Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Taylor Frankie Paul and why Mom Influencers use their Children for Content

Transcript

Taylor Frankie Paul and why Mom Influencers use their Children for Content · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Reward the easy way.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Optionscard.ie.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: When you're on the road, when you're on the go,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Juicy Scoop is the show to know.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: She talks Hollywood tales for real life.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Segment Serial Data and Serial Sister.
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  Speaker 1: You'll be addicted and addicted.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
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  Speaker 4: Listen in, listen up.
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  Speaker 1: Woo, woo. Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Juicy Scoop. I've got such a juicy show for you
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: with an expert who's going to weigh in. I'm going
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: to explain that in a minute. But first, let me
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: remind you again, Salt Lake City people. I mean, we
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: are going to be talking about Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about Real Housewives of Salt
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  Speaker 1: Lake City. We're going to talk about Real Housewives of
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Beverly Hills. We're going to talk about all the juicy,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: funny stuff that's happened. It's going to be a fun escape.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And it's going to be at Wiseguys this weekend. Please
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  Speaker 1: go to heathermcdoll.net to get tickets. I'll see you in
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. Okay. Latest on Taylor Frankie Paul. As
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: of this recording, The Bachelorette is still ready to air
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  Speaker 1: on Sunday night. They don't give a shit, okay, of
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: what is going on. Super juicy info coming out of TMZ.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: People that were on set and were part of the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: taping of Reunion 3, the third reunion, third season. They
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: said there was a whole moment at that reunion between
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Taylor and her baby daddy, on-and-off boyfriend Dakota, where he
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  Speaker 1: accused her of physical abuse. She accused him back. They
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: chose not to share that footage with us. They claim
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the people, according to TMZ that worked on the show,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: said it didn't have to do with the season because
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the fight that they're talking about was not aired. Now,
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  Speaker 1: we know we've all watched plenty of reunions on Real
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Housewives of Beverly Hills, and that doesn't matter. Someone could
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  Speaker 1: be like, at our trip, you said, and at dinner,
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  Speaker 1: and it was not filmed. And that comes out, and
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  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that's why those two women really had
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  Speaker 1: an issue. Or like when Kyle on Real Housewives of
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Beverly Hills said to Garcelle, you held up your paddle
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: to pay a donation to my charity, and you never paid.
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  Speaker 1: Well- That's something we didn't see happen on the show.
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  Speaker 1: So obviously, in my opinion, I think that the production
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: knew that this was a volatile, awful situation that probably
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  Speaker 1: should have been handled prior to this latest incident, causing
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  Speaker 1: the girls who are now executive producers, the last report
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  Speaker 1: I read, it's them who said, we don't want to
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  Speaker 1: film with Taylor, Frankie, Paul anymore. That's the latest rumor
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  Speaker 1: I'm hearing. That's what caused them to stop filming. Not
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: necessarily their moral high ground. And then they said, but
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: we want them both to have psych evaluations. Well, who's
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: telling the truth? We're going to get more into that
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: with an expert in my interview. So now I'm going
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: to switch to something a little lighter. Okay. Demi had
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: a crazy last year of her life because she went
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to the villa, also a show on Hulu, and Marciano
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  Speaker 1: was there. And they, according to him and coming on
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  Speaker 1: my show, spent six hours talking about intimate things in
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: their life. They shared a kiss. And when she left,
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  Speaker 1: they both said, I love you. And they talked after that.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: And then he got involved with the other cast member. Jesse.
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  Speaker 1: That's why the show is juicy. Okay. But it can
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: be funny too. And Demi is still with her husband.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden they just show them heading
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: to a recording studio. And you're like, Heather, of course
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: they're starting a podcast. No, it's scarier than that. They
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: did a duet. They because she refused to do interviews,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: there's no point where they normally would cut to an
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  Speaker 1: interview and they would say, you know, tell me why
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  Speaker 1: you thought it would be good for you and Jordan
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  Speaker 1: to become the next Sonny and Cher. We don't know why.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: We don't know if they're going to do cover bands.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: We don't know if they're going to do a Tom
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  Speaker 1: Sandoval thing. We don't know if they're going to be
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  Speaker 1: Sonny and Cher or if they're going to be Donny
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  Speaker 1: and Marie. We don't know. But they decided to work
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: on a song that we could see. Or this was
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: their audition for The Masked Singer where they're singing True Colors.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: You know your true colors are shining through. Cyndi Lauper,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: it was her original song. And he's singing and she's like,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you're a little flat. And he's like, that's why I
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  Speaker 1: love you. And don't be afraid. Poetic show, your true colors,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: you're beautiful like a rainbow. It was by far a
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: highlight of a comedic moment of the show when a
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: lot of it that we're discussing is dark. But they're
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: both attractive. Both can't sing. Let's go. Let's do it.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Let's go see them like we did Tom Sandoval, Luann.
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  Speaker 1: Every reality star can become a singer because there's enough
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: of you that will go buy tickets and get drunk
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  Speaker 1: enough and think that they're good. And I love it. Okay?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: This is a juicy story that I want to tell
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  Speaker 1: you about. Rebel Wilson, the actress Rebel Wilson. You may
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: recall the story. She was in a legal battle with
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  Speaker 1: the producer of a movie called named Amanda Ghost. And
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: it was a very confusing, weird story to follow in
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  Speaker 1: which there was another female cast member in which Rebel
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  Speaker 1: Wilson said, I believe that Amanda Ghost was inappropriate with
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  Speaker 1: this other female cast member. Then that female cast member
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  Speaker 1: was like, no, that's not true. And it was just like,
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  Speaker 1: what is this all about? Well, Hollywood Reporter said, did
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  Speaker 1: it has revealed that there has been leaked audio that
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  Speaker 1: reveals that rebel Wilson's PR team plotted to smear movie
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  Speaker 1: producer as a sex trafficker. I have listened to the
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  Speaker 1: audio and it is pretty shocking. So the PR agency
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: is called the agency groups. That's what I think of
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: the agency group. And the recording is that Nathan's the
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  Speaker 1: agency group, a top PR shop in the, um, entertainment industry,
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  Speaker 1: whose clients have included Drake and Johnny Depp, okay, has
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: frequently worked with Friedman, Brian Friedman. He represents Justin Baldoni,
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  Speaker 1: which is interesting. Just that all these people work together. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Deployed websites. This is what they, that's what it's saying.
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  Speaker 1: Featuring character assassinating claims about Ghost. So what It says,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: if you hear this guy saying, we can't just have
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  Speaker 1: it be that Amanda Ghost is, you know, whatever, difficult.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: We have to make it that her involvement with this
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  Speaker 1: billionaire is because she is bringing women to him. So
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: like the article said, creating a narrative that this woman,
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  Speaker 1: Amanda Ghost, who is a producer, I really don't know
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: what the background is, why she and Rebel Wilson really
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: had a rift in the beginning. That's a whole other
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: thing that I have not overly studied. But this story
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: is available by The Hollywood Reporter, that she's a sex trafficker.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: And he's saying, if we could get this out, if
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: we could get some of the anonymous information websites that
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: cover this to then say it. I'm guessing he means like,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: you know, a type that is like Crazy Days and
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Crazy Nights, Demois, I'm not saying that they did it,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: but put this out there. Now, Crazy Days and Crazy
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Nights has been an anonymous website in which they basically
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: say this who's newly joined the L.A. franchise of Real Housewives.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: They won't say it, but anyone with two brain cells
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: puts it together. That's where Diana Jenkins, who was on
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: one season, was why people thought that she was a
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  Speaker 1: trafficker of some sort. She, I believe, sued and won.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: So this is how this stuff gets started. Also, on
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: The Ladies of London, that's a story line. where they're
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: accusing this woman who has since left the show after
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the first two episodes of also being a madam, which
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I said, it used to be fun to be called madam.
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  Speaker 1: Now everybody's just a sex trafficker and it's sad and wrong.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: So that's not even why she left the show, but
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  Speaker 1: she was accused of it. So it's crazy to hear
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  Speaker 1: this guy say, we need to create this story and
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: put it out there. That probably also meets any kind
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of anonymous type of sites where it's not a legit,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: you know, people article or whatever. The conversation was originally
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: recorded in order to relay instructions from Wallace to the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: former TAG vice president, Katie Case, who was not on
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the call. She was told to review a document detailing
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: accusations the site ultimately alleged against the producer. In the
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: recording obtained by The Hollywood Reporter, the digital fixer Jed
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Wallace instructed a top entertainment publicist, Melissa Nathan, to assert
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  Speaker 1: without evidence that the producer, Amanda Ghost, is a madam
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  Speaker 1: whose work involves procuring young women for wealthy and powerful men.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: some of the quotes was we just can't do like, Oh,
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  Speaker 1: she's a bitch. She sucks. Wallace says in the recording,
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  Speaker 1: it's like got to be really, really heavy and connected
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  Speaker 1: to something that heavy. I listened to it. I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to guess that the defense would be, I was saying
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  Speaker 1: it has to be something like she's such an awful
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: person that she's a sex trafficker. I don't think that's
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: going to help your case. Um, It's pretty creepy because
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: in the report that I told you about before, there
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: was accusations going around that maybe she was inappropriate, this woman,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: with a female cast member. So then that goes with
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the story that maybe she is a Ghislaine Maxwell type.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: It's very interesting, and it's a lot to follow. But basically,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: these major power players, from Brian Friedman, who represents Justin Baldoni,
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  Speaker 1: his case is... you know, that they both acclaimed that
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: there were publicity smear canes made about each other. These
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: smear campaigns happen. They work. I don't think we ever
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  Speaker 1: thought they were coming from a legit PR firm. We thought, oh,
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  Speaker 1: these are just crazy content creators that are pulling things
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  Speaker 1: out of their ass and making up stuff and they
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be taken seriously. But there's clearly a road that
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to making it get out there. It's something that Blake
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Lively claimed happened to her, that there was all this
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: negative publicity about her, her behavior, whether she's difficult on set,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: whether she's not a nice person, interviews, this and that.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: It's not that hard to do in this day and age,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: you know, to sneak it to a blogger that writes
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: for Real Housewives, that does Real Housewives content about another
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: cast member. That happened with several franchises in the last
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  Speaker 1: couple years. It gets out there. It gets people talking.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: It affects either a reality show, but in some cases,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: it affects people's real life and livelihood. Blatant lies, but
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to think that it's getting from a legit PR firm,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: which back in the day, PR firms were, we're going
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to get you on this talk show. We're going to
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: get you on the cover of this magazine. We're going
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to set you up with a reporter who's going to
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: write a flattering article about your next movie. It's become
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: really crazy and dark. And by using these different entities
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: to get your story out there that didn't exist 30
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: years with content creators and with anonymous sites and with
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  Speaker 1: Reddit pages, that is the real story that I think
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: is very shocking and disturbing. Rebel Wilson said she had
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: no clue this was happening. She was not instructing it
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: or asking for it. but it doesn't make her look
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: good at all. This interesting story, Chelsea Handler says that
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: RFK Jr. and Cheryl Hines left a $ 6 million L.A.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: mansion unlivable. I saw the clip. She was doing her
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: show or an interview, and she is talking about him.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: She's not a fan of RFK Jr. 's politics or
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: his style. And she mentions that she bought the house
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: five years ago and she hasn't been able to move
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: in because it's so unlivable. Well, you're thinking, how could
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that happen? Well, I read the article and she said,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: we did it through two different trusts so that it
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be an article on TMZ that she bought the house.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: People this way also have their privacy and someone doesn't
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: know that you own it. However, I don't know why
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: she didn't get proper inspections. As a former realtor who
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: grew up in real estate, home inspections are very, very important. Now,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: oftentimes when you watch, you know, Million Dollar Listing and
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Selling Sunset, people are like, all cash, waive all inspections. Okay,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: sometimes that happens. You waive the inspections. It's a very
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: risky thing to do because you don't know if the
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: house has mold, whatever. She says it doesn't even have foundation.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: You know, she's also just being funny, but still. The
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: house was built originally in 1937. They did not build it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: They are not the original owners. They probably lived there
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: for a handful of years and moved on. This is
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: why you have to get your proper things. I actually
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: went house hunting with Chelsea back in the day, and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: she wanted to buy a house that I said, I
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: don't think you should buy it for a safety reason.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: It just makes sense when I think about how she
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: is sometimes maybe putting her opinion in someone else, like
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: giving them the power to do it. I have a
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: whole thing, I'll talk more about it on Patreon, why
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: this happens in LA with stars when they allow their
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: financial people to make the decisions for them. But the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: point is, find a good home inspector and be there
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: for the inspection and have them walk you around and
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: actually show you what they think is a concern or not.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Don't leave it all up to your staff when you're
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: spending $ 6 million on a house. Hope that she knocks
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: it down and makes a beautiful house. Okay, speaking of
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: more legal stuff, Leah McSweeney, this was from last week,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: her case against Bravo with Andy Cohen will be heard
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: in public. So they wanted to keep it to be
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: under arbitration, which is probably part of their contract. If
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: there's any disputes, we go into arbitration, means it's behind
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: closed doors. The judges said no. This is a very
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: interesting case. This is her claiming that Bravo kind of
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: fucked with her sobriety, encouraged alcoholism, and a lot of,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you know, that she would go back to drinking. Also
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: based on Ultimate Girls Trip, there was, I remember there
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: was one little moment where Heather Gay joked and said,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: oh my God, we should get you drunk then or something. Again,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: you don't, you can't really sue for what another cast
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: member says, but apparently she feels she has evidence to
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: prove that she deserves a big payout. They are not settling.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: She hasn't really worked since. She hadn't worked before Real
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Housewives of Beverly Hills. She had a clothing line in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: which she started after she got in a situation with
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: the NYPD where she was drunk and unruly, allegedly. This
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: is a story I remember. And she was tackled or
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: something in the arrest and was able to sue and
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: get a big payout. So that worked in her favor.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: And once again, she believes she has been wronged here.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: So the fact that this could maybe be an actual
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: trial that we kind of walk through and see would
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: be obviously extremely juicy. Also, Below Deck alum, Emil Coetzee
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: is suing Below Deck and the production company and Bravo
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: for a mere $ 850 million. He's saying that based on
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: what was said about him on the show, that he
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: was made to look horrible, that he has been defamed.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: And therefore, usually you come up with a lawsuit amount
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: of money based on what you lost by no longer
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: being on the show and what you'd lose in future earnings. Well,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: being that he was a guy who worked on a yacht,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know how a future of his would ever
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: add up to $ 850 million, but some lawyers chosen to
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: take it. They're probably just hoping again that there would
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: be a payout. But you put yourself on these shows
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: and I know that these contracts are very clear in
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: that people can say stuff about you. You can't sue
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: for defamation. You can't sue your cast members. You're also
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: working on the show. It's just a very reality TV
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: is why, you know, remember the reality reckoning and that
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: was all going to come crumbling down. Well, it hasn't yet.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Somehow people are still signing up to do it and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: to watch it. And like me, talk about it on
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: a podcast. So it's not going away, but you just
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: have to know once you go on the show, you
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: don't have final edit. You don't have a say in
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: what people say or do about you. And I don't
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: know of any case where someone has really won when
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: they've gone for it. So it'll be interesting to see
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: if one of them does prevail. And that doesn't mean
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: a settlement. That means like you went to court, and
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: was awarded something. So that's different. From morning swims.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: In Sandy Cove to coffee in Ranelagh or walks along
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: Sandy Mount Strand. At a certain point, where you live
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: shapes how you live.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe you want.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: More space, a shorter commute or simply somewhere that feels
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: more like where you are now. On daft.ie, you can
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  Speaker 2: Daft.ie i'm darman and this is what happens next each
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: week on the show i sit down with extraordinary people
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: who have faced tremendous setbacks and yet somehow have found
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: a way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Life is one long lesson yeah of chaos I'm heading
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: to the Emmys and I have police complaints filed against me.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: what would you.
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: Do if it was given back? Where did that need
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: come from where you thought that you had to succeed
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: in order to feel loved?
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: He said, I have a work dad.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I need a home dad.
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: What happens next?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: When I came in, he started crying.
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: happens next.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: every day was. You're worth the work.
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: The comeback, Lisa Kudrow, my former teacher at the Groundlings.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: born and raised right in the Valley in Tarzana next
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: door to me, went to Taft High. I love her
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: so much. And I'm so excited for this. This is
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: my umpteenth request to have Lisa Kudrow, please come on
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Juicy Scoop. I would love to interview you. This is
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: hands down my favorite show. I can't believe it's coming
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: back yet again. And it's airing on HBO Max on
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: March 22nd. And I'm just so excited. Nothing brings me
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: more joy than this show. Kylie is on top is
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the title of the Vanity Fair cover. And it's Kylie
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and she looks amazing. You know, she's doing the power
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: move that started about eight years ago where women just
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: like spread their legs like this, like a big crotch spread,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: which is the opposite of crossing your legs. just like
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: very much, and she's wearing like a cute equestrian outfit.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: It's a great cover. They've lightened her brows, which is
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: always like a weird, unique look, but it looks good
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: on her. And she's smoking. And I just want to say,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: somebody please find the episode where I said, smoking is
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: going to come back in. That's going to be the
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: cool thing to do. That's going to be the sign
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: of luxury. Like, yeah, I can afford a $ 10 pack
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: of cigarettes. And I don't give a fuck that it's
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: going to hurt my health and get my teeth yellow
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and age my face because I could afford plastic surgery after.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And I'm not going to vape like some loser on
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the corner. I'm going to actually smoke a cigarette and
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: look like a fucking badass that lived a life of
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: previous decades that we all yearn for. So I told
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: you it was going to happen. It's fucking going to happen. No,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I don't endorse it. No, I don't like it. But
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: this was a direct move. Grab a cigarette. Everyone lost
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: their minds when Dorit smoked. It's something about like, I don't,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: it's the ultimate, I don't give a fuck. We know
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: that it's caused lung cancer and horrible disease and emphysema.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: We used to have to watch a commercial where the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: lady had a hole in her neck and she'd be like,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I want to tell you kids not to smoke. Doesn't matter.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: We forget everything. Everything, including that smoking kills. even though
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: it's sexy and it keeps you skinny. All right, you guys,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to have you guys listen to this
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: great interview. We get into so many juicy things. Let's
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: just get right into it. But remember to go to
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Patreon where that's where the real juicy shit happens. And
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: that is at heathermcdolland.net and we'll be a brand new
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: episode this Friday, as always commercial free. You can listen
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: to all the back episodes if you have yet to
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: have joined. Don't miss out. Change your life and everyone
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: loves it. So here we go. Okay, now I am
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: very excited to have a return guest, an author, a reporter,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: a mom. She's been on Juicy Scoop before. For Tessa Latifi,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: who has a new book coming out that you can
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: pre-order right now called Like, Follow, and Subscribe. And what
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a perfect person to be talking about since we're coming
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: off the topic of Taylor, Frankie, Paul. and her controversy
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: right now with Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and The
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Bachelorette and the accusations of domestic violence and child abuse.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: So with all that being said, welcome back.
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: So for Tessa, I mean, what are your thoughts when
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: you saw what happened in the last, you.
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, it was really harrowing.
• 25:04
  Speaker 7: I think obviously this is not the first time that
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: Taylor Frankie Paul has been accused of domestic violence, but
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: I think you can look at one time and think
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: maybe it was a one-off, maybe it was a strange
• 25:16
  Speaker 7: thing that happened, and they obviously seem to be in
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: a pretty toxic relationship. But for something to come up
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: a second time is really difficult, and especially when it
• 25:24
  Speaker 7: seems like the children were involved.
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: I mean, the first time.
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: In the police report, you can read that she threw
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: a chair at Dakota, her boyfriend, and it hit her daughter.
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: And this time, it seems that it's alleged that their son,
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: their young son Ever, who's a toddler, was in the room.
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: While they were having this experience. And so that's really troubling.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Also, I have someone else cut a, showed a clip
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: from the actual show of Secret Lives of Worn Wives
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: in which Demi, who's no longer really part of the show,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: she refused to do interviews this season. She's having it
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: out with Taylor among the other girls in season four.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: And she says, when are you going to stop? And,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, why don't I ask Dakota? Why don't
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: you stop with him? And I think now that in
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: light of things, it sounds like, you know, the, Men
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: can be physically abused. There's an incredible documentary out about
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: this man. I believe he was in England that was
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: like physically abused by his wife for years. And he
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: like recorded it. And it's, you know, because people don't
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: think it can happen. I'm not saying that is her.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And it's just very interesting. And everyone can chime in
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: because we've all watched her for years on social media
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: where many people fell in love with her and on
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the show for these last few years. And the comments
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: on a video I did where I just kind of asked,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: what should we do? Should they still film? Should they
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: still air The Bachelorette? And I didn't even post the
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: question on that video. But I think the biggest question is,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: if this was a man, You know, would we be
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: featuring him as The Bachelor? And in the comments of
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: my video, someone said he knew how to set her off.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, whoa, would you ever in 2026 tell
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a female who is a victim of a domestic violence situation,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: you knew how to push his buttons?
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: No, that feels like victim blaming.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: You knew to bring up the fact that he hadn't
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a job in six months and therefore you deserve to
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: be hit.
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: Like, wow.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: What do you mean, press someone's buttons? No one, no
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: matter what someone says to you, you shouldn't put your
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: hands on them. Especially in 2026, whether you're, you know,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a 6'5 man or a 5'2, 100-pound girl. Like, it's,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: so more and more is coming out. And I guess
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: this fight happened now, like, February 24th or something. And
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: so so again, the fans of Taylor are saying, well,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: he's choosing to go forward with this account or whatever
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: now and share his story because he's so jealous that
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: she's coming out with The Bachelor. And I'm like, and
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: then the other part is we know that now that
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: she picked some guy named Doug and that clearly she
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: didn't last with Doug because she went back with Dakota
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: and then probably thought he was cheating or something. I mean,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: pretty ironic that you're mad at someone for cheating when
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: you went and dated 30 men prior to that. Yeah.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: But it's all ugly. And then it all comes to
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: the kids. And, you know, in this particular show, everybody
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: has a fresh baby for us to oogle at. And
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: they're all adorable.
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, of course.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're babies. They're perfect babies. babies and they're
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: all attractive people. And some of the couples have great
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: partners who are the dads who are like very supportive,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: like Whitney's husband. But I mean, what do you think
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: about that? That's truly the Truman show and that these
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: kids from the moment they're born, I mean, it happened
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: with Mason on the Kardashians and he's kind of really
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to be in the camera as much anymore.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: From the moment you're born, you're on TV.
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: Or, you know, I think about the kids from Teen Mom,
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: you know, I'm 32 and I grew up with Teen
• 29:22
  Speaker 7: Mom and 16 and pregnant. And those kids were their
• 29:24
  Speaker 7: births were literally taped. And, you know, Mason's birth on
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: Keeping Up with the Kardashians was literally taped. And so
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: these kids are just in the spotlight from the very beginning.
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: And I do think it's fascinating, especially on Mormon wives,
• 29:38
  Speaker 7: where they're having these really adult conversations. around older kids
• 29:42
  Speaker 7: who can understand it. I mean, if it's a baby,
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: obviously a baby doesn't get it. You can talk about
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: whatever in front of a newborn baby, but there's this
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: scene where Taylor and her mom are talking about her
• 29:51
  Speaker 7: toxic relationship with Dakota in front.
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: Of her older children. And I'm just like, It's just strange.
• 29:57
  Speaker 7: And for the camera to be there and to be
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: capturing every moment of your mother's toxic relationships, I can't
• 30:05
  Speaker 7: imagine how that must feel.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I also feel in this day and age, it's such
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: a hamster wheel because, and you talk about this in
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: your book, because one of the people that you interviewed
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: that's making $ 500, 000 a year doing what she's doing, is like,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: she's like, if I could not be on the internet,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be. But it is how I make $ 500, 000
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: a year. She was a Christian girl who, you know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: got married young, had a baby at 18 and just
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: had a knack for putting out content that was, you know,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: she knew how to edit it and people liked it
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: and all this. Of course, she has her haters too.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: But like, what is she going to do now? Is
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: she going to, you know, throw it away and go
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: to nursing school, which is incredibly difficult and it's not
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: going to make her $ 500, 000 a year. So I get,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: and now all the guys, they don't have their jobs
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: anymore because they had to step in as the dads.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: So they're trying to make this stupid dad talk work.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Nobody wants dad talk.
• 31:07
  Speaker 7: Stop trying to make dad talk happen. I literally, can
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: I tell you that I fast forward through the dad
• 31:12
  Speaker 7: talk scenes?
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: I don't care. Also, they're like making fun of the
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: women and they feel resentful towards them.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: They're so resentful.
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: Riding their coattails. And it's just like gross.
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: I'm just like the only one who I think is
• 31:23
  Speaker 7: a truly supportive husband is Connor as Whitney's husband. When
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: she's crying about like, I feel like I'm not around
• 31:29
  Speaker 7: for the kids, blah, blah, blah. And he tells her,
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: I've got you. Like, I've got them.
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: Like, don't worry. Like, this is a big moment in
• 31:35
  Speaker 6: your career.
• 31:35
  Speaker 7: And when you look at Jen's relationship where her husband
• 31:40
  Speaker 7: is telling.
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: Her like, why aren't you home more? Why aren't you
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: doing this? And it's like, but you're... But you don't
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: have a job.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: She's the breadwinner.
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: So what do you want her to do?
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: When I saw that with Jen and Zach, I felt
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the immediate anxiety of codependency that you would feel having
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: a great moment and looking over and seeing that your
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: man is like annoyed that you're getting the attention and
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: he is not. And how now you have to manage
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: that along with being on, being a delight. you know,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: these girls, which is just fascinating when I saw Jen
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: have the stylist come, you know, with all the clothes
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: lined up, you know, which she needs. And it's like,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I've done that. I've had a press tour and all
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. I didn't have a stylist. I
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: did my own thing, but it is very overwhelming. And
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: she's this for a normal person in Hollywood. this would
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: have been many years to get to a level of
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: a stylist comes over to make sure that you have
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: something for the Emmys and the this and the that.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's 15, 20 years, like from the time
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: that you were taking acting classes to then you got
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the five and under spot, then you got the sitcom stuff.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Now you're, you know, you did the growlings. Now you're
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Lisa Cadrell, you're 30 years old. You're finally on friends.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Like that's, that's the trajectory that my generation knew. This is,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: You know, you have a hotspot on TikTok because you
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: admit to being a swinger. And literally three and a
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: half years later, you're the star of this huge thing.
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: At the Emmys or the Oscars.
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah. Right.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Which can all be taken from you. Like with, you know, Frankie, Taylor, Paul. Taylor, Frankie, Paul.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: And as we... And it's a great name, by the way.
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: It is, yeah.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: TFP, but... She's on the Today Show. They clearly want
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: us to watch this. As of now, there's no talk
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: of not airing it. I think it's incredible that when
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you look at people that have had TV shows for years,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: like some of the Vanderpump stars and things like that,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: that they found a tweet that they wrote when they
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: were 15 and it was instant firing, you're losing a tour, dah, dah, dah, dah.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: This is over with. You said a dumb thing on
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: an Instagram. You, you, uh, saying a song that was
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: caught on video that had the N word in it.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And you said it, you're done like losing guilt. And this,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I'm just kind of like, it is shocking. And it,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a state of how bad
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Hollywood is as far as financial and morality and everything else.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: But listen, am I curious to watch it? Yeah. I mean,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I haven't watched The Bachelorette in a few seasons. And
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I actually was on it years ago. And so I
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: was going to watch it, at least skim through it
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: or look for the highlights. With this, even though we
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: know she ends up with Dakota and what goes on,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I think people would watch it because they're like, who
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: is this chick? So I can see, I just can't
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: imagine what are the calls and is happening with all
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: these executives.
• 34:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: And can they just make us forget the way they do?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: People forget.
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: People forget.
• 35:05
  Speaker 7: But I also think that like, There are sponsors pulling out,
• 35:09
  Speaker 7: like Cinnabon pulled out of The Bachelorette as a sponsor.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't realize Cinnamon pulled out of the show.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I just thought she had a deal with Cinnamon.
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: No, no, it was from the show.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:19
  Speaker 7: So I think if it affects their bottom line, they
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: might have to think about it a little bit differently.
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: Because I think this is all a financial decision, right?
• 35:27
  Speaker 7: Like they're deciding, is the money we sink into the
• 35:30
  Speaker 7: show worth going forward or worth scrapping it? But if
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: they're going to lose... future advertisers, like maybe it's not
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: worth it.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is, is that, you know, what
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: are you going to put in an old season of
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: some ABC sitcom? Like it, this is still traditional TV.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: It has a time on an actual night. So it's like,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: if something goes to happen with my show, I'm like, okay,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: let me scramble and, you know, let me do something else.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And it's me, but you're not If they don't air it,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: they're essentially losing whatever, 20 hours or how many episodes
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: they are.
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: Totally.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: That's set in the schedule of traditional TV. And I
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: think that's why they're not automatically saying, hey, we're not
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: going to air this. And it's one thing for the
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: production on the other show, Secret Lives, to stop because
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: they're just filming it. So they can tell everybody you're
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: going to take a two-week break. They probably won't pay
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: them either. But, you know, poor staff. Yeah. So what
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: do you think should happen as someone who has really
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: studied this with your book, which is all about the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: whole world of family vlogging and mommy influencers and also
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Mormons being such great influencers and why?
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they're wildly good at it.
• 36:51
  Speaker 7: I think everyone honestly has to make their decision about
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: whether they're comfortable watching this on their own. And I
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: think I was looking at the bachelor subreddit last night
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: and there were just thousands of comments of people being like,
• 37:02
  Speaker 7: this is the first season that I will not watch.
• 37:04
  Speaker 7: And people really were taking this seriously because I think
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: part of Taylor Frankie Paul's allure is that she's like
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: this messy kind of girl. And like, she's always kind
• 37:12
  Speaker 7: of making mistakes and she's like owning up to it
• 37:15
  Speaker 7: or whatever. But then this is different, you know, like
• 37:17
  Speaker 7: alleged domestic violence and alleged child abuse. Like that's not messy.
• 37:21
  Speaker 7: Like that's just terrible, you know? So I don't think
• 37:25
  Speaker 7: people want to see it. And it's like, interesting because
• 37:27
  Speaker 7: I wanted to watch her season I was really interested
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: and I also haven't watched The Bachelorette in years because
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: I think it's just like a waning show but once
• 37:35
  Speaker 7: I saw that like she ends up back with Dakota
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: and she ends up in this terrible situation it's like
• 37:39
  Speaker 7: why do I want to watch her get there like
• 37:41
  Speaker 7: it it just takes the wind out of the sails
• 37:43
  Speaker 7: of the whole thing because the promise of The Bachelorette
• 37:46
  Speaker 7: is you're like watching some people fall in love but
• 37:48
  Speaker 7: if you know that she's gonna go back to her
• 37:50
  Speaker 7: ex-boyfriend then it's like well what's the point of.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Watching And also, you know, we've had parents on the
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: show before on The Bachelorette and The Bachelor where a
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: guy has a kid or whatever. And part of it is, oh,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you know, by the seventh, you know, episode, the little
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: girl can come on the Disney trip with them or whatever.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: But other than that, they're not seeing their kids. Now,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: there are people that don't see their kids for months
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: because they're on a movie set or they're fighting a
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: war or it's the dad. So I don't want to
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: like parent shame her. And I don't know that in
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: her case, maybe they had an Airbnb down the street
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: with grandma and the three kids the whole time and
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: she could visit them all the time. So we don't
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: know what that situation is. But at this point, as
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: she's doing the press and everything, and she's like, my
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: kids come first. I'm like, okay, if they come, if
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: you're saying they come first, because this is how I
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: make my money now is to film and be on
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: The Bachelor and everything. But when you just think about, like,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: you have two baby daddies, three kids. You have a
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: swinging scandal. You already were arrested before. You have this
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: volatile relationship with this guy. I mean, if it wasn't
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: about money and a career, you could not think of
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: a worse opportunity for her. Anything could have been better.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Masked singer. dancing with the stars like the two other
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: girls did. Anything could have been better than, and I
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: feel like when she was offered it, if someone was
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: around her, said it would go, hold out for Dancing
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: with the Stars. Maybe go on whatever, something else if
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: you need it, but you probably don't. Like, it just
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: was like the worst thing that you could do. Like, really?
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: You need to go now date 30 more guys? I'm sorry.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: People are going to be mad that I said it.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: But like, I'm sure most girls that are watching this,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: especially ones that have young kids, are like, we all, yeah,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: you all deserve to find love. But also, I know
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of single moms that take off significant time.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: between relationships and don't date at all.
• 40:09
  Speaker 7: And then what, you bring this man home that they
• 40:11
  Speaker 7: don't know at all and you're like, this is my
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: new fiance.
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: Like, did you watch Love is Blind this season?
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Just parts of it, but you go ahead, talk about it.
• 40:19
  Speaker 7: Yeah, there was a mom, there was a single mom
• 40:22
  Speaker 7: named Amber on the show and I loved her as
• 40:24
  Speaker 7: a character. I loved her as a person, but like,
• 40:26
  Speaker 7: it was so troubling to me. Like when they showed
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: up to the wedding and her daughter, who I think
• 40:31
  Speaker 7: was around like eight, like, had just met the future
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: husband the day before. And then the daughter looked really
• 40:38
  Speaker 7: uncomfortable with the filming and was kind of like, which like, duh,
• 40:41
  Speaker 7: it's really overwhelming. But I was watching that and I
• 40:43
  Speaker 7: was like, Amber, girl, you deserve love, et cetera, et cetera.
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: But this is not a good choice.
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: Maybe a hot take and people won't like it, but
• 40:52
  Speaker 7: I don't think that single parents should be on dating
• 40:55
  Speaker 7: shows because then what you come home and you introduce
• 40:57
  Speaker 7: this guy and you're like, you don't know him, but
• 41:00
  Speaker 7: he's your new stepdad, you know? And then this couple divorced,
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: they got married on the show and then they divorced
• 41:06
  Speaker 7: a few months later. And in the reunion, she's crying
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: about how her daughter took the divorce. And it's like,
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: I really feel for them, but I'm also like, this
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: was almost like bound to happen. Like how, I don't
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: understand like bringing in a random guy into your daughter's life.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, how can an eight-year-old understand they're eight? This
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: is your new daddy. Oh, good. Now I have a dad.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: And now he's gone. Is he gone because of me?
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Now my mommy's crying. Did I do anything wrong? Was
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: he not cut out to be a dad? I mean,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: those must be the thoughts. And talk to anybody who's
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: an adult now that had multiple step-parents. And it's a
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: different childhood than someone that didn't. That didn't just, or
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: they just, it's different than someone who had a solid
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: single parent. It's different than someone who had, you know,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: gay parents. It's different than someone who had a traditional family,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: you know, per se. It's, they go through stuff that
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: if you did not go through that as a kid,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: you don't understand that feeling of abandonment. And did I
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: do something wrong?
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: And.
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: And it's not to say that single parents don't deserve love. Obviously,
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: they do.
• 42:17
  Speaker 7: But I think part of being a parent is putting
• 42:20
  Speaker 7: your child first and saying it's not the time right
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: now or this is not the right way to do it,
• 42:24
  Speaker 7: to just show up at home with this new fiance.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, I totally agree. Let's get into some of your
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: book because it's really fascinating. I know you've worked on
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: it for a long time. You've done so many interviews.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I thought was the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: juiciest is that you found from numerous parent influencers, mom influencers,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: said the videos that always did the best, meaning they
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: got the most views, immediately were being shared, watched through
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: the entirety, was when it featured their children being sick, injured,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: or sad. Yeah. Wow.
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: I mean, for me, I've had that instinct for a
• 43:10
  Speaker 7: few years that this was true. But for them to
• 43:12
  Speaker 7: know it consciously and to admit it to me and
• 43:15
  Speaker 7: to tell me about it, I think it really changed
• 43:17
  Speaker 7: my understanding of what's going through their mind when they
• 43:20
  Speaker 7: record it.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: And I always remember that one video where the girl
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: got caught. She was filming with her son and it
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: was that the dog had died.
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: The dog had like parvo. I don't have dogs, so
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: But it's like a disease, a like fatal disease that
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: young puppies get. And she was telling the son that
• 43:43
  Speaker 7: like the dog might die. And he's crying on her shoulder,
• 43:47
  Speaker 7: like legitimately crying. I think he was like around eight
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: years old. And then she's saying she accidentally uploaded this
• 43:52
  Speaker 7: to YouTube instead of editing it. And she's saying, no, no,
• 43:55
  Speaker 7: turn your face so they can see your tears and
• 43:57
  Speaker 7: cry this way. And he's like, mom, I am crying
• 44:00
  Speaker 7: like you don't have to tell me to cry.
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: I am crying.
• 44:02
  Speaker 7: And she's just like coaching him on which way to
• 44:05
  Speaker 7: turn his face so that they see the tears. And
• 44:07
  Speaker 7: it's just like, I don't know. There are a lot
• 44:10
  Speaker 7: of things that I can like empathize with. Like as
• 44:13
  Speaker 7: a parent, I wouldn't make those choices, but I can
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: understand being in a different position in my life and
• 44:18
  Speaker 7: choosing those things. But to coach your kid when they're
• 44:22
  Speaker 7: already devastated and crying and to tape it and to
• 44:26
  Speaker 7: post it, I mean, I don't understand. Like, can you
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: understand that?
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: What are your thoughts on it?
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I just think that with this younger generation who are parents,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: they were raised themselves being into social media. So they
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: start doing it. And they like the views, even if
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: they're not making money from it. Totally. They like that
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: it's getting attention. And it just becomes natural. Just like
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: if you were to tell your kid 30 years ago.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: They're 12, but they're still going to work at the
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: ice cream shop that the family owns.
• 45:12
  Speaker 6: Sure.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Like you still have to show up on Saturday and
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: stock the cones or whatever it is. And technically, yeah,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: he's 12. He probably shouldn't be doing that. When my
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: parents were realtors, I had to drop off these notepads
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: at every house and I had to deliver pumpkins and
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: we had to stuff envelopes and I had to try
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: to get them listings. And so I do get it,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: but it's about the weird exposure and the emotionalness of
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: it all. And the illness too, that was the other
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: crazy story was that family. And you talked about this
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: as well, that put one of their daughters on the thumbnail.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: And I know how thumbnails work because we do YouTube
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: for my show as well. And, but you don't want
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: to be dishonest about what the thing is, you know,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: like I wouldn't put, you know, whatever, something that's not
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: the guest, you know, like, like let's, let's say for this,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I put, I'm talking to, I got an exclusive with
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Taylor Frankie Paul. Well, I didn't get an exclusive. We
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: talked about her, you know, but this one was even worse.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: They did the little girl and it said, whatever her
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: name was, Posey or what was her name?
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Posey has cancer story or something.
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: She has cancer documentary.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: And so people are like, oh my God, now they're invested.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: They've watched this little girl. They think this family's cute.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: And she didn't have cancer. And then the video switches
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: to some other little girl that has cancer. And at
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: the end, you could do a GoFundMe. And I think
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: what happened to that vlogging family? Because I know there
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: was a lot of backlash over that.
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: There was a ton of backlash.
• 46:53
  Speaker 7: I mean, people were like, you basically click baited us
• 46:55
  Speaker 7: into thinking that your daughter has cancer.
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: Like what? what are you thinking?
• 47:00
  Speaker 7: And they had had a lot of like clickbaity titles
• 47:02
  Speaker 7: in the past, but nothing so explicit. And to clickbait
• 47:05
  Speaker 7: with like a child's potential cancer diagnosis is just like,
• 47:08
  Speaker 7: kind of beyond the pale. So there was a ton
• 47:10
  Speaker 7: of backlash. And I think they've started doing less personal
• 47:13
  Speaker 7: content because of that. But they're still one of the
• 47:14
  Speaker 7: biggest family vlogging families out there. So I think when
• 47:17
  Speaker 7: it comes to backlash, the bigger you are, the more
• 47:20
  Speaker 7: you're able to withstand it, you know, like it kind
• 47:22
  Speaker 7: of bounces off you. Whereas That woman who posted the
• 47:26
  Speaker 7: video of her son crying where she's encouraging him to cry,
• 47:29
  Speaker 7: she only had 500,000 YouTube subscribers, so she wasn't able
• 47:32
  Speaker 7: to bounce back. But the LeBrant family who did the
• 47:34
  Speaker 7: She Has Cancer, they have, I don't know, over 8 million,
• 47:39
  Speaker 7: I want to say, YouTube subscribers, so they're able to
• 47:41
  Speaker 7: bounce back.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: You know, I remember, but before I forget, I want
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: to make sure that before I go off of this
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: tangent since I had so much going through. is I
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: also want to talk about how a person described in
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: your book why family vlogging is popular. And that was,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: so just hold that thought real quick. But I do
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: want to say, it reminded me of, remember the woman
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: who got, who claimed that she was being followed around
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: by what she believed were kidnappers at the Michaels in
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Northern California, Petaluma. And I remember where I was when
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: the video popped up and what she said. And I remember,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I don't mean to pat myself on the back, but
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I literally said to the person that was working for
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: me at the time, I think this is fake. I
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: think this girl is trying to get views. It was
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: in her car. She acted like she was panicked. We
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: later found out she filmed that after she came home,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: thought about it, went into the car, and filmed it.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Later on, it became a case. This poor family, they
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: were grandparents, they weren't doing anything wrong. The whole thing
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: was made up, but there was a panicked time of where,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: you know, and people are, kids are getting stolen in traffic,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: but it was a time where, oh my God, you know,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: so it got a lot of views, beware, all this
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: other stuff really damaged that couple's life and they were
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: completely innocent. And again, like, the same thing of I
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: want my kid to be feeling sad or hurt gets
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of views. It's why adults, we've joked about,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: they're about to cry and they're like, let me film
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: myself crying because those get views because you're scrolling and
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: you see someone you follow or even someone crying and
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: you're like, my God, what do they cry about? So
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: now you're, and it's like, there's no other time where,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: you know, that's what people would do in their privacy.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: And now it's like, oh my God, this will get
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: you views, your vulnerability to show that you're crying, you know?
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: It's, it's crazy. And, So now I wanted to mention that,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: that going in the car, because, you know, I made
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: a funny video the other day of how like you
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: have to eat or do contouring your nose or go
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: in the car or walk or act or even act
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: like you're driving. That always works well. Like something about
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: it works better than you just talking to the camera.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Like last night when I did the thing about my
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: take on Taylor and asking people what they think. I'm like,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to talk to the camera. I know
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: it's not going to get as many views if I
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: was like, and you know what? I'll tell you something else.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that is?
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: I'm always like, this makes me nervous. Why are you driving?
• 50:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, same.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: But I think it's because they know that the algorithm,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: whatever works better, if you're doing makeup, eating... even walking
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: in your neighborhood, something about it. And so it's like,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: just like your influencers that you followed said, I realized,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: So I think once you realize it, you're like, well,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: why would I go back to anything else? So the
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: kid who's crying is sad. Nobody invited him to the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: birthday party. I mean, that's another thing. When people do that,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: when they're like in the car, like they just got
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: dropped the kid off the, and it was like, let
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: me tell you something. All these moms are so mean.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: They don't invite me to anything. And my kid wasn't
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: invited to the birthday party. I'm like, what do you
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: think those moms are going to do now?
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: Like, is this going to help?
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: They're all going to share it with each other and
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: they're going to be like, we don't want to fuck
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: with you. Essentially. That's what happened with the stars, with
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the Hillary Duff thing where Hillary Duff said, Oh, wrote
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: the thing about toxic moms. And everybody's like, we're certainly
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: not going to invite you now. Like, like you don't
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: need to like, we know who you are. Yeah. We
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: know you're at our school. Yeah. Um, Yeah. I think
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: that's also really sad about when people say like, my
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: kid wasn't invited to anyone's house or they have no friends. Like,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: why would you do that? And then, but then I
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: think that's a lure too, because then people are like,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: that's it. Where's the GoFundMe? I'm going to send your
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: kid to Disneyland.
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: It's so bleak. It's so bleak.
• 52:10
  Speaker 7: And I think it's like taking those things that you're
• 52:13
  Speaker 7: worried about for your kid. Like we all have those, right?
• 52:16
  Speaker 7: Like oh, I feel like my kid isn't as socially
• 52:19
  Speaker 7: adept as other kids or they're not invited to things
• 52:21
  Speaker 7: or whatever. But then taking it online, like that's not
• 52:23
  Speaker 7: going to make it better. Like, especially when the kids
• 52:26
  Speaker 7: are older, like those kids, their peers can find it online.
• 52:29
  Speaker 7: And then they're going to be like, ha ha, Jimmy,
• 52:31
  Speaker 7: your mom's talking about how you don't have friends.
• 52:33
  Speaker 6: You know what I mean? Like, it's not going to help.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: No, it's not. And the other thing in your book
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: that I thought was interesting that I talked about before
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: is why do people like are attracted to following these families?
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: because I don't follow any family vloggers. It doesn't interest me.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: My kids are older. It doesn't interest me. I don't
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: want to see it. But what your expert said was,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: it's like when you would go to someone's house for
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: the first time for a sleepover, which now no one
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: has sleepovers either. And no one's going to each other's
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: houses because even if you played video games, it used
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: to be kids 15 years ago had to sit next
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: to each other to play video games. Well, now they don't.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: So they really don't have to go to anyone's houses.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: And everyone's like, don't go to another person's house because
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: they'll molest you. But when you'd go to someone else's
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: house and you'd see, like, oh, I love that they
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: do this. Or, oh, my God, you guys are just
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: going to, like, I remember that I went to this
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: lady's house and she had, like, seven kids. And they
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: had a nice house. And she came down and was like,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: can you guys be quiet? And she was always in, like,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: her pajamas. And I was like, oh. That's interesting. Like,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. You know, like, we had fun and they're like, okay,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: you know, like. And that's, but also in our generation,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: people went to other people's houses. So I thought that
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: was really kind of crazy.
• 53:47
  Speaker 7: I think the way that we think about other families
• 53:52
  Speaker 7: is it's just fascinating, right? It's the same reason that
• 53:54
  Speaker 7: like keeping up with the Kardashians or Teen Mom or,
• 53:58
  Speaker 7: you know, John and Kate plus eight or the Duggars,
• 54:01
  Speaker 7: like all of those things, like it's so fascinating to
• 54:03
  Speaker 7: to see how other families live their lives. Like, especially
• 54:07
  Speaker 7: when there's some kind of hook, when there's like a
• 54:09
  Speaker 7: ton of kids or when they're religious or when they
• 54:11
  Speaker 7: homeschool or that kind of thing.
• 54:13
  Speaker 6: It's like, wait, people live like this?
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: And why, when you talk about religious, you did a
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: whole chapter of your book of how the Mormons have
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: really excelled in influencing. And can you explain what you found?
• 54:29
  Speaker 7: So they're, Of the US population, only 2% identify as
• 54:34
  Speaker 7: Mormon or from the Church of Latter-day Saints. But if
• 54:36
  Speaker 7: you compare that to the amount of influencers that are Mormon,
• 54:40
  Speaker 7: it's like astronomical. Like I would say most of the
• 54:43
  Speaker 7: most famous family vloggers and mom influencers are Mormon or
• 54:46
  Speaker 7: Mormon adjacent, but it's not surprising when you look at
• 54:48
  Speaker 7: the religion.
• 54:49
  Speaker 6: And there are a few different reasons for that.
• 54:51
  Speaker 7: But one is that they are encouraged to have kids
• 54:53
  Speaker 7: really young and have a lot of kids. We know
• 54:55
  Speaker 7: that does really well for the algorithm. The algorithm loves babies.
• 54:59
  Speaker 7: We also know that the Mormon church says that being
• 55:03
  Speaker 7: beautiful is godly. And so being, presenting yourself in a
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: beautiful manner is a way to be closer to god
• 55:10
  Speaker 7: and not only that but they have this thing called
• 55:12
  Speaker 7: the prosperity doctrine where basically the idea is that the
• 55:16
  Speaker 7: more godly you are the more likely you are to
• 55:19
  Speaker 7: prosper financially and so you have this religion where young
• 55:23
  Speaker 7: women are told to be beautiful to have kids really
• 55:25
  Speaker 7: young and that making money is a sign of godliness
• 55:28
  Speaker 7: and it's like well of course they're perfect influencers and
• 55:32
  Speaker 7: they're always um they're journaling is a really big thing
• 55:36
  Speaker 7: in the mormon church and so young women especially are
• 55:39
  Speaker 7: taught to journal from a very young age and keep
• 55:42
  Speaker 7: very detailed records and so it's like what is influencing
• 55:45
  Speaker 7: if not.
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: Journaling out you know out loud.
• 55:49
  Speaker 7: And it's like it's also mormonism is a very patriarchal
• 55:52
  Speaker 7: religion and so they're not meant to work outside the
• 55:56
  Speaker 7: house but this is kind of a loophole of like
• 55:58
  Speaker 7: you're working inside the house but you're also working outside the.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: House Right, the same reason MLMs strive to do so
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: well in that. Yeah, in Utah, yeah. Yeah, I do
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: think it's interesting watching the Secret Lives of Moran Wives
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: because they all have these hair extensions. Yeah, they're so long.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, wait a minute. Are you telling me
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: not one girl could naturally grow her hair that long? Like,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: it's this excessive amount. Like, I'm guessing you guys, without
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: the extensions, could still have beautiful hair. Yeah. And I'm
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: not against extensions. I just think it's interesting that every
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: single one feels the need to have that and lip
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: filler and be really thin. You know, and so I
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: did not know about the beauty being a part of godliness.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: And I think that is so... Interesting, because it's like
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: in Catholicism, it's like vanity is sin. Yeah, it's not good. Yeah.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: So it's like you get too much. It's almost like, oh,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: my God. You know, my mom would always be like,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: that woman's a saint. And she'd look like shit, you know.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Seven kids, she'd be like, you know, cleaning out the
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: vestibule and like doing all the things at the church.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: And like, no, that woman was not put together. You know,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: it's just so... I find that fascinating. Another thing I
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: want to talk about is you said, oh, I wanted
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: to know, did you find if when the kid is
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: on a big YouTube and stuff and they're of elementary
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: age or middle school, does that make them more popular
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: in the class, in the school?
• 57:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really complicated because some of the kids that
• 57:46
  Speaker 7: I talked to told me people are really interested in
• 57:48
  Speaker 7: my YouTube fame. But once they realize that I won't
• 57:51
  Speaker 7: put them on my channel, then they kind of turn
• 57:53
  Speaker 7: away from it. And then I'm a bit of a
• 57:55
  Speaker 7: pariah because the thing is like kids are the same
• 57:58
  Speaker 7: as us. Like they want that clout. And if it's
• 58:00
  Speaker 7: a family channel and you're not going to bring friends
• 58:02
  Speaker 7: on it, then it's like not as interesting. But I
• 58:05
  Speaker 7: think it's also difficult because I talked to a few
• 58:07
  Speaker 7: years ago, a young woman who her mom and this
• 58:10
  Speaker 7: is not uncommon. People are like always mind blown. But
• 58:14
  Speaker 7: her mom made a sponsored post out of her first
• 58:17
  Speaker 7: menstrual cycle.
• 58:18
  Speaker 6: And then she had to go to middle school and
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: people were like, oh, we know you got your period.
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: And that's like terrible. Like what?
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: That is crazy. I remember that story like that is
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: so crazy. And I also think like, you know, my
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: my sister was successful child actor doing commercials, just commercials.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: So she never left the school, but she'd be taken
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: out for one day or whatever. And that's back when,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, there was only whatever, five channels and
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: people would see her commercial, bold three and a couple
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: other things. And it was a big talk at the
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: school and she was like kind of being bullied. And,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: but in that case, she couldn't put them on TV because, Yeah, right.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: So like I get why, well, and I wonder if
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: like other mothers want to be friends with that mother too. Like, well,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: maybe I should be doing this as well. I know
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: from Real Housewives that I'm friendly with and have interviewed,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: they get to a place where they don't know if
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: a new female friend is truly interested in being their
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: friend or they're vying to get on the show somehow.
• 59:24
  Speaker 6: Totally.
• 59:24
  Speaker 7: Totally.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: And not just to attend the party with the cameras,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: like get on the show. And then they, you know,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: and sometimes they definitely don't want that. So they don't
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: make like any other friends for years or they do
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: want it. And then the friend turns on them and
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: then they're like, well, I'm never doing that again, you know?
• 59:40
  Speaker 6: Right, right.
• 59:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it's really difficult as a kid in
• 59:43
  Speaker 7: general to make friends, let alone being like, oh, I'm
• 59:46
  Speaker 7: this huge famous YouTuber and do people want to be
• 59:48
  Speaker 7: my friend because they want to like clout chase off
• 59:51
  Speaker 7: of me or because they think I can make them
• 59:52
  Speaker 7: famous or do they generally, genuinely want to be my friend?
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now you said also in the book, which I
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: thought was really interesting is, you know, most people, and
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: like I was constantly talking about, you know, well, with
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: the Coogan law, there's laws where you're supposed to definitely give, pay,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: put your kids money when they're on a TV show
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: into an account. I've also said it's a very hard
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: thing to keep track of. A check comes in for $ 800.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: The family easily can cash it and keep it for themselves.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Now the kid is 30. Are they really going to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: track back 15 years? Where's my 800 bucks? So it
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: is a law, but I know there's a couple of
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: states now that are trying to do that for the
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: money that an influencer makes for their kid if they're
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: all doing an ad together. So we've talked about that,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: but what you said was it's really about them being
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: bribed with something else to do the act that they
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: need to get the scene done.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 7: So I talked to a few different family influencers for
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 7: this chapter who told me that their worry is not
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 7: that kids are not getting paid, but it's that they're
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 7: getting paid in the form of bribes. And so these
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 7: laws really don't touch that because if you're still paying
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 7: your child, like you're technically abiding by the law, but
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 7: if it's bribery where like one of the family bloggers
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 7: in my book told me, I used to give my
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 7: kids $ 1, 000 each for a 30 second video because if
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 7: you're making tons of thousands of dollars off the video
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 7: or more, then it's like, What's $ 1, 000, you know, a
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 7: few times? Like, it's not a big deal, but it's
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 7: like that I thought was really interesting because advocates really
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 7: talk about we need to make sure these kids are paid.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 7: But what this family blogger told me is they are
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 7: getting paid, but it's bribery. And so then where does
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 7: that leave us?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Well, they don't have free will. And it's like there
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: were laws, you know, made in the early 1900s or
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: whatever it was in the industrial revolution time where they
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: said kids couldn't work in the factories. You know, that's
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: what child labor laws. But entertainment has always been the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: one place that kids can work. Yeah, we allow it.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: On actors and on sets and all these other things.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: And now this. So my point is they don't have
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: the same right to say, no, I don't want to
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: work today and I'm a child and you can't make me, Mom.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: I don't want to dance around and do the video.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 7: It's also really complicated because I think it's difficult as
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 7: a child to go against your parents in any way,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 7: you know? And so let's say your parent is an
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 7: influencer parent and they.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: Love the work that you do.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 7: And you realize that you're making a lot of money
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 7: and you live in a beautiful house and they have
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 7: a beautiful car. And like one of the young women
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 7: that I talked to Claire, she told me that she
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 7: told her dad once, I don't want to do YouTube anymore.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 7: And he said, Okay, that's fine, but we're going to
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 7: have to move out of our house. Mom and I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 7: are going to have to go back to work, and
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 7: there's going to be no money left over for nice things.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 7: And so it's like, are you really listening to your
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 7: kid when they're telling you that, or are you guilting them?
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It's truly a hamster wheel. Because now, well,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: you know, what are we going to do? So it's like,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just such a slippery slope. I mean, what...
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: How has people's views been affected of the few moms
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: that have said, I'm going to honor this situation. I'm
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: going to give my child some privacy. I'm not going
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: to feature them getting their first period or when they
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: have the flu or even their birthday party. Like what
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: happens to that person? Do they still make money?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 6: So it depends.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 7: If they're a huge creator, they oftentimes can withstand that
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 7: and kind of like, change their content, but they're not
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 7: making as much money. Because I talk in the book
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 7: about these creators who don't show their kids, they'll apply
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 7: for brand deals and the brand deals will be like, okay,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 7: but you have to put your kids in diapers and
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 7: show this new diaper or whatever.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 6: And the creator's like, I'm not doing that.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 7: And then the brand passes because they want the child
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 7: to be in it because we know that content with
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 7: children does better. And so sometimes they can continue their career,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 7: but they're definitely not making as much money as they
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 7: would maybe even by half, as they would if they
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 7: still showed their kid.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: And then I wonder if there's a moment where that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: woman turns around. We thought Mommy Dearest was bad, you know,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: that movie. But, you know, at least the kid didn't...
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: There was a scene in Mommy Dearest that's like, we
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: were supposed to feel sorry for the girl because they
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: were taking one professional photo as a family.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, she was being mean to her and she
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: was physically abusing her and everything. But when you compare
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: it to what a modern day mommy dearest movie could be,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: which I'm sure someone's working on it, you know, about
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: an influencer, like even if someone did try to do
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: the right thing and then the kid is being a
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: bratty kid, like we all have kids that are ungrateful
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: and they don't get it because they're little and you're like,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: you little shit. I could have been making twice this amount,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: but no, I tried to respect your privacy. And now
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: you are not even doing well in school. So you're
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: not going to get a regular job anyway, because you're
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: a dumb ass. Like you don't know like what someone
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: could say to their kid.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 6: I'm done. No, it's so true.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 7: And I think about that, like how difficult it would
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 7: be to get a child to do what you want
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 7: them to do. I mean, like my daughter's a toddler,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 7: but you see this content of other toddlers on Instagram
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 7: and they're perfectly posed and their hair is perfect and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 7: their matching outfit. And like this morning, my daughter went
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 7: to the park in a pajama shirt because she didn't
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 7: want to change.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: And I was just like, okay, whatever. It doesn't really matter.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 6: Like it's a shirt. It doesn't really matter.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 7: But like if I were a mom influencer, how would
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 7: I convince her, you know, or how would I make
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 7: her do what I needed her to do?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: But at that age, you know, that's them asserting themselves.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: And if you constantly deny them, You know, wearing cowboy
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: boots to school or, you know, my sons, it was
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: always the biggest thing is we don't need a jacket.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: We don't need a jacket.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we don't need it.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: And I'd be like, all right. And then I would
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: just pack the jackets. And then when they're shivering, I'd
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: be like, guess what? I actually have a jacket for you. OK,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: thank you. But I get it. It's because, you know,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: they're growing up and they're like, you don't know everything, mom.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: It's sunny now. And I'm like, I know it's sunny now,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: but we're going to be out for five hours.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 6: Guess what? It's going to be cold.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm always just like, and I will be like,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I've lived on this life on this earth a little
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: longer than you. Yeah. I'm going to start using that.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: But they won't.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 6: No, they won't.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 7: I mean, this morning I was just like, you cannot
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 7: go to the park in a pajama shirt.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: And then I was like, who really cares?
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 7: But I do think about like, if I had to
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 7: put her in a perfect outfit and get her hair
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 7: done and do whatever, and have her pose perfectly.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: Like, what would that look like? You know, how could
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 6: I get a toddler to do that?
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like the toddlers and tiaras days,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: those shows. And they had to put them all in.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: And the girl just goes, I just want to swim
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: in like the days in pool. And they're like, well,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: you can't because we, you have hair extensions and a
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: flipper in your mouth. And, you know, we don't want
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: you getting your makeup removed, but I have a four
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: hour break. Well, too bad because, you know, And we
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: were fascinated by that show, you know, 15 years ago.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about your interview that you
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: did for Rolling Stone with Piper Raquel and her history
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: and what she's doing now and what's so interesting about it.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 7: So I talked to Piper Raquel, who is one of
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 7: the main child influencers of the last 10 years, and
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 7: she just turned 18. The really interesting thing about her,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 7: and I'm sure that most of your viewers have watched
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 7: the Netflix documentary, Bad Influence, Dark Side of Kid Influencing,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 7: that really showed the dark side of Piper's upbringing, allegedly.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 7: And she says that it wasn't true, that it wasn't
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 7: an honest reflection of what she experienced. But the point is,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 7: with this and with the court case against her mother,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 7: who was alleged to have abused other kids, other YouTube
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 7: kids that Piper worked with, Piper was kind of blacklisted
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 7: in the industry. No one wanted to work with her.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 7: No one was giving her brand deals or sponsorships.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: You mean after the doc or before the doc?
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 7: So before the doc and then even more after the doc,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 7: but basically when the lawsuit came out, which was a
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 7: few years before the documentary.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: Against her mother.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 6: Against her mother, right.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: From the other kids that were doing the YouTube videos
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: for free and being... Possibly manipulated or sexually exploited kind of.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 7: Right. And so people kind of blamed, I don't know,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 7: Piper was kind of caught up in her mom's downfall.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: People didn't want to work with her.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 7: And as she approached 18, there were lots of rumors
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 7: about like, well, is she going to join OnlyFans? Because
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 7: she did post a lot of salacious content, even like
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 7: on Instagram and TikTok. And then a few months after
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 7: she turned 18, she joined OnlyFans and she says that
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 7: she made $ 2.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 6: 9 million in the first few days.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Is it continuing to roll in like that?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 6: You know, I'm not sure. It seems very popular.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 7: Like she is definitely up there on the OnlyFans ranking,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 7: but I'm not sure exactly how much.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: And then like I saw a clip of a TMZ
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: podcast interview that she did with this other girl that she's,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: you know, collaborating with or whatever. And they show a
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: clip of her being like, and then I was dying
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: and it's one girl pouring like a jug of milk,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: like down her, her throat, but it goes on her boobs.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: I was in the comments were like, we don't need
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: to see this. Like we don't need, it's fine. Make
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: your money. But like, and I get it because it's
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: a cycle and TMZ will get more views off that
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: clip or that podcast then, you know, and I also
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: see like, would you turn down $ 2. 9 million? Especially as
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: an 18-year-old.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Back in the day, you know, there were strippers. And
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: it was always like, well, I'm going to strip to
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: put myself through school. And once I get to a
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: certain age, then I can quit stripping or whatever. And
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: this is, you know, or the dark side of porn. And,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: you know, those people went to become realtors. And then
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: the market dropped. They had to go back to porn. Like,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's... At least they're not having to... at
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: least they have their own say in what they're doing.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: You know, at least they're not going to some gross
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: house in the Valley and, you know, making a one-time
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: payment and having no say and their images can be
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: shared forever. So like, I do think the model is
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: a million times better.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 6: Totally.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: But it also is like, oh, well, I guess you
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: never will experience whatever, whatever people experience, but.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 6: I mean, it seems like she's happy.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Do you think she's happy? She seems happy.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 7: I think it's just difficult for me to, like, talk
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 7: to her and talk about this because she is 18,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 7: but she's so young. I mean, the things that I
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 7: thought I knew at 18 that I don't believe in
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 7: now at 32 are just so drastically different.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 6: And so I think.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 7: it's difficult when you're making these decisions that are kind
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 7: of permanent like you can get off OnlyFans but you
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 7: can never not be not have been on OnlyFans you
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 7: know what I mean like that content will always be
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 7: out there.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah and I just kind of wonder like you know
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: like anything like what what are your you know romantic relationships.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 6: Like yeah I can't imagine.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: You know it's one thing to join when you're whatever
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: 28 and another to join when you're 18 you know
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: um Yeah, I find that very interesting. Also, last thing was,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: I thought the article, the interview, sorry, the chapter in
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: your book about when fans become, I don't know how you,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: what was the title of that chapter?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 6: I don't remember.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Well, it was like when fans become haters or whatever.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 7: When love becomes hate, parasocial relationships and the rise of
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 7: snark communities.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I do think that's so interesting because I never,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: knew that existed until I found mine.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 7: I was going to say, I haven't looked at yours.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 6: Is it big? What is it like?
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, just like your people, I don't want to
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: give it a lot. And what is interesting, what I
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: thought was really interesting, and it's really helpful, everyone should
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: read that chapter that might have one of those.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: Because I have tried to tell people That are suffering
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: from it. And I literally will have a friend that's,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe a couple of years behind me on
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: the rise of what we do.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: And they discover their thing and I see them spiraling.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: I see them giving it attention. I see them defending themselves,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: making videos about it because it's like in your head,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: it's like the whole world is saying this. Yeah. And it,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: and so I think it's a very like interesting, helpful
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: chapter of how, Some of the people that you interviewed
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: talked about how hurtful and everything it can be, which
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I agree. But then also how the only way, which
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: is what I have said, the only way to continue
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: to do what you're doing when this exists is, which
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: I've said, is to treat it like if you were
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: a drug addict and that's heroin and you can never
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: touch it again.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: And it is tempting sometimes.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 6: I can't imagine.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: When you have your phone and you're like... Because someone said, like,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: what if your whole life, you know, before this time,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: you'd go to school and you'd find out two of
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: your best friends were talking about you. And you're like,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? What did they say? So it's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: like you can go and see... That these people that
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: are still your fans because they're spending the time and
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: they're still intrigued. They are.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 6: They are fans. They're anti-fans, but they're fans.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know, and there's been people that have
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: really gone off the deep end. And I remember there
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: was this one influencer that someone sent me a thing
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: about because they're like, because I've talked about this before
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: and I felt so badly for her. She was doing
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: really well. She was known for being curvy and having
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: a cute husband. And they would go and go to
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: a city and try all these restaurants and everything. And
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: the group, in her opinion, got into a place where
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: they were going to jeopardize this trip for her and
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: calling restaurants and making up lies or going to the
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: restaurants and doing 101-star Yelp reviews and all this. So
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: you're fucking up the restaurant, fucking up her career. And
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: I have said, like, the doc I really want is
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: exploring the person that doesn't just lurk on it and
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: read it because maybe they knew the girl in high
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: school and they're just kind of, like, enjoying reading the
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: hate and they kind of enjoy dancing on the grave.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: But the person that actively goes from being a fan
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: to then spending hours a week to try to, like,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: take their... their deals away and take money out of
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: their mouth and what were you what did you find
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: in that.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 7: You know I found that most of the snarkers that
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 7: I talked to were former fans of the people that
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 7: they were snarking about so that's what fascinated me is
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 7: like that's why the chapter is called from love to
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 7: hate is because these people they It's really interesting because
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 7: they say they hate the people that they're snarking on.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 7: But like I was talking to my mom about it.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 7: My mom was like, if I hate something, I just
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 7: don't pay any attention to it.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 6: I don't talk about it. I don't put my effort
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 6: into it.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 7: But these people are spending, like you said, sometimes hours
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 7: per day or per week talking about these people and
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 7: trying to change their lives for the worse. And so
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 7: it's like, I don't know that you can really say
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 7: that you're a hater. Like you are a fan of
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 7: some sort. Like that is fan behavior.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: What I thought was interesting when you're talking about some
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: of the secret snarkers is they're like, but we're calling
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: them out on, you know, if they were wrong or.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 7: There's a moral high ground that they feel that they have.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: It's a moral high ground. Like, we are not going
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: to allow this to happen. Like, the same thing. I'm like,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: you know, I found... I mean, you know, I found that,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: you know, in 2008... on an interview, she mispronounced a word,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: what a fucking idiot. And like, you know, and then
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: also finding their address before they even closed on a house,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: things like that. And I always just wonder if, if
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: you're that person and you're even like listening to this
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: right now, like, does it make you feel good or
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: does it make you feel like a loser who needs
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: to get help yourself? Right. You know what I mean?
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I can't imagine it feels good to spend all
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 7: that time tearing someone else down.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: And then going to the group, it's almost like, you know,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: I've said, and people are going to rail mad when
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: I say this, but I don't care. I always find
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: it crazy when someone gets caught for child porn because
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: they were sharing it with other people. And I'm like,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: why would you, I would think that if you were
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: that sick of a fuck, you would keep it to yourself.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: Why would, It's something that I think by sharing it,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: it like normal, it makes them feel more normal that
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: they're not the only ones that are saying these cruel,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: mean things about somebody in their case. I'm saying the
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: same reason someone shares something as dark as that, obviously
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: this isn't that, but like wanting to find this camaraderie
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: of joy and, but you know what? I, I'm like,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: it is there. It's contained over there. Yeah. You don't
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: have to look at it. You don't have to participate
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: in it. And, you know, someone would argue like it's
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: a level of fame. Like you should be proud that
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: you have one because if you don't have one. Yeah.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Why don't you have one? Yeah. You've been influencing for
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: years or you're a podcast for years. Like, why don't
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: you have one? So I think once you get to
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: that other side, instead of, going, but that's not true.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't do that, or I didn't say that, or
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: I don't feel that way. Forget it. That is the
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: most powerful thing. And then the other thing, go have
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: your fun. Go screen grab every story and say this
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: outfit didn't look good or look at her wrinkly elbow.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, but when you look at it and read
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: it yourself, I don't care how much Of the Kardashian
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: playlist that you have in your head of putting blinders on,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: Khloe used to get bothered, Kim didn't.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 6: Didn't.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: Most people, if they even see it, it will seep
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: in and affect their mood, their day, their week. It
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: will be bad.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 6: I don't see how it couldn't. I mean, thank God.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 7: Knock on wood, I shouldn't even say it out loud,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 7: but I don't have one. And I'm like, I don't
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 7: know how you would be able to not look at it.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 7: Or if you did look at it, how you would
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 7: be able to not take it in. But I think
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 7: you're totally right that like, if you have that many fans,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 7: you're going to have haters.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 6: And it is kind of like a badge of honor.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe if people realize that on both ends,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: it will just change. Like, you know, I would just
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: hate for anyone to get into a place where of
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: real darkness because of some strangers, you know, but, but
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: like I said, sometimes it can go another level where
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: it can like affect friendships, relationships, business partnerships.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: And that is, that's also just being a public person,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: putting it out there, you know?
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it is totally.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: Well, the book is so good. Like, follow and subscribe.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: Great title. You've really done your research. It's really interesting.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I also think it's really fun if you are someone
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: that does follow all these people. You do give all
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: the Instagram accounts and where they are. And it made
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: me want to like look up and kind of go, oh,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: that is, you know, and you might find some people
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: that you end up really, you know, finding interesting or
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: fun or you might be hopping over to the start group.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you might be. Who knows?
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But so tell everybody when it comes
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: out and how they can pre-order and all that.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 7: Yeah. The book comes out on April 7th. You can
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 7: pre-order it now wherever you get your books. And you
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 7: can find me online everywhere at Hi4Tessa, H-I-F-O-R-T-E-S-A. And I
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 7: cannot wait for you guys to read it. It is
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 7: so juicy.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 6: I think you're going to be astonished at the things
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 6: that I found. Yes.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: And we kept a lot. We didn't get into. So
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: we read the book and we'll do another one and
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: talk about it once everyone's bought the books and you're
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: a number one best New York Times bestselling author.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 6: God willing.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: is so organised, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: an early bird, buying one present a week from now
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: till Christmas, which makes budgeting less stressful. I can buy
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: in-store or online from Macaulay.ie for home delivery or free
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: click and collect.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: So easy.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: Gifts they'll cherish at prices you'll love.