Latest / CLEAR Performance Coaching / Podcast #3: What Coaches Do

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Podcast #3: What Coaches Do · CLEAR Performance Coaching

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Lead in the real world moment by moment choice by choice.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is where leadership meets performance crowd practical.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you can step in and show up on purpose every day.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Sam Bracken.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_06: I'm Kent Vaughn.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_05: And we're here for episode three of Clear Performance Coaching.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_05: I think we've got a couple of great podcasts coming up where we're really going to dive into the coaching process that we've designed.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_05: So in this episode, we're going to really get into what coaches do.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_05: As a coach, a lot of times we think our job is one thing without any formal training or experience or actually immersion in coaching.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_05: But what coaches do really could be something different.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_05: So we wanted to land what that is.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_05: It's one thing to believe in coaching.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's another thing to know what coaches actually do in real conversations with real people under pressure.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_05: And Sam, you do this all day long.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_05: Tell us a little bit about what coaches actually do.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: When you look at sports teams and they have a dismal year, we just had it yesterday after a March Madness, you know, debacles in on some programs, the head coach of North Carolina was fired, right?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because the team did not meet expectation, right?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So coaches are responsible for results, right?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And every employee is responsible for results.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's great that we can kumbaya and we can support people and help them on their journey.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're working for money, there's usually some expectation to produce results to receive a paycheck, right?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing I like to tell people is that a good coach helps people understand their responsibility to produce results first and foremost in an ethical, viable, honest way.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Coaches understand this and they have an edge around performance.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Kent?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: What would you add to that?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_06: It reminds me, I think about athletic coaching, which is very different than business coaching.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_06: Athletic coaching, we tell them what to do.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_06: Business coaching, we're trying to get it out of them, right?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_06: We need to set that tone that it's not I'm giving advice and I need to know all the answers.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_06: That's mentorship, right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_06: This is coaching.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_06: But I do remember as a kid moving to Alabama when I was 13 and watching Coach R.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_06: Bryant's team in the University of Alabama lose a game.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_06: At the end of the game, he said, I'd let the boys down.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't prepare them off.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_06: That's fascinating.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_06: And the next week they won.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_06: I thought, I wonder what he'll say this week.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_06: And the next week he said, Wow, the boys did great.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_06: They did such an awesome job.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_06: They prepared themselves well and they executed incredibly well on the field.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm so proud of them.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_06: And I thought to myself, wow, he takes ownership when it doesn't go well.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_06: And then when it does go well, it's not about him, it's about them.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_06: And to me, that's really what coaching is about.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_06: It's about them.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's so critical, Kent.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: One of the key components of being a great coach is to be on the agenda of building other people to help other people.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really hard to be a good performance coach if you have a giant ego.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: You have to check it at the door.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_05: It sounds like both of you are saying if coaching is not actually changing performance or if it's not increasing engagement or culture, it's almost just a conversation, but not yet quite coaching.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_05: Do you ever find like you're in those conversations and then you got to step back and say, hold on, I'm actually here to impact something.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_05: So let's get back into that coaching conversation.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of the hard things about coaching is you're going to want to tell people what to do.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to want to say, I've been there, done that.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what you need to do.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, coaches understand this because of experience, right?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've all been, I don't know, there's a there's probably over a hundred years of collective leadership expertise between the three of us.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we most of the time know exactly what people should do.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: But as a good coach, we can't tell them what to do.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we tell them what to do and they go do it and fail, who are they gonna blame when they fail?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna blame me, right?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's good for us to be on their agenda and for them to be doing what they know to be for them to be responsible for their own results with their own thinking and their own insights.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is all this is a dynamic that we're gonna teach you how to do this, but it doesn't come naturally.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Kent, what do you think?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_06: It makes me think about I've got an executive that I'm coaching with one of the large auto manufacturers, and I meet with them every month in person.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_06: And I met with them again yesterday.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_06: The first time I met with them, I knew they had some specific issues.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_06: I was asked by the CEO to coach this individual because they wanted to save them, but they were really digging a hole for themselves that wasn't going well.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_06: And the first time I met with them, they kept pointing out, it's everyone else, it's everyone else, it's not me.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_06: And I just let them go on and on and on.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_06: And then they were complaining about some other executives who skirted around them.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, Why do you suppose they did that?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_06: And then they finally came to grips with, oh, I guess they didn't come to me because they were afraid of the way I'd react and what I would do and so on and so forth.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_06: So I couldn't tell them, even though I knew I had to wait for them to get to it on their own by continuing to ask questions.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_06: It's one of the things Sam has taught Rick and I so well as our business partner, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_06: Keep asking questions, be caring, be curious.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_06: It's a big part of this what coaches do, right?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_06: So I love that idea.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_06: And it's not natural because as a leader, you're expected to have the answers.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_06: And we're so used to answering questions and solving problems all day that you get in a coaching opportunity, you forget, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_06: This isn't me answering questions and solving problems.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_06: This is helping me come, help them come to the answer.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_06: And it's so counterintuitive for leaders to do that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_06: We're so used to solving problems and asking questions.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_06: And when you get in this mode, it's the flip of that, it's the reverse of that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_06: And it's really hard to do initially.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'd agree.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_05: I've had some great coaches in my life too, and what I really appreciated is I was comfortable in this zone, and yet they were great at asking questions that pushed my thinking outside of that comfort zone, which really helped unleash some more of my potential.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, I think the best coaches I've had recognize the potential in me way more than I saw it in myself.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is so true.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because we believe here at Clear Performance Coaching that everybody has a superpower and that everybody has a unique set of gifts and talent that oftentimes is not understood or recognized.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And one of one of the one of the one of the jobs of a great coach is to help people understand what they're really, really good at, line it up with what they love to do, and how to leverage that for their success in producing great results.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And not everybody understands their superpower or what they're good at.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have curiosity and you're just curious about what people love and what their talents are at and what they're good at, what happens is it floats up.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: This idea of what their superpower is, it floats up.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can get people to live in the space of where they're really good at, it makes all the difference.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: The research tells us that we've always been taught to have balance, right?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you suck at one thing, get better at it, you know.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And these days, and it's good to be competent, right?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you're gonna get far further in your life if you focus on using your superpower, getting better at that, because that's what's gonna make you exceptional at one thing.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that that exceptionalness, right?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: That ability to be exceptional at really critical things is what makes you have a more successful career.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not natural.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Again, like Ken said, it's a little different, it's counterintuitive.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I'm saying?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_06: I look at this card category.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_06: The second card is recognized potential, which is exactly what Sam is talking about, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_06: Because everybody does have potential and ability in different areas.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_06: I was having a conversation with one of my sons who finished at the top of his class at a great private university and he was on a full ride scholarship, a mechanical engineer in the tech space, and so he's done all the things, right?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_06: His mother, my wife, does a business degree, but isn't, doesn't operate at that level.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_06: And but she has tremendous EQ, emotional quotient.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_06: He has great IQ.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_06: He's not so good at the EQ part.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, here's the problem.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_06: So many times in school, you get the sense that IQ wins.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_06: Fact is, we hire in businesses for IQ and for competency.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_06: But what do we fire for?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_06: We fire for EQ and the way people work together, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_06: That's what we fire for.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_06: You're not getting results, but you're also not working well with us, et cetera.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_06: And so recognizing everybody has different potential and they build to the bring the collective together to help us be successful.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_06: So many times when you're coaching someone, they're in a place where they haven't been successful or they've had some struggles, and you're trying to help bring them back, you know, bounce bounce back, or as Sam in his newest book says, bounce forward from failure.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_06: I love that idea that when people are stuck, how to help them get unstuck, which is actually one of the categories of these cars, how to help people get unstuck.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_06: It's one of the most popular categories.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_06: So you got to kind of rebuild this potential and this sense that yes, I have value, I have worth, I can do something.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_06: I've had some failures here, but I can get back, I can not bounce back, but actually bounce forward from this.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_06: So I love this idea that Sam's talking about, this idea of potential and ability and help recognize that in individuals and help them see it in themselves again and not lose sight of it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, every great coach has the ability to help people transform their failures into great learning experiences so that they can spring forward or they can make progress, the stumbling blocks turning into stepping stones.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: But that talent of understanding that failure can give you learning is where we make progress.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is the great misnomer of business is that when you go to MBA school, you learn accounting, financial accounting, managerial accounting, you learn economics, you learn marketing, you learn distribution, you learn statistics, you learn all these things.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But what you don't learn is the people skills that help you lead and inspire people.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the key jobs of a coach is to help people understand when you fail, everyone's going to fail.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's what you do after the failure, the lessons you learn, how you respond to that failure is the most powerful thing about you.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Learning and adjusting from failure is a critical part of the process of improving performance.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's funny when I listen to you both, and I do lots in statistics in organizations.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: One of the stats that I love is if you look at a pie chart and when leaders say the reason their employees have left, overwhelmingly, like three-quarters of the time, the reason is they left for more money.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_05: But when you look at the same pie chart, why employees actually leave, overwhelmingly, three-quarters, it's because of their leaders, right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_05: It's exactly what you're talking about.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_05: Most employees leave companies because of the leader that they've had, who's not invested, who's not developed, who doesn't see or recognize their potential.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I got to tell you something.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had an insight yesterday.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's very cool.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I got to share.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I got to share it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is really our third point of this podcast is this idea of being caring, curious, and connected.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to help our listeners change the lens on how they look at things, on how they look at their people.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Change the lens for a minute.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes we're really busy.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're busy, busy, busy.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: We got stuff to do, right?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: We got stuff to do.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we always we're concerned about people.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: We think they're a valuable, the human resource is the most valuable of all resources, and we're concerned about them.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we do things like, well, how you doing?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And people say, I'm fine.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing okay.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fine.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Default answer.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you go back to busy.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guess what?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: We got to stop doing that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: We got to stop doing that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: We got to show curiosity around, well, how you doing?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm just I'm doing fine.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, tell me something you're looking forward to today.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me something you're dreading today.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, what you do is you open this door of curiosity.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's the thing that's important.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you trying to be curious on how people feel?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I was trying to teach yesterday in my coaching sessions.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: The reason you want to know how people feel, right?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to use some skill to get to how they feel.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be, they need to trust you, they need to know you're you have nothing but good intention, is because you're trying to uncover what they're thinking.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you can understand what they're thinking, then you can support good thinking and correct ignorant thinking to get them to feel good about doing things to move forward.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we we care about people and we're curious about them because we want to understand where their mindset is.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we understand where their thinking is and their mindset is, then here's the cool thing.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then we can see from their perspective, which is what we know as empathy.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then you can have empathy.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And empathy opens the door and pushes you through super fast to get connected.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't lead or coach anybody without connection.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the lens that I'm going to throw out as a challenge today is be more than curious, be caring and curious, and don't settle for I'm okay.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm great.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why are you great?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, tell me, tell me what's going on to get to know people and then to understand the way they think.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you understand the way they think, it makes all the difference.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'll tell you something like when my kids were little, we took karate, like crazy old school karate, right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned how to break two by fours with the board.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things they my our karate instructor taught us, which I love because it was close to football and had a little bit of violence in it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, yeah, this is cool, and let's do this.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And but what we learned was when you're striking something, and if you want to break a board, you got to strike through.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: You got to think, I'm striking through the two by four, yeah, right.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not just hitting the two by four.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the mindset of how you approached the striking of the two by four, the mindset gave you success or failure, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because we know that the mindset creates the feelings and that acts as fuel to do the action, and the actions drive the outcome.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Versus if you have a poor mindset, you don't, you never strike through the board because you never hit through it and you fail, right?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you have poor, you have like, well, I'm a failure.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't do it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I disappointed.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this idea of mindset really can instruct people to have a much better, more robust performance at work and at home and in every aspect of the life.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: It had me think of just two things.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_05: The first thing, Esther Perrell is one of my favorite psychologists, I'd say modern today.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_05: But she talks about what you said, Sam, which is the question after the question, right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_05: The how are you doing is the kind of the first question.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's the gateway, it's the entry.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: And most people stop there.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_05: But true connection is the question after the question, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_05: And the second thing I thought of was I had an actual interaction like that one time with the guy that I knew, and I knew him casually.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_05: But it was one of those things when you're passing by, how are you doing?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_05: Good, how are you doing good?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_05: And then you keep moving on.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_05: But there was one day, and there was just something about his countenance.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: I said, you know, I don't know, but I've recognized that look in myself in the mirror before.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: And I knew at the time that I wasn't doing good.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_05: So if you ever want to talk, I'm just here to talk with you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_05: So I had that, I recognized him, I cared enough about him that I wanted to know more.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_05: I expressed curiosity, which led to that connection piece.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_05: And then we were able to develop actually a good, authentic relationship out of that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the way we'd say it here at Clear Performance Coaching is you listen with all your senses beyond the words.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: You listen with your ears, your eyes, your emotions, and you get a sense of how people are feeling.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you can use curiosity to get that dialed in to understand what their mindset is, what they're going through and they're thinking, right?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on in their mindset?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Kent, what do you think?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_06: Well, you know what I love about all of this is it builds to the next step, which is really important.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_06: We're caring and curious, and we're now connected.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_06: So now we can talk about business outcomes or organizational outcomes.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_06: What are the goals we want to focus on?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_06: What are the actions that they're going to take to achieve those goals or how to solve problems?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_06: So either one of those things, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_06: And so you've now created this relationship where you can now get really very tactical about now, what are we doing?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_06: What is the problem you need to solve or what's the result we need to achieve?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_06: And so we use that not to just be kumbaya and everything's wonderful, everything's great, which by the way is wonderful, but it's to get to where we all need to be, which is everyone's in a job to get results.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_06: Now, the results are all kinds of things.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_06: Results maybe that I'm supposed to clean up this area, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe that I'm supposed to sell more of this, maybe I'm supposed to make more of this.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_06: It really doesn't matter.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_06: But we're using this caring and connection and this curiosity to help us all do better.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_06: Because frankly, no one wants to be on a losing team.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_06: Sam loves to say, and I love it, I quoted yesterday.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_06: Sam says, everyone wants to be a valued member of a winning team, making a distinct contribution.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_06: And so we're doing all of this work to create relationships and friends and connections so that we can do better and get better results.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_06: And then people are excited to get up.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_06: They're excited to go to work, they're excited to do the things they need to do.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_06: Because frankly, we're going to spend most of our lives working and trying to get results.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_06: So isn't it better to do it with a team you like being successful with and you care about, you know what you're supposed to do together?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, being in a entertaining, but because so all of this is about helping us solve the problems and get the results, I think.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yet you cannot have a winning team if you're not tracking the impact of your effort.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're not tracking the impact of your actions toward winning, adjusting to win, then you're not going to improve performance.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: One of the key elements of coaching, of what coaches do, is they measure the impact of the effort and then they evaluate it and they say, is this what we want or is it not what we want?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's not what you want, there needs to be correction and adjustment, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if it is what you want, then we want that to be reinforced with positive reinforcement, right, Rick?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, you understand this more than most because of your background in psychology, but yeah, it's funny.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_05: I had come to my mind that there's a Netflix series, I think it's called The Dance, which is about the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan and things like that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_05: And everybody starts by saying, Michael was so hard to play with.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_05: He was so hard in practice.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_05: But then they all say, I wouldn't have wanted to be on any other team, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_05: Because we knew everybody was going to push each other to be the best and we won championships because of it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_05: And so it was that I'm doing this because I know the end result is we're going to be part of a great team.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_05: I know that I've got to put the effort and the intensity into it to maintain that cadence of being part of that great team.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_05: I can see that coaching breaks down when it's abstract.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_05: You know, what both of you guys are talking about is coaching that really is about results, intention, and follow-through, right?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: Now, when we get into problems or challenges, what do we do to solve those with our people we're coaching?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_05: I can tell you what we don't do.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: We don't tell them what to do.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's the hardest thing as a coach.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't tell them sports coaching is different, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're always telling people what to do.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: But in our profession, we don't tell people what to do.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: We don't give them advice, right, Kent?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about this all the time.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't give people advice because they don't take it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Don't tell them what to do.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we understand that people, this is Mel Robbins' great book, The Let Them Theory.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are free to think what they think, say what they want to say, do what they want to do, and act the way they want to, you know, they're free, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now everything has a consequence, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everything has a consequence to their freedom.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can react based on your freedom, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the best ways to get people unstuck or to get them thinking through a solution is to use prototypes.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it's like a game.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when people give me crazy ideas, like just out of nowhere, like, well, what about this?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, that's a prototype.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: If it's no matter how ridiculous it sounds, I say, Well, that's a prototype.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what's another prototype?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So usually we get through sticking points by understanding where we're at, where we want to be, what barriers are getting in the way, and then using the power of prototypes to work through the best possible solution.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what prototypes do for you is they set up the aha moment for you to take action.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing this yesterday.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Someone was having a real mental health crisis at work and they were having some problems, and they were facing a lot of serious and very difficult personal things, tragedies that have happened in their life.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we used prototypes as a way to work through to get them out of the five.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or flight response, get them out of locked up emotional, you know, complete chaos to say, okay, you could do this, you can do this prototype, you can do that prototype, prototype one, two, or three, or you can combine prototypes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And because we want them to have a sense of control and a sense of freedom on how they approach their difficulties.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the power of prototypes oftentimes really lead to really good thinking and good solutions.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'll say this whenever someone thinks they have to do something, I have no choice.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do this.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably going to be the wrong decision.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're not making rational decisions.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can talk, Rick, about the psychology of this.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens is the more you have a fight or flight response, the less your thinking becomes open, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you narrow your ability to solve problems.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And prototypes are a great way to expand your possibilities and figure out the best solution to move forward.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: I totally agree.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_05: And even in an organizational context, when you get into that prototype thinking, collaboration just skyrockets in organizations.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_05: You reduce risk, you drive innovation.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_05: Organizational outcomes through prototypes are just a brilliant way to approach solving problems and thinking.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_05: And you're right, when it comes to that psychology piece, you know, when rational thinking is low, the ability to respond to anything drops as well, right?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's correlated right away with that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_05: So, Kent, I want to hear from you.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_05: But what I hear is coaches help people test their thinking, not just defend it.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_05: And we could naturally just defend our thinking, but coaching is really there to help test that thinking.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_05: Now, Kent, what I really appreciate when we do training together, you're really good at talking about how your kids are either good or maybe you've challenged them on this.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_05: Do you have a family story of getting kids to test their thinking, not just defend it?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I yeah, sure, lots of those.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_06: I do want to say something that based on what Sam said, I had a mentor decades ago, Jerry all, super guy, who used to say all the time, there are lots of ways to be right.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_06: I try to remember that when I'm coaching with someone, or I'm working with leaders, and even with my own kids who are now adults, is you know what, they're doing it differently, but there are lots of ways to be right.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_06: So that thinking has helped me, and I don't do it all the time.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_06: I don't do it as well as I should do it, or as consistently as I should do it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_06: But the idea of focusing on, hey, you've come up with a plan, now what are we going to do?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_06: How are we going to execute on that plan?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_06: And when the plan doesn't go well, we're having a conversation with my own kids about, okay, so what would you do differently next time?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_06: Or why didn't it go well?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_06: Was it that you didn't do enough of it, or you didn't do it consistently enough, or who knows what it, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_06: But holding people accountable for the results that you both agreed on, whatever it is, it's a clean room, it's the cars wash, it's the yard mode, or it's whatever work it is you want your team members to do, but whatever you've agreed on, then now holding them accountable for that, you've come up with some prototypes.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_06: Now let's go, and so lots of ways to win.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_06: You come up with one, you're gonna work on it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_06: Now, my job is to follow up and hold them accountable.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_06: What I've been guilty of, especially as a young leader decades ago, and sometimes even now, is you think, well, it'll get better on its own.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_06: It never gets better on its own.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_06: Why?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_06: Get in the habit of doing things a certain way and they think that's okay, because overlooking it's just saying, well, it's okay.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_06: Well, it isn't okay.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_06: But one of the worst things we can do is not hold people accountable for things they committed to.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_06: I don't mean in a mean way, a mean-spirited way, but hey, how'd you do?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_06: What'd you say you were going to do?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_06: How did it go?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_06: Where do you need help?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_06: And then, right?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_06: That idea, simple ideas.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Ken, it's funny because if you don't hold people accountable, they'll never connect the dots to have the learning to adjust to get mastery and success.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Accountability is probably 75% of what a coach has to do.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we're not talking about grinding on people and using your power and authority to extract accountability.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what we're talking about.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about holding them accountable to make and keep commitments they made.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's a different kind of accountability, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then to connect the dots on why they failed and then what course of action to adjust and to be held accountable to that course, that different course of action that'll get improvement.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're not tracking it and you're not holding people accountable to win, if you don't create a winnable game, right, then people won't win.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: People won't be engaged, you'll lose them, they'll be quiet quitting.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: They'll just stay in work and be demoralized and just say, well, you know, it's not going to be, and then you'll look for a job elsewhere and you'll lose really great talent.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: But connect the dots.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that has that requires patience.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You some people don't connect the dots as quickly as other people, right?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I see leaders do this all, they say this to me all the time.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I figured it out.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they need to figure it out.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guess what?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're not you.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're in a leadership position because you're exceptional, and you know, they may not figure it out, but yet your success as a leader is going to be determined on if they figure it out or not.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So don't just leave it to chance.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Help them to connect the dots.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_05: You know what's funny about that is in a good number of organizations we advise, I often have to help the leaders understand the difference between accountability and consequences because they automatically assume accountability with punishment.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_05: And we reframe it to say, no, no, accountability is about a structure in service of the growth of people, right?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's that structure that helps them elevate, move up, step into the commitments that they're doing and learn how to hold themselves accountable.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I love that difference that you framed is it's not about the grind, right?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's actually about how do we help unleash the potential we keep talking about in employees.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_05: And one of the best ways to do that is to have them hold themselves accountable.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_06: You know, I love right after Cobra.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_06: We heard a lot about this new term, hadn't it existed, I don't think, before, and that is quiet quitting, right?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_06: And quiet quitting has existed forever, right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_06: Forever and ever and ever.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_06: We just never had a name for it.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_06: I like that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_06: I love that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_06: And so often we see in organizations where people were not held accountable in a positive way, in a way that builds them.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_06: They were held accountable in ways that demoralized them, that defeated them, or they weren't winning and they weren't successful.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_06: And instead of the leaders working with them and finding, let's find ways to be successful.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_06: Let's kept grinding on them and grinding on them.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_06: You know, what is that the old saying?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_06: If you beat them long enough, you get great results or something like that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, that doesn't really go.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_06: That's a horrible example.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_06: You know, that is that's a Roman dictator example.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_06: That has never worked, but it's really this idea of holding people accountable in a positive way.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_06: And when it doesn't go well, where do you need help?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_06: How can I help you?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_06: What do we need to bring to bear to get you the success you want?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_06: I think I told this story on the last podcast, but I'll probably tell it all the time because one of my first leaders at a Fortune 100 company, Kimberly Clark, decades ago, I was a new leader in his organization, and I went to him with some questions and issues I had.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_06: And then he said, Hey, Kent, you can come to me with any problem, but I want you to bring it loose to possible solutions because I have confidence in you.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_06: I believe in you.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, you're new, but you've been in other plants, you've done other things.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_06: We hired you because we thought that you could do it, you could figure it out, even though it was a completely different role and a completely different part of the company.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_06: And that so empowered me because he believed in me enough to say, I'm here to help, but I also want to see what you think.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_06: What a great example of how to coach and teach and train and motivate someone when you give an idea, but say, Well, what do you think?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_06: You know, and we're saying in a coaching situation, you're asking them for the ideas, which is really what we believe.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_06: But at first, I was so stuck I needed his help.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_06: He helped me, and then he said, and next time, here's what we're going to do differently.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_06: It was so empowering.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_06: And that's the kind of leader I think we need to be.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_06: We get so used to solving problems and fixing things that we forget, hey, we hired this person because they have a brain and they have a back and they have a mind.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_06: There's an old saying that says, you pay people to get their backs and their hands, but you don't pay them to get their minds and their hearts, right?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_06: You have to engage that, you have to empower that.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_06: And what we're talking about is in every successful organization, you got to get their hearts and their minds.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_06: I got to tell you this quick story.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_06: I was in Lehigh, Utah last week, visioning for a couple days, seeing my daughter and her husband and our grandson Maverick.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_06: This is a quick trip in and out, and they talked about this donut place called Pink Box.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_06: I've got to give them a little F.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_06: So if you're anywhere near Lehigh, Utah, you've got to go to the Pink Box to get donuts.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_06: They were wonderful donuts.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_06: But this young lady who was helping me at the counter, she said, Well, how many think you're getting?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_06: I said, I don't know, six, maybe twelve, probably twelve, knowing me, right?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_06: Probably twelve, and I said, What do you want?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_06: And they had like 50 different kinds of donuts.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_06: And I was just like a kid in the candy store, truly.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_06: And every time I'd order a donut, she'd say, I'd say, Oh, I'd like one of those.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_06: She would say, Of course.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_06: And then the next one, of course.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_06: 12 times she said, of course.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_06: Of course.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_06: Well, that's a great choice.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_06: That's a wonderful choice.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_06: I was checking out and I said, Now, what is it you said?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_06: She said, Well, I say, of course.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_06: I thought, did someone teach you to say that or whatever?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_06: But her delightful attitude and demeanor, and of course, I thought, I'm going to tell everybody about the pink donut.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_06: You know, they're probably going to franchise.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_06: They'll be in your neighborhood soon, I hope, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_06: But this attitude, of course, where does she learn that?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_06: I have no idea.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_06: I should have asked her, but it was incredible.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_06: I was listening to other people and they weren't saying that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_06: So I thought, this is just this bright young lady's approach that, of course, of course we can do that.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_06: And think about it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_06: If every one of our team members felt that way, of course, we'll find a way to be successful, we'll find a way to get this done.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_06: To me, that's what this is all about.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_06: That's what coaches do.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Where people feel like, of course, we'll get that done.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is a great way to cap off this podcast with this idea of getting and giving clear feedback.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: That was a great story.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I like to do when I coach people is I ask them, well, how was this session?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did I show up for you in a way that was meaningful and that challenged you in a way that's going to help you get better?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm open to feedback.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So being open to feedback does what?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: It opens the door for you to give feedback, right?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this idea of getting and giving feedback, right?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you frame it in the term of a prototype, it always makes it less edgy, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: I remember years ago I went on a call with Mark Josie, a friend that we the three of us know, and it was a sales call.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And after the sales call, Mark, who was area VP at the time and a very successful business person, he asked me, he said, Sam, what do you think I could have done better in this meeting?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I don't know, because I'm new in the role and it sounded good.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and he goes, What do you think you could have done better?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I could have known the product a little bit more and related to the customer.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I but it was but he set the tone for me.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: He helped me understand to give feedback, you need to get feedback.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so often we want to give feedback and tell people what to do.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they we haven't earned the right to do that because we're not open to feedback ourselves.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this idea of giving and getting clear feedback is another thing that is really critical that coaches do all the time.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_05: And it sounds like they need to be mature enough to receive it too.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yes.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_05: But as you said, you know, with your leader, that that opportunity to say, hey, are you willing to actually get feedback first?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_05: And you said, Yeah, I'm mature enough to receive this feedback.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get into this, the details of this in the coachability stuff when we start talking about what it means to be coachable.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have that in it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Super exciting for people.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_05: Well, that's amazing.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_05: It seems like what coaches do, we've made it not mysterious.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_05: We've taken it to help people see more, ask better, follow up harder, support smarter.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's telling the truth in a way people can actually use.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_05: And Ken's holding up our coaching card.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_05: What we could do in the show notes is put a link to some of these coaching cards of what coaches actually do so people can see one or two examples.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe our challenge is go try that this week.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_05: You know, have that conversation with your employee about accountability, or have that conversation about getting and giving feedback and see what comes up.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: Any closing thoughts, gentlemen?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_06: Share a couple of videos, really great.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_06: There, there are seven videos in this section, little short micro burst videos, 90 seconds or less, that are great about walking through every single step.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_06: Sam does them so well.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing I would say is that you can be a great coach once you understand what coaches do and what they don't do.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: In our next podcast, we're going to talk about what it really means to be a coach and define what is that.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Socrates said the beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms, right?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll talk about that in the next section.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: But to understand what coaches do really gets it closer for you to be able to get you, wrap your hands around what it means to be a great coach to produce extraordinary results.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're demystifying all this for you, and we're making it clear so you can have the enlightenment understanding that you need to be a great leader and a great coach.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: What a great close.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Sam.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: All right, everybody.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_04: Bye bye.