Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of Black Orchid (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of Black Orchid (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife and do it quicker,
• 0:35
  quicker Looking back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife.
• 0:41
  The Doctor Who Commentary's podcast What a ripping time
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  we're going to be having today with me, Fraser Gregory and my
• 0:48
  host Joe Ford. Say hi, Joe.
• 0:54
  Come over to the house and meet the Mater.
• 0:56
  It'll be dropping. Oh God, you are smutty as well,
• 1:02
  aren't you? I will be smutty.
• 1:08
  What? There was a fellow here.
• 1:10
  First class battle of Demon Bola.
• 1:15
  What could we be talking about? It can only be one thing.
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  It can only be season nineteens 2 part epics tale of cricket,
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  doppeldangers, screwdrivers and the Buffy.
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  Blackhawk. I love a buffet.
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  I'm so jealous of Patrick. He's just sitting there picking
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  out for the entire story. Yeah.
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  Can I ask you a couple of questions before we start?
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  Because you and I have only touched.
• 1:49
  No, we don't do that on the show.
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  Oh, do we not? No.
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  How are we going to learn anything then?
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  It's it's not the format of the show asking questions.
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  No, it's just people coming on and giving their obscene
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  opinions. That's what we're aiming for.
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  Go on then. I'll let you on this occasion
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  ask 2 questions. Well, we've done.
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  We only ever touched Davidson once before haven't we?
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  We've Mordren and this, haven't we?
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  So I don't. I haven't really explored what
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  you think about. The overall era, and certainly I
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  know nothing at all about what you think about this season.
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  And that's unusual because I've been talking to you for a long
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  time now and I know a lot of what you think about Doctor Who.
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  So where does 19 fall for you? How do you think they did?
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  I think 19 is is very similar to season four in that, you know,
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  it takes a while for them to get going.
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  I think, you know, you look at season four, it takes Patrick
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  Trouten a little while to figure out what he's doing with the
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  rule. He knows what he's doing.
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  He's an actor and it takes him a little while to figure out what
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  his doctor's going to look like and how he's going to behave.
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  And I think Peter Davidson is the same, You know, you know,
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  this is this season's famous for being filmed out of order.
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  So, you know, by you watch Castro Valva, it's a lot more
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  formed what his doctor's looking like.
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  You look at the ones that he's phone first, so you look at the
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  visitation, you know, doomsday, you know it's you can say he's
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  very much finding his feet, he's sketching out what he's going to
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  do. I think the visitation is lifted
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  immensely by his performance. You know, he's he's got an air
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  of about two inches away from losing his shit through.
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  About I know Janet Thurman is always saying you're horrible to
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  your companions. You know when they're watching
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  these things on behind the sofa, yeah.
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  So it takes him a little while to find his sweet things on.
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  When we get to black organ, I think he's got it.
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  I think he knows pretty much where he's going, but it's kind
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  of like the back end of the season, so he hasn't got really
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  that much to do. I think you know you you're
• 4:01
  going to season 20 and he's got a lot, you know, lock clear,
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  right. This is, this is my doctor.
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  My doctor is very compassionate. He's very naturalistic.
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  He's very he's. Quite subtle, isn't he?
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  Yeah, but he's sarcastic as well.
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  There's a very, you know, sardonic line through the Doctor
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  into season 20 and that goes into season 21 as well.
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  By season 21, he's remember, he's decided he's leaving.
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  He's, you know, he's done his three years he's he's off.
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  So he kind of takes the gloves off a little bit and he really
• 4:34
  plays into what he wants to do with the role.
• 4:37
  He's like, yeah, I'm going to play it that sod on its side
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  massively. I will say he's got zero folks
• 4:44
  to give attitude. I've just put them up Well,
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  jolly good. Now you can take them down and
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  down again. Yeah, I want a finely tuned
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  response to the situation and nothing's going to stop me.
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  Now starts so. Much darker in 21.
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  Yeah, yeah. I always feel like he's like the
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  one force of positivity in the universe, pushing against all
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  the death. Yeah, absolutely.
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  He's he's given a lot more stuff to get his teeth into when it's
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  you know I think it's been said many times before that you know
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  if he'd if he'd had the material in season 20 that he has in
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  season 21 he would make it like around he would have stuck
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  around and said no this is actually worth his doing and.
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  Then I wouldn't have had Mark Collin though, so I can't
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  possibly approve of that. Well, there you go.
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  That's always the problem with what if and who isn't it?
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  Because you, you change something.
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  It's a butterfly effect, isn't it?
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  You change something in Season 2 and it not, you know, it would
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  change. Yeah, because now I do the rest
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  of McCoy. I never used to, but now I love
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  him and I so I always used to be like, well, what would it have
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  been like if Carmel had scripted it to Con in Baker?
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  But then we lose McCoy and so maybe everything's just good how
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  it is. But the in contrast to 21,
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  there's a lightness and. A sort of a optimism I find in
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  season 19. There is until something
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  happens. I was going to say that and
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  that's, but it's almost as if that's like a palate cleanser to
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  lower you into a full sense of security and then that hears and
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  it's like the biggest knife frost we've had in in some time,
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  yes. And then that knife thrust we
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  are talking about is I would. That's right.
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  Certainly not Matthew Warhouse's departure from the series.
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  Yeah, we'll talk about Adric as we go.
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  What's weird is, well though I find with 19 is it is going back
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  to basics and there there are some complex stories in there,
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  but there are some very simple stories in there as well like
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  this. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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  And even though it goes through bid Meade and Anthony Roux and
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  Eric's award, it doesn't feel like it's a design season.
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  And I know it wasn't. In that you've got the three
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  companions. They're also getting to know
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  each other. We've got a bit of history.
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  We've got a sort of weird sideways adventure.
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  With Kinder. It's doing all the things that
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  Doctor Who can do. I feel like.
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  I just feel like Davidson era starts on the right track of of,
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  like, total optimism. The future's going to be Grant.
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  This is a great part of that because it's a weird it's like a
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  little interlude between the most traditional of Doctor Who's
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  stories. And then the probably the most
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  dynamic of classic Doctor Who stories, and certainly the most
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  shocking. And in between that you have
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  this very cute period piece, the first pure historical since.
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  Help me out, Highlanders. A long time.
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  Yeah. So why did you choose this one?
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  It's it's a little bit undervalued, I feel.
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  I think, you know, it's one of these ones where you look at the
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  stories around it and people have a lot more to say about the
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  other stories in in season 19. So you have you have obviously
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  Earth shock, which is the big one that everyone loves, because
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  it's it's Cybermen and it's grim, which directing isn't it?
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  Yeah, it's seawood, you know, doing what people like, say what
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  to do and after it gets blown up at the end.
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  So that's not the big one that people like, you know, got
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  Castro valve at the start, which is another.
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  You know, it's a bit meat story. So you know, a bit meat fan.
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  You've got that one there for you to enjoy.
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  So that gets talked about a lot time Flight obviously gets
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  talked about for the wrong reasons because it's very good.
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  You've got the visitation as well, which has its fans.
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  You know it has its fans. It's 22 episodes too long, to be
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  honest. Or it has its detractors as
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  well, though I think sort of coming out of the woodwork more
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  and more, I think, you know, there's nothing, you know,
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  fundamentally wrong with the visitation, but there's just
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  nothing. There's this things that could
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  have been, could have been a lot more right about it.
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  It's very slight that the location work pops on the
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  Blu-ray, though it's gorgeous. The middle two episodes are just
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  Patrick and Nessa building vibrate.
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  I don't object. There's lots of running around
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  as well, you know. I think you know with a bit of
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  better script than the Visitation.
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  You know if you move this story to London in episode 3.
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  In London, yeah, you've got an absolute classic on your hands
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  there. And Fort the Doomsday is scrappy
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  and you know, it is what it is. It's just a, you know, a product
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  of a production team and cast all finding a way of working
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  together, so. I think we can probably say with
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  some confidence that Terrace Dudley was a lot more
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  comfortable right in this little period piece than he was right
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  in a piece of science fiction. Absolutely.
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  You know, your Kinder, which is, you know, really quite, quite
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  out there. So you know, all these other
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  stories get talked about either, you know, for being really good
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  or really, really bad and black walk.
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  It just kind of gets left in the middle of it, just left to its
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  own devices. But I mean that that's the store
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  in a nutshell though, isn't it? The Doctor and the TARDIS team
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  just got left in the middle of nowhere, left of the own devices
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  and get the crack on and have a bit of fun.
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  There's a phrase that Nathan bosomly coined when we do the
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  Star Trek podcast, and that is hang time.
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  And he loves it when we just hang with the regular characters
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  in a Star Trek show. And this episode one of Black
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  Orchid is the epitome of Doctor Who hangs.
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  We don't do it very often. There's always a plot getting in
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  the way, isn't there? That's a very good phrase.
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  That isn't it. Well, it's a smart cookie.
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  It's very clever that Nathan isn't.
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  The last thing I wanted to just ask you about before we go in is
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  how do you feel about the regular cast minor Sarah Sutton,
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  and how horrid they are about this story?
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  Because Davidson and Fielding rip this story to shreds at any
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  opportunity they possibly can and they genuinely mean it as
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  well. They do it on the behind the
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  sofa. They do it on the commentary.
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  And I do think it's a bit wearying.
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  Yeah. I mean, to be honest, I haven't
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  listened to the commentary. Have I watched the behind the
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  sofa? I'm not entirely sure.
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  But, you know, I mean, we do, you know, me and you were
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  talking about this off make before we start recording.
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  You know, I don't have time for negativity in my life, Joe.
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  You know, I've, I've got a full time job.
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  I work 12 hour shifts. I've got two kids at school.
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  I've got the one with additional leads.
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  I've got two rabbits, three rabbits in me shed.
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  I've got two dogs to look after. You've got two needy best
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  friends. Oh, God, yeah.
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  But, you know, look after them the best I can.
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  And, you know, I don't have time to be sitting and listening and
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  watching people kind of tearing things that I like.
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  It can be fun, but I feel like they tip.
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  They tip the edge too often. It can be.
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  Like we bought this because we find it enjoyable.
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  Exactly. Why are you just ripping it to
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  pieces? I think, I think Janet Fielden
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  and Peter Davison have that sort of relationship together, you
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  know, where they do sort of spark off each other.
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  And, you know, I've met Janet Fielden earlier this year and
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  she's a delight. You know, she was an absolute
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  highlight of me trip to to Leicester and she's just got
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  such a positive energy about her that's really quite infectious.
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  You know if anyone gets the opportunity to meet Janet
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  Fielden, I would take it because it's just it was just a so you
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  know what part of that is is a sort of like I don't know if
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  it's like a death self deprecating sort of things.
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  You put her and Peter Davison together in the both.
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  You know there's there's a lot of that sardonic side in Peter
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  Davison. And you know you see those those
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  wonderful pictures of where he's you know in a convention with
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  his his Soninlaw holding up a sign saying he's not that you
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  know you get that edge you get a sight woman you think you know.
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  Yeah. So if I am going to listen to
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  the the company, if I'm going to watch the and they're going to
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  be ripping into it, then you know how much of it is is
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  genuine and how much of it is just sort.
• 13:17
  Of putting it on dry, dry wit, really.
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  What's annoying is on the behind the sofa you got Sarah Sutton
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  there who loves his story because finally she's given
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  something to do and she's doing a dual role and she's having fun
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  with it and she likes period pieces and they're basically
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  just sitting there saying, no, you're wrong, this is shit and
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  that's just not fun. That ain't fun.
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  So yeah, it's a it's a very bizarre thing.
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  Whereas Daveson loves the visitation.
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  So I'm like, well, are you as yeah, I mean, I say.
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  Creatively savvy is all suspected.
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  He doesn't go turning the visitation.
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  I really like that. That side of his doctor that is
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  just sort of like, you know, being pushed and he's like just
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  one minute away from, you know, there's an edge to him in there.
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  It's a different type of edge than what you get, so so I like
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  his performance in the visitation.
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  Like I said, just needs a bit of a tweak with the plot.
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  Well, let's go and try and unearth a plot in black hole
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  hit, shall we? Oh, it's that easy.
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  And have some fun on the cricket lawn while we're there.
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  Whose count is it? Oh, you signed.
• 14:24
  I'll do it. And 5432?
• 14:30
  One let's go chaps. How's that?
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  There's devil coming out the store field that were all fresh
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  faced. Listen.
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  So delight about this is all these characters that are
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  usually each other's throats. They're so chill.
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  That's why I love Tegan's having a great time.
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  Flirting, dancing, drinking. Yeah, that's because she's got a
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  couple of screwdrivers, isn't it?
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  I'm not saying a word. I'll certainly hope she didn't
• 15:00
  end up sleeping with that old gitch she's dancing with.
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  Wow, they're not dancing. Man is choking.
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  So there you go. That's right.
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  Death and destruction straight from the start.
• 15:11
  Hi, Eric. Oh, actually, I'm.
• 15:14
  Going to start with a complaint, is that right?
• 15:16
  Oh, go on then. Well, I just feel like the score
• 15:19
  for this, it needed to ditch. The Radio Phonic workshop and
• 15:22
  just have the piano score. There's some like scifi music in
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  this and I'm like, no, no, this is a historical, just do
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  instruments, Yeah, I think the, the heavy breathing and the
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  gurglings a bit that goes on is a little bit.
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  Like I said, I'm not saying a word.
• 15:42
  Who is this sinister man tied up on the bed?
• 15:47
  Stop it. Oh, I love story set on trains.
• 15:52
  We missed a bit of a trick here. The TARDIS should have landed on
• 15:55
  the train. Which one does it do?
• 15:57
  It's like tests last night, the towers and it went on the train.
• 16:02
  Gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous.
• 16:04
  There's a book 8 is a Wasps. You know where the Doctor fights
• 16:07
  a WASP man on top of a train? What about power?
• 16:10
  The Doctor as well, yeah. I love it all, baby.
• 16:14
  Oh, look, that's Tegan. Just change your mind.
• 16:15
  She wants to stay with them now. She doesn't want to go back to.
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  I did say Fraser, I wanted to stay with the crew for a while.
• 16:25
  They do feel very relaxed with each other.
• 16:26
  Now this is, this is the result of having done five or six
• 16:29
  stories together. But I just like, like, it's
• 16:34
  almost like Dudley is responding to his treatment of Tegan in
• 16:37
  fourth doomsday, where she's so abrasive, it's somewhere
• 16:40
  ridiculous. And here he just writes her like
• 16:43
  a person. They're all written as as people
• 16:48
  in this. I mean I'd Rick is is you know
• 16:51
  probably more insufferable in Fort of Doomsdale in anyone
• 16:54
  else? Could you pass the Sergeant
• 16:56
  chloride please It's you know it's you know maybe maybe he's
• 17:02
  with Anita. Thanks Eric.
• 17:03
  Say with a little bit, then for. Toning it down a bit yeah.
• 17:06
  Or killing off. Well, for maybe he's you know
• 17:09
  smoothing out some of the dialogue in in this and you know
• 17:13
  not making you know smoothing those characters out and making
• 17:17
  them a bit more likeable rather than what would what had gone
• 17:19
  before. You know what's a joy is how
• 17:22
  we're suddenly remembering these alien characters on Earth so
• 17:25
  they don't understand anything. And this goes what a very silly
• 17:30
  activity. Or when they're watching the
• 17:32
  cricket, they look at it, you know, absolutely bewildered.
• 17:36
  But you know the doctor with these hats and he's oh, I want
• 17:39
  always wanted to drive a train as it was when I was a boy.
• 17:43
  And the cheek of this line in a minute about the Master.
• 17:47
  You are the Master, aren't you? Oh, look, J and T's finally got
• 17:54
  his wish. And the Tegan is catching on
• 17:55
  that fabulous haircut that she's got.
• 17:57
  The Do you know what? How refreshing is it for
• 18:01
  Sarasota? This.
• 18:03
  This too far. I mean it's it's, it's one of
• 18:07
  the cute things about the season is because no one knows what to
• 18:09
  do with with the characters and it's, I mean, it is the fault of
• 18:15
  the producer, John Nathan Tuna, because he has.
• 18:16
  Actually he has just went. No, we haven't, Tegan.
• 18:20
  No we haven't this, no we haven't.
• 18:21
  Everyone and I drink and. Oh no, Is that.
• 18:25
  Didn't he say he didn't quite trust the transition, So he
• 18:27
  wanted like a team to help smooth that over.
• 18:30
  I put the team brand new. You know, it's not like if it
• 18:33
  was Romano and K9 and Adric and yeah, and, you know, you could
• 18:37
  understand that. But he's essentially right.
• 18:38
  I'm bringing in a new team to bringing a new companion in the
• 18:42
  regeneration story and I'm bringing back, you know, your
• 18:46
  other companion is someone that was just in the one before that
• 18:48
  you didn't think was going to be a companion but is now after two
• 18:50
  episodes, it's. Like, they are utterly disparate
• 18:54
  characters. They belong in completely
• 18:56
  different shows. And yet somehow come this story,
• 19:00
  I'm totally on board with the regulars.
• 19:02
  Yeah. And it's it's the current as
• 19:05
  that GNT once you know he wants the the child genius you know he
• 19:10
  was places It's funny because he kind of like replaces K9 with
• 19:14
  Adric you know. But you know Adric doesn't work
• 19:19
  so he gets rid of him and he replaces him with Turlo.
• 19:22
  Yeah. Another ball genius really.
• 19:25
  You know you've got Nissa who gets replaced for you know
• 19:27
  eventually is you know Nissan, Adric are sort of merged in the
• 19:30
  turtle. You've got that that character
• 19:34
  who is the the alien child genius.
• 19:38
  Replacing a dark haired bloke with a redhead?
• 19:41
  Yeah, I can't see that catching on somehow.
• 19:43
  Do you know it's a private joke between me and Fraser?
• 19:48
  No one else will get. That all depends on the redhead,
• 19:51
  to be honest. As long as he's got a beer and a
• 19:54
  podcast called Too Much, you were fine, Smutty said.
• 19:59
  He'd send a useful, but Michael Cochran is giving a great
• 20:02
  performance in this. I mean, I don't think it's
• 20:04
  challenging for him to sort of rise up to this upper class
• 20:08
  toff, but it is great. But it's, I mean, what I like
• 20:12
  is, you know, the, the went out from the start and the doctor is
• 20:15
  a cricketer, you know, Castro of Oliver, he spots the cricket
• 20:19
  changing room, spots the bat, you know, he's dressed as a
• 20:22
  cricketer throughout his entire time, you know.
• 20:26
  So yeah, make him, let him play cricket.
• 20:29
  Actually let him, you know, give him a match.
• 20:31
  And of course, he's the best man there.
• 20:35
  Look here, in fact, I always say that Davidson is not a very
• 20:38
  commanding Dr. This might be the most commanding he ever is.
• 20:42
  He's a first class bat and a demon bowler apparently, as
• 20:47
  well. Davidson's so happy.
• 20:48
  The one nice thing he says in the commentary is the bit where
• 20:52
  he how do you say it gets something, You know, when he
• 20:55
  gets the ball, the ball into the wicket, he strucks him out or
• 20:59
  whatever it is that was. That would thank you.
• 21:01
  Oh my God, I'm so gay That that was genuine.
• 21:06
  That like you can see it's genuine because the camera
• 21:08
  swings around, but he's so happy that he actually got somebody
• 21:11
  out. Oh God, Barbara Murray as well.
• 21:17
  Lady Cranley. What a bitch.
• 21:19
  Worcestersha Fraser, you must be a Worcestersha frickery.
• 21:25
  Worcestersha sauce maybes, but not Oh no, The hunt isn't good
• 21:28
  enough, I believe. Oh, I love all this stuff.
• 21:33
  She ain't got a clue. Look at yourself.
• 21:34
  She ain't got a clue what she's talking about.
• 21:37
  Yeah, no one's actually, like, stopping us here, by the way.
• 21:40
  You look just like his missus. You know when me, you and Sy met
• 21:45
  for the first time, 3P's in a pod?
• 21:49
  Positively, 3P's in a pod. Do you like hang time then?
• 21:57
  Yeah, absolutely. You know, because that that's
• 22:00
  the beauty of the story is you know there's a there's not, you
• 22:06
  know, earth shattering invasion. You know, the timeline's not
• 22:10
  getting messed up or anything. You know, there's the only
• 22:13
  danger is to a couple of toffs in the house basically.
• 22:16
  You know, if that just lets the the the cast, that's the
• 22:23
  characters just enjoy themselves.
• 22:26
  And you say there's there's a lot of kind of bitter in this is
• 22:30
  someone posted a screenshot of the Terminus Hi sy info text
• 22:37
  from the the recent box set. You know, when he says you know
• 22:40
  Eric Saywood's idea of Padden was just to get, you know, two
• 22:43
  regular cast members to argue about something inconsequential.
• 22:47
  So there's a lot of that that goes on, but you know, so it's
• 22:50
  just so refreshing to actually see everyone enjoying themselves
• 22:54
  because everyone gets. It's a bit of time.
• 22:56
  It's sure leave, isn't it? The wall.
• 22:58
  Shore leave. Yeah, quiet.
• 23:00
  One of them didn't die. There's so much jeopardy in this
• 23:05
  era, sometimes false jeopardy. But there's so much like it's we
• 23:08
  always skip from one set piece to another in the Davidson era
• 23:11
  of you know, he's going to have his head cut off or something
• 23:14
  like that. There's just no time for this to
• 23:17
  to just chill out and have a breather.
• 23:20
  And I think maybe they should have done this once a year.
• 23:26
  Drink. Yeah, I would have liked to say
• 23:28
  a bit more of it. I don't.
• 23:29
  I don't think maybe stick the whole episode, but the whole
• 23:32
  story of them just chilling maybes, you know, just more, you
• 23:37
  know rather than you know, padding with arguments.
• 23:40
  Why not pad? If you need a pad, why don't you
• 23:42
  pad with them having a lovely time.
• 23:43
  Take Five Doctors for example. The start of the Five Doctors
• 23:48
  where what are Turtle? Tegan and the Doctor do with the
• 23:53
  eye of Horizon? You know I have Ryan.
• 23:58
  The horizon of the eye of Ryan, you know, chilling out.
• 24:01
  So there's room in just annual stores.
• 24:04
  Maybe there's more of that than I think if I go looking.
• 24:07
  Oh yeah, they pop off to Lanzarote, didn't they, in
• 24:11
  Planet of Fire. Yeah, yeah, sit in a cafe and
• 24:15
  have a drink. Yeah, so the the more of that
• 24:19
  rather than just you know, squabbling over where where
• 24:23
  we've landed or. Maybe we haven't landed or
• 24:27
  something like that would would hold yourself a Time Lord
• 24:30
  Fraser. A broken book.
• 24:31
  It's time. Better than you.
• 24:33
  I won't do the whole thing but yeah I get.
• 24:35
  I get the idea. But I also like small scale
• 24:38
  stories as well. I like it when like you said,
• 24:41
  the only thing that really is in danger is this small family.
• 24:44
  It's the same reason I like something like Androids and
• 24:46
  Tara. It feels sort of small scale.
• 24:48
  It's not a universe destroying for it and that's the same
• 24:51
  reason I like something like Unicorn and the Wasp because
• 24:54
  it's just that group of characters that are in.
• 24:56
  So yeah, I like that. So.
• 24:59
  With the alien menace, it's it's a bit more like Unicorn.
• 25:01
  The wasp is like if the Waspy creature thing gets out, it's
• 25:04
  going to. This feels very Unicorn, the
• 25:06
  wasp to me. Do you know look at Barbara
• 25:09
  Murray and then look at Felicity Kendall I.
• 25:12
  Got that, Christie? Isn't it?
• 25:14
  It's but it's appeared that the BBC does very well.
• 25:18
  You know, I, I TV probably do it better nowadays.
• 25:22
  Now they've got Downtown Abbey. Well, tell me if I'm mad, right?
• 25:26
  But something, thank you. Something about Season 19.
• 25:30
  The sets feel vast. This house feels enormous.
• 25:35
  The sets in four to Doomsday feel massive, and they're in no
• 25:38
  bigger studio than the sets in Season 20 and season 18.
• 25:43
  I just feel like there's a designer in there somewhere
• 25:46
  that's really capitalizing on the space that they've got.
• 25:50
  Absolutely. I mean cast of Vulva.
• 25:53
  As well you know, Formula Doomsday, they've got levels.
• 25:56
  You know, you've got characters going up and down stairs.
• 25:59
  You know what it is. I think it's JNC.
• 26:01
  Before the complacency kicked in, you think that he was
• 26:04
  determined that the show is going to look as good as
• 26:07
  possible. Yeah, I think maybe come time
• 26:08
  flight is like. I think it's it's probably a
• 26:13
  little bit. I mean jnt gets.
• 26:20
  It's kind of Lord doesn't he for being the man that could get the
• 26:23
  most value for money. So he could get you could
• 26:26
  squeeze his budget and he could rinse an extra you know bit here
• 26:29
  and a bit there out of it to and put it all on the screen.
• 26:32
  But it kind of falls down when you kind of think he's he's
• 26:35
  management. His budget management is clearly
• 26:37
  not not the best when you do get the time flight.
• 26:39
  And it's certain stories, isn't it?
• 26:42
  He can find money for certain stories, but then the the the
• 26:44
  purse is empty. Yeah, yeah, You know, it's it's
• 26:47
  the kind of thing that's that Graham Williams gets.
• 26:51
  You know, pulled up on, you know, the start of his.
• 26:54
  He didn't have a purse. No.
• 26:56
  Well, he did. It was just it's got smaller and
• 26:58
  smaller as the months went on. You could have some black drapes
• 27:01
  and that's it. Can I ask you about the the
• 27:05
  exposition that was just dumped there, quite subtly awful.
• 27:08
  But I want to see what you think where they're talking about the
• 27:11
  Black Hole kid, about the brother, and about how he was
• 27:14
  engaged to an it feels like just sort of natural conversation.
• 27:17
  It does, and I think no one. You know, The funny thing is
• 27:21
  that no one actually stops to question it and go hang on, hang
• 27:24
  on. It's not a bit weird.
• 27:27
  It's your brother's fiance. Is now your fiance?
• 27:33
  OK, that's that's how the upper classes rule.
• 27:36
  It means we've gone off 2, technically, we've got two sort
• 27:38
  of Michael Cochran's, and we've got 2 Sarah Suttons in this
• 27:41
  story, don't we? And we've got Davis and bending
• 27:44
  down to look into a mirror where you come with that.
• 27:49
  Does that in Castro. Volvo as well.
• 27:51
  Thank God for that. Jesus Christ, Davis is very
• 27:57
  pretty. You know I love this I.
• 27:59
  Just look in the mirror. Is that dancing, Fraser?
• 28:08
  Where I come from, it's much more formalized.
• 28:11
  Joe, I've had a ripping idea. What's that?
• 28:14
  Me and you should dress as butterflies together.
• 28:17
  I'm there for it now. Nobody, but nobody will be able
• 28:22
  to tell us a time to. I've never noticed that made
• 28:27
  before. You can still notice new things.
• 28:32
  Tegan is having a Tegan. Sorry, Tegan is having a grand
• 28:35
  old time in this story. Look at her, smiling her red
• 28:37
  off. Well, she's got out that bloody
• 28:39
  uniform and she's had it on for. Hang on, because Mark worked
• 28:43
  this out and it's like 2 weeks in the timeline of Tegan this
• 28:46
  whole series, so she's had it on for about whether she's like a
• 28:49
  week in a hall, she must Hulk. Wasn't she?
• 28:51
  I mean, she's had a bath, She's had a cocktail, actually,
• 28:54
  Fraser, what do you do with a cocktail in a bath?
• 28:56
  How do you drink it? Of course.
• 29:04
  Right. Sorry.
• 29:08
  Would you keep cutting back to the sinister man, though?
• 29:10
  So just his legs going about the house.
• 29:16
  Yeah, I do want to talk to you about that actually, in episode
• 29:18
  2, because I know somebody you, we have a mutual friend who this
• 29:22
  is his least favorite Doctor Who story because of a certain
• 29:27
  representation that's going on here.
• 29:28
  So we'll address that in Part 2. There's too much fun in Part 1
• 29:31
  to get too serious. Yeah, Davidson's got his kid off
• 29:34
  now. He's a dressing gown.
• 29:36
  The Doctor is in a dressing gown.
• 29:39
  The only other time I can remember that happening is the
• 29:43
  Christmas Invasion. Yeah, maybe we did put we wear a
• 29:47
  dressing gown once. Oh yeah, you did.
• 29:50
  We had a shower. Oh, that's right.
• 29:52
  Yeah, you always see his ass in that story.
• 29:55
  Put we had a shower, Capaldi put his nightie on, didn't he?
• 30:02
  In deep breath. Look at that side of salmon,
• 30:04
  Fraser. It's a good spring.
• 30:08
  I know, I know. This cuts between the very windy
• 30:12
  day and the very sunny day that they had.
• 30:15
  Oh, I think it's the morning in the afternoon.
• 30:17
  The weather's atrocious, isn't it?
• 30:19
  It does look cold. Look.
• 30:22
  Even our drinks managed to get out of these jammies, but he's
• 30:25
  still got his badge pinned to his new tunic.
• 30:29
  I think Sarah Sutton looks beautiful in that busfly
• 30:31
  costume. Yeah, both of her.
• 30:35
  It actually. It irritates me a little bit
• 30:37
  because I know from the Big Finish audios that Sarah Sutton
• 30:40
  had a huge amount to offer as an actress and I think they tapped
• 30:44
  into it maybe 15% of what she had to offer.
• 30:48
  Well, this is, this is the problem.
• 30:50
  You know, she's coming in, you know, as a last minute edition.
• 30:54
  Obviously she's she's written out of kinder because they
• 30:58
  couldn't figure out the way right now in in time.
• 31:01
  So she's literally. You know, put to sleep.
• 31:04
  Not like a pet, but put to sleep in in kinder.
• 31:07
  This is missing from there. She just there's not enough room
• 31:11
  for her Earth shock. She gets bumped in the TARDIS
• 31:15
  and she with lines like, I want things to settle down before we
• 31:19
  go out. That's taken care of her for
• 31:21
  another 10 minutes. You know she and it's only a
• 31:25
  couple of couple of stories in the season 20 before she's off.
• 31:31
  Often our jolly's in Terminus, but you know, I'm going to say
• 31:33
  something crazy because Anne is such a fun character because
• 31:37
  she's so hysterical. She's the opposite of Nissa.
• 31:39
  And this is so sort of unemotional and and sort of
• 31:43
  subtle and Anne is melodramatic. And I have to know if I wouldn't
• 31:48
  have minded, you know, if it had been Anne instead of Nissa.
• 31:51
  So Sarah Sutton could have just gone to town.
• 31:53
  Oh, a ghastly frog in, you know, in 4th of.
• 31:56
  Tuesday and stuff like this. The Victoria of the Davis in
• 32:01
  here? I wouldn't you.
• 32:01
  Have you ever heard the Peter Lou massacre, the Big Finish
• 32:04
  story? So that's it's a bit like the
• 32:06
  mass, the massacre. There's a huge massacre.
• 32:08
  She's got very close to a woman who is pregnant and that woman
• 32:14
  dies in the massacre. And one of the cliffhangers is
• 32:16
  Sarah Sutton expressing to the person who started the massacre
• 32:20
  that that woman has died and she's lost her baby.
• 32:23
  It's so powerful. And I'm like we could have, I've
• 32:27
  been utilizing this, you know? Yeah, but you, you get what kind
• 32:32
  of playing, You know, talk to him.
• 32:33
  What if you'd have to realistically get rid of
• 32:36
  someone? And fair enough, it probably
• 32:39
  would be Adric. Because let's be honest, what
• 32:42
  does Adric bring into the story? Oh, nothing at all.
• 32:45
  I mean, it's cute, it's a button and it's sort of pirate costume,
• 32:48
  but nothing at all. Now he has about 10 lines in the
• 32:51
  whole thing. Half of them are about the
• 32:53
  buffet. I mean, I get it.
• 32:56
  I do get it. I love a buffet.
• 32:57
  I do love a buffet, and that is a good buffet.
• 33:00
  Now can you tell me what those lips are all about?
• 33:02
  You know that thing and then fellow's mouth.
• 33:04
  It's. It's something to do with.
• 33:07
  It's tribal, isn't it? Yeah.
• 33:08
  South of the moment in tribal. I'd love to learn.
• 33:11
  Can someone ask us please and tell us?
• 33:14
  Educate us please. I shall Google in the break and
• 33:17
  see if we can find that out. And the trouble is Paul Peter
• 33:20
  Davison's house just running around the corridors going, oh
• 33:23
  why do I let my curiosity get the better of me?
• 33:26
  But we kind of need all this to show how the fella is going from
• 33:31
  place to place, murdering people to Nick in the costumes.
• 33:37
  I actually think it's that quite a neat bit of writing this.
• 33:41
  I mean it's it's, it's the perfect length, you know?
• 33:43
  Couldn't be any longer than two. I mean, there's a few moments in
• 33:48
  two where I think logic goes out the window and we'll get there.
• 33:51
  But I mean, I don't think Logic's ever been in the window
• 33:54
  in the story to be honest. But that's the upper classes for
• 33:56
  you or in this series. I don't mean this season, I mean
• 34:00
  the series. Oh, I do love a country house.
• 34:04
  So you know, this is a Doctor Who's staple, isn't it?
• 34:06
  Like star Groves in image of the Fendal and Pyramus and Mars.
• 34:12
  We love a country manner. Here she goes.
• 34:16
  Ba ba ba ba. She's not bad, is she?
• 34:21
  She's quite light on her feet. Oh, it's so nice to see Janet
• 34:27
  Field and having fun. Isn't it though?
• 34:31
  Yeah, I watched King Stevens the other day as I'm working my way
• 34:33
  through the Blu-ray set. Chameleon comes in as hard as
• 34:35
  this fabulous robot and she just goes, oh, you can have my room
• 34:39
  for all our care. Why are you having fun?
• 34:42
  He's a big robot who walks. He doesn't need a roomie that
• 34:45
  just put me in the cupboard. He just sort of plugs himself in
• 34:48
  the wall, didn't. He cupboard with the Hoover.
• 34:52
  No, I'm bored. He can go in there, but again,
• 34:54
  in what if territory, They write Tegan with so much humor in the
• 34:58
  Big Finish stories. And I'll tell you what, Fraser,
• 35:01
  she's the best of the bunch. She's so fun.
• 35:04
  I mean, she's the best of the bunch on the telly as well, you
• 35:07
  know? In my opinion, you know, we're
• 35:09
  kind of talk about this when we're covered more than undead.
• 35:12
  And you know, Tegan brings something to the dynamic of the
• 35:17
  team. That's Adric, Nissan, Tirlo,
• 35:19
  don't, because you know, if you take Nissan out or you're left
• 35:26
  with Nissan, Adric, you know, space kids, you know, geniuses
• 35:29
  know what they're doing. You know, bringing Taylor as
• 35:32
  well, another space kid, another you know, knows how to fly the
• 35:34
  Tardis, all this sort of jazz. You know, where there's there's
• 35:38
  no one to kind of you know, for us to relate to from that to
• 35:46
  vend their frustration. So I do think they they take us
• 35:49
  too far a lot of the time. But again, you kind of need that
• 35:52
  because otherwise it is, it is, It goes very Star Trekkie of,
• 35:56
  you know, when she's really hysterical.
• 35:58
  I just go, I just shout the scream, oh, shut up, You know,
• 36:01
  if you don't enjoy it, go home. I was.
• 36:04
  Just trying to yeah. That's true.
• 36:08
  When she eventually does go home, she goes, I'm not having
• 36:11
  fun anymore. I'm leaving.
• 36:13
  Yeah, I think, I think you need that dynamic.
• 36:17
  You need someone to kind of, you know, have the old proposed view
• 36:20
  of actually this this isn't, you know, this isn't normal, this
• 36:23
  isn't right, this isn't good and kind of push back it.
• 36:27
  But you know, when Teegan goes and it's Nissar in Arkham
• 36:30
  Infinity, she is pushing back. She goes, no, Doctor, you're
• 36:33
  going to do all these repairs to the TARDIS.
• 36:35
  You've been putting this off long enough.
• 36:36
  And then she has some great moments in snake dance, you
• 36:39
  know, when they're trying to help her down from the rocks and
• 36:41
  she's like, thank you, that wasn't necessary and all it.
• 36:44
  So I think they could have done it with this.
• 36:46
  They just chose not to. I do think Sarah's a better
• 36:49
  actress, though. I think she's more accomplished.
• 36:55
  I'm going to argue too badly with that, but.
• 36:57
  Like I said, I was, you know, dynamically wise I would if you
• 37:00
  said you've got to lose one of these three and it wouldn't be
• 37:04
  Tegan, Tegan be the one. Well they did talk about this, I
• 37:08
  didn't they they chose Andrew, but it was going to be one of
• 37:11
  those two. So they're in shock with you,
• 37:12
  the production team at the time? The obvious choice because you
• 37:17
  know there's there's very few if any stories where I'd Rick
• 37:22
  actually gets used properly. Look how big that's it.
• 37:25
  Look, So Lucky got on about it. It feels like they're in a
• 37:28
  house. They're in Studio One of BBC
• 37:30
  Television Center. It feels like they're in a
• 37:32
  house. Oh, do you know what?
• 37:34
  There's something about that mask, that twisted parody of the
• 37:37
  human face, that really scares me.
• 37:42
  Masks must spook you to start with, and that's Fraser.
• 37:48
  Let me go, whoever you are. Oh, this poor fellow who comes
• 37:55
  in watch gets strangled. It's not supposed to be funny.
• 38:01
  It's very funny when she Oh yeah, look, oh.
• 38:06
  Flashing a bit of chest there. I think this is a great
• 38:09
  cliffhanger though, the the hands going for her throat.
• 38:12
  What we don't realize is, is this is her exfiance and he
• 38:17
  doesn't want to kill her, he just wants to pick her up.
• 38:20
  Well, it's not really a cheat then, is it?
• 38:24
  Well, it is because you know, at this point we don't know that.
• 38:28
  You know we don't, we don't know who who the man in the mask is,
• 38:32
  You know, we know it's not the Doctor because we've seen the
• 38:35
  Doctor and he's in his jam. He's walking around the house.
• 38:39
  We know it's not him, even though everyone else thinks it
• 38:42
  is so. But we don't know who it is at
• 38:43
  this point. We don't, you know, it's just
• 38:45
  some some man with heavy breathing that's been tied up in
• 38:50
  a bedroom buying Amazon. Importantly is we don't know if
• 38:53
  that's Ann or Nissa. Yes.
• 38:56
  Well, I mean, we assume, yeah, No, Nissa wouldn't be faking all
• 38:59
  over the place like that. Exactly.
• 39:01
  Exactly. You've got a kind of thing
• 39:03
  that's that's going to be because Nissa wouldn't.
• 39:07
  Nissa's a space bitch, according to Josh Schneez.
• 39:09
  Going around with a gun. You know so much for your
• 39:12
  justice and all of this. She certainly wouldn't be a a
• 39:15
  wilting flower in this, in this sort of position.
• 39:19
  That was delightful. It was good fun, wasn't it?
• 39:21
  It was like you say it's just hang time, just chilling with
• 39:25
  the crew. It's like a small What is it you
• 39:27
  have before you start a meal? What's that little appetizer?
• 39:31
  Moose Boosh, isn't it? You could have Moose Marbouche
• 39:35
  any day. I'm sorry.
• 39:36
  It's because you haven't done it yet.
• 39:41
  Sorry, sorry but no as like a starter before the main course
• 39:48
  the Azar shock. Unfortunately, the dessert is
• 39:51
  time flight and it's not very sweet.
• 39:55
  Should we skip dessert? Yeah, let's go straight to the
• 39:59
  coffee.