Latest / The Retail Podcast / The future of e-commerce is connecting touchpoints, not channels.

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The future of e-commerce is connecting touchpoints, not channels. · The Retail Podcast

• 0:10
  Hello and welcome back to the Retail Podcast.
• 0:12
  Today I'm joined by Natalie of Hallworth, who is currently
• 0:16
  supporting a Retrieve, which is I are there.
• 0:18
  How, how long Natalie, how, how long has Retrieve actually been?
• 0:22
  Are there a start up? Are they established?
• 0:23
  Because I know that you said they're based in Rotterdam.
• 0:26
  Yes, it's a it's a really fresh start up brand.
• 0:28
  So like in basically it exists for a year, OK, let's say it
• 0:33
  like that. But the the idea and the and the
• 0:37
  so the brand idea was that already around for a couple of
• 0:39
  years, but. Yeah.
• 0:41
  They have the physics for you. And do they have a physical
• 0:44
  store or are they just purely online?
• 0:46
  No, no, it's purely B to C so far.
• 0:48
  So far. Yeah, no worries.
• 0:51
  So listen, it it, it, it feels like.
• 0:54
  And obviously I met you last year at Shop Talk when you were
• 0:58
  in your other role. So why don't we rewind and maybe
• 1:02
  you take us through your career where you started to what you're
• 1:07
  doing now? Yeah, no thanks, Alex.
• 1:09
  And it's also really great to be here and, and talking to you.
• 1:12
  I, I love, I love podcasts and it's always a pleasure to talk
• 1:16
  about my past and of course the present and especially the
• 1:20
  future, which I think you, you can imagine that I'm the most
• 1:23
  excited about. But yeah, zooming back a bit to
• 1:26
  to the past, first of all, I, I think it, it was one of the best
• 1:30
  shop talks last year. Where, where I've been, It was,
• 1:33
  it was such a fun event. So, so it was great.
• 1:36
  Great to meet you there. Yeah.
• 1:39
  So in that time I was still with the IGO.
• 1:41
  So my career basically started in the, in the consumer goods
• 1:46
  industry around 14 years ago, where I started with Unilever in
• 1:51
  the local market in Hungary, which originally I'm from.
• 1:54
  And then then basically over the years I, I've been in brand
• 1:59
  marketing, customer marketing, e-commerce.
• 2:03
  And I moved to the Netherlands to, to regional 1st and then
• 2:06
  global roles, of course, different categories within
• 2:09
  Unilever. So this is the reason why I'm
• 2:11
  busy Rotterdam for now almost 10 years.
• 2:14
  And it was yeah, like 3 years ago when I joined the, the
• 2:19
  actual after Unilever as a head of customer marketing and Omni
• 2:23
  child development of the luxury portfolio the actual on that
• 2:27
  time. So that was the reason I've been
• 2:30
  also at short talk with with my team and and we had a really,
• 2:33
  really great time. Also because Barcelona is not
• 2:35
  for super bars like the best parts in the world.
• 2:39
  For example, Paradiso is also based in Barcelona.
• 2:42
  Yeah. The Azure I'm sure you had to
• 2:44
  take your product. Oh, wow, yeah, yeah.
• 2:47
  I mean, it was really fun. Of course, I, I, I don't work
• 2:50
  anymore for the Azure, but it was a really, really fun
• 2:53
  experience, especially with luxury brands when you, you
• 2:56
  know, you have to go for trade visits.
• 2:58
  Like before I was working for categories like home care and
• 3:00
  beauty and ice. OK, ice cream was fun, right?
• 3:03
  But yeah, imagine still luxury drinks, alcohol beverages,
• 3:08
  right? That you have to visit, you have
• 3:10
  to visit bars, right? You have to go to Mykonos,
• 3:13
  Barcelona to visit bars. I mean, it's it's really fun, of
• 3:18
  course. But yeah, you know, I have also
• 3:21
  family and I have a daughter, so who, who turned 8 yesterday
• 3:24
  actually. So.
• 3:25
  Oh well, thank you so much. So, yeah, for, for that reason,
• 3:30
  it was also really hectic for me, of course, having a lot of
• 3:33
  travels, having a very demanding role, which, which one of the
• 3:39
  reasons that I that I decided, yeah, it was, it was, it was
• 3:44
  already in the making for a while.
• 3:45
  But I decided to put a bit of a pause on my corporate career,
• 3:49
  let's say it like that and focus, focus a little bit more
• 3:53
  on, on my family, some some personal and the words which I
• 3:58
  had already on my pocket list. So, so yeah, that's, that's how,
• 4:03
  that's how basically that's how I said.
• 4:05
  Then just one more thing on that, that when I won last year,
• 4:09
  this time around this time the 40 and the 40 hours from retail
• 4:12
  touch points and that, that, that was yeah, sort of, you
• 4:16
  know, that's where I saw that. You know what I I need to
• 4:19
  probably pose right now. I mean, it's a great ride to,
• 4:23
  to, to, to the industry. Yet now, now I want to give back
• 4:26
  a little bit also too. And your personal project is
• 4:29
  writing your book, right? Yes, correct.
• 4:32
  So that's that's one of the biggest projects I'm focusing on
• 4:35
  right now. And what's the book focused on?
• 4:38
  So yeah, it's funny, Alex, because it was not, well, I
• 4:43
  wouldn't say that it was not that long ago.
• 4:45
  I think it was probably 3 years already in the making in my
• 4:48
  head, sort of a framework, which I was, I think subconsciously
• 4:52
  using in different, in different roles across different brands.
• 4:58
  But it was sort of coming back to the same core.
• 5:00
  And every time I started in a new brand in a new role, I was
• 5:03
  thinking about that. Yeah, but this is sort of the
• 5:05
  core. And then when I hit the pause
• 5:07
  button in February, so that, you know, this is something that
• 5:11
  that I could actually phrase as, as a framework and that this is
• 5:16
  how the bridge framework was born.
• 5:19
  And, and then I started to think about it, OK, how can I actually
• 5:23
  make a, make a phone book, which is not just about, you know,
• 5:25
  case studies and, you know, all the experience and, you know,
• 5:28
  corporate things like that, but more like through my life as a
• 5:33
  woman, as, as, as an Eastern European, how, how I, how I got
• 5:38
  to, to where I am and relatively fast, let's say like that.
• 5:42
  So, and how using this framework sort of in the, in the
• 5:46
  subconscious was guiding me as sort of a guiding star.
• 5:50
  And yeah, for this reason, the book's name is fast.
• 5:55
  So, but he's focusing on this, this framework which which I've
• 5:58
  been using for many, many years. So I, I mentioned earlier,
• 6:01
  Natalia, that in the previous seasons, I've done this whole
• 6:06
  sort of focus on empowering female leaders, looking at how,
• 6:11
  you know, there, there is that sorts of allyship between female
• 6:15
  leaders. And I know that that's a very
• 6:17
  strong sort of part of what you're about.
• 6:19
  And the whole, as you were talking about taking your career
• 6:22
  gap, writing the book, passing on that wisdom.
• 6:26
  I'm just curious, are there any other ways that you you are sort
• 6:29
  of empowering the, the community or looking at how you empower
• 6:34
  female, younger, younger Natalians or or people who are
• 6:38
  your peers in the industry? Yeah.
• 6:41
  So one of the big things which are coming up, actually, I'm
• 6:46
  sort of fingers crossed. I don't want to talk too much
• 6:50
  about it in that sense because of course it's a really, really
• 6:53
  exciting one. I'm afraid to yeah, you know,
• 6:57
  sort of Jinxy that you know, where, where does it go?
• 6:59
  Because it's, it's a big, big thing for me personally because
• 7:02
  this is 100% voluntary, right? You know, I don't get paid for
• 7:05
  it. There is no, no, no, no, let's
• 7:09
  say no money involved. It's purely to give back to, to
• 7:11
  to women in, in our community in Rotterdam.
• 7:13
  And that's basically that I'm organising local Ted X event.
• 7:18
  So I will be 5 Ted talk speakers in, in this conference from
• 7:24
  different industries only for women, I mean, only of women
• 7:27
  speakers and really about empowering women.
• 7:30
  The theme of the, the TEDx event, which is actually on the
• 7:33
  5th of November in, in Rotterdam this year, which is the only
• 7:38
  TEDx event in Rotterdam happening actually this year.
• 7:41
  So it's a really exciting one. And the, the theme is a
• 7:45
  resilience and renewal. So this is where I feel as well
• 7:49
  that maybe with, with some, you know, just with, with a small
• 7:52
  thing that the just listening to, to, to some really inspiring
• 7:58
  speeches. I, I hope that we can have to
• 8:01
  empower women in our local community here in here in
• 8:06
  Rotterdam to to think about that how how they can be more
• 8:10
  resilient. In a word where, you know, from
• 8:13
  all over the places, you just hear the same thing, which is
• 8:17
  like, OK, no, nothing is certain.
• 8:19
  You know, just yeah, this is coming.
• 8:21
  Be afraid, fear, fear, fear, right.
• 8:23
  You know, in this kind of environment, especially for a
• 8:26
  woman, I think she's also biologically proven that that
• 8:30
  women are more prone to sort of being risk, risk averse and then
• 8:35
  afraid of just the afraid of change in that sense.
• 8:40
  How we can make sure that regardless of, of what's coming
• 8:43
  from, from Instagram, from TikTok, from from from all the,
• 8:48
  the, the algorithm powered social media networks, you, you,
• 8:53
  you just have to think that no, we, we are actually really
• 8:56
  resilient. Women are really resilient and,
• 8:59
  and we can renew and these two comes hand in hand.
• 9:02
  And this is where the speeches will be centred around.
• 9:05
  So FedEx cool. Have a woman 5th of November.
• 9:09
  That's sort of what I what, yeah.
• 9:12
  But I would love to give back to our community.
• 9:14
  What would be that? You know one piece of advice
• 9:17
  that if you could go back to a younger self, what would you,
• 9:20
  what would you tell your younger self?
• 9:22
  Yeah, I, I love this question. I think it's, it's actually
• 9:25
  brilliant. I, I, I use it many times when
• 9:28
  I'm doing mentoring with, with women to also think with that
• 9:32
  hat. That's for example, what, what
• 9:34
  would I do if or what would I say to the younger self and what
• 9:38
  comes to my mind. And this is, this is also, I'm
• 9:40
  showing a book that probably just slow down because the world
• 9:44
  is going to spin faster and faster, right?
• 9:46
  And it's also physics slows, right?
• 9:49
  Once the acceleration starts. It's just that we see it now
• 9:52
  with AI, we see it with a lot of different technologies.
• 9:55
  And we saw it in the past as well that once the acceleration
• 9:58
  starts, it will just go on. However, what we can do, because
• 10:03
  we cannot change the world, right?
• 10:06
  We can only control what we can control.
• 10:08
  And that's that's usually ourselves.
• 10:10
  And this is where in contrast of the title of fast and actually
• 10:16
  saying that, just try to slow down.
• 10:18
  Try to anchor yourself into what you think that you are good at
• 10:21
  and what you are also passionate about and try to try to really
• 10:25
  focus on that thing. Don't spread yourself too thin.
• 10:28
  Just try to train for yourself. The world will be keep spinning
• 10:31
  around you very, very fast and changes will be just coming more
• 10:35
  and more into your way, especially as you as you grow in
• 10:37
  your career, as you grow in your personal life.
• 10:39
  But one thing that that you have to sort of like, yeah, think
• 10:43
  about that, that how to, how to slow down.
• 10:46
  And I like to just to say one quote as well on this, which I
• 10:49
  really like from Einstein, that the only reason for time is so
• 10:52
  that everything doesn't happen at once.
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  And I think this is good. This is actually one of the code
• 10:57
  that I was also using for a book.
• 10:59
  Fantastic. So yeah, obviously, well we'll
• 11:02
  come on to what you're the current project as in like what
• 11:05
  what you're you're doing as Acmo right now.
• 11:08
  But I'm just curious in terms of because the the the listenership
• 11:12
  of the podcast sort of equally distributes between 25 to 3535
• 11:16
  to 45 and 45 to 55. So obviously being at the
• 11:21
  youngest end of that, what would be some sort of obviously your
• 11:27
  younger self would be to take it slow, but specifically in in the
• 11:31
  corporate world, what was what's the what's the secret to your
• 11:35
  success? What has helped you?
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  I think my well, if, if, if there is a secret.
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  First of all, I think just the side, I think I was also very
• 11:44
  lucky, you know, sometimes that because I basically I'm a person
• 11:47
  who exposes herself to a lucky situation, let's say like that.
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  I mean, I'm, you know, I'm open to be here, I'm open to to write
• 11:54
  a book, I'm open to do keynotes, etcetera.
• 11:56
  I'm open to organise events and yeah, also do this.
• 11:59
  So basically exposing yourself to a lot of different
• 12:01
  situations, I think also finds luck.
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  And that's one of the reason that, let's just put it as a
• 12:06
  side note that I think luck is, is, is a big thing there, right?
• 12:10
  So coming from Eastern Europe, making a global career, I think
• 12:13
  that's, that's you have to be also fortunate to do to do that.
• 12:18
  But I think what actually helped me also professionally, because
• 12:23
  that's something that I also realised actually around the
• 12:26
  time and my daughter was born 8 years ago, is that things are
• 12:31
  really connected, right? And I started to connect
• 12:33
  basically the those within different functions that I've
• 12:36
  been doing before and on that time, because I used to do brand
• 12:39
  marketing, customer marketing, digital.
• 12:41
  My husband is an IT engineer. So, you know, so in tech, I was
• 12:44
  sort of, you know, just just by the fact of living for, for 14
• 12:49
  years computer scientist, you know, you just start to, to get
• 12:54
  get into that anyway. So basically I, I, I think I, I
• 12:58
  started to see that, you know, how to connect these dots.
• 13:01
  And that's where I started to, to realise, for example, how,
• 13:05
  how early on, let's say the, the power of Omni channel and the
• 13:08
  power of, you know, how to, to connect different channels while
• 13:11
  still in many, in many leadership roles.
• 13:15
  People were talking about, OK, no, we are focusing now only on
• 13:19
  our B2B business. We are focusing only on our B2C
• 13:23
  business. And that's, that's, you know,
• 13:25
  just, that's just wrong. At certain level, you have to
• 13:28
  see that, you know, how you can really connect those dots.
• 13:31
  And I think that's where basically my yeah, I would say
• 13:35
  that my career also accelerated when I started to, to, to say it
• 13:39
  out loud that, hey, what about this and challenge a little bit
• 13:42
  the status code, you know, how we can do that.
• 13:45
  And yeah, I think that was that's really helpful.
• 13:47
  I got you. So moving on in into your
• 13:50
  current role as the CMO for Retrieve, tell us a little bit
• 13:54
  more about Retrieve. What are they about?
• 13:55
  What do they do? Yeah, so it's really funny
• 13:59
  actually when you, when you think about like, OK, what's the
• 14:03
  next career move and how am I going to to make my, you know,
• 14:07
  my next career move? So normally, you know, you think
• 14:10
  about like, yeah, who am I going to talk to from my network.
• 14:13
  For me, it was actually starting at the gym.
• 14:16
  So it was very funny because I, I, I was doing CrossFit now for,
• 14:21
  for over a year and in my local gym they were organising a
• 14:25
  fundraiser, which was basically, so I live near the canal.
• 14:29
  It's a ski canal and the, across the canal is my gym.
• 14:32
  So basically between my house and the gym, there is a, there
• 14:35
  is a canal and it's full of plastic.
• 14:37
  It's unfortunately, like in many, many canals in the
• 14:41
  Netherlands, you see that Yeah, it's just, it's just getting
• 14:44
  really polluted. And basically the fundraiser was
• 14:47
  sponsored by Retrieve and the 11 of the one of the reason is
• 14:52
  because Retrieve is a sports apparel brand made of 100%
• 14:57
  recycled bottles. So every T-shirt and garmy what
• 15:01
  they're making, it's made of 100% recycled bottles.
• 15:04
  And basically while the fundraiser, because they are
• 15:06
  collaborating with local companies, like for example, it
• 15:09
  was a company called Clear River collaborating with with retrieve
• 15:14
  and and my local gym to actually fish out the plastic from the
• 15:19
  canal. Right.
• 15:23
  Recycle it and then make T-shirts from it and then the.
• 15:27
  Raw material. So the raw materials actually
• 15:30
  comes from your, well in this case Rotterdam, but they are
• 15:34
  European raw materials. OK, interesting.
• 15:36
  Yeah, yeah. So it's so I found the concept
• 15:39
  really, really interesting. And of course, you know, these
• 15:41
  are this is really difficult to make right, you know, especially
• 15:44
  at scale. So of course the the brand is
• 15:46
  around now for around a year, but but it's really difficult to
• 15:50
  to scale, especially when when you are sort of facing all the
• 15:53
  geopolitical and the work economical challenges.
• 15:56
  Everything sort of goes against circularity.
• 15:59
  And this is where, where I'm like, seriously, no, we should
• 16:02
  do something about it. And, you know, if I put
• 16:04
  somewhere my knowledge into, into, really into really
• 16:08
  purposeful and meaningful work, I thought that, you know, this
• 16:10
  is something that I, I must do. It was sort of an inner, inner
• 16:14
  feeling that that I said that, hey, this, this is just great.
• 16:17
  I mean, I, I feel connected to the community.
• 16:19
  I feel connected to sports. I feel connected to, to, to
• 16:22
  brands and especially retail brands.
• 16:24
  So that's basically how how we started to have a a good chat
• 16:28
  with the founder and then, yeah, introducing the team and we
• 16:30
  started to like, you know, just see that how can we work
• 16:33
  together? And then in the end it came this
• 16:35
  opportunity that, hey, what if you would join us as the CEO?
• 16:39
  And I said, you know what, that sounds great and here we are.
• 16:44
  We're exciting and it's interesting because I remember
• 16:47
  part of the problem with some European companies that I've
• 16:50
  spoken to about recycling or using plastic is they've had to
• 16:54
  go offshore to recycling plants in other places.
• 17:00
  But then it's really difficult to make sure that you're
• 17:02
  actually getting true recycled material as opposed to someone
• 17:08
  labelling it as part recycled. But in in this case it's it's
• 17:13
  100% recycled material. Exactly 100% and this is this is
• 17:18
  where also the challenge is exactly what you're saying the
• 17:20
  where the challenge is coming from.
• 17:22
  And that that's where the the team was very focused so far to
• 17:26
  get that supply chain to to really have every single T-shirt
• 17:32
  coming from those sources where you know, there is a sustainable
• 17:36
  sources, which is like certified 100% recycled.
• 17:40
  You can actually trade back from where is where is the material
• 17:43
  coming from? And also the the other reason as
• 17:46
  well that you see that many of the recycle because of course
• 17:49
  there's a lot of green washing, right.
• 17:51
  And unfortunately that's that's really a set the news for the
• 17:54
  industry and the unfortunately, you know, when you have a big,
• 17:58
  big supply chain, like when you work for a big company which
• 18:00
  publishable about it's you know, it's not their fault as well
• 18:03
  that they cannot make it just like these the switches, you
• 18:06
  know, now we are making from from everything fully recycled
• 18:11
  garments. It's just impossible, right?
• 18:12
  You know, you would have to invest even just not just, but
• 18:17
  you know, everything it would, you would have to turn around
• 18:19
  the whole business. Whereas when you're a small
• 18:20
  company, a small brand, you can really start from first making
• 18:24
  sure that that supply chain is 100% transparent.
• 18:29
  And that's what that's what the demand brand was doing.
• 18:32
  And now when you have that, you see the demand, but you have to
• 18:35
  be sort of you have to bridge fast, but you also have to be
• 18:39
  slow on scaling not to get into that point that OK, now you
• 18:45
  know, we don't have enough fabric because that also can
• 18:47
  happen, right. Sometimes we are running out of
• 18:49
  T-shirts because there is simply just, the process is a bit
• 18:52
  slower than when you just harvest, yeah, you know, other
• 18:56
  material. That's interesting.
• 18:59
  And in terms of your the, the where the brand is positioned
• 19:03
  tell what's those, what's your ideal sort of shopper?
• 19:06
  What's the the profile of the ideal person that we buy and
• 19:09
  retrieve? Yeah.
• 19:11
  So I think the biggest, the biggest advantage of the TV is
• 19:14
  that it's focusing on ambassadors, right.
• 19:17
  So the slogan is lead the recovery.
• 19:21
  And that's that's where, that's where it comes the ambassador
• 19:25
  focus. And who are the ambassadors?
• 19:27
  It's really people, athletes who who who can be anyone basically
• 19:31
  who gets to a point that maybe they are injured, maybe they
• 19:35
  have, there are other sports injuries.
• 19:37
  So one of the reasons for example, they are collaborating
• 19:40
  with James like CrossFit, James personal trainers,
• 19:44
  physiotherapist, etc. And also, for example, there is
• 19:49
  there is a really, really beautiful collaboration with the
• 19:52
  Ryder Revel dance. Here is a local, actually a
• 19:55
  relatively local rehabilitation organisation.
• 19:59
  They are focusing on children rehabilitation, for example,
• 20:03
  from different either injuries or one.
• 20:08
  Causes that they just cannot be the same athlete but but they
• 20:13
  are really really eager on doing sports and I think this is where
• 20:16
  the beauty comes on that all retrieve ambassadors are
• 20:20
  focusing on actually their community where they lead the
• 20:24
  recovery. And this is I think what gives a
• 20:26
  differentiation for the brand compared to just OK everyone
• 20:31
  everyone is an athlete and everyone can can buy the
• 20:34
  T-shirts. No, it's it's really about those
• 20:37
  who actually make something for their the community because it
• 20:40
  equally focus or it equally focuses on the recovery of
• 20:43
  people and the recovery of the planet.
• 20:46
  Got you. Understood.
• 20:47
  And so do you feel that that's like the channels that you'll
• 20:51
  look at in terms of whether it's social commerce and you're going
• 20:54
  through, I don't know, Instagram and TikTok as the CMO and as a
• 20:59
  new CMO in role, What would you, what would be the sort of your
• 21:04
  preference in in channel, just out of curiosity?
• 21:07
  Yeah, So one of the and that's a great question Alex actually
• 21:11
  because that's that's usually the question I get at OK, so now
• 21:14
  what, what channel? So is it really going to stay B
• 21:17
  to B? Is it going to stay B to C?
• 21:18
  Is it No, it's going to be only channel and that's even further
• 21:23
  channel less, right. So what I want to put in
• 21:25
  practise, which I'm talking about now for a couple of years
• 21:28
  already doing keynotes about the same sort of topic around the
• 21:33
  power from the channel and the and the future of channel less
• 21:36
  marketing. I actually now putting it into
• 21:38
  practise. So the whole team is, and, and
• 21:40
  the whole brand is structured around interconnectedness, which
• 21:45
  means that of course the core, the core is going to be D2C,
• 21:48
  right? You know, we, we, we still want
• 21:49
  to, to have direct relationships, mostly because we
• 21:52
  want to build loyal connections with these ambassadors, right?
• 21:55
  Who then also connect with their own communities and become make
• 22:01
  make also their communities loyal to the brand.
• 22:04
  However, there are obviously it cannot be focused solely on one
• 22:09
  channel. And this is where the power of
• 22:11
  Omni channel comes in that through the consumer journey, we
• 22:15
  are basically connecting the different touchpoints, which are
• 22:18
  important for example, for retrieving this case to be
• 22:21
  really meaningfully connecting, for example, with some bigger
• 22:24
  businesses, which is clearly B to B channel work, right.
• 22:28
  Clearly there is the the direct to consumer with, with our own
• 22:31
  website and and the ambassadors, but there is also, of course, a
• 22:35
  business to consumer part when when we are talking to, for
• 22:39
  example, gyms and personal trainers, and then they are
• 22:42
  reaching out to their their own communities.
• 22:45
  So this is where, where the whole interconnectedness comes.
• 22:48
  And then social media, you know, it's, it's a bit of like how I
• 22:51
  how I say that, yeah, you know, you can't build your whole
• 22:53
  strategy around social media and TikTok, even though nowadays
• 22:56
  it's very popular. No, because that's sort of the
• 22:59
  earrings on top of your on top of your body, right?
• 23:02
  That's something that you will you have to plan and you have to
• 23:04
  have a clear content calendar and we are working on that.
• 23:08
  Our team is working on that. But there is, there is really
• 23:11
  the first thing what what we need to do is, is a core only
• 23:16
  channel consumer journey. And then when we figure that
• 23:19
  out, then we connect those touch points in a meaningful way.
• 23:22
  Yeah. Well, one of the things that one
• 23:24
  of the things that I picked up this year going to the
• 23:26
  conferences is the fact that digital touch points, there are
• 23:30
  so many now in terms of previously, you know, maybe
• 23:33
  there was 5 or 6 touch points before the consumer landed on
• 23:36
  your website. Now it's growing to 12 or 15 and
• 23:39
  conversion takes longer online than it's ever done before.
• 23:45
  Unless you know, you're, you're lucky and you hit a sweet
• 23:49
  product that is doing well on TikTok or something.
• 23:51
  I don't know. But I'm just curious when you
• 23:53
  look at the future and you look at the future of e-commerce,
• 23:57
  what what are the trends that you think that will be shaping
• 24:01
  the, you know, looking into the distance?
• 24:03
  Yeah, I think one of the one of the big trends of course and we
• 24:06
  we hear it a lot. I'm sure I'm sure you Alex, and
• 24:08
  also the listeners heard a lot about it that had a retail media
• 24:12
  is back that the cookie less word is gone.
• 24:13
  And then now and now, you know, everything is that.
• 24:15
  And now brands who've been solely focusing on on direct to
• 24:19
  consumer channels or like, you know, direct sales, they are now
• 24:23
  starting to be a bit afraid. Like, OK, now what's going to
• 24:26
  happen with me that that I'm going to to to lose basically
• 24:30
  that the base of a consumer, a customer, sorry, who who could
• 24:35
  choose through through retailers, for example.
• 24:38
  That's because I'm not going to be able to to reach them, for
• 24:40
  example. And then this is where I think a
• 24:43
  big, yeah, let's say a big mistake, what brands usually do
• 24:48
  is that then they start to just switch, like, OK, now I'm going
• 24:51
  to post that. And then I'm going to start to
• 24:53
  focus on my retailer relationships.
• 24:55
  And then we are going to build together through their retail
• 25:00
  media networks, our campaigns. And then my whole budget goes
• 25:06
  there. And then you start to forget
• 25:08
  that. Yeah.
• 25:08
  But you know, it's it's, it's not going to work because simply
• 25:13
  focusing on one channel, that's really the past.
• 25:15
  And this is where I believe that, you know, especially for
• 25:17
  e-commerce, the future comes around that how you can manage
• 25:20
  to connect touch points instead of just, you know, building the
• 25:24
  robust, let's say retailer focused growth strategy.
• 25:29
  Now your growth strategy should be actually Omni channel growth
• 25:32
  strategies which are also connecting your direct to
• 25:35
  consumer business to to your retailer strategic retailer
• 25:39
  partnerships and you'd rather choose less than many, but do
• 25:44
  those few really, really well. That works.
• 25:48
  Yeah, I'm I'm I'm looking at the time and I'm thinking there's so
• 25:52
  much that you've just said there to to sort of unpack and go go
• 25:56
  through, but unfortunately we we've hit the I need to let get
• 26:00
  back to what your the your day job.
• 26:03
  So thank you so much for giving up the time and and spending
• 26:07
  that with us. Super insightful in terms of
• 26:11
  the, the, the, the, the elements that we spoke to.
• 26:13
  So I just wanted to say thank you.
• 26:14
  I really appreciate it.