Latest / Skin Anarchy / Charles Rosier, Co-Founder and CEO of Augustinus Bader Skincare

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Charles Rosier, Co-Founder and CEO of Augustinus Bader Skincare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skin Care Anarchy.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I am so excited for today's episode because this brand is genuinely the leader in skincare right now and rightfully so.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: They've received over 62 awards or 62 awards in 43 months, if I'm not mistaken.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, just everyone in the in the beauty industry, in the skincare industry, is such a huge fan, including myself.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so honored and so humbled to be hosting their co-founder and CEO today.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Charles Rosier, who is the co-founder and CEO of Augustinius Botter.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us, Charles.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for this kind introduction.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very excited to be here with you.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Lovely.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I really, really um have been looking forward to this interview because I am such a fan of the brand.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm such a fan of the science.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Professor Bodder has truly created something magical here.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I I would love to learn all about it from you, but I want to get started.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you could bring us, you know, to the very beginning of things and really uh tell us about how the brand came to be and how the innovations really came to be and you know, the whole journey really.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, for sure.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's true that Agustinus and myself we do not have a beauty background.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Agus Nus is still today the head of stem cell research at the University of Leipzig.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was he was a liver transplant surgeon more than 30 years ago, uh, one of the first in Europe, and and the one, the first in Europe to have a university share in tissue engineering, which was the ancestor of stem cell science.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, nine years ago, um a common friend introduced me to Agustinus, telling me he was the best brain in the world in stem cell science.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that common friend used to be Steve Jobs' mentor, and he's a very uh demanding character, laser focused, and very interested in the field of stem cell.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So when when he said that, I took it for granted, and uh and I stayed in touch with Augustinus because at the time I was uh helping uh a French uh researcher on spinal cord injury, so I was interested in the stem cell aspect of it, and uh but again I never thought we would do something.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: But uh after two years of you know keeping in touch with Augustinus in um uh on different subjects, I went to visit him in Leipzig and he showed me during that visit the picture of a four-year-old girl that got burned, second and third degree.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the the head of reconstruction surgery at the University Hospital in Munich, who used to be uh you know studying transplant surgery with Augustine thirty years before, as he knew about the research and and the disruptive um you know creation of Augustus in that wound gel, and and that that girl was the daughter of a friend of his, uh he decided to apply to suggest to his friend to use that that you know wound gel and to apply it on on his daughter's uh friend and on his friend's daughter.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to cut the long story short, after four days, he showed me the pictures of the you know, that again he did not took the pictures himself, it was taken there at the that uh university hospital.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um the skin was started to heal, and after two weeks you could see a difference of pigmentation, but really the the burn being nearly fully healed, and after six months again, you see a small difference of pigmentation in skin, but no scars.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And after one year, as if nothing happened.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, that wound gel can prevent scarring and skin graft, which is obviously major because for children you have the pain, the psychological trauma, you might have to reoperate and reopen the wounds 10 times uh till they get to adulthood to let the you know the toes and separate the toes and let so so it's a major when I saw that I was really shocked and um and wondering why, if that thing, that wound gel existed, why it's not fully available, why why you know we don't have it uh in Warzone for Red Cross, even for mother going on holidays with their children.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, the the reason was that he was um doing phase one clinical studies and being a university professor, because to do phase two, phase three, phase four, you need tens of millions of investment.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: He was not he did not manage uh you know necessarily to convince pharmaceutical group to support the cost of his research.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh because uh burns are actually more something from developing countries, because that's where uh fire is still being used to cook and to and to heat.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and in and develop and in developed countries the the subject of burn luckily is not a major, major concern.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So basically the risk reward uh of financing such a project was was not necessarily the most attractive to to pharmaceutical group at the time.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um so anyway, so I was I was you know frustrated myself to see that that in some way such such a thing existed, but but there was no financing to back it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and I was trying to see if I knew someone who could, you know, in the because I knew some investors in the biotech world or myself or other people could could support the the financing of it.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: And uh at the time I did not have personally the liquidity to support that financing.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, searching in my head for solution, I thought, okay, burn skin, perfect skin.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought wrinkle, perfect skin.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I asked him if he could create an anti-wrinkle cream that worked, and uh, and he said yes, why?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I said, okay, let's discuss that tomorrow morning at the breakfast.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I had the breakfast with him and explained to him again the positive financial dynamics potentially of the skincare market if you create a successful product, and that that could basically fund his research.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and it took me another two years to convince him, and after two years, and he create so he created uh, you know, during those two years, he created a prototype and gave it to some patients, and uh and they and they were apparently very happy about the result of that prototype and were calling him to have more.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And therefore, after two years, he said, Listen, the people seem happy.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: I receive calls of patients that wants, instead of giving me news about their treatment, they actually ask me more of that cream, so it seems to trigger an interest from people and make them happy.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: So let's do it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: In a very candid way, he said that, and we we created the company, and then it took another year and a half to translate that medical know-how to a skincare product that would you know respect the the regulation of the skincare market, which is obviously a different regulation than the medical one, and uh and and and and here we are.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, again, not something that was completely uh meant to be when we met the first time with Augustus, or at least not not our expectation at the time, but uh since since then uh a very interesting journey because um you know the the let's say the the disruptive discovery of Augustinus is that he's the only one in the world who found the signals to trigger our dormant stem cells.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really where that that his science and know-how is different from what exists, and so it's a it's a communication technology, and and that's a bit that know-how about cellular communication that we've tried to translate in the skincare product, and and I think that creates a little bit of a of a different quality or efficacy of product, and and I think that's really the the reason why the journey has been so far uh a good journey on the skincare side.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, you know, this is such a uh phenomenal conversation for me because um, you know, I am a huge believer in the the value of biomedical research, you know, over just uh, you know, plain clinical practice and clinical uh observations.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that, you know, it's very, very much understated in the beauty industry, uh, how valuable, you know, a lot of the skincare products, especially, you know, Professor Butter, his work is a shining example of this, but you know, the the medical, uh the biomedical potential and from an academic setting or a research uh standpoint is always underrated.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really glad that you are explaining this because um this is something that I feel very passionately about and I've tried to explain this to many people is that you know you can't go on skincare and look at it like you would like Botox injections or fillers or, you know, like invasive treatments because it's a cellular and molecular mechanism that um is really being utilized and and worked with, and that requires time and it requires, you know, a totally different approach.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, with that in mind, I want to actually ask you to kind of uh if if possible go into detail about um how this translated over to daily skincare products because I know with burn patients um it's a very aggressive uh you know uh course that we take to you know bring them back to normal.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you know water loss is a huge problem with uh burn patients.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the biggest, it's actually an area of study that I'm actually involved in is uh water loss and burn victims and you know how that overall works and all that good stuff.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really curious from the science side, like you know, how this translated over um into something that's a daily skincare product.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's it's uh you're right, it's it's a very, very different uh the wound gel was a hydrogel that was adapted to uh open wounds.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, in some ways uh to work, it needed to intact skin.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you apply that wound gel that it created in 2008 on intact skin, it would have no impact.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um that that again, because really the the technology and discovery of agustinus is really about um communication, as I said earlier, and and therefore the discoveries of agustinus is in some ways, if if we take a parallel, if you cut your your hand with a piece of paper, you have no scar.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: But then if you have if you have a big wound or if you burn yourself on a hot plate, you you might have a scar.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and so his investigation was were really to say, but genetically we are the same person.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: So why in some cases our body shows us a perfect healing, and in other instances we seem to go to a different route, which is scar formation.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And what he has discovered again is is stem cells healing or or perfect healing comes from the the arrival at more or less the same time of two signals.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the parallel is as if in order to open a door, you need to enter two keys and turn them more or less at the same time.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: So stem cell awakening is is a similar process, and therefore trauma creates the first set of signals, and then from trauma, you you you know, you a second set of signals is being built in your body, comes from different organs in your body, and and you know, that seems from vitamins that you eat and and different things you take from from your food, and that second set of signals arrive on the site of the trauma, and in the presence of those two sets of signals, the neighboring stem cells are activated and healed.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um when you have a big wound and and a big burn, in that case, the vascular system locally is being destroyed.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you have the first set of signals from the trauma that are present, but then the second set of signals cannot arrive on site.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And therefore, in that wound gel that he created in 2008, you that wound gel that hydrogel contained the second set of signals.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, his disruptive knowledge is about the nature of that second set of signals that our body naturally makes in case of trauma, but also the right dosage.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just a question, a question of understanding what it is, but you know, if you overdose, it doesn't work, uh, you know, it's it's a precise as well quantity, and therefore, you know, translating that into skincare was was obviously different because you don't have the trauma, and we're not gonna ask uh skincare users to traumatize their skin every day.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: That would not be ideal, but but but but but but we have micro-trauma traumas every day from from the sun, from pollution, from just a natural aging process.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, in some ways, those those micro-trauma signals are present, and um, and you know, every day we we slightly remodel the skin, our body remodels a small percentage, and it's it's you know it's this 27 days cycle for skin to remodel.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And in some ways, our skin cells, our skin stem cells are programmed to do perfect skin, but again, with the lack of the availability of that second set of signals, whether it's because as we age, that availability diminishes in terms of quantity, or whether it is because of excess trauma, um, we don't necessarily have the full information for our cells, and therefore our skin cells, our skin stem cells do not necessarily go to that route of perfect skin.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, what the what that skincare product is trying to do is to nourish the environment of your skin cells in order to give the right ingredient again in the right dosage to create an optimal environment, an optimal you know, communication.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we we we increase the probability that the skin cells take the right decision and go into a more perfect skin route when they go for remodeling.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a kind of of daily um you know, daily nourishment of the skin cells environment.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So the right the right communication is being again and the right path is is being uh triggered or rather than triggered.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's a really, really interesting explanation.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you went into detail about that because you're absolutely right.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I think um also a point just to add to what you said, from what my understanding is that our um, you know, our normal immunological response that's involved in like overall health and healing also diminishes with age.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're able to elicit, you know, this positive response via topical application of something um like a cream or you know, a gel, that's really great because that is a normal phenomena you know physiological response our bodies have with age.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I really, really love um the the concept and theory of this because you know I think this is really like at the cutting edge of innovation in medical science because this is, you know, as somebody who sees trauma every day, I can tell you like, you know, that's the biggest problem is to how to get the body back to normal.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the conversation is always about well, the whole immune regulatory system of the body is you know completely messed up.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we bring that back to homeostasis?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that really feeds into what you've described here, and you know, and you actually answered my question because one of my biggest questions was about UV uh damage.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad that you addressed the micro trauma aspect.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely, you're totally right.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's very interesting that I think you know, we we are coming back nowadays in uh when you sit, uh one manifestation is obviously the wellness trend, and and some people would argue again that with the the COVID, with the pandemic, we all you know put again our health um more at the center of our concerns.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, it's I think that it's all nowadays a little bit about empowering your inner doctor.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's we understand that the body is an incredible and an incredible um you know um machine in some ways, and uh and that as we said, maybe it comes from pollution, external trauma, um, contamination from from the air or the food, etc., that in some ways disturb natural processes that that are uh you know that are set from day one.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and therefore I think this this uh as you said, trying to re-establish an optimal way for our body to work at the level where our body is actually created to work is is something that a lot of us are are are focusing on, and that's why I think there is this return to be more careful about what food do we eat and and what type of life do we have, and what's the level of stress we are imposing to our mind and body, etc.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: etc.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's all what the concept is called you know epigenetic, i.e.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: the fact that 85% of what we do on a daily basis will create the expression of our genetic code.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like a curse to say we are born with a genetic code and whatever happens is being determined day one from our genetic code.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, 85% of the expression of that genetic code is being determined by the way we live.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that cream in some ways is a little bit of an epigenetic cream, it it nourishes the cell environment like good food to influence hopefully positively uh, you know, again, the natural processes of your skin.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone listening, just to touch upon epigenetics a little bit, it's really about like, um, for example, what Charles is referring to oftentimes, you know, the most we know really in biomedical sciences is about the methylation and acetylation of like DNA, like genes in your DNA and turning on and off of those genes and you know, those kind of changes.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I completely agree.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very, very uh novel area of research that we know very little about.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um actually, my one of my theses uh for one of my degrees was on epigenetics.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this is very uh I have a nerd moment here.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to hear you speak of that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's definitely an area that needs to be studied.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with skin health, I, you know, one of my biggest uh concerns is that, you know, when dermatologists like, you know, they they downplay the importance of good skin care uh routine, it it bothers me because, like you said, we have to get into the habit of uh really applying preventative measures in our care of our organs and especially the skin, because it is our most exposed organ.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, to to completely uh disregard the preventative um, you know, or the the value of preventative care is is so uh ludicrous to me, you know, when I hear some professionals speak of that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that this is a great example, you know, the the this line and what Professor Botter has done here is is such a revolutionary way of thinking about skin health.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I I really, really commend, you know, the whole line for that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now um yeah, now one question I do have is more on the um, you know, on the end of like just fitting into the skincare industry, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think when we have like a very science-heavy product, it's very hard to explain that to people and to consumers.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And did you guys run into any uh problems uh in terms of like transitioning into the space and um you know really having to explain like what's going on, or how was that whole process for the for the company?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, so I I think the the the way the the way you know we had three waves that that created maybe the the brand awareness and and the after adoption of of the brand.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: So the first wave was was the fact that very early on the cream was uh adopted by a lot of celebrities in Hollywood, and I'm saying that not you know because of the importance, I'm not saying that there is uh more importance from them, but it's true that not having a big marketing budget that was very useful to get a voice and a little bit of uh of influence from Hollywood, because it's true that people in Hollywood have this global influence, uh, if you take away China, but they're known in the whole world.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And and therefore, when they when in an interview or in a magazine they mentioned a product as part of their routine, it was useful at the beginning of our journey to create a bit of curiosity and interest.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Then the second wave was even more important and more essential, and it's the wave of what's happening today, which is to talk to people with an audience, you know, journalists and and and people uh like you that that allows us to explain and amplify the messages.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and what was interesting is as you know, especially at right at the beginning when we launched, beauty uh journalists and and and journalists in general, they get a lot, a lot of products every week.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have new companies launching products every week.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and therefore they cannot realistically try everything because uh that that would just destroy their skin, you know, if they apply five different products on their skin every day, not knowing exactly what's you know, if the product is really clean or not, and what's the active ingredients in it, etc.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we would not recommend to anyone to try you know 10 different skincare every day.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and therefore, therefore, what happens is a lot of those gifts, the same way actually from Hollywood stars, you know, a lot of gifts that go around of product to test end up in the hand of uh of a cousin or somebody else that you know or and and are not really being tested by the people that that you know the product is addressed to.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And in the case of journalists, I think the credibility of Augustinus when we did uh press days and and and journalists came to meet with Augustinius, when they heard his story and they checked his curriculum and background and publication and studies, and and when he started telling about his experience and sharing the pictures again of patients and uh at the time of the wound gel and thing, they that that really triggered their curiosity.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And they they thought, oh wow, this is different from what we used to hear about a new launch, because as they said to us at the time, you know, we always hear about one magic ingredient or a plant that was found or a flowering hemalaya, etc.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: etc.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it's hard for us to believe in that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and they said, okay, you know, that seems serious, that seems serious investigation, serious science, and therefore, I think the the background and the credibility of Augustinus triggered the fact that we qualified to be a product that they actually did try.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of journalists actually did try the product with an open mind, and and we said to them, listen, it has to be put on your skin as a first layer that should be part of your, you know, after you clean your skin, try to try to put the cream on it so that the active ingredients is in direct contact with your skin.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of journalists did that, and and they started sharing their journey with their audience.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, magazine like InStyle or Town and Country and Allure and Vogue and all those magazines that have uh you know a voice and different audiences and and skincare as well, um platforms, and uh and and and therefore that that was very good for us because it was really in an editorial manner, it was not an advertising campaign, it was really a sincere voice where journalists were okay, I've tried this, I met that professor, I've tried the product, and really I I saw results.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I'm really impressed by the result.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've never seen results like that after months.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've never so that really was the second wave of of interest from from the consumer and and from you know from the press.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and then and then the word of mouth was the most major consequences of that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I think yeah, the word of mouth has been uh has been phenomenal.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to interrupt you because I in the early phases of the podcast when I was interviewing a lot of the editors, I would always hear um Professor Butter's line come up, always like it was almost as if every editor would make it a point because I'd always ask them, like, you know, what are your favorite products right now?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: What are you using for your skin?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this was a continuous trend in every interview I did, where it was definitely brought up and it just made me realize, like, you know what, I can't wait for the day where I get to interview that line because um, you know, I've it it really is what you said.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: People have had these firsthand experiences.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I must say that I also fall into that category because um, you know, before uh before I tried to line, I made it a point to not use anything else on my skin.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wanted to see the efficacy on my own, you know, with my own skin and my own genes, I guess you could say.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it truly is very, very uh, you know, it works beautifully.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's fast results, if you know, for lack of a better term, in the sense that, you know, my skin, like my pore size was better, my overall like you know, oil production through the day has improved.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a really revolutionary technology that's being utilized.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I can definitely uh join that group of journalists and say that this is this is really, really great, uh, great stuff.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank thank you so much.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, no, I it's um as I said, it's it's and and we've been very uh we are very grateful and we've been very blessed and lucky because uh you know a lot of things have happened organically.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: So so it's true that uh again, it was uh there was not necessarily a big strategic plan behind it, but things came together.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And as you said, the the the word of mouth is is very powerful.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think we live in a world where a lot of of consumers and people are looking for authenticity, and they're you know, it's this type of products is some somehow they're not cheap, so it's an investment.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: So you you need to understand the reason why, and that's when as well it's a platform to explain a little bit the the background and the science of Agustinus, because you know, without the credibility and the reason why, and and and again the the development of those products, I I don't think if it was just a question of celebrity endorsement, I I don't think it's enough.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really the combination of of all this of testimonial from journalists or friends who have tried the cream and recommend them to their friends or family.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a combination nowadays for people to get convinced to try a new product.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I completely agree with you.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I want to actually ask you because I know everyone's very curious.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I recently had the honor of interviewing um Sarah Creel from Victoria Beckham Beauty, and we um she she touched upon how Victoria, when she wanted to launch a skincare line, she immediately went to Professor Butter and was like, you know, this is like Sarah really um, you know, emphasized that, that this was her first go-to.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so I want to ask about that collaboration.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how was that?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, um, what was the what was the response you had when that came uh up on your desk?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, uh that absolutely it's a it's a great question because it it really echoed what I was saying about um organic uh things, you know, it was it was really uh it was authentic in the sense that Victoria discovered the cream during a trip to Australia with this.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um she had that that there is a very famous top fascialist, very talented in Australia called Melanie Grant.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And she had a facial treatment there, and Melanie said, You have to try that product.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and she tried our cream and then rich cream or the reverse and and fell in love with the product and the results she could see.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then she started posting on her social media the fact that she she thought that cream was so good and revolutionary and amazing.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and without contacting us, you know, we were not aware of, you know, she never reached out to us and asked for if we if she could receive some products, or it was really organic and and and again a true testimonial.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's true that Victoria has been over the last few years, even during the time of her fashion line, she was sharing with her community a lot of tips about beauty and skincare.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, so she had she had you know a credible voice.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's not somebody who suddenly is jumping on the train of the hype of okay, I'm a celebrity, I'm gonna create a skincare brand.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, she was really truly passionated about it for years.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and therefore, when they reached out, and exactly as you said, I I met with uh Victoria business partner, and he said in a very honest way, he said, listen, we we have this project.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Victoria feels that to get uh you know credible and uh performance skincare, uh she you know she needs the help of of um people that that have you know the the let's say the credibility and the research that that would combine with her own taste for texture and and and results, if it could be like uh a joint work that would be a much more powerful result.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and she actually we asked her what would be the number one on your list uh to do it.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: And she said if if I had you know my my my dream and scenario and my number one wish is uh Professor Bader, and um and so we're reaching out to you.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we were kind of you know the flattered by being the first on the list, and obviously uh you know, we we were at a time where the brand was was starting, and and and there was also it I can call it a win-win situation because again, we we would benefit from Victoria's credible voice and an audience, and in exchange, we would also bring um you know the the let's say the the disruptive science and know-how from Agustinus.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that would be a great combination, and um, and that's what we did, and that's been a very, very um great experience because both Sarah and Victoria are passionated, they're hard working, they're down-to-earth uh women, I mean, lovely, lovely people.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: So both Agustinus and myself had a wonderful you know experience uh working with them.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and that's again, that's that's why as I said, when when things happen organically and they happen in an authentic manner, they they resonate more, I think.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and and we've been lucky for that.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when I saw that Victoria Packham was um having a partnership with the uh the brand, you know, it was very exciting for me because I, you know, obviously I'm a huge fan of Victoria, I've always been.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, it was really nice to see that she was, you know, referencing a brand and a and and a person who, you know, Professor Roder is revolutionary in the science world, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to give credit to scientists, and I think this is something that's very close to my heart is that you know, true researchers and um medical geniuses and you know, uh they don't deserve, they don't get the credit that they deserve a lot of times.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so it excites me to see that Professor Bodder's name is you know really uh well acknowledged and it's well respected because this is the this is the kind of stuff that changes um lives.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then like you said, you know, I know that burns are a problem in third world countries and and whatnot, but it's you have to be able to use technologies in a way that everyone can benefit so then they can take it to different levels, right?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like one person can't do everything, but if you are able to influence enough people, then that is in itself going to ignite change and it's going to ignite you know new discoveries and new innovations and accessibility and and whatnot.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I I really appreciate you answering that question and I appreciate your insight.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just have one more question for you, Charles, and that's really about all the uh entrepreneurs out there that are very much interested in science.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: They they love the science of skin and you know, any advice you can give them in terms of the business aspect of starting a line or you know, just carrying forward their already existing line, um, any words of wisdom you have for them?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, yeah, I mean it that that's uh it's it's a it's a it's um um I I don't want to sound arrogant as if you know we we have so much again experience and and and and recipe to to know really how to uh advise other people, but uh but what I would say I would say again is I think uh I I think it's a it's an industry obviously that that is uh very competitive, that that has a lot of products, and therefore um I think trying to be authentic to the root of a project and the intention from day one is important.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: So if someone created a skincare brand because that person is passionated about uh you know natural skincare or whether it's medical skincare or both together, like we are trying to do, um I think you know the the the consumer will and and the journalist and everyone who has the voice will recommend the products if they see that that there is good intentions behind it and kind of honest um you know uh process behind it.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because we live in a world where people need to to understand the the story and and relate to that story.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we you know we we we all probably brands have a better chance, I think, today to to exist, especially in industries where a lot of big groups are present and take a huge again, their presence is is really big, and therefore to have a voice, I think the the story needs to resonate a little bit.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I agree with you, and I think that's excellent advice.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think whatever we do should be from a good place and from a true understanding.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much, um Charles.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so lovely and such an honor to host you.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so so honored to host the line in general.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, please give my regards to Professor Botter.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I am such a fan, um, you know, in the truest sense, in the in the nerdiest sense, you could say.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I, you know, again, thank you so much.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for your time.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 35:36
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• 36:43
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