Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 415- Rubies, Strippers, and Midget Assassins... Oh My!

Transcript

JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 415- Rubies, Strippers, and Midget Assassins... Oh My! · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello everyone, welcome back to my channel.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: We're digging through the past.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Gonna make the questions last.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: One man on the sixth floor with shadows on the nose.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Smooth sailing through the secrets.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Come on, let's rock the boat and roll.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: We're digging through the past.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Who fired the shots?
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Ooh, somebody knows.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Who fired the shots? It's the Longer Man Podcast.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: We're digging through the past Triple B and Joe B
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: Gonna make the questions last One man on.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: The sixth floor Or shadows on the north Smooth sailing
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: through the secrets Come on Who's sailing through the secret?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: The Lone Gunman Podcast. The Lone Gunman Podcast.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, welcome in, folks. It is Friday night. I
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: try to get through most of the comments in the intro,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: but you know we love you. Thanks for being here.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: We've got an exciting action-packed show for you tonight. Isn't
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: that right, Yosef?
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: That would be accurate, sir.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. It's going to be a fun one, shall we say?
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: And it all stems from one document that I found.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: So let me show you this document, folks, because I
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: kind of had an idea, and we ran it past
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: Joe after the show Wednesday night. And I gave him
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: a couple of ideas, and he's like, oh, yeah, we
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: got to do that one. Okay, done. So.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Also accurate.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: This one document sparked this entire episode. Actually, two paragraphs.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: sparked this entire episode from one article. So without further ado,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: let me share my screen here and show you this
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: one document. Okay. So this is an HSCA document. It's
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: a CIA FOIA request for indexes on Teresa Norton, Anonymous Tips, Cubans,
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Pro Castro, and Miscellaneous.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: And a lot of these HSCA folks like Blakey and
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: the investigators like Fenton are copied on this. So I
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: scrolled down. What's interesting about this is it comes from
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: the London Daily Worker. Okay? Which, of course, the Daily
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Worker is.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: One of the magazines or newspapers that Lee Harvey Oswald
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: was subscribed to, and he was holding in the, allegedly
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: holding in the backyard photographs, right? And they're talking about
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: the death toll coming up. And this was published in
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: October 26th, 1964. And let's read together because y'all are
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: going to love this.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: So by London Worker. You mean the Daily Worker's kind
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: of newspaper based out of London. The one Oswalt, the
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: communist magazine.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if they had a different European
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: edition than the American edition. I don't know.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: Right, but it's the same one he was subscribed to.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, the Daily Worker, yes.
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Okay. October 26, 1964. This is, of course, after the
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Warren Report had just come out a month before. And
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: they're talking about mysterious deaths that occur around the case,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: which of course would become a big thing later. But
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: this is the beginnings. A short death roll is beginning
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: to build up of the names of those who were
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: involved in the episodes following President Kennedy's assassination. Evidence about
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: two new deaths quoted yesterday by the British Who Killed
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Kennedy Committee I'm back. Sorry about that. My internet took
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: a shit.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: It happens.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: All right. Where was I? What was the last thing
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: you heard here?
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: You were just reading the first, I think, the second paragraph.
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: Evidence about two new deaths quoted yesterday by the British
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: Who Killed Kennedy Committee adds to the evidence cited by
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: United States lawyer Mr. Mark Lane. in his recent 6,000-word
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: refutation of the Warren Commission report. Striptease Dancer. The first
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: death occurred in September, that would be 64, when Teresa Norton,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: the striptease dancer, who was arrested at the Ruby trial
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: for carrying a pistol into the courtroom in her purse,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: was found dead in a Houston motel. At her inquest,
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: the jury brought a verdict of suicide.
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: Okay?
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Now, folks, you may be asking yourself, who the hell
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: is Therese Norton? Well, nobody, apparently. Nobody with that name
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: was ever a dancer for Jack Ruby, right? Yes.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: Not that I remember.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm trying to think and think and think.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I'm like, who could this be? And I've searched high
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: and low for Theresa Norton. Okay, she doesn't exist. But
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: there is a theory and a weird one to boot.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: So let me show you guys something here.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: Hang on one second.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: I gotta kill the music so we don't get lambasted.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: Which is happening a lot these days on the tubes.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's really no need for the music
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: in the background, but.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: This is a scene because the newspaper article gives us
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: a clue. Recently arrested at the trial of Jack Ruby. Alright, well,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: there's only one stripper that I know of that was
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: arrested at the trial for Jack Ruby. And that was
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: the same one that he supposedly wired $ 25 to from
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: the Western Union right before he went across the street
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: and allegedly shot Lee Harvey Oswald in the basement.
• 10:34
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: Alright, so let's take a look at Little Lynn. That
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: would be Karen Carlin. And They actually have footage of
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: her being arrested there. They found a gun revolver in
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: her purse.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: And, of course, they had news cameras there. And they
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: got it. So let's take a look at this, Joe. Yeah, please.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Notice how they let her smoke the entire time.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Here we go. That's her right there with the sunglasses
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: on and the mink around her neck. Wow. She's smoking
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: while they fingerprint her.
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: That's awesome.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: And there's nothing really special here. They're just fingerprinting her.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: And then after they're done, they let her wash the
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: ink off of her hands in the sink.
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: But of course, you know, the newspapers are there. So, hey.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: You got to do what you got to do.
• 11:45
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Now, why would you come into the trial of your
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: former boss with a gun in your purse, dude?
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you know when you go into,
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't want to say courtrooms, because
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: I haven't been in a courtroom in a very long time, allegedly,
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: or like the DMV, they have now the metal detectors,
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: like you're going through TSA at the airport. I don't
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: know how it was back then, but To me, it
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: seems that maybe she was trying to silence Jack the
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: way Jack silenced Lee. That's the only thing that comes
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: to my mind. I'm not saying that's her intention.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's very odd. Because after all this
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: happened and the circumstances surrounding everything, the cops and the
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: FBI were investigating the shit out of her and her husband. Because,
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: of course, they thought that they were kind of in
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: on some kind of skifusery with Jack Ruby in planning
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: the murder of Oswald. And it turns out that her husband,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Bruce Carlin, was a pimp, right? And he pimped his
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: women to Ruby, including his wife. Not really his wife, actually.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: They were common law, husband and wife. But let's take
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: a look at what little Lynn has to actually say
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: about things. And she was 5'3, 108 pounds. And just remember, folks,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: 19 years old at the time of this video.
• 13:31
  Speaker 8: 19.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: You're muted.
• 13:32
  Speaker 8: 19.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Wow. She looked a little older than that.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: That's what they all say, Joe.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: She's not here alive to hear me say it.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: All right, here we go. Little Lynn in her own words.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Hey, there's Alan Dale on the drums. You know.
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: Then you say this is going to be your last
• 14:25
  Speaker 7: performance in public these five days here? Yes, it will.
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: What's the reason for that?
• 14:30
  Speaker 9: I don't like the stripping.
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: So why are you appearing here for these?
• 14:36
  Speaker 9: Because of financial difficulty. Because of being evicted so many
• 14:41
  Speaker 9: times and so many jobs my husband's lost.
• 14:45
  Speaker 7: You've had a lot of trouble with... land ladies and
• 14:48
  Speaker 7: landlords lately, we understand. What sort of trouble do you have?
• 14:51
  Speaker 9: Well, as soon as they find out who I am
• 14:54
  Speaker 9: and who I was connected with, they always ask us
• 14:56
  Speaker 9: to leave for some odd little reason.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: What sort of excuses do they give for.
• 15:00
  Speaker 7: Asking you to leave?
• 15:01
  Speaker 9: Well, they say that they don't want to be involved
• 15:03
  Speaker 9: in the Jack Ruby in any way, nor do they
• 15:06
  Speaker 9: want any trouble, and they don't want the investigators coming around.
• 15:10
  Speaker 7: Have you been bothered with investigators at all since the
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: Jack Ruby trial?
• 15:13
  Speaker 9: Quite a bit.
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: What sort of.
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: Questions have they been asking you, and where are the
• 15:17
  Speaker 7: investigators from?
• 15:19
  Speaker 9: The investigators are from Dallas and Fort Worth, also the
• 15:22
  Speaker 9: Warren Commission. And the questions are, I guess, just about
• 15:26
  Speaker 9: the same as they ask anyone. Did you know Jack
• 15:29
  Speaker 9: Ruby and so on and so forth.
• 15:31
  Speaker 7: What kind of a man was Jack Ruby or is
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: Jack Ruby?
• 15:35
  Speaker 9: Well, I believe he was a nice employer to me.
• 15:39
  Speaker 9: I believe he's a highly nervous person. I don't really
• 15:43
  Speaker 9: like to give my own opinion of what I really believe.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: She doesn't like to give her opinion about what she
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: really believes about Jack Ruby.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: And why could that be?
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Well....
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Could be a lot of reasons, Joe. But let's start... Well, and.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: Sticking with the theme, it's because a lot of people...
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: Do you know the date of that interview?
• 16:16
  Speaker 9: It was.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: I think January of 64? No, August 64.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, so a couple of people related to Ruby had
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: already been dying. Possibly suspiciously.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: By then. Alright, so let's get back to our article
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: at hand. And the next part of it goes into
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: something that Joe will be addressing here in a little bit.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: You can't make this stuff up, folks. So, the second
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: death was one of a journalist, Mr. Jim Cothie, who
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: was the first man to enter Ruby's apartment after Ruby
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: shot Oswald. He was found in Dallas strangled. A suspect
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: picked up by the Dallas police was described as pint-sized.
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: Meaning.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: He was a little person, folks. So Mr. Jim Cothie
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: was strangled to death by a midget. Because it addresses
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: the fact that Mr. Cothie was a fully proportionate six-footer.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Apparently not his assassin. Mr. Lane now has further evidence
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: that the Kennedy assassination weapon was not found in the
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Book Depository building, and that the weapon found there was
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: not the alleged murder weapon. Murder weapon, Mr. Milton Klein,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: who is said to have sent the alleged murder weapon
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: to a Mr. Heidel, has stated that Klein's sporting goods
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: records show an order for a rifle shorter than the
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: one produced by the Dallas police as Oswald's. Other new
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: findings include witnesses and film giving evidence that almost everyone
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: fell to the ground near the underpass in front of
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: the president's car when the shots came. But nobody fell
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: to the ground near the book depository building from which
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Oswald is alleged to have fired the shots. And that's
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: the end of the article there. But I pointed out
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: to Joe that that is a pretty good point, folks.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: If you feel like you may be in the line
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: of fire or very close to a shooter, you're either
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: going to run like hell or hit the dirt. Right?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: That's your two reactions. Or freeze in place like a deer. Right?
• 18:37
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Well, three reactions. But Nobody near the book depository on
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: either side of the street hit the ground. It was
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: only people near the knoll and out in the open.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Which is a good point. You know, I gotta say.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Something you never really thought about before. Something that makes
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: you go, hmm, kind of, right? Alright, let's get into
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: some more goodies. And this started January 3rd, 1964, folks.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Sheriff Bill Decker, Dallas County Sheriff's Office, made available a
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: copy of the following letter that was received at the
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Dallas County Jail. Directed to Jack Ruby and postmarked from
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Fort Worth. And get this. Jack, don't worry. We will
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: get you out even if we have to blow up
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: the whole city. We will be there the 9th. Be ready.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Don't be a fool like Lee. We have all the
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: connections and as far as President Johnson, it will be
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: done right this time. We are in Fort Worth now.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: If anyone reads this, don't talk. You have done a
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: good job. job so far. We will go to Mexico
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: when this is over. Tell Howard to stop talking so
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: goddamn much. We don't need him. We got Decker all
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: planned out. He is as good as dead. Don't do
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: anything nasty. They might not have told you, but I
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: think Lee done all the shooting. They know a lot,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: but not all. We are bringing it with us. Don't
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: get scared like Lee. He did the job, but not
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: all of it. He didn't get Johnson. We will take
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: care of Connolly before we see you. Look for us.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: There will be four. And this was circled. Signed, L.C. Joe?
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: Who do you think is L.C.? Someone in... Oh, Larry Cranford.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Good guess. Very good guess. Unfortunately, he was not in
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Fort Worth. How about Lynn Carlin?
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Possibly. Possibly. Allegedly. Maybe. Seems kind of odd, right? Considering
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: she was arrested, just arrested, you know, at the trial
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: for bringing a gun there for whatever reason. Okay, so
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Sheriff Decker stated the original of the above letter has
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: not been shown to Jack Ruby, and Decker did not
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: give any indication that it would be shown to Ruby,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: who is an inmate in the Dallas County Jail at
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: the present time, charged with the murder of Lee Oswald,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: accused assassin of JFK. Decker retained the original of the above,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: and he advised that he is cognizant of its content,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: and further, excuse me, he made the contents of this
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: letter available to appropriate state and local authorities. So they're
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: taking this serious. I mean, this is a A threat, basically. And,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: of course, this is an FBI document, so the FBI
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: is aware of it. And it says the content of
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: this letter was discussed with the Assistant U.S. Attorney B.H.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Timkins on December 20, 1963, in consultation with the U.S.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Attorney Barefoot Sanders. They advised that Special Agent Kenneth Howell,
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: from the language and tenor of the letter... It appeared
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: that the writer or person depositing the letter in the
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: mail may have intended to convey a threat to injure
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: or kill Lyndon Johnson, John Connolly, and Bill Decker. Assistant
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: State's Attorney Timpkins advised further, as believed by him and Sanders,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: that an investigation should be conducted to attempt to determine
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: the identity of the person or persons causing the letter
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: to be delivered and the intent of such person concerning
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: the possible threats contained in the letter in order that
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: a positive determination could be made in this case. So
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: they are investigating this threat. They are taking it seriously.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: They're letting everybody mentioned in there be it known.
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: Okay?
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: Be it known.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Be it known. And here is where Miss Karen Lynn Carlin,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: or LC, comes into the picture. Okay? She lives in
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Fort Worth, Joe, which is a dead giveaway.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: But she advised that she did not have to make
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: a statement, or she was advised that she did not
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: have to make a statement, that any statement that she
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: could make could be used against her in court, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Miranda writes, yeah.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: She advised she is known as Karen Lynn Bennett, Karen Carlin,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Lynn Carlin, LC, Mrs. Bruce Ray Carlin, and Little Lynn.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Carlin stated in the past that she has been employed
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: as an exotic dancer or stripper and that she has
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: performed in the Carousel Club formerly operated by Jack Ruby.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Carlin said she was called as a defense witness at
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: a bond hearing for Ruby. On December 23rd, she stated
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: at that time a Dallas County sheriff found an old
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: pistol in her pocketbook. As the result of finding this weapon,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: she received considerable publicity in connection with the Jack Ruby trial.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Carlin stated that it was an old gun that was unloaded,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: which she had placed in her purse, on some unrecalled date,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: and she had just totally forgotten that the gun was
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: in her purse, Joe. I mean, you know, as one does. Yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it's not out of the realm
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: of possibility, like a 1% chance, but yes, that's very sus.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Carlin had denied that she had anything to do whatsoever
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: with the writing of a letter directed to Jack Ruby
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: being postmarked December 3rd from Fort Worth. Carlin stated that
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: she had never had any information enmity toward Ruby and
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: under no circumstances would she write a letter to Ruby.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Carlin stated she has always endeavored to be a law
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: abiding and under no circumstances would she want to become
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: involved with the violation of the law in any way.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: I'll show you my titties though. Carlin said she has
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: known Jack Ruby for approximately 18 months and worked for
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: him at the Carousel Club where she performed under the
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: name of Little Lynn, a member, 5'3, 108 pounds, for
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: a period of two or three months prior to November 63.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Carlin said she's expecting the birth of a baby within
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: the next few months, and for that reason, she has
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: not been performing as an entertainer. And further, her husband,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: Bruce Carlin, does not desire her to perform as an
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: exotic dancer anymore since that's going to be the mama
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: of his baby. He don't want his mother or his
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: baby to be a horror stripper. Why would you? Carlin
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: said she knows there are several people living in Fort
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Worth at the present time who have lived in Fort
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Worth who regard her as an enemy. And she felt
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: any one of these people could have written that type
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: letter to Jack Ruby on December 3rd, 63. Carlin said
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: her best suspect would be an individual by the name
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: of Jerry Harris Bunker. Oh, Jerry Harris, whom she and
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: her husband suspect is having made several telephone calls to
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the Carlin residence within the past few weeks attempting to
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: cause trouble between the Carlins. Carlin said she and Bruce
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: have received seven or eight of these calls, and in
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: some instances, the caller has impersonated a woman's voice in
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: talking with Bruce, at which time the person made many
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: false claims against the reputation of Karen in trying to
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: cause friction between Karen and her husband. Carlin said she
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: is unable to account for the personal dislike many people
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: have for her. Maybe they're all just jealous of me, Joe,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: because I'm so beautiful. I'm little. I'm little Lynn. except
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: she had taken the boyfriends of several other girls, which
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: has led to considerable jealousy on the part of these girls.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Carlin continued, another person who may have written such a
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: letter would be one Joy Dale, who was recently married
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: and is now four months pregnant. Seems to be a
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: trend here. Dale is located somewhere in the state of
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Minnesota at this time, possibly Minneapolis. Carlin says she believed
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Dale was writing to Jack Ruby at one time, although
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: she had no reason to believe there was any animosity
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: between Dale and Ruby. She stated another individual who may
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: have written the letter would be one Pat Kirkwood, who
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: operates a tavern in Fort Worth known as The Cellar.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Carlin said Kirkwood has a shady reputation in Fort Worth,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: and she wouldn't put it past him to write such
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: a letter, although she did not know of any animosity
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: between Kirkwood and Ruby. Carlin said any of the above
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: persons in addition to other girls whom she has met
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: in her profession has a strong dislike for Carlin and
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: any of these people could have written such a letter
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: to get even with her. Carlin said with regard to
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: her marriage to Bruce, they are not actually married and
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: have been living together for several months as common law
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: man and wife.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: Interesting.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: A.K.A. live-in boyfriend or live-in girlfriend or Whatever.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: Whatever arrangement they had. Yeah, not a good one. Or
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: pimp hoe.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Carlin said she was first married when she was 14
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: years old, Joe. And she, right at this point in time,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: does not know where in the hell her parents are.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Right. So, a runaway child, if you will.
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: she must've gained a little weight, uh, by the time
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: she got arrested. But at the point that she furnished
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: this statement, uh, she says she was five foot one,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: 92 pounds, dark blonde hair, blue eyes, fair complected, good teeth, uh,
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: set with seventh grade education, hot and dumb. That's the
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: way we like him around here. Uh, Larry Bennett, which
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: is where the Bennett name comes from, uh, was her
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: previous husband. I guess who she married when she was
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: 14 years old. Obviously after she graduated from seventh grade.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Because you gotta wait. At least until they graduate seventh grade.
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: At least.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, at least.
• 29:15
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: God.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, anyway. Carlin voluntarily furnished handwriting samples after she had
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: been advised she did not have to furnish any, but
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: she did anyway. And further, that she had the right
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: to consult an attorney before furnishing such specimens. Right?
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: That's an interesting wording.
• 29:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Now old bruce old brucey carlin was advised that he
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: did not have to make a statement he was read
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: as miranda rights in other words uh he advised that
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: he's at the present time he's living as common law
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: man and wife with karen lynn carlin Carlin stated he
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: is unable to furnish any information which might assist in
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: identifying the person who wrote the letter to Jack Ruby.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Carlin said in the last few weeks he and Karen
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: have been receiving telephone calls, basically he telling the same
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: story as her, blaming the same people, such as this
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Jerry Harris Bunker dude. Carlin has said he heard some
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: mutual friends state that Bunker is a quote, odd individual.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Carlin said that with the exception of Jerry Bunker, he
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: doesn't know anybody else who might have written a letter
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: to Jack Ruby at the Dallas County Jail in Fort Worth, Texas. Okay.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: So they go talk to old dickhead Jerry Harris Bunker,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: the asshole, the guy who might have written this letter.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: He was advised of his rights as well. He operates
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: a drug service, Joe, and works out of his house.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Is that legal?
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, do they mean like pharmaceuticals?
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Either way, he's selling drugs out of
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: his house.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I wouldn't.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Illegally or illegally. One of the two.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't be surprised if it was illegal.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: And the type of guy this is, Joe, probably illegal.
• 31:15
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I got some uppers and I got some downers. When
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: you're down, I got something that'll bring you back up.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: And when you're up, I got something that'll bring you
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: back down. I got whatever you need.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Gotta maintain the balance.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: So Bunker said that he was at a loss to
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: understand who would write a letter of this type. He
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: advised he is unable to furnish the identity of any
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: person who may have written this letter. He said he
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: knows Karen Lynn Carlin and her husband Bruce and his
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: friendship with these people has continued on a friendly basis
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: for some time. Bunker was advised that he didn't have
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: to furnish any handwriting specimens that blah blah blah. He
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: had no objection to furnishing any specimens, and he desired
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: to clear up any suspicions whatsoever that he may have
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: written a letter to Jack Ruby. And further, he would
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: voluntarily furnish handwriting specimens for examination in connection with this letter.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: He is a white guy, 5'8, 170, dark and gray
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: at the temples like Joe.
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: Mm-mm.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Blue eyes, fair complexion, good teeth, no scars or marks.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: He has a wife named Barbara Bunker, but they're separated.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: And his parents are Frank and June. They live in
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: the Imperial Terrace Apartments of Fort Worth, Texas, baby. So
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: by communication, Dallas runners to the FBI lab. A copy
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: of this letter directed to Jack Ruby, along with handwriting
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: specimens from Karen Carlin, and Jerry Bunker. The FBI lab
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: was also requested to compare the handwriting appearing in question
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: letter with known handwriting of Curtis Laverne Crayford.
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: Joe?
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: A.K.A. Larry Crayford.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: L.C.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Another L.C.
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: So by communication of January 30th, the FBI lab advised
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: Dallas as follows.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: Let's see.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Photocopy of an envelope postmarked Fort Worth, blah, blah, blah, Mr.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Jack Ruby, blah, blah, blah, two sheets of paper bearing
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: handwriting of Karen Carlin, two sheets of paper bearing handwriting
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: of Jerry Bunker. The results. Let's see. Oh, okay. So
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: the envelope or whatever, or the letter was not identified
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: in the anonymous letter file. Appropriate photographs will be added
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: to this file. It was concluded that the letter written
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: was not written by the writers of K-1 or K-2,
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: which were Karen Carlin and Jerry Bunker. So they both
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: were exonerated by handwriting specialists. By communication of January 30th,
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: the FBI lab advised Dallas that it was concluded that
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: the question letter received by Jack Ruby was not written
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: by Curtis Crayford either. So they all three got clear
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: to this, Joe.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: But it was a hubbub. It was a hubbub. Decker
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: feels like it was a prank and it was blown
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: out of proportion. But you still got to investigate it, right?
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Got to. Just in case it was meant to be real.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: But I'm sure they were getting flooded with a lot
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: of kook letters back in the day. Written by both
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: two men. The Dallas police, the district attorneys, Jack Ruby,
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: letters of support, letters of anger, kook letters. And, you know,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: you got to run them down. You got to run
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: them down. Let's go back here. And this is regarding
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: an unknown ute, Joe, in a late model black convertible.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: Driving on Central Expressway, Dallas, Texas, at 1.25 p.m. on
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: November 22, 1963. He just sounded sus, apparently.
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: A little bit over an hour, essentially, after the assassination.
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: So the following letter was received by the Dallas office
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: on March 10, 1964. Gentlemen. On November 22, 1963, my
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: wife and I left the president's luncheon immediately upon hearing
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: of the assassination attempt. We then proceeded to Richardson, Texas
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: to get our children. We entered the Central Expressway at
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Northwest Highway at about 1.25 p.m., a short distance north
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: of Northwest Highway. On the expressway, I noticed a late
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: model black convertible going about 70 miles an hour, weaving
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: in and out of traffic. The license plate was Oklahoma 3763.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: The convertible top was loose and it rippled in the
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: breeze badly. There was a young man in the car alone.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Until the recent Times Herald article about a man fleeing
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: from the school book depository, I did not consider this
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: observation worthy. I have not mentioned this matter to anyone
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: and the event did not seem consequential as the automobile
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: seemed only a little more hurried, typical of some teenagers. Sincerely,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: the snitch, James R. Ellis. Ah, So they went and
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: interviewed James Ellis. He was unable to supply any more
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: information other than what he set forth in the March
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: 9th letter. He explained he was certain that this was
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: an Oklahoma license plate. He said that he recalled the
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: prefix 3-7 as a number worn by old Doak Walker
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: of the Southern SMU University, former All-American football player. You know,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: that's how he remembered the number, Joe. You know, he
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: associated it with a sports figure.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: Okay, well, I mean, it seems kind of random, but
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: also when you associate things that you know, numbers that
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: you know with other people, it is more likely that
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: you would remember it, right?
• 37:22
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, they got a follow-up on this lead, right? So
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: they contact the records clerk in Oklahoma, but They don't
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: begin with digit prefixes. She advised that last year such
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: tags were issued was 1962. However, commercial trucks and farm
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: trucks are issued tags with digit prefixes. She advised that
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: a 1962 Oklahoma license plate 371963 was registered to a
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: 53 Chevrolet two-door owner J.P. Morrow Jr. of Disney, Oklahoma.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: No relation to Walt, apparently. She advised that 1963 farm
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: truck license number 371963 was registered to a 1957 Chevy
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: half-ton pickup, which obviously was not the black convertible seen driving, right?
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, farm truck license. That's interesting.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Well, they went and talked to him anyway, and he said, yeah,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: I'm the former owner of that 1957 half-ton pickup truck
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: bearing 1963 Oklahoma license 371963.
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: Mr.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Trent stated that he had sold his vehicle to Arthur Hale,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: a rancher, down on Route 4 in Atoka, Oklahoma in
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: June of 63. He stated he did not know the
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: vehicle ID number in as much as the ownership papers
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: were given to Mr. Hale at the time that he
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: purchased the truck.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: Mr.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Trent stated that the 1963 Oklahoma license 371963 was in
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: fact on the vehicle when he sold it. So don't
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: come knocking around my door. So they go talk to
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Orville Hale. advised that he did buy a 1957 half-ton
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: pickup truck from Mr. Trent of Atoka, Oklahoma, in the
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: first part of June, which vehicle is still in the
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: possession of Mr. Hale. The license attached to this vehicle
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: when he purchased it had not been stolen or lost,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: but stated he replaced it with the 1964 Oklahoma license,
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: which instant vehicle now bears. So what is going on?
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: He said he removed the old license and had it destroyed.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Stated this vehicle has never been in Dallas and has
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: always been in his possession as it is the only
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: vehicle that he owns. Blah, blah, blah. Again, I think
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: they're running down the wrong license here, Joe.
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: And what that has to do with Karen Carlin, I
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: have no fucking idea. But it was in the file
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: with her, so I figured we'd talk about it. It
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: has no bearing whatsoever on anything. But, you know, you
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: never know. You don't know until you look, Joe.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: That is true. And that is what we'd like to
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: do here.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: You don't know until you look. So let's see here.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: All right, let's move a little forward in time here. Now,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: to tie it all back to this Teresa Norton figure,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: everybody thought that little Lynn, she basically had dropped off
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: the face of the earth after this last interview. And
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: then she changed her name to Teresa Norton.
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: The televised one.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The one we just saw. Right, right, right. Yeah. And,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: you know, because her husband Bruce was saying, hey, we
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: need to chill with you stripping now that you're my
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: baby mama, right? So it was thought that she stopped
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: stripping and became a housewife and a mother and changed
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: her name and went on through history, right? Well, apparently
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: at some point somebody thought that she changed her name
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: to Teresa Norton. And whoever this poor Teresa Norton is
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: that was found unalive in her vehicle by her own hand,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: people thought that that was Karen Carlins, a.k.a. Alias, if
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: you will. And that that was her demise for whatever reason.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: And like I said, there's really not a lot of
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: information out there on this. And then, apparently, in 1992,
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: researcher Gary Shaw claimed to have found Karen Carlin alive
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: and well. Allegedly. Right? So, let's jump forward a little bit.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: And to the time of the ARRB and take a
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: look at some things there.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Shit, I keep hitting the wrong button. Okay. Again, this
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: is a ARRB document. Yada, yada from the FBI. Talking
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: about Marjorie Ruth Norman of Irving, Texas. Divorce is in
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: progress with her husband, Omar. Marjorie has only associated with
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Ruby as employer and friend. This is another former stripper.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: No intimacies was questioned by the FBI. She will take
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: a polygraph test. She has known Ruby since October of 62.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: She was 19 years old at the time. So people
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: think that this is another alias of Little Lynn. Same
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: age and everything.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: Marjorie Norman.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Somebody did. I don't know who did, but this
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: is the background. Karen Lynn Bennett at Little Lynn. That's
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: her Fort Worth address. That's her phone number. Stripper at Carousel.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: They go through about this anonymous letter again. But here's
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: where it gets interesting. So there's a story in the
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Houston Post about Frank Sturgis. And on the night before
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Ruby killed Oswald, there was a party in Houston hosted
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: by a retired Houston police officer. One of the guests
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: was a woman from Dallas and left in double time
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: back to Dallas when the word reached her that Oswald
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: was to be moved. Her departing statement was, I've got
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: to go because Jack Ruby is going to kill Oswald.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: All right, that's what you call foreknowledge, folks, if I've
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: ever heard it.
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: None of us took it for more than a joke
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: at first, and then we all began to live in
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: fear when it really took place. The retired Houston police
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: officer was running a strip joint out on Jensen Drive,
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: where the old Epson Downs drive-in theater used to be.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: He was using teenage strippers, and depending on his badge buddies,
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: not to raid him, and they didn't. They just came
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: to look around, sniff around, and leave. He was trying
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: to get some new blood in from Dallas and get
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: one of his girls advanced to Dallas for a showing.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: Then when she came back here, he could use the publicity.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: He could use the publicity, too. The woman was the
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: head union operator of all strippers in Dallas. She was
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: built like an Amazon and drove a big car like
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: a Lincoln. Now, who does that sound like?
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to figure out what built like an A-M-I-Z-O-N means.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Amazon. Like, you know, Wonder Woman type. You know, a big, tall,
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: strong chick.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 45:46
  Speaker 7: Who?
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: The kind that can throw you around the bedroom. You
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: know what I mean? A thoroughbred, Joe.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: A thoroughbred.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: Obviously, you've never been with one. Well, I'll tell you
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: something about Big Bad Bob.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: Here we go.
• 46:01
  Speaker 7: He has.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: And let me tell you. It's pretty fun. Believe me.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: None of us other strippers ever got the private dressing
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: room and handle with kid gloves treatment that was given
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: to the one he was trying to promote. Baby doll
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: Holly was a real bomber in the business, but the
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: managers went for her mother. Check around in night trip
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: club businesses in Dallas and you will pick up there's
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: a connection between Ruby and Oswald before the killing. Following
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: an investigation was conducted to identify persons referred to in
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: the foregoing letter. So during the investigation of the shooting
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: of Oswald by Ruby, several interviews were had with a
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Carl Pepe, our goddamn Pepe Dolson, who was affiliated with
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: the American Guild of Variety Artists in Dallas prior to
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: and subsequent to the assassination. Dolson was well informed concerning
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: the identities of all strippers performing in Dallas and including
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: those who performed at Ruby's Carousel Club. That's all right, honey.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: You can just call me Pepe. He's approximately 78 years old.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: I can still get it hard, though. You better believe it.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: God damn, like a rock. Chevy stole that slogan from me. Me,
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: like a rock. And apparently, he was currently confined at
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: the Terrell State Hospital with severe mental difficulties. Well, this
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: is in 76, which is, of course, 13 years after
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: the assassination. But time, I guess, took its toll. Or
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: syphilis has taken its toll on poor Pappy. Pappy Dolson.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: You can just call me Pappy, sweetie. So then, again,
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Detective Joe Mulholland of the Intelligence Division of Dallas Was
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: advised the identity of the interviewing agent, the contents of
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: an anonymous letter mailed at Houston. Now, this is a
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: different letter than the Fort Worth letter. It was received
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: by FBI in July 76, alleging a connection between Ruby
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: and Oswald before Oswald killed was made known to him.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: Sorry for the confusion. This is a different letter, folks. So,
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: of course, the FBI is looking into it. The HSEA
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: is kicking off. And they're interested. But anyway, he suggested
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: that Nicky Joy, a stripper for Jack Ruby in 63
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: who was well acquainted with Jack, could likely be of assistance.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: He also suggested that retired Dallas Police Department detective Charles
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: Moore was also very knowledgeable concerning strippers operating in Dallas.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: I bet he was.
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, I bet he was just doing his due diligence.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, as one does.
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: Checking IDs, you know.
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: Yes, exactly.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: There was a woman who was the head union operator
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: of all strippers in 63. Carl Pappy Dawson was the
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: head of the American Guild of Variety Artists in Dallas
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: in 63 and handled the booking of practically all strippers.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: He does not recall any stripper ever operating in Dallas
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: using the name Baby Doll Holly. But Nikki Joy was
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: a well-known Dallas stripper in 63 who was well acquainted
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: with Jack Ruby. She was the... She may have been
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: the individual referred to in the anonymous letter as being
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: built like an Amazon who drove a big car, but
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: he does not recall her ever being considered the head
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: union operator. He expressed the view that the anonymous letter
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: does not appear to have been written by anyone who
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: was well informed on the stripper business in Dallas. Abe Weinstein.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: I believe he was the owner and operator of Abe's
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Colony Club next door to Ruby's Carousel Club where Beverly
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: Oliver famously was a teenage lounge singer, right? Allegedly. And
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: he knew Pappy Dolson well because, you know, he used
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: strippers in his spot too. And he suggested that a
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: stripper who worked for Ruby by the name of Nikki
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: Joy would likely be helpful in identifying individuals referred to
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: in the letter. He is firmly convinced that Jack Ruby
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: and Lee Oswald did not know each other. He considered
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Ruby to be a publicity seeker. He feels when Ruby
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: saw all the activity in the basement, he saw an
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: opportunity to make a name for himself and without considering
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: the consequences acted on the spur of the moment. He
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: has always considered Ruby to be jealous of his colony club,
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: which Weinstein operated in competition with Ruby's Carousel Club. Weinstein
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: was well acquainted with Wally Weston, a former master of
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: ceremonies at Ruby's Carousel Club in 1963, who recently was
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: reported in the news media to have said that he
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: knew Ruby and Oswald were acquainted. Weston also worked for
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: Weinstein in 1963, and because he was believed to be
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: using drugs, and because of his untruthfulness, he was fired
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: by Weinstein. Weinstein stated that he would put absolutely zero
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: credence in anything that Weston has to say because he
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: is nothing but a goddamn publicity seeker and drug addict. Allegedly.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Dick Leonard, owner and manager of Joan Frank Productions, was
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: advised of the identity of the interviewing agent, the contents
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: of an anonymous letter mailed to Houston, blah, blah, blah.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: has furnished the following information. Since 1934, he has operated
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: his agency business as Joan Frank Productions. He quit booking
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: strippers in 1956. He is not familiar with the identities
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: of today's strippers. What he does know is that he
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: knew one called Lillian McArdle, and she was built like
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: an Amazon and drove a big car, and Jack Ruby
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: would likely have known her. McCarter was never lived in Dallas,
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: but was well-known in Houston because she maintained a large
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: home in Houston where many of her strippers lived, and
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: she would frequently go on road engagements with some of
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: her strippers within the state of Texas. McCarter is now
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: believed to be dead. Nikki Joy, she keeps coming up here,
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: was a well-known stripper in Dallas in 1963 and would
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: likely be an excellent source concerning identities of individuals mentioned
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: in the anonymous letters. He knew Jack Ruby from time
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: to time, came to Dallas. Ruby had a violent temper.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: Ruby frequently asked Leonard for business advice. He had no
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: conversation with Ruby. After the assassination, he does not believe
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: Ruby shot Oswald to prevent Jackie Kennedy from coming back
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: to Dallas to testify. He has always had a gut
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: feeling that Oswald was hired to kill Kennedy and Ruby
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: was hired to shoot Oswald. Sounds like a conspiracy theorist
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: to me.
• 53:17
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: He added that he also has been suspicious of where
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: Oswald was going when he shot J.D. Tippett and has
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: speculated that Oswald may have been on his way to
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: Ruby's house not far away. Leonard emphasized he had no
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: proof whatsoever of this gut feeling but wanted to make
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: his feelings known. Yeah, many of us have had that
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: gut feeling, Leonard.
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: Very interesting. Alright, so let's break off from this stuff
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: now there was a couple strippers who allegedly met untimely
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: devices uh and were in unfortunate circumstances if you will
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: now one that we've talked about on the show before
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: is nancy mooney right who obviously had some issues going
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: on with a certain boyfriend Named Dago, who you may
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: all remember. And she ended up dead in a Dallas
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: County jail cell, allegedly by her own hand as well,
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: in early 64.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: Hanging, right, for a pretty minor charge. I don't remember
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: what the charge was.
• 54:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: They are coming for us tonight, boy.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: Oh, I know. I've already had to refresh. My screen
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: goes black, and I have to close it. I open it,
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: and then I refresh, and I'm back in like 10 seconds.
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: Oof.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: Are we back? Can you hear me, Joe?
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: I can now, yes. Are we back?
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: We are.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: What in the hell's going on, dude?
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, this is, you know, there are challenges
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: with live potting, and we, through a matrix attack or not,
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: deal with them, and we just roll with the punches, right?
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Bastards.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: Bastards.
• 56:22
  Speaker 7: Bastards.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: All right, I had one more thing to talk about here,
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: and then I'm going to turn it over to you.
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: I just have.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: To find it now. Everything went screwball-y.
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: Man, that's some bullshit.
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: Hold on.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: Okay. Holy Hannah.
• 57:01
  Speaker 5: Alright.
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: Alright, so this next piece here is designed to give
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: you an insight into the world of Jack Ruby, Hoes, Strippers,
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: and Pimps. And an unlikely connection that not very many
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: people saw coming. Believe it or not.
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: Conspiracy or coincidence.
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: All right, Joe, are you ready for this?
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: Old Plyer Nuts is about ready to take us away here.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: Take it away, Mark Lane.
• 57:49
  Speaker 7: This is Sunday afternoon.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: We're at a deserted construction site in Arlington, Texas, about
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: 19 miles from Dallas, with Harold Williams.
• 58:05
  Speaker 8: Mr.
• 58:05
  Speaker 7: Williams, have you ever met Jack Ruby?
• 58:10
  Speaker 8: Well, in November, the beginning of November, in the year
• 58:14
  Speaker 8: that President Kennedy was assassinated, I did see Jack Ruby
• 58:21
  Speaker 8: outside a club in North Dallas, the McCarter Club, I
• 58:26
  Speaker 8: was in there having some fun at the party.
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 58:31
  Speaker 8: And we were to see some girls, which Jack Ruby
• 58:35
  Speaker 8: was to.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: Punish for us.
• 58:38
  Speaker 8: And we were to drink, sit around, have a good time.
• 58:43
  Speaker 8: This was a club where both white and colored attended
• 58:48
  Speaker 8: here in Dallas. And it was well known as an
• 58:51
  Speaker 8: after-hours spot. I was in one of the various rooms
• 58:57
  Speaker 8: that they have there with a girl talking and smoking.
• 59:02
  Speaker 8: And when this guy, dressed in plain clothes, came in
• 59:08
  Speaker 8: and very roughly told me the sentence, down. Out of
• 59:11
  Speaker 8: nowhere came a bunch of guys that began to rough
• 59:13
  Speaker 8: me up. Then I was taken handcuffed.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: To a car.
• 59:19
  Speaker 8: It was an ordinary car. It was not a police car.
• 59:26
  Speaker 8: I could use the word, it was an off-duty car.
• 59:31
  Speaker 8: And I began to take notice of who was in
• 59:32
  Speaker 8: the car, their faces, and trying to hear names. And
• 59:37
  Speaker 8: from the driver of the car, who was a fellow
• 59:41
  Speaker 8: of a small stature, I would say about four or five, eight,
• 59:48
  Speaker 8: called a guy that was sitting on the right-hand side,
• 59:52
  Speaker 8: not on the driver's side, but on the passenger's side
• 59:54
  Speaker 8: in the front seat, called him and said, hey, Ruth,
• 59:57
  Speaker 8: why we didn't get you in this? They said, well,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 8: you've got to know somebody. They talked about various things
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 8: on the way. Mostly, the conversation was where I couldn't
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 8: too much hear it. I never heard the guy called
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 8: Rude call the.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: Can I pause it, folks? We're back. Or I'm back.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know about Joe.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: We're out here.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, here we go.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 8: When we got downtown, the, uh, the guy that was
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 8: knew that it was the Jack Ruby who had punished
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 8: us many times, punished girls for us at the various
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 8: clubs where we would have a party. Uh, came on
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 8: into the station with us.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: Went into a room and began to.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 8: Be asked our names and so forth like that and
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 8: began to be booked. Well, at that time I was
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 8: booked for.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 8: Resistant arrest, violation of curfew and.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 8: Narcotics And subsequently I was put into a jail cell.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 8: After that time, it began to happen. My roommate was
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 8: watching TV. I came in, I began to watch TV also.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 8: And they were replaying the killing of Oswald. And I said, man,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 8: when did this happen? This happened this morning, I guess.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 8: I said, man, this guy actually killed him on TV.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 8: He was right on TV. So they began to show
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 8: different pictures of Oswald. the people involved, Tippett and all
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 8: of them, and as I sat there, I looked, and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 8: I said.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: Well, I've seen this guy before.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 8: This Tippett guy said, I've seen him before. He said, oh, man,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 8: you haven't seen him?
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: I said, yes, I have. I've seen him before.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 8: I said, you remember that night when I was arrested
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 8: over there at the McCarter Club? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 8: I remember. I said, what? That guy Tippett was the
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 8: guy that was driving the car, and Ruby was in
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 8: the front seat with him.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 7: I said, man, they're friends.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 8: He said, what?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 7: I said, they are friends.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 6: Mr.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 7: Williams, are you sure that the two men in the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 7: front seat of that unmarked police car, early November 1963,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 7: were Officer J.D.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: Tippett and Jack Ruby?
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 7: I am sure.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 8: I have no doubt and I have no qualms about
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 8: this at all.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: Mr.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 7: Williams, what was Jack Ruby's relationship to the Mercado Club?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 8: Well, he would punish the girls for the show that
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 8: we had over there. Everybody would, that was one of
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 8: the things that he would do. Everybody would come in,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 8: including police officers, they would.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 7: Come in and see the show.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 9: Frankly, everything went on over there. Like, I mean, dope.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 8: I mean, you could, you know what I mean? You
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 8: could light a weed, you know, if you wanted one.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: You could get booze.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 8: Or you could buy a bra if you wanted to
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 8: buy one.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 7: You could buy one then.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: You could buy a bra.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: Any kind you wanted.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 8: You could buy a color or you could buy a
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 8: white one.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 7: Since November 24th, of course, you've seen pictures of Jack Ruby. And,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 7: of course, you've seen pictures of Officer J.D.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: Tippett.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: Is there any doubt in.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 7: Your mind that the two men you saw in the.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: Car That evening in November, were.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 9: Jack Ruby and Officer J.D.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: Tippett? There's no doubt in it.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 8: They were Jack Ruby and Officer J.D. Tippett. When I
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 8: saw J.D. Tippett driving the car, I saw Jack Ruby
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 8: sitting in the car with him. And this happened all
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 8: the way from McCarter Club on Thomas Avenue to the
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 8: city jail downtown Maine and Harwood. I had plenty of
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 8: time to observe, and these are the men that I observed.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: So say it, Harry Williams.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: Well, I have to say, seems pretty credible to me. Yeah.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: I'd be willing to bet ten bucks that that was
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: a cool he pulled out of his pocket.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that. You can go to the weeds
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: and buy a broad.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: You can spark a weed if you want to. You
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: can buy a broad, black or white, no matter.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: So assuming his account is correct, and of course we
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: cannot say definitively it is, that would be a big problem.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: Like, a really big problem.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: Now apparently, rumor has it that this is an outtake
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: from Rush to Judgment movie. It was not in the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: final cut. For whatever reason. I don't know. Maybe it
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: was just because it was a fantastical story, and of
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: course at the time it mentioned weed and drugs and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: pimping and hoes and everything else, but who knows? But
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: it does kind of match up to what Jack Ruby
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: has been accused of, which is supplying girls for different things,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: pimping them out, and Bruce Carlin being a big pimp
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: in the Fort Worth area and supplying girls for parties
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: and strippers and everything else.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm sure much more was going on than
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: we know. You know, they did hold a lot of
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: information back. Seedy stuff like that back then.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: If it didn't have any direct bearing on the investigation.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: Very different from today, huh? Yeah, very different. When you
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: think about this Cornell case that's in the news, I
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: don't know if you've seen this. No holding back on
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: that story. Sheesh.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: It's crazy out there. Back in the 60s, if there
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: was a buck to be made off of his girls,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: I'm sure Jack Ruby would take it. Just saying.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: And I'm sure some of the girls would take it
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: if they wanted more work or were willing to do
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 4: more work.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, nothing much has changed since the beginning
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: of time, okay?
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: That's true. Not in that aspect, at least.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: Women have needs. Men have needs. Women know that men
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: have needs and Men are willing to pay to get
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: their needs taken care of. So, whether it be walking
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: down the street in some suggestive clothing. And I'm not
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: saying there's anything wrong with this. I think it should
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: be totally legal. But, that's my opinion. Or whether it
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: be in a strip club. You know, you pay for
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: the VIP room. Things happen. Sometimes after... Sometimes things happen
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: after the club closes down and Big Bad Bob might
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: drive 45 minutes to another town and proceed to stay
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: up all night and party with three strippers. Allegedly. But
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: that's besides the point, Joe.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: Especially if you have off-duty cops coming in after or
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: after their ships, or maybe after even the club is
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: supposed to close, or you go to a late-night lounge
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: like the Gay 90s, or maybe you take them back
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: to the Six Flags. Like, all needs are met if
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: there's a price to it, right?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, if Ruby was a smart guy,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: he would have movie cameras in such rooms that cops
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: and strippers hook up in. As a get-out-of-jail-free card, if
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. Oh, you want to shut
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: me down? Well, let me show you something here, bud.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: I've got a couple copies of these and some safety
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: deposit boxes if you decide you want to take me down.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: Have a look at this. Maybe your wife would like
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: to see this movie.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: It might have been a little early for that type
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: of blackmail operation. It's like right on the edge.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: Or at least somebody taking pictures through the window.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you could do that.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: Who knows? I'm just throwing it out there. I wouldn't
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: put it past somebody like Ruby. to somehow get the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: odds in his favor when it comes to doing these
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: odd things. Now, one thing that does not make sense
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: to me about Harold Williams' testimony here is the fact
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: that Tippett came in and busted him and then drove
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: him and Jack Ruby down to the police station. And
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: he was calling Jack Ruby Rubes, like a nickname, like
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: they knew each other.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 7: Rubes.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: So why is Tippett bringing this dude down to the
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: police station for indulging in Jack Ruby's strippers? Right.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: Unless he was trying to control the situation.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: Or this guy was acting up in there, and Ruby
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: may have called him and said, hey, man, come get
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: this guy out of here. Like, he won't leave this
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: woman alone, or he's too high, or whatever the case
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: may be.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: He got a little weed.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He wants all the white women. We just can't
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: give him all the white women. Sorry.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: But it's a weird story. And like I said, she's
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: not the only one who's alleged to have met her
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: early demise. But again, and I don't know what corroboration
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: Gary Shaw has that he supposedly found little Lynn in 92.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: Maybe he did.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: Maybe he didn't. He's also the guy that alleged Beverly
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: Oliver is the babushka lady. So, who knows? I don't
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: know what the real truth is here behind this whole
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: little Lynn thing. And you have to think that because
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: of the Western Union setup and the timing of everything,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: you know, she states when interviewed, well, you know, I
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: called him. It was like 1025. He said he was
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: sitting around the house in his tighty-whities. But that he
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: needed to come to town anyway. And that he would
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: Western Union her some money. Since he wasn't going to
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: be open that night. And she needed the money. Whatever.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: And it somehow. In the span of you know. 30
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: or 40 minutes. Ruby got himself ready. Got dressed. Got
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: some money together. Went down to the Western Union and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: sent it. And then spontaneously. Decided that it was a
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: good time. To go over to the. police headquarters and
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: be right in the nick of time to just happen
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: to be able to take out Lee Harvey Oswald as
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: they're leading him out.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: Which is of course sus. So did Ruby use this
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: whole Carlin thing as an excuse or did they set
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: up something beforehand as an excuse to be downtown at
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: this time? I don't know. It's odd behavior.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it's impossible.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because before Ruby went into the basement, he had
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: locked his trunk key in the glove compartment box. And
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: inside his trunk was a large sum of cash. I
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: think it was, what, $ 8, 000 or something like that?
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was in that range, I believe.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: Which, of course, times by 10 is a lot of money.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: It's just....
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Especially if you know you're going to go on
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: some mission that's probably going to get you locked up
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: for a very, very long time.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: Or shot and killed.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: Or shot and killed. Maybe it was like an advanced payoff.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: Who knows? It's one of the enduring mysteries, the enduring
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: secrets of Jeff Crudell. The enduring mysteries of the Kennedy assassination.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know. It's just odd. And, you know, people
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: like to put Jada at her death as kind of
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: related to this, but I don't believe she passed away
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: until like the early 80s.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: A car accident or a motorcycle accident or something.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: Something odd like that.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: And you've got to remember, right? These stripper type of
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: girls are usually coming from broken families. They're probably addicted
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 4: to whatever. Chances are that they're going to meet some
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: fateful demise shorter than the average person.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and let's face it. Back then... They were being
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: trafficked around the South.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: Whether you want to call it trafficking or not, that's
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: what they did. They would travel around from club to
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: club because everybody loves fresh meat, right?
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, variety, yeah.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: Variety is the spice of life, you know? So once
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: people get tired of seeing Little Lennon in Dallas, then
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: maybe you should go work in New Orleans for a
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: couple months.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: Right, or Houston.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: And then come back to Houston for a couple months.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: And then by the time she gets back to Dallas, she's,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: you know, the novelties wore off and she's new again
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: to a new audience. So the AVGA, or the union,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: is basically trafficking these strippers around the South like, you know,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: a commodity. Trafficking them, essentially. And they were also then
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: individually controlled by numerous club owners and pimps and forced
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: to do probably a lot of things they didn't want
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: to do. Maybe some things they did want to do.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 5: Probably both.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because, you know, these guys could make money off
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: of the girls and they used them and abused them,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: not just for sex, but for money as well. Drug mules,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: you name it.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: And if you have the protection as in like you're
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: serving with the cops, yeah, you're serving the police. And
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: I say that in air quotes for the audio listener listeners, um,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: you know, they could get away with much more.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: So, Oh yes. All right, Joe, let's hear about midget assassins.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: Well, you pretty much, uh, we, we will, we'll get there. Um,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: You can put up my PowerPoint here. Actually, but before
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: you do, I saw something earlier. Toops said he is
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: in New York from Australia.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 8: Oh.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 4: Hit a homie up.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: He is currently on the upside instead of underneath.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: He's not down under anymore. He is up over.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: Welcome to America, Toopsy, where the toilets flushed a different way.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, they definitely do in Europe.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: Well, he's not from Europe.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: No, no, in Australia, right. But I'm saying in my
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: experiences in Europe, those toilets flush differently as well.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: They also use different plugs.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: All right, one more comment before I start. Scott Edwards said,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: and I guess in regards to the Williams video, the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: Tippett ID is the tough part, as there weren't many
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: photos of him available, making certainty less likely.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 4: Maybe, but I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: If there were no... I mean, you have to think
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: there were photos of Tippett in the newspapers, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: But if there weren't that many available, then the ID
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 4: would be even more significant, but I think there were
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: probably tons of pictures around of Tippett. Probably the same
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: one that we're used to seeing, right?
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the big goofy in his police uniform.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: Let me just see.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 8: All right.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: So, all right, you can put that back up. So
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 4: I'm going to talk a little bit about Jim Cody,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: George Senada, Tom Hauer, Bill Hunter. Oh.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 6: You're muted.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: Hold on. Bless this button. Thank you, Snader. 20 bucks.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: Appreciate it, brother.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much, guys.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 8: Sir.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Mr. Snader. It almost looked like Senator.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: Maybe George Senator's long-lost grandson.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: Right. Come on, George.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: Go over.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: And Jim Martin, who is the... Give me one second.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: What in the Sam Hades is going on here? Oh,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: Joe is gone again. Sorry about this broadcast. I don't
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: know what's going on. Mine cuts out, then his will
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: cut out. Then mine will cut out and his will
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: cut out.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: It's a Mr. Fuck.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: It really is. I don't know if it's Evemux or something.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: And someone asked if we were on 5G or 4G.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: When I cut out, it's my internet. I can see
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: the little symbol at the bottom of the computer. It's
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: not Evemux. I reset my router like an hour before
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: the show started just to make sure this doesn't happen.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: I've got Verizon like the best plan you can have,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: you know, 150 megabyte downloads or whatever, you know, the
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: $ 150 a month plan, whatever that is, it's the best
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: one you can have.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: It's not cheap.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: Because I use internet a lot, obviously.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: Obviously.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: Uh, who knows? Maybe a targeted attack.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: It's happening to both of us.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: Yes. Um, So sorry about that, guys. You can put
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 4: that back up now, Rob.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: Shit, man. Hold on. You keep disappearing from the damn list.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 4: Well, I have to reshare every time I restart.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: No, but your screen share thing keeps coming off of
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: the thing. I've got to re-add you.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: Oh, let me add it now. Oh, wait a minute.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: What is going on, dude? What is going on? Where
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: is you? Okay.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: Where is you? That's a good question.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: Ah, damn. Alright, so... I will say George Senator. I
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: don't know how he got them waves and curls in
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: that head of his, but good lord.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: He's the second from the left, if you're viewing on YouTube.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: Jack Ruby must have loved to run his fingers through
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: George Senator's hair.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe it's the baby oil wrong.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: Maybe. A little baby on a wave cap never hurt nobody.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 6: No.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: So, Jim, I want to say Kothi, but it's pronounced Cody,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: I believe.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: The D is silent.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: Reporter for the Dallas Time-Herald who was actively researching the
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: assassination and was allegedly preparing to write a book. He
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: was one of the five people that attended the meeting.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: in Jack Ruby's apartment the night of November 24th, the
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: night Ruby shot Oswald. On September 11th, 1964, Kothi was
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: found dead in his apartment shortly before the publication of
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: the Warren Commission report.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: Three days before.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is, of course, the story of the,
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: what do they call him, the pinted man, what was it?
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: Pint-sized man. A midget assassin.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 4: And you can see he doesn't look like he's in
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: bad shape. I think he was 30.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, man, but if you get strangled by a
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: little person and you.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 3: That's just a bad way to go, man.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: The cause of death was asphyxiation due to a broken
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: neck bone, the result of strangulation, or a blow to
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: the neck, right? That's the the famous karate chop. The
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 4: apparent motive was robbery. The apartment was ransacked. A 22-year-old
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: ex-con named Larry Earl Reno was arrested within a week
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: when he was caught trying to sell Cody's personal effects.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: Not a smart midget.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: No. I would love to see that arrest photo.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: Where's that mugshot?
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right. Reno was not indicted. although shortly afterwards he
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: was in prison for another offense. Cody's notes never showed up,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: and there is no way of knowing if they contained
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: anything of substance.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: So he got away with it?
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he did not. He was not charged in prison
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 4: for that crime. It might have been a probation. I
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: have it later here.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 5: I believe.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: So I'm going to be jumping through this Fair Play
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: issue article. It's actually from the 90s. But this was
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: written by, let me just give this guy credit, Richard Alcorn.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 4: Penn Jones' biggest reportorial coup. is unquestionably his discovery of
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 4: a series of mysterious deaths, possibly related to the assassination
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: of the president, that he would print, and when practically
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 4: nobody was printing anything but kudos for Earl Warren and company,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: and print in the Dallas area. It was a sign
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 4: of hope for the survival of independent journalism. Jones' first
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: scoop was the story of a meeting at Jack Ruby's
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: apartment on Sunday, November 24, 1963, several hours after Ruby
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: was shot and killed, in dpt headquarters in the original
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 4: editorial he disclosed that three of the five present at
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: the meeting jim cody bill hunter and tom howard have
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: died mysterious deaths we're.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: Gonna get there hey joe i found a smoke shot
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: no yeah here it is all right jamie hold on
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: Midget Assassin, Larry Earl Reno.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: Is that what came up when you Googled that?
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: You know, you never know what you're going to find
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: when you Google midget mug shots.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 4: Googling midget mug shots is like a box of chocolate
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 4: that you never know what you're going to get.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: No, could be dangerous.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 6: So....
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 4: He disclosed that three of the five have died serious
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: deaths of the survivors. Jim Martin, who currently, curiously enough,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 4: represented the accused killer of Cody and got him off
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 4: without prosecution, is still practicing law in Dallas. So that,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 4: and this is an article, so I can't say it's
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: 100% true. I'm going to follow up on this for
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: members only to like double check that. But if that's true.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 3: So wait, Jim Martin represented the midgets.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: Wow. That's a wild turn of events.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: According to this article, right? It was published in 90s,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 4: 1996 at ramparts. So like I said, I can't, I'm
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 4: not putting my reputation that it's true, but it, If so,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 4: that is a problem. Wow. He's still practicing law in Dallas.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: Senator at this writing is living in upstate New York.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: There you go, Joe. He's in the Catskills.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 4: He's in the Catskills.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: Padding out.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 4: He has said repeatedly he has feared for his life's fears.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: On some property owned by the Borellis, allegedly.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 4: Okay. That would be great. I would have hit him
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: out just to get his... I bet he would love Ruby.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: The dog, not the person.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 4: He would have got a kick out of that.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: Come here, Ruby. Let me pet you. My name's George.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 3: George Senator.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 4: I don't know if Ruby would have let George pet her.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: Come here. It's just a little baby oil doggy dog.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: Come here.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 4: Ruby has enough curls. Don't worry.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: Come say hi to Uncle George.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 4: These were not the only ones who have died mysteriously,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: who possess crucial scraps of knowledge about the killings of
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 4: President Kennedy, Officer J.D. Tippett, or Lee Harvey Oswald. At
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 4: least ten such persons are known to have been murdered,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 4: to have been committed suicide, and I don't know where
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 4: he gets the ten number from, but.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 4: Died in suspicious circumstances since the Kennedy assassination. Scores of
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: persons similarly knowledgeable have been beaten, shot, threatened, intimidated, or
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 4: run out of town, and at least a dozen others
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 4: brushed by the event have voluntarily left Dallas, quite sensibly
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: it would seem. Let's look at an FBI document, and
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 4: this is.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: I think they're talking about Penn Jones here Jones volunteered
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: the following information concerning the Jack Ruby case this might
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 4: actually be in response to the article you talked about
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 4: Rob you showed earlier he is planning to print a
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 4: story in his June 2nd issue of the Midlothian Mirror
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 4: concerning George Senator, Rumi's former roommate, lying to the Warren Commission.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: In the Warren report, Senator stated on the date of
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: Oswald's murder in Dallas after being interrogated by the DPD,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 4: he was released. He then went to the TV bar
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: where he stayed a while and later went home with
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: attorney Jim Martin. According to Jones, Senator failed to tell
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 4: him about a conference the same night in his apartment
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: between himself, Tom Howard, reporter Bill Hunter of Long Beach, California, newspaper,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: and Jim Cody, reporter for the Dallas Times-Herald, and attorney C.A. Droby,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: although Droby wasn't there, allegedly. Jones declined to furnish a
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 4: source on this information, which is a problem, Penn said.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 4: but stated Attorney Droby and George Senator set up the
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 4: conference for the purpose of taking pictures and getting the
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 4: story at Ruby's apartment. Jones pointed out Tom Harrod has
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: since deceased with a heart attack. Bill Hunter has also deceased,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: as well as Jim Cody, who allegedly had been killed
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: in Dallas by Larry Earl Reno with a judo chop. Well,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 4: this isn't an FBI document, or at least an FBI document.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 4: referencing the article.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: They always leave out the best part.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: That he was a midget.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 4: Um, and let me just see if I have anything
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 4: else here, because I think this is my last thing
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: on him. Um, so yeah, he died in March of 1965,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 4: which would of course been like, what, six months-ish after
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: the Warren Report. And when I, oh, Rob, I've said
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: this before, when I always look at suspicious deaths, I
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: look at the timing. Like, why? Why do it now? Now,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: Ruby's trial was in 64, the first one, right?
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 4: The second one was supposed to be in, what, 67?
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but he had been trying ever since, the first one.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: So it could have... Oh, wait, no, no. The second
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: trial could have come about, you know, any time after
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: the first one. On appeal or, you know, a plea
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: or if a judge found that, you know, there was
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 3: reason for a retrial, it could have happened any time.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: It just didn't happen until 67. And didn't actually happen
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: because Ruby died before it could happen.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: That's not suspicious at all.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 4: Well, I actually have Kothi dying at 964. I was
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 4: confusing him with Tom Howard. I'm sorry. So he was
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 4: killed in September 1964.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the same month as Teresa Norton, who was allegedly
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: Little Lynn.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 4: Yes. I have a slide on that in a little bit.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 4: This is from that same article, The Body of the
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: Young Dallas reporter was found swathed in a blanket on
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 4: the floor of his bachelor apartment on September.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: 21, 1964. Well, at least the little man cared enough
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: to swaddle him in a blanket after he strangled him
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: and broke his neck.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 4: Robbery appeared to be the motive, although Cody's parents believed
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 4: he was killed for other reasons. Whoever ransacked his apartment,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 4: they point out, was careful to remove his notes for
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 4: a book he was preparing in collaboration with. with two
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 4: other journalists on the Kennedy assassination. Now, Rob, you know
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 4: my feelings about the allegations of, you know, for example,
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 4: Dorothy Kilgallen, who's also on this list, and notes disappearing
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: and things like that. I'm always very skeptical about that.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 6: Very.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 3: Of course. But, I mean, look, you know, is it odd, okay,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: that all these tangential people to this one event... meet
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: an early... earlier than normal demise....
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: But... you know, if you... can you apply the same thing...
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: to any random event?
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 3: You know... and get the same results. You know, like
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: for instance, Joe... take the Charlie Kirk shooting.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 3: How many.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: Alleged... witnesses have met untimely demises from that that we
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: know of none yet none yet no I was about
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: to say go back even further like say who was
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: in the kitchen at the ambassador hotel when Kennedy was
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: shot and did any of them meet untimely demises.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 4: I don't think so maybe one or two.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: And I know there's a lot of moving parts With
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: the Kennedy assassination. But it does seem to me a
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: higher than average amount did meet untimely demises. Now, could
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: it just be fate, luck, bad luck, luck of the draw?
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: But still sus.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 4: So within a week, like I talked about, the 22-year-old
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 4: ex-con from Alabama named Larry O. Reno was picked up
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: selling Cody's personal effects and held on to suspicion of murder.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: Reno's lawyers were Mike Barclay and the ubiquitous Jim Martin,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 4: both friends of Rumi's George Senator. You can't just spell Rumi.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 4: Martin and Senator, one recalls, were with Cody at the
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 4: ECMATIC meeting on November 24, 1963, when the Reno case
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 4: came before the grand jury. District Attorney Henry Wade secretly
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 4: instructed the jurors not to indict, an extraordinary move for
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 4: a chief prosecuting officer with as strong a case as
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 4: he had. The grand jury returned a no bill. Reno, however,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 4: remained in jail on a previous charge. When they finally
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 4: sprang him in 1965, January, he was arrested within a
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: month for robbery of a hotel. This time, the prosecution,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 4: led by one-time law partner of Jim Martins, had no
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: qualms about getting an indictment and a conviction. Reno was
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 4: sentenced to life for the hotel robbery.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 8: Wow.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 4: At the trial, his lawyers called no witnesses on his defense,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 4: which is kind of a problem.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 3: They should have marched in like 12 other little people
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: to take the stand.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 3: And again, folks, this is, again, we talked about this guy,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: Jim Martin, because, of course, he was on our list
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: of Jay Martin's that are associated with the case. And,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: you know, he figures in prominently to the specter and
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: the lore of, you know, everything. He fits the bill.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: But the craziest thing is that Jim Martin, which we
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: did not know until this week, represented Reno.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That is.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: That is nuts. I mean, maybe you can make the
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 4: argument like, okay, there's only so many lawyers in Dallas.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: And cut a deal with Wade to get him off.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: So what did Jim Martin have over Henry Wade? I mean,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: you got this guy dead to rights, Larry Reno, but
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: he gets off for murder.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 4: Right. Then goes.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 3: Obviously, Jim Martin made some kind of a deal with
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: Henry Wade.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 4: Jim Martin did not... suffer an untimely death, as far
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 4: as I know. Yeah, they only won. No, actually, Rob,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: we were wrong about that. Yeah, so the thing about
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 4: you and me, which I love, is when we're wrong,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 4: we're wrong. Because George Senator died, I'm going to skip
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 4: to the last one here, in April 1992 at age 78.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know exactly the cause of death, but.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: Baby oil fixation he's.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: Buried in my Catskills estate.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: In an unmarked grave yes with just one bottle of
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: baby oil as a headstone.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 4: Yes but yeah I was under that impression too and
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 4: I'm going to do a little more digging and try
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 4: to find obit an obituary an obit but uh i
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 4: i looked briefly i didn't see it but if he
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 4: was by himself in upstate new york you could imagine
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 4: a situation where there wasn't one but i found the
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 4: find a grave thing but it didn't really give much.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 3: Oh come on jack does sheba have to sleep with
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: us again I'm tired of picking dog hair off my
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: tiny whities.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 4: But he did live in New York. He served in
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 4: the U.S. Army during World War II and also spent
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 4: time in, of course, New York, Milwaukee, and Chicago.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: Chicago!
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 4: Which, of course, is interesting when you're thinking about Ruby,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 4: and settled in Dallas in 1954. He moved in with
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 4: Jack Ruby in 1962, where he did not pay rent
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 4: in that way.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 3: In cash, there was three ways Jack Ruby told him
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: he could pay. Cash, grass, or ass.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 4: Or bras.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: You picked the one that he paid in, right?
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah. But in return, allegedly helped Ruby out at the
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 4: carousel club sometimes.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 3: Sure he did.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 4: He was also, of course, one of the five in
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: attendance in the meeting at Ruby's apartment.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: Somebody's got to stay here with the dogs, Jack. I'll
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: feed your dogs for you. I'll take care of Sheba.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like we talked about where Sheba... Was
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 4: it Eva Grant that took her? Or was it the
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 4: African-American dude Armstrong that watched them for a little bit?
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 4: Or was it Senator?
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it was Crayford.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 4: It was Crayford, but Crayford bounced the next day.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: Right, but that was allegedly the reason he left is
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 3: because Ruby told him to go buy dog food, and
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: he hadn't given him any money to buy dog food
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: or something. And Crayford's like, ah, screw this shit. I'm
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: tired of this. I'm leaving.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe that reason as the reason to hitchhike
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 4: your way up to the top, from the bottom of
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 4: the United States to the northernmost part.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: That's right, Trey. Nobody rides for free. Cash grabs your ass.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 4: Common of the night, Trey. So far. On the morning
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 4: of the 24th of November, George Senator told the Warren
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 4: Commission that Ruby received a call from Little Lynn at
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 4: around 10 a.m. and Ruby left shortly thereafter. Larry Crayford
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 4: testified to the Warren Commission that he, Ruby, and Senator
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 4: went to photograph signs of the impeached Earl Warren billboard
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 4: in Dallas, although this was neither mentioned by Ruby or
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 4: Senator in their testimonies.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 4: So, the whole idea that Ruby didn't care about politics,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 4: I think.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 3: Well, there was also an incident that happened before that
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: where allegedly Ruby spent hours In his car, talking with
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 3: Dallas police officer Harry Olsen and his stripper wife, Kathy Kay,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: which is interesting. I wonder what they talked about for
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 3: a couple hours.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and he was very stressed out, if I remember correctly, right? Ruby.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: Manic.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, because I think he knew what was being asked
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 4: of him to do.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: By then.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 4: Right on saturday night i mean that's just my speculation
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 4: but seems logical um tom howard.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 3: This one cheeseburger away from a heart attack tom howard.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 4: Well he died of one so yeah uh lawyer in
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 4: dallas angry eater who came to represent ruby he was
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: also one of the five in attendance at ruby's apartment
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 4: He was the one that came up with the defense
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 4: that Ruby couldn't bear the idea of Jackie being subjected
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 4: to testify at a trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. Official
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 4: defense was called murder without malice. His official defense strategy
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 4: was called murder without malice, which at the time in
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 4: Texas allegedly carried a sentence of two to five years. Which,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 4: if you're Ruby, that's a home run, right?
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, except they didn't quite offer him that plea.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 4: Right, but I guess he tried to make that defense.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, of course that was never going to happen,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 4: but maybe he got Jack to agree that it's possible, right?
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 4: You know how lawyers talk. They can be like, you know,
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 4: there's a possibility that, you know.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: And whether that's a 1% possibility, 10%.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 3: It's weird, too, if you go back and look at
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: Jack Ruby's mug shots over the years, prior to 63,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: and then after 63, and then to 64, you can
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: kind of see the progression of the deterioration of his health.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 3: Meaning he started to get gaunter, lose more weight, lose
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: more hair, and people speculated, well, is it possible... that
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 3: he may have known that he had cancer and he
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: was going to die.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 4: Back then.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know how they diagnosed cancer back in the
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 3: 60s or 50s, late 50s, early 60s. It's hard to say.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: But it's certainly a plausible idea, given the contrary, or
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: they injected him with the fast-acting cancer from Judith Baker
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 3: and David Ferry. while he's in prison, you know?
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Can you see Jack Ruby going for, like, cancer checkups?
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe. Look, he's probably one of them,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 3: what do you call them? The things you're sick all
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 3: the time?
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: Hypochondriacs?
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can definitely see him being a hypochondriac,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 3: going to the doctor for every little fucking thing.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 4: Right, being paranoid, right.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I need to pay. You got a pill for this?
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 3: I got a pill for this.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 3: I just don't know. Maybe there was a way to
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 3: diagnose cancer back then. I don't know.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Tom Howard did meet with Jack Ruby that afternoon
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 4: on the 24th at the DPD after he shot Lee.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 4: He was later replaced by Melvin Belli at the behest
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 4: of Ruby's sister, Eva Grant, and like we said, died
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 4: of a heart attack allegedly in March of 1965 at
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 4: the age of 48.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 8: So....
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 4: Not that old, but you can see probably not the
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 4: healthiest dude either.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: Younger than me. But I still look better than he did.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 4: Well, you're much healthier.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know about that.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 4: Trying to give you a compliment.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: I'll take it, I guess, reluctantly.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: Although Dallas, this is going back to the article. The
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 4: Tom Howard part. Heart attack. Although Dallas, like any other
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 4: American city, is slowly being taken over by the well-groomed,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 4: image-conscious wonders rolling off our college assembly lines. I don't
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 4: know what they're talking about there. The Bob Thorntons, the
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 4: Jack Rubys, the Tom Howards throw back to another age with...
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 4: I don't know what they're talking about. Everyone around Dallas
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 4: knew of Tom Howard, the familiar figure in the white
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 4: Stetson who always seemed to show up where the action was. Oh,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: good defense attorneys do that, I guess, for business. He
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 4: was a defense attorney in the old rough and tumble
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 4: Texas fashion, operating out of a storefront office devoid of
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 4: the usual law books across from police headquarters. During his career,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 4: he handled about 50 murder cases and was more than
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 4: once cited for contempt of court for fist fights and
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 4: shouting matches with the prosecution.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, this is bullshit, Your Honor! God damn it. I
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: ain't never in my life heard such horse shit.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 4: You imagine like going over to the prosecution table, right?
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 4: You know, they're kind of separated by the like middle
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 4: aisle and just like knocking out the prosecutor.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: What'd you say, boy? My client's innocent, I tell you.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 4: Howard was another friend of District Attorney Howard Henry Wade.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 4: Although they often opposed each other in court, of course.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 4: It was not uncommon for them to meet for a
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 4: sociable drink after court adjourned. I bet he didn't punch Wade.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 4: He was also close to Ruby and others on the
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 4: fringes of the Dallas underworld. Like Jack Ruby, Howard's life
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 4: revolved around the police station, and it was not surprising
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 4: when he and Ruby, toting his gun, showed up at
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 4: the station on the evening of the assassination.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 3: I think this boy Lee Oswald might just need himself
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 3: a lawyer. Go on down to the station here and
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 3: make myself available. Right.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it makes sense if you're a defense
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 4: attorney and you're going to get called, you know, when
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 4: someone in custody requests a lawyer to be across the street, right?
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 3: Well, dude, anybody in their right mind, any defense attorney
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 3: would have been... stumbling over themselves to represent Lee Harvey
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: Oswald in what would have been the biggest publicity case
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 3: in the history of America at that time. You know
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 3: what I mean?
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, unless you felt threatened or intimidated.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: Even bad publicity is good publicity.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 4: Right, but that's a different... Kind of a different time,
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 4: I feel.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: Because if he could have been represented at Oswald and
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 3: got him off, I mean, and you got that on
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 3: your resume, shit, you can charge whatever you want.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 4: He'd be like Johnny Cochran. Yeah.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 3: The fat, white Johnny Cochran.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 4: Nor was it unusual when Howard arrived there shortly after
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 4: Ruby shot Oswald two days later asking to see his
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 4: old friend.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 6: Um.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 4: Let's go on here. Howard was shown into a meeting
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 4: room to see a bewildered Ruby who had not asked
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 4: for any lawyer yet. And for the next few days
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 4: until Ruby's brother Earl soured on Howard and had him relieved.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 4: He was Jack's chief attorney and public spokesman. Howard took
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 4: to the publicity with alacrity. called a press conference, wheeled
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 4: and dealed. He told the newsman the case was a
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 4: once-in-a-lifetime chance and that speaking as a private citizen, he
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 4: thought Ruby deserved a congressional medal. Interesting. He told the
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 4: Houston Post that Ruby had been in the police station
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 4: Friday night with a gun. He dickered with the National
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 4: Magazine about an Oswald murder story. He got, interesting wording there,
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 4: he got hold of a picture showing the president's brains
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 4: flying and trying to sell it to life. Ruby's sister
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 4: even accused him of leaking information to the DA. All told,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 4: it was never quite clear whether Howard was working for
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 4: Ruby or against him. Howard met frequently with his client
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 4: in the days following the death of Oswalt. From this,
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 4: Oswalt and his ties from both police and hoodlum circles
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 4: in Dallas and his presence at the Ruby Senator apartment
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 4: meeting that fateful Sunday One would assume he was the
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 4: repository of a wealth of privileged information about the events
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 4: of November 1963. I'm sure that's true. And we know
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 4: he was an irrepressible talker, privy to the intrigues of
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 4: petty criminality, but hardly one to be trusted with any
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 4: secrets surrounding the Kennedy assassination.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 3: So if you look at this group of guys who
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: met at Ruby's apartment the night that he shot Oswald,
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 3: All right, who do we have here, Joe? We have
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 3: two lawyers, okay? We got Jim Martin and Tom Howard. Yes.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 3: We have a reporter.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 4: Two questionable lawyers.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah. We have a reporter, Jim Cothie, right? Yeah. We
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 3: have Jack Ruby's boyfriend.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 4: And we have the other reporter, Bill Haunter.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 3: Yes. So we have two reporters, two lawyers.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 3: And a boyfriend, man friend, roommate, whatever you want to
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 3: call him.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 3: So I would say likely they're meeting there at the
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: behest of probably George Senator.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so. I think I'd agree with that.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 3: Because I'm sure he's freaking out. Ruby done did something
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 3: crazy and they're trying to figure out what they can
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 3: do to help him. So he calls who he knows.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 3: Maybe he calls the lawyers. Maybe he calls the press
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 3: guys first that Ruby's buddies with.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I believe we're going to get to this a second.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 4: I believed the, the two reporters came after the two lawyers.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 4: I believe I have this in one of the next slides.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 3: Uh, Well, you have to try to control the narrative
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: very quickly, okay? And since this just happened, and everybody's
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 3: asking the question, of course, why? Why, Jack? Why did
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: you do this? Well, of course you want to control
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 3: that narrative. So you're going to have lawyers involved, and
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 3: you're going to have somebody who is likely the person
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: who knew Jack Ruby the best, that being George Senator,
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 3: or at least knowing him very intimately, if you know
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 3: Could have possibly had some, some kind of information about
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 3: why Jack did what he did. And they needed to
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 3: frame a narrative and get it out there very quickly,
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 3: such as the one that, well, he didn't want Jackie
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 3: Kennedy to have to come back to, you know, to
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 3: testify at a trial for Lee Harvey Oswald and put
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 3: her through all that stuff again. Ruby looked the best
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: in a light, you.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 4: Know, Yeah, especially when you consider their alleged relationships with Henry.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 3: Wade, right?
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 4: There's problems here.
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The meeting makes sense, of course. And once Earl
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 3: gets involved, they kind of lose control of the narrative.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 3: They have Jack Ruby's best interests at heart, which of
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: course they don't.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 4: Right, and I think Earl did, and it only took
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 4: him a couple days to kind of be like, these
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 4: skafoozes are not going forward here.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 8: Right?
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 4: I agree. So, listen to this. Howard was taken to
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 4: a hospital in March 1965 by an unidentified person and
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 4: died there at the hospital. He was 48. The doctor,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 4: without the benefit of an autopsy, of course, said he
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 4: suffered a heart attack. Some reporter friends of Howard's are
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 4: not so sure. They observed that for three days before
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 4: his death, the normally gregarious Howard seemed preoccupied and uncommunicative.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 4: Jesus Christ, I'm so bad. And did not appear to
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 4: recognize his friends. So he's obviously dealing with something. One
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 4: Dallas reporter says flatly that Howard was bumped off. Others
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 4: are more circumspect. As far as I'm concerned, the case
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 4: is closed, one of them says. You're not going to
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 4: catch me messing in that hornet's nest.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 4: So who was Bill Hunter? He was actually an award-winning
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 4: reporter for Long Beach, that would be California, International Press,
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 4: and was one of the five in attendance in the
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 4: meeting at Ruby's apartment.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 3: What's sad till I die?
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 4: And this is the most sussest of deaths. Oh, I
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 4: This should say Bill Hunter.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 4: It says Tom Howard. Hold on. Bill Hunter was shot
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 4: dead by Creighton Wiggins, a policeman in the press room
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 4: of a Long Beach, California, police department. Wiggins initially claimed
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 4: that the gun fired accidentally while playing a game of
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 4: quick draw. Let's see how quick we can draw. and
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 4: his fellow officer, Earl Greenleaf.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not suspect at all.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 4: This is the most sus to me. Let me see
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 4: if I have anything else on him. I believe I do.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 4: Hunter covered the Kennedy assassination more or less as a lark.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 4: He was a police officer for the Long Beach Paper
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 4: and a good one, with a knack for getting along
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 4: with cops. He drank with them, played cards with them
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 4: in the press room. He was a sharp and lucky player,
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 4: and they would often call him at home when a
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 4: story broke. Hunter was a big man, described by friends
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 4: as rough, jovial, very physical, with an attractive wife and
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 4: three children. There was no need for Long Beach Paper
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 4: to send a reporter to Dallas, but Hunter, who grew
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 4: up there in Dallas, managed to promote a free trip
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 4: for himself with the city desk. In Dallas, he ran
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 4: into Jim Cody, who he had worked in Wichita Falls,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 4: Texas before. Cody asked him to come along to the
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 4: meeting at Ruby's apartment. They arrived to find Senator and
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 4: Tom Howard having a drink. So let's just drink and
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 4: talk about what we're going to do.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 3: We're having something else.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, have a little weed, have a little broad.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 3: A little sex.
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 4: But, I mean, to be fair to them, I'd probably
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 4: need a drink after that day, too.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, you've got to relax a little bit.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 3: Everybody's a little uptight around here.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 4: Bill Hunter was killed just after midnight on the morning
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 4: of April 23, 1964, only a few hours after George
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 4: Senator testified before the Ward Commission Council that he could
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 4: not recall the meeting in Ruby's apartment.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 5: Huh.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 4: Now, again, this is an article, so I'm going to
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 4: do a little more digging on it, but if true,
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 4: that's a problem. Hunter was seated at his desk in
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 4: the press room of the Long Beach Public Safety Building
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 4: when Detective Creighton Wiggins and his partner burst into the room.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 4: A single bullet fired from Wiggins' gun struck Hunter in
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 4: the heart, killing him almost instantly. The mystery novel he
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 4: was reading, entitled Stop This Man, slipped blood splattered from
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 4: his fingers. I don't know if that's true. I don't
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 4: know what that novel is.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: Somebody stop this man.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 4: Wiggin's story, the cop that shot Bill Hunter, underwent several changes.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 3: Does he work in the building?
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 4: No. His final version was that he and his partner
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 4: had been playing cops and robbers with guns drawn when
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 4: his gun started to slip from his hand and went off.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 4: The two officers were convicted of involuntary manslaughter. But guess what, Rob?
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 4: Sentence was suspended. There were no There were so many
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 4: contradictions in Wiggins' testimony that Bill Shelton, Hunter's city editor
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 4: and old friend in Texas, is, quote, still not satisfied
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 4: with the official verdict. He declines to comment about any
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 4: possible connection between Hunter's death and the Kennedy assassination. Yeah,
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 4: because he probably didn't want to be next. But I
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 4: believe anything, he says. It is a curious footnote that
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 4: Shelton's brother Keith was among the majority of Dallas newspapermen
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 4: who found it expedient to leave their jobs after covering
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 4: the assassination. Keith was president of the Dallas Press Club
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 4: and gave up a promising career as a political columnist
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 4: for the Times-Herald to settle in a small North Texas town.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 4: One reporter who was asked to resign put it this way,
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 4: it looked like a studied effort to remove all the
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 4: knowledgeable newsmen who covered the assassination. So, that is Mr. Hunter.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 4: Now let's get to Mr. Wilfred James Martin, also known
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 4: as Jim Martin. And of course, it gets very confusing
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 4: because there's a James Wilfred Martin connected to the trademark. There's,
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 4: of course, James, also known as Jim H. Herbert Martin. So,
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 4: This gets very confusing, but this is an FBI document
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 4: from December 10th, 1963.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 9: Mr.
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 4: James Martin, commonly known as Jim, attorney, Davis Building, was
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 4: contacted and was immediately advised of the official identities of
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 4: special agents Mabee and Hughes. He was advised that he
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 4: did not have to make any statement, that any statement
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 4: he could make would be used in a court of law.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 4: He then furnished the following information. Martin had been acquainted
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 4: with Jack Ruby for the past six to seven months
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 4: and met Ruby through George Senator, right? Roommate of Ruby,
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 4: and was brought to the jail cell the day Ruby
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 4: was incarcerated on November 24th, 63. So I guess you
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 4: have Howard in there, although from what I read, I'm
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 4: not sure if he saw him. He might have like
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 4: talked on the phone with him or through an intercom
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 4: or something. I don't know. But Mr. Jim Martin did.
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 4: He was then advised that although he was one of
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 4: the counsels retained by Ruby, he would be willing to
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 4: cooperate with the FBI in any matter as long as
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 4: it did not violate the attorney-client relationship. Martin then volunteered
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 4: that he had known George Senator for a year or
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 4: two and that he has extensively interviewed Senator and is
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 4: convinced that Ruby did not confide anything to Senator prior
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 4: to the shooting of Oswald. He volunteered that he had
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 4: interviewed employee of Ruby's at the Carousel Club and was
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 4: told that Ruby, before closing the club the day of
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 4: President Kennedy's assassination, sat and brooded in the club and
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 4: was reportedly crying. Yeah. He stated he feels very deeply
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 4: about the killing of the president and stated he would
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 4: represent Ruby if he thought there was any connection He
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 4: would not represent Ruby if he thought there was any
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 4: connection between Ruby and Oswald. At this point, the interview
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 4: was terminated. This was done on December 9th. Published on
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 4: the 10th. So, that is interesting. And one thing... Let
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 4: me see. Oh, yeah. So, this is the timeline here, Rob. So,
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 4: on 4-64, you have Bill Hunter, who we just talked about,
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 4: being shot. Accidentally by a policeman. Do you see who
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 4: was killed on 864, Rob? Allegedly. Right. Yes. Fatally shot.
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 4: Although there is not much to corroborate that. Jim Cody,
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 4: that would be in September of 64. Blow to the Neck,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 4: that would be the karate chop by the midget. And
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 4: then in 65, Ruby's first lawyer had the heart attack
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 4: and died on March of 65. So, you know, out
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 4: of these three, Cody's is a big problem. Hunter's is
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 4: a big problem for me, too. Tom Howard, I think,
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 4: is probably more coincidence. If I had to rank them.
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 3: Where did you get this list from?
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 4: This is from our Dropbox.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, stay with me here, because look. So, I forgot
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 3: about another ruby stripper that made an untimely demise. That
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 3: would be Rose Cherami. Yeah. who's on this list. And also,
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 3: look at the very bottom on this list, Joe. 1966.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 3: Karen Little Lynn Carlin. Ruby employee who last talked with
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 3: Ruby before the Oswald shooting. Gunshot victim.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 4: 1966.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 3: Yep. Teresa Norton is 64. With an asterisk. So that
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 3: would be.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 3: Allegedly her dying twice, once as under the alias of
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 3: Teresa Norton, and then again in 66. And like I said, folks, remember,
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 3: Gary Shaw supposedly found little Lynn alive and well in 1992, allegedly.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 3: But he also thinks Bushka Lady was Beverly Oliver. So,
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's the reason we have Beverly Oliver, is
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 3: Gary Shaw.
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 4: You know what, I have an interesting idea because I
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 4: saw that Jess Connell recently released an episode with Gary Shaw.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 4: Maybe we can get her to ask him to provide
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 4: any receipts in relation to that, what did you say, 92? Yeah.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 4: 92 conversation with her, allegedly. That would be interesting. That
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 4: would be a good follow-up.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because everybody either thought she was dead under the
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 3: Teresa Norton alias or died in 66 under her real name.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 4: So, I don't know if I really buy it, but
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 4: I don't really know. So, I'd love to hear more
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 4: about it. So, I will definitely shoot her a text. So,
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 4: you can take this down there, Mr.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: Rob.
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 4: I'm just going to read one more thing before we go.
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 4: Let's see, what do I have here? And this is
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 4: an FBI report on 6-27-64 of Mr. Jim Martin, better
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 4: known as Jim Martin, interviewed on three occasions, indicated below,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 4: in order that he was a that as full a
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 4: resume as possible could be attained of his contacts with
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 4: George Senator and Jack Ruby on November 22nd. This is
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 4: the Warren Commission Exhibit 3024. He asked for the repeated
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 4: interviews so that he might have an opportunity to piece
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 4: together his remembrance of his own activities during the pertinent
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 4: dates in collaboration with his wife and daughters who were
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 4: involved in these. The following constitutes the information tendered by Mr.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 4: Martin as the best he could offer, considering he himself
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 4: was stunned by the assassination of President Kennedy. Up until
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 4: the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald on Sunday, Martin had
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 4: not seen or had any contact with Jack Ruby for
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 4: several days, at least, prior to the assassination of JFK.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 3: That is a lie.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 4: Could be.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 6: Allegedly.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 4: On November 24th, he took George Senator to the DPD,
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 4: as will be brought out later herein. This was sometime
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 4: during the early afternoon of November 24th, 1963, and while
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 4: at the police department, he talked briefly with Jack Ruby
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 4: over the jail telephone, but did not have personal contact
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 4: with him. He considers the exact detail of that conversation
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 4: as privileged, but does feel free to state it consisted
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 4: principally of his giving advice to Ruby as to his
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 4: rights and cautioning him not to make any statements or
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 4: talk to anyone about the affair without clearing through him.
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 4: Martin does not feel that any attorney-client relationship existed between
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 4: him and George Senator, whom he had known for perhaps
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 4: the past two or three years as a friend. And
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 4: that is 6-16. When did Hunter buy it?
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 6: 4-64.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 4: So this is 6-64.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 4: Um, and that is, like I said, in the Warren commission.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 4: So a lot of interesting things going on here with, uh,
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 4: Jack Ruby strippers and the lawyers and Senator and the reporters.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 4: It's a mess like everything else in this case, Rob.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 4: It's just a mess, but I'm pretty sure Martin lived, uh,
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 4: a long life. I mean, he's not on the list. Um,
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 4: I have to find more information on that. It's just
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 4: hard because there's so many Martins, and we don't have
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 4: it in our drop box.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, Toopsy, this is a different Martin than the
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 3: one that put up the Oswalt SS flags.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 4: Right, hence how hard it is to search. And there's
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 4: another Wilford Martin involved in the trademark in New Orleans.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 3: And that's John C.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 6: Martin.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 4: No, no, this is another one. We have another one
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 4: on our drop box.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 3: He was the security guard.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 4: No, I know that. John Seymour was. I'm talking about...
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 4: Here we go. It's been a while, guys. Hold on.
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 4: I have it right here.
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 3: Let me see. J. Morton. If y'all have not watched
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 3: our series on Jay Martins and the Kennedy assassination from
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 3: almost three years ago now, when we first came live
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 3: on YouTube, highly recommended. We go deep.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yeah, so I'm just going to show you this
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 4: because this is what we have in our folder. Sorry,
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 4: this is from my other laptop. I don't know if
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 4: you can see this.
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, the old dude that was....
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 4: He was like a big swing dick on the trademark.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 3: I think he took Clay Shaw's place after... Yeah, he was.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 4: With Simon, our James W. Martin left. He was the
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 4: bald guy, I think. No, he wasn't bald, but he
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 4: was balding. Director of Trade Development of the Port of
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 4: New Orleans.
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because they built a new trademark in New Orleans.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 4: And I think.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 3: 65 or 66, right when Clay Shaw stepped down.
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 4: So that's the problem. And I mean, even in this folder, Rob,
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 4: we have a document that probably should be in the
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 4: other Jim Martin, the attorney's folder, but it's in this one,
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 4: which just kind of shows you How confusing this is
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 4: because we're talking about really three Jim Martins here. Two
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 4: named Wilford.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 5: Oof.
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 3: And I got one more thing to show you folks
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 3: before we go. Alright. And it has to do with
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 3: some more Ruby strippers just to give you more idea
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 3: of what kind of women these actually were. Okay, that
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 3: danced and stripped in Ruby's clubs. This is a testimony
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 3: of Let's see. What was her name? Helen K.
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 4: Smith.
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 3: She says, I've been asked for any knowledge I may
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 3: have with Jack Rubenstein, alias Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 3: This statement is voluntarily made by me in the presence
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 3: of my attorney. I'm 24 years of age reside in Houston.
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 3: My occupation is exotic dancer and I usually work in
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 3: Houston or out of state when I'm trafficked. I met
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 3: Jack Ruby in Dallas yesterday. In about 1957 at Club Vegas,
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 3: which he then operated, I used to dance with Candy Bar, a.k.a.
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 3: Juanita Adele Phillips. Someone at the table pointed out Jack
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 3: Ruby to me. I later saw Ruby at the Club
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 3: Vegas two or three occasions over the period of the
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 3: next year. The next time I saw Ruby was during
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 3: the Christmas holidays of 61 at the Carousel. On this occasion,
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 3: I went to the Carousel with Tori Shane, also known
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 3: as Evelyn Webster, another dancer, and we entered the club.
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 3: He was standing around near the door, and I spoke
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 3: to him then. He later came to our table. He
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 3: asked me where I was working. I only talked to
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 3: him for a few minutes. I have not seen him
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 3: since then. I would also like to add that I
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 3: have not been in Dallas since July of 63. Never
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 3: heard of Oswald. I did see pictures of him in
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 3: the newspapers, but I've never, to my knowledge, saw the
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 3: man in person. I've been asked if I ever attended
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 3: a party at Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald were present.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 3: My answer to that question is no. I have never
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 3: attended a party at which they were present. During the
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 3: two-week period ending of November 30, 1963, I was employed
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 3: at the Tam O'Shanter and Old Spanish Trails from 2.30 p.m.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 3: until 6 p.m. I also worked at the Midnight Lounge
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 3: in Houston until midnight. During the first week ending November 23rd,
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: I arrived at the Midnight Club at about 7.30, the
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 3: latter week ending November 30th, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 3: When the President and Vice President arrived in Houston, I
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 3: did not attend dinner at the Coliseum on the evening
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 3: of November 21st. I've repeatedly been asked by an attorney,
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 3: or if I know an attorney, by the name of
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 3: Barbara Wells, who reportedly has a wooden leg. and resides
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 3: in Dallas. I do not know this lady, and to
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 3: the best of my knowledge, I've never heard of her before.
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 3: I did not have a discussion with anyone regarding old
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 3: Barbara Pegleg Wells on the afternoon of the evening of
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 3: November 22nd. During the afternoon or evening, no one mentioned
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 3: the names Jack Ruby or Barbara Pegleg Wells in my presence.
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 3: I would also like to add that my feelings towards
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 3: Kennedy were friendly, and if there was any way I
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 3: could help in clearing up any of the aspects, I
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 3: would gladly do so. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So,
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 3: she was accused of saying some things shortly after the assassination. Now,
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 3: this is Karen Lynn Bennett Carlin, little Lynn, of her
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 3: rap sheet. Okay.
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 4: Decent exposure.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And the date's cut off here, but we'll get
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 3: a better one here in a second. they're talking about
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 3: Bruce Carlin here for a little bit looking for some
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 3: information about him all I can find out about Bruce
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 3: Carlin is on the card Dallas said they have no
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 3: record on him they also say they have no knowledge
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 3: of Ralph Paul.
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 4: Oh Rob can I stop you and don't quote me
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 4: on this but I was reading earlier that one of
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 4: either Martin or Howard I believe it was Howard also
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 4: represented Ralph Paul Of course, Ruby's a business partner.
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 4: All right. They're all connected.
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 3: The Paul I had in mind and told you about
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 3: is probably not the right one, but I am sending
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 3: his mug and record. He is a pimp and runs
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 3: nightclubs and messes with strippers. He goes to New Orleans
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 3: and Dallas all the time. I don't believe he's the
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 3: right one, but you may run across him sometimes. Tammy
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 3: True is really Nancy Bolin. Her record and mug attached. Also,
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 3: Little Lynn. The arrest for carrying the pistol on Lynn's
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 3: record from Dallas is supposed to be the time she
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 3: was arrested at Ruby's hearing. As far as I can
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 3: find out, she hasn't used the name of Carlin at
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 3: all recently. She and Tammy both are supposed to be
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 3: working at the theater lounge in Dallas now. So now
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 3: they're looking for license numbers. But this is, again, Karen
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 3: Lynn Bennett's vital statistics. 53108, brown hair, blue eyes, little Lynn.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 3: This is a better shot of her rap sheet. So
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 3: you can see two days before Christmas, 63, Dallas, Texas.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 3: She's arrested for CCW, which is carrying a concealed weapon.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 3: And then again in September of 64, right around the
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 3: time of death of a couple of our suspects here
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 3: at the Ruby meeting. She's charged with indecent exposure. Rumor
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 3: has it she pulled out a boob and shook it
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 3: at an officer on the street. Allegedly. I'm making all
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 3: that up. So here we have Nancy Bolin, who is
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 3: actually Tammy True, who actually just recently passed away. She
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 3: lived a very long life. And she has some very
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 3: beautiful fingerprints from back in the day. I mean, you
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 3: can really, they did a good job getting these on
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 3: a you. But take a look at old Tammy True's
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 3: rap sheet for a minute, if you will. Let's go
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 3: look through this a little bit here. Five foot tall.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 3: She's five foot nothing. 129. She must have had some
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 3: junk in the trunk, son. Let me tell you. Her
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 3: eye color was azure, Joe. You know what azure is?
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 4: Is that a shade of blue?
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 3: I think it's purple. Jamie, can you look that up?
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 4: Yes, I'm looking it up.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 3: What color is azure? Inquiring minds want to know.
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 4: Azure is a bright color. Scion blue color located halfway
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 4: between blue.
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 5: Oh, no.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 4: Sorry. Jamie has failed. It's a bright, vivid shade of blue,
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 4: I guess.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 3: Okay. Okay.
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 4: My guess was right.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 3: Goddamn.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 4: Like very light blue. I'm seeing some pictures.
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 3: You learn something new every day.
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 4: Like if you were to put those fake blue contacts in. Yeah,
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 4: that's what we do here.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 3: Charged with investigation of drunkenness as a juvenile in 1954.
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 3: Investigated as a fugitive in 1955. Investigated vagrancy and prostitution
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 3: in 1957. Investigated for the vice office, which is again
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 3: prostitution in 59. And Tammy True, they have her listed
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 3: as 5'3, 127 here instead of 5 foot, so who knows.
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 3: Dyed blonde, blue eyes, Tammy True. A little more of
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 3: the same there. But here's some more charges from Tammy True.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 3: Going into the 60s, she was busted for consorting Joe. Vagrancy.
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 3: She was also busted for an involuntary mental hold for
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 3: Chief Fournier. I guess she got sent to the loony
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 3: bin at some point. Vagrancy and prostitution. Again, a couple
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 3: months later. Vagrancy and loitering. Loitering is a crime they
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 3: don't really charge you with much more. Like you're standing
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 3: in the wrong place for too long.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, damn. More vagrancy, more loitering. Even in 12-12
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 3: of 64, she's charged with vagrancy and loitering.
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 4: $ 40 fine.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 3: But then, it kind of drops off after that.
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 4: She has unconcealed weapons, Scott says. So you're tied with Trey.
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 4: I'm going to give you both co-comments of the night
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 4: yes apparently James says it's a sea blue with a
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 4: bit of green azure.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 3: Are they like mine at all yeah you might have
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 3: it bro I might have azure eyes you might I
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 3: don't know I know they're blue allegedly but anyway folks
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 3: that is the first half at least part one of
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 3: rubies strippers and midget assassins oh my we hope you
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 3: enjoyed it make sure uh if you enjoyed it and
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 3: you want to become a channel member so you can
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 3: check out our members only shows to do that as
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 3: well uh We'd love to see you over there. We
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 3: have a very great group of folks who are channel
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 3: members and support the show that thoroughly enjoy and can
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 3: vouch for the veracity of our members only shows. We
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 3: do them justice. We don't phone it in, folks. It's
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 3: all good. So while Joe is grabbing the damn dog
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 3: or whatever he's doing over there. You got her?
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 4: I'm trying.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 3: He's wrangling Ruby. We'll call Dino in.
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 4: Here.
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 3: Folks, thanks for hanging out with us. We hope you
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 3: enjoyed the show. Thank you for participating in the chat
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 3: and all the good comments as well. Make us LOL.
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 3: I always go back after the show and look because
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 3: I miss so much stuff while the show is going on.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 3: It's a total show within its own.
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 5: I love it.
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 3: There she is. Hey, Ruby. Ruby.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 5: Yay. Oh, I was muted. She is naked herself.
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 4: She's flashing the camera.
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 3: Unconcealed weapons.
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 4: Unconcealed weapons.
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: Do you have any?
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 4: There's eight nipples in your face.
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 6: All right, folks.
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 3: Be on the lookout for some ramblings from Rob, a
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 3: book review, and part two of the topic of this
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 3: very night's show. We'll see you soon. We love you.
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 3: Have a great weekend. For Joe Borelli, I'm Big Bad Bob.
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 8: Peace.
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 4: Thank you, everyone.
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 3: And chicken grease.