Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / "SMILING SISTERS" KITTY & COOKIE HACK MOM OF 5, 32, DEAD IN BROAD DAYLIGHT INTERSECTION

Transcript

"SMILING SISTERS" KITTY & COOKIE HACK MOM OF 5, 32, DEAD IN BROAD DAYLIGHT INTERSECTION · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So called smiling sisters Cookie and Kitty hack a beautiful
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: young mother of five children, two of them autistic. She
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: was just thirty two years old, butchered dead and broad
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: daylight in a busy intersection. Good evening, I Meancy, Grace,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: being with us.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Thirty two year old Caroline Penna, a mother of five
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: from Del Rio, Texas, is viciously attacked. When police locate
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the suspects, they are seen smiling and showing no remorse.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: How is a beautiful young mom of five children hacked
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to death? Five children now without a mother, two of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: them needing special care, two of them are autistic. You
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: are looking at Caroline right now? No argument let up
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to this. Nothing. She was suddenly surrounded by so called
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Cookie and Kitty, the smiling sisters. And we say they're
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: smiling because when they were arrested they managed to mug
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and smile and smirk for photo ops. I'll get to
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: that in a moment. Joining me in All Star panel
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: to make sense of what we know tonight, straight out
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: to special Guests Joining us. Michael Alessando, an independent journalist.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: He actually recorded footage of the sisters smiling in handcuffs
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: while being arrested. Michael Elexando, thank you so much for
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: being with us. Could we show his video that he
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: managed to capture independent journalist look at this? Wait for it, Michael, what,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, could those hotpants be any hotter? Wait
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a minute? What is that on her breast? Oh? It's
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a shirt with two hands over her nipples. Okay, let's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: run that one more time.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, these sisters, there you go, broad deal light, which
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: is a whole another can of worms, broad day light,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: and nothing is going to happen. Kitty Mia Diaz, a
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Maya Cookie Diaz and their friend Renee. What there you go?
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Smile?
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: She looked back for the camera. Okay, back to Michael Alessando,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: independent journalists who happened to be there and managed to
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: capture that footage. Michael Alesando, thank you? What did you observe?
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Okay, I'm the scene, A long one. I noticed a
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: lot of detectives show up to the scene with other
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: police officers, and of course, when I was observing the situation,
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: I noticed one girl come up police officers with a
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: young idium black came pat into the three heat and
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: of course she smirked, and I she was being put in.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: Then about three minutes later, I noticed another young lady
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: hand handkout caring towards me because they parked right next
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: to me at a stop sign. And uh, of course,
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: when that young lady was getting towards me, she uh,
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: she starts smiling and she tells me, why are you recording?
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: I think like a three year old. And of course
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what was going on at that situation.
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: I was left left field. And then she usually they're
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: smiling away being pat into police vehicle. And then a
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: minute later, the back seat wind that goes down noticed
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: her looking out the window, smiling and sticking out her tongue.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: But I don't know if I caught that footage, but
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: I noticed her sticking out her tongue, smiling out the window,
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: and there was again I got a creepy value in
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: that situation, but not knowing what inspired in that point
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: in time.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a moment, guys with me, Michael Elizondo.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Hold on, Michael, I'm hearing in my ear we are
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: just being joined right now. I'm going to circle back
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: to you. Michael, don't move. Christina Selina's is with us.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: She is joining us from Delria. She is Caroline Pina's
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: best friend. Christina, thank you for being with us tonight.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: First of all, I am sorry for what you're going through.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I'm even more sorry for what her children are and
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: will go through. What they are going through tonight, what
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: they will be going through for the rest of their lives.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Is it true, Christina, that two of her five children
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: are autistic?
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am, it is well of them are autistic.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, Christina, I mean what happened to car Caroline is
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: bad enough, that is her children. Okay, Well, we only
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: just start at the beginning. You're seeing Caroline Pinia now
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: and she's just gorgeous, completely devoted to her five children.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: She lived for them. Christina. When did you learn what
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: had happened to Caroline?
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: Well, I was at work, and when I got to work,
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: I just remember I got on Facebook and we have
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: a local page called Rio del Rio. And when I
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: went on that page, that's whenever I seen that they
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: had uploaded that there was an incident going on twenty
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: two minutes ago.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: And in that incident, it was that Caroline had sat
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: there and she.
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: She was stabbed in the back and she was still fighting,
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: so nobody had to tell me it was her. As
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: soon as I found now, I automatically ran and jumped
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: in my car and I took off, and I remember,
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: I just remember, I just knew it was my best friend.
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: Nobody had to tell me anything.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Where you stated, you jumped in your car and took off.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Where did you go?
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: I went to the crime scene on Tenth Street, and
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: nobody was there besides the detective. So I passed by
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: Caroline's house and I didn't see her truck there. So
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: that's when I automatically knew that it was her. And
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: I went to the hospital and I ran into her
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: twin sister and her mother.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: She has a twin, Yes, Mom, she does.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I know, as the mom of twins, that that is
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: a bond that cannot be broken. You got to the hospital,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: you saw Caroline's mother and her twin sister. What happened then?
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: I remember I tried to rush behind the closed doors,
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: and I security guard didn't let me, and I just
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: told him I just wanted to see my friend, and
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: he said I couldn't. So I ran outside and I
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: told her sister what happened, and she told me that
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: she got stabbed, and that's whenever I sat there and.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: It just hit me. Everything hit me at once. I
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: was angry.
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: I was angry at the cops for taking their time,
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: and I was angry at the hospital because she was
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: there in the hospital for over four hours before they
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: tried to fly her out to San Antonio. I believe
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: they could have tried to stop the bleeding, but it
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: wasn't a priority here.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Why do you say that, Christina, Why do you think
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: that Caroline was not a priority.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: In the hospital, because Mom, they have proper surgeons here
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: that can do surgery at least to just stop the
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: bleeding for the meantime until they fly her out. How
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: was it that there was technical difficulties with the first
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: helicopter They had to send her back in for another
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: hour and a half till the second one got here.
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: Then they waited another hour and a half. How they
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: decided to finally fly out when they put it easily
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: driven her to Uvalde. They could have driven her to
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: San Antonio within.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Those four hours. I don't understand.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Why did they wait, Christina? When you went to the
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: crime scene at the intersection, Let's see the video that
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Michael Elizondo has so kindly shared with us. When you
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: got to the intersection, you stated, everything was everybody had gone.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: There were just some detectives there. What were they doing?
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: They were just standing there, and I remember they looked
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: at my car and I just turned away and I
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: went straight to Caroline's house. They were just standing there talking.
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: I remember just really anchored me to see that they
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: were there.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: You stated that you knew it was Caroline when you
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: learned as I have learned, that after she was stabbed
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: in the back, she collapsed and then she tried to
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: stand up up again. Is that your understanding, No, ma'am.
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: She never fell to the floor. She still fought standing
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: up while she was stabbed. She didn't collapse till she
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: got put inside her truck. She was still fighting even
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: with her stab wounds.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Still fighting to live. Tell me about Caroline and what
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: kind of a mom she was.
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: Caroline, I'll tell you one thing for sure. That's the
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: realest person I know I'm ever gonna know in my life.
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: She's someone that you can run to without having to
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: be judged. She's someone that would give you good guidance.
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: She loved her kids, she loved her mom, her sister too.
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: She was a die hard person behind her family. I
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: know she was so happy. She was happy. She was
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: she was coming up, she had her own house, she
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: had just got done paint off her truck. She was
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: super excited the night before because she had got a
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: brown new TV and she was excited to watch it.
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: I can tell you, on th all my kids dad
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: passed away, that was the only person that was like
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: really there at two, three, four in the morning when
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: I needed to call her.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: For those of you that don't know, Christina met Caroline
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: when they were both teen moms, and I'd like to
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: point out Caroline thought so hard to keep her children
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and support her children. She had just gotten a home,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a house, no more apartments, just paid off her truck,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: just got a brand new TV for the children, and
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: was just so happy. That made her so happy. Christina,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: how did you meet Caroline?
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: I met her because she was dating my daughter's dad brother.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: We were sister in laws, and we were still sister
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: in laws up until they had split up a couple
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: months ago, and then we'd be like we just became
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: best of friends. She met me when my daughter was
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: born and she was there and she helped my daughter
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: when she first came out the hospital.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: How long have you known Caroline?
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I known her for nine years, nine years, five years.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: She was my sister in law.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Guys, you were seeing shots of this beautiful young mom,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Caroline leaving behind five children that day, Christina. Was she
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: with her children in that intersection? Was she alone?
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: I believe she was with her nephew, Christina.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I know the funeral for Caroline is Thursday. Will you
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: be there?
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Of course. I'm actually gonna take the personal time off
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: from work to intend it.
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: I am going to be there. I'm going to be
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: there to support everybody. I just want justice to be served.
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: And my friend, I know there's a lot of nasty
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: comments out there that people are saying and nobody really
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: knows the truthful story to it, and I get it,
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: and I just got to like let everybody know that.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: She was a great, loving person. She deserves her justice,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: not just her but her children. It's horrible showing.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Out to Sidney Sylvanni joining us Crime Stories investigative reporter,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that video of Caroline being stabbed was all over the internet.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: We're not showing it tonight, Sidney, in lieu of the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: actual stabbing where people I can't wait here. What doctor
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall has to say about this thought to video
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the stabbing and post it instead of calling nine to
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: one one. That's a whole other can of worms. But
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: in lieu of the video, Sidney Sylvannie, what happened.
• 12:59
  Speaker 6: Our understand is that Caroline was minding her own business.
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: She was driving around town. This is a very very
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: busy intersection. This is one of the main roads going
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: through Del Rio and she stopped at this intersection and
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: three young women are suddenly attacking her. She's surrounded. We
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: know the details from this video that she was surrounded,
• 13:26
  Speaker 6: but Caroline stood her ground and she wound up stabbed
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: in the back twice and stabbed in the side of
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: her abdomen once and two of those stabs again in
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: her back. And the videos that are now no longer
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: circulating that we are refusing to show on our show,
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: you can see the bloodstains coming through a pink shirt
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: that she was wearing during that attack. This was horrific,
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: and we have those videos because bystanders were watching and
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: taking photos in videos instead of calling nine to one one.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: This is early reminiscent of the stabbing death of a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: beautiful young woman on her way to work on a
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: light rail train in North Carolina. Arena, as she is known,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: minding her own business when the unknown to her comes
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: up behind her and stabs her dead. We again are
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: not showing the moment of impact, and the bystanders, instead
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: of helping Erna, choose to video the entire thing to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: add insult to injury. There's actually a chance her attacker
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: may walk. He is claiming that he is ineffective at
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: helping his lawyers, that he is incompetent to help them
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: at trial, and if he never becomes competent, he will
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: ultimately be released. That's the status of that case. Straight
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: out to doctor Bethany Marshall, joining us renowned psychoanalyst out
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: of the LA jurisdiction. She is the author of deal Breaker.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: You can see her now on Peacock and Bravo and
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Bethany also
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the star of a hit podcast On the Couch with
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany, just as you were seeing
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the video of Arena being stabbed on the light rail
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: in North Carolina, just minding her own business, working two jobs,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: thinking she was living the American dream. She was here
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: from Ukraine, leaving war torn Ukraine for a better life here,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and then was stabbed, just cold cold blooded, and people,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: instead of helping choose to take videos.
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: And you know, Nancy, she slumped to her side on
• 15:52
  Speaker 7: that seat in the train, and I watched the video.
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: People were just shuffling around. They shuffled off the train
• 15:58
  Speaker 7: rather than coming to her aid. Sadly, Nancy, the bystander effect,
• 16:03
  Speaker 7: and there's been research on this, is when somebody watches
• 16:06
  Speaker 7: a gruesome crime, they look around and they say, well,
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: there's twenty other people here, why should I take responsibility?
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: And so, in a catastrophic and kind of a perverted,
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: deranged way, they dissociate themselves from the victim and from responsibility.
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: And there's a way to break that, Nancy. The best
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: way to break the bystander effect, as Irunya Zarutska's observers
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: should have done, is to signal one other person out
• 16:34
  Speaker 7: of the crowd and to say come help me. Like that,
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: that lack of consciousness and responsibility can get broken in
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: that very simple way. But sadly, with our current victim, Nancy,
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: they just videotaped a mom collapsing.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany, I have put the car before
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the horse. I am focusing on the piece pople that
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: took the video, vultures. I want to focus on these
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: little harpies, these jackals, these hyenas, three young girls, including
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the quote smiling sisters. And you know, nobody would have
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: believed this if it were not from Michael Alessando. I'd
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: like to point out that Michael Alexando, who is an
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: independent journalist, is not the person that videotaped the actual
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: knife attack and put it online.
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: That is not him.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: He came upon the scene at the time of the arrest.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: And if it hadn't been from Michael Alexando and getting
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: this video, no one would believe the arrogance of these
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: two check it out sisters, Cookie and Kitty smiling at
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the camera, oh yeah, one back over the shoulder look
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: and then smiling at the camera as she's being driven
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: away and sticking her tongue out. I mean, nobody would
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: believe it. Dtor Bethny Marshall, but for Michael Elizondo quickly
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: getting this video. This is from good Citizen at YouTube
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. What about that doctor Bethany, the way they
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: played to the camera.
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: Sticking their tongue out like they're a rock star, like
• 18:22
  Speaker 7: they're Miley Cyrus or something like they're getting ready for
• 18:25
  Speaker 7: their close up. You know, my first thought when I
• 18:28
  Speaker 7: read about this crime, Nancy, besides feeling devastated for those
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: five children, two of whom have special needs, is that
• 18:37
  Speaker 7: these girls must have been envious towards the victim. Who
• 18:40
  Speaker 7: knows what that means or.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: How that played out.
• 18:42
  Speaker 7: There was some hidden relationship there that we're going to
• 18:46
  Speaker 7: learn about. And the hidden relationship might simply be that
• 18:50
  Speaker 7: these Bansheese as you called them, were lurkers on the
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: victims social media, watching how beautiful she is. Shed just
• 18:57
  Speaker 7: gotten her car, paid off, home, a TV for her children.
• 19:01
  Speaker 7: She was living the life. She was a beautiful, beautiful woman.
• 19:05
  Speaker 7: This is just a theory, but I'm going to bet
• 19:08
  Speaker 7: on the fact that this will have played a role
• 19:11
  Speaker 7: in some way, and this was their moment of glory,
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: their TikTok selfie moment when those handsome cops were walking
• 19:18
  Speaker 7: them towards the police car.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Sticking your tongue out for a photo or a selfie
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: is being playful or silly. It has kind of evolved
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: into a trendy selfie pose on platforms like TikTok and Insta. Playfulness, fun, flirting, teasing.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: That is the way it's typically interpreted. Michael Alesando joining
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: US independent journalists who recorded the footage of the sisters
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: smiling at their arrest flirting with the cops. Okay, Michael Alessando, again,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I just wanted you
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: to hear what Christina had to say and the gravity
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: of what occurred before you took this video. Could you describe, again,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Michael Elisondo, very slowly for us tonight, what you observed. Oh,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: there's miss hotpants with the shirt, the halter shirt, with
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the hands holding her breasts. Okay, not judging. I'm not
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the church lady. I don't care what she wears. I
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: do care about the smiling and the posing and the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: mugging and the sticking the tongue out. This Saint Insta ladies,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and you're headed to the big dollhouse. So let that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: so ken, Michael, What did you observe?
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: Okay, I didn't know what was going on. I didn't
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: have no knowledge of what happened. I just saw her
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: a smiting pantsune whatever. Then the costs put her in
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: a vehicle. Then I see the window go down and
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: in ordered her face. I go out the window, smiting,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: stegging out her tongue that nothing happened. Okay, what's going
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: on here? Why is she happy being arrested? That threw
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: me off. I didn't know about the stopping at all.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: Later that night, one morning, my family member gets a
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: phone call stating that that incident I went to wasn't
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: stopping and the vettim was my cousin and she talked away.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: And that hit me like a ton of bricks. And
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: now all they I can't wrap myself around it.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Even right now, I am so sorry. So you go
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: to this scene when you discover there's some sort of
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: a disturbance, You get there, you video these jackals, That's
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: all I can call them. They approach a thirty two
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: year old, gorgeous young mom of five, surround her. According
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: to witness accounts, she's unarmed, she's standing there in the crosswalk.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: You catch them being arrested. Let's take a look at that.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Another right oh there after window huh.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: To Renown, a veteran defense attorney joining US founder of
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: the law offices of Eric Fattus, the Eric Fattus. That's
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: not gonna help because Michael Alessandro's video that you just saw.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: When this goes to trial, it will come into evidence
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: because the jury can consider actions before, during, and after
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: the crime. And they will see miss thing shooting a
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: bird out the window, and they'll also hear her saying
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: thanks to Michael Elizondo, why are you feeling me? Stop? Stop,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: don't stop, and mugging for the camera and sticking out
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: her tongue in a playful gesture.
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: Yeah, NaN's a tragic set of circumstances here, not an
• 23:35
  Speaker 8: appropriate reaction, you know. I think our attorneys are going
• 23:38
  Speaker 8: to say, have you ever known a nineteen year old
• 23:40
  Speaker 8: to have an inappropriate reaction in a set of circumstances?
• 23:44
  Speaker 8: You know, have you heard of a concept nervous laughter
• 23:46
  Speaker 8: that that's something that people resort to when they don't
• 23:49
  Speaker 8: know what else to do. These are some very young
• 23:51
  Speaker 8: people here. I have no indication that they've been you know,
• 23:55
  Speaker 8: purped walk by police while being filmed. You hear them
• 23:58
  Speaker 8: say stop filming me. You talk about on social media
• 24:01
  Speaker 8: how people have certain reactions when they're being filmed and
• 24:04
  Speaker 8: selfies and things like that. Perhaps it was reflexive in
• 24:07
  Speaker 8: a sense, perhaps she didn't know what else to do
• 24:10
  Speaker 8: under these circumstances. Not the right choice, but you know
• 24:14
  Speaker 8: something that the DURI might be able to understand in
• 24:16
  Speaker 8: terms of her age and unfamiliarity with substituation.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to be in that courtroom when the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: defense attorney argues, have you ever known a nineteen year
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: old to act inappropriately? Inappropriate? Fattest, that's a tip of
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the iceberg, and they are showing no remorse at Oh.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I mean Chris mcdonne ad joining me, director at the
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective with over three hundred
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: homicide investigations under his belt. I found him on YouTube.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: He is the star of the interview room. McDonough. This
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: is like a romp for prosecutors Day to show that
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: kind of behavior and the fact that the mom Caroline
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: is stabbed in the bat Go on, girl, you just
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: keep shooting that bird, sticking your tongue out. We'll see
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: how the jury likes that. What about it?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: McDonough, Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, I mean, this is consequences are
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: an afterthought. You know, this is the this is an
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: ambush style attack of a mother. The questions are always
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: going to be for the investigators. You know, where the night,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: where did the knife come from?
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: You know?
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: And those are going to be type of premeditation questions
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: that they're going to try to put together. This is
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a thirty two year old mother of five children. She's
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: gone in a split second, broad daylight. Now her kids
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: are going to face life without her because of a
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: vicious attack that should never have ever happened. This wasn't
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: some dark alley at midnight. This was broad daylight on
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: a busy street in Del Rio, Texas, where every single
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: mother should feel safe.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: The mugging for.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: The camera, the sticking the tongue out, the shooting a bird,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the laughing, the preening and posturing. Wait, where's the other
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: one with the hands over her breasts on her shirt
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: like someone is grabbing her breast from behind. I want
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: to see that one too, Miss hotpants, there you go. Okay,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not much on fashion, but I know that's all wrong.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Let's have a reality check. Doctor Kendall Crown's joining us.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: He is the chief medical examiner in Tarrant County. That's
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: not easy to get to Tarrant County. Is Fort Worth, Texas.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Let's just say the Morgue is always busy. He is
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: and he is a star of a hit new podcast
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: made him in the reality check Doctor Kimda Crown's what
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: happened to this mother of five?
• 27:08
  Speaker 9: So she was stabbed twice in the back, once in
• 27:11
  Speaker 9: the side. The stab wounds to the back penetrated her
• 27:14
  Speaker 9: chest cavity and went into her lungs. This stab wound
• 27:18
  Speaker 9: on the side penetrated at abdominal cavity and it went
• 27:21
  Speaker 9: into her stomach. So let's first talk about the stomach wounds.
• 27:25
  Speaker 9: So if a knife hits the stomach, you're going to
• 27:28
  Speaker 9: get your stomach acids coming out into your abdominal cavity
• 27:32
  Speaker 9: and that's going to result in an infection and irritation
• 27:35
  Speaker 9: and that's called parrotnitis, and that over time can result
• 27:39
  Speaker 9: in your death. But it isn't something that happens right away.
• 27:42
  Speaker 9: It's very painful and it takes a long time to
• 27:45
  Speaker 9: dive from parrotidis. Now, the stabloinds to the lungs, on
• 27:48
  Speaker 9: the other hand, will collapse the lungs make it difficult
• 27:52
  Speaker 9: for the individual to breathe. If both lungs are hit,
• 27:54
  Speaker 9: it almost makes it impossible for them to breathe. But
• 27:57
  Speaker 9: either way, you're going to have bleeding into the chest cavity.
• 28:01
  Speaker 9: The hemorrhage of the chest cavity is going to fill
• 28:03
  Speaker 9: the chest cavity up with blood, Your lungs aren't going
• 28:06
  Speaker 9: to be able to expand, and you'll basically suffocate. She
• 28:09
  Speaker 9: didn't die right away. From reports, it sounds like she
• 28:12
  Speaker 9: dies several hours later. They tried to do surgery things
• 28:16
  Speaker 9: like that to save her, but she still ultimately died.
• 28:20
  Speaker 9: So the reasoning behind that is initially the injuries could
• 28:23
  Speaker 9: have caused a drop in blood pressure from the loss
• 28:26
  Speaker 9: of blood, causing her brain not to get enough oxygen,
• 28:30
  Speaker 9: resulting in her brain already being dead. It just took
• 28:33
  Speaker 9: her a little while longer for her body to die
• 28:36
  Speaker 9: as well. So this is a really rough case because
• 28:40
  Speaker 9: she didn't die right away. She's just laying there bleeding
• 28:43
  Speaker 9: out from two stab wounds to her chest and one
• 28:46
  Speaker 9: to her abdomen, and ultimately she dies from the sharp
• 28:49
  Speaker 9: force injuries.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: But it took a while.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns. You stated that it took a while.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: What that means to me is she have lain there
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: on the asphalt, probably knowing she was dying. Do you
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: believe the human brain can continue to have coherent thoughts?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Could she have been thinking about her children, Who's going
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: to take care of them, What's going to happen to them?
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Does your brain still work as you're bleeding out?
• 29:25
  Speaker 9: Yes, Since her brain isn't compromised, there's no information that
• 29:29
  Speaker 9: she was beat into unconsciousness, she would be able to
• 29:33
  Speaker 9: have a thought process during that time period of anything,
• 29:36
  Speaker 9: including her children. Most mothers would think of their children
• 29:39
  Speaker 9: as their last thoughts. Also, you have to remember, in
• 29:42
  Speaker 9: the hot Texas sun, the asphalt's probably one hundred and
• 29:45
  Speaker 9: twenty degrees as well, So she's not only bleeding out,
• 29:48
  Speaker 9: but she's being burned by laying on the sidewalk. So
• 29:51
  Speaker 9: her last thoughts are probably who knows what they are,
• 29:54
  Speaker 9: But my bet would be she's probably thinking about who's
• 29:57
  Speaker 9: going to take care of my children? And then she
• 30:00
  Speaker 9: passes away.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: All of these claims are just that claims in an
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: arrest warrant. These three are presumed innocent as of tonight.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: These three banshees as I have referred to them hyenas
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: jackals are more concerned about how they're gonna look in
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Michael Alessandro's video. I don't understand it, Dr Bethany Marshall.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: These two are focused on how they're gonna look in
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Michael Alessandro's video and pouting and primping for their mugshots.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Caroline is dead. She's got five children without a mother,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: and could you touch on their special needs for two
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: of them that are autistic.
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: And Nancy, Let's start with the children, because they're the
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: most important. Children who are autistic, they need socialization at
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: critical learning periods. The youngest one, a little girl, is
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: only three years old. That's a primary time in an
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: autistic child's life where they need face to face engagement
• 31:12
  Speaker 7: with the mother. They need floor time, floor play, they
• 31:16
  Speaker 7: need to be able to manipulate blocks and toys and
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: things like that as a form of engagement with people
• 31:23
  Speaker 7: around them. And you think of an autistic child who
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: has a difficult time tracking with the thoughts and emotions
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: of the others, so Caroline would be the one to
• 31:33
  Speaker 7: help them with that. And then you see these adult girls,
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: adult women, who, like you said, are like banshees, hyenas.
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: This is their moment of greatness. Nancy. I see I
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: hear arrogance like with Shrilla or I see arrogance, the
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: trout pout, the tongue sticking out. It's like they have
• 31:54
  Speaker 7: fantasies of greatness, brilliance, beauty and being at this center
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: of things. They are triumphing over the victim. Nancy. I
• 32:04
  Speaker 7: think probably what happened, we're going to learn that Caroline
• 32:08
  Speaker 7: was somebody that they envied, and now they're trying to
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: direct all the attention towards themselves. You know what, They're
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: not going to get the attention they want when they're
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: behind bars. Is just not going to be the same.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Chris McDonough joining us are the interview room on YouTube. Chris,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: what do you make of the fact that she was
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: stabbed in the back.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: You know, that just goes to show us how violent
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: this situation was. And the fact that, you know, when
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: you see the sisters, you know, smiling after their arrest,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: and that has rightfully so outraged the public. These are
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: the faces of alleged killers who shows zero remorse right
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: after taking the mother from her five children, and the
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: stabbing of the back in the back in that type
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: of target that is specific to this thought process of
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: they just don't care, and when mothers aren't safe in
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: the middle of the day, no one is.
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: Who do it?
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: The limit.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: You were seeing Caroline taking a video off her new
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: TV that she got for her children. Let's see that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: again on mute please. That's Caroline and her youngest daughter.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: They're celebrating that they finally got a TV, a nice
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: big one, and all the children are happy. Then you
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: see her on a merry go round with her children,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: going around and around, laughing, smiling. It's all gone and
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: they're just videos now. Eric Fattus, they'll never have her back.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: What is any possible defense Fadest. You've won a lot
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: of cases. Where would you go as a defense attorney.
• 34:31
  Speaker 8: A transic loss, Nancy? From defense perspective, You've got to
• 34:34
  Speaker 8: explore every possible defensive avenue here. Look, I don't think
• 34:38
  Speaker 8: this happened just spur of the moment, spontaneously, without any escalation,
• 34:42
  Speaker 8: without any backdrop, without any story behind it, that there
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: were interactions that happened leading up to this. On top
• 34:50
  Speaker 8: of that, you know the Keandra Foz, the twenty one
• 34:53
  Speaker 8: year old co defendant, does tell police that the alleged
• 34:56
  Speaker 8: victim arrived trying to start a fight. You know, we're
• 34:59
  Speaker 8: still learning all all of the facts about this, but
• 35:01
  Speaker 8: I think there are stories here that have not yet
• 35:04
  Speaker 8: been told. Do those stories resonate somewhere in the world
• 35:08
  Speaker 8: of self defense, of defense of others, of heat of passion.
• 35:12
  Speaker 8: I think there are a lot of things that are
• 35:13
  Speaker 8: on the table as the facts continue to inferral in
• 35:16
  Speaker 8: this case.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: And had a feeling that's where you were going. But
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: isn't it true? Sidney Silvanni, Crime Story's investigative reporter. They
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the three defendants show up with a knife. She Caroline,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the victim is unarmed. Isn't that true? Absolutely?
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: And why the need to carry a knife, a large
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: enough knife to create devastating injuries? A pocket knife is
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: one thing, something like this that took this mom of five.
• 35:44
  Speaker 8: From this world.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like an accident. Search your heart if
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you can. Here is the information for the GoFundMe support
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: for Caroline Pinia's children. This will cover hopefully their expenses
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: and likely expenses for her funeral. And as we go
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to air tonight, these three are innocent, presumed innocent under
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: the law. Presumed innocent unless and until the state pierces
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: that presumption with evidence proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: brutal attack, daytime broad daylight attack of Caroline, please call
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Delrio PD, Texas eight three zero seven seven four two
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: seven one one repeat eight three zero seven seven four
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: two seven one one. We remember American hero Sergeant Kirby Kennedy,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: San Angelo, PD, Texas, just forty four, killed in the
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: line of duty after twenty years, leaving behind his wife
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Georgiana and three children, Caitlin, Emily, and Jackie. American hero
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Corby Kennedy. Thank you to our guest, but especially
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: good night friend,