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Episode 5: 🌵 Arizona Unscripted - Remembering the Fallen — and the Work That Honors Them · Arizona Unscripted

• Arizona Unscripted: Yeah. Welcome to Arizona Unscripted, the show all about Arizona. The people, the places, the food and fun, and the stories that make our Grand Canyon State unlike anywhere else in the world. I'm Diane and I am the co-host of Arizona Unscripted. Bart is taking today off to be with family, and I am joined by our co-host Catherine. Welcome, Catherine. Hi, Diane. Thank you. So glad that you're here today. There's a moment every memorial day. Maybe it's standing at a graveside or watching a color guard or just driving past a flag at half-staff when it all gets quiet, when the noise of the long weekend falls away, and you feel the full weight of what this date actually means. Today on Arizona Unscripted, we're sitting in that moment with two veterans who have lived the reality behind the flags and the ceremonies. We'll talk about real remembrance, what we owe the people who gave everything, and what that debt demands of us right now. So let's begin today's podcast with a personal touch. Thank you both, Joan and John, for being here today. Joan, would you take a moment To introduce yourself and your guest, the branch where you're from in Arizona. And then we would love to hear from both of you. Have you tell us what Memorial Day actually means to you? Not the textbook answer, the real one. Joan? Well, I'm I'm Joan McDermott. I grew up on a dairy farm in Wisconsin. And ⁓ my my initial goal in life ⁓ when I was a teenager was to join the Peace Corps. ⁓ I happened to ⁓ have married a guy who decided he wanted to join the army and I joined the army with him. And I'd worked for several years as a as a surgical nurse and ⁓ and worked in ICU and I did my orientation to the army and then was to go to a stateside assignment and Last minute I got the word I was going directly to Vietnam in nineteen sixty eight. Wow. And ⁓ so I I spent that year there and then ⁓ what I was at Walter Reed for ⁓ another tour in DC and worked as a ⁓ scrub nurse for open heart surgery and then I went back to Vietnam for a year. Wow and ⁓ subsequently I was married to an army officer for 25 years. So I spent most of my life ⁓ in and around the military. And ⁓ my fellow comrade here is ⁓ John Swenson, and he has a much longer active duty career than I am, and I'll allow him to introduce himself. Hi, John. Welcome. Thanks for being here today. Glad to be here. I joined the service when I was fifteen and a half. Whoa. And I I joined the Navy and my sister says, You'll hate the Navy. I'll get you in the Air Force. She says, I know the recruiter. So she called you and did get me in. And I was in a year before they found out how old I was. But I did I went to Vietnam in 65 and 66, just as the war started. That's a forward air control. We'd go out and mark the target for the enemy and bring the fighters in to take them out when we could. So I then I left Vietnam and I went to Europe, England, and that. I flew to all over Spain, Italy, you name it. That and I loved it. The Viet Air. The service was the best thing I ever did in the life. I still would recommend everybody's a kid to go in the service for at least four years. Wow. And did you meet your wife? Yeah. I met her. That was another good reason. For 57 years. Wow. Kinda stuck, I guess, function. 57 years. We got started out with four kids and then Twelve great great grand ⁓ grandchildren and now we got seventeen or eighteen great grandchildren. Wow. What a life you have lived. We've had a good life. And I was an auto mechanic. That was my trade. I did that before I went in. I I've always played with cars. ⁓ We were talking about cars a few weeks ago. And our dream cars and road tripping. So that's amazing. We definitely have a love of cars here. Well, welcome to you and to your lovely wife. Both of you, thank you for your service. ⁓ so important to our country and deepest gratitude. We know today ⁓ a lot of civilians have grown up treating Memorial Day like the start of summer, a barbecue holiday. But Memorial Day is specifically for those who died in service, not for all veterans. Why does that distinction matter? And do you think that most people understand that distinction? Most people don't understand the Veterans Day period. And the difference between it and Vietnam, you know. Yeah. The difference between Memorial Day and Veterans Day. ⁓ This year is for the people have passed away which didn't come home. Yeah. And then Veterans Day is for the ones that were killed and still coming. For the rest of us. Yep. Yes. And it is such an important distinction for us to understand today is about those who we have lost ⁓ in service to their country and Part of the thing that we will really wanted to talk about is how we really want to be worthy of this moment, of those sacrifices, the things that they were fighting for, and that we are in a place where we can continue sharing those stories so we don't forget. And the word fallen is about real people. Right? Those were sons and daughters and parents and friends. And when we think about someone who didn't come home, what do you want the rest of us to understand about them as human beings, not as a symbol? They were heroes. ⁓ They gave their life for their to have freedom. And you know, I s I see when As I said, I went directly to Vietnam and very within a month the Tet Offensive started. And we were helping to unload bodies from choppers. ⁓ they were bringing them in, putting them in body bags, and and ⁓ these were eighteen, nineteen year old kids. And I could only think, ⁓ my God, these people have brothers and sisters and parents and families and they The life that they would have had is gone. And all of those people will forever miss them. ⁓ and there will always be a hole in all of their hearts for the people that for what could have been. So you were really thinking about it in real time. Thinking about that that that loss and how it went forward into the future in real time while you were actually doing it. Right. Yeah, you know, that reminds me, I grew up with a father who had served in the Korean War and ⁓ they had had a landmine that detonated around them and his body was filled with shrapnel. And I grew up with I mean, years and years and years and years afterwards, and he lived with the loss of ⁓ his troops around him. They didn't make it. In fact, he woke up He had been unconscious for a long time and piled in a heap with those who had died. And so that had such a huge impact when he came to it was dark outside. And he just knew everybody around him. He wasn't hearing a single person anymore. And so he shared that with us. And I I grew up seeing that shrapnel coming out of his body. And it was a reminder that this lives on forever. And we as generations younger than y'all were when you went there, we need to carry that forward. And these men and women died defending something important. And it's easy to say freedom and democracy. And that can feel like a bumper sticker or a meme that's out there. But in your experience, in real conversation that you have had with fellow service members, What do those words really mean to you, to your fellow service members that are here honoring those that we lost in the fight for democracy? What were you all fighting for concretely? Mainly freedom. That's that's what you we're fighting for. Still are today. Yeah. Well, I had a funny experience though. The first time I came back from Vietnam, ⁓ I I came right out of a war zone. You know, you fly home and within literally hours you're in a like it's a different world. And I met with my family and you know, they were talking about My my sister was talking about this pretty dress she bought. And my mom was complaining about something. And I'm thinking, ⁓ my God, these things are not important. And it just was driving me crazy until I realized that that's what it's all about. We want to have a country where people can live their lives and be happy and enjoy each other and the world they live in. And you can't do that unless you have ⁓ people who will stand up to keep that freedom and the democracy that we have. Yeah. I remember I I was a very serious child and I had said to my dad, I feel like it's wrong to be happy or full of joy when so many people lost so much and he said, What do you think they lost it for? So you could be happy and experience joy. And don't you ever forget that because they are not here to experience it and they wanted that for the people in their country. And I hear that in what you're saying. There's that shock of the different cultures, right? In coming back from that. We would love to hear you share some more of your stories. You all were really busy this morning. Yeah. Well, you know, I one thing I I was thinking about when I was actually reading the the script. ⁓ you know, one of the my first experiences in Vietnam, as I said, I got there and ⁓ well I won't I won't tell you what the the funny thing was. I won't tell you that 'cause it's a a little off color. But the We love you, Joan. I could tell you. I could tell you. You could tell us. Well, I will tell you. Okay. I w I woke up and I I was going to go over to the hospital, which which was an old French hotel. And ⁓ I'm walking across the street and there were all these guys lined up for the at the clinic door. And so I go to I I was surgical nurse, so I walked in and said hi to everybody and I said, What's that? ⁓ it was the V D clinic. Yeah. I've heard stories of that too growing up. So once a week there was a VD clinic. Well, all of that changed dramatically when the TED offensive started. ⁓ we were on 247 lockdown. ⁓ there I couldn't get to the hospital because there were snipers shooting at me. I I was the last nurse to wake up. It was Tet the Tet Offensive the second night, and suddenly at midnight all the firecrackers stopped. Yeah. I thought, ⁓ thank God, I can get some sleep. And then there was a knock on my door. And they said you have to get over to the hospital, but there were snipers. And so I kept trying to time it. And I finally got across the street. And then we couldn't go back. We just stayed over there for three days because we were getting casualties from the city, from the embassy, and ⁓ including Vietnamese and DC, Vietcong as well. And ⁓ we just stayed there and just worked. For three days before we could go, before they took the snipers out, et cetera. But at one point one of my ⁓ the the guys that I was the corpsman that I was working with said, you know, I said, Where because I we were seeing all of these ⁓ not just wounded, but dead soldiers that were bringing them in. I said, Where are we taking them? Because we couldn't take them out to the the ⁓ the morgue out at Townsend. And he said, ⁓ they're out in the alley. And I thought, what? They're in the alley. So I went back and I looked. There was a small alley and they were actually bodies kind of stacked up out there. And ⁓ so I looked at this one and they put you have the body bag and there'll be a dog tag on the front. And I saw the dog tag and I thought, could it be? It said Billy Barron's and I unzipped it and I looked. It was the kid I grew up with next door. ⁓ no. That was one of the first casualties that I saw. And he'd been he'd been killed ⁓ in the city in a in a in a an action that was taking close nearby, happening nearby. So that brought the war home very close to me at that point. It was serious. Yeah. Well, and I think this brings a really important point to mind. Because growing up with my father and hearing what you're saying, my dad really wanted to make sure we understood the distinction between Memorial Day and Veteran Day because he didn't die, even though they had passed him off for dead. But you live with it forever. Those that came home came home with what you saw and experienced there and it continues. Right? And I know for me being in a place where we are right now, it's really disheartening. Because I really thought we were in a better place. And so this year, Memorial Day, I promised I was gonna try not to cry. This is a really heavy day, and my gratitude to you all is so deep. And I appreciate that you were there for the ceremonies today. Right? That you were up early remembering. You want to tell us a little bit about that? Well, I got up to help them move stuff around, but I'm on the honor guard. So we did the 21 Gun Salute, the flag presentation, and I and that's ⁓ represent the respect the ones that we have lost. Yeah, and they deserve it. Indeed. Yeah. Yeah. And you went on for a long number of years of service afterward. ⁓ yeah. And it's ⁓ with beyond the war, right? Yeah. Yeah. How many years of service do you have, John? I've got twenty six years. Wow. Wow. That's a very full career. That is a very full career. And Joan, with you both in your service yourself and as your family. was in the service, how many combined years did you have? Did ⁓ how many years did I serve? You and your family combined. well, I was only on active duty for you know active for ⁓ three years and then I was in the inactive reserve for another year or so. But then I always tell everyone I was married to the Army for twenty five twenty five and ⁓ we served ⁓ And I say we because I worked for my husband. ⁓ we served overseas. We lived in ⁓ I was in the Philippines for the revolution and my husband was in the Pentagon. And he we I was the reporter out of Manila for him. ⁓ we lived in Australia, the Singapore and Malaysia for so I had 13 years in Southeast Asia all together. And ⁓ we worked in the diplomatic community. And my my children had the the great ⁓ luxury of going to international schools, which were absolutely wonderful. They best education and went to school with kids from all over the world, which has held them in good stead. Yeah. All these years. Yeah. And I know I grew up traveling the world. My father insisted on it. ⁓ I hated it as a kid. ⁓ but I'm so grateful for it because it really prepared us for a life of service to our community that staying in a community wouldn't have provided. And you both continue, as Catherine was saying, you continue today serving your communities in big ways. Well, I I think both of us have I mean, it it's just something that becomes part of you. It does. Yeah. It makes you feel good, certainly. It does. I remember being in the Netherlands and my dad making me go to a ⁓ diplomacy class. And ⁓ I came back and I was out on the playground in elementary school. And I remember the principal telling my mom, She was holding a diplomacy class out on the playground. But you know, those are important lessons that we could all use and reminders for this day how important that diplomacy is and finding common ground. Exactly finding ways to connect with people who may not on the surface seem to have much in common with us. You know, and I I think ⁓ when I I really wasn't all that involved with the veteran community community until I came to ⁓ Arizona and ⁓ so I'm quite familiar with all the services that we have out here as well. ⁓ you know, I we ⁓ we have a ⁓ a veteran clinic here that's new and is serving people really well. Our veteran community here with the ⁓ disabled American veterans, American Legion, Marine Corps League, ⁓ Veterans of Foreign Wars, what else? ⁓ what did I miss? Wow. We all work we all work together very, very well here at Havasu. And and my involvement it for twelve treatment court. And ⁓ we we've had better nineteen year olds to like we have a nine an eighty-nine year old right now. And each of them ⁓ has had different experiences and different issues physical and mental that have arisen and and it's so rewarding to be able to to be one of the people that understands where they're coming from. ⁓ you know, whether they fought in Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea. And there's there's there's something very special about being part of that community where we all help each other and and ⁓ make lives better for each other and our communities. Yeah. It takes us all to do it. Definitely. It does. And I think a lot about are we doing enough for our veteran community and how much the veteran community has done for us. And I'm just kind of wondering what is one thing that people listening today what they could do to make us worthy of this and continue on this service and this mission and the goals. that our veterans and those that we have lost had when they showed up. What is something real and tangible, something doable that we each could do now? Well, I wish they would do more for the homeless veterans. ⁓ yeah. I don't feel they're getting their fair shake of it all. Yeah. You know, I I think excuse me, I think that is such an important topic. And I know even this morning I had another person called me and said, you know what I would love? I would love if on your podcast you could talk about homelessness and how that ties into our veterans. And are we doing enough for them and what should we be doing? And I would love to do a segment on that. And I would love to have the two of you come back and join us to help us have a conversation about that. Would you be interested and willing to do that? Yes. Of course. It's one of the things that we're dealing with. I'm on a bipartisan veteran caucus board here in Arizona. And it is one of one of the ⁓ most ⁓ consistent issues that ⁓ the people across the state, veterans across the state of Arizona bring up. And ⁓ we we are working on it, believe me. ⁓ so we're ⁓ we work with ⁓ legislators on both sides of the aisle. ⁓ And there are a lot of veterans who are elected officials in this state. And ⁓ so it's our job to keep issues like homelessness for our veterans to the fore so that we ⁓ don't don't forget that this is an issue and don't overlook them. It's so easy to walk by someone who is homeless and just ignore them. And ⁓ that really ⁓ I think for us. That's an important thing that that that we recognize that and do something about ⁓ helping those people. Yes. And I think as a community we can and need to do better in that. And I feel like it shouldn't be just our veterans that are pushing this issue. I feel like as a community, every one of us could be joining this effort. to make this become a non issue as far as you all have the resources that are needed. You know, Joan, it will stay with me past this podcast about unzipping that bag and, you know, recognizing that name and opening that up and recognizing a neighbor. And those are the kind of memories that our veteran community now is living with. And I feel like in honor of those who lost their lives for this, that's a way we could honor them is by making sure we're taking care of the veterans that are here in our community and that we do something about that homelessness. So I look forward to continuing that conversation with the two of you. ⁓ what is something that we can carry as listeners on this podcast? When they walk away today and they go back and maybe they're doing the barbecue memorial day today, what is something that they can take with them that your help is that they take with them into the rest of their memorial day? And thought. Well, as John mentioned bef ⁓ as we mentioned earlier, I think too often, as particularly our younger people, because like less than one percent of the population now has ever served act on active duty. And ⁓ it it it's become just a you know, another holiday. And I would I would ⁓ think it would be important to keep alive the actual meaning of the day and why we have a holida we have a a day of remembrance. ⁓ enjoy that barbecue. You're alive, you're free. ⁓ and remember why that is ⁓ possible for you. Teach your children. Teach your children. And teach your children. John's wife. John's wife. That's her advice. Yes. And That is so important. Teach your children. My father made sure that we understood and I have carried that on and made sure my children and my grandchildren understand that and that it carries on because when the flags go back up to full staff on Tuesday morning, the people we remember today, they didn't just die for a country. They died for the idea of a country, one where people govern themselves. Where rights are protected and where every generation has to do the work of keeping the promise alive. That prior generations have died for this and we should be worthy of this moment. Thank you both so much for joining us. Daniel ⁓ from Graham County, and we've got Rebecca from Mojave and Catherine from ⁓ Lake Avaso here in Mojave. Thank you all for being here today. ⁓ we want to make sure that we're worthy. We appreciate your sacrifice, your services, keeping the memories alive. And to everyone listening today, have a meaningful Thank you all. Same to you. Thank you. Thank you.