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270: The $100 Million Bet on Human Skills in the AI Era · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

0:58
For years, employees were rewarded for producing more,
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working faster, and hitting their numbers.
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And then AI arrived, and companies began rewarding employees for using it.
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Now, one of the world's largest professional services firms is putting $100 million
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behind something technology cannot manufacture on its own:
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human judgment, adaptability, collaboration,
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leadership, and exceptional client service.
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Ernst Young recently announced a new rewards program recognizing employees
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who demonstrate what it calls future-focused skills.
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The awards range from smaller in-the-moment recognition to bonuses of
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as much as $25,000 for individuals and teams creating significant impact.
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That's a major financial statement about what EY believes will matter
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in an AI-powered workplace. But here's the burning question.
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Why did it take AI for companies to realize what human skills mean
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to business value? Today I'm asking our Chief Revolution Officer John DiJulius about
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why the so-called soft skills may now be the hardest skills to replace,
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what EY's announcement tells us about the future of employee
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and customer experience, and how leaders can begin rewarding
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the behaviors they claim to value.
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Welcome back, listeners, to the Customer Service Revolution.
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John how was your labor day?
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It great, beautiful weather in Cleveland.
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Have you been in Cleveland in a while?
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have you?
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I
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was there for almost twenty four hours.
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Not quite.
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You've been all over the world,
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literally.
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Yeah, yeah. A lot of a lot of travelling the past couple of weeks and yeah.
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But
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Yeah. So
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the weather's been great. We've had a great summer.
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it was didn't get overly hot for too long.
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So and then we're I think we're entering the best time of year for yeah.
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Is that
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your your season? Yeah, you know
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I don't know. I mean,
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I I like spring because you know,
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baseball and our summers are so great,
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but man, fall's hard to beat. Just don't like what comes after.
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Yeah, yeah. I you know, I actually don't like going away this time of year and it's
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Yeah.
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just the way timing worked out with the wedding,
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and some different things. But I love being in Cleveland this time of year.
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I wish I wish I was there.
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Well hopefully you'll be back soon.
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All right.
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Yes, I hope so. all right, so John,
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when you first saw the headline that EY was investing a hundred million
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in bonuses for human skills, what was your immediate reaction?
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surprised i i in a way, I I think it's it's the pendulum swinging back,
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so to speak. I I I I've started to see a lot more of this,
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maybe not to the extent of what EI is doing E EY is doing,
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but a lot more companies are investing in you know,
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everyone has a different terminology for it.
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Soft skills, human skills, we call it service aptitude skills,
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which has always been critical to you know,
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both sides of the coin, technical and and you know,
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the the soft human service aptitude skills.
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but they've always been neglected.
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But I think there's some things that have really pushed the envelope,
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you know.
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But I'll answer that as you ask.
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So looking at rewarding employees for human skills,
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what does that signal to you about the future of business?
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Well that the more automated we become,
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the more human we have to become.
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technol no one's ever loyal to a brand because of technology.
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And technology any level, you know,
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back in the Stone Age, back in,
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you know, manufacturing, back in sharecropping or you know,
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all that to
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you know, the you know, the internet,
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social media, you know, all the things that have you know,
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evolved our world and business,
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iPhones, apps and now AI, that's the easiest thing to replicate.
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Th th you do not have a competitive advantage for long.
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you know, as soon as someone comes out,
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I mean I always go back to the silly comparison of an Uber app.
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and and Lyft app. I mean they're identical.
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They do the exact same thing. And I don't,
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you know, other than maybe Uber at one time had more cars,
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right? the app, the technology itself wasn't,
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you know, a a a competitive advantage.
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OpenAI was you know the the first and the leader and then now supposedly
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and you might know this better than I do Claude
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has leapfrogged it but now open AI is you know coming back so so whatever
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AI tool you use that that you incorporate it it's not gonna
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it may benefit you from from a cost savings but but then now there's some disputing
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that Microsoft three companies is really interesting three companies Uber Microsoft
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and Nvidia have come out and say they've
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Paused or are cutting their AI investment because it's actually costing more
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than it was to have humans. Two of them are AI companies,
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Nvidia and Microsoft. That's bizarre.
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So there's AI fatigue, there's AI overhype.
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and I love AI. I think AI is the coolest thing as long as we balance it.
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so when I think of things with,
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you know, human skills over AI,
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empathy is a big part of that.
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Companies have discussed empathy,
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communication, judgment, and adaptability for decades.
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Why did it take the rise of AI for leaders to recognize their financial value?
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I don't know if it it truly is just AI.
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It's also like I I I think this w we were headed there anyway,
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without AI, because of while all generations,
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even old people like you know,
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ourselves, you know, w we all have a de ~
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Did you just call me old?
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Us. I called us old. the we've all had a decline in in people skills over
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the last 20 years. but then there's the 30 and under at no fault of their
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own are relationship disadvantaged.
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And you know, they they don't ask people out in in in in person.
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They have telophobia.
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Right. I mean, they just they just have n you know,
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they w they they're working from home,
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they went to school from home,
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they're working from home, their first jobs out of school,
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which is all critical life skills that they weren't forced to get that that previous
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generations were. And they only d grew up in a digital world.
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you know, so all that has has hurt them and their ability.
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And so then then you add AI to it,
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and customers are are really taking the brunt of automation and and self-service.
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And when they do get a human being,
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that human being isn't prepared from life experiences and and and
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you know just overall training to have empathy,
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curiosity, problem solving, making a brilliant comeback.
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you know, all those things that are are what we deem as the
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ten service aptitude skills that people need to have.
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So we call them service aptitude skills and soft skills is a big term used.
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Do you think in any way we're diminishing these capabilities by calling them soft
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skills? And what should businesses call them instead?
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
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a hundred percent. That's why we call them service aptitude skills.
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so you know, I I I've seen human skills become more prevalent,
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which is kind of weird human skills,
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but I I I guess I guess they're all it but it all goes back.
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It it's always been a secondary thought for most businesses,
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even like I said, long before this digital.
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automated world that that we've evolved into.
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And it goes back to, you know,
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I I I always use this example.
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If you were to hire my son Bo,
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he's he's a senior at John Carroll to be in a customer facing position,
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how much training are you going to give him,
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you know, and and and and and and people say 400 hours,
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4,000 hours, or I'm sorry, 40 hours,
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400 hours, four four thousand hours.
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Okay, great. Of that
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How much is technical processes,
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you know, you know, filling out,
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placing the order, you know, all that,
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learning how to prepare the the you know the menu and in in the in the restaurant,
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you know, cooking, you know, all that,
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all the technical book the appointment,
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whatever whatever business we're talking about,
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versus service aptitude skills,
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building a rapport, showing empathy.
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And and usually it's like ninety-eight percent technical and
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two percent service aptitude skills in normal businesses.
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Now the the the great companies,
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you know, make it, you know, it it may not be fifty fifty,
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but they make it a significant portion that you have to test out of.
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Just like you'd never throw a someone on a you know,
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culinary school, you'd never let them just start cooking without obviously testing
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that they can
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maintain the you know the the technical aspect or you'd never you know hopefully
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let a a someone who just graduated with accounting degree start you know
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you know becoming a you know accountant for you know your best clients without
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making sure that they were technically trained that that service aptitude
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is just as important.
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Why do you think human skills could become more,
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not less, important as AI handles more routine work?
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Well, you know, back to my earlier quote,
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no no one's li can you know, losses a brand,
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l grieves a brand that moves away or goes out of business because
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of their technical aspect. I i it i it's about an emotional,
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compelling reason to wanna do business.
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So it's the Chick fil A's and and
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Amazons and and and here's a great example,
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an Apple, whatever we do, a lot of our workshops start with an exercise
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for the attendees, leaders. what is a brand you can't live without and why?
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And other than their own mom and pops,
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like you have a bakery, right?
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Or something that's near you, right?
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Other than then the little mom and pops that no one's ever heard of.
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that you know, a lot of people have.
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the same answers are always the same.
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Always Amazon, always Apple. I'm not saying everyone,
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but they're always, you know, the the answers.
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Tar Target. back in the day it was Harley Davidson,
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Lululemon, Tesla. you know, and then and there's several more.
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Now
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The other cool thing, Fortune just came out with their you know,
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top companies as revenue. And Amazon's number one.
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First time in thirteen years, Walmart's been replaced.
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And Apple's number four. So two of the top four are w those brands.
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Google Alphabet is in there, Walmart is still up there,
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and I forget, you know, the the the you know th I I don't know.
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can't remember off the top of my head the rest of the list.
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But two of the top four are Amazon and Apple.
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There's a reason, right? they're they're obsessed.
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And then you know Steve Job, I'm sorry,
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Jeff Bezos you know thing he said from the moment he started Amazon is
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we are gonna be the most customer obsessed company in the world.
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And you know they they they've come close if they haven't you know achieved that
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already. So
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the companies that, you know, are obsessed with the customer experience
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a and really are, they they've always cared about the soft skills,
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human skills, service aptitude skills that you know,
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that we're referring to.
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Where do you think going forward that human judgment and empathy
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are gonna matter most?
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Well, you know, again you're gonna,
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you know, get the same answers.
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right or wrong mo most of the times right from AI.
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but now you have to you know put your your your your expertise
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behind it and you know how to communicate that and what that means for the client.
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You know that answer, you know well the answer is the same.
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It doesn't mean the same thing t for every business.
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There's nuances. And so you want
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you know, your account executives,
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your salespeople, you know, whoever your your customer facing employees are,
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even doctors and nurses to have a human side to that,
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to be able to, you know, tell them what that means,
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right? It and you know, it it was always in the,
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you know, back in the day you'd have the doctor come and tell you what's wrong with
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you, but it made no sense to you.
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It's kind of what it is in almost all industry,
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the technical jargons.
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all the same, but the laymans,
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you know, the customer, client,
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guests don't necessarily know what that really means to them.
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And so understanding how to deliver it and understanding what the next steps
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are and how to solve it, weaponize it,
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take advantage of it, that's where,
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you know, the human being comes in.
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Yeah, and where the investment in that should be too.
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So if a company's investing in AI automation or digital transformation
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It's really important that they're investing just as intentionally
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in the people that are using it.
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And listeners, remember, this is the lane that we're in.
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So the DiJulius Group helps organizations build customer service cultures where
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employees have the standards skills and confidence to create those consistent
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experiences, even as technology and customer experiences change
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or customer expectations change.
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Learn more about what we do at our website,
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the DiJuliusgroup.com.
15:04
And make sure you check out the Customer Experience Executive Academy.
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This is a great, a great course that you can send leaders to
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to help them understand, map, design,
15:16
and really create the customer experience that you want to deliver.
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All right, John, many organizations say that they value teamwork,
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empathy, and exceptional customer service.
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But then they reward speed, volume,
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and efficiency. What happens when the behaviors a company praises
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are different from the ones it pays for?
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Well, I mean I obviously get unintended consequences.
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It it it's, you know, do what I say not as what I do.
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there's another report that just came out,
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or or you know, the top one hundred companies to work for.
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and the three co qualities that the the the the top one hundred companies
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ha by fortune had
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was you know not as much AI as you know you know number one,
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they listen to their people more attentively than than most.
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Number two, they're pouring resources into helping employees build
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AI relevant skills and careers which incl
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encompasses, you know, the the human skills,
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the service after skills. And number three,
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despite work becoming increasingly more digital and constant,
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they are leaning harder into simple human perks,
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i.e., giving employees more room to spend time with and care for
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the people who matter the most to them.
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So, you know, in a moment defined by algorithms and AI agents,
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it's a reminder that the most
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Highly rated workplaces are built on something surprisingly traditional,
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genuinely showing up for the people behind the job the job titles.
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Yeah.
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Love that.
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what are ways that leaders can recognize empathy,
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leadership, collaboration, and judgment based on observable behavior,
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measurable impact, not just personality or popularity?
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So you y y you don't have to have charisma to be a rock star,
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right? you know, it it it's a it's a it's a a skill.
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it's it it it it it can benefit,
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but you know, there's there's plenty of introverts that are great
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at customer experience. They're they they could even be better because they're
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not interrupting, they're listening more.
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versus the outgoing charismatic people tend to you know suffer in in those areas.
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the one thing I you know I I'm I'm questioning or I haven't seen yet in
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a lot of these reports, even the EY,
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is they're rewarding and bonuses bonusing employees for you know doing getting this
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skill set. But I think
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Every company has to, if they if if they want to,
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you know, be the best at at what they do and they have to hire based
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on a certain amount of these skills.
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we say there's 10 service aptitude skills.
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Six of them can be trained. if you find someone,
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you know, with any of those six,
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great, you're ahead of it. and four of them,
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all the training in the world isn't gonna move the needle.
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Right. So so that's what your your hiring has to catch is those four.
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But everyone's onboarding, ever boarding,
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continuous companies now have to have those service aptitude skills
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in their training, because people aren't getting them at home growing up in school.
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like we we discussed and you know you're gonna have a generation
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of relationship disadvantaged people at no fault of their own.
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It's no fault of the I'm not dissing and as we found out and many
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of our client clients that we work with,
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those thirty and under can be better than the previous generations once they're
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taught. it's amazing. You know,
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who's working at Chick-fil-A, you know,
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who you know who's working a lot of these,
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you know
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customer facing positions are young people who are doing great.
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And I, you know, I I I don't think it's just about the hiring.
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I think it's about the training they're giving them.
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I don't know if I answered your question.
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You know, I'd really be
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I'd really be curious to see schools in future curriculums what they're thinking
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about now because of the AI and because of the relationship disadvantaged situations
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that we've put the younger generation into,
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what they're doing to correct that in schools.
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Our consulting clients
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are asking more of it. on the,
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you know, both from the hiring,
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both from onboarding orientation and continuous.
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our customer experience Executive Academy now teaches it.
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And our Q2 live stream,
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I think it was June or July, was all about training your employees.
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To have to increase these service aptitudes.
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Because let me give them really quick.
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so there's 10 empathy. Number two is friendly,
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kind, and caring. Number three is curiosity,
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number four is ability to make a connection,
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build a rapport. number five is happy,
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positive, optimistic. Number six is the ability to be a great listener.
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Seven, genuinely like others. Eight,
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diffusing an upset customer and making a brilliant comeback.
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Nine is enthusiasm, ten is energy slash charisma.
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And then, you know, of those, the four that you you want
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to find people with is the the friendly,
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kind, and caring, happy, positive,
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optimistic, genuinely like others,
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and the enthusiasm. You know, there's not I I I don't know how much you
20:46
can move the needle on that. But the others,
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like a lot of times when I ask audiences.
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They are, you know, which ones can't be trained.
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the number one answer I probably get is empathy.
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And I know for a fact, both as a professional that's been doing this,
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but you know, myself, I I didn't have a empathy when I was younger.
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Like, you know, I it's to me, I think it's a learned skill.
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you know, I think you you might have to go through life experiences
21:13
to realize that you know.
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Things aren't as easy as they appear.
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So when it comes to empathy, let's use that,
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and you've taught this through in whatever you've created with your consulting
21:27
clients. What are ways organizations can turn qualities like empathy into specific
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behaviors that managers can teach,
21:35
coach, and reinforce? And how can you do it without scripting the humanity
21:39
out of the interaction?
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Yeah.
21:42
So first off, it you know, our biggest thing is we start with a day in the life
21:45
of a customer and and and and every company has multiple personas,
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right? It's not one customer. You know,
21:54
you you you you you might have a half a dozen different types of customers,
21:59
regulars or or you know, avatars and you know,
22:03
they're they're all coming for different reasons.
22:05
Some, if you're, you know, high end,
22:07
you know.
22:08
Pricing is the least of their concerns.
22:11
and then the opposite end of the spectrum,
22:12
there's people that can't afford you regularly.
22:15
So they save up for that once a quarter,
22:18
once a year, you know, dining out or splurging or or or whatever.
22:24
And so, you know, those are two realistic,
22:26
or it might be a wedding or you know,
22:28
whatever it is, a once-in-a-while thing to do.
22:30
Those are two kind of regular customers.
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regular type of customers with totally different needs
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and expectations and pain and and it's so so teaching who they are
22:44
and what they're going through and that you never know.
22:46
because the other big common denominator thro in almost every business
22:52
is the customer-faced employee is not the customer demographically age-wise.
22:57
So there's a disconnect
22:59
you know, between a twenty-four year old who's serving a a,
23:03
you know, fifty year old, you know,
23:05
and and it doesn't mean we change who we hire,
23:07
but we gotta get to have them get to understand what's going on.
23:10
So some some k metrics are you know,
23:14
the the ability to diffuse, you know,
23:16
the percentage of calls or returns or,
23:20
you know, complaints, how well are they being diffused and
23:25
a brilliant comebacks made versus
23:27
it gets escalated to corporate.
23:29
And, you know, it's now it's, you know,
23:32
a a a one-star review on Yelp,
23:35
Facebook, you know, wherever the the the place that they put you know,
23:39
those spinning out of control.
23:41
and then even, you know, the service avoidance,
23:43
so it doesn't get that far. it it can come from empathy.
23:47
You know, so so, you know, having great empathy.
23:50
Empathy is a superpower that can't be
23:53
visited and trained enough.
23:55
Yeah, Day in the Life is my is such a great way to to teach empathy.
24:00
We've seen so many people doing some.
24:00
Well, and so let's explain it.
24:02
And then maybe you could put
24:02
go ahead.
24:03
a link to it. Sorry. of you know,
24:06
we almost all our consulting clients have created a day in the life
24:10
of a customer video which takes you on that journey of highs and lows and you know,
24:15
gut punches and high five moments and just,
24:19
you know, dealing with chaos and stress.
24:23
you know, and why
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being present in that moment and your professional expertise is critical
24:29
to the trajectory of their day.
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I will put links, listeners, there will be links in the show notes about
24:36
day in the life, so that you can read more and learn more about that.
24:41
John, is that something that's covered in the academy classes as well?
24:45
Do they create day in the life videos?
24:47
And they're
24:47
We teach them how.
24:50
you know, I think maybe fifty percent of our students are consulting clients
24:56
as well, so they definitely get it done.
24:58
And then the the the ones that are students of the customer experience executive
25:02
academy that aren't, we teach them and you know,
25:05
give them the resources on how,
25:07
but that's one of the days of the twelve days they come over a course
25:10
of twelve months.
25:12
that is almost a day in itself teaching them how to do one for
25:16
the external customer and one for the internal customer,
25:19
their employees. Yeah.
25:20
Well, for the internals well. Okay,
25:21
great.
25:22
Great. All right. So Ernst and Young has committed $100 million,
25:26
but let's face it, most companies don't need that kind of budget and don't have that
25:31
kind of budget to begin with. What should a CEO do in the next 30 days to identify,
25:37
develop, measure, and reward the human skills that will really make
25:41
a difference in their organization?
25:43
Yeah,
25:44
you know, take our list of the ten service aptitude skills and make sure you're
25:49
interviewing and hiring, you know,
25:52
f for the four that, you know,
25:54
can't be trained r as easily. And then make sure that your onboarding
25:59
and ever boarding continuously helps train people on,
26:04
you know, the the six.
26:06
empathy, curiosity, ability to make a connection,
26:09
build a rapport, being a great listener,
26:12
diffusing upset customer and the the you know energy you bring to
26:16
to the interaction and that you need to have that as part of training
26:22
you know again onboarding and and continuously revisiting
26:27
it and celebrating you know the people who do it very very well
26:30
and what they're doing
26:32
And coaching the ones that there's gaps.
26:35
all right, so the listeners also put in the show notes the
26:38
ten service aptitude skills that John just mentioned,
26:41
so we'll list those out.
26:41
And the live stream
26:43
to the service apt to all this in in June or July.
26:47
Okay,
26:48
and listeners, if you're not already a member of the Experience Revolution
26:52
to get access to the live stream,
26:54
it's not too late to sign up for that.
26:56
And as when you sign up to become a member of the Experience Revolution,
27:01
you don't just get the live streams as they happen,
27:04
but you get the bank of everything that has gone past.
27:07
So you would get that episode
27:10
in the library to play. John, do the interview questions that The DiJulius Group
27:14
has created, do those go over the service aptitude skills so that
27:19
you can help identify the questions?
27:19
Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
27:21
It's it's
27:21
it's you know, to recognize who has the potential to be a customer experience rock
27:27
star. And so yeah, it it it breaks each one of those down to see where they're at,
27:33
but but you know, most importantly,
27:35
to to judge the the four th of the things that,
27:39
you know
27:39
c can't necessarily be taught.
27:41
so you're not spinning your wheels and having someone and it doesn't have
27:45
to be a customer facing employee,
27:47
right? Because this applies to working with each other.
27:49
And, you know, you could be a back office,
27:51
home office, support person, marketing HR that you never come in contact with
27:57
the external customer client. But if you're not a happy person,
28:02
if you're not a kind person, if you don't have just,
28:05
you know, enthusiasm.
28:07
you know, for you know, what you do or or or anything,
28:10
any type of if you have enthusiasm,
28:12
I'm fine that we can, you know,
28:14
get it towards your job. But you just might that's why one of the
28:17
qu my favorite questions is, you know,
28:20
in that interview thing, is to ask,
28:22
you know, on your days off free time,
28:24
holiday, whatever, w you know,
28:26
vacation, what's your most favorite thing to do?
28:29
And you know, when someone's talking about,
28:31
you know, running, you know,
28:34
their dogs, their kids, coach,
28:37
whatever their thing is due. But they don't get excited about that.
28:40
they're not gonna show enthusiasm for their job or anything.
28:43
There's no baseline there. So,
28:45
you know, that's what it does.
28:46
The the the interview questions you know help you filter out the ones that
28:51
are very low scoring in those four categories that are much harder
28:55
to teach and train.
28:58
Alright, so listeners, I'm gonna put a link for the interview questions
29:01
in the show notes as well so that you can download those if you're interested.
29:04
and also I'm gonna put a link to the Employee Experience Revolution book because
29:08
I think there's a lot in there that pertains to this episode as well.
29:13
So we'll put a link to the book in if you'd like to check that out.
29:17
So Ernst Young's announcement isn't proof that technology
29:20
is becoming less important. It's just proof that technology alone
29:24
is not the differentiator. AI can help employees work faster,
29:28
it provides information, identify patterns,
29:30
and automates routine tasks in a great way.
29:34
But customer loyalty is still one in moments requiring judgment,
29:38
trust, empathy, creativity, and personal responsibility.
29:42
Companies need to audit what they hire for,
29:44
what they
29:45
train what they measure and what they reward because if leaders
29:49
say human skills matter but only reward efficiency employees already know which
29:54
message to believe thanks listeners for joining us again on this episode
29:58
of the Customer Service Revolution.
30:01
If this episode made you reconsider how your organization develops
30:04
and rewards human skills share it with a leader.
30:07
Share it with somebody responsible for customer experience employee experience
30:11
or AI transformation.
30:12
You can find more episodes of the Customer Service Revolution wherever
30:16
you listen to podcasts or visit thedijuliusgroup.com Until next time,
30:21
remember technology may change how service is delivered,
30:24
but humanity determines how that service is experienced.
30:28
Thanks so much, John.
30:30
Thank you,
30:31
Denise. Thank you, revolutionaries.