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Professor Exposes the Sick Agenda to Turn Kids Into Robotic Slaves · Man in America Podcast

• 0:14
  Seth Holehouse: Picture a five year old walking into kindergarten today. They get handed a Chromebook, and on that little screen is this friendly little chatbot ready to help them learn. Now it seems harmless, but a group of students in Lawrence, Kansas actually sued their own school district after an AI tool called Gaggle tracked everything that they typed, pulled down their artwork, and even flagged a student's journalist's private notes before she could publish her story. The district only dropped the tool after the lawsuit and the public pressure forced their hand. And this isn't some small rare case.
• 0:46
  The AI in education industry is now worth somewhere between 7 and $11,000,000,000 a year, and it keeps climbing. My guest today warned us this was coming years before it made any of the headlines. John Kleiszik is the author of School World Order and a longtime college professor who spent years researching how modern classroom technology connects to something much bigger. This affects your family directly, whether it's your grandchildren, your own kids, or the neighbor's kids down the street. John reveals a loophole hiding in the very privacy law that most parents trust to protect their children's, school data.
• 1:22
  And the surveillance doesn't stop at the classroom door. The same tracking tools are already showing up at work, including an AI system called PADI that Burger King now uses to listen in on employees and score how polite they sound. So what happened in Kansas isn't just some one off story, it's exactly what John has been warning families about for years. Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse.
• 1:47
  Now before we jump in, make sure you hit that like button, the share button, and also make sure that you subscribe. Helps you get notifications. It helps us to reach more people. Now, as you may know, none of my content is behind a paywall. I choose to stay independent of any platform or anyone tell me what I can or cannot say.
• 2:02
  But because of that, I have to put in ads in my episodes. And so here's a quick one for you, but it's actually something I really, really love. It is the Hydrate Complete from my good friend, Doctor. Brian Artis. So this is a magic little powder that you put into your drink mix, and it rehydrates you with the 40 nutrients that your body loses while sweating.
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• 2:41
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• 2:55
  And if you want to support the show, support Brian Artis, and also support your family's health, I recommend checking out this Hydrate Complete. So there's a link in the description of the show that you can go directly to the website where you can purchase it. And if you use the promo code Seth, s e t h, you'll get 10% off your order. Alright, let's go ahead get into my conversation with John Klyzhik. John, it's good to have you on here.
• 3:17
  Thank you for giving us your time today, and I'm really looking forward to getting into this discussion. So, thanks for being here, Madden.
• 3:23
  John Klyczek: Well, thank you so much for hosting me.
• 3:25
  Seth Holehouse: Absolutely. So, I'm really extra excited for this because you're one of the guests I really enjoy talking with because you're not just an expert on a single topic, you're bridging a lot of things together, the occult secret societies, deep understanding of the education system, AI, technocracy, and how it all kind of converges into where we are today. And so, anyway, I'll let you go ahead and just give a quick introduction to yourself, and we'll just dive into the deep end together.
• 3:57
  John Klyczek: Yeah. Thanks. So I'm, you know, John Kolizek, author of School World Order, The Technocratic Globalization of Corporatized Education. I'm a public educator. I teach college research, and rhetoric, research argumentation.
• 4:10
  So, basically, English one zero one and one zero two. English one zero two is basically rhetoric in general, and then one zero two is research methods. Right? Rhetoric plus research methods. I've been doing that for over fifteen years now.
• 4:23
  At a certain point I was working actually for Pearson at one point. I was doing some online tutoring on the side, and there were some other things that had occurred in the state of Illinois where the Bruce Rauner, was the governor at the time, was stalling on the budget, and I saw this as a ploy to push public institutions into private receivership. All this is going on while I was tutoring for Pearson. They they decided they were gonna have IBM's Watson copilot with us. And for those who don't know, IBM's Watson was like the premier AI at the time before all the generative AI stuff.
• 4:57
  So all this stuff was going on. I saw Bruce Rauner was, again, trying to push things into private receivership, and I knew that he had funded charter schools, which are private companies that are subsidized by public tax dollars, but he also pushed all of these buzzwords that my mentor, Charlotte Thompson Izerby, talked about, and so this is just school choice buzzword in general, but the things that go with it like Cradle to Career and School to Work is also, there was the rise of these things called P20 and P16 councils, which are like these consortiums for integrating public private partnerships between schools in either in demand industries or healthcare industries. And so I wrote this first piece called the corporatization of education becomes what later became one of the first chapters and Charlotte Izerbiet had reached out to me. For those who don't know, she worked for Ronald Reagan in the Department of Education. She was a special advisor in the office of educational research and improvement.
• 5:50
  She discovered a major technology initiative called Project B. S. T. Basic Education Skills Through Technology. She blew the whistle on it.
• 5:57
  Basically, it was the plan to set up public private partnerships between technology corporations and government funded schools to implement computerized learning. They would use BF scanners, operating conditioning algorithms to basically psychologically condition people for a global globally planned workforce, a globally planned economy. And so, that's sort of the background on, like, my profession.
• 6:25
  Seth Holehouse: I've been looking at tracking this agenda, which you see really kinda culminates into AI. You you kinda see the AI is the kinda beginning of the end in this agenda. You know, they they needed to wait until they had the development of these large language models and and and then also the data centers to support the capacity needed for these systems, right, to kinda merge it all together. Now I've been focused more on a lot of the infrastructure, you know, the the surveillance tech, whether it's phones, flock cameras, etcetera, the processing, you know, kind of infrastructure, data centers. And so but I haven't looked at the specifics of the education system.
• 7:07
  Now, I've I've gone into, you know, the the origins of it and how they kinda took over education, turn the century, last, you know, last century, and basically kinda turned it into this factory to stamp out factory workers and corporate slaves. You know, children that are just taught to sit still, obey, you know, strip away any of that independence that you find in children, the the free thinking, the entrepreneurship, and just kinda train them to go along the path of finish school, go to college, get a job, have a four zero one k, retire by 65 if you're lucky, and and then die. Right? They create this cycle of of slaves, in essence. And so when you're looking at the the modern education system now, especially post COVID, where we saw this huge influx in technology, and you're looking at it and you see people like Bill Gates investing money in, you know, putting these devices in classrooms.
• 7:57
  Like, whenever I see Bill Gates investing in anything, all these sirens go off, like, okay, what's really going on here? What's what's, like what would you say is the is the central goal of what's happening in the modern classroom with children today?
• 8:11
  John Klyczek: I would say that the endgame for education is the same endgame for all other industries when they converge in what we call the singularity. People like Ray Kurzweil predict will be the convergence of all these technologies into this AGI that we're all going to merge with through some sort of social credit grid. So ultimately, end the end game here is a social credit technocracy, a social credit panopticon that is, driven by something known as social impact investing in human capital bond market. So so basically, my book looks at a progression of various technologies, so starting with screen based technologies moving to wearable technologies and eventually implantable technologies. When we get to the the so there's a there's a series of data mining that occurs from the wearables and the screen base.
• 9:03
  So the screen base is what's known as adaptive learning courseware. This is basically the modern digital version of B. Skinner's analog teaching machines. If you look at companies like DreamBox, they they explicitly state this. They also tell you that, these feedback loops, the the adaptive learning, feedback loops are essentially the same types of data that are used for, behavioral advertising, so predictive analytics.
• 9:28
  The same types of things that show you the types of ads that you they think you want to see on YouTube or your social media. Okay? And so what what people might not know is that anytime you have these devices, they're embedded with a certain level of data mining. Okay? Now there's a federal law called FERPA that's supposed to protect student privacy.
• 9:50
  I guess you think of it as like HIPAA the for schools. Okay? It's supposed to protect student data. Now if they but it only protects what's known as PII, which is personally identifiable information. So you strip away the personally identifiable information, what you're left with is UII, that's user interaction information.
• 10:11
  So that you can take that data and then you can run it through machine learning and deep learning and neural networks and you can create some sort of a generative AI. So all the various types of AI that we have, what they're doing is they're statistical processors. They aggregate patterns of some form of data and then based on the statistical likelihood of those patterns they can We can produce reproduce them. So a large language model, right, it's fed a bunch of text, and then it can pull out patterns of tests based on, right, statistical analytics. You're thinking of like AI that can generate music or images, it's the same thing.
• 10:52
  Right? The reason why it's able to do this is because it's been fed a ton of images or tons of sounds. Okay? So for the generative AI tutors that OpenAI and Khan Academy use, right, basically, what they have, it's a large language model, so it's been right? It's been fed all the text, but it's also been fed these feedback loops, the UII feedback loops, which has been going on since these have been have been installed.
• 11:14
  They've they've been used in online platforms for probably almost two decades, or take. It might be more or less than that. Definitely well over a decade. And so what they're able what these generative AI tutors are capable of doing is tracking those stimulus response algorithms, right, that are based in the either the adaptive learning courseware or the social emotional learning biofeedback wearable. So those ones are data mining students' emotional algorithms, the cognitive behavioral is basically data mining students' thinking algorithms.
• 11:50
  And so the wearables are every anything from EKGs like heart math that data mining students' heart rates to EEG wearables like Brainco or NeuroCore that data mine the students' brain waves. They purport that they can infer certain emotions. So is the student paying attention? Is the student confused? Is the student frustrated?
• 12:09
  And then it can personalize feedback and personalize what they call the career pathway curriculum and personalized which modules the student acclimates through to to get through the career pathway. So the generative AI tutors now, right, we don't we don't really need a lattice of, like, screen based and wearables. The generative AI, especially if you're this bot is basically built into not just interact with the student in terms of natural language, but it can also keep track of, right, their cognitive behavioral and their social emotional feedback loops. And and you don't need a wearable either to to analyze the emotional data. You can get it from facial recognition.
• 12:54
  And so if a student's doing under what they're called learning management system, LMS, I have to use three of them. I I'm an adjunct. I teach at three different colleges, two two community colleges, one university, and I use a different one for each school. So one is Blackboard, the other one is D2L, and the other one is Canvas. Right?
• 13:13
  These are the dashboards that have all of the different lessons, curriculums, modules that the student has to complete for whatever given course. So, basically, you can have a you can have a personalized chatbot that basically copilots the student as they work through their modules. It can keep track of, right, again, the their cognitive behavioral feedback loops, and if it's got a camera it or if they wanted to put a wearable on, it could then make inferences about the emotions. And so this is the that data that goes into the bot, you mentioned, you know, data centers and flock cam, it goes into the same basically comprehensive bio cycle social social data pool that we're moving towards in terms of a social credit system. Right?
• 14:00
  And so, basically, you'll eventually have a blockchain digital ID ledger, and that ledger is gonna keep track of everything you do, not just in terms of at school on your ed tech, but it's gonna keep your health care record. It's gonna keep your workforce records. It's gonna keep your criminal justice records. Okay? And this is what I meant by this is how it all will converge.
• 14:21
  And and, you know, it'll be recursive. So what you do at school could affect your job, and what you do at job could affect what kind of health care you get. And what kind of health care you get could affect whether or not they think you're criminally at risk. If you're flagged as mentally ill, well then maybe you're a terrorist. So these analytics are all recursive in that way.
• 14:42
  And this is the place where so the AI, right, the school system is installing a series of technologies to extract data, to build AI, to build the social credit system, to basically micromanage students, but and, well, citizens at large, but this is also the place at which Elon Musk says something like if you can't beat it, you have to join it. Because at this point, right, the the hype is that most of the jobs that that are gonna be offered, they're gonna be automated. Right? And so this is also where the impact investing in the human capital bond markets come in play because profit is not gonna be generated from actually producing products or even by extracting value from human labor. It's it's we're gonna reach an inflection point at which we move from humans using machines to generate capital to machines using humans to generate capital.
• 15:43
  And that capital is generated from basically, it's no longer about what we can grow or produce, but the growth or the profit is embedded in streamlining or refining, making more efficient the human resource supply chains. So in other words, it's in that pool of predictive analytics where some monies or a profit can be accrued based on by making sort of the human cog more efficient. So in for social impact investments, basically what they will do is something like this. There's a company called Upswing that's the contract at one of the schools that I tutor at, and they're already automating by proxy some of that stuff. Yeah.
• 16:30
  There's a return on investment calculator on one of those pages. I think if you go to where it says impact and then you scroll down, I
• 16:38
  Seth Holehouse: You calculate your ROI.
• 16:40
  John Klyczek: There you go. So basically what they do is and it has a bot too. At some point, you'll probably see it. It's a bot called Anna. I think that's a little cute term for analytics because the what it does this bot does not actually do the tutoring, but it intermediates it.
• 16:56
  So it's it's gonna like students are gonna interact with other human tutors on this dashboard, and that Anna is gonna sit there and keep track of all of it. So what it's gonna keep track of is, you know, not just each student's individually, like how efficiently they learn and are they achieving the outcomes that they need to achieve. It can also look at it in terms of, like, by grade, like sophomore, junior, senior. It can look at it by like ethnicity, gender, institution wide. And that data is procured not I mean, I guess technically, you know, they would say that it's for the student to help personalize learning, but it's as much for the college because then what they do is they use it to get the impact investment grants.
• 17:46
  And if you if you and I there's a video that anybody can watch. It's on my my YouTube channel on it's think it's the most recent video I did. It might be the second most, on this on this very company where I show you the different impact investment firms and the various venture capital firms. Yeah. It's so it's yep.
• 18:04
  Yep. That are funding upswing. Okay? And so that return on investment calculator, basically what they do is they are they convert student outcomes into money's gained or lost, right, in terms of, you know, by specifically upswing, what they say is they're looking at attrition rates. So if we attrition is how is the rate at which students drop out of class, okay?
• 18:32
  And so if you can reduce that, well then that's all that extra money that right? Tuition monies, right? And so what they do is and and they can do this for for a various range of outcomes. Basically and there's other data. A lot of it kinda, I guess, intersects with, like, woke identity politics.
• 18:49
  So there's, like, some of them, like, Sagamore Point Foundation, like they wanted to give they focus on outcomes for marginalized peoples that fall under various gender and ethnic identities. Right? But if you look at stuff like American Enterprise Institute, is like, you know, it's one of these Koch brothers state policy network think tanks, they're into impact investing too. They just kinda leave out some of the identity politics stuff, and they're really just looking at, like, workforce outcomes and eco like, raw economic outcomes. So, basically, it it works like this.
• 19:23
  Like, they say if you if a student doesn't do so good in school, then they are more likely to either end up in jail or maybe mentally ill or they need to be retrained into the workforce. This costs the government money. Right? And so they have specific impact investments called pay for success, and these are provided for in the Every Student Succeeds Act, which is the main federal bill that governs k k through 12 education. Okay.
• 19:55
  And and so, basically, it works like this. It's a it's a instead of the government just handing out money for these various social programs, you have an impact investment firm, which could be nonprofit or could be for profit. They come in and they basically could deal with the government that they will cover those costs. And by doing so, they're going to try to help the student achieve those outcomes thus saving the government money. If the student achieves those outcomes, they make the government the money back.
• 20:31
  If they go past the prospective outcomes, they can make a profit. And so where the human capital bonds come in is they basically, they take that data and they securitize it. Right? And they put it in a human capital bond, and this is where the AI comes in because basically you need the AI to track the data. So so the so the school needs the AI so that the student's data can be tracked.
• 20:57
  The impact investment firm needs the AI so that they can track the appreciation of the bond, and the government needs the AI so that they can verify everything. Okay? And sometimes there's a third party verifier that comes in, and these would be institutions that would like that uphold like various ESG metrics and things like that. And so what I basically, the AI and the human capital bond markets, they are part of the same system. They're two sides of the same coin, and it's the human capital bonds that give the social credit system teeth.
• 21:34
  Right? By extension, the way that they sort of lock this in is that the monies paid out in terms of the bonds are going to be stable coins or some form of a crypto, some form of coin that is programmable so that it can only be used by the by the impact investment firm to the student. You know, the chain of custody in terms of whether or not the smart track unlocks only goes to through that chain of custody to this student the only for the ed tech products that are deemed necessary for the student to get the cap the human capital bond to appreciate. So that that's that's sort of the big picture. Right?
• 22:16
  It's it's sort of a it's a process of extrapolating the data, merging the students with the system, and then basically putting them in human literal human body, you digital human bondage sort of tell you. So it's a I'd say it's some people don't like the term techno feudal. I think that's a pretty good illustration of, you know, instead of having a feudal lord and you're living on their little fiefdom and like having to till the land, like, you're basically you have like a digital tech bro that, like, you you live inside their portfolio and you have to, like, go to the Skinner box and, you know, instead of the pigeon pecking, you know, the different buttons, like, you you have to just click click the different things on the screen in the proper order to get your tokens, your your little food palettes basically.
• 23:13
  Seth Holehouse: Before we go any further, I wanna highlight something because it connects directly to a lot of what I've been talking about lately. So this massive AI build out that we're seeing, it's not being paid for out of the profits from these big tech companies, it's being paid for with debt and private credit and we're talking about over $1,000,000,000,000 of this debt And here's what almost nobody's telling you. The same private assets financing the AI boom are being dumped into ordinary Americans retirement portfolios right as Social Security's retirement reserves are projected to run dry by 2032. So the question isn't whether AI succeeds, it's who gets the upside and who gets stuck with the bill. And that's why I wanna point this out to you.
• 23:55
  Mark Wilburn, the president of Neos Capital is hosting a free live event on September 24 and September 26 called the Freedom Trading Summit. It's two hours of live training that's absolutely free, where Mark's gonna actually teach you how to read a stock chart yourself and how to recognize when the big money is heading for the exit. So what's this mean to you? Well, it means that you don't have to lose your life savings when the AI bubble pops. It means that you can learn to read what's actually happening in the markets and walk away on top while most people are stuck trying to figure out what just wiped them out.
• 24:30
  So go to mianeos.com. It's in the description or to scan the QR code that's on your screen. He's also giving away a free digital copy of his book for everyone who attends. Now again, that's mia-neos.com to register or just scan the QR code you see on the screen. Looking at the kind of fundamental principles as you can see across different industries, obviously we have merger of the public and private.
• 24:58
  Right? You have these companies that become these you know, Flock camera is a good example. It's a company that becomes almost an intermediary between the public data collection and the government access to that data. So it's not the government itself collecting it, it's not kind of bypassing some of the constitutional rights that we have, but it's just doing it in a roundabout way, in a sneaky way, because they can get away with it. Right?
• 25:20
  It's kind of like, well, we're gonna have this black ops, you know, non, you know, kind of DOD organization take out the leader of this country so congress doesn't approve. It wasn't done by our own military. It was done through this, you know, kind of shell company. Right? And so, you know, so if we're looking at this, it it seems like the the kind of the core principles, whether it's education system, whether it's anything else that we're seeing, it's data harvesting.
• 25:47
  So data harvesting to then train the AI models so the AI models can then use that data they've harvested to then further control and program and socially engineer the class of the the plebs in essence. You know, it's like when Elon Musk came in and bought Twitter, everyone's celebrating. It's like, oh, great. You know, you know, free speech is back. I I think that one of the biggest things he was doing with Twitter is just buying as a data harvesting operation and being able to data harvest, like, the the collective consciousness of the world and bring it in to use it to train to train his AI systems.
• 26:19
  And I'm sure it plugs into a lot of other things that we're not even aware of in terms of just kind of mastering that social engineering. I mean, it takes me back to Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, that, you know, kind of where they're talking about the the shock testing, economic shock testing, and they can say, hey, if if we raise the price of meat by 30¢, we're gonna see that there's an increase in alcohol purchases and cigarette purchases. And they they can figure out through this shock testing when they do something, see how the system reacts, how people react to it, further feeds their data and their algorithms, they can then further kind of refine that ultimately with the end goal being very, very powerful tools for social engineering and ultimately for social control. And so, you know, I would say that, you know, most middle school age kids, they're not participating in a lot of the day to day activities or technological interactions that this system needs to harvest the data. Most of them say middle age, middle school age, they're hopefully not carrying smartphones, they're probably not on social media as much as a lot of the adults are.
• 27:24
  And so the introduction of all this technology into the classroom is that, I mean, in a lot of ways, is it just has it become this giant data harvesting operation? And while they say that, oh, well, your privacy is protected because we're not saying that, you know, little Jimmy is having this reaction, little Jimmy is doing this, but, you know, Jimmy represents user 1946, you know, b. Right, that kind of is feeding into this system. And so, I mean, is is in a lot of ways, is the modern education system is one of its main goals? It just it's data harvesting of the children, but then is that data then being analyzed and then used and fed back to engineer those children for a particular outcome?
• 28:06
  John Klyczek: Yeah. I mean, that's basically the, you know, it's that's the recursive process by by which this occurs. And, you know, you mentioned sort of the data harvesting in terms of, like, Elon Musk in this, you described something that sounds like action research. And there's a guy by the name of Kurt Lewin, and he comes out of the Frankfurt School. He was also part of the Macy Cybernetics Conference.
• 28:30
  And the Macy Cybernetics Conference is this is where basically all the theoretical basis for not just AI, but all things cybernetics. Basically, the the social credit police state technocracy control grid that's being that's come that is emerging. This goes back to the late forties, nineteen fifties in terms of, like, laying out the schematics for it. You had people like John von Neumann, it was just the the the book that he wrote, the human use of human beings, and, you know, it's a book on cybernetics. And basically they So cybernetics
• 29:03
  Seth Holehouse: for the audience. Explain to us what cybernetics is.
• 29:06
  John Klyczek: So cybernetics, it comes from a Greek Greek word basically means steersman. And cybernetics is a term, you know, in the modern sense is used to refer to steering or controlling by means of technology. And so the idea here this is this is this is a good point to place to sort of illustrate what a feedback loop is and how that works. Right? So a feedback loop is remember I mentioned that stimulus response algorithms.
• 29:38
  So we can go back to Wilhelm Wundt for a second. Right? This is all modern laboratory psychology is traced back to Wilhelm Wundt in Leipzig, Germany. Basically, you know, believed that the original study of psychology is the study of the Stolt. Well, he didn't believe that you could that you could actually measure that.
• 29:55
  But what you can measure and, you know, make inference on is people's behaviors. Right? You can measure how people behave and you can make inferences about what's going on in here based on that. And so, you know, classical conditioning, this is Vunt and Pavlov. This is associative.
• 30:12
  So, like, they just found, like, if you ring the bell with the food, eventually, dog associates the bell with the food and they salivate. Later, you get something called behaviorism. Behaviorism is like they start to add, like, punishments and reward sequences to actually train various behaviors. B. F.
• 30:29
  Skinner comes along, adds two other quadrants, so it's positive and negative punishments and rewards. Positive and negative means you're either adding a stimuli or removing a stimuli, right? So as you were sort of laying out these experiments, you know, sort of systemic, right, in terms of if we change the environmental stimuli, what sort of responses do we get out of people? So Kurt Lewin came up with something called action research. Right?
• 30:55
  And there was a concept freeze, unfreeze, freeze, or I might be getting there. Unfreeze, freeze, unfreeze. Basically, have a you have people in an environment that operates a certain way. You do something to freeze it or unfreeze it to shock the system. You see how people react.
• 31:10
  And then based on that data, now you decide either, yeah, let's you know, we got the reaction we wanted. Keep doing that. We didn't get the reaction we wanted. We need to refine it. That's the feedback loop.
• 31:21
  Okay? And there's also a concept in here. I don't wanna get off and put too many irons on the table, but it has to do with human potential psychology and positive psychology and and Maslow stuff, which is the feed forward aspect. I don't wanna get off. But so you have they understand human beings as what are called teleological machines or teleological mechanisms.
• 31:42
  Okay? And so teleology or telos, it means purpose, goal, or end. So we are goal seeking, end seeking machines. So we feed forward into something, whether it's like certain values, right, that might be cultural or institutional. Right?
• 31:59
  And then based on how close we get to achieving those values, right, when we do something, if we get closer to achieving that value or that goal, we repeat it. If we don't, right, we we make an adjustment. This is how the feed forward and the feedback work together and you get this feedback loop. Well, if you think of a steersman on a boat, right, it's not a motorboat. You don't just and cut through the right?
• 32:22
  You kinda have to go with the the man steering the boat has to ride the feedback waves, basically. Okay? And so there's something called also so this action research and all stuff that really it ties into and relates to some Rand Corporation stuff known as Scenario Planning. This was developed by Herman Kahn. He's the guy who doctor Strangelove is based on Herman Kahn.
• 32:54
  Okay. And so RAND Corporation is this basically military industrial complex think tank, and there's a few other concepts that go with it. But but in scenario planning, basically, they you you know what was a scenario planning document that you and your audience is probably familiar with? It is the the lockstep document. Oh, yeah.
• 33:12
  The rock Lockstep. If you look at that document, you'll see that they it's it's scenario the the title is actually scenarios for something, and it's a scenario planning document. Maybe I had these in education. You can get one on my on my website, on my my database. It was one for school choice and technology.
• 33:33
  But they basically they put these four scenarios on like a quadrant. Okay? And so like in those four quadrants you have like the most ideal, the least ideal, and then the two intermediaries are like, you know, you're halfway getting to the worst one or you're halfway getting to the best one. Okay? And so if if they want to restructure, whether it be a particular industry or a particular sector of society or the whole country, right, they have a certain ideal goal, they have something they have something that they act that they wanna do for sure.
• 34:06
  Yeah. If you keep scrolling, you'll see the quadrants and you'll see lockstep is the one that we that we played out. Now, I don't know. I haven't read it closely enough or recently enough to remember which one was the ideal scenario. That's the two quadrants.
• 34:19
  Now they're gonna overlap.
• 34:20
  Seth Holehouse: Here we go. This is it. Yeah.
• 34:22
  John Klyczek: And so there you go. And lockstep is is the one.
• 34:25
  Seth Holehouse: The surveillance state. Yeah.
• 34:27
  John Klyczek: Yeah. And and so what they're doing with the action research and, you know, people like Elon Musk and things like that with harvesting the data from the social media, and now now we've got geospatial intelligence and plot cameras. Right? So now we're gonna aggregate. It's not just abstract ideas on a on a social media platform.
• 34:48
  It's like, you know, integrated with physical metadata. But what they're doing is they're basically changing the environmental stimuli in some way or form, watching how people react, and it's not just in terms of individuals, but in terms of groups. Right? Right wing, left wing, this religion, that religion, this ethnic group, this age group. Right?
• 35:11
  And then from there, right, they make that adjustment. Right? Like, oh, we're getting closer to ideal scenario. Oh, we're you know, we let's keep doing that. Oh, we that's not working.
• 35:20
  We need to, We change need the stimuli or we need to need to change the action research methodology. And so this is all sort of one other thing that's worth noting is that, you know, some of the first venture capital firms, they arise right around the same time. You know, and venture capital, what is venture I mean, the whole idea here is they're funding startups. Right? Things that normal investors wouldn't put money in because you're not gonna get an immediate profit.
• 35:52
  Right? So these are like ideological projects. Right? And some of the most famous venture capital firms like NQ Tel, right? These have their It's literally the CIA's venture capital firm.
• 36:05
  I think Sequoia is also connected to the CIA or intelligence in some way if my memory serves me correctly. But what are they doing? So basically in Macy's cybernetics conference, you have the theory all laid out. Eventually you get Moore's law, which basically is the mathematical predictions for the rates at which the transistors would be efficient enough not just to actually track not to not just to actually track all of the data in real time, but then to store it and then to extrapolate data from it. Right?
• 36:38
  I mean, you're talking in the late 40s, still got vacuum tubes, right? But eventually they start to see how, right, every so often, I don't remember the exact numbers, capability, the data processing capability doubles, and it does it exponentially. So they can go early believe it's 50s or 60s with Moore's laws. You know, it's almost half a century. It's at least half a century away from where we are now when they can look way down there and go, oh, by this year, round about this year, we'll be right on the precipice of this system.
• 37:11
  And so if you look at some of the first big tech companies, they all a lot of them have these connections to military industrial complex. So you have Facebook. Well, you know, that came out right after there was this pitch for a government thing called Life Log. It was basically it was a government Facebook that everybody thought was creepy because this was right after the Patriot Act. And so the Patriot Act happens, or, you know, nineeleven happens, then we get this bill rammed through where they have this, you know, the warrant was wiretapping.
• 37:46
  Remember, it's going to be for the foreign terrorists. It's never gonna be for us. Right? This was the pitch. And everybody, you know, here we are almost thirty years later that, you know, knew what was up.
• 37:57
  It's like, yeah, no. This is for us. And there's other examples like TIA, total information awareness. Right? That was basically Health Palette.
• 38:09
  Comes right out, you know, right around the same time. And, you know, Oracle, I mean, it it didn't replace something that well, actually, was a previous CIA project called Oracle. And I say, oh, it's just a common name or whatever. But, you know, their first contractor was the CIA and, you know, very there's a lot to show that the development of Oracle's was closely done in tandem with intelligence agencies. Right?
• 38:40
  And so the people who've built this economy, this this gig economy, Right? If you look at look at the venture capital, you know, the Founders Fund, Alumni Ventures, Andreessen Horowitz, Kraft Ventures, they all overlap. I mean, they're not in not perfectly, but, like, I'd say let me just say conservatively, let me just off the top of my head, I'd say at least close to half, if not 40 per about 40% of the portfolios had the same company. Right? And it's everything from the payment platform like PayPal and Stripe and Square and things to the, you know, Uber and Lyft and, you know, someone like Peter Thiel.
• 39:21
  He he funded what's called Newton. Newton is an adaptive learning courseware company. The head of Newton works at the at the World Economic Forum where he's a member he's a member of it. Right? And so, yeah.
• 39:35
  So all of these technologies, you know, you look at them as I was writing the book. When I finally stumbled onto the there was a documentary, there's an ABC documentary on the social credit system in China, I was like, this is what it looks like when it all comes together. You know, I was like focused on schooling. And, you know, when I started to look at like the wearables, they were pitching a lot of them as assistive technologies, which means like to help people with disabilities. So those the wearables for the heart rate, one of them is supposed to help you with test anxiety.
• 40:09
  Another one of the Brainwave wearable is supposed to help you with ADHD. But then I go, well, these are medical technologies. You can't just you have to have a documented disability, and anybody that's taught knows it. Like, you you can't even you you you can't say anything about any student's disability. You can't even ask.
• 40:27
  Like they have to on day one you tell them you're gonna read syllabus, hey, if you have a documented disability, go to disability center, get your paperwork, give it to me, then I accommodate you. Right? I can't go, Hey, anybody out there got a disability? Right? Because that's violating HIPAA stuff.
• 40:45
  Okay? So I'm looking at it and going like, Well, how are they gonna Basically, are they gonna merge HIPAA and FERPA? You know what I mean? There's like firewalls here. All it takes is the right emergency.
• 40:59
  And when lockdowns came along, right, I mean, you're being required to show health records just to get in the building. I said, this is foot in the door for social credit because, you know, now I'm you know, I thought there was gonna be there was gonna take time. They'd have to legislatively whittle away at it and, like, you know but but no. And a lot of that stuff is basically, in some ways, grandfathered in, if not if not in terms just culturally, in terms of the the fact that people went along with it. It might not be codified somewhere, but it's like, you know, sort of embedded in in the whole in the whole process.
• 41:38
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. And so in terms of the engineering of the children, right, so, you know, what you've done a good job of laying out what's actually a really, really complex system. Right? You you have to listen to Whitney Webb for about thirty hours straight to start to piece together some of these things. Right?
• 41:57
  Because it's really, really intricate in all the different connections and hidden connections and the circular funding and all this stuff that's happening with this system. You have that public private aspect where it's you have these government contracts coming, and there's always kickbacks, and there's data sharing and all that. But then looking at the actual children moving through the education system and when say education, I primarily mean the public school system. Right? You obviously have you have certain regulations based upon state, certain private schools sought to adhere to certain regulations to kinda fit into the the overall agenda.
• 42:30
  But let's look at the public school system. What would you say taking a child, say, a is a five year old child that moves through K to 12, K through 12, what would you say are they creating? What kind of child are they creating upon graduation, entering into the real world, or into the college, next step of college, what are they what are they engineering?
• 42:57
  John Klyczek: I mean, this is gonna sound creepy and dystopic, but I really think they just they want biological androids. They they want it so that most of the thought life, most of the psychic life of your mind is is is generative AI, is is a is a chatbot. Now that could be basically through eventually a Neuralink or something like that, but I keep telling I tell people all the time and they're like, you know, you get really freaked out about, like, the implantables. I mean, obviously, nobody I don't know. So maybe some people do want them.
• 43:31
  I don't, you know, I don't want them. You know, most people that are listening to this show, I'm sure, don't want them. But you
• 43:37
  Seth Holehouse: don't want
• 43:38
  John Klyczek: to have
• 43:38
  Seth Holehouse: Most people will still go and wear wear an Apple Watch and think nothing of it or a Fitbit or something.
• 43:43
  John Klyczek: Yeah. I and I've been in a few meetings and things where we were talking we were supposed to be talking about how to how to resist AI in the you were using an AI notetaker. Yeah. For for meeting, you know, I you know, maybe when we I'm sure we'll probably talk about solutions at some point, but that's one of them is like, listen. If you if you're doing stuff like that, I got a five point plan in there that's not gonna do anything if if you what I mean?
• 44:14
  And and but I I digress. Yeah. The If you all you have to do is use it. All you have to do is use AI enough. Outsource your thinking enough to AI where at least half or more of your inner monologue isn't yours.
• 44:34
  Where basically, you know, so people ask me, you know, and this is, I mean, this is literally the point which you would, I guess you probably would want in your head. You know, I mean, I don't know how many generations it would take, but let me say it like this. People, you know, can AI be used for good and things like that? I will say that, you know, I had a friend help me rebuild my computer, and I didn't want to bug him all the time. And so when I was trying to hook up the specs, you know, I would ask because I'm not gonna go on I could go on a forum and look around for the answer or I can just say, I have this type of model.
• 45:07
  I have this type of GPU. Are they compatible? You know, I mean, for very specific questions about stuff like that, okay. But I've also tried to you know, I've searched things. You know, it's the first thing that comes up in the search bar.
• 45:19
  So you type in like e s ESA, education savings accounts. Written some some articles on education savings account and how they tie into this whole system. Well, it it the first thing it pulls up is, and I'll say education savings account school choice. It says something about emergency service animals or emotional support animals in half the text, and the other half is about the school choice stuff. So, like, you know, you like, it's not able to abstract and distinguish.
• 45:49
  Okay? But in terms of language arts, okay, I can't speak to I don't teach math, you know, so maybe numeracy, maybe can't speak to that. But literacy, if there's any and George Orwell talks about this. Basically, the the thinking and writing or thinking and and speaking are basically covalent. Right?
• 46:11
  Like like, to refine your thinking, to to be to get better at thinking, which is, you know, if if learning is anything, it's that, is is to be able to basically master the inner monologue. To be able to monitor the inner monologue in your head, to, monitor it for contradictions, to be able to show that it right? The categories of the mind map onto the categories of reality. Right? This requires recursive metacognition.
• 46:40
  It means think it means listening in on your thoughts, thinking about what you're thinking and asking questions about it, and refining it. So the reason why I'm able to rattle off lots of, you know, names and dates and and, a lot of dense amount of information is because I've written about it. And when I write about something, there are many, many, many, many drafts. The first draft is basically just an outline of the key ideas I wanna cover. The second draft is basically just me without worrying about how precise, just saying the main things that I already know about each topic.
• 47:13
  Then it's going through and third is getting the research and getting the data to refine to make sure that right? How precise is everything? That always takes you on some detours here where you either expand stuff or maybe you taper things off and, right, you refine it. And then from there, there's another draft is, right, Is there a clear thesis at the beginning of the introduction? Does each body paragraph have a topic sense that connects to the thesis?
• 47:38
  Does each topic sense support it with, documented evidence? Is there a summary statement that ties the evidence into the topic sentence? Do all of this each transition flow to the next? Does it all tie back into the thesis? Right?
• 47:50
  And then the next draft and each one of these is like several drafts because it's a series that, know, I'll go back over it. But these are the different stages. And the next one is sentence level. So are there any unnecessary words or are there any words that could be just a little bit more precise? After I've done that, and I've checked every sentence, you know, unless it's a sentence where I'm summarizing what I what I just cited, every sentence has a citation in it.
• 48:18
  Even if it's something I've cited before or or like it's some a common fact that most people won't need a citation for, they still put it in. So once I've gotten to the point where I'm on a show and I talk about it, I've literally thought over it, over it, over it, over it. And it's not just that I know the map of the territory, right, the linguistic territory, but I'm confident in being able to name names and things. You know, The further I get away from it, if it's a year or two old, know, things get a little foggier. But all that is to say that if you're using generative AI, right, to help you write a paper, I don't care if it's you know, I mean, the the least probably pernicious would be like a a grammar checker, like a spell checker.
• 48:59
  Okay? But all the ideas and the organization and all that is your own, you've thought through it, but you just know, maybe you're not good at spelling and things. You wanna clean those things up. That's probably the least pernicious. But if you're using it to reorganize the draft for you, clarify your topic sentence, or I don't know, like generate a whole essay, which, you know, happens a lot nowadays, I have to say.
• 49:21
  You know, if you're doing all of that, you're not exercising that part of your brain. It's atrophying. It's cognitive offloading, I think is there I have a book back there. So Eric Schmidt of Google and Harry Henry Kissinger, it's a few years old, but they talk about this. I think it's cognitive atrophy or cognitive offloading.
• 49:40
  The more AI is integrated and used, right, the more that people will basically outsource their thinking. At that point, you know I mean, we're seeing the first generation of people who will grow up on this. I mean, remember during lockdowns, everybody was concerned about what is how is the emotional development of children gonna be affected in terms of not being able to read expressions during those formative years? Right? So what is the life of them?
• 50:11
  Will they even have a monologue? Or will so
• 50:17
  Seth Holehouse: they
• 50:18
  John Klyczek: used to during those developmental stages? Like deferring to or appealing to gendered AI chatbot or language model, how much of that metacognition goes away? How much and then right? So at that point, as I mentioned earlier, you are part of the machine. You are a you are you are quite literally a cog in the factory, and you don't have to have graphene threads plugged into your frontal lobe to to to to have you basically just just be a human, a human.
• 50:49
  Seth Holehouse: See. I see. So okay. Now it's it's really making sense because I know there's been a lot of information coming out about the younger generation, say, gen z. They've really rejected AI.
• 51:00
  There's been studies, they're actively sabotaging it in the workplace, they hate it. But it's kind of like, okay, we're gonna skip that generation. Because that generation, they grew up without it. It kind of came in for them maybe in their in their high school or college years, and they're seeing how it's changing the job market. And they're like, I don't like this at all.
• 51:18
  Yet, for a kid that is eight years old right now that just doesn't know anything but the kinda chatbot, Anna on their little Chromebook that they got, you know, via Bill Gates or, you know, Larry Fink or whatever, that it now I understand completely what you're I mean, not completely to the degree that you do, but it makes sense now that when you say because I'm gonna ask you the question, okay, what does that kid look like? What is the end goal of that kid coming out, entering into the world? And when you said basically kind of like an android, half android, it's like, oh, it makes sense. You know? Because I I do a lot of writing, as a way of, you know, kind of getting my thoughts on a paper.
• 51:58
  And I agree with you. Whenever I write something, it it sticks with me, you know, 10 or, you know, 50 times more than if I listen to it on a podcast or an audiobook. If I actually write something and pull together information for my own unique ideas, it sticks with me. But I can see though what you're saying that if there's that cognitive offloading, if these kids that are in this school system right now are trained to have this AI assistant that's helping them, then by the time they're graduating, they're a shell of a human. And their brains, I think, will almost barely function without the assistance of this digital, helper, this digital crutch.
• 52:41
  I mean, it's kinda similar to, you know, you look at the atrophying for not doing something. You know, I know you're you're very physically active in in martial arts and various things, and so you're I imagine for you, your brain and your body are this this very integrated machine that can enter into a headspace where, you know, you you know, you can predict your opponent's movements from a small little twitch in their in their thigh. You know, they're kinda lining up a leg kick. Right? And you're already kinda moving to to block that because it's it develops that machine.
• 53:09
  Because it's the opposite of being atrophy. It's being honed. But look at farming, for instance. You look at a farmer from, say, nineteen o five, you probably would never see a farmer that was fat. But, like, you know, I grew up in a farming community, and most of the farmers were fat because they spent their days sitting in a giant combine.
• 53:26
  They'd have the young kids like me that were doing the hay you know, putting hay up into the hay loft and that kind of stuff. But because the muscles needed to carry out that task have changed. And now all now all they do is they hop onto a computer, and they've got their their drones, and they've got their, you know, GPS mapped, you know, combines they're not even sitting in. And so you can see, how every time you introduce a new technology, the human ability to generate our own, you know, our own functions to perform these tasks, it atrophies. It kinda yeah.
• 53:58
  I think you end up in kinda the Wall E situation where you had this these fat people floating around in chairs, or you have idiocracy. Right? Even even more, I think, of a of a good documentary of the future of of humankind if we don't change things. And so it makes sense now that that's the the goal because then what you have cause ultimately, you you can see that, you know, you mentioned cyber, right, and steering. So the more they can get human beings to exist in the cyber realm, the more they can control every aspect of what we do versus the homesteader that's off grid that has a flip phone, not a smartphone.
• 54:35
  That's someone that is is really hard to control. But the young kid that grows up that's got an Apple Watch, got other wearable, maybe by that point he has a star, you know, not a Starlink, but maybe a brain chip, a Neuralink, that that human being is, in essence, it's like they're they're basically using this system as a factory to create slaves to a digital system because that digital system is where that's where they live, that's where their control exists. Ladies and gentlemen, our world is being poisoned. Every day we're exposed to more chemicals sprayed into our skies, leaching into our food, including our air and water. From pesticides and heavy metals to hormone disruptors and synthetic additives, these toxins are bombarding our bodies and silently destroying our health.
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• 56:43
  John Klyczek: There's a couple of things that that you say here that wanna I hope I hope I don't I can keep all of them. Don't drop one or the other. I have been punched in the head quite a few times. But well, the one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is in the embodiment of knowledge. And you you mentioned you you you mentioned, you know, martial arts.
• 57:05
  And I because I have a lot of different hats that I wear. I haven't done music in a while, but I usually go through like phases. Ever since this book came out in 2019, this is I haven't this has basically been, you know, this has been ninety nine percent of what I do that's not a, you know, other other family and professional duties. Haven't touched an instrument in a long time. But the martial arts thing is something that I always, I don't let it get away for too long.
• 57:35
  But there's always been phases where, you know, I would maybe train for you know, I did some amateur competitions, fights, whatever. And, you know, and then I I a lot of times I try to do that in between a semester, and then when I go back to school, I'd and anytime I took that break off, I come back and, you know, you still know the curriculum, but you feel things are not as tight. You know, you're not sitting down on your punch the same, and you can feel like it's kinda it's kinda bouncing off at the top and, you know, you're not turning as smooth. And and that makes perfect sense because it's a motor skill. Right?
• 58:04
  And if you haven't used the motor skill, you know, it would make sense that it wouldn't be as precise. But I abstract knowledge, not just bodily knowledge, not just kinesthetic knowledge, but, like, intellectual knowledge is the same way. And, you know, ever since lockdowns, I decided to stay online even though technically it doesn't really matter actually at this point because whether you're online or not, they make you put everything on the learning management system, and there are no more snow days or anything like that. If, you know, the only the only way you get off is if the electrical grid doesn't work. You know, if it's a snow day or some reason that, you know, weather and clemency, whatever, go home and plug in your machine because you're gonna go to school that day, you know, or you're at least gonna do the the the assignments.
• 58:53
  But I'm online, which means I haven't really lectured or, like, had, like, an actual discussion with students in a long time. And I know that, like and I still know ethos, logos, pathos. Right? And I still know, you know, the various I can break it down into different strategies or techniques for each. Right?
• 59:10
  And I but I know that I'd done that lecture so many times that it was it was tight. There was no point at which I'd have to go, oh, wait. I forgot to mention this. Or right? Everything was scaffolded from simple to complex, and there was no hiccups in it.
• 59:27
  And, right, I said I could explain things in you know, when you're doing when you're when you're trying to teach, you wanna be as clear and precise as possible, but you also don't wanna overexplain, which I probably do a lot. So but I I probably was better at it when I was when I was actually engaged in lecture. And my point is that the reason why it's not as tight is I haven't done it. So, like, right going through the it's I having abstract intellectual knowledge of a thing and and making it as refined and precise as possible is more or less covalent with getting a tightening a punch and getting getting that pathway tighter and right with with no wasted energy, no wasted movement. And it's the same thing with thinking.
• 1:00:21
  And so this is another reason why I think that I don't wanna go out go on a tangent here, I but this is related to why I am highly skeptical that whether or not something that they'll call AGI convinces us it's conscious, it's actually not. Now another thing that you sort of pointed at though too is that, you know, by it's not just that they'll be so these students will be so used to using these things and it'll just come second nature because it's the path of least resistance, but it's especially at higher ed, I can say this because higher ed, you should you're 18. You're 18 or older. Alright? You know, let's just say that some of the policies that are that they want the instructors to uphold kind of they kind of treat chill they kind of treat college kids like children.
• 1:01:17
  They they kind of, you know, they do not hold them to the same I I won't go into any particular disputes that I've had with particular policies or things like that. But the idea here is that they are not expected to be like responsible adults in the in the same way. I mean, college kind of prolongs childhood for, like, four more years. Well, if you prolong childhood and you're fill you know what I mean? And you're giving somebody the bot, You're you're and can I also say, this is kind of a side note that, you know, I do I I honestly believe that disabilities are over prescribed, let's say?
• 1:02:06
  And here's why I'll say that. This is just an anecdote, but I've had students that are officially autistic do just fine. I've had students that, you know, whatever it is, you know, they're not on the spectrum. So, you know, maybe it's ADHD or something like that. Don't do as good as the autistic students.
• 1:02:30
  You know, there, I had friends growing up that said that people, you know, that they were supposed to be ADHD. I don't know, maybe it's, maybe they did. Maybe it probably has something more to do with the institution and the environment that they're in. I hate to sound a little bit like BF Skinner here, but, so those three things together. Right?
• 1:02:53
  You're you're giving them look. The easiest way to do it is just, right, offload some of your thinking. And then it's like, oh, it's okay because, you know, no one's no one's, like, giving you sort of the tough love, like, you you gotta turn it on time. I mean, that's, like, one. Like, they're they're very loose with, like, deadlines and, like, a c is, in my opinion, not a c.
• 1:03:17
  Like, I would I wouldn't call that a c, but, you know, these are the these these types of things. It's like they're more concerned about, at the administrative level, obviously, getting the money, getting the enrollment, getting the social impact investment grants. What's the easiest way to do that? It's like in, you know, it's the equivalent of like a McDojo, you know, like these belt mills where nobody spars, nobody actually tests their techniques. So, I mean, you can do the kata, you know, and you can do all the forms, But what happens when you actually have to defend yourself?
• 1:03:56
  Right? If you do a martial arts school where, you know, it's like an actual combat sports gym, he might not sell as many he might have as many students. You know, once they get punched a few times, they might decide, I don't like this. Like, I don't wanna do this. Right?
• 1:04:12
  And education is sort of like, you know, make them as comfortable as possible. Make them as comfortable as possible. Get them in. Keep them in. Right?
• 1:04:24
  And then you know what? If he's if so what so little Jimmy's having him not doing so good, hey. Maybe he needs a disability accommodation. You're given this easy way out, you're treated like a child, and then that's reinforced by potentially somebody suggesting that, it's you have some biological or mental you know what mean? Your hardware is not it's not your fault.
• 1:04:51
  So don't even try. Don't even you know what I mean? Don't try to grow up and don't try harder. Like, this is appropriate for you. And so, all all of that together, you know, in in some ways, like so when we talk about Peter Thiel and these types of people, like, there's there is a clear endgame for them, and and it's a nefarious agenda that's been long in the making.
• 1:05:14
  But the main thing that drives it is apathetic people that don't want to have any more responsibility than than they need to feign to keep their status at their job or get their grant or you know what I mean? And so it's a lot of it's a lot of that. It's a, it's a lot of that. And it all just sort of breeds the type of student that, yeah, eventually here, I mean, you know, in a couple of generations, if it just keeps going that way. The only conversations anybody's want to have with me about AI in the classroom is like, how to catch students cheating or how to integrate it equitably.
• 1:05:58
  That's not I mean, you know, that tells me that we're just gonna keep onboarding this and integrating it more and more. And, you know, there might be some friction here and there, but, you know, as the generation sort of, you know, as as one generation gets older and sort of isn't part of the mix, you know what I mean, that that Overton window is just gonna keep moving. And, you know, I hate to sound, you know, not super positive, but that's what I see. That's what I see.
• 1:06:26
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. It's like they're just breeding a whole class of UBI recipients, People that are just so overwhelmed by the stress of the world and the stress of having a job that you give them the chance to you know, here's a UBI. They'll be like, oh, okay. Great. I'll take this.
• 1:06:42
  You know, we're not gonna own anything. You're gonna rent. Okay. That's easy. I don't need that.
• 1:06:46
  It's which, again, goes back to the original thesis of the discussion of just creating these slave bots, which What?
• 1:06:56
  John Klyczek: What? Well, you know what? It's interesting, you know, you know, you noticed that, you know, that so we talk we're talking about social credit here. Oh, I've got it right there. That's right.
• 1:07:08
  I got my dad built me another shelf here. I can grab it right here. Usually, it was in the other room. But so there's this thing so the term social credit, it actually goes back to in Canada. Right?
• 1:07:22
  So they had the technocracy movement in Canada. Right? And Elon Musk's granddaddy, Joshua Holdman, was was a higher up in that movement. Well, what a lot of people don't know is that he later he kinda had a falling out with the technocracy movement, and then he went and formed the Social Credit Party.
• 1:07:42
  Seth Holehouse: Imagine that. And guess what Elon Musk is always promoting? You know, universal basic income or universal high income. Right? Right.
• 1:07:52
  John Klyczek: That's where I was going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's in so here it is.
• 1:07:56
  I actually have a document. This is seventy something, but it's it's Canada and it's like, I think it's I think it's published by the Social Credit Party. I can't remember. I got this from Constance Cumbie. I don't know if you know who Constance Cumbie was, but she wrote the hit the hidden dangers of the rainbow in an an expose on the the new age movement.
• 1:08:17
  And I spent some time with her just like I did with Charlotte. I didn't spend as much time with Constance. But yeah. And another thing I just wanted to know was that well, so with the UBI, like, think what the system will be is you'll get a base UBI. I know he says universal high end, but what I really think is you're you're gonna get a base UBI.
• 1:08:40
  And then you'll get different, like, vouchers or impact investment goals. So you'll have, like, a school choice voucher, a housing voucher, or a workforce training voucher. Right? You know, health savings account, education savings account. Right?
• 1:08:59
  And then these will these you will get certain tokens to use for those parts, you know, so the health savings account, can use those for your medic medical stuff. The school choice stuff, you could use it for your school stuff. Right? But you only get those those are performance based tokens. Right?
• 1:09:16
  UBI is like, we'll start you here, like, you get enough. I don't know. Maybe it pays for, you know, some ramen noodles or something for the week. Whatever. It's gonna give you the rest of it is gonna be these it's gonna be funded by stakeholder capitalism public public private partnerships.
• 1:09:32
  And one other thing I wanted to note is, like, just to tie it into the the broader system, you know, I mentioned. So you'll have this bot. It'll follow you around all day and it'll tell you, I was driving yesterday and I heard on the radio Burger King. I don't know if you've heard this. They got it's basically like boss what they call bossware.
• 1:09:55
  The the if you work at Burger King now, you have to have a headset on, and there's an AI on it. It's called Patty. The AI is called Patty, and it tells you like, hey. So it monitors. Are you saying please and thank you to the customers?
• 1:10:09
  And then, like, it tells you like, you know, so and so has been waiting a while for his fries or the, you know, there's a table that needs cleaned in, like so you have this bot that's, like, constantly prompting you. And technically, if it's monitoring whether you say please and thank you, I mean, it's skin it's skinnarian. Right? Like, because if you don't say please, the boss might say, hey, you know, we cut your hours for a week or two until you start saying please and thank you. Right?
• 1:10:37
  And so, I mean, this is an example of like just in the general workforce. But just take that same bot and then program it not just with, you know, monitoring what you're doing in the workplace, but, you know, hooking it up to that blockchain ledger and having it walk you through your modules. Now there's
• 1:10:55
  Seth Holehouse: one of social credit system. Right? You jaywalk, you, you know, you you in your home on you know, over dinner, you're criticizing Xi Jinping. It's all being tracked. It's all being it's the same thing.
• 1:11:07
  You know, whereas Burger King, you you don't get a raise. In China, you can't get a home mortgage.
• 1:11:13
  John Klyczek: Let's pull this one up. So if you go into YouTube and you type in Brainco China, w s j, probably the first video you'll see is some Chinese kids in a classroom with halos on their heads, with digital halos, headbands. Okay? This is the focus this is the Brainco EEG Focus one wearable. It is created by so the guy that created his name is Bicheng Han.
• 1:11:39
  Remember the world in
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: China? Know exactly when someone isn't paying attention. These headbands measure each student's level of concentration. The information is then directly sent to the teacher's computer and to parents.
• 1:11:59
  Seth Holehouse: Oh, man. I I wasn't aware of that. That's like
• 1:12:02
  John Klyczek: Yeah. So
• 1:12:03
  Seth Holehouse: Like, when's that coming to America? I I can see like, you know, Trump's big next announcement with Melania walking out with a robot wearing one of these things.
• 1:12:11
  John Klyczek: Yeah. I forgot about the they were coming out with the Play Doh. So that company that that company, that or that device was designed by a partnership between Harvard Academics and a Chinese run state electronics corporation. Now, here's a here's a fun thing that I'm super proud of. I got an email not too long ago from Brainco.
• 1:12:32
  Wittens commented on an article, one of the first times I wrote about it from six years ago. And the publication where I wrote about it, they were like, this is this is solid. We ain't taking it down. What, you know, why are you bothering him and us after six years later? And they were like, said something about messing with their investment dollars.
• 1:12:51
  So I was happy about that. They tried to say that they are not funded by the China Electronics Corporation. And I said, I cited I mean, like, I'm citing what EdSurg reported in 2017. Tell EdSurg to take it down. If you can get EdSurg to take it down, you you know, I'll say it down.
• 1:13:13
  I'm reporting on the public record. So I'm not I'm not doing anything libelous or slime. I'm saying that yeah. And that's where the citation is. Like, you know, I don't know why, you know, I would guess if it really was a thing, they'd have got Ed Certs to take it.
• 1:13:26
  So that's why I wrote them politely. It was very nice. I just said, you know, like, here's my citation. You know, once you get them to take it down, I'll take it down. So here's the thing about those.
• 1:13:38
  Those are externals, but you can do a lot of the same stuff as an implantable. Like, so there's, you know, it's two ways. Like, can receive signals, you can transmit signals as well. And some of them, the new the newest thing that they're in that they're working on is, they've got if you go to the actual Brainco website, I think you see the the first thing you'll see is a video of a they've got a brain computer interface that will operate a five digit robot hand for there it is. Right?
• 1:14:06
  So that thing, I guess, I don't know if it's a pretty sure it's an external wearable. So you put a headband on or something. And if you're an amputee, you can operate this hand with it. Okay? And so I think one of the reasons why they so I guess there's a law here in The United States that you cannot, as an American, fund Chinese state run companies.
• 1:14:32
  You can you can fund Chinese private companies, but not so I guess the fact that they are
• 1:14:38
  Seth Holehouse: That's why they're so that's why they're so upset about the kind of the them being tied to the state run company.
• 1:14:45
  John Klyczek: Yeah. And and so but it's interesting because I I look at this. This is where my mind goes. Because this this is kind of a new development. Like, I don't know.
• 1:14:53
  Like, are they gonna sell a bunch of limbs to I mean, we're we're in we're getting into I hate to say it like that, but we're basically on the eve of World War three here. You know what I mean? Like, there could be a lot of people that need limbs soon is what I'm kinda getting at. And maybe, you know, there might be a deal to because again, I mean, the technology is developed between people from Harvard and people from China, and one of them goes to the World Economic Forum. So but the reason why I brought this up is that there's something called bossware where they basically implant the same those types of EEGs, they just put them in the headset.
• 1:15:31
  So that Burger King patty, I don't know if it has it in there now. I'm guessing it doesn't. But eventually, it's very easy to just add the other the sensors to read the brainwaves and then have them know not just are you actually what what are you saying, but, like, how do you feel about it when you say it? You know, we heard you say thank you. We didn't like that you we could tell that you didn't weren't pleased.
• 1:15:55
  We want our you know, like in Brave Brave. In 1984, where Winston, they're torturing him and he's like, okay. I love Big Brother. And they're like, no. No.
• 1:16:02
  No, Winston. It's not enough that you say it. We you have to believe it. You actually have to love Big Brother. And that's what the effective censors are for because then, you know, if you're if you're a sharp kid, you know, and you're doing your essay and you're like, I know that the teacher wants me to say this about this this historical event.
• 1:16:21
  I don't believe that, but I wanna get a passing grade. So I'm just gonna go and repeat the thing in the lecture, try to get the essay off. And if it's monitoring you while you're typing, they go, no. No, Billy. We know you don't believe that, so you don't get credit for that.
• 1:16:37
  Maybe it's a penalty of certain percentage or something like that. Yeah. And also, you
• 1:16:42
  Seth Holehouse: can imagine it's going both ways too, right? Where obviously they can read these signals, they can then send signals. So you imagine, okay, let's take it out of the classroom, take it into the implantable chip. Let's just say that by 2050, it's requirement you have to have an implantable chip. It saves a whole breakaway civilization of Luddites that are living off grid that refuse to get the chip, right, and therefore cannot participate in society.
• 1:17:04
  But it could be something where it's kind of the digital soma where it's, okay. Hey. You're feeling a little anger while you're driving. So just like and you're be like, okay. I am no longer angry.
• 1:17:16
  Because it's just kinda it's sending the break. Because they know they can do that. They can use and they can use harp to do that, let alone something attached inside of your head. I mean, then now you basically have you have a robot slave society.
• 1:17:28
  John Klyczek: Well, I was gonna say it's something I wrote about in my book. There's another company called Kernel, k e r n e l. Right? And it's sort of a play on, you know, the Kernel is like the main part of your operating system. Right?
• 1:17:40
  But it's an ex they are well, they've been working on yes. So that's an external. Okay? If our memory serves me correctly, they have at least done some R and D on implantables. Now there was this one project they did, I wish I could remember the name of it, but they were putting the helmets on people, giving them psychotropics, I think ketamine and other things.
• 1:18:05
  And then their data they're tracking the brainwave patterns. What types of electrical signals does the brain produce when they're on a certain psychotropic? Right? Well, to your point. Right?
• 1:18:18
  If you ingest a chemical and then your brain goes like, you know, whatever waves, and then that induces a a psychic event, you know, so certain emotions, certain thoughts, certain perceptive, right, phenomena, then theoretically, and I think this is what they're trying to do. I mean, I think I think this is why they're studying it is that theoretically, it would be like you could call it with an electroceutical. Meaning, like Oh, goodness. If you can blast the brain with waves to make it produce the same electrical patterns that are present when you've ingested the substance, then would that not elicit the same emotional, cognitive, psychic effects? And and so, I mean, what you're what you're speculating on, like, they have the device.
• 1:19:05
  They've done studies that you could use to, you know, to get the the information, the data to actually develop that form of what the technology could do. So, I mean, it's not it's not impossible. You know what I mean? It's not it's not out there at all, honestly. You know?
• 1:19:23
  And especially, look, what if they what if you were flagged as mentally ill? Then it would be like and I, you know, I said this on with the lockdowns. I said, if they can mandate you know, this is like foot in the door for mandating a brain chip or something like that. Because if they can say that for the for the sake of public health, they can invade your body, alter your physiology, and put something in there to protect other people, well then public health also could be public mental health. And you and if you're a danger to other people because you're mentally ill and potentially a terrorist, then the same logic applies.
• 1:20:02
  We can invade your body with a with an implantable or a wearable, blast it with an electrical signal to put your brain waves in a state that we know is safe for the other people in your neighborhood.
• 1:20:15
  Seth Holehouse: Gosh. And then and then let's just imagine there's some fictional scenario where they had some sort of mind control program where they could have sleeper assassins that were activated through certain things that would then do school shootings and, you know, assassination attempts through some sort of, you know, program they have using SSRIs and all kinds of stuff. And so then what they do is they can create the the fear campaign. They have a series of mass shootings that then justifies, hey. This is now why we need to have these chips because if we detect the behavior that indicates you might do some sort of mass shooting, it's the same I mean, it's the where we're it in the cars.
• 1:20:50
  You know, 2027 on, all the new cars are gonna have this monitoring. So if you get in and they say, well, look, our AI is saying that you are drunk or tired or whatever it is, you're no longer allowed to use your car. You know, again, then now they're actually kind of mandating the ability they're they're using this monitoring and this AI, making a judgment of your physiological state, your psychological state to determine whether you can drive somewhere. This is the it's the next step. Right?
• 1:21:16
  Oh, we had a series of mass shootings by all these people that have these weird ties to ex military, and their fathers were all in intelligence agencies, and okay. Don't look there. Right? And so now we're gonna have to have a mandated brain chip to, make sure that we have a peaceful and safe society where we can no longer have crime, we can no longer have terrorism, we no longer have violence. And what we have is a population injected full of digital soma.
• 1:21:44
  Yeah. And It's orgy porgy time.
• 1:21:47
  John Klyczek: And and and, you know, just in terms of the the educational angle of that system, a lot of this stuff is in fact or connected to the military. So there's a Elon Musk had there's a new school. I wish I could remember the name of it, but it's funded by SpaceX. It's totally a it's a fully AI online school. Do I have it in here?
• 1:22:13
  No. I don't have it in my database yet, so I don't remember the name of it. But it's just another it's just one example of talking about the guy with the brain chip with the x AI, and he's got this online school that's AI, entirely AI funded. And I think this is new research, so it's a little foggy on me, but there's another one. It's either that one or another one that's got Lockheed Martin associated with it.
• 1:22:38
  But the development, the early development of intelligent tutoring, this is the office enabled research. Right? And actually, I have a there I have a document. So I have an article, it's called NEA World Orders on Unlimited Hangout. I wrote it a few years ago.
• 1:22:54
  And I looked at the there's the history of teaching machines, BF Skinner's teaching machines, and there's a document in there. It's called teaching machines and program instruction. And it's got Skinner in there. It's got Sydney L. Pressey, who was actually the first guy to come up with an analog teaching machine.
• 1:23:10
  But it's got these two other guys, Arthur a Lumsdain and Robert Glaser. And both of these guys have connections. It's been a while. I know one of them for sure has connections to the military. I think both of them do.
• 1:23:24
  But the document itself was funded by the army, the human resources research organization, which focuses on, quote unquote, human capital management. Okay? And I think it's also a partnership with air force, other military agencies. And so, you know, and this was I think that document is early sixties. Okay?
• 1:23:47
  And this is around the same time that, again, BF Skinner. So he's coming up with his teaching machines, getting funded by the military at the same time that Mises Cybernetics and RAND Corporation are basically doing all this forecasting for when they can install everything. And now you have someone like Elon Musk, right, who's got, you know, Musk has everything from he's got social media, he's got a satellite company, he's got a brain chip company Finance. He's got self driving cars, he's got I mean, there's not much of anything that he doesn't have his hands right. And he wants to move into x payments, basically make x like like WeChat.
• 1:24:23
  There's very little that he doesn't have his hands in. And then he has military contract, you know, so does Palantir. Right? And so I think the China system is a good if you wanna see what it's gonna look like one day, that's a good example. But, you know, we got Palantir right here.
• 1:24:42
  You know? So, you know, when people are like, is when well, when is it coming here? It kinda is already here. It's just kinda you're just kind of waiting for, you said, some some event, some crisis, some something that will enable them to ram through the legislative green light to integrate all this stuff and to and to put it all in in one comprehensive database and then hold you accountable for it, etcetera.
• 1:25:09
  Seth Holehouse: Exactly. So well, in closing, because we we we've we've we've I I thought we'd keep going, but I wanna kind of be mindful of your time and and the audience's time. And so, in closing, if you had to give people a few basic things they can do, right, were the action steps. Okay. How do you how do you fight back?
• 1:25:28
  How do you protect? How do you keep your freedom? What would you tell people?
• 1:25:34
  John Klyczek: Well, I mean, in in the education realm, I think it's a it's a two pronged front. And so, you know, one is I think homeschooling, creating parallel structures. Okay? So that means, you know, find some people in your neighborhood that you share your values with, you know, you make a co op or a pod. Okay?
• 1:25:55
  Abstain from the school choice money, from the vouchers and the neo vouchers. These come with government strings attached. If you read my most two recent articles at unlimited hangout, actually, the most recent and then the the third most recent. Project twenty twenty five to the PayPal presence presidency and then the other one was another project twenty twenty five piece. It's looking at how they were promoting all the the ESAs and basically got it got it through in the the big beautiful bill.
• 1:26:22
  But I look at how the how the digital wallet companies, the third party companies are funded by PayPal, Movies, and all that. But I look at the legislative bills for various states to show you that when you take those monies, if you're trying to get out of the government schools, what's happening is if you take that voucher money, that NEO voucher money, you'll have to complete standardized tests, but some of them have health requirements. Right? So if you were leaving because of lockdowns, right, you know, and and and and so that's on the that's on the one side. But on the other is, like, you have to defend the public school.
• 1:27:03
  You can't abandon the public schools. I feel like if everybody and and my my mentor, Charlotte Thompson, your be right? Was was very much in favor of homeschooling parallel structures, but she was also very much a a staunch defender of the public school system. And, you know, it's it's the same deal. You know, you find people there that share your values and then you make the institution represent your values.
• 1:27:27
  If we all jump into one system or another, especially if if you if you think you're gonna be safe by just like bowing out of the public system, jumping into a homeschool, certainly, if you take that voucher or neo voucher money, then it's only gonna be a matter of time until there's, you know, whoever gets in, you know, changing of the guard, and then they basically tell you that, well, since you're taking government money, if you want to keep that money, right, here here's here's here's the new thing you have to do. And they'll onboard, you know, piece by piece. I mean, think of think of the early Internet, you know, where, you know, everybody could be monetized, you know, the basically, the popularity was the core of the algorithm and, you know, well, once everybody got, like, got locked into that system, relied on it for income, then you got debanked, then you got deplatformed, then you started to get shadowed. All these things coming slowly after they've sort of kettled you into the other, the other pen, so to speak, then they can start to put in all of this skitter box mechanism.
• 1:28:39
  So so, you know, you go to the public school. And look, you can do both. They're not mutually exclusive. Like, can go homeschool. You can still go to the school board meeting, and you can right?
• 1:28:47
  Because you're taking your tax dollars. And you can say, hey, if you'd like my tax dollars, if you'd like my attendance dollars, because they're right, the seats students in the seats brings attendance dollars. You know, change these policies so that, right, you reflect the local values, and I'll bring and I'll bring my children back. Right? Be very careful.
• 1:29:05
  Don't don't be too colorful or spirited in your rhetoric. You don't wanna get accidentally labeled with terrorists, which has happened, you know. But those are the those are the two things. And I would say that in terms of like, you know, learning in general, you know, I have a five point sort of program. So the first is local control, public control.
• 1:29:25
  That means the two things I just said. The second one is ban the behaviorist pedagogy or methodology. So this means not just the behaviorist meta methodology that's built into the algorithms. Right? Because as we mentioned, those stimulus responses.
• 1:29:39
  But, you know, the entire even before all things EdTech, you know, you had behaviorist method is one that is built largely on extrinsic rewards. Right, with gold stars, detentions, right? And you don't which trains a student that hamstrings their own intellectual curiosity. It trains them that nothing is worth learning unless I am externally motivated by some other extrinsic reward. And this this basically makes it so that nobody the students cannot become autodidact.
• 1:30:12
  So that's the second one. The third one is ban the data mining, you know, all of it. I would say all of it. I mean, you know, some things need functional cookies, you know, but definitely no psychometrics, no biometrics, none of that type of stuff. No predictive analytics, definitely none of that.
• 1:30:29
  And then the last one is return to the classical method. So this is, right, the trivium, grammar, logic, and rhetoric, but also history and civics as opposed to social credits or social credits, social studies, and critical theory. And then the last one is I I I, you know, I think that classical method should also be grounded in. There should be a history of philosophy and part of that needs to involve metaphysics, right? Not just postmodern sort of, you know, philosophy and empirics, etcetera.
• 1:31:00
  I think that I think metaphysics, the study of, you know, could be as broad as historical mythopoetics and, you know, the transcendent values that human beings possess that make us human. Right? Like, like a priori philosophy, you know, so that the conversation can sort of move move back in that direction. So those those are the things that I would I would recommend. But in the broader scale, I kind of touched on it earlier.
• 1:31:31
  As long as you are utilizing these devices, right, as long as you're outsourcing, you're thinking, I mean, you're feeding the machine. I know, I mean, it's almost impossible to not feed it in some way, but you make small moves. Like, I still have a Gmail. I I haven't got around to because I just don't have the time to have to redo all my but that's something I need to do in that direction. Right?
• 1:31:55
  I don't need to be giving Google my data. Right? A certain you know, and so any way that you can use something that's open source, right, that's not proprietary, that doesn't do all this data tracking, you know, all of that is important, you know, and sort of tie the two together, you know, you know, don't use the device as a babysitter, you know, and things and things like that. But that's those are sort of I guess those are the most practical things I could suggest.
• 1:32:21
  Seth Holehouse: So so basically just in every way possible, hold on to your humanity and don't hand it over to the machine. Right? John, I'm gonna pull your website up, and I'll have it linked in the description as well. It's schoolworldorder.info. There you can buy your recent book, School World Order.
• 1:32:41
  You can also look at your conferences, presentations, interviews, etc. Follow you on different social channels, donate to support your work. Yeah, John, I mean, this a fun conversation. I mean, it's pretty dystopian, but I think our energy was not both of us saying, oh, man, we're really screwed. This is real bad.
• 1:33:01
  I mean, you know, there's a lot of people like us that are saying, okay. Hey. This is what's happening. Here's how we can fight back against it. Here's how we can, you know, make take steps to maintain our own sovereignty, our own freedom, and protect our kids.
• 1:33:11
  And, ultimately, if if that's what comes into society, you know, in the future, we got some sort of breakaway civilization of homeschooled kids that are independent and thinking strong and growing gardens and living out the land and and maintaining that. And we can build that, we're still trying to, as you mentioned, do what we can to affect what's happening in the public space the best we can while still protecting our own independence, you know, whatever whatever it takes to do that. And so I just I thank you for giving us your time today. Thank you for your patience with a few of our tech hiccups, earlier. And I really, really enjoyed speaking with you.
• 1:33:44
  So, thank you.
• 1:33:46
  John Klyczek: Well, thank you. It a pleasure. Anytime.
• 1:33:50
  Seth Holehouse: Awesome. Great. Well, thank you. Take care, man. It's nice to nice to meet you and chat with you.
• 1:33:55
  John Klyczek: Right on. You too, brother.
• 1:33:57
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• 1:34:21
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• 1:34:53
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