Latest / Full Spectrum Cycling / Chewey’s Salon Chair #41 – Musician Jeni Grouws, Horses on the MTB Trails, New Jersey Meat Hooks

Transcript

Chewey’s Salon Chair #41 – Musician Jeni Grouws, Horses on the MTB Trails, New Jersey Meat Hooks · Full Spectrum Cycling

• 0:01
  There we go. Should that be green? No, it's red. It's stupid. Oh, wait. Shh, you're fucking it up again. [laughs] Before we even get started, you're fucking it up. Did you play the music? Play the Goddamn music. Ah.
• 0:10
  [upbeat music] [laughs] [laughs] Hold on. Give me a, give me a countdown and a prompt. Okay.
• 0:28
  [upbeat music] Coming to you live from T-Box Bar and Grill in the city of Decorah, in the county of Winneshiek, in the state of Iowa, in the United States of America, it's Chewy's Lawn Chair number who fucking cares?
• 0:41
  [laughs] Woo! [laughs] Yeah, finally we get a number we can remember. Yeah, there you go. [laughs] Keep going. Uh, that- Am I running this or are you running it? I said it's Chewy's Lawn Chair. Ah, fuck.
• 0:50
  I think that's the start. Okay. Uh, and I- By the way, can I just say, I know I'm the guest here, but you kept saying... I thought you were calling it Chewy's Lawn Chair. No, it's Lawn Chair. Lawn Chair.
• 0:59
  Yeah, but I- I-... also like the idea of a lawn chair, so if you guys could just, like, have some- Oh... merch, it would be Chewy's Lawn Chair. I will buy one. Oh, no. No, no.
• 1:07
  You, you can come sit in the garage and he'll- Yeah... set you up with a lawn- The chair's in the garage, but I just- Okay... yeah, it's... There's no room for it in here yet. Do you need a shampoo- A salon chair...
• 1:13
  and a massage? I do. I need both. Oh. [gasps] Oh. [gasps] Is that part of the- We're gonna... No, we're gonna, we're gonna go out there and plug that sucker in, and I'm gonna take care of your hair for you.
• 1:19
  [laughs] You're gonna love it when it's done. [laughs] It's gonna be the best day I've ever had. [laughs] Oh, my gosh. Okay, so Chewy's Law... We haven't done these for a while, because we've been busy.
• 1:28
  I've been moving down here. Everybody's been busy doing shit. I got a lot of shit going on. Yes, and, and actually, what we haven't been doing is riding bikes much. I rode last night for the first time in a long time.
• 1:38
  Uh, well, other than the Bee Sting ride, which we... We'll talk about that later maybe. Okay. Um, yeah, well, I don't... We have absolutely...
• 1:46
  This is, this is seriously a podcast where we were sit- we were just sitting at T-Box having lunch and decided after six beers? I don't know. I had- A lot... just to be clear, I wanna be on the record to say I had three.
• 1:58
  Okay. [laughs] So you guys might have had six. And you got there late. I got there late. Yes. Yeah.
• 2:02
  And- Otherwise, it would've been more And not to be a downer right away, but the reason that I was drinking there was because our good friend Gerry Wright, um, from Hayward, Wisconsin, had a bad bicycle crash,
• 2:15
  and, um- [laughs] Yeah. I, I downed it right away, didn't I? [laughs] But, n- No, it's okay. We have to get it off... he, he's a good friend of ours. He was a trail builder.
• 2:24
  He was a great guy, and when he came down here on his vacation, he helped us build trails. Um, he- I met him on, I met him on RAGBRAI- Yeah... years and years ago.
• 2:32
  Like, like in the early '90s, we did RAGBRAI together, him and me. Sounds like he was kind of iconic. Yeah. He was, yeah. He, he was a Luther grad. Pretty. He came here.
• 2:39
  He went to college with Deke at Luther, so, um, great trail builder. He'd be down here on vacation, and he'd be building trails with us. Yeah. You know, and he was that kind of guy.
• 2:50
  He w- he loved to help people and build trails, the same stuff that we all do. He's one of us. Like, he would be here drinking with us right now. Yeah. Yes, without a doubt, or riding the trails with us right now. Yeah.
• 2:59
  All right, so- Well, I was just gonna crack- Yeah... a beer- Go ahead... so maybe we crack one to him. Just crack, yeah, crack a beer. Yeah, crack it to Gerry. Cheers to Gerry. There we go. To Gerry, cheers. Cheers.
• 3:08
  Oh, I don't... That's mine. Where's your beer? You didn't bring a beer, you rookie? Oh, fuck. Go get a fucking beer. [sighs] Fine. [laughs] You're in charge. Okay. I'll be back.
• 3:15
  Well, we're running the show, so- I'm pretty sure I grabbed this. You wanna, you wanna, like, maybe, um, introduce people? Oh, right. Yeah, we can do that.
• 3:20
  Uh, I am the brains of the show anyway, so- [laughs] Oh, this is gonna go downhill fast... uh, I'm here with Jenny Grouse, my roommate for another two weeks. Two weeks. Yep, and then you're moving to Omaha.
• 3:29
  You're a singer-songwriter. Yep. Um, sex symbol. Yes. You are- I forgot to put that on my resume. Thank you. Yeah, you should've put that up there. Thank you. [laughs] Yeah. So you, you travel the country.
• 3:40
  You've wrote a lot of songs. Yeah. You are a performer. Yeah. What do you also do you wanna say about it? Um, just that's it, just that. I waited a really long time to do it. Like, it's, it...
• 3:49
  So it's kinda cool to be an older person that decided to follow a dream and actually sort of made it a career.
• 3:55
  So I feel very, I feel very proud of that, um- It, it's weird to call yourself an older person in front of Chewy, just saying. [laughs] I was gonna say, where the hell did that come from?
• 4:02
  [laughs] But you know what I'm saying. Like, a lot of times- No, I don't understand at all... you think, like, musicians and stuff- You're not a teenybopper TikTok star- No... is what I'm saying...
• 4:08
  musicians, you think, like, they're, like, 20 years old. They're 30 years old at max, and sometimes if they have a great career, they're 40. I started in my 40s.
• 4:17
  Like, I didn't even start doing this till my 40s, and so I feel pretty excited that I get to do it. And I'm moving to Omaha- You're moving to Omaha...
• 4:23
  because I am a re- uh, an artist in residence, uh, for an organization in Omaha that has given me a house to stay in so that I can spend eight months actually working on my writing. So cheers to that as well.
• 4:36
  Cheers to you. Cheers to that. Hell yeah. Yeah. And, and, and you can't... The, you're... I think you're giving yourself bum rap here, because I think there's more people your age- Yeah... that are becoming artists now.
• 4:48
  Like, we're- Yeah... you're not... The guy who, who played our leading song is about your age. Really? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's cool. And, and, and you know, and he's been writing songs and playing them in his...
• 4:57
  When he was a kid, he played them in his basement in his mom's house, and- Yeah... he bought his own house, and then he made a little recording studio in his house now, in his garage. Well- So it's-...
• 5:03
  honestly, I think it's easier for people these days in... well, easier and harder. Easier to self-produce and to put yourself out there after you have established your... You know, I had k- I had kids. I had a career.
• 5:18
  I worked in radio, which is why I love this, by the way. This is the first time I've been in front of a microphone- [laughs]... since I, like, left radio in 2019. So thank you, Chewy. Oh, no, no problem.
• 5:27
  Um- This is fun... but it's kinda cool, because the... it's harder because there's so much music out there right now.
• 5:34
  There's, like, an onslaught of opportunities for you to find new music, and it's really difficult to kinda wade through it all and hope that somebody finds what you're doing. But we've been really lucky.
• 5:45
  We've been pretty successful as a band.
• 5:47
  Um, AV Grouse Band is the name of the band that I play in and write for, and we've hit top 10, number 7 and number 10 on the Billboard Blues Album charts, which when I worked in broadcasting, we would look at Billboard to see who was charting for different things.
• 6:01
  It was really cool, so to actually be on it- You're on it How cool, yeah... it was really cool.
• 6:05
  In fact, when they called us for that first album to tell us, they actually sent an email, and it said that, "You're gonna be on Billboard." And I was like [clicks tongue] [laughs] "This is a scam."
• 6:15
  [laughs]I didn't- I thought they were just trying to scam me for money. It was somebody trying to prey on the new bands, but no, it was real Yeah.
• 6:24
  Well, I wouldn't doubt there is, but- I'm sure there is I'm sure there is. Yeah. But your genre is blues rock? What do y- y- Yeah, so- Folk? Kinda? As the- yeah, as a band, it's blues rock.
• 6:32
  When I do things on my own, it's more like, uh, roots music, so it's informed by blues and country and folk, but that's when I do things on my own. When I do it with the band, it's definitely a more rocking edge to it.
• 6:45
  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this, uh, residency you have in Omaha is not the band, it's just you. Nope, it's just me. I got the residency- They saw the singer and they were like, "We don't need the rest of those guys.
• 6:54
  We'll just take the, that chick up front." [laughs] We can find another guy to play drums- Yeah [laughs]... someplace. [laughs] And you play guitar as well. You're not just vocals, right? I do. I do.
• 7:02
  I actually started, I used to play piano for years, and then I was a trumpet player, and so I used to- Do-do-do-do...
• 7:08
  I used to tour with a group when I was 20 as a trumpet player, and so- You know, there's a- you can- I've got guitars and a, and a, and a pump organ out there you can go play right now. A pump organ? Yeah.
• 7:17
  I don't- A cigar box ukulele. How are you at that? I'm good at- I- [laughs] I'll hit it all, you know. [laughs] I'll even play your knives. Whatever you have. She's not picky. She's not picky. There we go. Yeah.
• 7:25
  Well, obviously. Look who she lives with. I know. [laughs] By the way- It has- it- Different-...
• 7:30
  this has worked out really great because I did have that space in the basement, and you do like it, but she also told me a few things that like- I was-...
• 7:37
  I didn't know the hot water was not hooked up right on the washing machine. Yeah. I got this- I didn't know that the- you could differentiate the temperature in the washing machine, to be honest with you.
• 7:43
  Sorry to bring the feminine touch to your... But it was really nice. It was actually- And my clothes are shrinking on me. What does that mean? I have to say, it's thanks to your place in Decorah.
• 7:51
  We were s- I was sitting there with my friend Sarah, and, uh, Spinner walked in- She negotiated the shit out of me... yeah, she negotiated the deal, and- Oh, really? Yeah. She- Sarah's negotiated the whole deal.
• 8:00
  She is one of the top realtors in Winneshiek County. She negotiated the deal over drinks. We had a deg- And- We had a handshake on a certain dollar amount, and then later in the night she lowered it by 200 bucks.
• 8:10
  [laughs] And I shook her hands again. [laughs] So I got a sweet deal is what we're saying, Chewie, and I'm real excited about it. [laughs] You're- you're a great renter because you're never there. I'm never there. Yeah.
• 8:20
  Yeah, I was gonna say- Actually-...
• 8:21
  the number of times I've stopped up there, I have never seen you there once I w- I s- I moved in May 15th-ish, 14th, 15th, 16th, something like that, and I will tell you what, that I think I have counted- [dog barks] Ooh, are you upset about- Who's that?
• 8:35
  [dog barks] Clark, knock it off. Clark. Uh- We got a Corgi fight going on... 16 days, 16 evenings that I have- That you stayed there... slept there- Mm-hmm... [laughs] since May.
• 8:43
  But that- I'm on the road so much in the- Mm... in the summer especially. Like, that's the season, you know, we're doing- Sure... I- [dog barks] four or five shows. Yeah, it is frustrating. That's right.
• 8:53
  [dog barks] And there's other people. I mean, you did let your brother stay there. It- It's Clark and Viv. Oh yeah, my brother stayed there also. Yeah. Clark. Clark. [snaps fingers] I- yeah. Yeah...
• 9:00
  I came home from a camping trip and there was this, like, little hot Maserati outside with a- No, it wasn't a Maserati... it was a c- It's a Spider Fiat. Oh. Oh, that one. Holy shit. Oh, that's the- oh, those are cool.
• 9:09
  It's a convertible. I'm like, "I can't park my camper net-" Oh, it's a convertible? My camper in front of the house. My brother's Spider Fiat convertible. My brother was a Decorah High School graduate. [laughs] Oh.
• 9:18
  He now lives in the country of Colombia, uh, and works, uh, he does onli- actually, he does kinda what you do. Yeah. He works- We do the same thing. We- Yeah... I talk to him in the driveway.
• 9:26
  [laughs] But I'll tell you what, we- because he lives in Colombia, we now refer to him as Nick Escobar. [laughs] Oh. So [laughs] That fits.
• 9:34
  [laughs] But I had to look out because I didn't wanna drive my truck over the top of it because- No... it was this tiny little thing in f- in front of my house Well, but it's a convertible.
• 9:40
  It was c- I've never seen one that's a convertible. Yeah. Oh, it's tiny. Are they cool looking, though? Is it convertible? Oh, it's fast. You start it up, it's like br-br-br-br-br- Oh, yeah.
• 9:46
  It's amazing looking, and I'll tell you this, he used to live out in Los Angeles, and when we were on tour down in Yuma, Arizona, I think, he came down to see our band, and, uh, and then he and his girlfriend at the time drove and met us in Scottsdale, I think, and we all hung out there for, like, a night or two, and my brother had to drive me to the airport the last day.
• 10:08
  In that car? Yeah. His girlfriend couldn't even go with us. He had to put my suitcase in the only space in the trunk- There i- yeah, it's, it's, it's a-... and drive only me that w- It's a coupe.
• 10:17
  [laughs] It's a two-door tiny thing. It is the tiniest little vehicle. I, it's almost like a clown car. I bet it's fast. But it's fancy. Yeah. I bet it's fast. Uh, I'm certain that my brother has tested it. Yeah? Yeah.
• 10:31
  Mm-hmm. But you know, he lives in Colombia, so he can't take it down there with him, so it sits in a storage unit. I was wondering if it was actually, like- Yeah...
• 10:37
  your dad's car when he was here because it was like, you don't live here, right? [laughs] No. It's my brother's, but he l- my parents now live in Wabasha, Minnesota, right on the- Wabasha...
• 10:45
  Mississippi River, and, uh, so my brother has a little- If I was younger, I'd be mountain every woman in Wabasha. [laughs] You, you know what that's from? What is that a quote from? S- d- Angrier, Angry Old Men...
• 10:56
  Grumpy Old Men. Grumpy Old Men. Grumpy Old Men. Yeah. Grumpy Old Men. Yeah. He goes, "I'll be mountain every woman in Wabasha." When you said to us like, "Angry Old Men," I'm like, "But what?" Grumpy Old Men.
• 11:03
  Where does that come from? 12 Angry Men- Yeah... which I think Walter Matthau was also in, wasn't he? Mm. I think you just made that up. No, I know, I know- [laughs]... Henry Fonda was. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
• 11:13
  Okay, now we're- So he's s- why do you know that? Now g- everybody get the Google machines out. Well, because I'm a trivia master, Jesse. Okay. Did not know this. By the way, can we discuss that?
• 11:21
  You can pay your rent in trivia? I have known- I have a photo from a million years ago when my kids were little.
• 11:28
  In fact, my, my, my youngest daughter, who is now 19, just went off to Pomona College in California three days ago. She's off to start her college career. When she was an infant,
• 11:40
  Jesse, who, Spinner, y- y- came with Mike Knipper to my house- You don't use both my names. Or y- if you're gonna call me anything- And, and M-... don't put both the names in the same sentence- In the same-...
• 11:48
  'cause I don't want people to- It's weird for me. It's weird for me, though-... put those together... because everybody calls you- Yeah, because nobody has i- any idea who you are...
• 11:53
  everybody calls you Spinner, and it's so weird for me. My mom calls me Spinner. For sure. I've been Spinner since I was fucking 16.
• 11:57
  I've literally never heard it, and I still to this day laugh about the time that you and J- and Mike Knipper came to my house and had a picnic with, uh- Oh, yeah...
• 12:07
  a little kid you guys were hanging with and watching for the day, and my kids, and my daughter pooped down your neck. Yeah. [laughs] Really? I would pay for that these days. I was like- [laughs] That's not true.
• 12:20
  I'm sorry. [laughs] Yeah. But, no. Yeah, she was riding on my shoulders- He thinks it's so much fun he doesn't have to... and, and I was like- And she was in a diaper- I was like, "Oh."...
• 12:27
  she's gonna blow out pretty good. And I was like, "That was hot. What is that?" [laughs] And then I turn around, Jenny's like, "Oh my God! My daughter just shit on you." And, and you didn't smell it? It was behind me.
• 12:36
  [laughs] And it was a baby, you know? She was like a tot. Yeah, but that's usually the stinkiest stuff. They just kinda smell like that all the time. I don't know. Well, there's that. Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:43
  That was, I was like, "Well, I felt it." I was like, "Something's going on." [laughs] So I have a question about your podcast. Yes. So what is the focus, aim, mission, vi- Well, it's usually bicycles.
• 12:55
  We, we're tied in with a buddy of ours. The, the long story short for you is, um- I'm curious myself. I've been on this a lot. I'm excited. [laughs] Well, well you're the one, you're part of the reason it started.
• 13:04
  So we used to do... There was some other friends of ours that started a podcast out of, and it was called, it was called, uh, Fat Bike.com. Okay. And they had a podcast, and the guy who runs it- Daily dose of fat...
• 13:16
  yeah, the Daily Dose of Fat, and then there would, we, but we would occasionally call in. Yeah. And w- at first we were okay, but as eventually we became ourselves and got used to doing this. Mm-hmm.
• 13:27
  And all of a sudden we were pretty much cut out of every one of them, you know?
• 13:30
  It's like the last time, last time Gomez called me up and asked me to do one with him, he goes, "Hey, do you wanna come on and talk about the merits of a, a dropper post on a fat bike?"
• 13:39
  And I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me? Do you want me just to bash you guys for two hours or what?" [laughs] Because I ride a single speed and I don't have suspension on anything.
• 13:46
  And they know- Suspension or a drop post. Yeah. Yeah. Or a drop... Well, I do have one bike that's got a drop post because it, I'm trying to sell it, that's why it's still on there.
• 13:52
  [laughs] But, but it's like, so anyway, so, um, the guys that had it had a bit of a falling out, and then the guy that, that produces these and posts them for us, um, Go, um, Swen, out of, and they do one called Full Spectrum Cycling, and theirs is all about, it was pretty much based out of Milwaukee, River, River West area.
• 14:09
  Okay. Um, and, um, th- they, Greg has always liked the stuff we do. Ours are just like this, they're just drunk and shit talk mostly, you know? And they're, so they, and they- They try to be reasonable.
• 14:21
  They don't know- Yeah. I mean, we've done some, we've done some, like the last one we did where we were talking with Derek from Osage and their trails over there and stuff are pretty n- normal.
• 14:27
  But yeah, that's how we got started, and then Greg is like, "You should be doing this." And then you were borrowing the equipment, it was kind of a pain in the ass.
• 14:33
  And then, like, this is a little bit more, but I mean, the setup didn't cost me two grand. This is amazing, honestly. Yeah.
• 14:40
  I mean, and it, and it's like, and it's like, " pfh," I've, I've spent s- money on stupider shit, so I just started doing it. [laughs] You know, it's like, you wanna do it, you wanna start your own hockey program?
• 14:49
  I, I, I can give you a T-shirt that's got MHL on it. I have my own, I have my own local hockey- I, I, I wore that one the other day. Did you really? [laughs] Yeah.
• 14:57
  It's so, so I mean- And actually my, my mouth started bleeding... it's, it's $400. I, I kind of don't care. Like I, I did this to- It-... to piss off another guy who's doing the same thing. [doorbell rings] Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
• 15:05
  Real quick. So we need to, uh- Do we have an emergency? Hang on. I have mercy. As jackass as I am, I'm am somewhat responsible. Let's see what this is. Central Asia Camels. We have 2479 River Road, login please.
• 15:19
  Oh, never mind. If it's- Hey, Clark. Clark. [dog barks] I don't need to go. [dog barks] Um, but yeah, it, this is, uh, loosely about bikes. Okay. Beer. Yes. Hockey. Yes. Firefighting. Yes. And then whatever we do today.
• 15:36
  Okay. So I- [laughs] So there's nothing- I don't know. I'm, I'm just trying to text Shanna 'cause she's on her way here.
• 15:41
  Local- And, and unfortunately it was, mine was on speaker so everything we've just been talking about is on my phone. [dog barks] Okay, good. Oh, so she knows- Maybe she's here 'cause Clark is announcing...
• 15:49
  where the conversation's going. Yeah. [dog barks] But yeah. So yeah, we just talk about stuff. If somebody's- She wants to know if you wanna hang around and drink after we're done with this...
• 15:57
  sucker enough- Answer is yes. Okay. Is somebody sucker enough to listen to us? I'm from Wisconsin. [laughs] If I sh- if I could say one thing about myself, I'm from Wisconsin. High five. High five. Your hands are...
• 16:08
  That was a- Do you know that? I have big hands. I can palm basketballs. Dang. Yeah. That's like a, that's like a bear paw. [laughs] Like how big? Well, so- How- Where in Wisconsin are you from originally? Eau Claire.
• 16:22
  Eau Claire. Do you want to- Tripple waffles. Can I, can I tell Chewy something? What's the lake, Haley? Yeah. That he doesn't know? Is the lake Haley? What's the lake? Lake Haley? In Chippewa. Yeah.
• 16:31
  Well, I'm from Eau Claire, and so I lived Oak Lake area, and so we used to- If you go to college and you can't get in anywhere- It was Oak Lake... you just go to Eau Claire and you can get in there. Oh my goodness.
• 16:39
  [laughs] You haven't heard that? No. Is that a thing? That's a thing. I used- If you can't get in there, go to Eau Claire. That's the kind of idea. So I grew up in a little town outside called Altoona or Elk Lake.
• 16:48
  Altoona. Altoona, the railroaders. Is that a hot tuna? But my, my da- no. Hot tuna Altoona? My dad is the guy that wrote the Menards jingle. > Seriously?
• 16:58
  > We're like, we're like- > There's more than just- So- > Yeah.
• 17:07
  The savings will always come right back to you. >> Yeah. Oh my God. So my dad, Bob Holton, who, uh, along with my mother, Colleen Holton, owned the radio station here in Decorah, KDEC, uh, AM and FM.
• 17:19
  Darren Swenson and all the friends, right? So that's, that's how- Hi, Darren Swenson. Right, and they bought that station in 1996.
• 17:26
  They moved here, my brother went to school here, and that's how I ended up here from moving here from LA was to work with my folks after 9/11, and we had kids and there was just a whole change.
• 17:35
  There was a shift in the world, right? And my folks said, "Well, why don't you get out of LA and come here and w- you know, work with the, the station?"
• 17:43
  And so I did, and I ended up doing it for 19 years, and I r- I really loved working in broadcasting. I grew up in it. My dad's been in it since 1966.
• 17:53
  So, uh, so my folks- Well, you're, you're cr- you can tell because you're- You have... incredibly comfortable- Yeah... with a mic. Oh, I love microphones. Yeah. Oh, give me a microphone- You were still-...
• 18:00
  and I will talk it... you were, you were a twinkle in your dad's eye. I was a twinkle. [laughs] And then I'll tell you what, my, my...
• 18:05
  John Menard came to my dad, um, when they only had three sta- they only had three, um, [smacks lips] Menard stores at the time. Oh my God. And yeah. That'd be a while ago. It was nothing.
• 18:15
  It was like not a, it was not what it is now. And he just said, "Hey, I've, I've got this music. I need someone that can write, like, lyrics and a song to go with this, with this background of music, and will you do it?"
• 18:27
  My dad said yes. My dad, you know, he's from southern Minnesota. He's a nice f- he was a farm kid. What, what town in Minnesota? Uh- Outside of Hayfield, which is already tiny- I know Hayfield... called- Yeah...
• 18:37
  Oslo Oslo? My dad's from Oslo. That's where, that's where they, that's where they sell- Tiegen's General Store- Yes, and then, and then there's a- The lutefisk...
• 18:44
  there's, yeah, there's a lu- there's a, there's a goddamn bathtub with lutefisk in it So it's the place that sells the most- In the hardware store? Yes... yes. Yeah It, they sell... It's gone now. Oh, I didn't realize.
• 18:52
  It's not there anymore. But it used to sell- That wouldn't keep them open?... the most lutefisk of any place in the United States. Oh, I wouldn't doubt it. I mean, this is- Every year for Christmas, Chewie.
• 18:59
  Oh, you're a, you're a southern Minnesota guy. Yeah. My folks, my mom's from Hayfield, my dad's from... They both went to Hayfield High. Okay. So my, um, our Christmases are at the senior center in Hayfield, Minnesota.
• 19:10
  I've been there. And if you walk in at Christmas, you know that the Hultin family has been there 'cause it's, it reeks of lutefisk. [laughs] Oh, yeah. It's, it's like dead fish. It's horrible. It is dead fish. Oh.
• 19:21
  It's dead fish in lye. This is so lutefisk. Yeah. I mean, it's the food of my people. I know how this works. I savor your aroma. The only reason that they have that, everybody just like, "It's a delicacy."
• 19:29
  It's like, no, it wasn't. We put it in the boats and we- Yeah... dunked it in lye 'cause, so it wouldn't go bad in three months. Right. That's what you do. Exactly.
• 19:36
  So that was the only food that you had, so like- And then you raise it... it wasn't because it was good- It's not like-... it was because it would last... it, they, they put it in the bathtub.
• 19:41
  It's not like they, they take it out at the end of the night and put it in the refrigerator. I mean, it just- No... sits in the bathtub. Well- It sits in the lye. Yeah...
• 19:46
  and we have the, the lutefisk eating contest at Nortefest. Oh, yes. Which is barely, it was just a bowl of butter with that shit in it. [laughs] But do you know what the worst- Really? You know- Oh, yeah. I do remember.
• 19:55
  I remember... do you know what the worst thing about that is? What? Um, it's not the eating of the lutefisk. For those of us that have that as our background, that is part of what we do.
• 20:02
  You're not gonna tell me about what happens later, are you? [laughs] No, it's that when you finish at the- After it's in you. At... No. [laughs] No, but I do have a story about that with my daughter, Sophie. Nope.
• 20:11
  Poor girl. Nope. Nope. But I'll tell you this. They, they put the bowl in your hand, and it's a contest, right? Darren starts it off, and everybody chucks that, uh, lutefisk down their gullet. They just like... Chug it.
• 20:23
  They got it, right? And then they, to show that they ate it all, they have to put that freaking bowl- On their head... on their head without it- No.
• 20:30
  [laughs] Yes, Chewie, you get- [laughs] You understand that the thing is not- And it's like the first night... to eat the lutefisk... is that on Thursday?...
• 20:37
  it's that you put it on your head, and now the re- you walk around nude smelling like lutefisk. And then we gotta go to the bar smelling like lutefisk. No, Nortefest the rest of the evening.
• 20:42
  [laughs] Like, there's a dead fish smell, and then there's lutefisk. Well, I was- It's not good... I was gonna ask- Nobody wins...
• 20:47
  I was gonna ask you, there's, you have to know what it smell like because if the wind blew the wrong, was blowing to the f- out of the east, you could smell it in Albert Lea. [laughs] Yeah, that's true.
• 20:57
  I'm pretty sure you could smell us in Albert Lea just having Christmas- Yeah... in Hayfield. That's where- But we're- Yeah... you know, that's where I grew up. Or I wrestled for Albert Lea. I didn't grow up there.
• 21:03
  Oh, you were south of there. Glenville. Yeah. But we lost our wrestling team 'cause we didn't have enough people, so then we wrestled for Albert Lea. Oh, man.
• 21:09
  Which then, then we started wrestling with Rochester, all the fucking Rochester teams, East, West, Mayo. Yeah. Uh- Well, you're in the big nine... the red one, the purple one. The red- Lourdes?... and the purple?
• 21:19
  Uh, who's the red one? Oh, Red Wing. That's Red Wing. No. Who's the red team in Rochester? Oh, that's John Marshall. John Marshall, and then there's a blue one or- Uh, Century, but Century would've been- Century's new...
• 21:27
  Century would've been there. So you would've m- you must've wrestled- No, I, Century was there when I was there. He's young. Th- there's a green one. He's very, he's very young. A red one. Uh, oh, yeah. Would've been.
• 21:36
  Yeah. No, Mayo's green. Mayo's green. Century's blue. Marshall's red. But the purple one is, the purple one is- John Marshall... pur- purple one's Lourdes. Lourdes, yeah. You would've, you probably would've...
• 21:44
  I, see, I think you, I don't think Lourdes, I don't think you would've wrestled Lourdes. I think we wrestled, we were, so we were Class B, which was, there's A, double-A, and triple-A. Yep.
• 21:51
  And then there's the tiny-ass schools that are B. [laughs] Oh, okay. Yeah. So we went from B to triple-A.
• 21:55
  Well, Lourdes was probably an A, maybe a double-A, 'cause they're a little bit bigger, but they're not that big a school. Yeah.
• 22:00
  And then we started wrestling Owatonna, Apple Valley, uh- Did you guys get to wrestle Owatonna?... Winona East and Winona West. Yeah. Win- Winona- Mankato... back then, Winona was kind of a factory, weren't they? Yeah.
• 22:09
  Well, Owatonna, we had a lot of state champs. They had a lot- Yeah... of tough guys. Yes, I mean, they were... Well, was Chatfield, uh- We still beat them. Albert Lea beat them that year.
• 22:17
  Was Chatfield a, uh, force back then? Uh, Chatfield was DUL, so they were- Okay... smaller. Okay. Yeah. And Stewartville, too. Yep. Yeah. Well, Chatfield, I mean, for, for a time, um- Weasleys...
• 22:29
  all the good wrestlers- They were cupcakes or something... out of Rochester would move to Chatfield and, and play, and wrestle down there. Oh, they'd wrestle? Oh, yeah, yeah. It was a thing.
• 22:34
  By the way, you guys are ta- I'm having a moment watching you two go back and forth. As a child that grew up in Wisconsin, going to Minnesota, there was like a magic around it, right?
• 22:43
  We would go to the farm or we would visit my grandparents in town, and they would tell stories about towns. [laughs] Like, like, like Manorville, Wan- Oh, yeah. Casamingo... Wanamingo, Casson. Kenyon-Wanamingo. Oh, my.
• 22:56
  Kenyon. And I would hear, and they sounded like magical places. It was like, it was like saying I went to Paris. Names? Yeah. And then when you go there- I mean-...
• 23:02
  then when you get there, it's like, "What a fucking dump." Yeah. [laughs] Well- Then you're like, "Albert Lea," and we're like, "Oh, I remember them talking about Albert Lea."
• 23:08
  Albert Lea is like an actually English name- Right... and Austin, too. But yeah, so. Yeah.
• 23:11
  But I, I always wanna do this thing when I meet somebody, and you give them Wisconsin town names and like, "Oh, do you know- Oh, they'll never say it.
• 23:18
  Do you know- Oconomowoc or- Yeah, that's- That's never gonna happen... oh, my God, you just ruined my thing. I was gonna- Oh... lead into this. Really? What's a Wisconsin town- [laughs]... that every other letter is O?
• 23:26
  Oconomowoc. [laughs] I win already. O-C, O-F- Here, I told you I was good at trivia... O-F-O-C. Yeah. You don't even have to ask me the question. I already know the answer. Oconomowoc. Just ask me. [laughs] God. Yeah.
• 23:37
  You guys, this is good. I... Wait. [bell dings] Oh, yeah. Change the subject bell. Oh. Why'd you just get this all figured out? I just, I, I just wanted to ring the bell. I thought that was a beer request or something.
• 23:44
  No, no, it's- How did you guys- I thought that was a beer request... yeah, so here's my... No, no, no. Here's the change the subject. How did you guys get into biking? Um, differently, I'm sure.
• 23:54
  I, mine was I'd started out commuter biking. Oh. Our first OWIs, and we couldn't drive anymore- [laughs]... so we needed to get around. [laughs] No, I, I, I rode bicy- Honestly, sounds tasteful...
• 24:03
  I rode bicycle rain, snow to, to work all the time. But, but, so it was probably like- In Rochester? Yeah, so, and I, but my, so to get- 'Cause you grew up in Rochester. Yeah, I grew up in Rochester. Okay.
• 24:11
  And I, and I lived there. You were in Rochester for years, and you're like, "Fuck this shit. Decorah smells nice."
• 24:15
  Well, okay, here, little bit d- little bit different, though, but, so when mount biking first started in the '80s- Yeah... I had an old Mongoose. Okay. And I went to my first bike race, and it was in Winona.
• 24:24
  And I met Deke- Oh, yeah... and Howard Shear, the guys from Des Moines, and then they literally rebuilt my bike for me so I could race, and I got into racing.
• 24:32
  Well, back then it was so small that it turned into you're gonna run a race, you're gonna run a race, and then Deke and I became friends, and I was coming down here all the time and- I mean, the trail system was nothing, and now it's huge because they, those guys have worked hard and- Really hard...
• 24:42
  there was people that thought I lived down here. I mean, that's, that's how I got into it. It, my biking just kept growing, and then we did RAGBRAI, and I wasn't even a road bike rider- [clears throat]...
• 24:49
  until I did RAGBRAI with those guys and... But you were, were you guys, did you, when you were wrestling at Luther- Yeah... is that when you started riding bike?
• 24:56
  'Cause they were kinda making you guys ride bikes, but I don't remember if it was when you were there or not.
• 25:00
  They weren't necessarily making us ride bikes, but, like, big part of wrestling is cutting weight, so you need to, like, run. You need to do something. You need to lose weight. Keep it trim. So you need to be active.
• 25:07
  Yep. So, like, um, O'Gara was my coach, [smacks lips] and he, uh, he rode bike a lot. And we have, like, this, just the area here with the trails. That's how you, that's how you get out there.
• 25:18
  [smacks lips] And I, I mean, I remember I bought my first, uh, Trek 1800 maybe from Ward when Ward still- When Ward was in town, yep Oh, yeah. Okay Yeah... owned, owned Decorah Bikes.
• 25:28
  Um, and then I started getting into it there. And then, like, once wrestling ended, I needed, I still need to be some sort of aggressive sport, you know? So that's, uh, where I started biking the most.
• 25:41
  And then it was like trail building. Um, I just like being in the woods, just getting an excuse to go out there and be in the woods, either building trails or riding the trails. So that's how I got into it.
• 25:51
  Well, do you wanna know how I- Probably back in, like, '03... do you wanna know how we m- Or four... you wanna know how I met him? Please, yes. We were, we were at...
• 25:56
  I, I think I knew of him, but I didn't know him, and this was your- He is kind of legendary The legend precedes me. Yeah. [laughs] When this was, this was- I, I also knew of him before I met him. Yeah. Well, this is- Oh.
• 26:04
  [laughs] Yeah. Well, yours is probably different than mine, I hope. [laughs] Anyway, um- You both have seen my wiener. No, I'm kidding. [laughs] I have not. [laughs] Not yet. So I definitely, I was- Oh, wait.
• 26:17
  Wait, wait... we were both standing on the front porch naked this morning. Yeah. Yeah. I take, I take that back. Oh. I once saw you publicly urinate. It is true, I have. [laughs] Oh, yeah. That's a good story, too.
• 26:25
  Yeah, yeah. In the days of the 18 speed. Okay, tell me. So how I met him was we were at O'Gara's. There was a bonfire. Yeah. [laughs] And it, and, and, and I- Weirdos... had not met Jesse.
• 26:34
  They just, alls I knew is he just lived up the street, and he was coming down. And when he got down there, the first thing he did is proceeded to strong arm everybody and knocked us all out our chairs. Stop it.
• 26:42
  He, no, 'cause he was, he was getting ready for an MMA, MMA fight. That doesn't surprise me. Oh. No. Yeah. Oh, did you go to my f- uh, first cage fight, I think? Yes. Oh, yeah. You were up there.
• 26:50
  Yeah, so, but the thing was is that you were pra- you were just like, alls you just g- put his arm like this and just went down and knocked all of us off our chairs. [laughs] And I'm going, "Oh, this is Jesse."
• 26:58
  [laughs] And, and Deke, as he's laying on the ground, goes, "This is a guy you wanna keep on your side." [laughs] Make him, make him your friend. [laughs] Yeah. So. Oh, that's right. Yeah.
• 27:07
  We had the, the fight out at the roller skating rink. Yep, at the roller skating rink, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think- Did you, did you do- Three fights that night... it was three. I was gonna- Yeah...
• 27:13
  couldn't remember how many it was. Yeah, three. Did you win? Yeah. I, I had d- I didn't go, but it sounds like- Yeah... you would. [laughs] It was hilarious, yeah. Yeah.
• 27:21
  I remember, like, the first one is this, like, I beat the fuck out of that fat guy.
• 27:24
  And then the second one was act- actually, like, a fighter, and I remember I had my fists up, and he punched me in my nose when I had both my hands in front of my face. [laughs] And I was like, "Okay, time to wrestle."
• 27:36
  [laughs] And the third guy was actually a wrestler, and, like, I tried kicking and stuff, and he kicked, and then I don't know. I can't... Just, like, I, I was a better wrestler. I was not a great fighter back then.
• 27:46
  [laughs] Have you learned since then? Did you do it very long? Um, I did, but it, back in the... So we're talking early 2000s, where it was still a dirt ball sport. Yeah. Yeah. Like, the referee- It was dirty...
• 27:57
  had, like, work boots that he definitely wore to work that day and jeans. [laughs] And he just took off his T-shirt and put on a referee shirt. [laughs] Yeah. And, uh, it was like...
• 28:06
  You know, I remember, that other guy, I was punching him in the head. He was on the ground, and I looked at a referee, and I'm like, "Is this it? He's not..." I'm like, "Hey, he's not defending." And the guy's like...
• 28:15
  I'm like, "You okay?" And he goes, "Uh." And I like punched him again. He's like, "Okay, I'm done." [laughs] I'm like, "Okay." Like, the referee was, if you are not emotionally stable, that would be a- You're done...
• 28:24
  bad spot to be in. Oh. Like, it was... [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. So then, and then we've been, and then we've traveled all over the United States mountain biking together. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:34
  It's- Honestly, I like that when the... So when I first moved to w- well, actually, when I first met [smacks lips] um, my ex, uh, we would actually do a lot of races, running. Oh, okay.
• 28:46
  So we did a lot of run- And so that became a thing here in Decorah, where you started, like, meeting up- Oh, yeah... with different people. So it was a different- Oh... group of people, but we used to...
• 28:54
  You know, we was... It was fun to, like- We did the, like, um, what's the one in Colorado where we ran over the mountains? Oh. It was the Get Your- We stayed in Steamboat Springs. Were you in that one? Yeah. Oh my God.
• 29:02
  I'm sorry. I didn't remember. I- Oh. Aw. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. It was the Get Your Ass Across the Pass- Yeah. I think Marcus put me in that... from Steamboat. Yeah, Marcus. Steamboat Springs to Colorado.
• 29:12
  No, Fort Collins. We ended in Steamboat. Fort Collins- We ended in Steamboat... to Steamboat Springs. Yeah. It was, like, two h- you went over the, the- It's a m-... Continental Divide...
• 29:19
  amazing house or Airbnb or whatever it was. David ran, yeah. Yeah. And I, I think I was the driver for that one. Okay. Yeah, you weren't running, but you said- No... you wanted to run maybe.
• 29:27
  'Cause, well, I started having injuries, and now I've totally busted up my knee, so I can't run at all. But it was like- Which is really sad, but that's life...
• 29:32
  it was there six or 12 people, and, like, you would take a three- It was six people. Mark-... mile... Mark Jensen ran. Yep. I got Mark Jensen to go 'cause he was a wrestler. Yeah. And it was, uh... You ran...
• 29:42
  It's like s- uh- It's a relay... like Ragnar in Minnesota, where it's like you get- Oh... you run three legs, and it's like three to six miles. Sure. And then you hand off. Except it was the up- Up and down 24 hours...
• 29:53
  and down. How, what w- The Continental Divide... what, what was your altitude that you went up to? I don't know. Fucking high. I don't know. I, well- Over- Uh, just- What's the tree line? I don't know where it is...
• 30:01
  just tell us the route that you used. Just, just outta curio- just outta curiosity 'cause when we did SingleSpeed USA- That explains a lot... it was in, it was in Boulder.
• 30:07
  We went up, we went up into the mountains more, and we went up, I think we went up to 10,000, up over in 10,000. Were you riding or driving? Yeah, riding, and it was horrible. Yeah.
• 30:14
  I mean, like, like, I, I- I saw a movie... probably been at, like, 8,500. What's Colorado Springs up? You know, Colorado Springs, riding around there, it's not quite as high, but we got up those mountains.
• 30:22
  It's like I can't... So I can't imagine running. Oh. I mean, hi- It was insane... bicycling is horrible as b- it was. Running has to be insane. Oh, it- It was insane.
• 30:30
  Do you remember Mark Jensen- They're mostly athletes... running downhill as we ran it? Mark Jensen ran down a hill, so... And all I could think the whole time was, "That guy's knees are never gonna be the same."
• 30:41
  [laughs] Yeah. It's just like jree. I m- I did an uphill on a gravel that was pretty windy. [laughs] And I remember seeing a moose. You did? Um, off to the left, like, at the back of a...
• 30:53
  It wasn't a field, but it was like this clearing. Um- No, but we had a great time, and then we went to the bar afterwards. Why don't I remember any of this? I don't know if you went to the bar. Oh, that sounds like me.
• 31:04
  [laughs] Okay. At the time, I was tired. I'm trying to think who else was, everybody, uh, was there. But, um, there was a hot tub, and we... I remember going to this bar- At the-... and it was like, an
• 31:15
  like what I imagined Vail to be. Like, there was hot chicks in there, but they were super hot and super rich. [laughs] And I was in th- in this fancy fucking bar with no sleeves on.
• 31:26
  [laughs] And so I was like, um, trying to hit on these chicks, and they're like, "Eh." [laughs] They weren't, they weren't interested in slumming it for the night? I, I guess.
• 31:34
  I was like, yeah, I should have maybe put myself in that category. Yeah. I was gonna say, I think it's just about the right approach.
• 31:39
  Now, I used to work in sales, Jesse, and if you want me to help you, I can tell you how to like- These guns on the side. [laughs] Could you please- You wanna buy these guns? [laughs] He- Yeah.
• 31:48
  Uh, no, but the other one, Marcus, who was- We're not going, we're not going through his track record right now because we don't have that kind of time. Yeah, yeah. Well, that- So but, you know, Marcus was-...
• 31:54
  that would be a 24 size How tall is Marcus? Six foot something. He's tall as- So Marcus, Marcus used to be my co-host on the radio show when we first flipped the station to Triple A back in like 2006 or five. Yeah.
• 32:05
  I don't remember when it was. But he's an athlete. Marcus, uh, went to... He was a basketball player at Luther before he- Could easily dunk. Probably doesn't even need a jump. Really? Yeah.
• 32:13
  Oh, yeah, and then he, uh, transferred to Concordia. But he, um, he, uh, he was probably 6'7". He's super tall.
• 32:23
  Do you know, funny story about Marcus is you know what an athlete he was, and he got me back into running, 'cause David and I used to run a lot, and then I, you know, during kids and all that stuff, kinda got out of it.
• 32:32
  Sure. And he was the one who was like, "Let- just do it." And I was like, "Yeah, but everyone's gonna be looking at me." Oh. Like when I run past the- Nobody cares...
• 32:39
  I'm gonna run past the Whippy Dip, and here's what Marcus said, "Yeah, you're gonna run past the Whippy Dip working on your health, and they're eating ice cream. Run past them- They're putting sugar in their fat...
• 32:50
  and just..." [laughs] Fucking asshole. [laughs] When the- You know?
• 32:52
  When we were, we were w- my senior year of high school playing football, we would jog from my house, the, all of us line- well, four of us linemen would jog from my house down to the,
• 33:02
  uh, it was called the Beltline Tavern. We'd have a couple pitchers of beer and a ham sandwich then run back. You did not. Yes. [laughs] Oh, my gosh. That's the way to do it. That sounds like a Spinner team right there.
• 33:12
  Yeah. That's really funny. Well, that's what kind of Luther wrestling was, was. I mean, we drank a lot, but we worked our butt really hard. This, this is my high school team. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, I was gonna say.
• 33:20
  [laughs] I do think that- I wasn't born yet. [laughs] It is a different time era- You were... d- place 'cause I... Yeah, you, 'cause you're the baby. But like I didn't- Like you're much, not much better. I'm 50.
• 33:31
  You're not. I am, too, but thank you. Aw. [laughs] Aw. This is, this is how you make points. Thank you. Pay attention. Yeah. Do you, do you want a notepad, Spinner? See, this is how Spinner gets it.
• 33:41
  Oh, yeah, there you go. [laughs] I was like, I love that I haven't showered. I haven't combed my hair. I did brush my teeth, so thank you for that. Hey, I said you're a step ahead of me. I haven't done that yet today.
• 33:49
  I did brush my teeth. I do that a lot 'cause I get weird, stuff gets caught in my teeth. I hate it. So- Is that a... [laughs] Sounds like a personal problem. "Well, hey, at least I got to brush." Well, yeah.
• 33:59
  Well, I was too busy this morning. I had people here. You had people here. [laughs] Why? I didn't wake up and like- Yeah... where the fuck am I? [laughs] What the goddamn fuck is that noise?
• 34:06
  Well, I- And I see, I see this old man over there- [laughs]... playing with some pants in the corner, and I'm like laying on the couch. And I look over, I'm like, "Oh, shit. Are those my pants?
• 34:15
  Is my phone, my alarms going off in my pocket," and Chewy's trying to shut it off. [laughs] I thought it was a phone call coming in. You didn't know I was here. [laughs] I was, yeah.
• 34:21
  I, I do remember you laying down for the, like not laying down. I'm sleeping here, and you just fucking dove into the couch. I don't remember that. And then I went to bed, and then I, and then I don't know why I got up.
• 34:30
  The dogs or so- well, I, I was yell- [laughs]... thinking that he had got, he had taken a nap and got up and left, right?
• 34:35
  I didn't think he was even here anymore, so I'm yelling at the dogs, says, "Hank's, Hank's doing his barking thing like he's been doing here," because Clark blocks him and doesn't let him go. Yeah.
• 34:42
  So anyway, so he's barking and, and then the phone rings, and then it rings again. I get up, and I go up there, and it's like Lisa Spin- Spinner went... 'Cause I looked under the couch, and all I saw was a blanket.
• 34:51
  I didn't see a body. I just sucked in. And I'm like, what the hell? Did he, did he like ride home in whatever he had under, these pants? Well, he's out riding the trails- [laughs]...
• 34:58
  so if he had like cyc- cycling shorts on, no big deal. And then all of a sudden, it goes, and it quits, and it goes off again.
• 35:04
  And I get up, and now, and now I've, like I hung him up on the chair, and, and I see, uh, uh, Purchase here dropping off Hannah's bike.
• 35:11
  And so I get up and go out there, and here comes Spinner like- So Chewy walks out in his underwear, and then- [laughs]... 20 seconds later, I walk out in my underwear. [laughs] I mean, was it awkward?
• 35:20
  I mean, I mean, and, you know, Washington's not a quiet street. He's like, "Oh." It's basically shit out here. "Road eight?" [laughs] Oh, my gosh, you guys did the walk of shame together out of Chewy's house.
• 35:28
  I, I did the ride of shame back to my house this morning. I will be honest. It actually makes so much more sense. So I had a show in Baraboo, Wisconsin last night.
• 35:36
  My oldest daughter, Lillian, and I drove back, and we stopped at a bar in Baraboo first, and we chatted with a friend, and then we, uh, headed home.
• 35:44
  So by the time I got her home and then came back to the, uh, place that I'm renting from you, which is... I have to be clear. It's, it's on the downstairs. Right, yeah. So it's on the main floor, right?
• 35:53
  Man, it's fucking awesome. It is awesome. It is fucking- I love it. I like it. I love it. I, I've used it, too. It's very nice. I love it. Yeah, you have stayed there.
• 35:58
  [laughs] I'm, I'm, I feel like I've heard that a lot of people have stayed there, but right now I'm renting it for two more weeks. Everybody stay out. It's at your service. But I will, but I will tell you this.
• 36:06
  It explains a lot, Jesse- Yeah?... about I thought you were home.
• 36:10
  When I'm going to sleep at 3:00 AM, I assume you're upstairs sound asleep, and all I hear this morning at some point as I wake up to go to the bathroom...
• 36:18
  Now, I went to bed at 3:00, so when I woke up to go to the bathroom and, and all I hear is noises upstairs of Jesse that are sort of strange. [laughs] And I've never heard those noises upstairs.
• 36:30
  I don't, I don't know what's happening, but now that I know that he had kind of a late night with you- Ah... it might explain some of... I just heard sort of this. Well, it was not so- This is what I heard, Chewy. Uh.
• 36:42
  [laughs] Well, it wasn't supposed to be a late night. Uh. It was, it was Trina called up. Trina called me and said, "Hey, I'm at The Marquee. You should come down for a beer."
• 36:50
  And I'm like, "Okay," 'cause I wanted to talk to her, 'cause we were supposed to be either going to buy him a cargo bike today or moving his kid to UNI. Okay. Right? Oh, yeah. So I get down there.
• 36:58
  He goes, "Nope, it's all off. We're not doing any of that." Well, I get down there, and it's Spinner and, and Captain- Captain, Gunner, Pete-... Gunner, yeah... Myers. The F- the- Mike Bachman... Bachmans.
• 37:07
  [dog barks] Oh, fuck. I got him. Leave him alone. Um, and, and all these people there, and it- [dog barks] and, and it's, and it's not bad for a while.
• 37:17
  We're just kinda having a couple beers, and then all of a sudden everybody leaves, so we go, "Well, let's have a beer" [dog barks] and we sat at the bar.
• 37:23
  And then Chris the bartender starts giving us shots of whiskey, [dog barks] so it turned into a long night. Yeah. A- and not in a good way. Well, it sounds like you guys did what you needed to do. Yeah.
• 37:31
  And I'm going to do- We did... what I need to do. [bell dings] Bathroom break. [laughs] Okay. [laughs] I'll find it. [laughs] All right. It's tough. R- a hard right and then- Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's a lot of...
• 37:44
  Yeah, a lot of crying this morning, just with the- Well, it was- I, I put the post on- Well, and, and-... for Jerry...
• 37:48
  and, and, so everybody needs to understand this is that he has not passed yet, but he is at a hospice. He's at a end-of-life hospice. Yes. Right. So- So it's-... they c- Yeah...
• 37:56
  it's basically, they didn't come out and say it, but he's basically brain dead. Yeah. So even if his- And, and, and-...
• 38:01
  he keeps on living, he's- And I, and I want assuming, I'm not, I'm, uh, we're not gonna get into it a whole lot right now just for the fact that he hasn't passed yet, and also for the fact that I, you know, Greg knows him too, and their podcast comes out before this one will.
• 38:12
  So there might be more information on that. So for anybody that's listening, uh, you know, the, this is, this is, [dog barks] this is where we're at with it right now anyway. Yeah.
• 38:19
  And may- maybe, so Greg please put the, uh, CaringBridge [dog barks] and the GoFundMe [dog barks] in the, uh, show notes. Yes. Oh, yeah. [dog barks] Um, it's on our Facebook page and all that stuff, so...
• 38:30
  You guys take care of him? I'll, I'll just, I'll monologue it for a while. I'll monologue this. I'll, I'll talk about myself.
• 38:34
  [dog barks] So Jim is in the bathroom, and Chewy's gotta take care of his dog Clark, who is kind of a dick. Um, Chewy is a corgi enthusiast. Uh, he's got Millie and Clark here.
• 38:51
  Both rescues, both pretty good dogs, but Clark just needs to run the show. And, um, Chewy's dog that stays here all the time is Hank, um, who was supposed to be my dog actually. Oh, wow.
• 39:01
  He adopted Hank to give him to me, and decided that he couldn't give up the rescue, and that's how I got Vivian. So if you follow me on Instagram, my name is SpinnerVivian because Vivian has been a great dog.
• 39:14
  She's almost 15 years old now. Viv is a sweet old girl. She's a sweetie. Yes. Um, but- She's like the Jenny of dogs. The Jenny of dogs. [laughs] She's the Jenny of dogs. She's sweet- Yeah... and she's a little noisy.
• 39:28
  But she- And I don't usually, I actually, I don't ride bike that much anymore, just because she doesn't like to follow the bike. Like when I first got Holly- You used to take her on the back of your bike, didn't you?
• 39:38
  Yeah, she used to- I saw... surf back there on my big fat tummy. I saw some pictures of that. Yeah. And, um, there she is. Oh, she knows we're talking about her. Yeah. She's coming in right here.
• 39:46
  She, uh, Viv and I were just in the bathroom together. D- we were having a, we were having a private moment. A girls' day. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little... You know, girls do that. We go to the bathroom together. Yeah.
• 39:53
  We like to hang out and have conversations, so we talked about you two. Yeah. Oh. And, uh- Well, I, when I first-...
• 39:58
  when I moved to Madison the first time- That explains why Millie, that explains why Millie's in the bathroom with me every time I go to the bathroom...
• 40:02
  when I, [laughs] When I moved to Madison the first time, and that's when I got Holly, and uh, I would be riding a trail and come around a corner, and Vivian would stay in the corner until Holly caught up. Oh.
• 40:13
  And Vivian would make sure Holly was in between us. That's- So that's like a mountain cur trait. She's a, she's a great little teacher. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I'm gonna do this now. My turn.
• 40:21
  [bell dings] So you might be bored with this, but it's time to do some t- we, 'cause this is supposed to be about, about cycling. Yeah. Talk. Do it.
• 40:27
  So we're, we're, we're- That's why I was asking you questions earlier... No, we're not. We're sticking to the rules today. Yeah. Okay.
• 40:30
  I don't know what the bell- I asked you guys how you got- I don't even know what the bell means. I asked you guys how you got into cycling- It means, it means something Brittany started that...
• 40:34
  'cause I was trying to turn it towards cycling. Yeah. Okay. Well, I w- I w- what I think we need to get into, because it's a hot topic here in Decorah is- Oh, I know... horses on the trail. Horses on the trail. Oh.
• 40:44
  Well, two things on the trail. A- Horses. I want to- This, this year's been horrible because grass is growing so fast that keeping them up has been next to impossible. I mean- And your new job- Yeah...
• 40:53
  a- and your retiree status- Yeah... is that you are a trail maintenance man. I, and, and by the way, never retire. Never retire. If you, you can't believe how busy you are. You're your own boss. Yeah.
• 41:01
  How- Well, that's good to know because my grandfather Holton from Oslo, Minnesota used to say that the worst thing about retiring is you never have a day off. Exactly. [laughs] It's ridiculous.
• 41:12
  I mean, everybody, well- Everybody wants you for something. A- a- well, I've had, I've had more- Everybody wants me... I've had more job offers down here, "Cave, can you come and help me with this?
• 41:19
  Hey," you know, and it's like, well, I can't do five things at once. That's how I got my truck down in Indiana. Hey, Chewy, I'm gonna be- I was like, "Chewy, you're retired. Can you come help me do this?"
• 41:25
  He's like, "Uh, I'm kind of busy." I'm gonna be moving to Omaha. I'm fucking retired. [laughs] I'm gonna be moving to Omaha. What are you doing in two weeks? [laughs] You wanna go to Omaha? Bring the camper?
• 41:33
  Well, so, okay, yeah. Oh, we can do that. Let's go. Yeah. Let's go. Well, here's... Okay, we're moving you to, we're moving you to Omaha. Okay. But that's after you live here for two weeks. Okay. [laughs] Okay.
• 41:41
  'Cause you have curtains to wash. I have washing curtains. [laughs] Oh, it's a long story. Yeah, that's a... Uh- Okay, so tell me about the horses- I didn't even know that was a thing... on the trail.
• 41:47
  Okay, so- Because I understand why that could be problematic. Well, so long story is, is this has been going on for, since I've been coming down here for 30 years. There's always been- Where the trails have been shared?
• 41:56
  Well, no. Oh. There, the horses had the trails originally, and then mountain biking came into being. Okay. And we built trails not where the horses rode. So- And the ho- and the horses-...
• 42:05
  at that time there was probably five miles of trails in Vampeana. Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. No, he, I make him wa- talk across to it. Oh. 'Cause otherwise he gets away. Sometimes I breathe. My, I have a breather.
• 42:13
  Yeah, he- You have a breather? Yeah, he is. [breathes heavily] Yeah, Darth Vader. [breathes heavily] So I, I even tried to, I even tried a, uh- A guard? Yeah, and that didn't even make a difference. Wind guard? I suck.
• 42:23
  Yeah. But anyways. Well, it's, it, it doesn't work on that. I need a different one really.
• 42:25
  But back in the day when we started, when we founded Decorah Human Powered Trails back in 2003, there's maybe five miles of trail in Decorah. Okay. Mm-hmm. And some of the basic stuff horses could ride.
• 42:37
  And we started building stuff. We're human powered trails. Oh, and we- We can't build for that thousand-pound animal. No, and we built trails to stay away from the horses. Yeah. And so they're not trails...
• 42:47
  They're, they- Yeah... may crisscross the horse trails, but they're not tied into the horse trails. Yeah. So- But people didn't know the difference and started using them? No, they did. No. They don't care. Okay.
• 42:56
  They are saying- Yeah... I could ride... It says no horses, and they say, "I can ride that anyway." Yeah. Which w- we would do anywhere else probably. Um, was it e- Is it- So-... kind of an equivalent...
• 43:06
  I'm trying to understand from my own, 'cause you guys know that I, uh, biking is not something I, I don't even own a bike. I have in the past. But- I'll give you one...
• 43:14
  in cross country- I got another one People don't like it when folks are walking or running on a cross-country trail- Same idea as Jess. Yeah... because it messes up the trail- Exactly. Yeah...
• 43:22
  and it makes it difficult to do what you're trying to do. And, and- Right... m- and 90% of our trails were built by hand. Okay. So any showing that we did or any benching we did was done by hand, so it's, it's,
• 43:32
  it's not hard packed. We didn't dig a trail into the side of the hill. We just- Yeah... we brought, we brought the trail out from the hill, basically. Okay. So when the horses ride on it, they really do, um, you know...
• 43:42
  And, uh, so two years ago we had trouble, like Doug and I were out there every day patching, and we found out it was a kid, and he didn't know.
• 43:50
  So I kind of can let that one go, 'cause once we found the kid and told him what was going on, he was, he was apologetic and never- Kind... and never did it again. Yeah. Makes sense. Right? I mean, that was fine.
• 44:00
  This is people that know they're not supposed to be out there. And so they've been going to the Park Department and they've been bitching they want more trails to ride on. Why can't we ride on these?
• 44:08
  Why can't we ride on these? Have they thought about creating trails themselves, like Decorah Human Powered Trails has done? Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
• 44:13
  I, w- um, years ago I was on, when Minnesota started this thing, it was Minnesota Parks and Trail System, and it was, it was a, it was an umbrella group with all the groups to try to write grants, federal grants for money, right?
• 44:24
  Yeah. And the horse people came there, and they, and they flat out said, "We're not helping you build the trails. We're not gonna help you design the trails. We got money. That's all. We want you to build us trails.
• 44:35
  Tell us where we can ride. Build us trails." Is- And that's the... And the- Is that the essential issue, that it's, um... I mean, is this a, is this a class war? And I'm asking that because- It, it, it is a bit, yeah...
• 44:44
  is it folks with money that are saying, "We don't wanna actually do the work- I don't know if it-... we're used to people doing the work for us"? I'm asking- I don't-... 'cause I don't know...
• 44:50
  I think, I think, I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's, it's- It's not necessarily that. Well, it's close, though. I mean, it, it's not necess- Because what I know about- It's that they have money-...
• 44:56
  Decorah Human Powered Trails, literally what I know is that you guys legitimately have worked your asses off to make sure that those trails are out there. Mm. And you can... I mean, the amount...
• 45:06
  I've only lived at Jesse's apartment down there for, like, three months, and I have already seen how much time he puts into it, and that's just... Cheers. Yeah, there we go.
• 45:15
  That's just one person of all of the entire group. Yeah. So that's why I'm asking. Well, and, and, and so, and they, and they... And I don't talk to, I haven't talked to any of the horse people in Towner.
• 45:25
  I don't know who they are. I've talked to other horse people, and they are...
• 45:28
  We've talked to the ones at Yellow River, and at Yellow River we don't mountain bike anymore because they've, they've taken the trails that the horses can ride on and they made them so wide and put gravel on them that they're absolutely no fun to ride a mountain bike on anymore.
• 45:37
  Okay. And they're... I don't know. What, what do, what would you call that when a horse puts a divot in the trail? Well, that's what I mean. Is it like- It's like cross-country... p- p- pucked up or something? Yeah.
• 45:46
  I don't know. I mean, it's a hoof print. And Volga- Yeah... Volga's the same way. Yeah. I mean, there is no such thing as a multi-use trail that horses can use. Right. Once a horse goes on it, it becomes a horse trail.
• 45:55
  It's not good for anybody else. You can't run on it. You can't ride on it. Well, this is my in- Yeah... this is my essential question, though, is why aren't horse folks creating trails that...
• 46:05
  'Cause they could have a- Because, because they're more... The, at least the ones down here, from what I'm hearing, from what I'm seeing- Yes...
• 46:11
  they don't, they see the trails there and they wanna know, "Why can't we ride on that trail?" Yeah. They're like, "Oh, my horse can take it." Or, or, or it's, it's, it's- It's a sense of entitlement...
• 46:19
  yeah, they're, yeah. And I didn't wanna say that because I don't know them, but to me that's what it is. We're trying- Well, I don't know anybody- Yeah... in this part of this, so I'm just calling it- Yeah...
• 46:26
  like I see it. [laughs] Yeah. So, so then the, so then, like I said, a couple years ago, but now lately the one that has been bugging me was they've been using trails that they're not supposed to. Yeah. And, and, and,
• 46:37
  um, this isn't gonna mean anything to you, but... So I was gonna- Say it. I might know it... I was gonna, I was gonna, I was gonna go out and work on a trail.
• 46:43
  There's a trail out there called Old Randy's, which is one of the original dump wide trails that was, that we use to get to the top of Ice Cave and above, above the bluffs looking down on the river, right? Okay.
• 46:53
  So we were gonna go, I was using that to get up to the top to do some mowing up there. And as I'm pushing the mower up there, I got, I didn't get 200 yards up there and there's a tree down.
• 47:02
  And, and, and just prior to that everybody's bitching about the horses riding on the newer trails just- Yeah... to the other side of it. Well, here's what happened. Tree went down.
• 47:09
  Horses can't get through, so they just turned around, went back down, and went up one of the other trails. Oh. And the trail they were on- Instead of moving the- Yeah.
• 47:15
  And the trail they were on, here's what pisses me off, the trail they were on is a trail that I had worked on it maybe a month before because a tree went through it, and it literally took four-inch wide branches into it and buried them six inches into the ground.
• 47:26
  So I'd kind of patched it, but we've been so busy I haven't really fixed it. My dog fell off that trail. Oh, no. And now this fucking idiot's out there riding his horse on it. Yeah.
• 47:34
  And, and, and I don't, and I've said this before to everybody else, now I get to talk to you so I'll tell you the same thing.
• 47:40
  If I were to ride out there with my bike and I see a horse go down that 'cause this guy's riding on there, I will do everything in my power to get the horse out of there. That fucking guy can lay in that ditch and die.
• 47:48
  I don't care. Yeah. Because if you're dumb enough to ride your horse on that- Narrow of a space... foot-and-a-half wide trail- Yeah... that's, that is soft as all get out.
• 47:56
  Like, if your horse starts walking up there and you can't realize that this is not a place that my horse should be and you don't turn around and go back, you don't, you don't deserve to have a horse.
• 48:02
  You don't know enough about horses, yeah. Yeah. I, I, it just drives me crazy. And, and I'm more worried about the horse than I am about the person on the horse- Right... because that's poor management.
• 48:10
  But so anyway- Can, okay, so can I, can I, can I be the musical person here and bring in a musical by the name of Oklahoma where they say, "Can't the cowboys and ranchers be friends?" [laughs] Oh.
• 48:23
  And so here's my question. Have you guys ever, have you tried... I am, if nothing, a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a person that is pro, like, peace and understanding between people. Yeah.
• 48:35
  Can you have a meeting where the city council or the city or the, or the parks and rec brings folks together that they are know that are active horse riders, trail riders, and active Decorah Human Powered Trail, and bring them together?
• 48:48
  Has that happened? Have you guys... 'Cause you said- Yes... "I don't really know who the people are." Yeah. I need two minutes uninterrupted. Okay. I won't say a word.
• 48:55
  I'm- Well, yeah, because- You know what I'm gonna do, Jesse, while you do that? [clicks tongue] Yeah. There you go. No, so- Keep my mouth busy... we've been to Park and Rec.
• 49:02
  [laughs] We were there with Tom, uh, Tom Osman. Uh, and so we were there, and Danielle. So, so here's, here's a couple things, and I'll just lay this out there. So y- we have been there.
• 49:12
  We've been in front of Park and Rec. Um, we had a meeting. Um, it was, it was- Uh, should horses be allowed in city parks? Yeah. The problem is Van Peenen is a city park. It was donated to the city.
• 49:26
  When it was donated in the '70s- Okay... Dr. Van Peenen said, "Hey, horses should be allowed up there for- Oh... I, I wanna donate this land to the city for hiking- Okay... horses."
• 49:37
  Before bikes were a thing, before mountain biking was a thing. So that's where this comes from. And we have been... This is the third time through this shit show, um, in our local government where, um,
• 49:52
  the bikes and, you know, 95% of the trail users don't have horses. Horses are not allowed. You can't have a horse in city limits. No. Mm-mm. You can't raise a horse.
• 50:01
  Um, the request to open that trail back up to horses came from somebody who is not a city taxpayer. They came from Winneshiek County. And- So they're not even paying taxes d- to, to be here. Um, but we've been there.
• 50:13
  We went through it. Um, I have sent... So somebody added horses back on to the Van Peenen access. Uh, it wasn't on the website until recently. And one Park and Rec member... Am I being too loud? No.
• 50:28
  No, you, you're going quiet. Oh, sorry. You're fine. One Park and Rec member is, uh, for horses, two are against, and two are undecided. Um, so y- we've been there. We give the arguments.
• 50:42
  Okay, but my brain still goes to, and I'm sorry- No. No. So I'm gonna- But my brain still goes to, why can't they- Well, so I'm-... just create new paths in Van Peenen? Because they won't, they won't do the work.
• 50:50
  They won't. But that's- And it's-... that's not your problem. I guess my, my point is- No, no, it's not our problem... that- Yeah...
• 50:54
  but what they're saying is like this- You can still give them access and follow the rules of Van Peenen- Sure... that it was donated to also provide access- Yeah...
• 51:00
  to horses without saying that we have to make the paths for you. Am I... Maybe I'm not thinking about it right. Well, that, that's, that's kind of a muddled mess as it is. I mean,
• 51:09
  um, you, there are people in town here that think that the work that we do on the trails is excessive. Wow. And, and that the Park Department's taking advantage of us. You mean all that too? Do you know that...
• 51:18
  Do you know how much money tourism brings into Winneshiek County? Yeah. Hey, we do. 20- 15 years ago- Yeah, we do... it was like- We do... $23 million in receipts. I don't even know- After COVID especially...
• 51:29
  I don't even know what it is now, and those trails are part of it. Yeah.
• 51:32
  And why anything- Ask Mike Bachman how many people, how many mountain bikes do you see out front after a ride, and how many horse trailers do you see out front after a ride? Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:39
  Well, but the, here's a, here's a other weird thing. Going back to your part, why can't we sit down and talk? Yeah. If I was... We, our- We have. I have...
• 51:48
  I, I, our, our group is, our group at, at our DHCP meetings, we've sat down, and it was a discussion. For the longest time, it's been a discussion of how do we make this work?
• 51:57
  How do we get to, get through to those guys that they can't ride certain trails because they're just gonna wreck them, and we don't have the manpower to take care of them? Yeah. You know what?
• 52:04
  And, and that- 70% agree with this. Yeah. And then, and but, but, uh, it's- 30%. But I don't know if you noticed at the last- Fuck it... at, at the last meeting
• 52:11
  th- there was only one person out of the, what was there, a dozen there, that was still willing to, um, try to figure out a way to work with the horse people. Everybody else that was there, hikers,
• 52:23
  runners, bicyclists- I wasn't there the year... and, and they, and they are, and they are just like, "Get them off the trails now." That's where it's gotten to.
• 52:29
  But a- and so, and so to me, the Park, the, the horse people go- Sorry. [dog barks] [laughs] The horse people go to the, they go to the Park Board and talk to them. Okay. Okay?
• 52:40
  They, they have never once approached you, Jesse, or, um, Nick or anybody on the board saying, "Hey, can we come, can we come and talk t- at one of your meetings?
• 52:50
  Can we have a meeting with you guys, and can we try to figure this out?" They've never once attempted to try to work with us. Okay. They've always tried to work around, not work around us.
• 52:59
  They've tried to circum- what do you call it? Circumvent. Yes. And then we also say- Yeah... like, "We built those trails." And some of the horse people is like, "No, we built those trails." Like- Yeah...
• 53:06
  I have pictures, and you weren't there. I have pictures from 2003. I have- Yeah. I... They, they said they built trails. I'm like- What fucking trail? Yeah. The only thing I can think...
• 53:16
  You think about everything that they w- they do up there is the double track, and the city goes and mows it for them. So they've got, I don't... And we gave them the two pine tree sections that we built. Right.
• 53:27
  So- Because it made sense- Yeah. Yeah... because it was off there. So they, they have, like, the whole top of Van Peenen, and then we have the side hills. Yeah. So, so to answer your question kind of- Yeah...
• 53:36
  I think that I would say 70 to 80% of the horse riders would agree with us, and they would ride the trails that are allocated to them or that wouldn't always say that they're fine. Okay.
• 53:47
  But one horse goes on this trail we call Iowa Public Television, steps wrong, and shits, and then that's a- Yeah... 12-inch wide trail, and it ruins it for everybody.
• 53:59
  So I mean, the Saddle Club or whoever needs to start trying to police their own, or we need to be able to say, "That's vandalism." Do you have good relationship with the Saddle Club? No.
• 54:09
  No, we don't have any 'cause they don't ever talk to us. Yeah. Well, Tom does, but I think, uh, I think I know who the president of the Saddle Club is, which would surprise you. I think it's Kelly Sorensen. Really? Yeah.
• 54:19
  But see, this is what- I know that... okay, so this is my point. This is my point. Uh, I, I really believe in the power of, I'm such an optimist, so you can hate me if you want.
• 54:29
  [laughs] But I believe in the power- I don't... of people- We've done it... if they actually... 'Cause the problem is we all have issues, right? And we figure out that we have these...
• 54:37
  They're bitching about you guys, right? I've, I'm certain. But if there's a way to get the two groups together and say, "Look, we all have a goal. Here's, here..."
• 54:45
  And to have somebody moderate it, like- Well, you know, here's the thing. The city has- And the, the c- The city has never-... the city should do it... the city has never even attempted to moderate it, I don't think.
• 54:53
  They just, they just, they bring it up, and they try to talk it amongst themselves, I'm assuming.
• 54:56
  But- We got a newer city manager, and we have a new Park and Rec director who doesn't under- So is this not a good time to get them to try to figure out- Well-... how to make this work? We took them out there.
• 55:03
  I, I- We explained it to them... I think, I think, I think, personally, I think the horse people are using, are take, trying to make an advantage of this.
• 55:09
  With the new, with two new people in there, they're going- Yeah... "Oh, we can get our way now" because there- Well-... because the other guys knew the history. Well, here's the other thing.
• 55:16
  Not every bike rider is a Decorah Human Powered Trails member. No, absolutely not. Not every horse rider is a Saddle Club member. Right. Right. Okay.
• 55:22
  So even if we say that thing, it's like, "Saddle Club, can you understand this?" When somebody comes from out of town or somebody who's not part of the Saddle Club can just go ride out there- And says, "Forget that.
• 55:30
  I'm just gonna do it anyway" Yeah. Not necessarily. I mean, there's no authority in either side. Right. So that's, that's another part of the problem.
• 55:36
  So in a perfect world, how would that even be p- you, 'cause you can't really police it, right? There's not...
• 55:40
  You can't have somebody on the trails- It's a city park, it- It's the same thing as, it's the same thing as e-bikes on, on paved trails. I got seven arguments ready to go. They're not supposed to, but how do you...
• 55:47
  You can't patrol it, right. I got seven arguments ready to go, and one of them is, okay, so if a horse rides, we report that to city of Decorah Police. Um, not to the sheriff, 'cause not a county park. Right.
• 55:59
  So it'd be city of Decorah Police. So that's another thing. Okay.
• 56:02
  Park and Rec, you need to have an agreement with the city police that if somebody is on a horse trail, if somebody's on a non-horse trail with a horse, that the cops come up there.
• 56:12
  So, yeah, so who- And they're gonna be like, "Fuck that." Yeah. It's city- "Then don't allow them!" Yeah... it's city property, right? Yeah, the city's also the property. It's the owner, it's the city of Decorah.
• 56:17
  Which means, and there is a- It's not a county park... and there is a public understanding. Here, let go with my argument here. Here you go.
• 56:23
  There is a public understanding in the United States, if you're in a public space, you might be on camera somewhere, right? Yeah. That is- We have cameras up there. Okay. So do trail cams and things like that? Yeah.
• 56:34
  Yep, we do. So is there a social media page where those folks can be like, "Hey, does anybody know who this rider is that was on..." I mean, the one thing that causes- Oh, it-...
• 56:45
  pressure more than anything else is peer pressure. Yeah. Right? To be able to say, "Oh yeah, that's, um, so-and-so." Because you might also find out, hear me out- I, I hear you... "Oh yeah, that's somebody from...
• 56:55
  We know them, they're from..." They had no idea. They didn't s- you know, I mean, they might have. Right, right. Yeah. But I mean, again, like that kid you talked about, there might be people getting on this trail.
• 57:06
  And I realize that one horse can really muck up a trail, right? Yeah. Like- But they had to ride past a no horse sign. That's kind of the thing. Well, and they've tore, they've tore the- They torn them off the trees.
• 57:15
  Well- Ooh... I guess we can't, we can't blame them, but- Somebody tore-... no horse signs have been tore off and thrown in the weeds. Get out. And... Yeah, yeah. Nope. I have pictures. That is- Yeah.
• 57:23
  I sent pictures to the city council. Yeah. That, that's, that's... I mean, it's... And again, it, you know, it could be- That's wild... it could be two people on horses as far as we know. Yeah. Yeah.
• 57:32
  You know, but it's... And it, and this is a, and this is a bad year on top of everything else, because it's, we've had so much rain. Yeah. Yeah. And the trails have been so soaked all the time- Yeah...
• 57:40
  that that it's really... I'm, e- even going up the trails that they can ride on, um, I don't remember seeing that much wear on the trails in the past. Okay. So you can tell that they're soft.
• 57:50
  And they're go- and they're... So they're not riding when it's raining, but they're- I mean, there's even notes when I go hiking, 'cause I hike now. Sure. When it's wet, they ask you to turn a- [laughs] Yeah.
• 57:59
  Nellie's doing something. [laughs] I just wanna be clear, that was not Jenny Gross. Yeah, she, she's just started singing. [laughs] But, but one more thing, one more thing.
• 58:08
  Here- You do that, you do that before you sing too though, yeah? [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] So one more thing to your point. Yeah. And just understanding this piece.
• 58:16
  So, like, me personally, you know, I'm involved with wrestling here. Yeah. I'm a firefighter. Yeah. Um, I like to play rugby in my free time, and I like to ride my bike once in a while.
• 58:25
  And in my spare time, I build trails. If it gets to the point where I'm just a guy trying to police the trails- Yeah... I don't wanna do that. No, and I don't mean you. I don't wanna have to, like...
• 58:35
  Well, but that's all of us. I mean, so we put in a lot of volunteer time to make the trails better and make this a better place and make it... We, we basically make these bluffs and woods accessible to people. Yeah.
• 58:46
  Um, so, you know, I don't wanna add policing to my volunteer shit. No. And, and, and, and it would be, it'd be hard to do just because you're just a guy on a bike. They're not gonna listen to you anyway.
• 59:00
  Put a- No, I get it. I get it... put a- I'm a wrestler on a bike. I'll do something. [laughs] Well, there is that.
• 59:04
  But there's- We could get- But, you know, but at the same time- We could get, we could get bicycle police jerseys. There we go. Oh my gosh. But, you know, it would just be like- You know [laughs]...
• 59:12
  at the end of the day, I don't wanna have to fight people on the trail. Yeah. No. Yeah. I just, I, I just, like, stay the fuck out of there. And you know, and I'll be honest with you, I have yet to see a horse out there.
• 59:21
  All the times I'm on the trails- I've never seen one... I've never seen a horse out there. I don't know what time of day they ride. It's obviously when I'm not out there. Or so, in other words, it's early. Yeah. No.
• 59:29
  Are you kidding? [laughs] I get up, like- What time did you guys get up today? [laughs] Uh... I left here at 7:00. Yeah. Dang. That was 'cause personal- I, I know. I was quiet when I came in. I'm gonna say this.
• 59:41
  Wrestlers and bikers are a different breed of humans. You all can stay up super late and then get up early. Because as a musician now, I'm gonna be honest, if I'm out late- You probably play late a lot...
• 59:53
  I sleep until my body decides it's time to get up, and that might be noon, like it was today. [laughs] Yep. To be fair, I've seen Chewy wrestle, and he is not a wrestler. [laughs] He's a hockey player.
• 1:00:03
  Wait, what does Chewy wrestle? [laughs] [claps] Seriously, does she- Spinner is known for the meat hook. Oh, yeah. The New Jersey meat hook. Yep. And also for flip.
• 1:00:14
  Do you remember Debbie Paulson used to flip her every- Oh, she would just walk up to me with her arms fully, be like, "Please." Just like this.
• 1:00:20
  [laughs] It's just a lat drop, but you catch them before they hit the ground. That's all it is. Yeah. He just, but he, he will flip you.
• 1:00:29
  And if you don't know what's going on, your life just flashes before your eyes in that moment. [laughs] You're like, "I, I'm dead. I'm gone."
• 1:00:35
  I feel like a lot of people don't leave their feet very much, which they should. We don't leave our feet very much. That is true. From a standing position. Yeah.
• 1:00:42
  [laughs] Oh, I'm glad you, I'm glad you clarified that, clarified that. [farts] Nice. [laughs] It's normal to wrestlers, I think. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, when's the last time...
• 1:00:51
  Here's a question for you, Spinner. When's the last time somebody either, A, meat hooked you successfully? I attempted to, but it didn't work. Um, successfully- I immediately grabbed the wrist, but yes...
• 1:01:03
  or, or flipped you? When's the last time? Back in 2001? I don't know. [laughs] Like- I, I don't know. I've never seen it happen. Okay, here's a challenge, America.
• 1:01:13
  I, I don't, I can't even- Somebody needs to flip Spinner. You do realize only three people listen to this. Yeah, but okay. [laughs] This is just, this is just for our own entertainment.
• 1:01:21
  [laughs] And now all three of them are gone. Yeah. Jenny? Yeah. You haven't had Jenny Grouse on your podcast before. Oh, I know. I know. There's- Greg, Tony, and JK... we should get another spike.
• 1:01:28
  I can see it coming right now. Hey, challenge, challenge to- You might get four... Sven, Tony, and JK. Yeah. Somebody wanna fucking me hook me? [laughs] Yep, there it is.
• 1:01:34
  We're coming to Mo- we have to go to Milwaukee for Steel's Reel in September. We should go. Well, are they having it? Yeah. Okay. I don't remember when, in September something. He asked me about it for coming.
• 1:01:41
  Is that a race? No, it's actually just a fun ride. It's a ride. Oh. It's just a fun ride. It's like a bar hop ride, and then- We can, we can- It gives us an e- Yeah... excuse to go over there.
• 1:01:48
  Yeah We stay in shady hotels. It's just like, it's like, it's like- [laughs] Screw, yeah, that was, that place was fricking- We're like, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. We're the only white guys- Shady hotels are the best...
• 1:01:56
  in like three blocks That's what musicians do too, so I hear you on that. La, la, well, last time, last time I was over there, Shannon and I stayed at, um, at, uh, Tony's house. Oh. Oh. Oh? Mariposa? Uh, yeah.
• 1:02:10
  That's a mountain cur. That's a Vivian breed. Yep. Yep. No, his, he had, his a- adopted son, now him and I were having far too much fun. Well, he had a, yeah, he had a helmet on last time he rode.
• 1:02:19
  Is that, is he out of that? I mean, he's probably bigger now. Oh, he's bigger. He's a, he's, he should be wrestling. That, that boy is solid. Is he? Yeah, 'cause I was body slamming him.
• 1:02:28
  [laughs] Little naked kid running around- I need, now I need to go boom... and I would pick him up over my head and slam, slamming him on top of his dad. His, Tony was in bed, and we both go, "Is your dad still in bed?"
• 1:02:36
  "Yeah." So we go running up there- Go get him... jump in bed with him. [laughs] And then there, he's remodeling this house, so there's a bathtub sitting in their, in, in a crate sitting in their, uh- [laughs]...
• 1:02:44
  in their bedroom. So, so of course this kid jumps up on there, and I just grab him, body slam him into the bed again. [laughs] It was just like- Oh, no... we were having way too much fun. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
• 1:02:54
  You guys, I, I will say this, I have always known this about the biking community, is that it's, it's, it seems like a super welcoming place, and you guys always have a good time.
• 1:03:05
  I have, I have not meant, met in my life a really grumpy biker. [laughs] Like- You, you've-... they're probably out there... you've- Have you talked to Algara when he's sober? Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Okay, okay, wait.
• 1:03:15
  Or, or you've never met any road riders, that's it. Should I rephrase this? No roadies. I have never met a s- a, a, a, a biker who was in a bad mood after hanging out and going out. I didn't say when they were sober.
• 1:03:28
  [laughs] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean like- We-... you guys always seem like you have a good time, and you have a really cool community. We do.
• 1:03:33
  We're really, uh, and I think, I think the mountain bike one is special, and I'll, and, and I think, I think the single speed one is even, even more so. Yeah. Like the single speed one is- It's not our job. Yeah.
• 1:03:44
  If, if you ride a single speed, you have to be okay with failing a lot. Can I tell you why? Like there's not a whole lot of ego.
• 1:03:49
  It's because you just, it's like it's not gonna- You, you can't, you, you can't ride everything... you gotta jump off and push your bike, and you're like, "I'm not the fastest here."
• 1:03:55
  I like, I like to hurt some feelings when I race. When- But you, you [laughs]... single speed, single speed races is, the, there's a, there's a prize for the first place male, first place female. That's it. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:04:04
  They don't care how old you are. They don't care how fast you are, how much you train. No age categories, no sex categories. Yeah, yep. Well, I guess there is. Ma- male and female, that's it. Yeah.
• 1:04:10
  But I mean, other, you know, you know, in single speed worlds you get a tattoo, and if you don't want the tattoo, you better not win. Yeah. 'Cause there was a- Don't fucking win...
• 1:04:19
  when, when, when we were in Ireland, the kid that won didn't think he was gonna get a tattoo, and DJ and I cornered him and dragged him in there and said, "W- where do you want it?
• 1:04:26
  Otherwise, we're gonna put it where we want it." Jesus, what a memory. And his mom, his mom and dad stepped in 'cause he was just 18, and go, "He knew the rules before he left 'cause we talked to him about it." Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  "And all's he had to do is stop just before the finish line and let it-" Let someone else win. "Let, let a guy go across the line and then cross.
• 1:04:39
  Everybody knows that you won the race, and, but you don't have to get the tattoo." But he crossed the line first, and he knew he'd had to, so he's getting a tattoo. Wow.
• 1:04:46
  And then he thought he was gonna get it on his foot. Is this in Iraq? Okay. And I'm like, I'm like, "Uh, no, you weren't there. This is over in Ireland." Oh.
• 1:04:52
  And then he go, I go, "No, now get," my kid is a tattoo artist. That's awesome. I go, "You're not getting it on your foot. They, they won't do it on your foot." So I go, "Where do you want it?"
• 1:04:58
  So here's the best part, he gets it put on the top cheek of his ass. [laughs] His pants were down all night long. He was so fucking proud of that tattoo. [laughs] He showed it to everybody. [claps] Tramp stamp. Yep.
• 1:05:09
  [laughs] Well, it's not a tramp stamp because it's not his cheek. It's not like... [laughs] I don't know. Anyway. I don't know. But that, but that's- Hey... but that's- If he's a roadie, it is a tramp stamp.
• 1:05:17
  [laughs] True, never thought about it that way. Um, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that group, I mean, that we've, our podcasts are telling those stories all the time.
• 1:05:25
  [dog barking] So what's bigger, the single speed group or the mountain biking group? Oh, mountain bike by far. Like- Yeah, they're both big. Like the single speed race I think it's held this year.
• 1:05:34
  Yay, there's more women here. [laughs] [claps] Hey. Bring us beer. We need beer delivery. She brought a 30 pack of beer, Shades. She did really? And- Shades, our hero. She's sh- she's switching them in and out.
• 1:05:46
  I don't know what's going on. Ladies and gentlemen, we have been joined by the talented, the ballsy- Hold on, I just saw her pull out a-... the sexy-... Bud Light aluminum bottle, and I'm not happy about that.
• 1:05:57
  [laughs] Hey, you know what? I'm, I take, I take it this is left over, this- She doesn't do everything for you... I'm assuming this is left over from the kayak trip. Oh. [dog barking] Anyways. Hello, Shannon.
• 1:06:06
  So did we, did we settle the horse debate? Or what, I think we had a horse- Yep, we did. Well, oh. [dog barking] The dogs are very excited to see her. Yeah. I'll shut this down for just a second.
• 1:06:14
  Do you wanna take a break? And we'll be right back. [dog barking] [laughs] I don't wanna s- After these messages... I don't wanna stall this 'cause I'm afraid it'll turn it off. Oh. Yeah, that's the problem.
• 1:06:24
  I, we can do a Haymarket commercial or something. Jenny Grouse knows that. Do, do, did you do a Haymarket commercial? Hey, folks. [laughs] Do you want cheap beer and questionable morals?
• 1:06:32
  Wait, wait, are you, are you- Have you needed a night when you can't remember how shitty your day was? [laughs] Friends, we have a place for you. It's called the Haymarket in downtown Decorah.
• 1:06:41
  Yes, the Haymarket that was once falling down, but my uncle, Keith Munson, did a tuck point and put that sucker back up where it belongs- [laughs]...
• 1:06:49
  in a terrible, terrible- It's one of those bars where the bartender will buy you whiskey shots. Don't tell people that. [laughs] Oh, okay.
• 1:06:57
  So in other words, now n- now that we've got T Box and Haymarket together- Haymarket covered... and we've already, we're- And we sent you our place...
• 1:07:03
  and we've already got it honored, do we have to go now, now and ask for money for advertising and shit? You should. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] You wanna do an Amy Grouse man?
• 1:07:09
  Do you know, do you know who you should not ask, um, to secure- Hey... your advertising dollars? What? Mike Knipper. Oh, don't do that. Don't ask Mike Knipper. My old boss. He's not good? He said the opposite.
• 1:07:18
  But with that, let, let's see, let's see where this goes. Okay. Hey, Jenny. It's good. Wait, is it- Do you know Tommy? Tommy? Tommy used to work under the docks. Oh my God, he's back. [laughs] He's so back.
• 1:07:32
  Oh, he works for the union. I so- He works for the union, but the union's been on strike... I so fucking love you right now. He's down on his luck. He's down on his luck. It's tough. It's tough. So tough.
• 1:07:40
  [laughs] Um, but he- he dates Gina. Do you know Gina? You know Gina? Yeah, she's been working at the diner all day. All day, working for the man. Yeah. But she brings home the pay. But it wasn't with love. For love.
• 1:07:52
  D- just, I hope you guys are having fun- «For love»... because you were saying to turn this off 20 minutes ago. [laughs] I know, right?
• 1:07:58
  > > You're a terrible singer. > He doesn't care. And, and the drunker he gets, the louder he gets.
• 1:08:09
  And then Shannon will turn up the music so he can drown him out. > Yeah. [laughs] [coughs] All right. Have we had enough of this? Oh my God, that hurt. [laughs] I feel like I just took a hit.
• 1:08:21
  That was intense. [laughs] That hurt. You're welcome. All right. Are we out of here? We can be? I think we're out of here. All right, we're out of here. All right, uh- Hey, thanks, by the way... oh. This was super fun.
• 1:08:30
  Thank you for coming. It was really weird, but I appreciate it. Thank you. We solved nothing. We talked about nothing.
• 1:08:34
  Hey, I feel like we're a step closer to figuring out how the horse, how the horse folks and the bikers can be friends. [laughs] Okay.
• 1:08:41
  I'm g- I'm gonna have to go back and listen to this 'cause I'm pretty sure it didn't- Yeah, you gotta. [laughs] All right. Thanks, you two. Bye-ee. That was a Kayla, "Bye-ee." Bye-ee. [upbeat music] There it is.
• 1:08:54
  There it is. [laughs] I was wondering where the hell our music went. This is it. And by the way, don't take your stuff off because we're not done. Oh, lord. No, no, no.
• 1:08:59
  We just, we just, we have a tendency to talk over the music until we're all done. Oh my gosh.
• 1:09:03
  Is this the appropriate time to tell you- And, and we, and we always thought, we always thought that Greg would, Greg would cut it out, and he just leaves it in. [laughs] Why would he? I don't know.
• 1:09:10
  Wait, somebody goes in like this? He doesn't listen to it. Yeah. Oh, shoot. He treats it- He just takes out the dead air. [laughs] Hi, Greg. Thanks for editing me. Sven hammer. Make me sound sexy and tall.
• 1:09:22
  [laughs] Sexy and tall? [laughs] Five foot what? [laughs] That's it. [laughs] I don't know if you got it or-