Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / GABBY PETITO WAS KILLED... But How?

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GABBY PETITO WAS KILLED... But How? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Word just in from the Titime County Corner. Gabby Petito
0:14
Speaker 1: was killed a homicide. There's no two ways about it.
0:20
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Just before five o'clock Tuesday evening,
0:24
Speaker 1: the FBI confirmed the remains found Sunday in Wyoming are
0:28
Speaker 1: indeed that of Gabby Petito. The manner of death was
0:31
Speaker 1: listed as homicide. The FBI said in a statement, the
0:34
Speaker 1: FBI and our partners remained dedicated to ensuring anyone responsible
0:38
Speaker 1: for or complicit end Miss Petito's death is held accountable
0:42
Speaker 1: for their actions. You were just hearing our friends at
0:45
Speaker 1: ABC seven. Cause of death and manner of death are
0:51
Speaker 1: two very different things, But what we know right now
0:56
Speaker 1: is Gabby Petito was killed. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
1:15
Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to make sense of
1:17
Speaker 1: it all. Deal Carson, high profile lawyer joining us out
1:21
Speaker 1: of Jacksonville. Also former FBI agent Karen start renowned New
1:25
Speaker 1: York psychologists joining us from Manhattan at Karen Stark dot com.
1:30
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute
1:35
Speaker 1: at Cold Case Tips. Doctor Pria Bannergy joining US board
1:40
Speaker 1: certified anatomic and forensic pathologist at Anchor Forensic Pathology dot
1:46
Speaker 1: com and joining us. They're on the scene. Camped outside
1:51
Speaker 1: Titian County Coroner's office is Fox Senior News correspondent Laura Ingle. Laura,
1:58
Speaker 1: what's happening? Well, right now, we are awaiting word that
2:03
Speaker 1: the county corner here is going to release the remains
2:07
Speaker 1: of Gabby Potito back to the family. But as of
2:10
Speaker 1: this morning, we have been told that they do still
2:14
Speaker 1: have her remains. There is still more testing of that
2:17
Speaker 1: is going to be done. The ID as we know,
2:20
Speaker 1: has been announced. Homicide has been announced, but they are
2:23
Speaker 1: still doing the toxicology and also some other testing on
2:28
Speaker 1: the remains. So until that is completed, that is when
2:32
Speaker 1: they will be releasing the remains back to the family.
2:35
Speaker 1: We know that the stepfather is still here in Jackson
2:38
Speaker 1: and he will be here until it is time as
2:41
Speaker 1: the family has said, to bring Gabby home to Doctor
2:44
Speaker 1: Banerjee joining US board certified Anatomica forensic pathologist an Ama
2:50
Speaker 1: and the medical examiners. Doctor Banerjee, what do they mean
2:55
Speaker 1: They're saying it's homicide, but they're not telling me what's
3:00
Speaker 1: the difference between cause of death and manner of death.
3:03
Speaker 1: That's a great question. That's very specific to our field.
3:07
Speaker 1: But the way I explain it, if cause of death
3:10
Speaker 1: is why the person died, and manner is a classification
3:14
Speaker 1: as to how that manner or how that clause happened.
3:17
Speaker 1: Excuse me, and so here what they're telling us by
3:21
Speaker 1: labeling it or classifying it as a homicide in the
3:23
Speaker 1: manner it is that she did not die of natural
3:26
Speaker 1: causes or suicide has been alleged. This is definitely a
3:30
Speaker 1: homicide death at the hands of another. Cheryl McCollum joining me,
3:34
Speaker 1: Director and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensics expert.
3:39
Speaker 1: There's a big difference and cause of death and manner
3:42
Speaker 1: of death. What do you think I think they're going
3:45
Speaker 1: to hold that close to their risk because when they
3:48
Speaker 1: get the suspective killer in a interrogation room, they're gonna
3:52
Speaker 1: watch what he says and his manners. So if he's
3:56
Speaker 1: all of a sudden blurts out, hey, I didn't strangle her,
3:58
Speaker 1: nobody say anything about strong elation. Why would he bring
4:01
Speaker 1: that up? That's a really good point. And Delle Carson
4:04
Speaker 1: joining me, a high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and
4:07
Speaker 1: former fed with the FBI. Dale Carson, what do you
4:12
Speaker 1: think you and I, Cheryl All, everybody on the panel
4:16
Speaker 1: has seen so many homicide cases. What do you think, Well,
4:22
Speaker 1: I think he's not going to say anything when he
4:25
Speaker 1: is ultimately found and arrested. And of course the Emmys
4:29
Speaker 1: office still has a great deal to do. You know,
4:32
Speaker 1: was her skull fractured? It's not an accident, we know
4:36
Speaker 1: that much now, and we know it's a homicide. How
4:39
Speaker 1: is it a homicide? What actually killed her? And then
4:42
Speaker 1: there are many other tests they have to look at
4:44
Speaker 1: to determine whether or not she had chemicals on board
4:47
Speaker 1: that she wasn't supposed to have, or if he's pregnant. Wow,
4:51
Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about that. Guys, take a listen
4:53
Speaker 1: to our cut one twenty six Kristen Thorne, ABC seven.
4:57
Speaker 1: To be clear about the manner of death and cause
5:00
Speaker 1: of death, that can be very confusing. We now know
5:02
Speaker 1: that the manner of death has been ruled a homicide.
5:05
Speaker 1: The cause of death how Gabby Petito was killed has
5:09
Speaker 1: not yet been determined. We reached out to the Laundry
5:13
Speaker 1: family attorney to get a reaction to all of this.
5:15
Speaker 1: To Gabby Petito's remains to being identified, to the manner
5:19
Speaker 1: of death, being listed as a homicide. In his reaction
5:22
Speaker 1: and statement from the family was five words made Gabby
5:26
Speaker 1: rest in peace? Well, they certainly did not go overboard
5:30
Speaker 1: with that. May Gabby rest in peace this while their
5:33
Speaker 1: son is still on the run. I'm gonna go now
5:37
Speaker 1: back to doctor Priya Banerjee. So what are our choices?
5:40
Speaker 1: We know it was a homicide that much they've told us.
5:44
Speaker 1: You heard Dale Carson out of Jacksonville. Former FBI agent state,
5:48
Speaker 1: did she have a skull fracture? What else are we
5:50
Speaker 1: going to be looking at to determine cause of death?
5:54
Speaker 1: Manner of death? Homicide? Cause of death? Was she bludgeoned?
5:59
Speaker 1: How can we determine that? Was she stabbed? How can
6:02
Speaker 1: we determine that? Was she smothered? How can we determine
6:05
Speaker 1: that drowned? How can we determine that? What are we
6:08
Speaker 1: looking for? What are our choices? And what will the
6:12
Speaker 1: evidence be as it relates to each one of those
6:16
Speaker 1: homicide choices? Yeah? I mean that that's the money right there,
6:20
Speaker 1: That's the entire autopsy. You know, you can't go into
6:23
Speaker 1: it with only one option in your mind. You know,
6:26
Speaker 1: everything has to be out there. And my colleagues definitely
6:30
Speaker 1: have a complicated case on their hands because we know
6:34
Speaker 1: that it's been at least a few weeks that she
6:37
Speaker 1: hasn't been heard from, So now her we you know,
6:41
Speaker 1: it's it's safe to assume that there's decomposition changes and
6:45
Speaker 1: other effects of being out there. As you said, bludgeoning,
6:49
Speaker 1: we look for skull fractures, bleeding, stabbing or gunshot wounds.
6:52
Speaker 1: You look for, you know, holes that shouldn't be there
6:55
Speaker 1: and bleeding associated with it, and us like domestic violence
7:01
Speaker 1: type cases, you really want to think about smothering, strangulate,
7:05
Speaker 1: you know, strangulation, anything like that that's very up close
7:08
Speaker 1: and personal, so you know. And the other thing I
7:11
Speaker 1: like to say is it's not just always just one method,
7:14
Speaker 1: you know, don't think that it can't be some blunt force,
7:19
Speaker 1: some strangulation, whatever it may be, you know, to to
7:23
Speaker 1: you know, formally or fully kill someone. It could be
7:27
Speaker 1: with their weekend with one method and then killed with another.
7:31
Speaker 1: So lots going on there. Time stories with Nancy Grace
7:51
Speaker 1: to you, Cheryl McCollum, cold case research analysts and expert.
7:56
Speaker 1: Let's just take it one at a time. Let's talk
7:59
Speaker 1: about dabbing. I believe she was still clothed. Therefore, I
8:04
Speaker 1: would be looking for tears or puncture wounds in the clothing.
8:10
Speaker 1: Then if there are puncture wounds in the clothing, I
8:13
Speaker 1: would try to match that plane. I'm just a JD,
8:15
Speaker 1: certainly not an MD. I would try to then put
8:20
Speaker 1: the clothes on her body and then see where that
8:24
Speaker 1: puncture wound matched up to a puncture wound on her
8:29
Speaker 1: actual body. Then I would try to determine was the
8:34
Speaker 1: weapon serrated. Was it a dagger, was it an ice pick?
8:39
Speaker 1: What was it? And you can determine that from the
8:44
Speaker 1: wound itself. I would also look for nicks or cuts
8:50
Speaker 1: on the bones under the skin. There, I would look
8:55
Speaker 1: for bleeding internally, if a just say, a kidney was
8:59
Speaker 1: suddenly sliced open and bleeding, That's what I think you
9:03
Speaker 1: would look for if there had been a stabbing. What
9:07
Speaker 1: about if there had been blunt force trauma? And as
9:12
Speaker 1: doctor Pria Banners, she said, we have body decomp because
9:15
Speaker 1: she's been left out in the elements, the rain, the wind,
9:19
Speaker 1: the cold at night, the heat during the day. It's
9:22
Speaker 1: gonna slow things down. But let's talk about blunt force, okay,
9:27
Speaker 1: and smothering. Start with blunt force They are definitely going
9:32
Speaker 1: to look at the injuries to her head or face,
9:35
Speaker 1: anything that was opened. They're going to look to see
9:38
Speaker 1: if there's any dirt or soul in there that would
9:41
Speaker 1: be indicative of the fall versus wasn't opened before. They're
9:46
Speaker 1: going to do that. They're also going to look for
9:48
Speaker 1: defensive wounds on her hands and on her arms. They're
9:52
Speaker 1: gonna look for skin under her fingernails. Maybe she fought
9:55
Speaker 1: the person, if she were strangled, you know, before she
9:59
Speaker 1: was beat or vice versa, if she bought in any way,
10:02
Speaker 1: they're going to look for that. They're also going to
10:06
Speaker 1: look again for tears and her clothing. Was her collar,
10:09
Speaker 1: you know, extended, was some buttons ripped off? Was the
10:13
Speaker 1: shirt itself ripped? Anything that would be indicative of a
10:16
Speaker 1: fight or her being pulled or even strangled with her clothing.
10:21
Speaker 1: You know what I'm thinking about, Doctor Pria Banerjee, is
10:23
Speaker 1: has decomp set in to the point that her skin
10:28
Speaker 1: was slipping or decomposing, and you can't see finger marks
10:34
Speaker 1: or bruises around her neck. The decomposition and the discoloration
10:39
Speaker 1: really make it much more challenging. But once you get inside,
10:44
Speaker 1: you're really going to look for bleeding and maybe fractures
10:48
Speaker 1: and the delicate bones of the neck. You mean like
10:50
Speaker 1: the hioid bone, exactly, hioid bone. It's very very delicate.
10:56
Speaker 1: And also if her skin had begun to decompose, you
11:01
Speaker 1: would also look for bruising to the muscles under the skin,
11:06
Speaker 1: which I think would still be in take. I think
11:08
Speaker 1: I hear Dale Carson jumping in jump in deal. Yeah.
11:11
Speaker 1: I just did a calculation and it's twenty four days
11:14
Speaker 1: she was laying out. Just that's a good estimate, and
11:18
Speaker 1: that allows for time for a great deal of competition
11:22
Speaker 1: or decomposition, and we'll make it really difficult for the
11:25
Speaker 1: coroners to determine precisely when she died. But of course
11:29
Speaker 1: we now have an actual witness seeing him in that
11:33
Speaker 1: specific area before when she went missing. I want to
11:39
Speaker 1: go to Karen Start, New York Psychologists joining us out
11:42
Speaker 1: of Manhattan. Karen, given what we know, and I'm going
11:46
Speaker 1: to circle back to Laura Ingle to describe it for you.
11:50
Speaker 1: Of prior domestic incidents, a very disturbing nine one one
11:54
Speaker 1: call emerged after the body cam in moab Utah cops
12:00
Speaker 1: body Kim. You see Gabby and Brian Laundry getting pulled
12:06
Speaker 1: over after they jump to curb and she's crying, she's upset,
12:11
Speaker 1: she's very distraught. He's calm, cool and collected. But just
12:15
Speaker 1: before that there had been a nine one one call
12:18
Speaker 1: where the mail caller says he sees Brian Laundry slapping
12:23
Speaker 1: and hitting a girl, Gabby, as she's running up the
12:27
Speaker 1: sidewalk and she's trying to get into the van. He
12:32
Speaker 1: has gotten into the van, locked her out, and he
12:36
Speaker 1: has a cell phone and apparently it's leaving her and
12:40
Speaker 1: she's trying to desperately to get into the van. Now,
12:44
Speaker 1: given what we know, what would you conclude is the
12:51
Speaker 1: c O d Well. It seems to me, Nancy, that
12:55
Speaker 1: just a set that he locked her out of the
12:58
Speaker 1: van tells you something more is going on between the
13:01
Speaker 1: two of them, and that they reported that he seemed
13:06
Speaker 1: to be slapping her and hitting her. What's most failing
13:09
Speaker 1: to me, even if you look at that the body
13:11
Speaker 1: can and what went on between the two of them
13:14
Speaker 1: when they were talking to the police, it's just what
13:17
Speaker 1: you described. He's very calm, and she's taking total responsibility
13:23
Speaker 1: to the fact they were pulled over, to the fact
13:25
Speaker 1: that they were fighting, it's all her fault because of anxiety,
13:28
Speaker 1: and that to me is very typical of somebody who's
13:31
Speaker 1: in an abusive relationship, the woman who keeps taking responsibility,
13:37
Speaker 1: blaming herself or what's happening, and has lost her sense
13:40
Speaker 1: of self. And so I feel like maybe he did
13:45
Speaker 1: actually lock her out of that van and left her there,
13:49
Speaker 1: or they were fighting and he wound up killing her.
13:54
Speaker 1: But I think that it has to have something to
13:57
Speaker 1: do with him, just because of everything that we're hearing,
14:00
Speaker 1: which reports of the hitting with the police pulling them over,
14:04
Speaker 1: which lease me Cheryl McCollum, a director of coll Case
14:06
Speaker 1: Research Institute, to make a calculated guess that this was
14:14
Speaker 1: blunt force or strangulation because we know he hit her
14:18
Speaker 1: in the face before, so he's already done that. Then
14:23
Speaker 1: you know, is m let us OPERENDI jump in? Well,
14:25
Speaker 1: we also know that there wasn't blood all over the van.
14:29
Speaker 1: We know that there's I were looking to see what
14:32
Speaker 1: was in that van, but also what was missing from
14:34
Speaker 1: the van, such as was a tarp missing, where sheets missing,
14:38
Speaker 1: But again law enforcing already knows that they've already searched
14:41
Speaker 1: that we also know or they know we don't know yet,
14:44
Speaker 1: but they know the state she was left in. So
14:46
Speaker 1: some of these things have already been answered. But I
14:48
Speaker 1: will tell you something that was critical to me. On
14:51
Speaker 1: that tape of them when they were pulled over by
14:54
Speaker 1: law enforcement. The last thing he says to the officer
14:58
Speaker 1: is well, I was just because he says, have no
15:01
Speaker 1: communication with each other. Sty' awave each other for the night.
15:03
Speaker 1: And he says, well, I'm just going to text her
15:05
Speaker 1: that I love her and don't contact me. That is
15:08
Speaker 1: so passive aggressive, That is still so controlling. He's again,
15:12
Speaker 1: even at that juncture in front of four police officers,
15:15
Speaker 1: letting Gabby know I can text you, don't you text me?
15:19
Speaker 1: He's still controlling the situation. Straight back out to Wyoming,
15:22
Speaker 1: standing by at the Teton County Corners offices, Laura Ingles,
15:26
Speaker 1: Senior correspondent for Foxnews joining us. Laura, thank you so
15:31
Speaker 1: much for being with us. What are your insights based
15:34
Speaker 1: on where she was found? Do we know how she
15:36
Speaker 1: was found? What's she closed? What's she buried? Was she
15:39
Speaker 1: dragged to that location? What's she under a canopy of
15:42
Speaker 1: trees or left out in the open, down a ravine
15:45
Speaker 1: in water? What can we surmise so far, Laura. If anything,
15:49
Speaker 1: so if you go back to looking at that tape
15:52
Speaker 1: of that other camper that went down the road and
15:55
Speaker 1: spotted the white van, that was that critical tip for
15:59
Speaker 1: the FBI of where to pinpoint their search. If you
16:03
Speaker 1: go back and you look at that area, and we
16:05
Speaker 1: took some drone videos, so we go up and over
16:08
Speaker 1: that area and you look at that spread creek. There's
16:11
Speaker 1: a beautiful trickling water and pebbles, and there are a
16:16
Speaker 1: lot of wide open spaces, which is super surprising to
16:18
Speaker 1: me because when we find out in this tape where
16:22
Speaker 1: her body was located, and it does appear from what
16:25
Speaker 1: we've been told, and again the FBI has not said this,
16:28
Speaker 1: the local police are not telling us, but from what
16:30
Speaker 1: we have surmised from the evidence at the scene where
16:34
Speaker 1: she was found where that stone cross was put out
16:37
Speaker 1: by those streams, she was apparently left out in the open,
16:42
Speaker 1: and somebody another reporter that was there yesterday said that
16:47
Speaker 1: there were the orange spray marks of a spray can
16:51
Speaker 1: of where the evidence markers were. So there was a log,
16:54
Speaker 1: there were lots of rocks that were kind of strewn
16:57
Speaker 1: about that had a lot of markings on them. We
17:00
Speaker 1: don't know for sure, you know, we were everything was
17:03
Speaker 1: closed off when they found her, and they put a
17:05
Speaker 1: tent in a tarp over overheads so nobody could watch.
17:09
Speaker 1: But it appears as though she was left out in
17:12
Speaker 1: the elements for quite some time. And some further detail
17:15
Speaker 1: from the Teton County Corner that we got this morning
17:19
Speaker 1: again the autopsy being complete, but forensic testing ongoing. It
17:22
Speaker 1: includes microscopic test and the toxicology. And we've been told
17:26
Speaker 1: now that the samples from the remains were taken yesterday
17:31
Speaker 1: for these tests, and the corner says they don't have
17:33
Speaker 1: a time table on these test results, but it could
17:37
Speaker 1: be coming back in days or weeks. We just don't know.
17:41
Speaker 1: But you know, the thing about when we talk about
17:43
Speaker 1: the relationship and what was noted in that bodycam footage
17:49
Speaker 1: and what we've been talking about here, I also want
17:51
Speaker 1: to add, so there was a nine one one call
17:54
Speaker 1: from the person who witnessed the argument that the two had.
17:58
Speaker 1: There was also a witness statement. It was not a
18:01
Speaker 1: nine one one call, it was a statement given. So
18:03
Speaker 1: there was somebody else that came forward to talk to police.
18:06
Speaker 1: And you got to think, you think about all the
18:08
Speaker 1: times that you've been out in a parking lot or
18:10
Speaker 1: you may have heard something and you didn't call nine
18:14
Speaker 1: one one. I mean, God bless these two people that
18:17
Speaker 1: contacted the police and told them what they saw. And
18:20
Speaker 1: when I read this report of this other witness, he
18:24
Speaker 1: says that, you know, I observed a man and woman
18:27
Speaker 1: appeared to have some sort of a fight. They were
18:29
Speaker 1: talking aggressively with each other, and something seemed off. It
18:34
Speaker 1: was that it was just something about the fight that
18:36
Speaker 1: he saw. And this person I don't believe saw any physical,
18:39
Speaker 1: real physical altercation like the person who called nine one one,
18:43
Speaker 1: But for somebody to have that sense of something seemed off.
18:46
Speaker 1: I need to raise my hand and say something is
18:48
Speaker 1: really incredible and so important moving forward, you know, like
18:52
Speaker 1: all of us to realize that information and think about
18:56
Speaker 1: how you can help in the future Prime stories with
19:13
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Another thing we are learning and I'm going
19:17
Speaker 1: to throw this to Cheryl McCollum, and I also want
19:19
Speaker 1: to go back to doctor Preyer Banerjee and Dell Carson
19:23
Speaker 1: regarding the quote microscopic tests that they are still conducting
19:28
Speaker 1: on Gabby's body. But this is something else we're learning
19:32
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. Can you imagine you're out in the middle
19:35
Speaker 1: of it where I told you that I took the twins,
19:38
Speaker 1: David and I took the twins all the way out
19:41
Speaker 1: there in an RV to the Tetons to Yellowstone across
19:46
Speaker 1: the country. It's a trick. You're out there and you
19:50
Speaker 1: get locked out of your van, which is your home,
19:53
Speaker 1: and you don't have your phone. Because we are now
19:57
Speaker 1: getting reports and I'm quoting wording too. A witness identified
20:01
Speaker 1: as Chris miss Petito was such an ass Laundry way
20:06
Speaker 1: he had to be so mean because Laundry fought quote
20:11
Speaker 1: aggressively over her cell phone during the moab Utah argument.
20:20
Speaker 1: He was fighting to get her cell phone. Why did
20:24
Speaker 1: he need the van the key to the van. She's
20:27
Speaker 1: locked out and he's trying to take her cell phone too.
20:31
Speaker 1: What what was on that cell phone? We know she
20:34
Speaker 1: had been texting her mother about their strained relationship as
20:39
Speaker 1: the trip wore on. He wanted her to have no
20:42
Speaker 1: contact with her family. He didn't want her to post anything,
20:46
Speaker 1: send anything, call anybody that again is abuser one oh
20:51
Speaker 1: one behavior Yeah. Started the domestic violence playbook straight out
20:56
Speaker 1: of it Karen Storry joining me Psycho New York. When
21:00
Speaker 1: I first started working at the Battered Women's Center as
21:03
Speaker 1: a volunteer, we had to go to training, training, training,
21:06
Speaker 1: And that's one of the first thing you hear in
21:08
Speaker 1: every phone call. He tore the phone out of the wall,
21:11
Speaker 1: he took my cell phone. He won't let me contact
21:14
Speaker 1: my family. He gets mad, I want to speak to
21:15
Speaker 1: my mother. Blah blah blah. It's all about not contacting
21:19
Speaker 1: family and control. And here he is in the van.
21:22
Speaker 1: He's got her locked out of the van. She's trying
21:25
Speaker 1: to crawl over him through the driver's window, and they're
21:29
Speaker 1: fineing because he won't give her her phone and it's
21:32
Speaker 1: her van. And I have no doubt, Nancy, that that,
21:36
Speaker 1: as I said before, that that had to have been
21:38
Speaker 1: going on between the two. If you just watch what's happening,
21:43
Speaker 1: what would make this policewoman say to her, maybe you
21:47
Speaker 1: want to stay out of this relationship, maybe you want
21:49
Speaker 1: to rethink this. She was picking up on the fact
21:52
Speaker 1: that something was really wrong. He wants to cut up
21:55
Speaker 1: all communication because he doesn't want her saying what's happened
22:00
Speaker 1: the name. He doesn't want the family to have any
22:03
Speaker 1: kind of control over her because it breaks his power,
22:06
Speaker 1: and his power is to be in charge and to
22:10
Speaker 1: make her feel life. There's something wrong with her. Meanwhile,
22:15
Speaker 1: back on the East Coast, we've got Laura Angele Fox
22:19
Speaker 1: seeing your news correspondent joining us outside the Teton County
22:23
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office, a coroner's office. Take listen to our
22:26
Speaker 1: friends at ABC seven. Back on the East Coast, five
22:30
Speaker 1: hundred miles away from the Carlton Reserve, the search for
22:33
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry took police Tuesday into Okaloosa County, Florida. A
22:38
Speaker 1: resident in Baker notified police after capturing an image of
22:41
Speaker 1: a man fitting Laundry's description on his trail camera on
22:44
Speaker 1: September twentieth. The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office says they did
22:48
Speaker 1: an extensive search of the area and found nothing of note.
22:51
Speaker 1: When we asked the department if this could be considered
22:53
Speaker 1: a sighting of Brian Laundry, a spokesperson said, until Brian
22:57
Speaker 1: is located and in custody, the stability hasn't been ruled out.
23:02
Speaker 1: At Brian's parents' home in Northport, Florida, all was quiet
23:05
Speaker 1: Tuesday until the late afternoon, when Brian's father, Christopher Laundry,
23:09
Speaker 1: left the house and returned a short time leader. I've
23:12
Speaker 1: got so many questions. How did Laundry get out of
23:15
Speaker 1: that house undetected by police and the press that have
23:19
Speaker 1: had a ring of cameras, including staking out in the
23:22
Speaker 1: backyard to go on his walk about. Was he ever there?
23:26
Speaker 1: I have no doubt that he did, or I think
23:29
Speaker 1: he did drive the van back okay from where it was,
23:36
Speaker 1: or do one of the parents do it. Anyway, the
23:38
Speaker 1: van edges into town about ten thirty am, coming off
23:42
Speaker 1: I seventy five, and the tag is caught on a
23:45
Speaker 1: tag grabber, so I know that. But once he's at
23:48
Speaker 1: the home, we think September first, nobody's seen him. Did
23:53
Speaker 1: he leave then, because he's got quite the lead on
23:56
Speaker 1: the corps latest thing Dale Carson joining me out of Florida.
24:01
Speaker 1: We're talking about the Florida Panhandle where Alabama and Florida
24:07
Speaker 1: curve around. My dad grew up in Hey Cody, which
24:11
Speaker 1: is near Enterprise, which is near op which is near Mobile,
24:16
Speaker 1: and we would spend every summer on the Florida Panhandle. Now,
24:22
Speaker 1: did you know del Carson? I don't know if you've
24:24
Speaker 1: seen the shot yet or not. But somebody caught an
24:28
Speaker 1: image on their deer cam, which is out in the
24:31
Speaker 1: middle of a forest land early morning around six am.
24:36
Speaker 1: Looks just like Brian Laundry. And if you go to
24:40
Speaker 1: crime online dot com right now, you'll see the comparison. There.
24:46
Speaker 1: You see the backpack I'll call him the deer hunter
24:51
Speaker 1: was wearing. The guy walking in front of the deer
24:53
Speaker 1: cam looks just like Laundry. You see his backpack beside it.
24:59
Speaker 1: You see a pick sure of his Bryan Laundry's backpack
25:04
Speaker 1: sitting in gabbies van. They look the same. This is
25:10
Speaker 1: the first time I think we may have a Laundry signing.
25:16
Speaker 1: I've got to look at it more closely and try
25:18
Speaker 1: to get that image enhanced. But tell me about Okaloosa
25:22
Speaker 1: County Dale Carson. It is far west in Florida, and
25:28
Speaker 1: it's all swamp and hardwoods out that way, which obviously
25:34
Speaker 1: he's familiar with. The oddity is that it's about four
25:36
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety miles from Northport. That's a long trek.
25:41
Speaker 1: You certainly had to have assistance getting there and a
25:44
Speaker 1: good head start. Absolutely he did have, and he could
25:48
Speaker 1: well be in that area. But the odd thing is
25:51
Speaker 1: he's got to have money for food and other purposes.
25:55
Speaker 1: And where is that money coming from? Who's paying for that?
25:58
Speaker 1: He doesn't have a job now, and they certainly didn't
26:01
Speaker 1: say that money working as a tech in a pharmacy
26:05
Speaker 1: or in publics. So where is this money coming from?
26:08
Speaker 1: His parents? Let me ask you a question, Jackie. Can
26:11
Speaker 1: you look up how far is it from a Mobile,
26:14
Speaker 1: Alabama to Ocaloosa County, Florida. Okay, let's just I guess
26:21
Speaker 1: what would be a good city spot in Ocaloosa County?
26:24
Speaker 1: Would you say Fort Walton or Destiny Walton. Yeah, let's
26:29
Speaker 1: go with from Mobile to Fort Walton because there was
26:33
Speaker 1: another siding. Let me let me go back to Laura
26:35
Speaker 1: Ingle Fox Music Senior correspondent, joining us from Teton County
26:39
Speaker 1: Emmy's Office Coroner's office. There's a difference between a corner
26:42
Speaker 1: and an Emmy, Laura. For all I know, he's been
26:47
Speaker 1: one hundred and two miles, Laura. I think it was
26:51
Speaker 1: the day before there was an alleged sighting of Brian
26:54
Speaker 1: Laundry in and around Mobile, Alabama. And now we have
27:02
Speaker 1: an alleged signing on the deer cam in the county
27:06
Speaker 1: that's only one hundred miles. You know, last night we
27:08
Speaker 1: all all of us here, all the reporters and producers,
27:11
Speaker 1: our phones were going off. There was reports of this
27:13
Speaker 1: police scanner possible Brian laundry siting, and everybody was looking
27:19
Speaker 1: into it. We all called the police, reached out to family,
27:23
Speaker 1: and everybody heard the same thing. And it was that
27:25
Speaker 1: glimmer of hope. But then it was discounted, just like
27:29
Speaker 1: the other one. And you know, somebody said that they
27:32
Speaker 1: need to you know, when we're looking at men who
27:35
Speaker 1: have lost their hair and who are of his height,
27:38
Speaker 1: who are walking around with a backpack. There's a lot
27:40
Speaker 1: of people that fit that description in the United States
27:43
Speaker 1: right now, so you know, it's important to call those
27:46
Speaker 1: tips in. But it did give everybody a flutter of
27:49
Speaker 1: hope yesterday, and it is important to note. I mean,
27:51
Speaker 1: we've been talking about it that the FBI continues to
27:54
Speaker 1: ask people about calling in tips if you were in
27:57
Speaker 1: this area, and the one thing I want to mention,
27:58
Speaker 1: I didn't know that you had RVV here. I have
28:01
Speaker 1: never been here. It's the most spectacular, beautiful place you've
28:04
Speaker 1: ever seen, and it is packed. All of the hotels,
28:08
Speaker 1: no vacancy. It is absolutely swarming with campers and hikers
28:12
Speaker 1: and people taking pictures, and that is what they're looking for.
28:15
Speaker 1: They're looking for people obviously everywhere, but it's specifically here
28:20
Speaker 1: because they want to see if they can follow any
28:23
Speaker 1: kind of lead from any kind of siting, and certainly
28:26
Speaker 1: before the alleged crime occurred and after so that they
28:30
Speaker 1: can find out maybe which way he went. You know,
28:32
Speaker 1: when you look at that van video from that YouTuber
28:36
Speaker 1: and you can going down the road and you see
28:38
Speaker 1: it somebody backed up that. I don't know if you've
28:41
Speaker 1: seen this video, but somebody backed it up a few
28:43
Speaker 1: seconds before and you can see the van doors closing.
28:47
Speaker 1: They were open, you can see them closing, and then
28:50
Speaker 1: and then the woman drives by and see spots the van,
28:53
Speaker 1: so we you know, it needs to be authenticated. But
28:57
Speaker 1: if that's the case, then they somebody was in the
28:59
Speaker 1: van and we've seen her flip flops outside of the van.
29:03
Speaker 1: You know that that timeline is just all so important.
29:06
Speaker 1: But for people just need to continue to call in
29:09
Speaker 1: those tips crime stories with Nancy Grace, Laura Angle, I
29:30
Speaker 1: find that very critical what you just said. I had
29:33
Speaker 1: read a report where the witness saw the back of
29:38
Speaker 1: the van door close abruptly, is how it was described.
29:43
Speaker 1: Could you repeat that really slowly for me, because I'm
29:47
Speaker 1: furiously taking notes on everything you say, everybody, Laura Angle
29:51
Speaker 1: joining me there in Wyoming, about what, who where, why? When?
29:57
Speaker 1: Who saw it? Where when? And it's significant to me
30:01
Speaker 1: because they went when they went by the vein, it
30:04
Speaker 1: looked as if it were abandoned. So if the doors
30:09
Speaker 1: right shut, then why why are they basically hiding in
30:13
Speaker 1: there with all the lights off and no movement? You
30:16
Speaker 1: tell it, Laura Angle, really slowly for me. Well, what
30:20
Speaker 1: happens is is this woman and we've had her on
30:22
Speaker 1: our air and a lot of people have interviewed her.
30:24
Speaker 1: You may have too, from the Red, White and Bassoon.
30:27
Speaker 1: She's the YouTube insider who provided this critical tip. And
30:33
Speaker 1: when you go to the before and after zoomed in
30:36
Speaker 1: stills that are seconds apart, it happens really really fast,
30:40
Speaker 1: so irv too, and so like you put your you
30:43
Speaker 1: put your GoPro on the dash and you you know,
30:47
Speaker 1: you take these beautiful pictures of what your trails look
30:50
Speaker 1: like in the road to go to your campsite. And
30:52
Speaker 1: that's what this woman did. And what we have seen
30:54
Speaker 1: repeatedly in the news coverage is that slowed down there's
30:58
Speaker 1: the white van if particular campground in the dispersed area, which,
31:02
Speaker 1: as we now have all learned, that means that, you know,
31:05
Speaker 1: you just pull off. It's not a campsite that you
31:07
Speaker 1: go and you sign up for. But when they backed
31:10
Speaker 1: up that tape, somebody slowed it down and took some stills.
31:14
Speaker 1: The back of the van doors were open, and as
31:18
Speaker 1: the vehicles approaching with this YouTube blogger coming down the road,
31:23
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the back doors quickly shut close.
31:28
Speaker 1: Now had anything happened at that point, we don't know,
31:32
Speaker 1: but it is an indication that that van wasn't abandoned.
31:35
Speaker 1: It was that there was somebody in it. We just
31:38
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, did a crime occur before during after,
31:43
Speaker 1: We just don't know. But I can tell you that
31:45
Speaker 1: our cameraman, one of them, went over to the site
31:48
Speaker 1: yesterday and we were talking about where the body was
31:51
Speaker 1: in proximity to where that van was spotted. So it
31:55
Speaker 1: goes Van Brush Creek and then on the other side
31:59
Speaker 1: of the creek is where her body was found reportedly
32:03
Speaker 1: by a log So the idea that she had had
32:07
Speaker 1: been just put on the other side of a log
32:10
Speaker 1: is just heartbreaking. And again the activity and the weather
32:15
Speaker 1: and the heat and the cold, and now they've they've
32:19
Speaker 1: opened up that campsite, and that's the other part that
32:21
Speaker 1: still I find. I guess you have to open it
32:23
Speaker 1: up at some point, but people are just walking around,
32:27
Speaker 1: they know that that's where she was found, and they
32:29
Speaker 1: had to open it back up. But getting back to
32:31
Speaker 1: the doors, I mean, you see those doors open, and
32:33
Speaker 1: they're open, then they're shut quickly. You should look at
32:36
Speaker 1: the tape because it's it's pretty dramatic. Hold on, hold on,
32:39
Speaker 1: Delle Carson. So I got to clarify something Laura Engle
32:42
Speaker 1: just told me. So I understand it. So you've got
32:46
Speaker 1: Gabby's van, and then to the left of the van
32:50
Speaker 1: is the brush, then the creek. Then on the other
32:53
Speaker 1: side of the creek you have Gabby's body found by
32:57
Speaker 1: a log. Or is it to the right of the man.
33:00
Speaker 1: It's my understanding that it was to the left. That's
33:03
Speaker 1: the photo. I say, that's what I saw from the
33:05
Speaker 1: video too, but I wanted to make sure because the
33:08
Speaker 1: YouTuber Red White mteen driving along and the vans on
33:12
Speaker 1: the left and there's a cree to the left. But
33:15
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure I didn't have it reverse somehow,
33:18
Speaker 1: you know, when it goes on TV days get twisted around. Okay,
33:23
Speaker 1: got it. Dell Carson, high profile lawyer, Jacksonville, former FBI
33:27
Speaker 1: agent jump in. There's another point here. The van life
33:31
Speaker 1: people keep all their doors open, and they spend a
33:35
Speaker 1: lot of time with the doors open so they can
33:37
Speaker 1: see the view, and they park in areas where they
33:40
Speaker 1: can get that view, and that none of that happened here,
33:44
Speaker 1: and it's unusual to have people living in a van
33:47
Speaker 1: keep it all closed up, particularly when the weather is
33:50
Speaker 1: not inclement. So that about is Cheryl McCollum jump in.
33:54
Speaker 1: I think it's important to the timing, the date that
33:58
Speaker 1: this happened and relationship to where her body was found.
34:03
Speaker 1: It's pretty much a to B what was the date
34:05
Speaker 1: Laura Angle. Did we have a range of dates that
34:09
Speaker 1: Red White and Bethune made the video or do we
34:12
Speaker 1: have it narrowed down to one particular day, not only
34:15
Speaker 1: particular day, particular time August twenty seventh, about six pm.
34:21
Speaker 1: So that is and that is what helps authorities get
34:25
Speaker 1: over to that area and say, okay, here's the campsite,
34:27
Speaker 1: here's our bulls eye. You know, the van was gone
34:29
Speaker 1: when they got there, but this is where they started.
34:31
Speaker 1: And then they spread out and you know, went out
34:33
Speaker 1: into a circle and just did a grid search around there.
34:37
Speaker 1: But yeah, August twenty seven, six pm. And that is
34:39
Speaker 1: why the FBI continues to say, if you were in
34:42
Speaker 1: this area between August twenty seventh August thirtieth, anywhere in
34:46
Speaker 1: this timeframe, we want to see your photos. Did you
34:49
Speaker 1: take a photo by that pretty creek and what's in
34:52
Speaker 1: the background. That's what they're looking for, because you know
34:55
Speaker 1: Floura angle. If one person is taking a photo out camping,
35:00
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, everybody's going to that same spot.
35:02
Speaker 1: If I take a photo, I had some great photos
35:05
Speaker 1: of us in the Tetons, I don't know where. All
35:08
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I didn't even see these people on
35:10
Speaker 1: a hiking trail. All of sudden they're taking the same
35:12
Speaker 1: the same shot, and I do the same thing. I
35:14
Speaker 1: see people taking your photo, I'm like, oh, that must
35:16
Speaker 1: be a good VISTI I'm running over there, same thing,
35:19
Speaker 1: and they're right, anybody there if you took a shot
35:23
Speaker 1: along this creek, who knows what could be in the background.
35:28
Speaker 1: I broke in on you, shar I'm McCall and what
35:29
Speaker 1: were you saying. I'm just saying again, where the van was,
35:34
Speaker 1: where her body was. That's a to b as the
35:36
Speaker 1: crow files again, they're going to be able to see
35:40
Speaker 1: drag marks, They're going to be able to see items
35:43
Speaker 1: on her body from foliage and that dirt or soul.
35:47
Speaker 1: When was the fake text? Anybody remember the fake text
35:51
Speaker 1: about no I believe thank you, Laura, twenty eight or
35:58
Speaker 1: thirtieth that we get the fake to so and that's
36:02
Speaker 1: the one where it says no sales service Yosemite. Yes, right, okay,
36:07
Speaker 1: no Carson you want in Yeah, Well that's exactly right.
36:10
Speaker 1: That that particular transmission came from full much for the West,
36:16
Speaker 1: which doesn't make sense because of course he didn't travel
36:19
Speaker 1: that way, or that van did not travel back that way,
36:23
Speaker 1: because that would require them to take the phone almost
36:25
Speaker 1: to San Francisco. I'm sorry, La, is there any possibility
36:30
Speaker 1: someone else drove the van back and not him? Laura Angele, Well, sure,
36:37
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's what they're looking for. And when
36:39
Speaker 1: we're following along the path and you look at the
36:43
Speaker 1: areas that somebody would have driven the van. I mean
36:46
Speaker 1: those toll cameras, the gas stations, and there's and there's
36:49
Speaker 1: all this chatter with the citizen detectives out there on
36:52
Speaker 1: on all of these social media platforms, and the pictures
36:55
Speaker 1: of his tattoos on his fingers and on his hands,
37:00
Speaker 1: everybody's look for people pumping gas that might have this tattoo.
37:04
Speaker 1: They'd go back in your in your memory, even your
37:07
Speaker 1: pictures there. But hopefully their surveillance pictures of the van
37:11
Speaker 1: had had to get gas at some point. And that's
37:14
Speaker 1: you know what doctor Michael Boden told us last night
37:17
Speaker 1: was in terms of the DNA testing, they got to
37:20
Speaker 1: do it at all signs point to Brian, But you know,
37:24
Speaker 1: is there a third party DNA? Probably not, but they
37:26
Speaker 1: have to look at it. Doctor Trea, what do they mean?
37:30
Speaker 1: What did Lord Engleman when she said medical examiners now
37:34
Speaker 1: looking for microscopic evidence? What do they mean by that?
37:38
Speaker 1: Fibers DNA? They would look for any kind of trace
37:41
Speaker 1: evidence on the body. You know, that's just integral to
37:44
Speaker 1: the autopsy. And then when I think microscopic, maybe they
37:49
Speaker 1: are trying to look better at the tissues under the
37:51
Speaker 1: microscope itself. You know, Fancy, I gotta jump in here.
37:54
Speaker 1: Good job. The dirt and soul is going to be critical.
37:58
Speaker 1: So when you think of a top layer, that top
38:01
Speaker 1: layer of full is different than when you get down
38:05
Speaker 1: to the subsole. So when that you know part of
38:09
Speaker 1: the earth has been cut through that ravine, the dirt
38:13
Speaker 1: on top where she would have started and where she
38:15
Speaker 1: ended up is different. And they're mighty those samples of
38:20
Speaker 1: the different parts of her body to show she didn't
38:23
Speaker 1: walk or jump or slip. They've got to determine too,
38:27
Speaker 1: whether or not she was sexfully assaulted before she was killed.
38:31
Speaker 1: That's another important aspect that we've overlooked altogether. Karen Stark
38:35
Speaker 1: final thought, well, I think that if you take a look, Nancy,
38:39
Speaker 1: it's just incredible how people are so engaged in this
38:44
Speaker 1: case and relate to it and think this could happen
38:47
Speaker 1: to me, this could happen to my child. That they
38:50
Speaker 1: were chronicling everything that was happening, that Gabby was doing that,
38:55
Speaker 1: and in the way, I feel like it's a message
38:57
Speaker 1: from Gadby to keep searching to her story for someone
39:02
Speaker 1: to figure this out. And it's just incredibly amazing. Wonderful
39:07
Speaker 1: that everyone's trying. So many people are trying to figure
39:11
Speaker 1: out what happened to her. This is why we know
39:13
Speaker 1: now Brian Laundry on the run, multiple sidings. Are they real?
39:20
Speaker 1: As Gabby's body remains the Tea Time County Morgue, We
39:26
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. It's not over yet. If you
39:30
Speaker 1: think you have information, dial one eight hundred, call FBI
39:35
Speaker 1: one eight hundred, two two five five three two four.
39:39
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,