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The Bakeshop Mysteries—Series Overview · Reality Writes

0:05
SPEAKER_04: Hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of Reality Rights.
0:08
SPEAKER_04: I am author Ellie Alexander.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: And I am the Tech Guy.
0:13
SPEAKER_04: The Tech Guy.
0:15
SPEAKER_04: This is the podcast where we peel back the curtain on all things writing, publishing, bookish, you name it.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes Star Wars.
0:23
SPEAKER_04: Sometimes Star Wars.
0:24
SPEAKER_04: Sometimes we get a little tailor-swifty.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:27
SPEAKER_04: Depends on the mood.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: There's always time for that.
0:29
SPEAKER_04: Always time.
0:30
SPEAKER_04: Always time.
0:31
SPEAKER_04: But today we're going to go back to the bake shop.
0:34
SPEAKER_04: We're going to go back to the beginning of the bake shop mysteries.
0:37
SPEAKER_04: And uh give those of you who may not be familiar with the series a little um insight into how it came to be, how it was developed, and also talk a little bit about the pros and the cons of writing a long-running series.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: No spoilers.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: So if you're if you haven't read the series, if you're not familiar with the books, if you if you're not very far into the series, don't worry.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: We're not going to give anything away that um, you know, no victim names.
1:14
SPEAKER_04: No victim names.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, none of that.
1:17
SPEAKER_04: No, none of that, none of that.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: No.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, so book 19 in the series is about to come out, which uh is bananas to me.
1:28
SPEAKER_04: It's wild.
1:29
SPEAKER_04: I still can't believe it.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of books.
1:33
SPEAKER_04: It's a lot of books.
1:33
SPEAKER_04: It's a lot of books in one series, and I'm writing book 21 because I'm always ahead.
1:40
SPEAKER_04: And so I'm currently working on the 21st book in the series.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because book 20 comes out uh February, late February of next year.
1:50
SPEAKER_04: Of 2025.
1:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: So it's not that far away, actually.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
1:54
SPEAKER_04: No, no, it's gonna be here in like a flash.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:57
SPEAKER_04: So I thought it would be fun to kind of give you a little rundown of the series thus far, like the tech guy said, without spoilers.
2:05
SPEAKER_04: But to start completely, my favorite thing is the pitch that uh started the series, which came from my editor, actually.
2:15
SPEAKER_04: It was her pitch, and that is the Gilmore Girls with Murder.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: Gilmore Girls with Murder.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: The Gilmore Girls with Murder.
2:26
SPEAKER_04: Which is it kind of is.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Um and you immediately thought of Ashland as the setting for this when when she was talking to you about it.
2:42
SPEAKER_04: Instantly, yeah, without a doubt.
2:44
SPEAKER_04: My agent called and said, Um I think you like baking.
2:48
SPEAKER_04: Do you like baking?
2:49
SPEAKER_04: I get the sense that you like baking.
2:51
SPEAKER_04: Those were like the three sentences.
2:53
SPEAKER_04: I was like, yeah, where's this going?
2:55
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
2:56
SPEAKER_04: I know.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: And also, like, why?
2:57
SPEAKER_04: Like why it's like um because this was a series that uh came to me through my agent, which is pretty cool because that doesn't always happen.
3:06
SPEAKER_04: Although it happens more often than you might think.
3:09
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I we talked about this briefly before, but I had two weeks to put together a proposal and the first three chapters and really like a vision for the next three books in the series, because I was hoping that it would be three books.
3:23
SPEAKER_04: Um, so I came up with titles.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: Which is hilarious to think about.
3:26
SPEAKER_04: I know, right?
3:28
SPEAKER_04: Uh I came up with titles for three books.
3:30
SPEAKER_04: You were such a good sport because I was like, we have to go to Ashland like tomorrow.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: So we packed up uh and we drove to Ashland, which is about five-hour drive with stops uh from Portland.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: And um, for those who don't know, Ashland is a tiny town of about 20,000 residents tucked in the Siskiyou Mountains of Southern Oregon.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: It is within a stone's throw of the state of California.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: It is the last, the last town on uh interstate five before you cross the border and go into California.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: So it is at the southernmost tip of the state.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: And um it's just it's a beautiful town.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's dreamy.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Um you can pet a bear if you want.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: No, don't just don't don't pet the bears.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: You can you'll see bears.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: You will see bears, but don't pet them.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: Um definitely don't pet them.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: Lots of deer, lots of turkeys, yeah.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: Just uh wildlife galore.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: Um rattlesnakes every once in a while.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: But uh but yeah, it's um it's just this little beautiful Pacific Northwest Hamlet um in the you know in the mountains down there.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: So the elevation's about 2,000 feet.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: So it gets all four seasons, uh five now if you count smoke season.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: Umfortunate, but uh reality out here on the west coast.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, you you just you were like, I know where and and I actually don't ever have remember having been to Ashland before.
5:08
SPEAKER_04: You didn't grow up going to Ashland, like I did, yeah.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you you did.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: So you're like, we're going to Ashland.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, where is Ashland?
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Like I I've never, I mean, and that's the other thing.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Like every time people um when you say, you know, oh when we lived in Ashland, you were like, Well, we we live in Ashland, and they're like, Ashland, Kentucky?
5:29
SPEAKER_02: Ashland, like uh there's like seven other Ashlands in the in the US, and now it's Ashland, Oregon.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, we packed up and we drove down.
5:38
SPEAKER_04: We packed up, we drove down.
5:39
SPEAKER_04: Uh, we got tickets to see uh, do you remember the first play that we saw at Shake's at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival?
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Was that Count of Monte Cristo?
5:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Gosh, yeah.
5:52
SPEAKER_04: It was the hottest night of our lives.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: No, the the play was fantastic.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't want I don't want the darlings to think like uh oh, he's like complained about the play was phenomenal, but it was like 185 degrees, and I'm probably only exaggerating by like three degrees.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: Um and it was in the Elizabethan theater, which is for those of you who don't know, that Oregon Shakespeare Festival has multiple theaters within the city of Ashland, and the Elizabethan is the outdoor theater that is just absolutely phenomenal to see a play under the stars.
6:26
SPEAKER_04: Um but I feel like all of your language today sounds like your jewels.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: I I it's like Achmatrius has come through.
6:33
SPEAKER_04: This Hamlet, I'm loving it.
6:34
SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah, keep going.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh like little known secret.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: I've read a few of the baked shop mysteries.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh I've lived many of the baked shop mysteries.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Um so um, but it was so hot.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I sweat through everything I was wearing, and that uh it was just it was so I I you know hats off to the to the actors that oh my gosh because I don't know how they were wearing those costumes and like lived to do another performance.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: It was so hot.
7:10
SPEAKER_04: Um well and like all this the choreography for that, because the sword fighting and like it was a physical show for the actors too.
7:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: But that was a phenomenal production.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I I really enjoyed that.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Um it was a little long.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh it was like uh it probably felt longer because uh it was 185 degrees, but I think the runtime was just shy of seven hours.
7:33
SPEAKER_04: It was three hours, but it felt like seven.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: It felt like seven.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: That's fair.
7:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
7:40
SPEAKER_04: So uh we spent like a week.
7:43
SPEAKER_04: I just we went everywhere.
7:45
SPEAKER_04: You and Sky Guy came along for the show, a zillion pictures.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: How old was he for that first trip?
7:52
SPEAKER_02: That's is that's wild.
7:54
SPEAKER_04: Um I know he was probably seven or eight.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
8:02
SPEAKER_04: That's I know.
8:05
SPEAKER_04: Um there was that massive rainstorm that came through and flooded downtown and mixed and everything.
8:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I just that was crazy.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: We had 185 degree heat, and then like the next day it just started.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: We were we were driving down uh Siskiw uh Boulevard, the main main street that goes through Ashland, and it just started raining and it kept raining and raining, and suddenly like we the the water was up halfway up on the wheels.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: It was there was so much water coming down.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: It was that was I was like, what is happening right now?
8:42
SPEAKER_04: It flooded Ashland Creek, it flooded the plaza, it flooded all of the businesses there.
8:46
SPEAKER_04: All of these things, the hot Shakespeare under the stars, the flood, these have all made their way into the series because I don't have to stretch my imagination much because we go, we would have these research trips.
8:59
SPEAKER_04: We went a lot too, we because we would go in the winter during the offseason.
9:02
SPEAKER_04: We went a couple times, just you and me, which was fun.
9:04
SPEAKER_04: And um, I remember going to Oberon's, which is Puck's in the book one night, and the funkiest band you can ever imagine.
9:11
SPEAKER_04: It was clear we were the only like non-SOU Southern Oregon University students in the pub.
9:17
SPEAKER_04: Um, but it was really fun to see like different seasons and make sure that I was capturing the vibe of the off-season versus what it was like during the summer when a gob of tourists were in town for Shakespeare.
9:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: COVID, um, COVID kind of changed all of that.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: But um I and I don't know what the numbers are now, uh, but I remember hearing the stat that uh like the hundreds of thousands of tourists a year that the Oregon Shakespeare Festival brought in for the the the city of Ashland, and that that was phenomenal.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: Um I know it's coming back, like it's the like the subscriptions and everything, it's researching.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: So that that is very good to see, but it went through some dark times the past five years.
10:04
SPEAKER_04: It did, and that's working its way into the series as the series has grown too, which is kind of fun because the series has been able to parallel a lot of the real life experiences that we had in Ashland.
10:17
SPEAKER_04: But after that first research trip, I came home, I got to work, I wrote three chapters, I wrote a series proposal, I sketched out what the first three books would be like.
10:26
SPEAKER_04: My agents submitted it and it sold two weeks later, and I was off to the races.
10:31
SPEAKER_04: Um, and early on, I knew that Jules, Juliet Montague Capshaw, was going to be a pastry chef who had come home to heal her broken heart and help run her family bake shop tour with her mom Helen.
10:45
SPEAKER_04: And Helen has been running the bake shop for decades since Jules was a little girl.
10:51
SPEAKER_04: Jules' dad died when she was young, so that's not a spoiler.
10:54
SPEAKER_04: Like he's never involved in the books.
10:56
SPEAKER_04: Although there is one book in which uh we get to sort of flashback and meet him.
11:01
SPEAKER_04: Um and Helen is sort of like the town therapist.
11:04
SPEAKER_04: Everyone comes in for a delicious latte and one of her, you know, beautiful orange cardamom scones, let's say.
11:13
SPEAKER_04: Uh, because that's on my mind right now, because the next book is sticks and scones, uh, but also for her listening ear.
11:20
SPEAKER_04: And um, I had Jules and Helen pretty solid because I was using that concept of the Gilmore girls with Lorelai and Rory as my model.
11:30
SPEAKER_04: And um, the rest of the cast, I still have the just sheet of paper that I started sketching out names randomly: Sterling, Andy, Steph, um, Richard, Lord, and the professor.
11:44
SPEAKER_04: Uh, and that was kind of what I started with.
11:48
SPEAKER_04: And I had no idea that fast forward 19 books later, not only would there be a group of readers who adore jewels, but that there they would also like have such an attachment to this bigger and broader cast too, which is so cool.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and it's been great to see the cast grow over the course of the 19 books too.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: And and um uh one thing that is um what book were we on when or were you on when we uh moved?
12:23
SPEAKER_04: I was trying to think about that too.
12:25
SPEAKER_04: I think I was working on um another one bites the crust or till till death do us tar.
12:33
SPEAKER_04: No, it would have been another one bites the crust, I think.
12:35
SPEAKER_04: Maybe live and let pie.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh it was live and let pie because that was the that was the lake, right?
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:41
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: So for for those darlings out there who don't know, like we lived in Ashland for what, almost seven years.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: And we moved there because of this series.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Like we never would have.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: I think I I we we were we were at a point, I think in our both our lives where we were we needed a change and and we thought, you know, that things like we we had we were going to Ashland like I don't know, four or five times a year.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: Um like we just decided, yeah, what let's let's see what it's like to live there.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: And and it was phenomenal.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Um I I mean there were some downsides, like I said, the smoke would being one of them.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: The fact that town almost burned down uh a few years ago.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, the wind's blown the other direction, and it's kind of bad news for Ashland.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh it it was um uh that I I the thing I guess that um that I was always like felt really proud of and and um could tell that you know you did too was just the number of comments you got from like lifelong residents of Ashland who became fans of the series early on who were like you just nailed it like in terms of the setting and the the kind of vibe of the town and everything, and and that was really cool.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Um because that was all the those comments were happening before we moved there.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't it wasn't that we um that we didn't, you know, that that well well you live there, so of course you know it.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: No, it was that you do a lot of research and and like your your settings are real and and um and you like to make them accurate.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: Now, some of it's not accurate, like Ashland is 20,000 residents, so no, like 20 people have not been murdered in the last you know eight years, 10 years there.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: But um uh so just take that with a grain of salt, I guess.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
14:46
SPEAKER_04: That's my favorite story.
14:47
SPEAKER_04: Uh we came down for the very first book talk, and I don't usually get nervous speaking in front of people.
14:52
SPEAKER_04: Like I love meeting readers in real life.
14:54
SPEAKER_04: And um, if you have met me like this, I'm the exact same in person, right?
14:59
SPEAKER_04: Uh, but I was nervous to speak to an entire audience of Ashland local residents because same thing.
15:05
SPEAKER_04: At that point in time, we'd come down five, six, seven times before the first book was published.
15:10
SPEAKER_04: Um, but I wanted to make sure that I had captured the tone and the spirit.
15:14
SPEAKER_04: And um, I did a talk upstairs at Blimpsbury Books, and I was like sick to my stomach.
15:19
SPEAKER_04: I think I made you pull over and like and go to the bathroom before the talk because I was like, oh my gosh, like this is what if they all hate it?
15:27
SPEAKER_04: And um, I did the talk and I was kind of trying to gauge the audience and people were laughing and smiling.
15:32
SPEAKER_04: And then at the end, so I was feeling better.
15:33
SPEAKER_04: I was feeling more relaxed as the talk went on.
15:36
SPEAKER_04: And then at the very end, I was like, Well, are there any questions?
15:39
SPEAKER_04: And I I swear, like every single thing was that's a lot.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I kind of just kind of inched toward the back, you know.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: I was like, Oh god, I'm leaving.
15:58
SPEAKER_04: And the woman's like, you know, we just need to tell you that there has never been a murder many years.
16:05
SPEAKER_04: I was like, okay, phew, all right.
16:07
SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah, yeah.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: But um they I for the most part, everybody is super positive about it.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: They they love it.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: There is that one contingent of people who um are just their the sword that they're gonna die on is that it's not Mount McLaughlin, it's Mount Yeah, there is a whole contingent of yes, yes, because the the mountains have other names.
16:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's funny.
16:30
SPEAKER_04: There, there, there will be local readers who have certain, you know, and they grew up in the region, like I totally understand.
16:36
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, they'll have specific things where it's like, no, Ellie, you know.
16:40
SPEAKER_04: And some of the things like I've intentionally, and I the reason why I can't even tell you.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: Like I changed Oberon's to Puck's because I love Puck.
16:52
SPEAKER_04: He's my favorite character from Midsummer Night's Dream.
16:55
SPEAKER_04: Um, and like I take the base of someplace like that, but then I make it my own.
16:59
SPEAKER_04: And like with Paddington Station, which is the real name of the mercantile in town, the store that's phenomenal, uh, that we've partnered for for tons of events and will this year for Mystery Fest, I changed it to London Station because I wanted it to feel like British.
17:14
SPEAKER_04: So I will do that a lot of times too.
17:16
SPEAKER_04: I'll just like tweak real places and then uh, you know, include some other things.
17:22
SPEAKER_04: The one thing I knew from the beginning was anything that would have a negative connotation to it, I would make a name up for.
17:32
SPEAKER_04: So if you come to Ashland, you can see the real places easily.
17:36
SPEAKER_04: And we did this last year at Mystery Fest, and we'll do it again this year.
17:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, you can see Mix is where I imagine tort would sit.
17:43
SPEAKER_04: Uh, that's the bake shop in the series.
17:44
SPEAKER_04: You can see um a rose by other any other name is really Manzanita Flowers, you know, like you can go through the whole town.
17:51
SPEAKER_04: Um, and some of those things I renamed and some I didn't.
17:53
SPEAKER_04: But across the plaza is where Richard Lorde, Jules Nemesis, um, he owns the Mary Windsor Hotel, and the Mary Windsor is just decrepit and falling apart.
18:06
SPEAKER_04: Um, and there is not really a hotel across the street.
18:09
SPEAKER_04: That's fictional because if if it was a real place, I wouldn't want to throw shade at it.
18:14
SPEAKER_04: Right.
18:14
SPEAKER_04: Although I did learn this was many years after we had been living there.
18:19
SPEAKER_04: So that building is really City Hall, but it was originally a hotel.
18:25
SPEAKER_04: Um, so maybe I don't know, Richard Lorde existed 150 years ago in Ashland.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, and not to throw shade, but that building is also a little decrepit and falling apart.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Like it is like it's not seismically safe.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: So it needs to be like there's a whole thing going on right now about building a new city hall.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean it's been going on for years because that building is it's old and it it is not, yeah, it it needs help.
18:52
SPEAKER_04: It's old, it needs help, yeah.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
18:55
SPEAKER_04: Um, but I wish I like could articulate why with my creative process, why sometimes I'm like, oh yeah, that's gonna be the real name of something like Ashland Springs Hotel.
19:06
SPEAKER_04: I kept that name.
19:07
SPEAKER_04: Um, I don't know why.
19:08
SPEAKER_04: I just I liked it.
19:10
SPEAKER_04: Um and then other times I'll be like, no, that needs a whole like the Green Goblin is a restaurant and a pub that doesn't exist either, but I liked the space on the end of the corner there across the street from Lithia Park.
19:22
SPEAKER_04: So um yeah.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
19:25
SPEAKER_04: That's how it went.
19:26
SPEAKER_04: The the thing that I really found, and it never went away, and it'll be funny being back in Ashland in a month or two, is after writing a series for so long, the secondary cast, well, all of the cast are just such a part of me.
19:42
SPEAKER_04: I don't have to think about the way that Lance is gonna show up in a scene.
19:46
SPEAKER_04: Like, I know what he's gonna do, I know what he's gonna be wearing, I know the flourish that he's gonna have.
19:51
SPEAKER_04: Um, the same goes for Andy.
19:53
SPEAKER_04: Like he just feels like a little brother to me.
19:56
SPEAKER_04: Like, I I want to hug Andy.
19:57
SPEAKER_04: Well, the entire time that we lived there, there would really not be a day that would go by where I would be like starting off the day writing or whatever, and think, like, well, I should just pop down to tort and see like what's on the menu today.
20:12
SPEAKER_04: And I'd have to stop myself and be like, it's not real.
20:16
SPEAKER_04: That's in your head.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: Like, although, although it became real for our friends that we made living there because they they would often say, Do you want to go get a coffee at tort?
20:27
SPEAKER_02: And we just knew that they meant mix.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was like that that part was pretty fun.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: That you know, even even people who had lived there far longer than we had were suddenly living in that alternate, you know, reality of the bake shop mysteries.
20:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, which is so cool and still surreal to me.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:48
SPEAKER_04: Um, and then so again, this is not really a spoiler, but at the beginning of the series, when Jules moves back home, she finds a little apartment above the outdoor store elevation that she uh rents.
21:02
SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, maybe she stays.
21:04
SPEAKER_04: This is a spoiler.
21:05
SPEAKER_04: Guess what?
21:05
SPEAKER_04: She is gonna stay because we're on book 19.
21:07
SPEAKER_04: So I think you're I think you'll figure that out, right?
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, and maybe Jules is still alive and she is still investigating crimes.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: In Ashley.
21:17
SPEAKER_04: Go figure.
21:18
SPEAKER_04: Um, so I just saw this like little sign for rent for this apartment when we were there one of the first times, and I was like, oh, well, that's where she'll live because she can just walk downstairs and walk down to the block to Tort and she'll be in the know and she has to pass Richard Lorde every day.
21:32
SPEAKER_04: Like, this is perfect.
21:34
SPEAKER_04: Well, fast forward five or six years later, I'm out for a walk in Lithia Park, and that entire building is engulfed in flames.
21:44
SPEAKER_04: It totally burned down.
21:46
SPEAKER_04: Like it destroyed the mountain hardware, was the real name of the shop, and the apartment above it.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, that was really sad.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, I ran all five of the Ashland fire.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Trucks showed up to fight that fire.
22:02
SPEAKER_04: So I know seriously no, but like yeah.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was really that was really sad.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, last time we were there, it was still under construction, too.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: Like they're still trying to restore it.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: Because all these the just so like for those who aren't familiar with Ashland, all the buildings on the plaza are like historic buildings.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: They're they've been around for hundred, like well, over a hundred years for sure, but I mean maybe closer to two.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: I don't know at this point now, I'm not sure, but they're all very, very old buildings.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: And so when they have flooded in the past, which has happened a few times, and um, and then obviously when they catch on fire, like it takes a lot of work to restore them.
22:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
22:51
SPEAKER_04: Um, and then the I would say like um one of the challenges at this stage of the game is as we experienced, Ashland went through monumental changes over the course of what has it been now, like 15, 16 years of writing this series.
23:11
SPEAKER_04: And that has to parallel at some level in the books, right?
23:16
SPEAKER_04: And so the con, I would say, potentially, of writing a long-running series with the this long-running cast and secondary characters as well, is how do they change and grow?
23:28
SPEAKER_04: Like, is it realistic that they stay at tort forever?
23:31
SPEAKER_04: How do all of their arcs and journeys align?
23:36
SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, if you think about any sort of retail or restaurant, bake shop, you name it, like there's always kind of this ebb and flow of staff and customers and people.
23:47
SPEAKER_04: And Ashland really has, um, I would say, more than anywhere else we've ever lived, there is really kind of this sort of nomadic culture to it because actors come in for a season at Oregon Shakespeare Festival or at the Oregon Cabaret and they come and go.
24:02
SPEAKER_04: And so you have a lot of that.
24:04
SPEAKER_04: Um, but I also don't want readers to murder me because at some point in time, you know, I don't know, one of your favorite casts might have to be a suspect, move on.
24:17
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
24:17
SPEAKER_04: We'll see.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, and also related to that, the just time passing and the growth and the change and everything, that that's um that's that has actually given you the opportunity to include various things as plot points or characters, actual characters within many of the books.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: And we won't go into details because uh some of them will get a little spoilery.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, but but it it has been interesting that there's a lot of stuff that happens in a small town.
24:52
SPEAKER_04: Like it's never a problem to come up with material at all.
24:55
SPEAKER_04: Like I have too much material, yeah.
24:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
24:59
SPEAKER_04: And then thinking about um, you know, just sort of real things that we would experience that I would be like, well, okay, there's an entire plot for a book now.
25:08
SPEAKER_04: Right.
25:09
SPEAKER_04: Going back to Live and Let Pie.
25:11
SPEAKER_04: This is not a spoiler because when you get to this book, this is like the back cover content.
25:17
SPEAKER_04: So you'll know this right away.
25:19
SPEAKER_04: But um the lake had been really low, Immigrant Lake, which is just right on the outskirts of town.
25:25
SPEAKER_04: And uh there was a big story in the paper about how while the lake levels were so low, this entire town that was long buried underwater, two young girls had been swimming and could see like the gumball machine from the gas station.
25:41
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, what?
25:44
SPEAKER_04: Buried under the lake?
25:46
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
25:47
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so that becomes the whole premise for Live and Let Buy.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then it wasn't until several years after you wrote that book when we were unfortunately in a terrible, terrible drought that led to a lot of wildfire danger.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: But we went out for a hike at that lake and we saw stuff, we saw remnants of some of the buildings.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: We saw the um there's a an engine from a car.
26:15
SPEAKER_05: One engine, yeah.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: Like an old, old engine from a car.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: Um because it was part of the auto shop that had been there, and the town um was just sitting there in the lake in the dry lake bed.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: Um right next to the foundation of what used to be the the wooden building for that auto shop.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: It was that that was wild to to see that.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: Um and this all this was an intentional flooding.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: Like I don't like just so people know, it was like they rerouted the highway and they built the highway.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: And and so that everybody knew the town was gonna be flooded.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't like it wasn't.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: We just talked in a previous episode about, or maybe it was in the after party about your love of natural disasters and um fictional, like not like the actual, like not the dead, not destruction and death and everything in real life.
27:09
SPEAKER_02: But this was not one of those.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: This was like an intentional uh decision uh made to do that, but but very cool nonetheless, and very cool that it made it into the plot of a book.
27:22
SPEAKER_04: Everything makes its way into everything's fair game, you know.
27:25
SPEAKER_04: Um, but that reminds me, like I remember I got email from a reader saying, uh, I think you made a mistake on this because you talk about the fact that they they dammed the lake.
27:36
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, no, they damned the upper legs and they created Yeah, I know.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: Um well without naming names or doing any spoilers, that on that going back to that first research trip that we went down for, you were sitting in mix and met the eventual murder victim of Me, Ear Baker.
28:00
SPEAKER_04: Yes, I did, Nancy Hudson.
28:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:02
SPEAKER_04: Uh I've told this story a zillion times, but it's always worth a retelling because it's so good.
28:06
SPEAKER_04: It's just like the universe was like, oh, here you go.
28:11
SPEAKER_04: I'm just gonna plant this in your lap for you.
28:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was sitting in the corner taking notes.
28:15
SPEAKER_04: You and Sky Guy were off adventuring.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: And uh this woman came in and she was horrible, just absolutely horrible.
28:24
SPEAKER_04: Cut the line, started berating the poor barista, screaming that her coffee was supposed to be 180 degrees and it was clearly only 165.
28:32
SPEAKER_04: And I'm thinking, do you walk around with a thermometer?
28:35
SPEAKER_04: And you're gonna be able to do it.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: She probably does.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: She probably does.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, she probably does.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:39
SPEAKER_04: Too shy.
28:40
SPEAKER_04: Um, and she just made this giant scene.
28:43
SPEAKER_04: She was horrendous.
28:44
SPEAKER_04: And so I just made a little note in my notebook like, well, you can die in a book, and lo and behold, she does.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: So you never know who's watching.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Picadia Barista and and speak, I mean, real life happenings in Ashland have made their way into the selection of other murder victims in later books in this series as well.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
29:10
SPEAKER_04: Well, and then throughout the series, getting to do things like um Catch Me If You Candy is uh all about the Halloween parade.
29:18
SPEAKER_04: And the Halloween parade in Ashland is like nothing you can imagine.
29:22
SPEAKER_04: I know that, and I've heard from readers like, oh, this is so over the top.
29:25
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, no, this is real.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: If anything, it's it's it's not uh enough, it's not over the top enough, right?
29:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:35
SPEAKER_04: The costume level is on par with, I don't know, like the Halloween Ashland version of um some fashion runway show.
29:46
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
29:47
SPEAKER_04: I can't even come up with an analogy, but I think because there's such an artistic community and you have so many theater people in town, and it used to be that the parade would happen right as OSF went dark for the season.
30:00
SPEAKER_04: Um now they've cut their schedule short a little bit.
30:02
SPEAKER_04: So it was like everyone would want to let off steam, but the costumes are out of this world.
30:07
SPEAKER_04: They are what you would see on the stage.
30:09
SPEAKER_04: Like you cannot just show up.
30:11
SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can, but um most people do not just show up with something off the rack from Target.
30:15
SPEAKER_04: Like you bring it.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: So I I've uh um while we've been talking here, knowing that this is a like back to the bake shop series, and you've got a new book coming out uh very soon.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: Um I the um I've got some impromptu questions.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: So and I know the answers to all these, but a lot of a lot of the darlings probably do too.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: But these a lot of these are it it never ceases to amaze me how many times you can tell the same stories and people go, that what?
30:51
SPEAKER_02: That's real.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: We're like, you didn't you just hear this last year?
30:54
SPEAKER_02: No, okay, whatever.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: But you know, hey, that's great.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh entertainment for everyone.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but for those listening who aren't familiar with the series, should people start at the beginning of the series?
31:07
SPEAKER_02: Should they start with me, your baker?
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Can they pick up any book and start reading?
31:11
SPEAKER_02: I know your personal thoughts on this, but I just want you to tell everybody.
31:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:15
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think you should start from the beginning.
31:17
SPEAKER_04: I do, um, because there's so much character development that I have poured into the series, right?
31:23
SPEAKER_04: But technically speaking, you can pick up any of the books as a standalone and start there.
31:28
SPEAKER_04: And I would say I have heard from probably an equal amount of readers who have either started from book one and come along the whole way, and readers who have picked up, let's say, book 12 and then gone back, or, you know, like popped through and and read all over the place, um, which, you know, my OCD mind cannot handle.
31:47
SPEAKER_04: But um, they are written in a way that each book is a standalone.
31:51
SPEAKER_04: And hopefully, if I've done my job well as a writer, I'm giving you enough kind of breadcrumbs about where Jules is at and kind of the secondary cast that you at least have an understanding of what's going on.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: Ben, that's great.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: But I will say I'm gonna, I'm gonna like from my point of view, um readers, if you pick up book 14 and then you go back to book one, do not, and I mean do not send an email to Ellie asking, where's Marty in this one?
32:25
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: Where like, you know, I mean, just if you're gonna go backwards in the series, just understand that some of the people that you meet later in the series might not be at the beginning of the series, right?
32:35
SPEAKER_04: So we grow and develop, that's what we do in real life, yeah, yeah.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: It's you know, you meet new people.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh world expands.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: Just do not send those emails because uh people send those emails and it's just like yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:52
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, okay.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: That's uh that yeah, that's a good one.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: Um I might get in a lot of trouble for asking this, but okay.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean from you.
33:03
SPEAKER_04: Um, okay.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: How many big shop mysteries are there gonna be?
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Hey, we asked the hard-hitting questions here on reality rights.
33:13
SPEAKER_04: So no, I don't know.
33:16
SPEAKER_04: I really don't know.
33:16
SPEAKER_04: That's the answer right now.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: That's a cop out.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: I know a politician's answer if I've ever heard one.
33:22
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
33:23
SPEAKER_04: Um for sure 21.
33:26
SPEAKER_04: Definitely 21.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:28
SPEAKER_04: I already know what I want to write for book 22, so I would say for sure 22.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, we just went up one in like five seconds.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: The series just increased by one.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
33:39
SPEAKER_04: And then I don't know after that.
33:41
SPEAKER_04: Um, because I don't want there can't be spoilers, but for anyone who is caught, any darlings who are caught up, like you know what's happening with Jules and the rest of the team at Tort at this point in time.
33:53
SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm not at a point where I'm like, I I don't want to write these.
33:57
SPEAKER_04: I guess that's like when I get to the point that I'm like, oh, I have to write another bake shop.
34:02
SPEAKER_04: Then I then it's time to be done.
34:03
SPEAKER_04: I always get excited at the end of a book.
34:06
SPEAKER_04: I'm already like thinking ahead to who's coming next.
34:09
SPEAKER_04: But there does have to be an ending at some point.
34:13
SPEAKER_04: I know how it ends.
34:15
SPEAKER_04: I know exactly how it ends.
34:17
SPEAKER_04: I just don't know when it ends.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, there could be like I know what what is that?
34:22
SPEAKER_02: Like Midsummer Murders, that TV series, isn't there like 138 seasons of that show or something?
34:28
SPEAKER_04: So it seems like yeah, but at some point the darlings are gonna be like, just kill it.
34:32
SPEAKER_04: Just kill it.
34:32
SPEAKER_04: Okay, all right.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: So that uh follow-up question if the darlings want more bait shop mysteries, more than 22, what can they do to convince you?
34:44
SPEAKER_04: Um send me pie.
34:47
SPEAKER_04: No, I'm trying to, I have these two crows at the little community tool where I want to swim.
34:55
SPEAKER_05: Your own little murder.
34:57
SPEAKER_04: I have my own murder of crows.
34:59
SPEAKER_04: Um, and I'm Sky Guy has been having I feed them peanuts every time I swim.
35:03
SPEAKER_04: And now they just like watch over me in the pool, which is great.
35:06
SPEAKER_04: But Sky Guy is trying to get me to train them.
35:10
SPEAKER_04: And just last week, for the first time, they left me a pebble in my shoe.
35:13
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so now Sky Guy's like, leave a quarter in your shoe and make them bring you money.
35:19
SPEAKER_04: Um, no, uh pie.
35:21
SPEAKER_04: Can a crow bring me pie?
35:22
SPEAKER_04: Um, what could they do?
35:24
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
35:25
SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure.
35:26
unknown: Okay.
35:27
SPEAKER_04: Could they do anything?
35:28
SPEAKER_04: No, I mean they could just keep loving the series and telling me that they love it.
35:32
SPEAKER_04: Um but I think I will also like when I know that it has to end, I I know that I will know that that's a lot of no's.
35:44
SPEAKER_04: I will I will use my intuition.
35:47
SPEAKER_04: So even if the darlings want more, at that point, when I have this sense of like, hmm, this is the beat, this is where it needs to end, I will probably end it.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's fair.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Um spin-offs.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: That could be that could be interesting.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Are we talking like are we talking a Richard Lorde series?
36:12
SPEAKER_02: Or like where the the villain is the amateur sluice?
36:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: Has it been done?
36:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: Would it be popular?
36:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
36:22
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
36:23
SPEAKER_04: Who's decided?
36:24
SPEAKER_04: I'm thinking Lance.
36:25
SPEAKER_04: I'm thinking Lance gets a spin-off at some point.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Lance, Lance would be a good spin-off.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: Um okay, so you know, you know how it's gonna end.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: What color do you want the last book in the Bake Shop series to be?
36:38
SPEAKER_04: Black.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: Black wolves.
36:41
SPEAKER_04: I'm kidding.
36:42
SPEAKER_04: I'm kidding.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: There's no way that SMP would let that happen.
36:46
SPEAKER_04: There's no chance.
36:47
SPEAKER_04: I've always wanted, um, I've always wanted a beautiful brown cover.
36:52
SPEAKER_04: Brown, like pink and brown.
36:54
SPEAKER_04: Um, I really wanted that for Till Death Do Us Tard.
36:58
SPEAKER_04: And they said we cannot do brown in a cozy.
37:00
SPEAKER_04: Like cozies cannot be brown.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that kind of goes back to an episode we did about cruising mysteries.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, why?
37:07
SPEAKER_02: Why can't they be brown?
37:08
SPEAKER_04: I think the brown can be beautiful.
37:10
SPEAKER_04: It's one of my favorite colors.
37:11
SPEAKER_04: It's fallish.
37:13
SPEAKER_04: Brown was like coffee, you know, it could be like a latte.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, interesting.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very interesting.
37:20
SPEAKER_04: Or just black with a lot of blood splatter.
37:23
SPEAKER_04: No, I'm kidding.
37:25
SPEAKER_04: Umules has been the killer the whole time.
37:27
SPEAKER_04: That's the twist.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: Like cousies can't be brown.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: That's cozy can't be brown.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: That is, I don't, I don't agree with that.
37:38
SPEAKER_03: I don't honor.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: It's weird.
37:41
SPEAKER_03: We'll prove them wrong.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, we uh we've talked about the mystery fest.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: I know we had an episode about uh about the Ashland Mystery Festival and everything.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh we talked about some of our favorite places and everything.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, I know you have a number of favorite places in in Ashland.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: Um if uh if anybody's visiting for the first time, whether it's the Mystery Fest or or just visiting um and they have uh picked up one of the books, like what are the top three things that are bait shop related that they should do when they visit Ashland, Oregon?
38:22
SPEAKER_04: Oh, they should take a backstage tour of OSF.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
38:26
SPEAKER_04: Or see a play there.
38:27
SPEAKER_04: But if yeah, either or um 100%.
38:30
SPEAKER_04: If you can see a play in the Elizabethan, Shakespeare under the stars, even if it's 185 degrees, it's worth it.
38:38
SPEAKER_04: Well, I don't know.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: I would just say stay away from uh late July uh for like the shoulder season, May, September, early October, perfect choices.
38:51
SPEAKER_04: Uh you can almost put a blanket on if it's chilly too, you know, and get a hot chocolate.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: I was like, wait, where are we going with this?
38:56
SPEAKER_02: It's 185.
38:57
SPEAKER_02: We don't need a blanket.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, that's number one.
39:02
SPEAKER_04: Number two, you should go to Mix because then you can stand in front of the bake shop and see Joel's whole view of the plaza.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: Ironically, go to mix, not remix.
39:17
SPEAKER_04: Not remix, no.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: Although you can go to remix, but just know that that is not part of the bake shop lore.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: Mix opened a second location that's closer down to Southern Oregon University at the other end of town.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: And it is wonderful as well, but it's not where Torch is in the book.
39:35
SPEAKER_04: Although, funny story, um, I have heard from a number of readers who will be like, Jules cannot open this many restaurants in town.
39:42
SPEAKER_04: So, like as the series has gone on, Jules has has some other little side gigs.
39:46
SPEAKER_04: And I will say that that is inspired by Mix because Mix owns a lot of, and that happened over the course of the time that we were there.
39:55
SPEAKER_04: Flip the burger shop.
39:56
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah.
39:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in fact, the family that that owns Mix, like the and I'm not talking, it's not a big family.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: It's like these are like brothers and sisters.
40:05
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
40:05
SPEAKER_05: Uh-huh.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: They own like seven or eight restaurants in Ashland.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: So people can own more than one business.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: True, true story.
40:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know.
40:14
SPEAKER_04: I didn't make that part up, but it will be funny.
40:16
SPEAKER_04: You know, readers can suspend belief about like 20 murder sedations.
40:21
SPEAKER_04: Like, she can't be, she's too busy.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: Like how can she possibly do that?
40:26
SPEAKER_04: Okay, and then my third is Lithia Park.
40:29
SPEAKER_04: You have to go at least walk through Lithia Park and see the see the duck pond, walk up to the upper duck pond, maybe even do a whole little loop so you get the aerial view of Ashland and the hills.
40:39
SPEAKER_04: And yeah.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: Just don't pet the bears.
40:41
SPEAKER_04: Don't pet the bears.
40:42
SPEAKER_04: No.
40:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
40:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: Good advice?
40:45
SPEAKER_02: In all seriousness, you probably you're unlikely to actually see a bear while walking through Lithia Park.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: It happens, but not very often.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: You will see deer.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: You will definitely see deer.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: Also, do not pet the deer.
40:58
SPEAKER_02: Do not try to see the deer.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: Cover this in other episodes.
41:02
SPEAKER_02: Stay away from the deer.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: Take pictures from afar.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: Do not pet the deer.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:08
SPEAKER_04: Well, on that note, I think that's a great place to end it.
41:11
SPEAKER_04: Save a life.
41:12
SPEAKER_04: Don't pet the deer.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: That is.
41:15
SPEAKER_04: And maybe we'll see you in Ashland.
41:16
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: Not cutting the deer.
41:20
SPEAKER_04: Till next time.
41:21
SPEAKER_02: Till next time.