Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 727: Foundations - How Many Deer Are There, Really?

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Ep. 727: Foundations - How Many Deer Are There, Really? · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: which is brought to you by First Light. I'm your host,
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Tony Peterson, and this episode is all about deer densities.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Something occurred to me recently while recording an episode of
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt with the trout bum himself. As Mark
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: told the story of hitting his target buck this year,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I realized that he sees more dear on one Michigan
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: sit than I see in an entire season in northern Wisconsin.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: His stories go something like, at first I saw a buck,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: and then four doughs, and then a buck in another buck,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: and then six more bucks plus some doze, while my
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: stories go well, I saw one squirrel and then probably
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the same squirrel, and then two sits later, the loneliest
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: dough in all the land briefly emerged from the swamp
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Shrek style to take a look around Mark's very easy,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: privileged hunting, when contrasted with my extremely difficult workingman's hunting,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: made me realize we don't talk about deer densities enough,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: but they are so important to strategy, and this is
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: what I'm going to talk about right now and next week.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: So buckle up. Did you know that your vision runs
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: one hundred milliseconds behind what's actually happening in the world.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: It doesn't take much time for light to bounce off
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: an object so you can see it, and then your
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: eye has to send a signal to your brain so
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: it can decide what it's looking at. But it does
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: take a little bit of time. Do you remember that
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: short lived fad about the dress that was either gold
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: or blue? On the internet, like in twenty fifteen. Randomly
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: something like that pops up and it divides people because
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: some see one color, some see a different color. But
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: how can that be? How can address that is blue
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: appear gold to us or vice versa, or let's take
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: it a step further. Neuroscientists have studied how much our
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: brains fill in the blanks with what we perceive to
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: be reality, and they've studied how we as individuals have
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: unconscious bias, which means we are totally unaware of it.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: They've done studies with people who were tasked with watching
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: videos of civilians interacting with law enforcement, where they were
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: instructed to either focus on the civilian or the police
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: officer depending on their backgrounds and interactions with law enforcement.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: The perceptions of the interactions on video varied wildly, yet
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: they all watched the same video. Our brains work hard
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: to mold and shape reality to fit our prior experiences.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: We make up our minds to fit the reality that
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: we are most comfortable with. Take chronic wasting disease CWD
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: for example. If you want something that hits close to
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: home with a lot of us anyway, this is a
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: good topic. There are a lot of people who have
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: their minds made up with CWD, but most of the
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: staunch opinions aren't really rooted in reality because there's a
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: lot we don't know, a lot that just isn't backed
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: up by data on both sides. So we draw our
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: own lines in the sand, fill in the blanks. I'd
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: bet you'd be more willing to take the thread of
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: CWD more seriously if you had had positive interactions with
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Game and Fish employees, or had a generally positive view
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: of the agency. Now, if you have a negative view
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason, I bet there's generally more of a
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: chance that you think that it's just bullshit built in
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: around CWD. There are two different perceptions of reality around
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: this issue, and we really don't know yet which one
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: is right. What is far more likely is that the
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: truth is going to be some type of hybrid reality
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: between the two. Or take another hot topic, wolves. I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: had a conversation with a fellow at the gym earlier
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: this year who couldn't blame our Minnesota DNR enough for
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: the prevalence of wolves and how disastrous they have been
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: to the Northern Minnesota deer heerd. He also didn't understand
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: anything about the Endangered Species Act, or federal activist judges
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: working out at Washington, DC, or the sheer complexity of
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: the legal system as it transcends federal and state levels
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: and involves a species like wolves. His thought was that
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: the DNR wanted wolves to replace hunters, and that was that. Now.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the agency that relies heavily on
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: the license sales from deer hunters would cut its own
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: throat by conspiring to proliferate an apex predator across the land,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: a predator I'm pretty confident has never bought a hunting
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: license ever. A part of the reason these issues suck
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: to think about and deal with is because even though
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: our tendency is to see them in black and white
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: because that's easy, they are far from simple issues. Society
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: is plagued by complex issues. If you talk to young
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: folks these days, wealth inequality is a big one. Their
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: take on it is quite a bit different from how
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: many in my parents' boomer generation feel about it. Things
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: get even weirder when we see a couple of the biggest,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: most outspoken billionaires working on my favorite subject, which is
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: going into space, or they see Bill Gates on TV
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: trying to guess the price of some simple grocery and
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: home goods item. Did you know that Bill Gates did
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: this one time on I think it was The Ellen
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: DeGeneres Show, and he thought a bag of Totino's pizza
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: rolls cost twenty two dollars. Let that sink in and
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: tell me if he isn't experiencing a different reality from you.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Where the perception of reality gets real weird. We let
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: what others believe about life bleed into our world and
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: sometimes shape how we proceed with our actions. This happens
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: in hunting all the time. Trust me, if you think
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: there isn't a difference and the opportunities presented to you
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: versus I don't know some of the hunting industry people,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: you're off your rocker there, Betty Crocker from media hunts
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: and outfitters, trading hunts for exposure to people who just
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: have badass places to hunt that want to associate with
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: big names. The world is kind of like Candyland for
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of hunting industry folks. Now, naturally, some of
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: them do things the hard way. Some of them also
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: built their own empires and they hunt their own ground,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: which is pretty cool, But the reality there is still
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: not something you're going to experience. Let me try to
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: explain this in a way that's something like we should
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: all be able to relate to. We are all aware
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: of the concept of deer density. In some places, the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: general deer density might be forty or sixty or more
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: dear per square mile. In other places that might be
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: closer to ten or fewer deer. You might hunt the
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: up of Michigan and see a handful of deer all
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: season in southern Michigan, you might average a dozen or
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: more sightings per sit. You might watch the big names
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: on the outdoor channel passing up one forties left and
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: right to wait for a giant. They can do this
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: because not only do they have an extremely high deer
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: density to work with, that deer density is flush with
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: prime age bucks. There are properties in Iowa that might
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: have more mature bucks on them than some counties have
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: in other parts of the country. Okay, that might be
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: a slight exaggeration, but I bet it's somewhat true. Pretty close. Now,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: imagine if every TV host had to tell you how
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: many deer they saw on every set they showed, or
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: you know, every Instagram post about a day buck. Would
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: you still believe some of those folks were the best
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: hunters alive? If you heard them say once again that
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: they saw seventy six deer in their food plot on
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: some random night in October, how hard would you think
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: it would be to hold out for one hundred and
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: eighty inch deer If you knew that you could at
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: any given point in the season kill one hundred and
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: fifty or one hundred and sixty inch or in a
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: few days time. Their reality is different from yours, which
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I know is obvious, but I don't think some people
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: understand the gap. Part of this is because we are
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: hardwired to make things sound more difficult, and I do
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: this too. Take the buck I shot a couple weeks
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: ago in Wisconsin. The hunting there is tougher for me
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: than anywhere else I hunt. That's just due to the
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: deer density being really low. Now you know, the predator
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: one hundred density is high too, which doesn't help, but
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: that just contributes to the deer density. It's just a
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: different beast than a lot of places, but it's also
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: very similar to a lot of places, such as the
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: nature the big Woods. Now, on that hunt, I hunted
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: all day for three days, and I saw a do
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Then a buck that looked like someone took the body
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: of a horse and married it to the rack of
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: a coups deer came running in and stiffed my decoy.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I killed him, and it was wonderful. I also want
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: you and everyone else who listens to know how hard
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: it is to hunt over there, because that makes me
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: look better. The truth is it's it is a difficult
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: place to hunt, but I also love it. I don't
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: not enjoy hunting over there, even if I know I'm
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: only going to see very few deer and am very
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: unlikely to see a big one. It just is what
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: it is. There really isn't a reason to try to
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: make it sound worse than it is besides ego, and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: we have our biases and that colors our perception of reality.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: But reality isn't really up for negotiation. It just is
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: what it is. This is the case with deer densities,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: and I don't think we fully understand how much this
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: affects our season. Just think about the com confidence you'd
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: have if you knew when you went hunting that you'd
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: always see deer, and a lot of them. And when
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: you see a lot of deer, there are almost always
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: a few good bucks mixed in at some point. Would
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: that change your view on getting up at o dark
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: thirty again? I know it does for me. It's a
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: hell of a lot easier to go hunting and stay
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: in the game when you know it's going to be
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: a freaking blast. Or look at it this way. Over
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: in Wisconsin, my daughters and eye hunted parts of twenty
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: days before we saw a single dough Literally we saw
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: a few bucks, but we averaged one deer sighting per weekend.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: The last time I drew in Iowa Tag, I hunted
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: public land and saw twenty six deer on my first
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: full day of hunting. In the beginning of October, I
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: saw fourteen deer on my first morning hunt there, including
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: six bucks ranging from one hundred to one hundred and
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: seventy inches. In which situation would you be able to
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: rally and keep getting up and ready to go When
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: we believe we are going to have fun. It's so
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: much easier to go than when we believe you're not
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: going to see anything. This is reflected in the harvest
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: data that is coming out from some of the general
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: firearm seasons that just wrapped up in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: The numbers are low compared to last season. The obvious
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: culprit is the warmer than average weather we had, but
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: the less obvious culprit is that the perception of hunting
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: in warm weather does bad things to hunters. It convinces
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: them to put in less effort, which is the exact
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: opposite way to approach a difficult hunt. Hunters believe the
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: reality of their hunt will be low deer movement because
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: of the weather. They then hunt with less enthusiasm, and
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: suddenly we're in like a manifest destiny situation. All right,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: So where am I going with this? Well? A lot
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: of directions actually, But for right now, I want you
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: to be honest about the deer density and the properties
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: you hunt. I don't care if you live in Michigan
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: or Louisiana wherever, and you think you have the hardest
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: hunting ever, I want you to think about the properties
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: you hunt. Don't break it down by stay or region
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: or something else that can color your bias. Go to
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: the individual properties. How many deer live there or use
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: them somewhat consistently. This is the basis for a lot
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: of the decisions you'll make throughout the season, so it's
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: important to be honest. Trail cameras and in person observations
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: are huge for this because they show us two things,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the deer we can confidently say live on or around
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: our properties, and the deer that might use them somewhat
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: but aren't regulars. Of course, this doesn't take into account
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: shifting home ranges or what factors can change deer densities.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: But I'm not going to get into that this week.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: That's topic for a podcast that's coming up. For now,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: just try to be honest about how many deer you
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: really have access to. If you're in a low deer
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: density world, then you have to be very careful with
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: all of the deer you might encounter. If you hunt
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: where the deer are thickest thieves, your concerns are different.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Both circumstances come with unique challenge, but you can't get
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: into those until you think about what you have to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: work with overall, and you have to be willing to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: be wrong. This past winter looked like it was a
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: really rough one on the deer in my world, at
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: least some of the places I hunt. We had wet,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: heavy snow at some really inopportune times, and I thought
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: going into spring that the northern deer herds were going
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: to be decimated. A random conversation with a forester convinced
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: me that I was probably wrong. He said that the
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: amount of treetops that suddenly became accessible to the deer
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: helped the herd out a lot, which makes sense, and
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: my springtime observation seems to show that I had overestimated
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the severity of the winter kill. But By August, I
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: was less sure I won property I own. I had
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: a handful of little bucks, two dos, and one decent
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: deer on camera. I saw several of those deer in
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: person as well. When I was scouting. I never got
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: a picture of a dough with a fawn all summer
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: or fall, nor did I see I didn't have a
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: bunch of new deer show up. And the more I
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: scouted other public properties in that area and ran cameras
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: on a few of the private areas I hunt, I
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: realized that I couldn't find a fawn to save my life,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and I could barely find a dough. My reality there
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: shifted multiple times, and it ended up forcing me to
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: hunt my highest odd spots for all days sins while
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: lowering my standards to whatever buck might come in. I
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: also left my dough tags at home because there was
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: no reason for me to kill a few baby makers
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: when there just weren't that many around. So I started
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: out in the preseason with a plan based around a
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: certain deer density that I expected to have to work with,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: but by opening day I had to alter that strategy,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and by the rut, my entire perception of the hunt
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and how I had to go about. It had changed
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: completely and this was all tied to the amount of
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: deer that were available to me, which wasn't very many.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: So what does this have to do with your hunting everything?
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Should you be rattling NonStop during the run if you
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: have one mature buck per section to work with and
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: totally horrible buck to dough ratio? Probably not, despite the
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: fact that a lot of people who have better places
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to hunt will swear by that tactic. Or should you
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: kam a cozi your way right into a prime betting
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: area with questionable wind to shoot a big one when
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: you know that you have a high deer density and
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: you'll be spooking non target deer all day long with
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: that move. Or think about in season scouting. If you
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: hunt where the winners are mild and the ag is plentiful,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: you know there's deer everywhere. How much damage versus benefit
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: will you get from in season scouting every acre to
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: find the exact spot to kill a big one. Now
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: take that same scenario and put it in a low
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: density woods and it's kind of the only game in
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: town to get around any deer. Pay attention because this
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: is important. What is a good dial or strategy for
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: someone else might be a total disaster for you. This
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: will hinge on a lot of things like personal skill
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: level and a real deep understanding of the strategy, But
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the risk reward ratio of these things is heavily dependent
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: on the quantity and quality of deer you have to
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: work with. I'll frame this up another way. Do you
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: know who the most annoying elk hunter in the West is?
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: It's the guy who hunts an over the counter unit
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: on public land and thinks that the only thing he
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: has to do is walk ridgelines of bugling his head
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: off all day long. His idea is that the more
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: ground he covers, the more likely he is to run
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: across a bowl that will respond accordingly. The problem is
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that the bulls that live in those places have had
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: so many negative interactions after checking out a strange bugle,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: the odds of a bull giving his location in response,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: or better yet, coming in while bugling are low. In
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a place where a high density and limited pressure this
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: move will net you response is like crazy. It won't
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: spook elk probably and will instead convince enough of them
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: to come in or bugle back that it seems like
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: the best strategy ever, and it is if you're on
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the Deseret Ranch in Utah and you have a twenty
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars ELK tag in your pocket. But if you're
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: in and over the counter unit in Colorado, it's almost
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: guaranteed to fail every time, and worse work against you.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: You might be thinking that this has more to do
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: with pressure than game density, and you're right, sort of.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: With fewer animals, the mistakes are compounded because the opportunities
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: are lessened with each screw up. The margin for error
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: just isn't in your favor. So think about the density
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: you're working with on your home ground or the place
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: you love to travel, to be honest about it, and
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: think about how you'll take an even better census next year.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And then come back next week because I'm going to
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: talk about all all kinds of strategies for hunting low
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: deer densities, and then the week after I'll probably touch
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: on that high deer density thing. But should listen in
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: because there's a lot to consider just when you're working
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: around the amount of deer that might be available to you.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: That's it for this week. I'm Tony Peterson. This has
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: been the wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, which is brought
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: to you by first Light. As always, thank you so
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: much for your support, for listening, for reading the articles.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: For whatever you're doing in this media world, we really
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: really appreciate it. If you want more content, you know
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: where to go, the medeater dot com. You can check
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: out all kinds of stuff there. Maybe pick up the
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: new board game of Meat Eater Trivia if you want
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: to play that over the holidays or something. Lots of
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: good stuff there at the medeater dot com.