Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / The Practical Steps to DIYing Your Website with Katie Zana from Pearler

Transcript

The Practical Steps to DIYing Your Website with Katie Zana from Pearler · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  Let's take this show on the road. Imagine a world where gender equality is the norm and women have equal access to the same financial opportunities regardless of our personal circumstances. Hi, I'm Dune, founder of Female Startup Club and your personal hype girl. This is the pod for you. If you're starting a side hustle,
• 0:20
  scaling your biz or looking for inspo. We cover venture capital, personal finance, selling your biz and keeping your mental health in check from entrepreneurs like Refinery29's co-founder Piera Gelati and Ju Ru, who sold Hero Cosmetics for $650 million. Slide into my DMs if there's a question you want answered and let's get into today's episode.
• 1:02
  Welcome back to the Female Startup Club podcast. Today we are back with our Shopify and branding expert slash digital fairy, Katie Zana, to dive deeper into the essential strategies for building and optimizing your Shopify store. We are going to be focusing on a practical guide to getting your very first website live. Hey girl. Hey darling, how are you doing? Good.
• 1:32
  I'm so good. How are you doing? I'm really good. I'm excited to tuck in. How's the new place? You're in a new vibe. You're glowing. It's nature-y. I essentially live in a tree house. It is off-grid. We will see how the internet goes. So far, so good. Don't want to change it. Touching wood. I mean, it's the best internet I've experienced with you so far. So I'm like, hell yeah. Nature, nature it is. Good, good.
• 2:01
  So when did you move in? Last week, right? Last week. Yeah. Real fresh. Oh, how fun. I love the stage of like moving and then like unpacking and everything feeling really organized and finding the new home and like, you know, new homes for the cups or the plates or whatever. And then finding the new things that you're going to bring in.
• 2:21
  I know, I'd love to say it's going to be all vintage beautiful stuff, but there's an Ikea, urgent Ikea trip pending. Yeah, the urgent Ikea trip. Before we start, I want to go through a bit of an update. Let's talk about the good stuff on FSC's website and how it's going. I don't know what the update is, so everyone's hearing this at the same time as me.
• 2:48
  Yay. Well, it's been fun to actually go through the vibe that you started to create on your socials and secretly behind the scenes of like updating your general branding and branding.
• 3:04
  all those sorts of vibes. So we are really experimenting behind the scenes. Like yesterday you were sending me cool stuff that you'd made on mid journey and it's all like 3d and jelly. And so it's really fun to be in that phase, but also to try and
• 3:23
  translate, I suppose, cool things that we're doing on Canvas for social posts, does that actually translate to the website, like these cool sort of text outlines? So I'm sort of in a bit of a nitty gritty spot where I'm figuring out how to make sure that those vibes can actually work on the website. So sometimes a little bit of code magic. So I'm in that space that I'm laying foundations, if you will.
• 3:52
  Oh, amazing. How relevant. Laying the foundations. Love that. Cool. Well, I mean, I'm excited. We're all excited. And I guess let's move into this laying the foundations and kind of talking a little bit about what that actually means, especially when it comes to a practical sense. I feel like I'm such a practical person and I'm
• 4:14
  less conceptual. And so I'm like, Hey, what does it mean to lay the foundation of a website? And like, how are you actually doing that? And what are you actually doing to prepare to get a website build or launch ready? If you are a business owner pre-launch. Absolutely. I think this is a huge part about where people get stuck. And I really do think
• 4:41
  going on about branding being the step zero for website design, which is why I've sort of ended up becoming this, like I sort of put together a DIY branding process just to really lay it out for people. Because oftentimes, especially if you're doing a DIY website, you will get in there and be like, cool, I'm ready to go. But then you'll hit all these walls because you're like, oh, actually, what do I put there? What do I put there?
• 5:09
  There's so much stuff we have to do before we even start getting in there, doing a website or hiring a designer. So what I want people to think about is the branding universe. And let's be real, where we're at in 2024 is that when we're looking at so many brands on Instagram, for example, God, it seems like everyone's got four logos, huge color palettes,
• 5:35
  six fonts. I feel like, hang on, do I need all of that? And so that comparison is a real tricky one to sort of deal with and just figuring out what do I really need to get started? So not having too much, but not also going to the other end of the scale where once upon a time, you'd go to a web designer being like, here's my logo and I want a website. Right. And I also feel it's like,
• 6:04
  It's tricky because if you're thinking about brands on Instagram, that means that you've A, discovered them. So they're much further along than you are. B, they are generating sales and they have budget to do these six different logos and have everything polished. And it's like comparing yourself to a phase that is just so far ahead. And so I think it can be easy to put too much pressure on yourself to then be like,
• 6:28
  oh you know whereas you haven't looked actually where did that brand start what did they look like at the very start and not kind of thinking that everything has to be sorted from day one and being like okay cool like how can I just practically be like what is the basics that I need to sort out branding wise to be able to move forward with this and not kind of get lost in the comparison to a brand that's probably five years old.
• 6:57
  Absolutely. And, you know, throw in the trend of like, people are slowly becoming more maximalist. Love that for us. Love that for us. But it also presents like, you know, an extra layer of complexity when it comes to branding. And even me as a, someone who's been doing this for a long time, I still find it tricky because behind maximalism are actually like a lot of different rules. And that's what we're
• 7:24
  okay, if we have a black background, are we always going to have white text or pink text and what colour will the buttons be? And the logic of the design is where I have to really concentrate because I'm a designy person, but I don't find logic to it now and rules. Yeah, totally. And I imagine, like, for this current situation with us, I imagine, like,
• 7:46
  I'm probably a really challenging client because I definitely have specific ideas and thoughts and things that I love. And I try to articulate them. But of course, it's hard to understand what's in someone's brain. And I'm extremely picky, but I don't have the final vision either. And it's like...
• 8:05
  the balance of bringing to life what's in someone's brain who does have, you know, already a brand who is trying to evolve it, who is extremely maximalist and like, you know, in 700 million ADHD brain directions and then basically being like, okay, cool, let's get to the, let's,
• 8:23
  you know, yeah, build the principles and the rules and the other stuff. Not to discount what you're saying, but everything you are doing and saying is like completely normal. And that process, this is like kind of the sticky part. And like most people are like...
• 8:41
  I know what I want and I'm so grateful that you've come to me with actually such a clear vision and so much inspo. Like for me, I find that more helpful than less, like, you know, coming to me with less inspo. And like most of you, like, I just know I'm going to know it when I see it so I can go yes to that, no to that, yes to that. And that's fine. Right. So do you think for someone who's in that early phase of,
• 9:08
  is the best thing for someone to do in like a practical kind of first step is, is like mood board. It's like go and find the things that you like and then go one step further and dot point why you like that thing. Like, what is it about that picture that you'd like? Because you might see something totally different to what I see and miss the thing that I've had in my head, but I think that I've communicated it. So it like needs to be really clear. What is it about this image that I like or this mood board picture? Yeah.
• 9:37
  It really is like that. And so there are thankfully so many different tools out there. We're using a mix of Trello and Pinterest. But if you're just writing solo for the time being, that really initial exploratory phase, whether you have a brand new brand or you're, you know, reaching your existing brand is that
• 10:00
  dumping a whole lot of inspo into a Pinterest board, for example, and then really starting from there being like, okay, that's going to go in my little fonts section. That's going to go in my little colors section. And then you'll start to categorize it.
• 10:17
  And then once you start going, you're going to see some trends happening there. And it's a good idea to go, okay, now if I were to round it down and really look hard at each of those sections, I might pull some images out because I see what I was going for there, but it's actually not quite right.
• 10:34
  Right. It doesn't translate. Exactly. And so once you build that sort of inspo universe, whether it's you DIYing or whether it's you giving that stuff to the designer, the more comprehensive it is. And I don't mean like have 100 images per section, like that's too hard for everyone. But just a solid mood board with sections is really going to like...
• 10:59
  be a difference between like having an output that a designer does that she's like cool I really get what they're going for you versus like them having to guess and fill in the blanks themselves and then you're like hang on that's not what I wanted so prep prep prep is what the foundations is all about
• 11:20
  I think what I've kind of, I mean, I already knew this about myself and I probably said this last time we spoke, but now even further because, you know, you've sent me a couple of videos and like how it's working. And like when I log into Shopify, I see changes and things like that.
• 11:34
  I'm a creative. I understand the principles of what needs to happen, like technically, but I'm not that way inclined. And so it still surprises me how difficult it is. And like when you're showing me stuff, I'm like, well, how would I have been able to do that myself? Like it just wouldn't have been possible. So I'm like, is there a way to actually DIY it yourself? Like, is it possible or is it just so hard that you need to get someone else to do it for you? Well, that's as a creative. Yeah.
• 12:03
  Like, is it worth trying to upskill and watch a million YouTube videos or should you just pay someone to do it?
• 12:09
  Yeah, I think that we're at that, especially with anyone who's a solopreneur or has a really small team. The expectations that we're putting on ourselves to be able to DIY, everything is so intense. I think it's hard enough to learn a platform like Shopify or Squarespace. Not that they're hard platforms, but there is a learning curve. And if you're an adult, it is hard to be like...
• 12:33
  okay, I'm going to like learn this. I'm going to be a baby here and start from scratch. But when you're trying to combine that... And make space for it. Yeah, when you're trying to combine that with like building your own brand, especially something that's so close to your heart and it's been bouncing around in your head for God knows how long, that's a lot of pressure. So set your own expectations and be like, cool. All I need to do is come up with like...
• 13:00
  a palette and sometimes you just have to go like I have a little thing that you can buy for 50 bucks but you can just google like how many colors should be in my color palette okay well you should probably have a base color a background color and maybe three accents
• 13:17
  And so, cool, I'm going to go into my Pinterest board now and I'm going to use that little eyedropper tool on Canva. I'm going to throw one of my images in there because I love that orange. I'm going to throw that in Canva, use the eyedropper tool and be like, that's my accent color. I want that orange to be all over the place.
• 13:37
  And maybe your base colors are just black and white, but maybe they're just like a slightly very dark gray and a slightly off white. So in that sense, once you're just like, okay, cool, I've made myself a color palette, that's done.
• 13:52
  Like anyone is capable of that. It's just about breaking it up into pieces so it doesn't feel so scary and not going into the website platform, trying to like build a website before all your branding bits are figured out. Yeah.
• 14:08
  Got it. Got it. That's really good to know. I feel like what I've been doing a lot lately, and maybe you're doing this too, but I use chat GPT as my like thought partner. So, and I read someone call it thought partner the other day and I was like, Oh my God, that's exactly what it is to me. Like I'm just, I'm constantly on chat GPT on my phone or my computer or whatever. But for things like this,
• 14:29
  I'd be putting in the prompt of like, here's the context of who I am and why I'm not good at this. And I need you to be the person that tells me, you know, what framework I need to kind of start with here to like structure my thoughts. And then I need you to like, ask me the questions that you need so we can actually get started. And I would put all these things in and be like, what is my step-by-step checklist here? Like, where am I just starting? So it's a bit more manageable than being like,
• 14:54
  Like, I just don't even know. Like, I wouldn't have even thought, okay, let's start with the color palette first. You know what I mean? I thought mood board, but like then from there, what? And so like having something like chat TPT, just be like, here's 10 steps, like start there. You know? I have not done that. I am thinking myself that I haven't because certainly if you blessed and cursed with neurodivergence, that body doubling piece is...
• 15:18
  that can be achieved somewhat with GPT. I love that. So exactly, if it means like enlisting the robot to tell you how to break it down into steps, do it. Whatever makes it easier because I am not about people having like the most perfect experience
• 15:40
  design, website, all that kind of stuff. Because in the end, the people that come to me are like, mostly people that like have a business on their own. You will still be able to look professional, all that kind of stuff. But there is a certain level of acceptance around like, I'm not paying $80,000 plus whatever to get a full-blown agency to do my branding and my website and my this and my that.
• 16:05
  I had a friend get quoted $80,000. They haven't started. They haven't raised. And because it's their first time building a business, I was like, dude, you cannot spend $80,000 on this thing that you haven't tested, proven, got any single orders yet, even got inventory. Like that blew my mind. I feel like that's ethically not moral that someone's trying to sell you that. Like that's insane to me.
• 16:31
  Because you see these amazing agencies, I get it. It's like, but daddy, I love him. It's like, I know that, but that time will come if it's really successful and like you'll get there. So yeah, that's the next phase. That's a hundred steps in, girlfriend.
• 16:46
  What are some of the common mistakes that you see people doing at the very beginning? And that's obviously one of them, you know, seeing someone kind of leaning into an $80,000 deal because they think that that is the step. What are some of those other common pitfalls or mistakes that are easy to make in the beginning when you just don't know? I know that I've like really gone with branding here, but of course there are like other foundations other than branding, but...
• 17:15
  I think really like thinking about the page structure and boring stuff like that, like get into just Google docs, um,
• 17:24
  Dare I say even just like Apple notes, like whatever you need to do and just like. Or chat GPT. Or chat GPT and just bullet point. Like this is my page structure. This is what I want to have in my navigation, my footer. Do I need that many pages? Is there any things that we can like merge into one page and just have it heading for a bit of a longer form page style? Really just like nutting out that stuff. You don't have to have all your copywriting written.
• 17:54
  It's a little bit of a chicken and the egg thing. The copywriter may tell you like, nah, it's got to be all done prior. But just you want to have some sense of like how those pages are going to be laid out. And that also will help dictate a lot of other stuff and like just generally make the process a lot easier for you. Whether it's DIY or briefing someone.
• 18:18
  Right. So when we talk about page structure and we talk about kind of thinking about what it is that you need kind of as the starting point, something that I've seen a lot of is more of this kind of like, I don't know what it's called. I guess, is it like UX mock-up? Like you see it in like Figma or something. Like when I look at my husband's business and like how they kind of manage the...
• 18:43
  product development pipeline of new features, then rolling it out, design, tech, like whatever the process in the system is that they have. You know, they're a team of 30 developers and designers. So like they've got a whole little universe going on over there. But I'll see like...
• 18:59
  the mock-up of, and not the design. What's it called when it's like, it's gray, like everything's gray, but you can kind of understand the structure of the website. Wireframe. A wireframe. Exactly. A wireframe. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. When does the wireframe come into things? Because I think like I was getting confused with, like to me, page structure was wireframes, but I forgot that word. Just remembered it. Well, you just told me.
• 19:25
  Oh, well, that's fine. Yeah, look, it's one of those funny things where like, this is again, maybe like scrappy working with solo printers. They're all on budgets, right? And I'm like, oh, I can do mock-outs, wireframes, whatever you like. It'll just take double the amount of time because I'm creating it here, then I'm recreating it in this app, and then I'm recreating it as a website. And they're like, oh, I don't want to pay for that.
• 19:53
  But for, I mean, more for like the business owner, let's say they're trying to DIY it. For a business owner, would it make sense for them? Like, is there a tool or a template or I don't even know what it's called because I just don't know this language, but like, would they be going to try and create their wire frames before applying? Or is there something where like you can have a Shopify template where you can see the wire frame? Because remember, I think we were talking about last time.
• 20:21
  I was like, yeah, Shopify is so easy. Like found a theme that I loved, plugged it in, opened it up and was like, well, this looks nothing like, and I didn't realize it was an actual brand example that they'd shown. And I was like, well, that's, I thought that was the template. I thought I was going to open my website and it would look like that. And then I'd put in my colors and upload some imagery and like, voila, voila, rather. And like.
• 20:43
  I'm like, cool. So, like, why didn't you show me the template as wireframes with no imagery and, like, grey? And then I would understand what it looks like as a base. You know what I mean? I get you. I get you. So, basically, the...
• 20:58
  If you were willing to learn how to use Figma, for example, you already know how to use it for whatever reason. So that's like a commonly used app for wireframing and all of this sort of UX website stuff, right? So, for example, like not if I'm talking about Shopify themes just because you brought it up, not all themes out there would like come with things
• 21:24
  like a Figma template of their theme, just so you could play around with it in the app. That would be really handy. There is...
• 21:33
  Basically, Shopify has its own like default template called DAWN. It's like their sort of best practice template, right? So there's people out there on the internet who've made a Figma wireframe of that. So that's just lucky that that happens to exist out there. The other end of the spectrum is if it helps you to see the nuts and bolts of it like that without getting sidetracked with it.
• 21:58
  colors and like what image is going to go where, then you can literally get out of pen and paper and just be like, I want the first section to have a rectangle video on the right hand side. And I've got my heading there and I want my button there. Yeah, I see my husband do a lot of that. I think that's how he communicates to the team that then is like, okay, cool, let me
• 22:24
  Try and bring what you're sort of thinking to the next phase. It could be you seeing layouts that you've seen on other people's websites and you screenshotting it. And for all I know, you could like get in Canva and like collage them together and then put little rectangles over the top of it in the spots that they have their images and their text. Yeah.
• 22:46
  It's however your brain works, honestly. And I haven't had a very specific process about how I did that because the whole point of people that have worked with me directly over the years is that I like to chameleon to how their brain works.
• 23:01
  Totally. Totally. So sometimes people will send me scribbles and sometimes people will be like, I've made something in Figma. Yeah. I've probably sent you many of those. Okay. Got it. So people are kind of like putting together the mood board, putting together the basics of their branding that will get them started. They are then thinking about what's the page structure and the kind of like
• 23:27
  general navigation of what's needed. So, you know, a standard website, even if you put this in chat, GPT, it'll probably tell you, you know, you'll have your homepage, a landing page for products, a collection page for all the products, a contact page, a blog, whatever, like all the standard kind of stuff. And then you are kind of
• 23:49
  Would the next step be preparing your imagery or would the next step be trying to apply the basic branding and getting a dummy kind of version somewhat fleshed out?
• 24:06
  I think that there are a few things that are like dependent on the platform that you're on. So I will inevitably say Shopify a lot just because most of the people showing up here have a more product-based business, right? So with Shopify, like you're choosing a theme beforehand and each theme will come with
• 24:26
  a bunch of sections or you can sort of call them different layouts. So you might look at that theme demo and be like, I really like that layout and I really want that on my about page. So yeah, you could start to think about like my app about page, I'm going to have that video section and I'm going to need to pull...
• 24:46
  the right reel, or I might need to edit that reel down a little bit. It's going to be on the website, so it's going to be muted. So maybe I'll add captions to it. So you can really start to think about that kind of stuff and put everything into folders. Or again, it depends how you work, whether it's like a lovely big...
• 25:07
  Trello board full of lots of sections where you're like, this is all my about page stuff, this is all my homepage stuff. So, man, as much as you can figure out outside of the website platform before you get in there and start building, the better. Yeah, yeah, I get it. It makes it, like, just so much easier. And I guess, like, resizing the imagery or, like, making sure that they're, you know, not huge files that are,
• 25:35
  And maybe, again, this comes, I know I say chat GPT so often, but maybe like this is the stuff that would be on the checklist of like, do this step next kind of thing. And then you're like, oh, yeah, okay, this all makes sense. And now I'm in a good position to put it all in and kind of get it to a basic state that you can then go and layer on top copywriting, more branding aesthetics, the flavor and the flair.
• 26:00
  Exactly. And the reality is, is that some people will just be like, I've prepped enough. I just want to get in there and start trying to build it. I just want to start figuring this platform out. And so go in there and make a test page or just go in there and like start with one. Because inevitably, and as I'm designing, as you're designing, as your designer is designing, you'll get in there and be like, actually, this is not working.
• 26:25
  That video looks weird. I'm going to have to get into CapCut and like make it a bit more square or, you know, that's getting cut off here because, you know, add in the layer of, you know, trickiness of making things look nice on a vertical mobile and a super wide screen computer has its own like trickiness. Sometimes it's just a matter of fiddling once you're in there. There's only so much you can prep is what I'm saying.
• 26:52
  Fiddling is such a funny word. I don't like it, but I also love it at the same time. It is a bit. It's like thumbs up, thumbs down kind of vibe. I feel like we've covered a lot of good stuff when it comes to the practical steps of that like foundational piece feels like clear to me in my mind, especially if I was doing it myself. What I want to kind of dive deeper into now is like the time, the cost, so that we can kind of
• 27:23
  discuss like, does it just make more sense to hire someone and outsource it or to spend potentially months trying to figure it out yourself and getting constantly stuck at hurdles? And then like, what is the cost of your time? So I want to understand, I guess my question to start with is...
• 27:40
  the realities for a new Shopify store owner who isn't technical, like someone like me, what is the, or based on what you know, what is the time and cost investment if you do it yourself versus if you hire someone like you to kind of take that project on? Yeah.
• 28:00
  Of course, the annoying answer is that it's like a massive variable depending on how time poor you are. And if this is a business that you're trying to get off the ground and you don't feel a sense of urgency around it as much as
• 28:18
  I don't know. So I would actually like start with getting some quotes, just so like probably quite a few, maybe up to five, whether that's from agencies and freelancers, just to get a sense of like, okay, that person who I really love is kind of like middle of the road, like maybe it's like $10,000 or whatever it is. And then I would also start to, so once you have those to sort of go off, you can be like,
• 28:48
  okay, I'm going to attempt to DIY it. Maybe you'll buy a $500 Shopify thing or something. That's kind of the going rate of them. Got it. Yep. So maybe you play around with one of the free things just to get a sense of like, am I even going to be able to do this? Is it hard? Watch the tutorials. Make sure you watch the tutorials and give it a crack. Have a little test at doing it yourself and see how it feels. Yeah. Like give yourself a weekend and be like,
• 29:18
  Like, let's be realistic here. Am I going to be able to upskill and be the person that does it? Or do I just need to outsource it so that I don't waste months kind of dipping my toe? Exactly. But again, if you get into Shopify and you're like, well, it looks like shit, but you haven't done your branding again. So the whole branding piece, doing that, outsourcing that, then the whole web design piece, doing that versus outsourcing that. Yeah, I think that's a critical step.
• 29:47
  One's quite technical, one's quite designing. So it depends where your skills lie and being like, I like the idea of doing most of the branding myself. Go for that. You've already saved yourself so much money that you might be like, cool, now I have that. I just want to see it on the website already. I want to get this baby going. I've invested. Then maybe it makes sense to get help there. Yeah.
• 30:12
  Or even getting it to like a basic point and then going and getting someone to polish and fine tune and improve it.
• 30:19
  So that it's like you just hire someone, you know, for a couple of days to give it a zhuzh. And so just, you know, naturally I'm going to, because I've worked with small people for so long that the reason I ended up making my own Shopify theme is because people do want it to look really cool like the big guys, but yeah,
• 30:45
  I wanted people to be able to DIY and not get overwhelmed. So it's like, by its own tutorials, there's support when people are talking to me, right? And so people will often get their website as far as they can take it DIY. And then maybe they'll book me for a day. And that's when you get your designer to come in and like add the finesse and anything that looks a little bit, you know, janky or weird. Well, a web designer is going to be like, yeah, cool. I found that. I found that. I found that.
• 31:15
  Yeah. And I think that's also such a great process to follow, especially if you are a solopreneur, small business owner, where it's like you still should have some basic understanding of how to fix your own things in Shopify when you just need to jump in and change a typo and not have to rely on someone else to do it for you. You want to be able to have the basic foundations of navigating that easy stuff. And then you want to be able to have the person that can do the stuff that you can't do.
• 31:43
  It's just going to be good to have someone in your pocket regardless. When you are really good at whatever it is that you do, it's unfair to expect yourself to be an amazing work designer on top of that. So most people who start their own businesses are pretty creative in some way. So that's going to get you a long way as it is and save you a lot of money. I can, yeah, I don't like that.
• 32:09
  I heard Stephen Bartlett at his talk in Sydney and he was kind of talking about this idea of like, if it's not your skill, outsource it and move on. Like figure out what the budget is and just like outsource it and move on because like...
• 32:25
  There's a lot of this narrative that we should upskill and do everything and blah, blah, blah. But actually, like if you were just to double down on your zone of genius and the thing that you're really good at and push forward with that thing within the business and like just try and get the other things sorted out.
• 32:40
  and delegate it. And I know that's like hard to say if you're like bootstrapped and doing it on a budget, but the reality is, is if you're building a business, it's going to cost money to get it started and get it off the ground. It, especially a product-based business, it requires capital and it requires a lot of working capital. And it's like,
• 32:56
  instead of just trying to do it all, actually just try and do less and get someone else to do the other thing. And I think that was a really interesting point for me because I'm usually someone that's like, do it yourself, do it all. But then actually, if I was to think about like how much time I have absolutely just wasted getting absolutely nowhere and probably in a worse place than when I started, like I can't tell you the amount of times I've broken things and just haven't then been able to fix it and spent hours trying to dig around. And I'm like, oh, you know what? This is just, I'm leaving it broken. That's just it.
• 33:26
  I don't care. Like I just shouldn't have done that, you know? It's so common. And like the most beautiful results I've seen is like people who can go, okay, no one knows my business and my vision and all that stuff better than I do to at least be providing information
• 33:44
  anyone who you're outsourcing to really good briefs and like really taking the time to like put all that together and have really clear inspo that's like quite defined. And anyone who's had a crack at DIYing their own website, at least getting a feel for the platform itself and knowing like generally where everything is. And so that you can DIY like little maintenance-y bits, like you said, changing words, tweaking this, moving this higher, all that kind of stuff.
• 34:13
  If you understand the hourly of your designer and how much it costs to get XYM done, you're going to start realizing how much money you have saved, even if you didn't completely DIY this or that. Just to have a crack and to take the time to do that stuff will save you money inevitably.
• 34:32
  Sorry. Yeah, 100% agree. 100% agree. And there's something else you said actually just before. When you were saying like, you know, even just start by going out and getting five different quotes, I think that's also a really important step whether you're planning to DIY or not because –
• 34:47
  You also can get a feel for like if you aren't going to DIY and you're going to hire someone, you want to get a range of quotes so you can find people that you vibe with. Because I feel like sometimes you get on a call with someone and you're just immediately like this is a no, like I'm not going to be able to work with you. Like we're just two not on the same page and totally not values aligned or just you don't get it.
• 35:08
  And when you get those quotes and then you understand and then you still maybe you go and try it yourself first or, you know, whatever it is, hybrid model or hybrid approach, you've kind of like got more intuition and just more data touch points of how things work. Because one person might give you a gem of an insight or a tip and the other person might be like, oh, wow, I could imagine us working together, you know.
• 35:35
  And I think that's a really good point that you made back there that I just took a little note down about. It's so true. Working with people you like is...
• 35:44
  fundamental to sanity. It is. And like really once you're in it, like having a go doing it by yourself and you go, you're just thinking about that call that you had with a certain design. You're just like, oh man, I know that they'd just be able to get in there. And you start really going, oh, I'm feeling that I'm seeing the value of like, oh, it really makes sense to drop cash right now. You'll just know if you're like connected to your intuition, you'll just know. And it's like,
• 36:12
  Yeah, those calls or those quotes, even if it's an email and how it's worded, you'll know pretty quickly who you're drawn to. A really type A person would probably hate working with me, whereas people who have crazy visions that they've really struggled to articulate it to people and they're the ones that end up coming to me being like, I just feel like you're going to understand this weird idea that I have. You're going to get the shambles that's going on in my head and somehow put it out there visually. I love that.
• 36:41
  I have loved this. I'm so excited for our next episode already. We're going to be talking through the anatomy of conversion-focused landing pages, which doesn't sound overly sexy to me, but I'm actually so excited about it because...
• 36:59
  That stuff makes all the difference. And then I think the episode after that, we're going to do some stuff on automations and AI and who knows what will be after that. But I'm very excited. Thank you for coming on the show and giving us the foundational DIY practical guide to getting your Shopify live. My pleasure. It's always, always. Thank you. Thank you.
• 37:26
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 37:51
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 38:13
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.