Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Sex-Starved Mom Murders 2 Tots to 'Catch a Man'

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Sex-Starved Mom Murders 2 Tots to 'Catch a Man' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What a horrific scenario, every
0:16
Speaker 1: parent's worst nightmare come true. Two little boys, one just
0:21
Speaker 1: fourteen months old, one three years old, carjack and kidnapped.
0:28
Speaker 1: That is the scene that unfolds on a rural road.
0:40
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Yes, okay, there's a lady
0:49
Speaker 1: you come on about gold and some guy jumped into
0:53
Speaker 1: a red light with her car with her two kids
0:55
Speaker 1: in it, and he's took golf with he and she
0:57
Speaker 1: got out of car here at Ohio and he's got
0:59
Speaker 1: to just mail me at her call. I don't you
1:02
Speaker 1: ruth sparcle, And so I need to go along, getle
1:05
Speaker 1: down here and the car is what we need to done.
1:08
Speaker 1: And we can't ask us a margdow protege. What color
1:14
Speaker 1: was it? A burgundy margdo proteje. Don't get them going pay?
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Speaker 1: They got two kids? How wold get them going? Pam,
1:21
Speaker 1: they got two kids? You hear that from the nine
1:24
Speaker 1: on one dispatch. Take a listen to more and one
1:29
Speaker 1: of those five, one of five gohead. I said it
1:34
Speaker 1: was a black mail driving a burgundy protege affirmative. One
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Speaker 1: time he had two juvenile avoid him. One at five
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Speaker 1: for one understood these are small children. These are her children,
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Speaker 1: and she jumped out of the car and he took
1:49
Speaker 1: the car with the children and he's headed toward Chester
1:53
Speaker 1: and one one hundred cohead or the victim of the prospect.
1:56
Speaker 1: It's called the Playing Family one hundred home one. I
2:00
Speaker 1: gathered by the call. They are not This is a
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Speaker 1: stranger that had jumped in the lady's car at a
2:07
Speaker 1: red light and she jumped out. Wow. Let me introduce
2:11
Speaker 1: you and I'll star panel to make sense of the situation.
2:14
Speaker 1: First of all, Matthew Mengino, veteran trial lawyer, former district attorney,
2:19
Speaker 1: also former Pennsylvania Board a pardoner and parole member. Author
2:23
Speaker 1: of The Executioner's Toll. Wow. Matthew Mangino joining me and
2:29
Speaker 1: you can find him at Matthew T. Mangino or matt
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Speaker 1: Mangino dot com. Doctor Joy cross In, police psychologist, author
2:38
Speaker 1: of Operation SS Practical recommendations to help stop officers suicide.
2:44
Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state
2:48
Speaker 1: of Florida, and you can find doctor Gallagher or doctor
2:51
Speaker 1: g as he is called at PATHCAREMD dot com. Dan Scott,
2:56
Speaker 1: former La County share a sergeant twenty six years with
3:01
Speaker 1: Special Victims of Bureau and Christie, Missouri, Emmy Award winning
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter and now President of Successful Strategies PR and
3:09
Speaker 1: Crisis Communications firm, speaking of a crisis the reality when
3:15
Speaker 1: you look at this, to doctor Georry Crows and police psychologists,
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Speaker 1: it is statistically very rare for not a carjacking to happen,
3:25
Speaker 1: That happens all the time, but a carjacking to happen
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Speaker 1: with two children inside. Wasn't a great while to hear
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Speaker 1: about a baby asleep in the back, but not two
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Speaker 1: children in car seats, because that would be very obvious.
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Speaker 1: I would think, right, yes, And carjacking wasn't even a term.
3:46
Speaker 1: This first came out as a kidnapping. The car just
3:49
Speaker 1: was kind of a secondary thing, and then carjacking developed
3:52
Speaker 1: out of this. Yeah, you know what, you're right. Let
3:55
Speaker 1: me follow up on that. To Dan Scott, former La
3:57
Speaker 1: County Sheriff sergeant, twenty six years, Special Victims Bureau, Dan's
4:01
Speaker 1: kind of mean. Statistically, when you get a carjack, and
4:05
Speaker 1: I prosecuted men many carjacks. They can happen almost anywhere,
4:10
Speaker 1: at a red light, they can happen at a stop sign.
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Speaker 1: I was saying a rural area, it's less likely because
4:19
Speaker 1: just think about it, you're in a rural area. What
4:20
Speaker 1: are you gonna do as the carjacker, just wait for
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Speaker 1: a car to come by. But for a carjacking to
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Speaker 1: happen with two children obviously strapped in ah, why does
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Speaker 1: the carjack or does a carjacker want the children? All
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Speaker 1: they want is the car to chop. Definitely, they do
4:36
Speaker 1: not want children. They know it's gonna draw more attention
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Speaker 1: and they know the cops are gonna be after them
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Speaker 1: getting fold If there's kids in the car, they want
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Speaker 1: the car. They sure don't want a babysit kids. Man,
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Speaker 1: you're not kidding, but Matthew Maino, I mean you're a
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Speaker 1: former prosecutor and now trial lawyer, veteran criminal defense attorney.
5:00
Speaker 1: The reality is criminals very often, I would say majority
5:04
Speaker 1: of the time, don't think. If they're thinking, they wouldn't
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Speaker 1: commit the crime to start with. So here we are
5:11
Speaker 1: trying to apply logic to the mind of a criminal.
5:15
Speaker 1: I mean, if criminals thought it through, why would they
5:18
Speaker 1: go into a bank and try to rob it? I mean,
5:20
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, right, It doesn't make sense and
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Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, this is a crime of opportunity. You
5:28
Speaker 1: see this car, You're you're gonna car Jackie, You're gonna
5:31
Speaker 1: pull the woman out. You don't realize there's children there,
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Speaker 1: maybe immediately, but you don't. You don't continue to drive
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Speaker 1: off with them. I mean, you drive to a point
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Speaker 1: where you can leave the car, leave the children safe,
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Speaker 1: and get out of the car. You're right now, You're right,
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Speaker 1: mat think that's typically what happens, because we hear about it,
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Speaker 1: like mom goes to a QT or something, gets gas,
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Speaker 1: runs into pay and the car gets taken and then
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Speaker 1: they find oh, dear lord, and have there's a baby
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Speaker 1: in the back. They usually pull the car over and bail.
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Speaker 1: You're right, Matthew, right in this scenario is really, you know,
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Speaker 1: every mother's nightmare. It's gut wretching to think that my
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Speaker 1: children are in the car with a guy with a gun.
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Speaker 1: You know, so this everybody can feel the pain. Well,
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Speaker 1: you're both absolutely correct. I will take the fifth on
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Speaker 1: a charge that I ran in at a gas station
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Speaker 1: and grab something and came back out. I'm not going
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Speaker 1: to admit it or deny it. It may have happened once,
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Speaker 1: and then I may have thought. What am I thinking? Yes,
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Speaker 1: the car's right there, Yes I can see it. But
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Speaker 1: what if some nut comes against that car? I mean
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Speaker 1: it could happen. It's not beyond the realm of possibility.
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Speaker 1: I mean the threat that somebody could take your car
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Speaker 1: with your child in it. I mean, it does happen.
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Speaker 1: So how does this whole thing unfold? How does mommy
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Speaker 1: get yanked out of the car and some freak takes
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Speaker 1: off with her car and her two children inside? To Christy, Missourich.
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Speaker 1: Many people, many legal eagles, believe that mommy is yanked
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Speaker 1: out of the car at a stop sign, perp gets
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Speaker 1: in and takes off. But is it correct that mommy's
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Speaker 1: actually in the vehicle with the perp and drives a
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Speaker 1: few minutes before she's kicked out. So it's nut is
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Speaker 1: in the car. So it's not exactly a one minute scenario.
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Speaker 1: It's more like ten minutes that mommy has a chance
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Speaker 1: to look at the guy that takes her children. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to this. Please let me take on me.
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Speaker 1: He said, no, we didn't have time because they want
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Speaker 1: in car seats and it was gonna take time for
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Speaker 1: me to get Hi out of the car seat. And
7:58
Speaker 1: please tell me so but I hurt so called, but
8:02
Speaker 1: he had a gun. And my big thing is they
8:07
Speaker 1: were screaming, holland and crying, and I'm just scared that
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Speaker 1: he just thought his patience crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
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Speaker 1: for those of you just joining us, how do two
8:32
Speaker 1: children get carjack kidnapped and mommy kicked out of the
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Speaker 1: car And here where you're hearing mommy, stay, this was
8:40
Speaker 1: no accident. The carjacker knew the children were in the car.
8:45
Speaker 1: And that's a very, very different scenarios. Straight out to
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Speaker 1: Matthew Mangino, a veteran trial lawyer joining me out of Pennsylvania. Matthew,
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Speaker 1: that's a different scenario. Many people, many legal eagles and analysts,
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Speaker 1: believe mommy just yanked out of the car at a
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Speaker 1: stop sign and the part takes off in the car,
9:05
Speaker 1: not realizing there are children in the car. That's not correct.
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Speaker 1: She's just leaving shopping at a Walmart. She's at a
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Speaker 1: red light, which tells me they're substantially more traffic, and
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Speaker 1: it's not exactly the rural area we first thought, and
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Speaker 1: that the part drove around for ten minutes with Mommy
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Speaker 1: in the car. And knows full well there are two
9:26
Speaker 1: children in the car. This is no accident. Right, it's
9:30
Speaker 1: not an accident. And if I were investigating, as my
9:33
Speaker 1: antennas would would begin to go up immediately. I mean,
9:37
Speaker 1: you're going to leave your children in that vehicle? H
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Speaker 1: double l No, that is not happening, Matthew Mangino. But right,
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Speaker 1: and you're not going to plead for their release. You know,
9:48
Speaker 1: as we said a moment ago, you know, criminals want
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Speaker 1: a vehicle, they don't want two children in a vehicle.
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Speaker 1: You know, you pull the side of the road, Mom,
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Speaker 1: gets your kids out of here before I shoot you.
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Speaker 1: That's the scenario that you would think would happen. But
10:02
Speaker 1: that's not what we hear from this one. That is
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Speaker 1: not what we're hearing. And the other reality is that
10:11
Speaker 1: we have to accept carjackings have happened with children in
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Speaker 1: the car and the driver didn't know it. But here
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Speaker 1: he's taken on just a car, but two babies too.
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Speaker 1: Does it really make sense? Well, you know what you
10:27
Speaker 1: cannot explain away the mind of a criminal. I mean
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Speaker 1: you're the shrink doctor, Jerry Cross, and criminals do things
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Speaker 1: that don't make sense to us because we're not criminals,
10:36
Speaker 1: that's true. And one of the things that really stuck
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Speaker 1: out in my mind as a kidnapper, and she described
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Speaker 1: him as a black male looking back historically, and I
10:46
Speaker 1: even checked at the time the crime reports and for
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Speaker 1: our state of Florida, there were no black servant anytime
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Speaker 1: for kidnapping. So there's another behavior that I thought that's
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Speaker 1: really unusual. So we got the first time you know
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Speaker 1: of a kidnapper of this race. Yeah, I'm thinking through
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Speaker 1: the way this whole thing unfalls. But take a listen
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Speaker 1: to this. Sitting on the floor in front of Susan,
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Speaker 1: David Smith at her side, her tears falling on my hand.
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Speaker 1: We began the interview to say, husband, pure health for
11:20
Speaker 1: both of you on the shore, total chaos. Could it's
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Speaker 1: been awesome, Susan, you, Um, I don't even know what
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Speaker 1: to say in here. Hey, let's a good word. I
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Speaker 1: just feel like I feel like my own one else
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Speaker 1: has been taking away. I'm am, I my children in
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Speaker 1: my life and they've just gotten to be Okay. There
11:47
Speaker 1: you're hearing mommy and husband David speaking. Let's take a
11:51
Speaker 1: listen to a little bit more of that brave multiple
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Speaker 1: evolved for them and that they are being taken care
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Speaker 1: of and that they are safe, and that they were
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Speaker 1: turn home safely. I want to say to my baby, Hey,
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Speaker 1: your mama loves you so much, and your daddy, this
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Speaker 1: whole families love you so much. And you guys a
12:16
Speaker 1: guy to be strong, because you are. I just know,
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Speaker 1: I just feel in my heart going Okay, she died
12:26
Speaker 1: to take care of each other. The search commences for
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Speaker 1: the two children, Alexander Tyler and Michael Daniel. Take a
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Speaker 1: listen to our friends at crime Online. The search for
12:41
Speaker 1: the boys and the carjacker continued. Residents printed flyers and
12:45
Speaker 1: distributed photos. Searches were conducted on horseback. Both the FBI
12:50
Speaker 1: and local law enforcement followed up on the hundreds of
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Speaker 1: leads that came in. On day three, a car was found.
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Speaker 1: Is this the break? Police needed a car? Matt, The
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Speaker 1: description of Susan's monster was spotted in North Carolina, but
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Speaker 1: it wasn't hers. So the car is found, but it's
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Speaker 1: a different protege. Take a listen to mommy and Hubby
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Speaker 1: speaking to CBS this morning. Susan, how are you doing
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Speaker 1: this morning? Doing okay? Very little sleep last night, but
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Speaker 1: I'm okay. There was some news yesterday and some promising
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Speaker 1: leads in this case. How are how are you coping
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Speaker 1: with the disappointment of the news from yesterday? Um, it
13:34
Speaker 1: was I was running around my house yesterday morning. I
13:38
Speaker 1: was excited. I really thought that they had had had
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Speaker 1: really found something that was I really thought they had
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Speaker 1: found one of my children. And when I got to
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Speaker 1: the courthouse and found out that the lead had disintegrated
13:52
Speaker 1: or when there was nothing now, I was very devastated,
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Speaker 1: very disappointed. Uh, got my hosts up and was let down.
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Speaker 1: But I haven't given up hope. You know, that was
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Speaker 1: maybe one of many disappointments, but maybe that's gonna be right.
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Speaker 1: Mommy didn't stop there. Listen on behalf, on my behalf.
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Speaker 1: The truth has been told. UM, I know right here
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Speaker 1: what the truth is. UM. I can I can from
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Speaker 1: some I can see from their side why they have
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Speaker 1: to do things they have to do. UM. But the
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Speaker 1: Lord and at myself as know the truth. I did
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Speaker 1: not have anything to do with the abduction of my children. UM.
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Speaker 1: I don't think any parents of other children any more
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Speaker 1: than I do, and I would I would never even
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Speaker 1: think about ever doing anything that would harm them. And yes,
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Speaker 1: go ahead, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Susan, I was just
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Speaker 1: gonna say, it's very painful to to have a finger
14:58
Speaker 1: point the eve why short children involved the case then
15:06
Speaker 1: takes a sudden you turn. Take a listen to our
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Speaker 1: longtime friend Bill Curtis at American Justice. Divers found the
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Speaker 1: car one hundred and twenty two feet from the shore,
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Speaker 1: upside down, under eighteen feet of water. Through the murky darkness,
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Speaker 1: the beam of a diver's flashlight illuminated a small hand
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Speaker 1: pressed against the window. As the car was pulled from
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Speaker 1: the water, the bodies of Michael and Alex were visible
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Speaker 1: through the side windows. That's right, the bodies of the
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Speaker 1: children were found his Randall Pinkston CBS. Last night, Smith's
15:40
Speaker 1: car was recovered from a nearby lake. Sources say her
15:44
Speaker 1: two sons, three year old Michael at fourteen month old Alex,
15:47
Speaker 1: were alive strapped into their seats when the car sank.
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Speaker 1: CBS News has learned her motive may have involved a
15:54
Speaker 1: relationship with the man who wanted her but not her children. Today,
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Speaker 1: the family of David's or the father of the two
16:01
Speaker 1: little boys, coped with the shock during all the RDA
16:04
Speaker 1: or the community of Union South Carolina provided an unprecedented
16:08
Speaker 1: amount of support for David and the family, and at
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Speaker 1: the lake where they died all day they come in
16:15
Speaker 1: solemn contemplation just looking at it, so you can believe
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Speaker 1: it is. You can't understanding our mother could do that
16:25
Speaker 1: towards children two daughter. Tim Gallagher the medical examiner for
16:31
Speaker 1: the entire state of Florida. You can find him at
16:34
Speaker 1: pathcaremad dot com. Doctor Gallagher, I'm having a hard time
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Speaker 1: taking in what happened to these two little boys, one
16:43
Speaker 1: just fourteen months old, one three years old. How would
16:48
Speaker 1: authorities know the two little boys were alive when they
16:54
Speaker 1: were strapped into their car seats and pushed into the lake. Well,
17:00
Speaker 1: they would know obviously from doing an autopsy and examining
17:03
Speaker 1: the findings. First thing we're going to have to establish
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Speaker 1: is that there were no other injuries on the child,
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Speaker 1: any traumatic injuries on the children from perhaps a previous attack.
17:16
Speaker 1: Once we do the autopsy, will be able to examine
17:19
Speaker 1: the lungs and be able to examine the contents of
17:24
Speaker 1: the lungs. For instance, microbes that are in the water,
17:28
Speaker 1: we can look at that under the microscope. And the
17:30
Speaker 1: only way those get in there is if you actively
17:33
Speaker 1: breathe them in. There are also water in the stomach.
17:38
Speaker 1: People tend to gulp down the water and we'll find
17:41
Speaker 1: the pond water in the stomach and also in some
17:45
Speaker 1: of the airspaces behind the nose. We'll see water there.
17:49
Speaker 1: And the only way to back to get in is
17:51
Speaker 1: if you actively take a breath under water and it
17:55
Speaker 1: fills up those cavities behind the nose. So there are
17:58
Speaker 1: several ways. Prime stories with Nancy Grace for those of
18:16
Speaker 1: you just joining us, two little boys, after a nine
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Speaker 1: days search, are found drowned dead, strapped into the car seats.
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Speaker 1: The car then pushed into a lake. You know it
18:32
Speaker 1: was the John D. Long Lake where two little boys
18:36
Speaker 1: lost their lives. So I guess the carjacker changed his mind.
18:44
Speaker 1: Take a listen to the boys, Dad David speaking to me.
18:53
Speaker 1: So you realized in one fell swoop that they have
18:58
Speaker 1: been killed. And Susan Smith, your wife, I'd done the
19:03
Speaker 1: deed at once, just like that, It's like, what did
19:06
Speaker 1: you do? Gave up? Gave up? I ran first. I
19:12
Speaker 1: just wanted to run, and I ran. You ran where
19:15
Speaker 1: sut he are? He ran out the door. Yeah, I
19:17
Speaker 1: had to go. I just had to go. Where did
19:20
Speaker 1: you run to? I don't know. I just ran. I
19:21
Speaker 1: don't remember your straight clothes. I just had to go.
19:27
Speaker 1: I just had to run. And when did you come back?
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Speaker 1: My dad chased after me and caught up with me finally,
19:34
Speaker 1: and we walked back to the to the Russell's home.
19:37
Speaker 1: Was it at night? It's dark? Let me go to
19:41
Speaker 1: Doctor Jerry Crowsen joining US psychologist faculty, Saint Leo University.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowsen, I have seen that many times in cases
19:56
Speaker 1: I prosecuted and investigated where the victim family actually child
20:05
Speaker 1: animal and cries and screams, and they don't really seem
20:10
Speaker 1: to have a full memory of that moment, as if
20:15
Speaker 1: they want to just run outside and how the moon
20:19
Speaker 1: out of grief? What is that? That's the overwhelming stress
20:24
Speaker 1: And we refer to it as a displacement activity because
20:29
Speaker 1: basically portions of your mind memory shut down and you
20:32
Speaker 1: just got to physically release this stressful energy that's now
20:37
Speaker 1: been dumped on you or slapped you upside the face,
20:40
Speaker 1: so you know the physical ability to get out and run,
20:44
Speaker 1: do some kind of movement that's going to start, you know,
20:48
Speaker 1: catching up with his heart. Rage is breathing and just
20:51
Speaker 1: like you said his father came and chased him down
20:53
Speaker 1: and you know, basically stopped him. And that brings you
20:56
Speaker 1: back to reality. I'm just thinking of but David went
21:01
Speaker 1: through being confronted with the drowning death of his children.
21:09
Speaker 1: Dan Scott joining me former La County sheriff sergeant twenty
21:12
Speaker 1: six years with with the Special Victims Bureau specializing in children,
21:19
Speaker 1: Dan Scott to just think that they were conscious as
21:26
Speaker 1: the car filled up with water. The last thing they
21:31
Speaker 1: likely saw was mommy or the carjacker standing by on
21:38
Speaker 1: the dot watching their cargo. Dan, and you know they
21:41
Speaker 1: were screaming for mommy. Exactly the horror that those children
21:46
Speaker 1: went through. You know, you can say how long mom's
21:49
Speaker 1: been in jail and do people deserve that, but these
21:54
Speaker 1: kids were. I mean, it's almost like the torture for
21:58
Speaker 1: them to be in that car. You know, they count
22:01
Speaker 1: on their mom to protect them, their parents, and for
22:04
Speaker 1: them to be subjected to this is just I mean,
22:08
Speaker 1: I've seen so many child homicides and I still, after
22:12
Speaker 1: all these years, can't wrap my mind around it. Guys,
22:17
Speaker 1: take a listen to the dad of these two little boys,
22:22
Speaker 1: David Smith, speaking to me. Did you go to the jail. No,
22:30
Speaker 1: when did you see her again? It was about a
22:33
Speaker 1: month later after she hadn't been interested. What did she say, David?
22:39
Speaker 1: She said she was sorry, and I mean mose asked
22:42
Speaker 1: what we talked about was Michael and Alex? No, I
22:45
Speaker 1: mean I did ask her why she did and what
22:47
Speaker 1: did she say? She didn't know? When you look back, David,
22:53
Speaker 1: do you blame yourself? Do you think there were indicators
22:58
Speaker 1: or red flags you would have seen but didn't. No,
23:03
Speaker 1: I don't blame myself. I mean, Susan, you know she
23:05
Speaker 1: was confident. She was, you know, in sound minds, same
23:10
Speaker 1: thing to be Yeah, I mean, you know, in some ways,
23:13
Speaker 1: a lot of people want to say she had to
23:15
Speaker 1: be crazy, and I think I want to They say
23:17
Speaker 1: that figuratively speaking, but not legally right, but not legally
23:20
Speaker 1: She wasn't murder mom. Susan Smith, the woman who really
23:28
Speaker 1: kicked off world recognition of murder moms. She's the one
23:36
Speaker 1: to Chrissy Massurk. What was the alleged motive to murder
23:44
Speaker 1: in such a horrific way her two little boys? She
23:48
Speaker 1: was having an affair with a wealthy man, boiled down
23:53
Speaker 1: to that. In fact, police found a letter in the House,
24:00
Speaker 1: written by Tom Finley. Her lover breaking off their relationship
24:06
Speaker 1: because he did not want to be involved with a
24:08
Speaker 1: mother with children this woman, did you hear her husband say?
24:13
Speaker 1: David told me that he asked her why did she
24:16
Speaker 1: do this? And she said, I don't know, well, because
24:18
Speaker 1: she's still still playing him. She's still playing him. All
24:24
Speaker 1: the people surrounding her, including her children, are just pawns
24:28
Speaker 1: in her game. She said, I don't know why I
24:30
Speaker 1: did it. Well, this is why she did it, because
24:33
Speaker 1: she was secretly sleeping with a man who did not
24:35
Speaker 1: want children. What do we know about him? Didn't his
24:39
Speaker 1: father own a big business there in the local community.
24:43
Speaker 1: Oh yes, it's a very prominent, very wealthy. So she
24:47
Speaker 1: saw that as her golden ticket, and her manipulation continues
24:51
Speaker 1: to this day. You know the motive secretly dating a
24:55
Speaker 1: man who did not want children, Isn't it true? Chrissy
24:58
Speaker 1: Missouri did? That is why he said he broke up
25:02
Speaker 1: with her because he was not ready for a ready
25:04
Speaker 1: made family. That is correct. In a letter two doctor
25:08
Speaker 1: joy Cross in psychologists joining us, The reality is is
25:13
Speaker 1: that she worked at this business and started sleeping with
25:19
Speaker 1: the owner's son. That's what happened and out of her
25:24
Speaker 1: marriage so she could move up the social strata. And
25:28
Speaker 1: Mary the boss's son, who she perceived as being wealthy,
25:33
Speaker 1: the reality as his father was not him. So this
25:36
Speaker 1: whole thing was for naught. But is the motive money?
25:41
Speaker 1: Would the motive be social climbing? Well, what would be
25:45
Speaker 1: the motive here? Not that the state has to prove it,
25:48
Speaker 1: but what would be the motive? Well, it could have
25:50
Speaker 1: been many things really on her part. One of them
25:54
Speaker 1: was the main thing, as the children now become an
25:56
Speaker 1: obstacle to whatever her motive is and she to remove them,
26:01
Speaker 1: got to get them out of the picture. You know,
26:03
Speaker 1: the motive could have been just her narcassistic tendencies to
26:07
Speaker 1: want to have a life of luxury and money to
26:13
Speaker 1: you know, build her own self esteem and stuff up
26:16
Speaker 1: that she's lacking. Motive here is really difficult to kind
26:22
Speaker 1: of establish, but you can see from her personality that,
26:26
Speaker 1: you know, it all centered around her again victimizum and
26:30
Speaker 1: the children, like I said, become an obstacle and she
26:32
Speaker 1: has reused them time stories with Nancy grace right love
26:46
Speaker 1: of all for them and that they are being taken
26:48
Speaker 1: care of and that they are safe and that they
26:51
Speaker 1: will return home safely. I want to say to my baby,
27:00
Speaker 1: and your mama loves you so much, and your daddy,
27:03
Speaker 1: this whole families love you so much. And you guys
27:08
Speaker 1: a guy to be strong because you are. I just know.
27:14
Speaker 1: I just feel in my heart going okay, But you
27:17
Speaker 1: got to take care of each other. That is Susan
27:22
Speaker 1: Smith and murder Mom speaking for those of you just
27:25
Speaker 1: joining us. I just know in my heart you're all right.
27:28
Speaker 1: You just have to be strong for each other. No,
27:31
Speaker 1: she knew in her heart she had strapped her children
27:33
Speaker 1: into the car and their child seats and pushed the
27:37
Speaker 1: car into the lake. They're dead, Susan Smith. While you're
27:41
Speaker 1: saying all this, listen to Susan Smith, please let me
27:45
Speaker 1: take on me. He said, no, we didn't have time
27:47
Speaker 1: because they weren't in car seats and it was gonna
27:49
Speaker 1: take time for me to get my car seat. And
27:52
Speaker 1: please tell me, said, but I won't hurt them, and
27:54
Speaker 1: he just took call. But he had a gun. And
27:58
Speaker 1: my big thing is they were scream in Holland crimes
28:02
Speaker 1: and I'm just scared that he just lost his patience
28:06
Speaker 1: or something. It's not some carjacker that lost their patients.
28:11
Speaker 1: It was murder mom Susan Smith who wanted a different life.
28:15
Speaker 1: But the reality is to Matthew Mengino, criminal defense attorney
28:19
Speaker 1: and former prosecutor joining us out of Pennsylvania, this isn't
28:23
Speaker 1: the first time Susan Smith did a little social climbing.
28:28
Speaker 1: During an earlier summer, she had a job at the
28:31
Speaker 1: local Win Dixie grocery store. She moved very quickly up
28:35
Speaker 1: the ranks as kept from cashier to bookkeeper. Now this
28:39
Speaker 1: is her senior year of high school. She slept with
28:43
Speaker 1: three different guys and one of them was a married,
28:47
Speaker 1: older man who worked at the store. The other a
28:52
Speaker 1: younger co worker. My point is, this ain't her first
28:55
Speaker 1: time at the rodeo, dating or sleeping with a guy
28:59
Speaker 1: that would help to remove up the ranks at work.
29:01
Speaker 1: She's she's a master manipulator. I mean, she been manipulative
29:07
Speaker 1: in her in her work. She's been manipulative with Um,
29:11
Speaker 1: the owner, the owner's son of the business she worked for.
29:16
Speaker 1: And you know, she manipulated her her husband, Um, you know,
29:21
Speaker 1: throughout their relationship. So this is something that she does
29:24
Speaker 1: and she does it well. Man. She's playing so many
29:27
Speaker 1: different guys, including her own husband. Not wanting to work
29:30
Speaker 1: in the same place as her husband, she takes a
29:33
Speaker 1: job as a bookkeeper and the largest employer in the area.
29:37
Speaker 1: It's called Conso Products. She was promoted to executive secretary
29:42
Speaker 1: and she worked directly for the CEO, Jay Carrey Finley,
29:48
Speaker 1: and of course started dating his son. That's how that
29:53
Speaker 1: works out. Chrissy Missourich. She finally confesses that it was
29:59
Speaker 1: her some unknown carjacker to the children. Is that correct?
30:04
Speaker 1: Of course that's correct, because she couldn't keep her story straight.
30:09
Speaker 1: You know, first somebody yate trot of the car, then
30:12
Speaker 1: she drove around with the person in the car. The
30:15
Speaker 1: story kept changing. You know, people in the media like myself,
30:19
Speaker 1: we were watching this unfold, praying that these two babies
30:23
Speaker 1: get returned. And by day three or four, we were
30:27
Speaker 1: looking at each other in the newsroom going, I think
30:29
Speaker 1: this woman's got some crocodile tears going. Well. Also, do
30:33
Speaker 1: you remember the composite sketch that was released of the
30:37
Speaker 1: blackmail she described that took her children. Do you remember that?
30:43
Speaker 1: I do? You know, I remember it really really well
30:48
Speaker 1: because I was in court trying a case at the
30:53
Speaker 1: time that this occurred, and it must have been a
30:58
Speaker 1: murder case because I and call someone for help. I
31:03
Speaker 1: needed somebody to help me with some legal research quickly
31:07
Speaker 1: before the judge ruled, and I called my then partner,
31:11
Speaker 1: Herman Sloan. Herman Sloan now a judge, I might add,
31:16
Speaker 1: race to the court and to figure out what kind
31:17
Speaker 1: of mess I've gotten myself into. And I looked at her.
31:20
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, my star is Herman. You look just
31:23
Speaker 1: like the composite sketch Smith just released. I said, you
31:29
Speaker 1: better get your alibis. So he goes I was here
31:31
Speaker 1: in court with unancy. I'm like, good, good thing. But
31:33
Speaker 1: my point is she could have gotten so many people
31:37
Speaker 1: in trouble, not just my trial partner, Hermann Sloan, who
31:42
Speaker 1: was now a judge. She creates in her mind what
31:48
Speaker 1: the carjacker looks like and then puts it out there,
31:51
Speaker 1: or how many people do you think we're under suspicion?
31:55
Speaker 1: Because of her fate, composite members of law enforcement were
31:59
Speaker 1: picking up dozens daily for questioning. So it all comes
32:06
Speaker 1: out at trial to doctor Tim Gallagher or the medical
32:10
Speaker 1: examiner for the State of Florida, that's not easy. You
32:16
Speaker 1: can find it at pathcaremad dot com. Doctor Gallagher, how
32:20
Speaker 1: long does it take to drown? I mean, I'm just
32:23
Speaker 1: imagining the children strapped in the car seats, they can't
32:25
Speaker 1: get out, and the water is filling up in the car. Right.
32:30
Speaker 1: There are a couple of factors, you know, how how
32:32
Speaker 1: rapidly your body is using oxygen. If the water starts
32:36
Speaker 1: coming into the car and the children start panicking, then
32:40
Speaker 1: they would be their body use of oxygen would be
32:43
Speaker 1: greatly increased. But the reality is, after three minutes or
32:49
Speaker 1: greater of no oxygen to the brain, they will develop
32:52
Speaker 1: irreparable brain damage. They will stop breathing, and then they
32:56
Speaker 1: can be declared to ceased after that, you know the
33:00
Speaker 1: way you say, doctor Tim Gallager, Um, it sounds so clinical.
33:05
Speaker 1: I assume out of the thousands and thousands of autopsy
33:08
Speaker 1: if you performed you have performed them on children as
33:12
Speaker 1: young as three years old or one year old white
33:16
Speaker 1: tyler even less, you know, and those are the most
33:19
Speaker 1: difficult cases to do. You know, we are, you know,
33:21
Speaker 1: like you say, humans, ourselves and we do have children
33:24
Speaker 1: of our own, and these really hit home. But you know,
33:28
Speaker 1: we really have to put that aside to do these
33:30
Speaker 1: cases and come up with a very unbiased and scientifically
33:35
Speaker 1: provable diagnosis for our results. You know, do you, Matthew,
33:40
Speaker 1: Me and Gina, do you believe juries judge mothers more
33:44
Speaker 1: harshly that kill their children than they do other murder defendants.
33:49
Speaker 1: I do. Well. Again, it's it's human nature, you know,
33:53
Speaker 1: the idea that a mother could kill her children in
33:57
Speaker 1: such a way that she pushed them to their death
34:01
Speaker 1: and they drowned, unable to release themselves from the vehicle
34:06
Speaker 1: or get out of the water. I mean, that's a
34:08
Speaker 1: horrific way to die, and that's a horrific thing for
34:12
Speaker 1: a mother to do to her children. So obviously it's
34:15
Speaker 1: an uphill battle when you're bringing a mother in front
34:18
Speaker 1: of a jury who's been accused of killing her children.
34:21
Speaker 1: So Chrissie Missouri, Obviously she gets convicted plus the sentence life.
34:28
Speaker 1: She was sentenced to life. They wanted the death penalty,
34:31
Speaker 1: pulled it off the table. She was sentenced to life
34:33
Speaker 1: back in July of ninety five and has been behind
34:37
Speaker 1: bars ever since. But she'll appreciate this, Nancy. A leopard
34:41
Speaker 1: doesn't change their spots, you know what, you Truer words
34:45
Speaker 1: were never spoken Christie, Missouri investigative reporter. A leopard can't
34:50
Speaker 1: change its spots. Susan Smith, murder mom. Many people say
34:56
Speaker 1: life behind bars was too harsh. 's better than our
35:01
Speaker 1: two little boys got. Susan Smith brought in Hell. Nancy
35:10
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories, Murder Monds signing off Goodbye friend