Latest / The Weight / Season 6 Wrap Up with Chris, Eddie, & Cody

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Season 6 Wrap Up with Chris, Eddie, & Cody · The Weight

• 0:00
  Chris McAlilly: [INTRO] Leadership today demands more than technical expertise. It requires deep wisdom to navigate the complexity of a turbulent world, courage to reimagine broken systems, and unwarranted hope to inspire durable change.
• 0:22
  Eddie Rester: As Christ centered leaders in churches, non profits, the Academy, and the marketplace, we all carry the weight of cultivating communities that reflect God's kingdom in a fragmented world.
• 0:33
  Chris McAlilly: But this weight wasn't meant to be carried alone. The Christian tradition offers us centuries of wisdom if we have the humility to listen and learn from diverse voices.
• 0:43
  Eddie Rester: That's why The Weight exists to create space for the conversations that challenge our assumptions, deepen our thinking and renew our spiritual imagination.
• 0:52
  Chris McAlilly: Faithful leadership in our time requires both conviction and curiosity, rootedness and tradition, and responsiveness to a changing world.
• 1:01
  Eddie Rester: So whether you're leading a congregation, raising a family, teaching students, running a nonprofit, or bringing faith into your business, join us as we explore the depth and richness of Christ centered leadership today. Welcome to The Weight. [END INTRO] I'm Eddie Rester.
• 1:17
  Chris McAlilly: I'm Chris McAlilly.
• 1:18
  Cody Hickman: And I'm Cody Hickman!
• 1:20
  Chris McAlilly: Who is Cody Hickman?
• 1:22
  Eddie Rester: Today is an expanded episode of the Weight, not in time, but just in voice.
• 1:25
  Eddie Rester: Today, we've welcomed our formerly long haired friend, Cody Hickman, who moonlights as our producer, into the fray today.
• 1:37
  Chris McAlilly: And why is he here?
• 1:38
  Eddie Rester: Today's our season ending episode, the end of season six of The Weight. I didn't think we'd go six episodes. We've gone six years.
• 1:45
  Eddie Rester: This is amazing.
• 1:48
  Chris McAlilly: It's amazing.
• 1:48
  Chris McAlilly: And on Thanksgiving Day, which is when this is coming out.
• 1:52
  Eddie Rester: That's right, we always do the wrap up.
• 1:54
  Chris McAlilly: And if you're enjoying your family, if you're trying to get away from your family...
• 1:59
  Cody Hickman: We'll give you about a good thirty, forty five minutes of The Weight time.
• 2:03
  Eddie Rester: This is how we should title the episode, "an excuse to get away from your family on Thanksgiving".
• 2:10
  Chris McAlilly: And to give thanks for a wonderful season, Years?
• 2:13
  Eddie Rester: It has been a wonderful season. We're going to which we'll be doing.
• 2:16
  Eddie Rester: talk about some of our favorite episodes, maybe some of what we've learned and glean through the years.
• 2:20
  Eddie Rester: Years.
• 2:23
  Cody Hickman: I can barely remember, like a few weeks ago.
• 2:27
  Chris McAlilly: Cody is working, and so it's a short memory time horizon.
• 2:33
  Eddie Rester: But I was gonna say, then we got to carve out some time for some Festivus, where I can air grievances against both of you.
• 2:40
  Cody Hickman: Now, before we get there to the Festivus, over any other thing. Why would you just want to save all of it for later?
• 2:45
  Eddie Rester: Let's just save all of it. But why am I doing this this year? Because I got a problem with some of you people.
• 2:54
  Cody Hickman: There's only two of us...
• 2:57
  Chris McAlilly: And everyone listening.
• 2:59
  Cody Hickman: ...grievances with our audience.
• 3:05
  Chris McAlilly: Oh, man, yeah, this is the sixth season. It's been a good season, Eddie. What was your favorite episode? Go ahead, come on. Come in, strong.
• 3:14
  Eddie Rester: You know, I think we started. We started the year with Annie Downs.
• 3:19
  Chris McAlilly: That was good.
• 3:20
  Eddie Rester: And it was a great episode. One of the things I love about Annie Downs is that she reminds us that the church is not what it used to be in terms of it's all married people with kids, and really is a voice for the place of single adults in the life of the church. And equips not just single adults, but equips churches for how they speak and they talk in a way that is much more broadly inclusive of all people who are coming and particularly young adults who are getting married much later, if they get married at all.
• 3:58
  Chris McAlilly: Annie Downs was a great conversation. We had some great conversations with folks who have wide reach, wide audience. Annie Downs is one of them. One of the things that I remember about that particular episode is that she is a professional. She is able to zoom through, kind of the podcast medium to make you feel like you're right next to her. I don't know it was just... she had a warm presence. And one of the things that she did this year was talk through seasons, life as kind of a series of seasons. And she began in winter. So things were difficult, but she was kind of going to travel through the year and lead her community through a conversation about life in different seasons. And that was a good way to start the year. Go ahead.
• 4:55
  Eddie Rester: I was just going to say another episode that I really loved was Tom. Tom Nelson is early May, and talked about some of the things they do at their church. One of the things that I'm stealing from him, we're actually going to use it at Lovers Lane in the fall, is just bringing people up to talk about how faith is active in their day, how you bridge the gap from Sunday to Monday, and bringing people up just to simply say, what are you going to be doing tomorrow at this time? What does your faith have to say to that? And how can we pray for you? And I just think that's so powerful in terms of helping people think about what's happening on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, as a part of the life of faith. And for me, I still think about that episode.
• 5:40
  Chris McAlilly: Yeah, Tom Nelson runs an organization called"Made to Flourish," and he's thinking about, essentially, how do you empower people to integrate their faith, their work, economic wisdom for the flourishing of their communities? And, yeah, that was a phenomenal conversation. It reminded me a lot of, I don't know if the audience knows the name Tim Keller, but a lot of the work that Tim Keller did at Redeemer Presbyterian New York City seemed to be received by Tom Nelson and then kind of offered in a new way in the Midwest. I think He's based in Kansas City, and I did not know of his work until recently.
• 6:27
  Chris McAlilly: I'm always looking for people who can help bridge the conversation between faith and work. How do you integrate your life, your faith and your work?
• 6:34
  Chris McAlilly: And yeah, really enjoyed that conversation as well, I like the episodes, every season where we move away from kind of a serious topic, and maybe we move into a conversation about art or music.
• 6:51
  Chris McAlilly: Dan Forrest is a composer and has written some extraordinary pieces of music, leading people into worship, particularly traditional music. And the conversation with him was awesome. What do you remember
• 7:11
  Eddie Rester: Well, I've just been a big fan of Dan Forrest about that one? Eddie?
• 7:15
  Eddie Rester: forever, and just his music. And someone who can bring ancient texts to life in a new way, I think is important for us. I think his vision of beauty and how beauty is important to faith, I think is critical for us. I think sometimes we lose sight of how important it is for us to engage in the beauty that God gives to us. That God is woven into the fabric of our world. And Dan gets that, and he puts out some amazing, amazing music in the world. And so if you're not familiar with Dan Forrest, just go to YouTube, type in Dan Forrest and just start listening.
• 7:56
  Chris McAlilly: We had this conversation cutting an idea with a college student who's going to be preaching for us at the end of the year. And I was just blown away with... we asked him what he was preaching on and we kind of gave him carte blanche to just pick a text. And the text that he picked was Revelation seven, this image of the end of all things, where the throne of God is surrounded by angels and archangels and all the company of heaven and all the saints. And they're singing with one full voice and an offering back to God, glory and praise and honor and Thanksgiving. And he started talking about what he was going to preach on, and why it was important, and how it's connected to the mental health of young people.
• 8:42
  Chris McAlilly: And we've just received such an amazing gift that's come to us from God as our Creator. And of course, we should just offer this back to God. This gift, this glory, this praise, this honor. And he kind of led us through how he thinks as a college student about the importance of worship, the power of worship, how to worship. I was just blown away by it. I think that the Dan Forrest conversation for me is one of those that helped remind me that not everything we do is to produce something, to create something. Sometimes we just need to waste time in worship with beauty and music. And that conversation kind of led me in that direction.
• 9:23
  Cody Hickman: That makes me think of Rachel Jordan. Is that right? The marine biologist we had, I think, is Rachel Jordan.
• 9:30
  Eddie Rester: I'd have to go back. I'd have to go back.
• 9:31
  Cody Hickman: I think that's right. If not, I'll correct in a little bit. She talked about, she's a marine biologist. She does all this work in ecology.
• 9:37
  Cody Hickman: But through that has like...
• 9:43
  Cody Hickman: being in nature and doing her study and all that leads her to the worship of the Creator. And so I think that reminds me of that, that connection of what is work and faith, and how do those line up, and how you know...
• 9:57
  Cody Hickman: most people aren't working in a church. How do you live out your faith daily? How do you worship daily? And for her, it's her work as a marine biologist.
• 10:06
  Chris McAlilly: She said in that episode Saint Irenaeus, back in the fourth century, one of the early church fathers, the initial step for a soul to come to knowledge of God is contemplation of nature. It's contemplating the created order, the beauty and the wonder that can be awakened in us as we consider the work of God.
• 10:24
  Chris McAlilly: Certainly that leads to worship, and some of that can be in the form of music, in the form of praise. But for Rachel, it was really just standing before the mystery or the awe, or, you know, underneath the sea, like doing deep dives. I know that's one of your passions Eddie is diving and just exploring the natural world and its complexity and its beauty. And that led her to worship. I forgot about that episode completely.
• 10:52
  Cody Hickman: Did I get the name right?
• 10:52
  Chris McAlilly: Yeah. Rachel Jordan, you crushed it. Nailed it.
• 10:54
  Cody Hickman: Also, Eddie, I really, really want to see you like in a full wet like... I want to see you walking on land with flippers. That's mainly what I want to see.
• 11:02
  Chris McAlilly: That's our picture for this episode.
• 11:03
  Eddie Rester: You've got a video of me walking in my wetsuit with flippers, the whole gear for a promo video for something.
• 11:10
  Cody Hickman: Man, I totally forgot about that.
• 11:12
  Chris McAlilly: It's out there on the internet. Someone find that video and put it out there again.
• 11:16
  Eddie Rester: Cody, is your brain rotting? What's going on?
• 11:18
  Cody Hickman: Yes! As Chris said, I have four kids. My brain is full rot.
• 11:24
  Chris McAlilly: Eddie, do you ever get in that gear? You have that gear at your house? You just ever get back in the... you have a pool in your backyard now...
• 11:27
  Eddie Rester: I have a pool in my backyard now. All I need is a tank.
• 11:31
  Chris McAlilly: Put this out on... do videos on social media during Thanksgiving. Today's Thanksgiving, the people need this, Eddie. Everyone needs to see you in a wetsuit, jumping in your pool, man, come on.
• 11:41
  Eddie Rester: I will not be. I will be away from my- I would do it. Let me just say out loud, I would do it. But I will be away from... it would be, I think, exclusive Weight podcast content.
• 11:54
  Cody Hickman: It would be highly exclusive, that's gonna be on the Patreon later.
• 11:58
  Eddie Rester: Patreon, yes.
• 12:01
  Chris McAlilly: Oh man, nobody wants to see that. Nobodys going to pay for that.
• 12:05
  Eddie Rester: One of the threads that I think we've pulled almost every season, I'm so glad that we do, is just mental health as well. I think about Warren Kinghorn at Duke talking about that, and Philip Clayton, who talked with us about suffering, John Swinton as well. We had Matt Campbell, so many folks helping us think about, how do we make sure we're pursuing healing? And I think in our world, thinking of that, making sure that we're talking about that. It's important to me. I think it's important to folks who are listening that just stay with it, stay on the journey.
• 12:50
  Eddie Rester: Grab some new tools along the way, if you can as well.
• 12:56
  Chris McAlilly: I think that this is one of the areas that I found myself in terms of intellectual curiosity, in terms of what am I gonna pick up to read about if I'm not reading for a sermon or reading for work. It's just exploring the possibility for spiritual healing, the physical, mental, emotional healing. How It works that people kind of find their way out of some of these really dark moments. And I will say these conversations all them together, it might be worth at some point, like putting them out together as a... just kind of a compilation of the wisdom through the seasons.
• 13:35
  Chris McAlilly: There's a lot through mental and emotional health. And I think what I the collective, all of this conversations together have led me to a place where I have more confidence that people can work through difficult things.
• 13:47
  Chris McAlilly: So if you really are, you know back and you're avoiding your family on Thanksgiving because you have a dysfunctional family, or their riffs or fissures or brokenness that emerge when you're with your family on a day like Thanksgiving Day, or as you move through the holidays, it might be helpful for you to just step away from some of those environments, go engage some of those episodes, and maybe find some confidence and some hope that it doesn't have to be this way forever.
• 14:20
  Eddie Rester: And one of the episodes with Matt Campbell, which was just a few weeks ago, if you want to go back and hunt that down, it was the primal five, and he just talks about some basic things that our mental health hinges on that isn't therapy. It's not doing any of that work. It's simply making sure you're taking care of sleeping in some basic activity, and being outside and eating well, so it's nothing other than just making sure you're taking care of the basic parts of your life.
• 14:54
  Chris McAlilly: I enjoyed meeting one of your friends, David McDonald, a seminary classmate. He has a radical approach to...
• 15:04
  Cody Hickman: Can't believe that was this season.
• 15:05
  Chris McAlilly: I know it was early in the season.
• 15:05
  Cody Hickman: That was great.
• 15:05
  Chris McAlilly: It was a great conversation. Eddie tell folks about David and his approach to ministry.
• 15:12
  Eddie Rester: David's one of the most creative people I've ever known. His church, West Winds.
• 15:16
  Eddie Rester: He stepped out of that just doing some consulting now. But at West Winds in Jackson, Michigan, (I) went to visit him one time. It was right after they had an Old Testament series, and it was a young church, so they brought in a couple tons of sand, put it in the worship area, including where people sat. They invited people to sit on pillows instead of in chairs, and to write prayer concerns all in the back of the chairs with ink. But what he was doing was finding creative ways to engage people in the Gospel. And I don't think where I am, bringing a couple tons of sand in, would be helpful. But how do we think creatively? And one of the things that he said was that he never uses an idea twice.
• 16:09
  Cody Hickman: That stood out to me.
• 16:10
  Chris McAlilly: I would say that feels like a bad idea, but it may be a bit of an over correction. But in general, church cultures can get stale.
• 16:17
  Chris McAlilly: They can get stagnant. And I think what the conversation reminded me of is the importance to push beyond comfort levels, especially when things get stagnant ourselves. Sometimes we have to do new things, not because anything's wrong, but to continue to lead into the creativity of God.
• 16:43
  Cody Hickman: And I think it doesn't always need a floor full of sand. I mean, a simple thing that you could do this Sunday or the next Sunday is just, rearrange the order of your service, just a little bit, tweak one thing. Move one thing from one place to another. And small things like that can make big differences, because it just... Recently, we moved the offering time to the back end of the service instead of after the first set of songs. And we did that for a few weeks, and then we ended up moving it back because I didn't like it, but we tried it. But it creates just a small shift and it lands a different way.
• 17:17
  Chris McAlilly: Eddie, what are you doing creatively these days?
• 17:19
  Eddie Rester: We actually, during the season of Advent, we're moving some things around the service to create space for more music, for more singing from the congregation because...
• 17:33
  Chris McAlilly: Is that because people don't want to hear you preach?
• 17:35
  Eddie Rester: That's exactly, they want to hear less of me, more themselves.
• 17:39
  Cody Hickman: That checks out.
• 17:41
  Eddie Rester: And so what they're doing is, just our series is based on the songs that are in the gospels around the birth of Jesus. And so making sure that people have that opportunity to sing. So that's one of the things. We're trying some different things to get people engaged. And so again, one of the things that an episode of Simon Sinek taught me, and if you don't know Simon Sinek, he's got great podcasts, go look it up. But in one of his episodes, his guest talked about organizations need to make more first pancakes. I think I've shared this with you all before.
• 18:15
  Eddie Rester: First pancakes are the things...
• 18:19
  Eddie Rester: nobody eats a first pancake.
• 18:19
  Eddie Rester: It's terrible. But if you don't make a first pancake, you don't get to a second pancake or third pancake, which are edible. And so if you're not doing something creative, if you're not trying something you're not going to get something that's edible. I'm not sure the metaphor really needs to stretch that far.
• 18:36
  Cody Hickman: I do remember one thing we did. Eddie, this was back when you were still here. I think this would be considered creative. We... you... you got a spray tan.
• 18:47
  Chris McAlilly: That was very interesting.
• 18:49
  Eddie Rester: But it didn't last, if you remember. Because I had a funeral the next day, but we raised a certain amount of money, I think for my dancing on dance, like the whole dance, like the star. I can't remember what the... anyway, I got...
• 19:04
  Chris McAlilly: But I do think so we did this fundraiser. It was make Eddie orange.
• 19:09
  Eddie Rester: Yeah, make Eddie orange.
• 19:10
  Chris McAlilly: And then, it was, like, the level of orange that Eddie would be based on the number. You went in to get it on a Thursday. We shot the video.
• 19:19
  Eddie Rester: We met the goal.
• 19:21
  Chris McAlilly: And the goal was to get Eddie to be orange on Sunday.
• 19:25
  Eddie Rester: On Sunday, yes.
• 19:26
  Chris McAlilly: But a funeral arose on Saturday.
• 19:30
  Eddie Rester: There was no way I was going to torture... Have these people who didn't know me show up and be like, why is your preacher orange?
• 19:38
  Cody Hickman: So if you're looking at fundraiser options, painting your pastor orange is always a good option.
• 19:43
  Chris McAlilly: I think... we can pay this forward to Lovers Lane. I think Eddie is willing to get spray tanned again.
• 19:50
  Chris McAlilly: Lovers Lane staff, if you're listening.
• 19:52
  Eddie Rester: You're asking why we need a festive section of this episode, and what you're doing not just to me, but to our dear listeners out there, they're saying Eddie should fire back at these morons. That's what they're saying. I can feel that on Thanksgiving Day.
• 20:12
  Chris McAlilly: And this is why we may need to return to Scripture. We did that a lot on the podcast. This... almost said semester, this season, AJ Levine, great conversation about wrestling scripture.
• 20:24
  Eddie Rester: I couldn't believe we had a chance to talk with with her. She's just a giant in the field of Biblical Studies.
• 20:32
  Eddie Rester: In such a gift to get to talk with her, and for her to get to slam me at the end of an episode when I said something about the Greek, and she reminded me.
• 20:41
  Cody Hickman: I forgot about that a lot of people just slam you.
• 20:46
  Cody Hickman: Do you have a grievance for her too later on this episode?
• 20:47
  Eddie Rester: That's right.
• 20:47
  Chris McAlilly: Zach Lambert, we talked about better ways of reading scripture. We talked to Mark Chancey about the way in which scripture operates in a public square, yeah, so how to read scripture? How to read it well? The key point, if you don't go back and listen to any of those episodes, is that everybody interprets, even the people that don't think they interpret. Everyone is interpreting the Scripture. If you know that you're interpreting, you can be faithful. You can be responsible in your interpretation. If you don't know you're interpreting, maybe you need to think a little bit more about how you're reading the Bible on a deeper level. I think it's a more mature and faithful way to read.
• 21:30
  Chris McAlilly: It's just to know that you're interpreting and that there are multiple interpretations of different texts. All of those conversations, I think, were helpful and they were well
• 21:39
  Eddie Rester: One of the episodes that I think is a more local episode for Oxford and for Mississippi, but I think is worth folks beyond Oxford and Mississippi listening to, is the episode with Robert Khayat, the former chancellor of the University of Mississippi. A beloved former leader of the university, beloved member of the community, and also a man of great wisdom and character.
• 22:09
  Chris McAlilly: This is getting into hero territory, folks that... you look particularly in Mississippi, you think about people who shape the trajectory, the state over the last fifty years. And you think about key people, he's on a short list, in my view. I mean, one of the top five leaders of his generation in terms of setting a trajectory. One of the things that has happened recently is that this narrative that Mississippi is at the bottom of every educational health outcome. You know, we're fiftieth of fifty in most markers of education. That's changed, and literacy rates have drastically improved in the state. And I see that as downstream of this emphasis that Dr. Khayat put on excellence in public education at the research university level, and the way in which that emphasis on education has continued to shape and reshape what the state thinks it can be. He is the kind of leader who empowers and encourages others to be more than they think they can be. I've experienced that, Eddie, you've experienced that from him. And yeah, what a gift to sit down in his home and to talk to just a beloved Mississippian and an incredible leader. Definitely worth your time. You can as you can tell, I love that episode.
• 23:43
  Eddie Rester: I think about the Barksdale family and their investment, not only in Ole Miss because of him, but ultimately, I would say that Dr. Khayat set the stage for what Jim Barksdale did in reading in Mississippi, which changed the test scores, which changed lives, which ultimately is changing the narrative of educational attainment in Mississippi. And I think you're right. I think you can trace a lot of things positively that happened across Mississippi to Robert Khayat.
• 24:19
  Chris McAlilly: I will say, maybe you're not a Mississippian, and maybe this is not your area. Listening to the conversation helps you to develop, the capacity to hear what it sounds like for a leader to choose affection for a place and its people as a kind of a beginning point for charting a vision for where an institution might go. And I do think institutional life, that's something that that I learned from Dr Khayat, that institutions, people flourish within the context of institutions. Another person that has taught me, has taught us, that lesson again and again and again we were so grateful to have again on the podcast, the president of Belmont University, Greg Jones. Greg is another one of our heroes and friends who is doing amazing work in the Nashville area. He was talking about kind of this trajectory of leading with hopeful imagination. Love that conversation too.
• 25:22
  Eddie Rester: He is an innovative leader. He sees what institutions can't see, but then, which is not that rare of a gift, people all the time say we should be doing this. But his capacity is not just seeing the hopeful future, but building pathways for people to do that.
• 25:38
  Eddie Rester: And sometimes that's changing culture. Sometimes it's naming culture. He had a lot to say about that. What happened here at Lovers Lane is that, after somebody listened to that, they printed out his soul acronym here and put it up in the staff kitchen.
• 25:58
  Chris McAlilly: That's cool, the soul framework, I think, is what he's calling that love, that conversation that was really good. Eddie, what about your friend? Robert St. John, that was a great conversation.
• 26:11
  Eddie Rester: Great conversation if you know somebody, or maybe you have a friend or loved one who's kind of early in recovery just coming out of addiction, Robert St. John's story is what can happen when you commit to that. When that becomes a part of who you are, that journey of recovery and how it just can impact you long term. But not just that, how you begin to turn that so that you open your life, your work, so that it enables other people to pursue healing, a new life as well. I got to know Robert when I was in Hattiesburg in the late 1990s, early 2000s, and I knew him at first because of his restaurants. And then I knew him because of some of the nonprofit work that he did. But I also got to know him as one who deeply understood what it meant to fight addiction, but also to create spaces and places where other people in that can find their way forward as well.
• 27:20
  Chris McAlilly: One of the episodes that I think that I was not... I just being honest, I was not looking forward to, because I felt like it was Eddie bringing in one of his bag of leadership tricks, this kind of generational leadership thing.
• 27:35
  Chris McAlilly: Sometimes Eddie will bring in kind of these leadership contexts. I'm like, ah, it's just another one of Eddie's thing.
• 27:42
  Eddie Rester: Let me just say, if there's ever an episode for folks who are listening that you don't like, just blame it on me.
• 27:46
  Eddie Rester: I think that's what you're getting at here.
• 27:48
  Chris McAlilly: But here's the thing, so this was probably the most surprising episode of the season to me. Multi generational organizations with Philip Gwoke, I think is the guy's name, and that was a conversation about generational research. What do you call... it's like the Gen Z stuff, the millennial stuff, people that put people in these boxes and categories. I don't even know what generation I'm a part of, but whatever the one is that resists labels. And this was really, really helpful to me because it helped me understand people that I'm working with that are ten or twenty years older than me, people I'm working with are ten or twenty years younger than me.
• 28:28
  Chris McAlilly: Fascinating conversation about how different generations engage work and the workplace expectations, etc. You guys remember that one? That was a great one?
• 28:39
  Cody Hickman: I was just about to bring that one up, and just all the really leadership specific episodes we did. So, I mean, you go back to Greg Jones, like you said, Phil Gwoke, we had Matt Miofsky and Bill Simmons. I think those are a few of the ones that were really on the nail of leadership and church leadership. And there's just really good, rich information. I had this quote from Matt Miofsky that I pulled
• 29:02
  Eddie Rester: But it's a different mindset. Matt's up that... this is one that stood out to me. Said "I was so at least a little bit of what people are looking for in work, scared of failing and I was so obsessed with not failing, but I spent very little time thinking, what happens if this thing actually works?" I just assumed most of the things I do are going to fail.
• 29:52
  Eddie Rester: understanding a little bit of how to manage someone who has grown up in a different generation than you is so significant, because if you don't give a Gen Z, say, an input, at least a sense of ownership, they're not going to show loyalty in the same way that you know Gen X, my forgotten generation, we're going to be a little bit more direct. And cynical, is not exactly the right word, but we're going to be direct about things. Tell us what you think.
• 30:27
  Eddie Rester: If you do that with Gen Z, they're going to have a
• 30:32
  Chris McAlilly: It might be helpful to have him back on again next season. I would love to talk more with him, because I think this is an area where I just don't have a ton of... I've not done much reading or research in this area, and I think I would gain a lot from a deeper conversation with him, particularly as it relates to managing. I think you could do a deep dive on different generations and management styles related to those. The other place where I think he might be interesting to talk to is every church I know is navigating, and I think it's probably nonprofit. Christian nonprofits, other nonprofits, are thinking about... We make sure that our funding models are going to be able to survive a kind of a generational change in who's going to be leading in those organizations.
• 31:27
  Chris McAlilly: We have at our church, a number of wonderful, seasoned adults who are in their 80s and 90s, who've carried the burden of responsibility and leadership for a long time, and we're stronger and better off because of their faithful leadership.
• 31:46
  Chris McAlilly: But I do think that there is going to be a need for another generation to take those responsibilities, and the conversation is going to have to be radically different, because you can't start the conversation with obligation and duty. It's going to have to be a totally different kind of conversation.
• 32:04
  Chris McAlilly: For how a thirty something might engage taking on ministry or financial leadership in a church context.
• 32:11
  Cody Hickman: I haven't considered any of that much, because I feel like as a millennial, an elder millennial, but a millennial, since I've been in the workforce, I've been like, "We're the youngest generation in the workforce," and so it's like, oh, you old people got to figure out your stuff and how you're going to work with us, and vice versa.
• 32:33
  Cody Hickman: But Gen Z is well within the workforce now and I mean, we have awesome interns here at our church. I'm sure y'all have some there too, Eddie. Our younger folks who are coming in, and I find myself... I honestly Eddie, I feel like in my heart I'm old like you.
• 32:49
  Chris McAlilly: He's old in his heart.
• 32:50
  Cody Hickman: In my heart, and so that's how I approach stuff.
• 32:52
  Cody Hickman: And you can't, I'm learning that, and that Phil Gwoke episode was really good for me.
• 32:57
  Eddie Rester: I think he would be great to have back and even thinking in terms of how in churches, if you think, well, churches doesn't matter. How do you work with volunteers? How do you understand volunteers of different generations that are just so many different applications? Cody, let me say one thing to you right quick.
• 33:17
  Eddie Rester: You built a library with dark wood, and you're hunting for a rich leather sofa or chair for that room, you might as well get one of those robes and a pipe
• 33:27
  Cody Hickman: I don't know if you think you're being mean to buddy. You are an old Englishman.
• 33:35
  Cody Hickman: me right now, but we're on the same page.
• 33:38
  Eddie Rester: No, I'm just trying to name your reality Cody. I'm not sure you fully get it, but your Facebook, Instagram posts recently, the fact that you're still posting on Facebook, it floors me. I mean, you're now of a certain generation.
• 33:56
  Cody Hickman: That's because the Facebook marketplace, that's how you get the leather chair.
• 34:00
  Eddie Rester: If you don't have a smoking jacket, I don't know who you are, you're feeling your...
• 34:06
  Chris McAlilly: He needs the pipe. He needs the English tobacco.
• 34:06
  Chris McAlilly: Here's what's gonna happen.
• 34:07
  Eddie Rester: His hair this year. He's no longer a young man.
• 34:13
  Cody Hickman: I know I'm becoming an old man. So my looks. Am I going gray pretty quick, not as quick as you Chris, but it's coming up. It's going fast. I want to be there.
• 34:24
  Cody Hickman: I have to wait until I don't have to sing anymore. So it's gonna have to wait until retirement, so I don't ruin my voice with the pipe tobacco smoke. But I want that life.
• 34:33
  Cody Hickman: That's what I want. I want to sit back with my pipe and read.
• 34:37
  Cody Hickman: Here's what I did. Here's what I did yesterday. When I got home from work. I got home, I put...
• 34:40
  Cody Hickman: so stupid... I put on, like Civil War Battlefield instrumental music, and read a book about the Civil War. That's what I did when I got home yesterday.
• 34:58
  Eddie Rester: So you skipped the entire. I mean, there's an age where men turn to World War Two. You blew right past that
• 35:04
  Cody Hickman: Yeah.
• 35:05
  Chris McAlilly: That's fantastic.
• 35:05
  Chris McAlilly: and went to the Civil War?
• 35:10
  Eddie Rester: I don't even know who you are anymore, Cody.
• 35:14
  Chris McAlilly: There's not a good segue back to any podcast episode.
• 35:17
  Cody Hickman: And that's Eddie's fault. He did that one.
• 35:19
  Chris McAlilly: I'm trying to think about how to steer us back. We can't now. We're still...
• 35:22
  Eddie Rester: Let me just say this. The episode last week was Jen Hatmaker, and we started the year with Annie Downs. We end with Jen Hatmaker. It's been an incredible season. Jen Hatmaker understands the brokenness of life in and through the church.
• 35:43
  Eddie Rester: She's still trying to figure out her place in the church, but her life experience has opened her up to, I think, how God can speak and move and allows her to lead people toward healing ultimately. And I'm thankful for her, I'm thankful she took some time with us at the end of her book tour, before she took a break.
• 36:07
  Chris McAlilly: What's funny about this is that my I told my wife, I was like, "Hey, we're gonna be interviewing Jen Hatmaker for the podcast." She was like, "You're what?" And I was like, "Yeah, we're interviewing Jen Hatmaker for the podcast." She's like, "this is a big deal. You've got to figure this out. Read the book, you know, do your education? You gotta educate yourself." And so(I) went back and did that, read her book, and it is an extraordinary book. I mean, she's another person. We're punching a little bit above our weight with that conversation.
• 36:38
  Chris McAlilly: It was really, really good. I got a... as we were sitting here. I got a message from my friend Anna. I think it's helpful to just kind of read a little bit of this.
• 36:46
  Chris McAlilly: She said, "fan girling over here of your conversation with Jen Hatmaker, I followed her for years. Devoured her book.
• 36:54
  Chris McAlilly: Particularly relate to her religious background. Love your questions about the narratives were given and developing self awareness. Her responses were amazing, particularly the part where she said, largely prioritizing certainty as a mark of faithfulness and spiritual authority." And her growing up in that, and that being a mark of obedience. And then the way in which she kind of learned, maybe thinking of faithfulness in a more expansive way. It was a great conversation. And, man, I think a good way to end the year. And it gave me, it kind of put us on a high for looking forward to next year. I'm pumped to continue doing... we are going to continue doing this, right?
• 37:37
  Eddie Rester: We're continuing to do this. Cody gets too old to turn the knob, which could be anytime.
• 37:43
  Cody Hickman: Yeah, my timeline seems to be moving quicker. I don't understand.
• 37:46
  Eddie Rester: I'm not sure what's going on with you, Cody, but I'll be in town next week.
• 37:48
  Eddie Rester: We can talk this week. Actually, when this comes out, we'll have seen each other.
• 37:55
  Cody Hickman: That'll be nice.
• 37:56
  Eddie Rester: The things that I'll say is that, Chris, that you're choosing to go to a beach instead of hanging out with me and Cody next week. I am pretty mad about that. That's part of the Festivus moment here.
• 38:15
  Chris McAlilly: Oh, we're turning into Festivus now, okay, we just changed that. Now we're in accordances.
• 38:21
  Eddie Rester: It's grievances that you're not going to be there. You've chosen to go on a trip with your family instead of hanging out with us. I mean, I'm not happy about that. Cody, I understand that the gift I gave you, you're no longer using your crocs.
• 38:37
  Cody Hickman: Who said that.
• 38:37
  Cody Hickman: That's not true.
• 38:39
  Eddie Rester: I check up on you.
• 38:41
  Cody Hickman: I don't know who you're checking with. Let me tell you. I'll tell you exactly.
• 38:43
  Cody Hickman: I'll use my crocs weekly to squash bugs. They're the bug squashers. They are also the Monday evening when I forgot to take out the trash, and it's gonna be there in the morning, and so I need to make a late night run to take the trash out.
• 38:57
  Cody Hickman: The crocs are my choice.
• 39:00
  Eddie Rester: You're not lying to me?
• 39:02
  Cody Hickman: I promise you. You can text Amy right now. She will tell you.
• 39:05
  Eddie Rester: I will step back from that grievance.
• 39:07
  Cody Hickman: Thank you.
• 39:08
  Eddie Rester: My only grievance today is with Chris.
• 39:10
  Chris McAlilly: Good. Well, I receive your grievance. You can file it in the complaint section, and I will take it on board. I am not disappointed that I will not be seeing you.
• 39:27
  Eddie Rester: Cody and I will be doing feats of strength when we get together.
• 39:31
  Chris McAlilly: Please do include that in the exclusive content section.
• 39:37
  Eddie Rester: The airing of grievances, feats of strength, we'll take care of those.
• 39:39
  Chris McAlilly: Are you going to do push ups?
• 39:42
  Eddie Rester: I can't share with you. You won't be there.
• 39:44
  Chris McAlilly: I mean, can you do push ups?
• 39:46
  Cody Hickman: That's a different question.
• 39:50
  Eddie Rester: Until I had my leg injury...
• 39:53
  Cody Hickman: Man that was so gross. We're gonna post that picture.
• 39:56
  Chris McAlilly: That was so gross. Tell people, what you did. You had an injury. I know you need this is part of your healing process.
• 40:05
  Eddie Rester: Part of my healing. It's still an issue. I went to the Ole Miss Oklahoma game to root on the Rebels. They won. After the game, we're greeting with a lot of people from Oxford. I stepped on a wet bleacher. My foot slid across that bleacher and my shin slammed into the metal bleacher in front and the adrenaline got me back to Dallas from Norman, but my legs... The entire lower leg was swollen for weeks. Part of it's still swollen four weeks later, but you know, as Audra says, "Eddie, at your age, healing comes slowly."
• 40:47
  Chris McAlilly: I think this might be a good place to get your prognostication on whether or not Lane Kiffin is going to stay with the Ole Miss Rebels or not.
• 40:57
  Cody Hickman: We may know by the time this episode comes out.
• 40:59
  Chris McAlilly: We may but I think it would be helpful to get on the record.
• 41:03
  Eddie Rester: I cannot confirm nor deny that there will be a meeting I will be a part of on Monday that will be a part of that decision. So if that meeting was or wasn't to happen, I don't want to be able to influence how that's going to play out.
• 41:18
  Chris McAlilly: So what I hear you saying is, you have no idea?
• 41:21
  Eddie Rester: I have no idea. No idea. Regardless, it's been a great run.
• 41:28
  Chris McAlilly: Yeah, it has been a great run here on The Weight season six. Been a great, amazing year.
• 41:32
  Eddie Rester: See y'all late January, early February, for the start of season seven. We need a special logo.
• 41:41
  Cody Hickman: It's gonna be a little different.
• 41:42
  Chris McAlilly: What's gonna be different?
• 41:44
  Cody Hickman: Well, we're gonna leave that kind of the other side of the veil. Yeah. So it's gonna be season seven will be a bit different. It's gonna be exciting. It's gonna be really nice. I'm excited for it.
• 41:56
  Chris McAlilly: I'm also excited.
• 41:57
  Eddie Rester: We're finally getting paid? We're getting paid finally?
• 41:59
  Chris McAlilly: That'd be nice.
• 41:59
  Chris McAlilly: We've been waiting on that. That would be awesome.
• 42:04
  Cody Hickman: Yeah, tell thanks to everybody at Lovers Lane for sponsoring all of us here.
• 42:08
  Eddie Rester: Hey, thank you all for listening. It's so great to hear from folks, and to know that folks are in this journey with us, and that we're, sometimes it feels like we're all over the board, but we know that life is all over the board, and we're just going to keep figuring out how to talk about things or at that intersection of culture and faith. I think that's important. So thank you all for being in this with us.
• 42:34
  Chris McAlilly: Peace. See you.
• 42:34
  Chris McAlilly: Happy Thanksgiving, Eddie, to you as well.
• 42:38
  Cody Hickman: Happy Thanksgiving, Eddie.
• 42:40
  Eddie Rester: And to Cody.
• 42:40
  Eddie Rester: [OUTRO] Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, the best way to help us is to like, subscribe, or leave a review.
• 42:51
  Chris McAlilly: If you would like to support this work financially, or if you have an idea for a future guest, you can go to theweightpodcast.com. [END OUTRO]