Latest / The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast / 433. The Secret To Becoming A Better Man, Husband And Father - With Austin Ellis LMFT

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433. The Secret To Becoming A Better Man, Husband And Father - With Austin Ellis LMFT · The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast

• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast, the Ultimate Intimacy Podcast with Nick.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have Amy today.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Amy abandoned me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going to see how this goes.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I recall doing a podcast without Amy.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: So of course I'll probably say some things I shouldn't, she's not here to be online.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: But we wanted to welcome back Austin Ellis on the podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: We've had Austin on a bunch of times a few months ago, but uh we're excited to have him back, talk about a very important subject today.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: So Austin, uh welcome back to the podcast.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna start having Austin on a lot more.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're actually working with Austin on a pretty big project that uh we're gonna be announcing here in a little bit that's gonna be extremely exciting.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you're gonna see a lot more Austin on the on the podcast, which we're really excited about.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So cool, me too.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited for what we're building.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna help a lot of people in some important ways.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Totally agree.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're so excited, and we'll we'll like I said, we'll be announcing something uh here in the in the near future.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: But uh Austin and I, you know, as we were chatting before the podcast, we thought uh it would be really good to kind of talk to the men today um and just in general how to become a better husband and father and just better overall, right?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, Austin, you were sharing some statistics with me earlier that were pretty pretty astounding.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to kind of share some of those that will kind of help lead and dive into this podcast episode, yeah, for sure.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so just a really brief kind of backstory of the statistics.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've been a couples therapist for almost 15 years now, and constantly trying to figure out how do we help people more effectively and and quicker.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it shouldn't take years and years to get better, right?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like connection and closeness, we should be able to help heal the old you know patterns and shift them.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and so those statistics that that we're seeing is um it's changed over the years, but right now 70% of divorces are initiated by women, and that uh it used to not be that way.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, women traditionally hold on and and still do, but hold on as long as they can.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a variety of reasons why you know the divorce rates are what they are, but what I think we want to focus on is how do we turn that tide?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: How does you know a man listening, even a wife that's almost at the doorstep of that, like how do we help turn the turn the it around?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, so frequently people are they're trying for long periods of time.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like marriage matters to people.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: They know that they love this person, right?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: They know that like they've committed, and so you know, we do see people that you know kind of throw marriage away and they as soon as it's hard, they they get out.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: That that is happening actually more and more too.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if we focus on how do we help people have right ultimate intimacy, how do we help them have an amazing marriage, then we don't have to talk about the reasons why it's happening.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, you know, as you and I were discussing that, you know, one of the things that I've seen in my practice and and in like research with some of the top researchers is obviously we can't put marriage struggles on any one person, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like two people bring stuff into the marriage, baggage, hurt, you know, all sorts of things.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, a lot of time therapy will okay, there's couples' issues, let's let's see what's wrong with him, let's see what's wrong with her.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can spend years um dissecting the past, and you can make sense of it, and you can have all these insights from childhood or you know, whatever.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm a I'm a trauma therapist, I'm an addiction therapist, I'm a sex therapist, like I've trained in all these things.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can do all that work, and it doesn't necessarily translate to a better marriage.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things you and I talked about, uh the way I describe it, this is this is like a path upwards to like happy marriage, right?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm working with a couple, I'm always looking at, okay, okay, that's happening that you want to not have happen anymore.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to have happen?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: If people are looking in the past, it's very hard for us to say, well, what are we building?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: What are we creating?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so we help them look at what are you creating?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I I'm gonna use it like a stair, you know, stair thing, and I say, okay, what's the next step, right?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's something from the past blocking the next step, let's handle that and then let's take the next step instead of focusing on all the past.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so um what's been cool to see is not every relationship is a struggle because of because of the man.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to be careful there, like a man's not always to blame, or it's not men suck, or anything like that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what we tend to see for both men and women is when a marriage is not working well, we aren't our best selves.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, right, we're more angry, we're more inclined to numb out in a variety of ways.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, men are very susceptible to you know sports, to video games, to scrolling, to pornography, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's very common for men to turn to those things for a variety of reasons, but when marriage isn't going well, it's like that temptation increases.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: That does not mean a woman's responsible, right?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not have more sex so he doesn't look up porn, or you know, you show up more so he doesn't, it's the man needs to lead in creating that connection.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and they typically withdraw emotionally.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: So on top of the other things, they withdraw from their wife emotionally, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, one of the things um I work with couples on quite a bit, um, and and this is you know, this episode's primarily to the men, and and this is really important.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: This was really helpful for me in my own relationship, was really saying I want a healthy relationship with this woman, with my wife, I'm gonna take responsibility to do everything I can to influence that in a positive direction.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's fascinating because there is like real concrete research that says no matter whose fault it is, when a man steps in, and I'll I'll give three key pieces in just a second.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you'll help me remember that three.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: When a man steps in, um a couple things happen naturally.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: One is a wife will naturally typically start to just meet his needs if she's like if she's shut out.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: She'll she'll want to connect.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a trade thing, it's like, oh, I'm attracted to you again.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: You you feel safe with me, okay?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that actually is number one.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll talk about what does that look like to provide safety.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's different for men than for women.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll I'll share this.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, hundreds and hundreds of clients over the years.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, every, like I'm talking 100%.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Every single woman I've ever met in couples therapy has talked about safety.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've never had a man say I need safety, like 100%.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's not uncommon for men to know this, but how do I create that?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's something we should probably should talk about.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so going back for a minute, if a man says, I want this to work well, I want it to be good for both of us, when he re-engages, she either naturally starts to come closer, or she goes, Hey, I want this closeness, but there's something in me that's blocking it.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And she'll naturally start to look at like what's going on for me.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it is something from her past, maybe it's something from childhood, but now she's more inclined to say, I feel safe enough and I want this enough, I'm gonna see what's in the way.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third thing is she typically becomes much more willing to work together.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's interesting about this is when it's done the flip side, where a woman says, I'm all in, like I'm gonna do everything I can, right?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I see this, I see this again and again, where a woman and a woman, a man will come into therapy, and a man will say, I'm not really sure why we're here.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, our marriage is great.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm initially when I first started seeing that, I was like, What the heck?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's happening here, right?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what was happening is she was meeting all his needs.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: She was being loving, she was being available, she was being intimate to the frequency he desired.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't naturally meeting her needs.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we we see this in the research where a woman can do all of that and it doesn't naturally shift a man like it does on the flip side, where when a man shows up, it naturally flips the woman.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe the core ingredient is that felt sense of safety.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then Gottman talks about this as the number two thing, right?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the first one is providing safety.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Number two is taking influence from the wife.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's this proactive, like, what matters to you?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you're asking me for things, and now I'm hearing it, and I'm gonna start doing those things.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: You do impact me to be a better man, to be a better husband.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Where if a man's mentality is like, I'm just gonna be me, take it or leave it, yeah, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Love me unconditionally, um, that doesn't create that safety and connection.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting about the the subconscious or excuse me, the uh unconditional love is realistically, that's not about your lovability, right?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: If a woman's loving you unconditionally and you're like being a slob and you're not showing up, like that's that's just she's really loving.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: That does not mean you're lovable.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what's cool about what I see with like the men's events um that I've done in the past is when a man comes and like we call it kind of like wakes up and he he starts to learn some things that he just wasn't aware of because we we don't get taught this stuff of you know, how do I relate to a woman?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's interesting is very rapidly, like you know, most of our events are like two and a half days, and I'll get messages from women like who's this guy?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where'd you find this guy?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like he's showing up in presence, he's you know, he's engaged in her well-being kind of proactively.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: She's asking for things, he's he's you know accessible, he's responsive, he's meeting those attachment needs for her.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: She will tend to draw closer.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so whenever I work with a man, I see and even in a couple context, it's not to blame the man, it's to say, hey, the best shot of you guys really creating something amazing is if you, the man, will step in and take that influence, you'll be proactive.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in fact, while you're talking about this, I'm thinking from the episode we had a few back with Dr.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Gary Chapman.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we asked him kind of how he came up with the love languages, and he says, you know, I just had so many couples coming into the office, and the husband's saying, doll, our marriage is perfect.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, the wife's like, you know, he's not showing me love in the right love language.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that's different than what we're talking about now, but I think women are more sensitive to understanding what a man needs a lot of the time, where we as men are sometimes clueless, right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: We think we think that we're showing love or doing things for our wife when in reality, um, you know, we're not.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things um like this is this is a a personal thing for me, but like it's a concept that I talk about with with men often.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: The idea is a man cannot repair relationally until he has returned internally.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is if I'm if I'm pulled away from you know my love for my wife, if I'm pulled away from my confidence, if I'm if I'm needy and like critical or you know, any of those negative things, like that's me not being connected to my identity and my my values.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so when a man comes, I'll call it come back to himself and he's like, hey, I know who I am, I'm confident, I don't need something from you to be a good man.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna just be a good man.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: When he shows up that way, now he can repair relationally.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and truly, that typically is the repair.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not commonly now we got seven years of therapy.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like very frequently when we help a man learn to stay in a certain place, I actually don't end up having to do that much couples therapy.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I know I know we've talked about it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously our audience doesn't know this, but Austin, when he does a retreat, it's mostly for men.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And what you you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you've kind of found out is that if you can help the men be better men, for the for the most part, that changes, like you said, that changes that relationship.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: We're not saying that you know there's any never any problems on the the wife side, but for the most part, um man can change in a good way, and and a lot of times we as men don't know, you know, we think that we're doing things good.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, oh man, I'm cooking meals, I'm helping with the kids, and I'm doing all these things.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I like I'm perfect.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And there's probably some other needs that are not being met within the relationship.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think uh we as men, um, you know, if we can step it up in a lot of ways and and and understand how to meet our wives' needs better, we're gonna see Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the things that's been really cool the last little while that I I've seen both like personally and and with clients is you know, a lot of men know what to do.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we can, you know, we can prescribe like do this, this, this, and this.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And your your wife can even give you that list, and it honestly probably won't translate to the changes you want.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I've been finding in my own relationship is it's more about like being, it's more about masculine presence.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of us men are like, what does that even mean, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's this state of being that she feels safe with, independent of what you're doing.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now you can take the like, hey, this is this is the helpful thing to meet her needs and to help her feel loved and cared for.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: But so much of when we talk about relational satisfaction, I I see it in like two kind of two phases.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of relationships need some relational healing.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that healing is highly you know impacted by what we're talking about earlier, where if a man steps in, um, he's the most likely to create healing.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: The building component, that's a shared thing.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a co-creation.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Ideally, a man can invite, like, let's create a new vision now that you're feeling safe with me.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to distinguish between relational healing.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: A woman has components in that, but she can do everything in the world in the name of healing, and they're not gonna get to this building creating place.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: A man can help get there, and then they they co-create, they bring the masculine and feminine, which I think I think we should talk about in in another episode.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, you know, for the men, for the men listening, um, I want to give maybe some tangible and simple, like tangible, simple, like here's some things to do.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly, exactly.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know we have a lot of men that reach out to us and they're like, you know, gall, I'm trying to do everything.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing this, I'm doing this, and like you talk about, you know, maybe their wife isn't feeling safe in the relationship.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, what can uh what can a husband do to you know help wife feel more safe in the relationship?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so a couple things, and this is really, really valuable.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I learned of the concept of safety 15 years ago, and strangely, I was very safe to men and women in therapy, and my wife and kids weren't feeling safe.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I I understand safety, what's happening here?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, clients don't trigger me, clients don't make me reactive, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I get that in my own relationship, and and so figuring out safety specific to my wife.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, every woman has different experiences, different perceptions, different things that that cause her to feel unsafe.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so, one one of the things is you have to be safe enough for her to be honest with you.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Some women aren't gonna tell you right away because they're afraid you're gonna use it against them, minimize it, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so getting yourself, and I'll talk about how to do this, but getting yourself to a place where you're coming without any excuses.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: It took me a long time to get to this place where I could even hear hard things, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could hear like how my behaviors had affected her, how it had devastated.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Remember one day my wife said, like, you've crushed my soul.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I did.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And to just sit there and you know, admit, like, you know, I betrayed you, I lied to you, I I you know the hardest thing would be to admit.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And what's the first thing we as men do when we hear that?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: We get defensive, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: We get defensive, start making excuses or pointing the finger.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we needed to be honest and and take it in and say, okay, what am I, you know, look inside.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if we did a podcast and an article uh a while ago, and it says if your marriage isn't what you want to be, it's probably time to look inside, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, what are we contributing or doing?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is really what we need to talk about.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's interesting there too, and I'll go back to to some personal things in a minute, if that's all right, but I um I think people get so hung up on being labeled and like I don't I don't want to believe this about myself.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a very mature relationally thing to accept I'm imperfect.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: So often people aren't intending to hurt their spouse, um, it doesn't mean it didn't hurt.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so one distinction that's really valuable for us men is to go, okay, I have my intention, but what was the actual impact?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, intention is fantastic, but your intentions didn't come to pass.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: What was the actual impact?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so you if you intended the impact to be connection and love and it didn't work, you don't necessarily have to feel shame about that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to be realistic.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: That didn't work, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh as I talk with women, and you know one of the cool things is uh, you know, meeting with hundreds and hundreds of women talking of like in depth needs, is there's uh just a handful of like I would call them core feminine needs.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: One is that safety, okay.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say to men, we need to learn how to respond, not react, right?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I might get triggered emotionally, but not reacting with anger, not Pulling away and shutting down kind of those fight or flight types of things.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we can talk about how to do that, but I need to learn to respond where I'm coming from let's call it presence again.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not being taken away by my emotions, my thoughts, my my fears, my insecurities, my sexual desire.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm staying consistent with who I want to show up as a husband, as a you know, as a lover, and she's telling me something, and I might get triggered, and I'm learning to like not stuff it down, not withdraw, but to internalize it and process it in the moment.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Initially, some men might need to say, hey, I need 10 minutes so I can respond you know the way I want to.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll come back.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: That comeback is really important.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if you can learn to do it in the moment, meaning you're talking and you're triggering and you're aware of it, you're like, oh, something just went off.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I either want to shut down or I want to speak a ton, you just slow it down, even say, like, hang on a sec.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I do this often with my wife.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I trigger much less, but I I often am like, something just happened for me.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of talking about what just happened for me, because that's not what we're doing, she's talking to me.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, okay, something just happened to me.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of has taken me out, it's making me want to talk about myself.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna just handle that for a second.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes with my wife, I'll I'll say, hang on, and I'll oftentimes I'll close my eyes, and it's like this return to what I'm doing.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here, I'm not triggered over there, I'm here with her, and I come back, I say, okay, you can keep going.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um that ability to respond and not react is the sure sign of safety to women.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how to get there we'll talk more about, okay.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a training process that we're not taught anymore.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the second thing is um felt felt security, and that's different for different women.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's around sexuality, sometimes it's around finances, sometimes it's you know, kind of the basic needs of life.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third one, um, let me kind of the best way to word this, um it is this kind of invitational leadership, is what I call it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not right, it's certainly not manipulative, it's not coercive, it's not forceful, it's not selfish.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's I want to invite you into something better, or I want to invite you to co-create something with me.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: But if men can invite this kind of, I want to lead us into something, even if it's what she wants, if I as a man say, my wife wants this, I'm gonna take the reins and I'm gonna lead us to this place, that's where women sink into femininity, and they're much more inclined to give you what I call the good stuff, meaning affection and kindness, and they admire you, and those types of things.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so those three things uh I would say have made the biggest change in my relationship and with the relationships that that I work with.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's developmental more than it is healing my childhood stuff.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's quicker.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if you hear Austin saying, you gotta you gotta understand first, but you gotta sit down and have that communication with your spouse.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: I know sometimes it's hard to do, but you know, we talk about it all the time, just sitting down and talking and having that open communication and and helping helping your wife trust you and feel safe.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so true.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So just maybe to kind of finish this principle off for the men listening, in my mind, and I've seen this with you, Nick, like one of the most masculine things you can do is is to take ownership.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of men understand that concept of ownership, actually taking it and saying, you know what, this woman is worth my investment of time and energy and change and growth, right?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, wanting her to feel happy, not just I want a happy marriage, because that's not specific to her.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So when you can tie your love specifically to the woman you're with instead of the outcome of marriage that you want, she's gonna feel that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: She's gonna feel that she matters, not what you can get from her.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I love that.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you hit what you hit on is very important because I think we as men, our pride gets in the way.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the second our pride gets in the way, I mean, we're putting up, we're then essentially putting up a block from you know, being able to make our wives feel safe and have that good communication.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know for me as a as a husband, it is it is hard to admit when I've made bad mistakes or done something wrong, which I do a lot of.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our pride gets in the way, and we usually want to blame it on someone else or point the finger, or well, it happened because of this.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: But like you said, just owning it and um accepting that you know you have made a mistake or done something wrong is gonna help your wife to to get you to trust you a lot more.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I remember early in my career this idea of like, is it possible for couples just not to disconnect?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we there's gotta be like this perfect ideal thing, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the reality is this couples are gonna they're gonna disconnect.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're even gonna feel pain.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: If both husband and wife can adopt an acceptance of repair in our relationship, we're we're gonna be, you know, disconnected in one way or another, and that just might be life.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like we just don't have time together.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to mean a fight, but we know how to repair when we need to, and we know how to come back together.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when couples both accept that that's part of the growth, one, they stop disconnecting in the same ways.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: They also repair quicker, and I'll call it cleaner, where it's it's not a big five-day conversation.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a wait, we're back together kind of thing.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're exactly right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I think a lot of times we assume, oh, great couples have a great marriage, don't fight or, you know, argue or disagree.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the case.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: You hit it right on the head.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's just how quickly they can repair that, right?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Or or move on from that, having the right tools to be able to um go from that area of conflict to back and connecting and being in a good place where you know, maybe those of us who haven't had the right tools or don't have the right tools, you know, fights are just perpetual and last a long time and we don't know how to, you know, reconnect afterwards.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I love everything we've always our conversations with you and and even private conversations as we're talking and doing things.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love how you know you bring everything back to having the right tools and knowing what what to do rather than just you know a bunch of information because we can have a lot of information and still not know necessarily how to apply that, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly right.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And my own journey, I mean, I've read tons of books and I've right seen like all sorts of these trainings, and they didn't translate to the change I wanted.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to figure out what works.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And there's skills and tools that take a little time to develop.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Once they're developed, now we have them to use regularly.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: So as we wrap this up, give give the give the guys out there, you know, two or three real quick things um that they they can do to just immediately start implementing this into the relationship.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the quickest thing actually, um I like for myself, I call it a 90-second um return.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually have a recording, we can make this available if we if you want.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have it where it's like literally a button, and I just like I know every time it's gonna bring me back to myself.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the best thing truly, if we're talking long-term repair and growth, um, when when we're aware that we, you know, we have a tendency to trigger in a certain way and we go work on it in calm, it doesn't really translate to the moment of.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so if someone can go, oh, I'm off, I'm gonna go handle it right now in the moment, that's where the brain starts to go, oh, it's getting it's getting worked on why it's activated.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now it doesn't need to be activated.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can come back quickly, right, and and shift emotionally, that's that's amazing.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's one thing.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I can I, you know, the the process of that for me.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have a guided thing even for myself, it's my own voice that it's like, hey, Austin, right?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like reminds me to get out of that mindset of the trigger, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if you're doing it on your own, it is just just like taking breaths.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is the simplest, uh, the simplest thing, and it's this is what I'm I'm after.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I want the simplest tools, right?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want the most effective.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so what if what the research shows, and and I won't go into the research, but what the research shows is if you're starting to feel anxiety, which that's what's happening with a trigger, if you do, I'll I'll do it, if you do so it's like you suck in as far as you can and then you bring in more.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: What it does is it oxygenate, it gives oxygen oxygen.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I made up a word, it it brings more oxygen to the brain really rapidly, and it's like a quick, like, hey, we're okay.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we trigger relationally, it's a danger cue.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm being criticized, I'm not getting my needs met.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: That ability to just breathe, it says, hold on, I'm in charge, we're not in danger.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can go back.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I often start my 90 seconds like this and I go out, so I do that just two or three times, and then I start to choose.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't listen to the voices of the reactivity, I don't listen to the emotion, I get back to choice, and I go, okay, what do I want to do here?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I want this to be a good conversation.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I ultimately would like to go on a date or connect or something.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: If I come back angry or critical or withdrawn, is that gonna lead to us connecting?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of husbands out there that maybe are scared or don't know how to approach their wife.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if giving the husband's advice out there, what what would be the easiest way to um help a husband be able to sit down and approach his wife and ask her if she's feeling safe?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe that just sounds simple.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sit down and ask your wife if she's feeling safe in the relationship.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if not, but is there, I mean, is it just that simple or is there anything you can help, you know, just the easy steps of if you're a husband and you want to, you know, find out if your wife's feeling safe in the relationship?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're exactly right.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, like if your wife's feeling safe, that changes everything, right?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so many things are encompassed in that.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if a husband wants to see if his wife is feeling safe in the relationship and have that conversation, what's the best way to approach that?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: And how to do that?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one of the best ways, um, truthfully, is not even in interaction with her at first.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's to notice is she is she coming towards me?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Am I chasing her?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: When I when I you know show interest in her, does she put up a wall?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Those are all indicators that she's not safe.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an indicator that she doesn't care, that she doesn't love you, like the things we make up.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: A woman pulling back is typically an indication that she's not feeling safe.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Other women, however, will come forward and it will feel critical.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if she's criticizing you, if she's nagging you, that's also an indicator she's not feeling safe.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Those things go away when a woman feels safe, like every time.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's something a man can do on his own.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: It is a great step to go to her, and the way I would recommend this is I would first come to her and without asking, I would say, I really want to be the husband that helps you feel safe.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Your safety matters.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: I recognize I may not be doing that effectively.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would love some input of some things I can do to help you feel safe so you can feel safe to tell me more, right?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and what I see, this is really valuable.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was really valuable for me and really valuable for the men.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, women, like we do this too as men, it's just different, but the the baseline subconscious need of humans is safety.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, both physical and relational.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh a woman is subconsciously seeking safety in the relationship, and and us men, we feel it like a test.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'm like, oh, that was kind of like a jab, sometimes a little turn of the knife.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because as I started to see it that way, I don't react and get hurt.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just now go, oh, she's making sure it's safe.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's testing me to see what I can handle.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And women don't do this consciously.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I worked with so many women and I see it happen in my office.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: She'll take a little jab, and when the man reacts negatively, he doesn't get the rest of the good stuff.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: When he sees it and he says, Oh, that's a cue that you're just making sure I'm in the right place to show you safety, and he stays steady.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: She then shares, I'll call it the gold.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: She will hand him what she needs for connection and intimacy.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I see it every time.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Having that wisdom to bypass the trigger and say, I'm feeling unsafe because of something she did, it's because she's feeling unsafe.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the man, I'm gonna provide that safety by showing her, hey, I can hear hard things, I can hear your needs, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna bail, I'm not gonna go shut down in the garage, I'm not gonna yell at you, right?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: If we can stay steady with that, um, then a wife will incrementally start not just opening up about what she needs for safety, but she'll share what helps her feel close to you.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: That leads to more connection, more you know, emotional intimacy, spiritual intimacy, and then sexual intimacy.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a it's a very powerful thing when a man lets her know consistently your safety matters to me.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and not like a one-time thing.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: If she feels that that matters, uh like she'll let you know.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just that simple.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: If she feels safe, your your relationship's gonna change in a in a huge and positive way.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for all the men out there listening, we like I said, we get a lot of messages and they all they're different, but they're all kind of the same.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, how do I how get you know, I feel like I'm doing everything right or I'm a good husband, how do I get my wife to connect and things like that?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, I think this is great advice, and you're you're probably exactly right.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're probably not feeling safe in the relationship for one reason or another.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, awesome podcast.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to share if real, I'll keep this real quick, but one more quick thought here for uh may maybe for men and women.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but along those lines that you were just speaking, there's so much value for for husband and wife both to just let each other know like you matter, and I want I want this to go well.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Most couples truly don't know how to make it go well, but that letting them know the intention can ease things that then they can start to you know figure it out, communicate, let each other know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with the with the safety component um for men, if and women, like men need safety too, but if men take the lead on this, like, hey, it's my responsibility to protect the relationship, to perfect protect the family, not you know, not just from like danger, dangerous intruders, but really I want to protect the family from conflict and chaos and anything.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: When when that when that takes place, things shift pretty rapidly, and and this is the part that I think is maybe the most valuable.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um how do I word this succinctly?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, all of all of my work, and I don't I don't want to pretend that we have some magic trick that just makes things right shift instantly, but I've seen couples in the most devastating situations you can imagine, and they can turn that tide where it goes from a pattern of you know, a cycle of like constant negativity, where we're connecting, disconnecting, right?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's just constant disconnection that can shift pretty rapidly to a progression of improvement connection, improvement connection without these big dips.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want people to understand that hope, like having a happy marriage, it doesn't need to be six months away.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it might be six months before you know how to do it consistently, but you can start that shift now and then build on it each day, and it just gets better and better.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad I'm glad that you brought that up because so many people feel like I think they feel like, oh my heck, to get my marriage to where I want it to be, it's gonna be like climbing Mount Everest.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: I just I don't even why even try?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's gonna be too much work, too hard.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm here to tell you if you've listened to our podcast, Amy and I were in a very, very dark place, uh talking about getting divorced to a couple months later having the marriage that I we both had always dreamed of.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's exactly what Austin's talking about.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was um having the right tools, knowing how to how to do things and starting that good communication and talking about, okay, what what do you need?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um, what what can I do to help you trust me, which was one of the big things as well, too, because I had done some things in our marriage financially that caused Amy to lose a lot of trust.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: That part did take time to build back, but once she once she could see that I truly wanted to uh have her be able to trust me and and started doing the those things as well, too, everything changed.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I want all of you out there listening that if you feel like your your marriage is in a dark place or maybe not even necessarily dark, but in a place where you do want to see you know real change, it like Austin said, it's not um it's not something that is a long, long drawn-out process.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You just start doing some of these things and and implementing the right tools, and you will see that change happen drastically and and quickly.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate that.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let me add this one 20 seconds because I just I know this based on experience.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's some some men and women that need to hear this.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, I used to be the director of a clinic that it was in Las Vegas, and we're the only clinic in Las Vegas that specialized in uh you know sexual addiction type things, um, pretty severe trauma in the relationship, and most of these people had pretty hard things in their in their past as well.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've seen people come back from the unimaginable uh of struggles, and I've seen a lot of that.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so whoever is struggling, like there is hope for your marriage, and again, like it doesn't have to be this long, drawn-out forever thing.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, connection and happiness are not super complex, we just need the right skills and tools.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: I see couples all the time with really extremely negative things that have happened and caused pain, and they start to reconnect, and you don't put it under the rug, you handle it the right way, and you start implementing new things that naturally draw that.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, forever whoever's listening that's struggling and feels hopeless, so many people feel hopeless, man or woman.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I will tell you, you can't you can't take away from me the knowledge that couples can come back together from from everything.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: They need the right things, and that's I think what you're aiming to do with ultimate intimacy.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's what Working on and just this last piece is um they just need to know how.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, and and that's the key.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you know, when we look at ultimate intimacy, like everybody wants that.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't, it's because they're hurting.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: The core foundational piece for that, especially for women, is what we're talking about today: safety, and then what you mentioned, trust.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: If men can establish that, things can be built up and that ultimate intimacy is available to everyone.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I genuinely believe that.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: So awesome.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what a great way to end.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, great podcast.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: For those of you out there listening, if you feel like you need a little more help, you need to talk to someone, uh, reach out to us at Amy at ultimateintimacy.com.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: We can put you in touch with Austin.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, unless too many of you reach out, then we'll say no, I'm just going.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: But uh no, on a serious note, if uh if you feel like you could use some help or or uh want to talk to Austin, reach out to us, just email us, we'll put you in contact with him.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Austin, uh great conversation.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: I always appreciate it.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: We'll look forward to many more to come.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to all of you out there, uh, thanks again for listening, and we hope you all find ultimate intimacy in your relationship.