Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BTK Killer Dennis Rader blames demon for his murder spree

Transcript

BTK Killer Dennis Rader blames demon for his murder spree · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I would get these feelings
0:15
Speaker 1: of being woozy. It was really unusual, and I was
0:21
Speaker 1: going to the doctor to find out what was wrong.
0:24
Speaker 1: They sent me to all kinds of specialist. It was
0:27
Speaker 1: after Dennis was arrested, and probably about two weeks later,
0:31
Speaker 1: it finally occurred to me in a I'm not having
0:35
Speaker 1: any symptoms anymore. And then it occurred to me that
0:40
Speaker 1: Dennis and I were the only two people at the
0:43
Speaker 1: city who had access to a locked file cabinet for
0:49
Speaker 1: tranquilizer for animals. And I truly believe that Dennis was
0:55
Speaker 1: petting very tiny drops into my diapopsy. I sleep believe,
1:02
Speaker 1: and I have no way of being able to prove
1:04
Speaker 1: those I was a guinea pick for his ability to
1:08
Speaker 1: use tranquilizer on other victims. You are hearing Mary Capps,
1:14
Speaker 1: who worked with a serial killer for seven years, only
1:19
Speaker 1: knowing him as a bad tempered boss, but she came
1:23
Speaker 1: to realize she was lucky to be alive. We are
1:27
Speaker 1: talking about b t K, bind, torture and kill serial
1:32
Speaker 1: killer Dennis Raider, who was spoken from behind jail house walls.
1:38
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
1:41
Speaker 1: being with us b t K buying torture and kill
1:47
Speaker 1: Dennis Raider. I knew something was up when I first
1:49
Speaker 1: found out he was a dog catcher? Okay, who wants
1:53
Speaker 1: to catch dogs to haul them off to be euthanized?
1:57
Speaker 1: I mean, is that some kind of a freaky cause.
2:01
Speaker 1: But other than that career choice, he seemed to be
2:08
Speaker 1: normal to John Limley, investigative reporter. Who is BTK Dennis Raider?
2:14
Speaker 1: And he the guy who terrorized which do ar Kansas?
2:18
Speaker 1: For seventeen years? We know of ten brutal torture and
2:25
Speaker 1: murder victims. Dennis Raider the oldest of four sons. Though
2:29
Speaker 1: born in Pittsburgh, Kansas, he grew up in Wichita. He
2:33
Speaker 1: went into the Air Force. He worked as an assembler
2:36
Speaker 1: for the Coleman Company, that outdoor supply company. He began
2:41
Speaker 1: to show signs that things were just not quite right
2:46
Speaker 1: as he was growing up. His parents recalled seeing him
2:52
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time alone. He was really obsessed
2:56
Speaker 1: with death and the as so off and is the
3:00
Speaker 1: case the death of small animals? Okay, right there, you're
3:04
Speaker 1: it's a red bill of alarm. Joining me. John Limley
3:08
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. You can find this
3:11
Speaker 1: in all other breaking crime injustice, music, crime online dot com.
3:15
Speaker 1: Doctor William Moroney, stained medical examiner, joining us, author of
3:20
Speaker 1: a brand new book on Amazon. American Narcan Veterans trial
3:25
Speaker 1: lawyer out of LA. Troy Slayton. He'll come up with
3:27
Speaker 1: the defense even for BTK. Doctor Bethany Marshall, psycho analysts,
3:32
Speaker 1: joining us from LA. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coal
3:35
Speaker 1: Case Investigative Research Institute, and Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor. When
3:42
Speaker 1: you say tortured small animals, Doctor Bethany Marshall, all sorts
3:47
Speaker 1: of alarms go off in my head. Explain absolutely, I
3:51
Speaker 1: mean you hear budding sociopaths. What we know about sociopathy
3:56
Speaker 1: is that there is a wish to relate to everybody
4:01
Speaker 1: on the basis of power rather than affection. Sociopathy is
4:06
Speaker 1: a disorder of detachment. So sociopaths do not attach to
4:11
Speaker 1: other people in a loving way. They only want to
4:14
Speaker 1: dominate on them. They have a parasitic relationship with them.
4:18
Speaker 1: They want to take things from them, They want to
4:21
Speaker 1: cheat on others, and so the behavioral pattern we see
4:26
Speaker 1: in children and youth who are going to become sociopaths,
4:31
Speaker 1: is that they begin to assert their dominance over animals,
4:34
Speaker 1: often to the point of cruelty, of killing and maiming animals.
4:37
Speaker 1: And so this is really the canary in the coal mine. Basically, clinically,
4:42
Speaker 1: when you want to look back and see if somebody
4:45
Speaker 1: a sociopath, you look at their relationships with animals in
4:48
Speaker 1: their youth and childhood. Okay, those were a lot of words,
4:53
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall. I'm trying to process. Cheryl McCollum, break
4:57
Speaker 1: it down in regular people talk. It's straight out of
4:59
Speaker 1: the series Killer Handbook. Do you want to be a
5:01
Speaker 1: serial killer? You're gonna start some fires, You're gonna wet
5:05
Speaker 1: the bed past what we consider a normal age, and
5:07
Speaker 1: you're gonna torture small animals. We were talking about BTK, bind,
5:12
Speaker 1: torture and kill. Take a listen to doctor Katherine Ramslin.
5:16
Speaker 1: But Raider's father worked long hours. He didn't see him
5:20
Speaker 1: a lot. He said. His mother like to read or
5:23
Speaker 1: watch TV, so she didn't pay a lot of attention
5:25
Speaker 1: to the kids, and she did let the grandparents take
5:29
Speaker 1: over some of the Childreary. I got along real well
5:33
Speaker 1: with Ben, but mom always listening, quite happy and lovely.
5:40
Speaker 1: But I get tennis little a little bit to correct,
5:43
Speaker 1: you get small. I'm doctor Katherine Ramsland. I'm a professor
5:49
Speaker 1: of forensic psychology. I've had extensive correspondence with Dennis Raider,
5:54
Speaker 1: the BTK serial killer, because I wrote a book with
5:57
Speaker 1: Dennis Raider called Confession and of a serial Killer. When
6:01
Speaker 1: he was young, his mother's ring got caught on a
6:06
Speaker 1: couch spring and she couldn't get her hand out. She
6:11
Speaker 1: apparently was terrified and told him to go get help,
6:18
Speaker 1: and he felt the first stirrings of arousal over. This
6:22
Speaker 1: was exciting to him to see a woman helpless, and
6:26
Speaker 1: it was the beginning of his ideas about women that
6:29
Speaker 1: what he wanted from them was to keep them trapped
6:33
Speaker 1: and helpless and looking to him in terror. That became
6:40
Speaker 1: imprinted in his mind and became the image he was
6:43
Speaker 1: always after. That is a discussion. You were hearing the
6:47
Speaker 1: voice of Katherine ramslind daughter Katherine Ramslin, who had dozens
6:52
Speaker 1: and dozens and dozens of conversations correspondence with BTK writer,
6:58
Speaker 1: insisting there is a quote dark side of him, the
7:01
Speaker 1: demons inside me. You know what, Cheryl McCollum, Wendy Patrick,
7:06
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Troy Slayton, William Roney. How many times do
7:09
Speaker 1: we have to see it? So often? When we see
7:13
Speaker 1: horrific evil acts like those of BTK, Dennis Raider, buying, torture, kill,
7:18
Speaker 1: they blame the devil. Oh, the devil made me do it.
7:22
Speaker 1: It's the demon in me, Cheryl McCollum. This guy is
7:26
Speaker 1: blame me. The quote demon inside of him, the devil.
7:31
Speaker 1: You remember that old phrase, the devil made me do it.
7:33
Speaker 1: That's what the person chuckles about. Oh, yes, it's complete garbage.
7:39
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to admit that it's him, so obviously
7:43
Speaker 1: he's gonna say, hey, it was the devil. Because what
7:45
Speaker 1: I did was so horrific and so horrible that people
7:50
Speaker 1: hear about it. I've got to have an excuse ready,
7:53
Speaker 1: and the old excuse there is the devil. Take a
7:56
Speaker 1: listen to what Jeffrey Davis, son of one of the
8:00
Speaker 1: btk's victims, has to say. Sitting here before us is
8:04
Speaker 1: a depraved predator, a rabid animal that has murdered people,
8:08
Speaker 1: poisoned countless lives, and terrorize this community for thirty years,
8:12
Speaker 1: all the while relishing every minute of it. As such,
8:15
Speaker 1: there can be no justice harsh enough or revenge bitter
8:18
Speaker 1: enough in this world, at least to cause the pain
8:21
Speaker 1: and suffering which a social malignancy like this has coming. Therefore,
8:25
Speaker 1: I have determined it for the sake of our innocent
8:27
Speaker 1: victims and their loving families and friends with us here today.
8:30
Speaker 1: For me, this will be a day of celebration, not retribution.
8:34
Speaker 1: If my focus were hatred, I would stare you down
8:38
Speaker 1: and call you a demon from hell who defiles this
8:41
Speaker 1: chord at the very sight of its cancerous presence. If
8:44
Speaker 1: I embraced bitterness, I would remind you that you are
8:47
Speaker 1: nothing but a desperable, child, murdering, cowardly, impotent, eunuch and
8:51
Speaker 1: pervert masquerading as a human being. If I were the
8:55
Speaker 1: animal that you or, I would say that I relish
8:57
Speaker 1: the thought of you being treated to the same despicable brutality,
9:01
Speaker 1: terror and agony at the hands of your soon to
9:03
Speaker 1: be fellow inmates that you relished inflicting on your defenseless victims.
9:07
Speaker 1: If I were spiteful, I would remind you that it
9:09
Speaker 1: is only fitting that a twisted, narcissistic psychopath obsessed with
9:13
Speaker 1: public attention will soon have his world reduced to an isolated,
9:16
Speaker 1: solitary existence in a square with sale crime stories with
9:27
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace way With lived a normal life and he
9:32
Speaker 1: decides to reappear. His ego was everything to him, and
9:36
Speaker 1: he was the master manipulator. Dennis Raider went into taunt
9:39
Speaker 1: the media and the police. He was mocking them. He
9:43
Speaker 1: started writing the most chilling letters to us. He thanked
9:47
Speaker 1: the news team forgetting the word out. Many of us
9:49
Speaker 1: thought that he was contemplating another kill, and that could
9:53
Speaker 1: be someone in power station. I didn't know whether I
9:57
Speaker 1: was the next victim. You are hearing right there a
9:59
Speaker 1: local use your porters recalling strange events surrounding the BTK investigation.
10:06
Speaker 1: And I find it very very odd to Windy Patcheck,
10:10
Speaker 1: California prosecutor, that he the BTK killer, bind Torture killed Dennish.
10:15
Speaker 1: Raider wanted to quote get the word out. Most killers
10:18
Speaker 1: want to keep it a secret. Well, you know, we
10:20
Speaker 1: live in a day and age where unfortunately the notoriety
10:23
Speaker 1: associated with some of these despicable actions is arousing to
10:28
Speaker 1: some suspects and some defendants. We've seen that with shootings,
10:31
Speaker 1: We've seen that with other types of killings. This man
10:34
Speaker 1: apparently was at it for three decades, and so at
10:37
Speaker 1: some point it's almost like he wanted credit for his work.
10:40
Speaker 1: It's it's unthinkable, it's inhumane, but it's in this mindset,
10:44
Speaker 1: and that's part of why doctor Ramslin wrote this book
10:47
Speaker 1: with him. It's this mindset that we want to know
10:49
Speaker 1: in case we see red flags, which which I unbelievably
10:54
Speaker 1: nobody saw in this particular case. That's part of the
10:57
Speaker 1: reason he wanted the story out to share. Aunt McCollum,
11:00
Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research, has to tea what
11:02
Speaker 1: exactly happened. Let me let me go on one thing
11:05
Speaker 1: real quick. Will you have a killer like Son of
11:09
Speaker 1: Sam or Zodiac or BTK that gives themselves a nickname
11:16
Speaker 1: that's a window into that person's ego. Of course he
11:20
Speaker 1: wanted credit. There was no other person like this. When
11:24
Speaker 1: he first decided he was gonna kill. He didn't choose
11:28
Speaker 1: one victim. He chose a family that he was going
11:33
Speaker 1: to strangle with his bare hands, and then proceeded to
11:36
Speaker 1: tell us, you know what, I didn't know it was
11:39
Speaker 1: going to take that much street serious free That's what
11:44
Speaker 1: his issue was. Then he deceeded to get in better shape,
11:47
Speaker 1: but he could keep killing. He gave himself a nickname.
11:51
Speaker 1: He reached out to the media. He wanted the credit.
11:55
Speaker 1: That's how you become famous, you know. To Troye Layton
12:00
Speaker 1: or in defense, lawyer, how are you going to defend
12:02
Speaker 1: this raider known as BTK bind torture kill actually wants
12:07
Speaker 1: dressed up as one of his victims. I'm looking at
12:10
Speaker 1: the photo now. It's of him wearing that looks like
12:14
Speaker 1: to be kind of a dress, and he's tied himself
12:19
Speaker 1: all up, and he's wearing blonde, freaky wig and he
12:26
Speaker 1: looks like he's got on a dull mask with its
12:32
Speaker 1: solid white with blackened out eyes and red blobs on
12:37
Speaker 1: the cheeks for rouge. And interestingly, he has tied a
12:41
Speaker 1: blue binding across his own mouth. I'm looking at the
12:48
Speaker 1: picture right now, Troyce Layton defense. This is clearly not
12:54
Speaker 1: somebody who is in control of all of their mental faculties, Nancy.
12:59
Speaker 1: But aside from that, in a case like this, really
13:02
Speaker 1: because he held down a job as a dog catcher
13:04
Speaker 1: and was a leader in his local church. Uh a
13:09
Speaker 1: former church leader who hid his killings from his wife
13:12
Speaker 1: and two children. Um, what about Nancy. What do you
13:17
Speaker 1: mean he's insane. The Constitution of the United States of
13:21
Speaker 1: America protects everybody, and so I know you're in trouble.
13:28
Speaker 1: It's Wendy. They're in trouble when they start quoting the
13:30
Speaker 1: Constitution because there's nothing in the law that's going to
13:34
Speaker 1: protect this guy. Wendy. When they start the defense starts
13:37
Speaker 1: quoting the Constitution, I know they're in deep doodoo. That's true.
13:41
Speaker 1: You only start You only go there when you have
13:43
Speaker 1: nothing else. And you know, because it's indefensable, it is indefensable.
13:51
Speaker 1: He comes with the Constitution again, Come at me, man,
13:55
Speaker 1: So I'm ready. What the defense attorneys need to do
13:58
Speaker 1: here is try and save his life. And so what
14:03
Speaker 1: we are looking to do is to have to save
14:06
Speaker 1: his life where we're looking to take the death penalty
14:10
Speaker 1: off the table. And so the entire purpose of the
14:14
Speaker 1: defense is to not try and have him be found
14:19
Speaker 1: not guilty, but it's to try and spare him from
14:23
Speaker 1: the death penalty. You know, it's amazing how some people
14:28
Speaker 1: would interpret this as God getting up in the middle
14:30
Speaker 1: of it again, because he was actually tracked. He was
14:37
Speaker 1: ultimately brought down by a floppy disk that led police
14:41
Speaker 1: to trace it back to his church. Okay, so he
14:46
Speaker 1: by Sunday mornings is this church goer, worshiping family man.
14:54
Speaker 1: The whole time, he's out as a dog catcher, tracking,
14:58
Speaker 1: scoping out victims in various neighborhoods all over town. To
15:07
Speaker 1: John Limley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, tell me
15:11
Speaker 1: about his crimes, Nancy, the really interesting thing is to
15:16
Speaker 1: go back to the very first of those crimes and
15:20
Speaker 1: to for a moment take this from the point of
15:24
Speaker 1: view of the survivors and the victims. Charlie o'tara was
15:31
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old boy. He had had a great
15:34
Speaker 1: day on this January afternoon. He had aged. Okay, when
15:38
Speaker 1: you say something like that, John, I know something bad
15:40
Speaker 1: it's about to happen. When you say something he had
15:43
Speaker 1: a great day, or like it was a sunny afternoon.
15:46
Speaker 1: That's how you always do it, John Limley, and you
15:49
Speaker 1: stabbed me. Go ahead a sunny Okay, go ahead. So
15:52
Speaker 1: as Charlie o'tara is crossing the street to his family's
15:58
Speaker 1: white bungalow, he sees that the garage door is open
16:02
Speaker 1: and his mother's car is missing. Right there. He knows
16:06
Speaker 1: something is not right, because his mother is always there
16:10
Speaker 1: to greet him when he gets home from school. So
16:13
Speaker 1: he walks around back trying to figure out what's going on.
16:16
Speaker 1: The family dog then runs toward him across the snow.
16:21
Speaker 1: No one ever let this dog, a German Shepherd mix, Lucky,
16:25
Speaker 1: out of the house outside alone at least. Charlie walks
16:29
Speaker 1: into the kitchen notices a half made peanut butter sandwich
16:33
Speaker 1: sitting on the table besides an empty lunchbox. It seems
16:37
Speaker 1: that his fourteen year old brother and thirteen year old
16:40
Speaker 1: sister had returned home just minutes before him and Carmen
16:45
Speaker 1: the girl comes running and says, come quick, Mom and
16:48
Speaker 1: dad are playing a bad joke on us. It's anything
16:51
Speaker 1: but a joke. From the doorway of his parents' bedroom,
16:54
Speaker 1: Charlie sees his dad on the carpet by the bed.
16:58
Speaker 1: He has been strangled with a belt. He's a handsome guy,
17:03
Speaker 1: but his features were grotesquely swollen. His mother lay on
17:08
Speaker 1: the mattress of some clothesline, clinched and cinched around her neck.
17:14
Speaker 1: Both of them had been bound with thin cord at
17:17
Speaker 1: the wrists and ankles, and at this point they think
17:21
Speaker 1: that another brother and sister are still at school, but
17:26
Speaker 1: they'll find out differently. Unfortunately, when you say that, it
17:30
Speaker 1: just breaks my heart because it makes me think of
17:35
Speaker 1: my own children coming in to find such a horrible thing.
17:42
Speaker 1: I want you to hear from his own mouth. Dennis
17:48
Speaker 1: Raider describing very unemotionally the Otero family his first victims. Yeah,
17:58
Speaker 1: you really talk to me about to uh, you know,
18:01
Speaker 1: giving the car and whatever money. I guess they didn't
18:03
Speaker 1: have every much money. And yeah, there I realized that,
18:10
Speaker 1: you know, I was already I didn't have a mask
18:12
Speaker 1: on everything. They already could id me and made him
18:18
Speaker 1: made a decision to go ahead and shut him down,
18:22
Speaker 1: I guess. Or strangling. I had never strangled anyone before,
18:26
Speaker 1: so I really don't know how much pressure you had
18:28
Speaker 1: to put on a person or how long it would take.
18:30
Speaker 1: A strangled missus Old Tarrell and she went out or
18:34
Speaker 1: passed out. I thought she was dead. She passed out,
18:37
Speaker 1: and I strangled uh Josephine. She passed out or I
18:41
Speaker 1: thought she was dead, and then I went over and
18:45
Speaker 1: put uh and then put a bag on Junior's head.
19:02
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Yeah, you only talked to
19:08
Speaker 1: me about uh, you know, giving the car and whatever money.
19:11
Speaker 1: I guess they didn't have every much money. And there
19:16
Speaker 1: I realized that, you know, I was already I didn't
19:20
Speaker 1: have a mask on everything. They already could id me
19:23
Speaker 1: and made him made a decision to go ahead and
19:29
Speaker 1: shut him down. I guess or strangling. I had never
19:32
Speaker 1: strangled anyone before, so I really don't know how much
19:35
Speaker 1: pressure you had to put on a person or how
19:37
Speaker 1: long it would take A strangled missus l Tarrell and
19:40
Speaker 1: she went out her passed out. I thought she was dead.
19:43
Speaker 1: She passed out, and I strangled uh, Josephine. She passed
19:47
Speaker 1: out or I thought she was dead, and then I
19:51
Speaker 1: went over and put uh and then put a bag on.
19:55
Speaker 1: Junior said, you are hearing BTK bind torture kills serial
20:00
Speaker 1: killer Dennish, writer of The Dogcatcher, describing with very little emotion,
20:05
Speaker 1: how he quote put him down, how he killed the
20:09
Speaker 1: Otero family. But that's just the tip of the iceberg.
20:13
Speaker 1: Listened to what he says. Next, Josephine had walked back up.
20:17
Speaker 1: I took her to the basement and eventually hungk her.
20:22
Speaker 1: I had some sexual fantasies. That was after she was
20:26
Speaker 1: hung went through the house kind of cleaned it up
20:29
Speaker 1: to call the right handed early go from rover room
20:33
Speaker 1: picked everything up. I think I took mister Tero's watch there.
20:37
Speaker 1: I guess I took a radio. I'd forgot about that,
20:40
Speaker 1: but apparently I took a radio. Did you hear what
20:42
Speaker 1: he just said? He's talking about killing mister and missus Otero,
20:48
Speaker 1: but then he goes on on to talk about killing
20:52
Speaker 1: very dispassionately, Josephine Otero. Josephine. He hung Joseph. She was
21:01
Speaker 1: just eleven years old. He hung her in the basement.
21:08
Speaker 1: Josephine Otero to John Lemley, Crome online dot Com investigative reporter.
21:14
Speaker 1: I'm looking at photos right now as they haul out
21:18
Speaker 1: on a gurnee, a little body covered with a blanket,
21:22
Speaker 1: and just like the brother says, there's snow outside. It's just,
21:27
Speaker 1: you know, a suburban home. They're walking up the path.
21:30
Speaker 1: A body is being removed from the scene of btk's
21:34
Speaker 1: first known murders, Joseph, Julie, Josephine, and Joseph the second,
21:43
Speaker 1: all four of them found dead in their home. I'm
21:47
Speaker 1: looking at them, and I'm looking at the little boy.
21:50
Speaker 1: Joseph Otero. The second and little Josephine. How was Josephine found?
21:57
Speaker 1: John Lemley Joey had been acceated with a plastic bag
22:01
Speaker 1: in his bedroom. Josie's partially clad body was hanging from
22:06
Speaker 1: a pipe in the basement. Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining
22:10
Speaker 1: me from LA He said he had a sexual fantasy.
22:14
Speaker 1: He's lying. He lived out that sexual fantasy that little girl.
22:20
Speaker 1: He lived it out, that little girl hanging in the basement. Nancy.
22:25
Speaker 1: You know, we know that certain animals are born with
22:29
Speaker 1: a predatory instinct, like say, a lion on the savannah
22:32
Speaker 1: might eat a springbok and not think twice about it.
22:35
Speaker 1: It's lunch. It's bad for the springbalk, but line doesn't
22:38
Speaker 1: think much about it. That's what we call cold blooded.
22:41
Speaker 1: And this is very rare amongst humans. But some human
22:45
Speaker 1: beings are born with a very strong predatory instinct and killing.
22:51
Speaker 1: It's just like an animal that's trying to get its lunch.
22:54
Speaker 1: It's that inconsequential to them. And when I hear the
22:58
Speaker 1: BTK killer in court and then the interviews say, yeah,
23:01
Speaker 1: I had to apply a little more pressure. Oh you
23:03
Speaker 1: know what, he tore the bag that was over his head,
23:06
Speaker 1: so I put another bag over his head just to
23:09
Speaker 1: make sure he was dead. I hear something called alexophymia,
23:13
Speaker 1: and alexophymia is when a person uses the same words
23:17
Speaker 1: you and I might use, but the meanings are very thin,
23:21
Speaker 1: like put a bag over his head, hang her in
23:23
Speaker 1: the basement, apply more pressure. These will be horrifying things
23:27
Speaker 1: for us to say, but they have absolutely no meaning
23:31
Speaker 1: to the BTK killer. And then you put that sexual
23:34
Speaker 1: overlay on it. That For a human being who cannot feel,
23:38
Speaker 1: there are no emotions about anything, this kind of associate
23:42
Speaker 1: path is going to have a very difficult time with
23:44
Speaker 1: sexual arousal because he's not going to be able to
23:47
Speaker 1: feel sexual arousal in normal ways with a same age
23:50
Speaker 1: sex partner. So what he's going to do is inflict
23:54
Speaker 1: cruelty on his victims in order to enhance his sexual arousal.
23:57
Speaker 1: And this is the distinction of the little literature between
24:00
Speaker 1: sociopaths and psychopaths. Sociopaths are just mean, heartless they commit crimes.
24:06
Speaker 1: With the psychopath you have the addition, the addition of
24:09
Speaker 1: cruelty and the commission of the crimes too. Doctor William Maroney,
24:12
Speaker 1: medical examiner joining us an author of a new book
24:15
Speaker 1: on Amazon, American Narcan doctor Maroney. He speaks Danish writer
24:20
Speaker 1: BTK speaks so dispassionately, so unemotionally in court it's like
24:26
Speaker 1: he's reading a medical document about how he murdered his victims,
24:30
Speaker 1: including hanging the nine year old little girl before having
24:33
Speaker 1: a sex fantasy on her. Doctor morony, What does the
24:37
Speaker 1: victim live through when they are strangled dead? Strangulation is
24:42
Speaker 1: part of a much larger cole morbid condition called asphyxia.
24:47
Speaker 1: Asphyxia is the lack of oxygen to the brain. Blood
24:52
Speaker 1: brings oxygen to the brain. Asphyxia is caused by obviously strangulation,
24:59
Speaker 1: carbonn oxide, drowning, drug overdose, any other kind of gas
25:03
Speaker 1: that replaces the environment, respiratory disease, sleep apnea. But here
25:07
Speaker 1: strangulation is the cause of asphyxia. So you slowly kind
25:12
Speaker 1: of wander off into the fog and then you never
25:15
Speaker 1: wake up. But in a strangulation there is the violent struggle.
25:20
Speaker 1: You are physically being assaulted to shot down the blood
25:25
Speaker 1: to your brain by the assailants. And while he's dispassionately
25:30
Speaker 1: talking about this in court, it's a very active, full
25:34
Speaker 1: contact negative experience. But suffocating people, asphyxiating people, they fall
25:42
Speaker 1: away unleft. It's strangling, it's violent, and it's a very
25:47
Speaker 1: full contact experience. Isn't true, doctor Moroni that when you
25:51
Speaker 1: recover a strangulation victim's body, sometimes their neck is like
25:58
Speaker 1: um three or four inches wide. Their whole neck has
26:03
Speaker 1: been contorted and constricted so much it stays that way. Well,
26:09
Speaker 1: there's a big part of the neck that compresses. The
26:12
Speaker 1: blood vessels are full of blood. Ordinarily they're pumping, and
26:16
Speaker 1: you shut them down. You close them, so all the
26:19
Speaker 1: blood that's in the head that has no oxygen is
26:22
Speaker 1: stuck there, and all the fresh blood below the belt
26:27
Speaker 1: or the rope or the grasp of the hands. So
26:30
Speaker 1: it is basically plumbing, and you're shutting off the oxygen
26:35
Speaker 1: that's carried by the blood. And if you strangle somebody
26:39
Speaker 1: hard enough, you squeeze them down to the bones of
26:43
Speaker 1: their throat and their spine. Listen to Beverly Plat. His
26:49
Speaker 1: sister Nancy was murdered by Dennish writer, I've lost a friend, confidant.
26:57
Speaker 1: My children will never have an aunt and I'll never
27:00
Speaker 1: have another sister. Nancy's death is like a deep wound
27:07
Speaker 1: that will never ever heal. As far as I'm concerned,
27:12
Speaker 1: Dennis Raider does not deserve to live. I want him
27:16
Speaker 1: to suffer as much as he made his victims suffer.
27:20
Speaker 1: But then when I think about that, and he is sick,
27:24
Speaker 1: perverted way, he'd probably find that as some kind of
27:27
Speaker 1: pleasure or reward. This man needs to be thrown in
27:31
Speaker 1: a deep, dark hole and left to rot. He should
27:35
Speaker 1: never ever see the light of day. And I have
27:38
Speaker 1: some afterlife scenarios for him. On the day he dies,
27:42
Speaker 1: Nancy and all of his victims will be waiting with
27:45
Speaker 1: God and watching him as he burns in hell. Crime
28:02
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, her execution by that monster was.
28:09
Speaker 1: You know, he's got to go on and live his
28:11
Speaker 1: life thirty one years now, with raising a family and
28:14
Speaker 1: children and career and everything. And you know, he snapped
28:19
Speaker 1: out ten people's lives. Right now, he's not any remorse,
28:22
Speaker 1: no remorse, no compassion. No, he had no mercy, and
28:27
Speaker 1: I think that's what he ought to received. I just
28:30
Speaker 1: I'll pray that he'll get the toughest sentence possible. I
28:34
Speaker 1: just it's like Charlie was saying, he's being judged here now,
28:40
Speaker 1: but eternity when he stands before the Lord for eternity,
28:44
Speaker 1: for his judgment. If he's still in his sins that
28:47
Speaker 1: he's committed here, he will spend it by himself in darkness.
28:52
Speaker 1: And you know that's that's what I love to tell him.
28:55
Speaker 1: You're hearing Kevin Bright, who survived the attack that killed
28:59
Speaker 1: his sister. Can you know what I wish what he
29:02
Speaker 1: said were true, that he would live out the rest
29:04
Speaker 1: of his days before his death in remorse. But I
29:08
Speaker 1: don't think he feels remorsefl about it. If you listen
29:10
Speaker 1: to him in court, I mean, take a listen to
29:12
Speaker 1: Dennis Raider, who dubbed himself buying torture kill as he
29:18
Speaker 1: describes how he selected his victims. I had many what
29:23
Speaker 1: I called him projects. There were different people in the
29:26
Speaker 1: town that I followed watch. Kathin Bright was one of
29:29
Speaker 1: the next targets. I guess, as might would indicate, just
29:32
Speaker 1: driving by one day and I saw her go in
29:34
Speaker 1: the house with somebody else, and I thought that's a possibility.
29:36
Speaker 1: There was many many places in the area College Hill
29:40
Speaker 1: even they're all over which Tall if anyway, that's it
29:42
Speaker 1: just was basically a selection process worked toward it. If
29:44
Speaker 1: it didn't work, I just move on to something else.
29:46
Speaker 1: But in the and then my kind of person was
29:50
Speaker 1: stocking and scrolling. You go through the trolling stage and
29:52
Speaker 1: then the stocking stage. She was in the stocking stage
29:54
Speaker 1: when this happened. That's a possibility. To doctor Bethany, Marshall's
30:00
Speaker 1: least out of la He saw the woman just walking
30:03
Speaker 1: in that he's talking about Katherine Bryant. You just heard
30:05
Speaker 1: her brother Kevin speaking and he looked at you, guys, Well,
30:08
Speaker 1: that's possibility. I mean, it's just like they have a
30:11
Speaker 1: total different mind. Then we have that. Yes, that is
30:17
Speaker 1: a possibility, Nancy. I used to have a cat who
30:19
Speaker 1: would bring me all kinds of little trophies and treasures.
30:21
Speaker 1: I've come home, there'd be a mouse on the front doorstep,
30:25
Speaker 1: or there'd be a lizard, and invariably the cat would
30:27
Speaker 1: want toss it around proudly. That cat looked so proud
30:31
Speaker 1: whenever it caught killed something and brought it to me.
30:34
Speaker 1: And I think about this Dennis Raider as an animal,
30:38
Speaker 1: one of these rare people whose predatory instinct is on overdrive.
30:42
Speaker 1: And he's sitting in the court like a cat passing
30:45
Speaker 1: a little mouse around saying oh, I did this, and
30:48
Speaker 1: then I did that, and he is happy about it.
30:50
Speaker 1: And you have the overlayer of the fact that he's
30:53
Speaker 1: a human. He's not a cat, he's not a tiger.
30:55
Speaker 1: This is a human being. And what do you get
30:57
Speaker 1: in a human being. You get something that we called grandiosity,
31:01
Speaker 1: which is a core feature of sociopathy. He's grandios. He's
31:05
Speaker 1: having a day in court now he thinks he's actually
31:08
Speaker 1: like the venerated professor who's teaching everybody what it means
31:14
Speaker 1: to be a serial killer. Well, Step one, ladies and gentlemen,
31:19
Speaker 1: you drive down the street. Step two, you identify your victim.
31:23
Speaker 1: Step three and maybe not this one. I think I'll
31:25
Speaker 1: go look for another one. Can you hear how he
31:27
Speaker 1: feels he's teaching the people in the court. This is
31:30
Speaker 1: like a very sick, twisted version of grandiosity, and we've
31:34
Speaker 1: seen this in every sociopath we've covered on your show. Wendy,
31:37
Speaker 1: patcheck with me. A veteran California prosecutor that has handled many,
31:41
Speaker 1: many homicide prosecutions. Wendy, how did BTK Dinnish writer actually
31:47
Speaker 1: implement execute his crimes? You know, the short answer is
31:50
Speaker 1: easily because he was somebody that wasn't a suspect. I mean,
31:54
Speaker 1: he had some status in his community. He had a job,
31:57
Speaker 1: he was a churchgoer, he had a family, Nancy, think
31:59
Speaker 1: about that. So when you have somebody like this that
32:02
Speaker 1: seems relatively unassuming and unsuspicious, it is easy for him
32:06
Speaker 1: to go out and find victims, as in his own words,
32:08
Speaker 1: troll them, then stock them, attack them, then kill them
32:11
Speaker 1: in a number of different ways as we've seen over
32:13
Speaker 1: the years. So he was apparently able to move about
32:16
Speaker 1: freely without drawing suspicion, and that makes him one of
32:20
Speaker 1: the scariest and one of the most dangerous serial killers.
32:23
Speaker 1: But I hate to say it, Nancy, it follows the
32:24
Speaker 1: pattern of other killers just like him that lead apparently
32:28
Speaker 1: normal lives on the outside. I don't really understand the
32:31
Speaker 1: phenomena of him writing letters to taunt the public through
32:35
Speaker 1: the local news media and Troy Slayton. His methodical way
32:39
Speaker 1: of picking his victims and executing these crimes, sneaking into
32:43
Speaker 1: their house under different pretenses like being a repairman or
32:46
Speaker 1: somebody to check the gas made or whatever. His pretext
32:50
Speaker 1: was showed a lot of forethought, and he has so
32:53
Speaker 1: many victims how do you even fashion a defense for that. Well,
32:58
Speaker 1: it's certainly not easy, and I think that the defense
33:02
Speaker 1: team here had certainly a tough job, and so it
33:07
Speaker 1: was focused, like I've like I've mentioned before, on purely
33:11
Speaker 1: trying to convince prosecutors that the pain of going through
33:19
Speaker 1: a protracted litigation would would just cause more damage to
33:23
Speaker 1: the victims, that it would be better for the victims
33:27
Speaker 1: to be able to give their impact statements to the court,
33:29
Speaker 1: which they did, and for the State of Kansas to
33:34
Speaker 1: not seek to execute And as that's as that's not
33:40
Speaker 1: going to bring any of the tragic victims back to life.
33:44
Speaker 1: Is that? Is that how you justify it, Troy, that
33:47
Speaker 1: a death penalty won't bring the victims back. I mean,
33:49
Speaker 1: I've only known so far of one person brought back
33:51
Speaker 1: from the dead. I mean, unless you can't Lazarus. But
33:55
Speaker 1: I'm not expecting a miracle. Of course, he's not gonna
34:00
Speaker 1: were not. You can't bring the victims back, That's the
34:02
Speaker 1: whole point, Chice Layton Nancy. Yes, the defense attorney's job
34:06
Speaker 1: here was to prevent another killing the defendant himself, okay,
34:13
Speaker 1: And and they succeeded. And instead he will spend his
34:18
Speaker 1: life in prison. You know what you speak of it
34:21
Speaker 1: like you're analyzing a problem in an algebra book. Listen
34:25
Speaker 1: to writer. Actually on that one, she was completely random.
34:30
Speaker 1: There was actually someone across from the Dylans was potential target.
34:34
Speaker 1: It was called Project Green. I think I had project numbers.
34:37
Speaker 1: That's a signed to it, and that PTICL day I
34:40
Speaker 1: drove the Dylons parked in the parking lot, watched this
34:43
Speaker 1: particular residence and then got out the car and walked
34:45
Speaker 1: over to it. It's probably the police support the address.
34:48
Speaker 1: I don't remember the dress. Now knock nobody. Nobody answered it.
34:52
Speaker 1: So I was all keyed up. So I guess started
34:54
Speaker 1: going through the neighborhood. I'veen into the neighborhood before. I
34:56
Speaker 1: kind of knew a little little the layout of the neighborhood.
35:00
Speaker 1: I've been to the back alley's people live. You know
35:03
Speaker 1: to you Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
35:08
Speaker 1: He kept writing the TV station Ka kak E and Wichita,
35:12
Speaker 1: claiming responsibility for all the murders and suggesting names for himself,
35:17
Speaker 1: including bt K, demanding media attention until they finally announced
35:23
Speaker 1: publicly that Wichita had a serial killer. He even made
35:26
Speaker 1: a poem which was stealing the lyrics to an old
35:29
Speaker 1: folk song, and he called it O Death to Nancy. Again,
35:32
Speaker 1: his ego played such a role in these cons It
35:36
Speaker 1: again reminds me of Son of Sam. You know, he
35:39
Speaker 1: wrote poetry Zodiac. He contacts. When the letters don't do it,
35:43
Speaker 1: he calls. And remember how sinister he tried to be.
35:46
Speaker 1: This is Zodiac, you know what I mean. They've given
35:48
Speaker 1: themselves nicknames. They're not just playing out these fantasies, Nancy.
35:52
Speaker 1: They're living. Now. Let me just say these names out loud.
35:57
Speaker 1: Joseph Otero thirty eight, Julie Otero thirty three, Joseph Atero Junior,
36:03
Speaker 1: age nine, Josephine Otero eleven, Katherine Bright twenty one, Shirley
36:09
Speaker 1: Van twenty four, Nancy Fox twenty five, Marine Hedge fifty three,
36:15
Speaker 1: Vicky Wiggieri twenty eight, Dolores Davis sixty two. That we
36:20
Speaker 1: know of, and I think somewhere out there in the
36:23
Speaker 1: universe all of them agree with me. Dennis Rador rot
36:27
Speaker 1: in Hell, Nancy Grace's crime stories, signing off, goodbye friend,