million film that flopped make no difference
• 1:54:30
  to them. They could, but really, when
• 1:54:31
  they've got loads of plates spinning then really why would
• 1:54:35
  they want to resurrect this when a 32 year old film does it still
• 1:54:39
  have a fan base? What's the point when they've
• 1:54:40
  got loads of other franchises going?
• 1:54:42
  I think because of everything that we've spoke about, I think
• 1:54:45
  because the character really works on every level and because
• 1:54:48
  the premise works on every level and there's nothing like this
• 1:54:51
  out there now, and that could release something now that still
• 1:54:54
  has that retro vibe to it. I think they could have another
• 1:54:58
  Roger Rabbit on the hands and reintroduce this character to a
• 1:55:00
  new generation. The reason a deal will be for
• 1:55:02
  artistic reasons. Let's do something incredible
• 1:55:05
  that's never been done before that will be watched for the
• 1:55:07
  next 100 years like the all these classic characters are.
• 1:55:11
  Is that desire still there in Disney like it was 70 years ago?
• 1:55:15
  Probably not. But then if you look at all the
• 1:55:17
  parodies that have been done, I mean, look at the success of
• 1:55:19
  Shrek, which it's computer animation, Yeah, fair enough.
• 1:55:24
  It's DreamWorks. Spielberg's behind it.
• 1:55:25
  And that's fine. But they do the same thing with
• 1:55:27
  the parody of mythical creatures and fairy tales.
• 1:55:31
  It's the same kind of vibe. They're still riffing off
• 1:55:33
  something. So you can now bring back that
• 1:55:36
  idea, but it's just, I don't think it will be as fresh.
• 1:55:38
  I think people still know who Bugs Bunny is and who the Looney
• 1:55:42
  Tunes are. And I think you could really
• 1:55:44
  bring that back. I mean, Spielberg try to do that
• 1:55:46
  early 90s with the Animaniacs and try to bring this whole kind
• 1:55:49
  of Looney Tunes thing back. And I think there's always
• 1:55:52
  people looking for a franchise, especially now.
• 1:55:55
  And if you can kick start something that's then going to
• 1:55:58
  have animations to spin off onto Netflix and to spin off on a
• 1:56:01
  different streaming programs and then go to Amazon Prime and have
• 1:56:05
  the bullets from the gun. Like we said, I'd love to see a
• 1:56:07
  cartoon with them. I think it's going to go ahead.
• 1:56:09
  I think it's going to get made. I think they're going to take a
• 1:56:11
  chance on it because I don't think it's as important to
• 1:56:15
  everyone else in the world as it is to you, Luke, to be honest.
• 1:56:19
  Like I would take a put on this no problem.
• 1:56:21
  I can't believe they haven't done it because it's this real
• 1:56:24
  golden egg they've got their potentially it's only one film.
• 1:56:26
  It's untapped that whole world in that character.
• 1:56:29
  Any other studio would chop their arm offered to have Roger
• 1:56:31
  Rabbit on the. Course.
• 1:56:32
  Yeah, well, the influence of Roger Abbott was far reaching.
• 1:56:37
  Live action mixed with animation was attempted in other films in
• 1:56:40
  the years following it. Films like Cool World from 1992
• 1:56:44
  star and Brad Pitt and an animated Kim Basinger.
• 1:56:47
  And it's got a 6% rating on Rotten Tomatoes so not
• 1:56:51
  fantastic. Yeah.
• 1:56:52
  I think part of the reason for that is that Basinger's
• 1:56:55
  character name, she's called Holly HOLLI and her surname is
• 1:56:59
  Wood, WOULD terrible. Space Jam in 1996 was more
• 1:57:08
  successful. Stars Michael Jordan, Bill
• 1:57:10
  Murray finally had his crack and Meldon live action and
• 1:57:13
  animation. Yeah, it's got the Lunar Tunes
• 1:57:15
  cartoons in there as well. And also, that's got a sequel
• 1:57:18
  coming out slated for release next year with LeBron James.
• 1:57:21
  It has, yeah. I think we were probably bit old
• 1:57:22
  for that. We were about 1516.
• 1:57:24
  I never. Saw it for that reason.
• 1:57:26
  But I know people that are younger than us who were kids at
• 1:57:28
  the time love it. Yeah.
• 1:57:31
  Most strikingly, Who Framed Roger Rabbit is talked about is
• 1:57:34
  being held directly responsible for what's referred to as the
• 1:57:37
  Disney Renaissance directly after the film's release.
• 1:57:41
  Disney had been going through this low period from the late
• 1:57:43
  70s onwards. There was a change of ownership
• 1:57:45
  and one of their biggest stars, Don Bluth, left to form his own
• 1:57:48
  studio and took a big chunk of Disney's animators with him.
• 1:57:52
  Don Bluth Productions was a major rival to Disney,
• 1:57:54
  outstripping in the box office for a few years as well, but the
• 1:57:57
  circumcise of Fufri and Roger Rabbit influenced Disney to
• 1:57:59
  focus their attention to largely well known stories.
• 1:58:02
  It paid off. For the next 10 years Disney
• 1:58:05
  produced films like Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas,
• 1:58:08
  Tarzan, Hercules which were hugely successful and that put
• 1:58:12
  Disney back on top again, leading to the birth of the
• 1:58:15
  Pixar movies. So not only your success with
• 1:58:18
  audience and critics, Who Framed Roger Abbott was hugely
• 1:58:20
  influential on the industry. If only we could have got that
• 1:58:24
  goddamn sequel though. I.
• 1:58:25
  Thought you could have got the goddamn sequel.
• 1:58:36
  So there you have it then we've reached the end of the tale, the
• 1:58:38
  final curtain. Goofy, Daffy, Tinkerbell,
• 1:58:41
  Donald, they're all waiting with bated breath to hear our scores
• 1:58:44
  for Hoofer and Roger Rabbit. So John, what are your final
• 1:58:47
  thoughts on the film? And you score out of 10.
• 1:58:50
  I like the film a lot. The thing Roger Rabbit gets
• 1:58:52
  praised for is the blend of animation and live action, and
• 1:58:55
  that's the thing it should get praised for.
• 1:58:57
  That hasn't been much before since and it is incredible.
• 1:59:01
  I love how they set out to do something they had never been
• 1:59:03
  done before. I love that about the film.
• 1:59:05
  That never happens with big budget films nowadays, or not
• 1:59:09
  since Avatar anyway. I love the passion and the love
• 1:59:12
  for the art that leaps off the screen from the whole animation
• 1:59:15
  team. Richard Williams work here is 10
• 1:59:18
  out of 10. Whatever the highest score is,
• 1:59:20
  he gets it. That's it.
• 1:59:22
  For those reasons, the film has the meanings of a masterpiece
• 1:59:24
  for me, but the final product just isn't.
• 1:59:28
  I mentioned the storytelling, and the level of that to me is
• 1:59:30
  way below the level of the animations, and it does feel a
• 1:59:34
  bit like a missed opportunity because of that.
• 1:59:37
  That said, I love Roger, I love the Looney Tunes cameos.
• 1:59:41
  Jessica, Bob Hoskins, the weasels are all great, lots of
• 1:59:44
  great things. So I'm going for 9 out of 10.
• 1:59:49
  Why was that OK? That was expected lower.
• 1:59:53
  Yeah, I was expecting. No, that's a.
• 1:59:54
  Decent those animations, I can't go all the wide bit.
• 1:59:57
  Incredible. Yeah, they are fantastic.
• 2:00:00
  What about you, Westie? Right, OK, fucking right.
• 2:00:03
  So. I mean, you don't have to if you
• 2:00:05
  don't want to. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:00:08
  That is what we do generally, though.
• 2:00:09
  I know, right? It's not a surprise.
• 2:00:11
  I know I just didn't expect to come round so quick.
• 2:00:14
  I was still thinking about it. It was great fun when I was a
• 2:00:17
  kid. It was something I'd seen and
• 2:00:19
  haven't seen before and I haven't seen since really.
• 2:00:23
  I watched it again and I really appreciate the craft behind it.
• 2:00:26
  For me, this separates itself out.
• 2:00:28
  Like John said, you know, there's some elements that
• 2:00:30
  really let it down. For me, it's the overall
• 2:00:33
  seediness and their overall dourness of it.
• 2:00:37
  It just leaves us feeling a little bit sad when it finishes.
• 2:00:41
  You love. That shit.
• 2:00:51
  I love it when it's intentional. I don't like it when it's
• 2:00:53
  unintentional as this is. I love the characters, I love
• 2:00:57
  all the elements. But like John said, when it's
• 2:00:59
  put together, it doesn't gel consistently as a whole film for
• 2:01:04
  me. Like I watched it again for this
• 2:01:07
  and I thought to myself, like when I finished I thought I
• 2:01:09
  don't really have much desire to see that again for about 10
• 2:01:13
  years really. It's fun.
• 2:01:15
  I've no real desire to watch it again.
• 2:01:17
  It's a breakthrough in the craft, but I'll be totally
• 2:01:20
  honest, it's not necessarily a craft that I'm passionate about
• 2:01:22
  or interested in the animation side of stuff.
• 2:01:25
  I think it's fantastic what they achieved, but it's not something
• 2:01:28
  that I'll go out me with or get excited about.
• 2:01:30
  It's just that element of cinema to me that doesn't really
• 2:01:33
  appeal. I appreciate it.
• 2:01:35
  It's good fun. Terrified of it.
• 2:01:37
  It leaves us a little bit weird, a little bit dower.
• 2:01:41
  I don't think I'm going to show me kids it because it'll fucking
• 2:01:43
  terrify them. So I'm going to go for 7.5.
• 2:01:46
  Wow. Sorry.
• 2:01:49
  Hey, it's fine. That's fine.
• 2:01:51
  I generally can't fathom when people say they don't find this
• 2:01:56
  fun or they don't like the film. I think it doesn't disappoint to
• 2:01:59
  me in the slightest. I think the film's so multi
• 2:02:02
  layered that you can watch it from loads of different angles.
• 2:02:05
  You can wonder at the animation and the fact that they've
• 2:02:07
  managed to get all these classic cartoon characters together in
• 2:02:10
  one place. That's remarkable.
• 2:02:12
  That'll never happen again. The fact that new cartoon
• 2:02:15
  character is introduced and integrate perfectly with the old
• 2:02:17
  ones, amazing. I really love the script and I
• 2:02:20
  love contrary to what you say in Westie, I love this CD.
• 2:02:24
  Underbelly and the cheeky gags are great.
• 2:02:27
  I like that it's not afraid to go to those dark places and any
• 2:02:30
  film with any kind of noir elements, I'm all in.
• 2:02:34
  And in the years since its first release, it didn't stick with me
• 2:02:37
  like things like Ghostbusters, Raiders, Back to the Future
• 2:02:40
  date. Like I said at the top, I think
• 2:02:42
  it was because the animation as I got older, it's not cool for a
• 2:02:45
  16 year old to be watching Hoover and Roger Rabbit and I
• 2:02:48
  didn't go back to it till my late 20s.
• 2:02:51
  So for that reason, I'm going to strip a mark off it and I'm
• 2:02:54
  going to give it a nine out of 10.
• 2:02:56
  Good score. It is a good score.
• 2:03:00
  If you do, say so yourself. It's one of mine.
• 2:03:06
  On Twitter, our followers have been voting on who frame Roger
• 2:03:08
  Rabbit as well. Few comments.
• 2:03:10
  First, Gary W at Flail and Kermit.
• 2:03:14
  Gary is a patron of ADRM. He said.
• 2:03:17
  It's a lighthearted crime noir film, it's a period piece, it's
• 2:03:21
  genuinely funny comedy, it's a dazzling showcase of practical
• 2:03:24
  effects, and it's an animation nerds dream come true.
• 2:03:28
  It is Gary's favorite film, and he concluded by saying that he
• 2:03:32
  loved it as a kid. He loves it even more as an
• 2:03:35
  adult, and he's positive that people will still be loving it
• 2:03:37
  long after he's dead. Oh, fucking hell.
• 2:03:40
  I'm sorry, Gary Green. It's there's no relation here.
• 2:03:47
  I'm not doing this to get back at me brother or something.
• 2:03:49
  Evil twin. Evil twin.
• 2:03:53
  Matt Packer at MJP Writer said a brilliant tuned up pastiche of
• 2:03:57
  Chinatown that still elicits wonder and or deep into the age
• 2:04:01
  of pixels and processing power, replete with gonzo ideas and
• 2:04:04
  despite all the references has its own identity thanks largely
• 2:04:07
  to Hoskins who carries the whole thing on his shoulders.
• 2:04:10
  Big prayers for Bob. James Holson Beach at James
• 2:04:14
  Holson B Simply said. Bob Hoskins, man, Bob bloody
• 2:04:18
  Hoskins. That is it.
• 2:04:24
  That's his review, yeah. Brilliant.
• 2:04:30
  And finally, not everyone can love the same thing of course.
• 2:04:33
  Matt Loom at Matt Loom, one who was also a Peter and the RM says
• 2:04:38
  I always thought it was shit. All right, fair enough.
• 2:04:43
  Cheers, Matt. Thanks for that.
• 2:04:45
  Thanks for backing me up. With all the votes in on
• 2:04:49
  Twitter, who friend Roger Rabbit came out with it?
• 2:04:52
  8 out of 10. You're right, disappointing
• 2:04:55
  results. Surprised by that?
• 2:04:56
  No, not at all really, to be honest.
• 2:04:58
  I was. I was expecting a little bit
• 2:05:01
  higher considering it was voted for by Twitter followers to do
• 2:05:06
  on the podcast. It was.
• 2:05:07
  Yeah, it was. And then they bumped us with an
• 2:05:09
  S. Screwed us over like twitty pie.
• 2:05:16
  No more pities. So that means that with our
• 2:05:21
  votes and the vote from Twitter combined, Who Framed Roger
• 2:05:24
  Rabbit has an overall score of 33.5 out of 40.
• 2:05:29
  Go to alltherightmovies.com/leaderboard
• 2:05:31
  to see how Who Framed Roger Rabbit is shaping up against the
• 2:05:34
  others we've covered. Not that well, I suspect.
• 2:05:37
  No, it'll be one of the lower ones I think.
• 2:05:38
  Yeah, as mentioned at the top, sign up to us on Patreon,
• 2:05:43
  www.patreon.com/all the Right Movies for regular additional
• 2:05:48
  exclusive movie podcasts and access to our podcast archive.
• 2:05:52
  And a shout out to our directors.
• 2:05:54
  Cheer to your patrons. They are Adam Cowie, Adam Yates,
• 2:05:57
  Damian Lennox, Anna Randall, Andrea Barker, Saeed Matlum,
• 2:06:01
  Graham Cheddar, Just Joe, Kenny Morrison, Gary W, Jamie Russell,
• 2:06:05
  Robert Shearer, Mike Riley, Robbie D and George Anderson.
• 2:06:09
  Thanks everybody. Thanks guys.
• 2:06:11
  Great gang of guys. Thank you guys.
• 2:06:12
  So that's a wrap. We're now off to Toontown to
• 2:06:15
  have a good old sing along. I'm not invited, obviously.
• 2:06:23
  For all sure notes, credits and references that were used in
• 2:06:25
  production of the podcast, you can visit us at all the right
• 2:06:28
  movies.com/who Hyphen framed hyphen Roger Hyphen Rabbit.
• 2:06:33
  Join us next time in All the right Movies when John, Westie
• 2:06:35
  and Matt will Burrow into your subconscious as they talk about
• 2:06:38
  Chris Nolan's mind bending inception.
• 2:06:42
  Going to be a big in. As always, if you could
• 2:06:45
  subscribe, read and review us on Apple Podcasts, we'd be
• 2:06:47
  thrilled. You probably know, but we're on
• 2:06:50
  Spotify, Google Podcast and everywhere else and features go
• 2:06:53
  up on our website regularly. That's
• 2:06:54
  www.alltherightmovies.com. Check that out for loads of
• 2:06:58
  great stuff. As always on Twitter, we are at
• 2:07:01
  Right under score movies, Instagram at all the under score
• 2:07:05
  right movies and the website againalltherightmovies.com.
• 2:07:09
  That's all folks. See you soon.
• 2:07:11
  Thanks everybody. See you guys.
• 2:07:12
  Bye.