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How Cade Cavalli's Extension Sets The Nationals Up For Success · District Territory

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the District Territory podcast. I'm Eric Shellhouse
0:08
Speaker 1: from Bat Boys Baseball and joining me today from St. Louis,
0:11
Speaker 1: Spencer Nussbaum of The Athletic. It has been an exciting,
0:14
Speaker 1: busy past couple of days for the Nationals, but the
0:17
Speaker 1: big news, they have got their guy, Kate Cavalli, is
0:20
Speaker 1: extended and going to be staying in Washington for a while. Spencer,
0:24
Speaker 1: the Nationals have not thrown out an extension like this
0:27
Speaker 1: in quite a while. what does this signify, I guess,
0:30
Speaker 1: from ownership that they are maybe willing to spend a
0:34
Speaker 1: little bit here?
0:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to be very careful with how I
0:40
Speaker 2: phrase this, right? I will say ownership, Paul, Cade, everyone
0:45
Speaker 2: deserves credit for this. I think ownership deserves credit for
0:49
Speaker 2: actually committing to someone at this price tag, right? where
0:54
Speaker 2: I think it is an exceptionally smart move by the team,
0:58
Speaker 2: but also one that isn't necessarily cheap. At the same time,
1:01
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, what it is is
1:03
Speaker 2: you're buying out one year after free agency and potentially two,
1:09
Speaker 2: and you have to power that decision with a club option.
1:13
Speaker 2: So it's not like they signed him to a 10-year deal,
1:18
Speaker 2: nor would I say they necessarily... should sign anyone to
1:23
Speaker 2: a 10-year deal um i shouldn't say anyone but i
1:26
Speaker 2: think the listeners understand what i'm saying um but no
1:30
Speaker 2: i think it was a smart move on all parts
1:31
Speaker 2: and i i do think um the biggest question i
1:35
Speaker 2: get from nationals fans is are the learners going to
1:40
Speaker 2: spend on this team again and i i don't think
1:42
Speaker 2: i or anyone including maybe them would be able to
1:47
Speaker 2: give you a solid answer of what exact dollar figure
1:51
Speaker 2: or even close to it, they're going to spend comfortable spending, etc.
1:58
Speaker 2: But that's a big question. And at least in part,
2:01
Speaker 2: they answered that they were willing to pay Cade for
2:05
Speaker 2: one to two more years after arbitration. And I think
2:09
Speaker 2: that is meaningful.
2:11
Speaker 1: And he just went out and absolutely dominated later in
2:15
Speaker 1: the day, carrying the Nationals en route to a 9-1 victory.
2:19
Speaker 1: He gave them five shutout innings, picked up his 200th
2:22
Speaker 1: strikeout of the season. The ERA is now down to
2:25
Speaker 1: a 3-0-2. This is impressive now, Spencer. Simply remarkable. I
2:31
Speaker 1: don't think anyone could have written this up at the
2:33
Speaker 1: start of the year. But you tweeted out also his
2:35
Speaker 1: goals that he had set at Oklahoma State. and this
2:39
Speaker 1: really just stuck out to me. The Nationals definitely got
2:42
Speaker 1: this deal to the right guy. He also, I think,
2:45
Speaker 1: spoke a little bit about how he spoke with Ryan
2:47
Speaker 1: Zimmerman about his extension and what it meant for Zim
2:52
Speaker 1: to kind of be a face of the franchise here.
2:55
Speaker 1: Is there anything you can add in on that front?
2:58
Speaker 1: And I guess Katie.
3:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I wrote a story that I had been
3:04
Speaker 2: reporting out for a while, but... kind of obviously felt
3:08
Speaker 2: like the right time to drop it. Right. Uh, that
3:12
Speaker 2: talks a lot about the decisions that Kate has made
3:15
Speaker 2: over the years. He, uh, and I have talked a
3:18
Speaker 2: number of times this year about his mantra to kind
3:21
Speaker 2: of like make the next right choice in the sense
3:24
Speaker 2: that a lot of times you have to make small
3:27
Speaker 2: but difficult decisions, uh, to see payoff in the future. Um,
3:33
Speaker 2: Am I wording that perfectly? No, but I think the
3:35
Speaker 2: idea is sacrifice in the short term to benefit in
3:37
Speaker 2: the long term. And those sacrifices are, again, like, you know,
3:42
Speaker 2: you bring up the note at Oklahoma, putting the team
3:45
Speaker 2: before himself when he was there, you know, not being
3:48
Speaker 2: a two-way player there because pitching full-time is what was
3:52
Speaker 2: best for the team or during his injuries, right? When
3:57
Speaker 2: he was with the Nationals, it was, Taking it day
4:01
Speaker 2: by day, the first year, sure, but it was also
4:03
Speaker 2: that second year when his elbow was barking and he
4:06
Speaker 2: was already sick of how long he had spent on rehab.
4:10
Speaker 2: You know, being willing to go to the team and say, hey,
4:12
Speaker 2: I think we need to shut me down. It's in
4:14
Speaker 2: that third year, right, where the team is, you know,
4:17
Speaker 2: kind of, I mean, candidly, maybe not handling his injury
4:21
Speaker 2: the way that they should, right, where... not as a
4:27
Speaker 2: medical expert, right. But it's, it's difficult as a pitcher
4:29
Speaker 2: to not know exactly how long you're going to throw. Um,
4:32
Speaker 2: and being able to push through that, uh, despite maybe
4:35
Speaker 2: the team's lack of transparency, just to put it more concisely, um,
4:39
Speaker 2: he's made a thousand decisions over the years and they
4:42
Speaker 2: all pay off in a moment like this. And, um, yeah,
4:45
Speaker 2: when you bring up Ryan Zimmerman as well, uh, the
4:48
Speaker 2: two of them talked, uh, throughout kind of the course
4:50
Speaker 2: of this extension. And, um, yeah, I mean, Zim is
4:55
Speaker 2: someone who spent years and years and years in D.C.,
4:57
Speaker 2: some very rough years early on, and it culminated in
5:01
Speaker 2: a World Series. And Cade heard that and said, yeah,
5:05
Speaker 2: I can sign up for that. It's been some rough
5:07
Speaker 2: years for him via injuries. This season, even with the
5:11
Speaker 2: team outperforming expectations, still having a losing record. But he's
5:15
Speaker 2: someone who is fired up by the idea of what
5:18
Speaker 2: is to come. And so I think in that sense...
5:22
Speaker 2: He he is a really great culture fit on the Nationals.
5:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I enjoyed Franny in the pregame today before the game, too.
5:30
Speaker 1: He was mentioning how just other the teammates, you know,
5:33
Speaker 1: they kind of vibe off of seeing a guy that
5:36
Speaker 1: deserves to get paid, get his due. And I think
5:40
Speaker 1: that the team, you know, gelled off of that and
5:43
Speaker 1: have played some pretty good games of late. And there's
5:45
Speaker 1: another guy they got to be really excited for. Josiah
5:48
Speaker 1: Gray returned to a big league mound for the first
5:50
Speaker 1: time since April 2024. And he looked good. He looked
5:54
Speaker 1: sharp out there, man, in a relief role, something that
5:57
Speaker 1: we are not accustomed to seeing from him. But what
6:01
Speaker 1: looked good from him the other night and how much
6:04
Speaker 1: did that mean to him to come back?
6:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it was all the stuff that we're
6:10
Speaker 2: used to seeing from Josiah. Deep pitch mix, funky arm angle,
6:14
Speaker 2: two things that he hopes the organization can help him
6:16
Speaker 2: maximize even more under this new coaching staff. He's really
6:20
Speaker 2: excited about that. But yeah, I mean, so little of
6:23
Speaker 2: this is about his velocity or spin rate or whatever.
6:28
Speaker 2: As you were alluding to, so much of this is
6:30
Speaker 2: just about what it took to get back here right.
6:34
Speaker 2: Really similar to Cade, honestly, in that way, where it
6:36
Speaker 2: was almost three full years between, you know, outings. It
6:42
Speaker 2: was setbacks. It was pushing through. It was long days
6:47
Speaker 2: in Florida. Like it was, you know, if any of
6:51
Speaker 2: us had to spend, you're not spending every day there,
6:54
Speaker 2: but basically three full years in Florida, not doing what
6:57
Speaker 2: you loved, like having to do really mundane tasks to
7:01
Speaker 2: get back there. That's an unbelievably tough thing to go
7:06
Speaker 2: through and, Josiah even said, right, like he doubted at
7:10
Speaker 2: times that the call was ever going to come again
7:11
Speaker 2: until it finally did. So it's it's unbelievably meaningful. I mean,
7:17
Speaker 2: Cade candidly, when we were talking to him after after
7:21
Speaker 2: his outing, he was more choked up and more emotional.
7:24
Speaker 2: Choked up is a strong word, but he's more emotional about.
7:27
Speaker 2: what Josiah had been through than the fact that he
7:29
Speaker 2: just secured life changing money for himself. Right. Um, shows
7:34
Speaker 2: what Josiah means to the guys who know him. Um,
7:37
Speaker 2: it shows that both of them know what each other
7:40
Speaker 2: have been through and, um, yeah, can't, can't honestly say
7:44
Speaker 2: enough about, um, that, that moment of Josiah coming back. Uh,
7:49
Speaker 2: that was, that was just really, really cool to watch. Yeah. Yeah.
7:53
Speaker 1: And we'll be seeing him out of the bullpen for
7:56
Speaker 1: the rest of this season. But is it on the
7:58
Speaker 1: Nationals radar to hopefully ramp him back up come next
8:02
Speaker 1: season and maybe be in the conversation for the starting
8:05
Speaker 1: rotation spring training whenever that may be?
8:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's all too early to tell on
8:11
Speaker 2: pitching in the bullpen now. I think Nationals have a
8:15
Speaker 2: lot of decisions of. um, not only who to keep around,
8:20
Speaker 2: but who to switch between the bullpen and the starting rotation.
8:23
Speaker 2: And that's not me saying, oh, they're having extension, extensive
8:27
Speaker 2: conversations about who goes where. Um, but I know they're
8:31
Speaker 2: having those conversations. They, um, kick a lot of ideas around.
8:34
Speaker 2: And I think Josiah will be, um, one of those
8:38
Speaker 2: people if they, um, ultimately keep him, uh, through this winter. So, um, yeah,
8:44
Speaker 2: definitely not sure of what his future is, but, um, candidly,
8:49
Speaker 2: I think it would be really neat to see him
8:52
Speaker 2: pitching the big leagues as long as possible, you know,
8:55
Speaker 2: role aside.
8:57
Speaker 1: Really quickly, I want to remind all of our viewers
8:59
Speaker 1: and listeners to subscribe to the show on YouTube, Apple Music, Spotify,
9:04
Speaker 1: wherever you're listening. Do not want to miss any of
9:06
Speaker 1: the episodes into the offseason. And of course, we have
9:09
Speaker 1: the Eli Willits baseball card giveaway, signed baseball card. You
9:13
Speaker 1: don't want to miss that. And The list just keeps
9:16
Speaker 1: going on of what happened Friday night. CJ Abrams became
9:19
Speaker 1: the second Nationals to record a 30-30 season since the
9:25
Speaker 1: team moved to D.C. in 2005, joining Alfonso Soriano with,
9:29
Speaker 1: of course, his 40-40 season. Excited to see if PCA
9:32
Speaker 1: can get there. I think it's happening. But CJ, we've
9:36
Speaker 1: talked about what it would mean for him to put
9:38
Speaker 1: it together over the course of an entire season, but
9:41
Speaker 1: I guess... What did it mean to him to be
9:44
Speaker 1: solidified in the ranks of Nationals history? Yeah, he.
9:51
Speaker 2: Honestly, per usual, you know, didn't wax poetic about it
9:56
Speaker 2: or didn't, um, you know, say that it was the
9:59
Speaker 2: greatest thing that ever happened to him. Cause I, I
10:01
Speaker 2: don't think it was, but, um, he absolutely said it
10:04
Speaker 2: was meaningful to him, right? Like, uh, to the extent
10:07
Speaker 2: that it was a goal before the season. Again, I
10:09
Speaker 2: wouldn't like overstate that, but, um, ultimately he said his
10:13
Speaker 2: goal is to impact the game as much as he can. Um,
10:16
Speaker 2: and when you are doing 30, 30 and on top
10:18
Speaker 2: of that, having 30 doubles, um, um, yeah, you're impacting
10:21
Speaker 2: the game quite a bit. So for him to finish
10:24
Speaker 2: the season out strong like this, um, to have that
10:26
Speaker 2: next to his name, it, it kind of goes to
10:28
Speaker 2: show you for whatever you think of, um, his defense
10:33
Speaker 2: or what his feature is with the team. Um, he
10:35
Speaker 2: has had one of the most impactful seasons in recent
10:38
Speaker 2: nationals history. Um, I would argue since the start of
10:41
Speaker 2: this rebuild, probably him, James and Cade have had the
10:45
Speaker 2: three most impactful and they're all happening this season. Um,
10:49
Speaker 2: it's possible I'm forgetting someone, but yeah, it's, it's been
10:55
Speaker 2: a joy to watch him this season and really cool
10:58
Speaker 2: to see him reach that milestone.
11:01
Speaker 1: Yeah. Congratulations to him. And just really, I don't think
11:05
Speaker 1: it's a stretch to say that this was the best
11:07
Speaker 1: day that this franchise has had in a while there.
11:11
Speaker 1: Obviously it's been some dark days since 2019, but they,
11:14
Speaker 1: in that game, you get the extension earlier in the day, Cobb,
11:18
Speaker 1: caps off an incredible season we'll have one more start
11:21
Speaker 1: but an incredible season for him Josiah's return CJ making
11:25
Speaker 1: history and then getting the most wins since 2019 and
11:29
Speaker 1: they stacked another one on uh earlier tonight it took
11:32
Speaker 1: 11 innings there were two blown saves unfortunately Andrew Alvarez
11:35
Speaker 1: just cannot seem to find a win but the Nats
11:38
Speaker 1: still found a way to plot out uh James Wood
11:41
Speaker 1: was removed from the eighth inning it did I guess
11:45
Speaker 1: end up impacting the game in some degree to uh
11:48
Speaker 1: the fact that he didn't bat there in the extra
11:49
Speaker 1: innings that Spencer walk us through, I guess, Blake's decision
11:53
Speaker 1: to pull him out there.
11:55
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I got this wrong in the tweet, so
11:58
Speaker 2: I should clarify here. It was the ninth inning, the
12:00
Speaker 2: top of the ninth. James hit a ground ball to
12:04
Speaker 2: first base. It looked like the Cardinals first baseman was
12:08
Speaker 2: going to secure it and easily throw it. So James
12:10
Speaker 2: hustles out of the box and then starts to slow up.
12:15
Speaker 2: The first baseman ultimately bobbled it. If James had been
12:18
Speaker 2: running hard the whole time, it looked like he would
12:20
Speaker 2: have beat it out. He did not. And so he
12:25
Speaker 2: kind of walks back to the dugout and ultimately ends
12:29
Speaker 2: up sitting on the bench for the rest of the game.
12:32
Speaker 2: Blake told him that he had been pulled from the game.
12:35
Speaker 2: In part, obviously, it was due to obviously wanting a
12:39
Speaker 2: Jacob Young in there defensively in extra innings. But yeah,
12:43
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of interesting threads to pull
12:45
Speaker 2: on when it's a a rookie manager pulling his superstar
12:51
Speaker 2: late in the game, late in the season for something
12:54
Speaker 2: that we've talked about a couple of times, right. Has
12:55
Speaker 2: been in some unfortunate moments. And I, I don't really
13:01
Speaker 2: think it's intentional in the sense that like it's happened
13:05
Speaker 2: a couple of times when the ball has been bottled,
13:07
Speaker 2: but the nationals want to set a standard here. And yeah,
13:10
Speaker 2: James was pulled from the game. We talked to both
13:13
Speaker 2: Blake and James post game and, Um, Blake said, again,
13:16
Speaker 2: they kind of just have to remind him, um, they
13:19
Speaker 2: want him to maximize his talent. And part of that
13:22
Speaker 2: is not just crushing the ball. It is, um, maximizing
13:27
Speaker 2: his speed, which is an asset. And, uh, James was, uh,
13:31
Speaker 2: apologetic after the game, right. And acknowledged, um, when I
13:35
Speaker 2: asked him about the importance of being accountable, he said,
13:38
Speaker 2: as I think is a fantastic quote that he plans
13:41
Speaker 2: on being in DC for a long time. And so
13:44
Speaker 2: if he's going to be in D.C. for a long time,
13:46
Speaker 2: there is a standard to set. And he wants to
13:49
Speaker 2: make sure that things like this aren't a part of
13:51
Speaker 2: their identity as a team. I think it's something that
13:54
Speaker 2: he thinks about quite a bit, not necessarily like his
13:59
Speaker 2: legacy or like how he's perceived or whatever, but more
14:03
Speaker 2: so how he can help the team win best he can.
14:06
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I think it was a it was
14:09
Speaker 2: a tough moment. It's happened a few times. I don't
14:11
Speaker 2: think that that can be looked past per se, but
14:16
Speaker 2: he owned up to it. And I'm also cognizant of
14:20
Speaker 2: the fact he just came off the aisle. So there's
14:22
Speaker 2: a lot of like caveats and interesting things to say,
14:25
Speaker 2: but I felt at the very least, it was something
14:28
Speaker 2: that needed to be asked and both Blake and James
14:31
Speaker 2: handled it well.
14:34
Speaker 1: Well, the nationals will turn to Jake Irvin tomorrow to
14:38
Speaker 1: try and complete a sweep here in St. Louis before
14:40
Speaker 1: they head off to Detroit. And I, I don't want
14:43
Speaker 1: to draw over dramatize here, but to me, this certainly
14:47
Speaker 1: feels like a pretty big game for Jake. Um, I
14:50
Speaker 1: want to see him go out and shove. It has
14:52
Speaker 1: not been the season he wants to have. And with
14:54
Speaker 1: just a week or so left here in the season,
14:57
Speaker 1: I think now is kind of his last chance to
14:59
Speaker 1: really make an impact on why he should be a
15:01
Speaker 1: part of this team next season. Uh, do you see
15:04
Speaker 1: it the same way?
15:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Jake, like a number of guys on
15:10
Speaker 2: the team, um, has spent the second half trying to
15:13
Speaker 2: prove themselves, trying to work on things that will make them, um,
15:18
Speaker 2: better next year. I, I really, I can't tell you
15:22
Speaker 2: what his role or will be on the team or
15:25
Speaker 2: if he will be on the team or anything like that.
15:27
Speaker 2: I just, I don't know. That's not something I have sourced. Um,
15:32
Speaker 2: what I will say is there are a number of
15:34
Speaker 2: things when I look at Jake and I see, you know, yes,
15:37
Speaker 2: it's been the area over five or the last two years. And, um,
15:41
Speaker 2: Anytime you see that, there's more than one thing to
15:44
Speaker 2: work on. At the same time, he's shown in his past,
15:48
Speaker 2: he has the athleticism and the build to figure it out.
15:53
Speaker 2: He has the mind to figure it out, the routine
15:54
Speaker 2: to figure it out. But it just hasn't been the
15:58
Speaker 2: results that he's wanted for quite some time, right? Even
16:01
Speaker 2: with better strike-up-to-walk ratio this season, for instance. I've always
16:06
Speaker 2: been captivated by the idea of potentially moving him to
16:08
Speaker 2: the bullpen. Um, he pitched well in relief last time out.
16:13
Speaker 2: That's one outing. Um, beyond that, when his fastball is
16:17
Speaker 2: sitting 95 and above, he becomes really hard to hit.
16:21
Speaker 2: And I think that's easier to do in a shorter
16:24
Speaker 2: sample role. Um, but he's also, you know, been a
16:29
Speaker 2: starter his whole career and you never know exactly how
16:31
Speaker 2: a transition moves, but, um, in my eyes, it's, it's
16:36
Speaker 2: worth a shot to see how he might fit in
16:39
Speaker 2: that role but that's that's coming to you from a
16:41
Speaker 2: position where I'm not a pitching coach or a bullpen
16:45
Speaker 2: coach and so I'd want to maybe talk that through
16:49
Speaker 2: with more people first before I say oh yeah that's
16:52
Speaker 2: something the Nationals should definitely do and more like it's
16:55
Speaker 2: a it's a pretty obvious interesting thread to pull on
16:58
Speaker 2: so yeah that's maybe a non-answer but that's that's how
17:01
Speaker 2: I see it.
17:02
Speaker 1: Yeah well we'll be a recap and how his start
17:05
Speaker 1: goes in the next one or the next episode we
17:08
Speaker 1: have There were so many major storylines as we start
17:11
Speaker 1: to wrap up here. I like need to give flowers
17:13
Speaker 1: to all the other guys that have been going off
17:15
Speaker 1: the last couple of days. Dylan Cruz is in a
17:17
Speaker 1: nice little group, had a homer on Friday night in
17:19
Speaker 1: a ridiculous catch, robbing Jordan Walker and Saturday night's game.
17:23
Speaker 1: Andrew Alvarez has been on a tear and he was
17:25
Speaker 1: great in tonight's game. And Dale and Lyle just keeps
17:28
Speaker 1: on doing his thing here at the end of the
17:29
Speaker 1: season with a home run to get it started. Uh,
17:33
Speaker 1: I don't know where this topic is leading here, but
17:35
Speaker 1: it just seems like something is kind of flipped here
17:38
Speaker 1: in the last few days, and they're gelling a little
17:41
Speaker 1: bit more and playing like they were early on in
17:44
Speaker 1: the summer.
17:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think to an extent we've talked about
17:49
Speaker 2: this angle before, so I don't want to bore our readers,
17:51
Speaker 2: but I really can't state how much this depth that
17:55
Speaker 2: they have is important, right? It's not just... James putting
18:00
Speaker 2: up like a 10 war season and then everyone else
18:02
Speaker 2: doing whatever, like CJ, you know, being a all world
18:07
Speaker 2: player and like everyone else just kind of be in there. Right. There's,
18:11
Speaker 2: there's a lot of guys who have gone from negative
18:14
Speaker 2: war to half, half a war or half a win,
18:17
Speaker 2: I should say, or, you know, one more guys becoming
18:20
Speaker 2: two or three or guys it's across the board. So
18:23
Speaker 2: many players looking like, they either are definitely part of
18:28
Speaker 2: the foundation or worth giving more of a, a leash
18:32
Speaker 2: or a runway to. And that's incredibly impactful heading into
18:37
Speaker 2: an off season where the nationals need to spend to
18:40
Speaker 2: a certain extent. And would I, you know, predict them
18:45
Speaker 2: to win 85 games next year? No, I would not.
18:49
Speaker 2: Would I look at them and say, yeah, if they
18:52
Speaker 2: add some marginal pieces, like, Sorry, more than marginal pieces.
18:56
Speaker 2: They'd have a marginal shot at making the postseason next year. Yeah,
19:00
Speaker 2: I would. And that's not something I would have said
19:01
Speaker 2: heading into the year. And that's because the depth. So, yes,
19:05
Speaker 2: it's it's given us a lot to think about, which
19:08
Speaker 2: is fun.
19:10
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's going to wrap up today's episode.
19:13
Speaker 1: Keep on reading The Athletic. Keep on watching Bat Boys
19:16
Speaker 1: Baseball and listening to the District Territory, Foul Territory Network
19:20
Speaker 1: in general. Stay tuned for some really cool stuff coming
19:22
Speaker 1: from MLBX on the Bat Boys page. That'll be sick.
19:25
Speaker 1: Until then, take care of yourselves, everyone. We will see
19:28
Speaker 1: you later.