Latest / UK Column Radio / UK Column News Podcast 5th February 2025

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UK Column News Podcast 5th February 2025 · UK Column Radio

0:08
Speaker 1: Good afternoon. It's Wednesday, the fifth of February twenty twenty five,
0:11
Speaker 1: just after one o'clock. Well, welcome to UK col News.
0:13
Speaker 1: I'm your host Mike Robinson joining me in the studio
0:15
Speaker 1: today Charles Mallett. Welcome to the program. Charles, Thank you Mike.
0:18
Speaker 1: And by a video link we have Vanessa Billy. Now
0:21
Speaker 1: we're going to get started today Charles with Lucy Ledbe.
0:25
Speaker 2: We are This follows Bryand's report or from Monday's News,
0:29
Speaker 2: which if you've not yet seen, I would really encourage
0:31
Speaker 2: you to do so, in which he focused on the
0:34
Speaker 2: expert evidence provided for the prosecution by Dr Dowie Evans.
0:39
Speaker 3: Now.
0:39
Speaker 2: Yesterday in London, David Davis chaired a press conference which
0:44
Speaker 2: was to present the findings of an international expert panel
0:49
Speaker 2: that was convened by Dr Shu Lee.
0:52
Speaker 4: Now.
0:52
Speaker 2: The panel included fourteen ne natologists who were not known
0:56
Speaker 2: to one another. They examined all the evidence two at
1:00
Speaker 2: a time, so there was no in effect notes of
1:03
Speaker 2: compromise to the system. Now, in order to give an
1:07
Speaker 2: idea that the backdrop to this and the establishment bias
1:12
Speaker 2: in the conviction of Lucy let Be, I'm going to
1:15
Speaker 2: share a short clip from Good Morning Britain yesterday when
1:18
Speaker 2: the barrister for the defense, Mark McDonald KC, was invited
1:23
Speaker 2: to speak about the press conference that was going to
1:26
Speaker 2: be happening in the afternoon.
1:30
Speaker 5: In relation to what they say took place to these
1:32
Speaker 5: babies is wholly unreliable?
1:34
Speaker 6: Is it the case that the prosecution in the case
1:40
Speaker 6: relied on a report that was written a number of
1:44
Speaker 6: years ago maya ne natal expert that that expert says
1:49
Speaker 6: was misinterpreted.
1:54
Speaker 5: We're referring to the prosecution expert. He wasn't a neonatologist,
1:59
Speaker 5: he was a pediatrician. And no, I'm not talk to
2:01
Speaker 5: Shoe Lee's I'm sorry I've misunderstood your question. Yes, you're right.
2:07
Speaker 5: Dr Shulee had written a paper some thirty years previously
2:11
Speaker 5: in relation to air embolism and how you can identify
2:15
Speaker 5: the air embolism is there.
2:16
Speaker 6: In a bridge we've seen as the cause of death
2:18
Speaker 6: in these.
2:19
Speaker 5: Bases, and he has said publicly they totally misused his research,
2:25
Speaker 5: and in fact he's done a full literature review now
2:28
Speaker 5: and said that what was presented before the jury in
2:31
Speaker 5: relation to a particular symptom.
2:32
Speaker 7: Was wrong, and he's appearing with you today.
2:37
Speaker 1: Yes, no, he so.
2:38
Speaker 5: What he has done is he has contacted fourteen leading
2:43
Speaker 5: the anatologists across the world in Tokyo, Sweden, Germany, Harvard.
2:49
Speaker 5: He's put them all together and they have looked and
2:52
Speaker 5: assessed everything and come up with because.
2:54
Speaker 7: Very quickly, because we need to move on. But you
2:58
Speaker 7: have a reputable barrister Davis, very reputable member of parliament.
3:03
Speaker 7: There is online huge conspiracies now of people who say
3:07
Speaker 7: this is all an establishment cover up. Does that help
3:12
Speaker 7: or damage your cause? All of that.
3:15
Speaker 5: I take absolutely no notice. My focus is ensuring that
3:21
Speaker 5: the evidence that I have now gathered goes before a
3:23
Speaker 5: court or goes before the Criminal Cases Review Commission, and
3:27
Speaker 5: if they feel that the conviction is unsafe overturning this conviction,
3:30
Speaker 5: that the noise on the outside, I'm afraid is just noise.
3:34
Speaker 5: I focus on the conviction.
3:35
Speaker 1: Thank you.
3:38
Speaker 2: So basically amazing bias there of the mainstream media, absolutely
3:42
Speaker 2: insistent that there has to be a baby killer for
3:45
Speaker 2: this story to work. Of course, the female presenter, they're
3:50
Speaker 2: very keen to suggest that a nineteen eighty nine paper
3:52
Speaker 2: should be considered out of date or at least by
3:55
Speaker 2: inference ed bulls. They're making a very crass attempt to
3:59
Speaker 2: lay a sort of trap insofar as conspiracy theory is concerned.
4:03
Speaker 2: Obviously well battered away by Mark McDonald. Now, this case
4:08
Speaker 2: was brought to Shoe Lee's attention in the first place
4:10
Speaker 2: because he was led to believe that a conviction was
4:13
Speaker 2: secured on a misuse of what was being described as evidence.
4:17
Speaker 2: And this is why the process or the ball started rolling.
4:21
Speaker 2: This was concerned with the specifics of skin discoloration and
4:26
Speaker 2: air embolism. Now, the critical difference with regard to this
4:30
Speaker 2: case is between the differences in effect of either arterial
4:34
Speaker 2: or venyal air embolism. And this is work that he
4:38
Speaker 2: updated in December twenty twenty four, which would mean that
4:42
Speaker 2: based on the evidence that's convicted Lucy let Be at
4:46
Speaker 2: the moment would mean that it was to make medical history,
4:50
Speaker 2: because they would be the first recorded instances in which
4:52
Speaker 2: this kind of discolouration has taken effect in that fashion. Now,
4:58
Speaker 2: the panel has worked pro bono for the defense that
5:00
Speaker 2: the findings were going to be released no matter what,
5:03
Speaker 2: and they had accessed to all the medical records and
5:06
Speaker 2: the evidence, and as the chair of the panel, doctor
5:10
Speaker 2: Lee has issued the following instructions to the expert panel.
5:15
Speaker 2: They were to review the records and determine the cause
5:17
Speaker 2: of death or injury. They were to review and comment
5:20
Speaker 2: on the expert witness statements and opinions. They were to
5:23
Speaker 2: issue an independent report about the causes of death or injury.
5:26
Speaker 2: And the panel, as I say, was of fourteen who
5:29
Speaker 2: were not known to each other, one of whom is
5:31
Speaker 2: remaining anonymous, and they were not previously familiar with the case,
5:34
Speaker 2: which courses a critical detail to it. Now as part
5:37
Speaker 2: of the conclusive summary that was given out the press conference,
5:41
Speaker 2: this is Shoe Lee speaking about the background and in
5:44
Speaker 2: particular the medical context within which these deaths were set.
5:51
Speaker 3: So just a.
5:52
Speaker 8: Summarize all the findings that we had in terms of
5:56
Speaker 8: the medical problems that we are seeing at this hospital.
6:00
Speaker 8: That the medical histories were incomplete, there was a failure
6:04
Speaker 8: to consider the obstetric history. There was disregard for surveillance
6:08
Speaker 8: warnings about bacterial colonization. There was the misdiagnosis of diseases
6:13
Speaker 8: in these babies. They were caring for babies that were
6:17
Speaker 8: probably beyond their expected ability or designated level of care.
6:22
Speaker 8: They were unsafe delays in diagnosis and treatment of acutely
6:26
Speaker 8: ill patients. There were poor skills at resuscitation and intubation.
6:31
Speaker 8: There was poor supervision of junior doctors in procedures like intubation.
6:35
Speaker 8: There were poor skills in basic medical procedures like insertion
6:38
Speaker 8: of chesstubes. There was lack of understanding about basic things
6:43
Speaker 8: like respiratory physiology and how to mechanically ventilate the baby.
6:47
Speaker 8: There was poor management of common neuronytal conditions like hypoglycemia.
6:52
Speaker 8: There was a lack of knowledge about commonly used equipment
6:55
Speaker 8: in the NICU like NeoPath and keepnograd. There was failure
6:58
Speaker 8: to protect infant who were at risk for example hemophilia
7:02
Speaker 8: from a trauma during intubation. There was a lack of
7:06
Speaker 8: teamwork and trust between the health professions. There were also
7:12
Speaker 8: statements given by many witnesses which point to serious resources
7:16
Speaker 8: and infrastructure deficiencies and these specific concerns that were expressed
7:20
Speaker 8: by individuals include inadequate numbers of appropriately trained personnel in
7:25
Speaker 8: the unit, the lack of training for assigned nursing roles,
7:29
Speaker 8: inadequate staffing and workload overload, poor plumbing and drainage resulting
7:34
Speaker 8: in the need for intensive cleaning in the unit.
7:39
Speaker 2: Now, he went on, but that gives you an idea
7:41
Speaker 2: of many, many failings that provide the backdrop to this situation. Now,
7:45
Speaker 2: the reason this is significant is because all of this
7:48
Speaker 2: was ignored during the investigation, especially by the pediatric expert
7:53
Speaker 2: witness for the prosecution, the man I've mentioned before, and
7:56
Speaker 2: the Brian spoke about at length on Monday. Dr Dorry
7:59
Speaker 2: Evans referred to eventually in the press conference by virtual
8:04
Speaker 2: of the fact that he was asked a direct question
8:05
Speaker 2: about it, surely summarized the conclusions as well. First of all, sorry,
8:12
Speaker 2: before we deal with dow evdence, we go to the
8:16
Speaker 2: conclusions of the panel as summarized by the reports, and
8:19
Speaker 2: here here is Shuley speaking about those.
8:24
Speaker 8: Our conclusions of this panel, therefore, was that there was
8:28
Speaker 8: no medical evidence to support mouth seasons causing death or
8:33
Speaker 8: injury in any of the seventeen cases in the trial. Now,
8:37
Speaker 8: I've only presented you seven of the cases, seven of
8:40
Speaker 8: the fourteen official convictions, but the others are similar. It's
8:43
Speaker 8: just nuances, changes of a variation in the details right
8:48
Speaker 8: death or injury of all the effect that infants were
8:52
Speaker 8: due either to natural causes or.
8:54
Speaker 3: To errors in medical care.
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Speaker 8: There were serious problems related to medical care or patients
9:00
Speaker 8: at this hospital. There were problems related to teamwork an
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Speaker 8: interdistionary collaboration at the Countess of Chester New Needle Unit.
9:12
Speaker 8: In summary, Ladies and gentlemen, we did not find any murders.
9:16
Speaker 8: In all cases death or injury were due to natural
9:20
Speaker 8: causes or just bad medical care.
9:25
Speaker 1: That's quite a stimid. It absolutely is.
9:27
Speaker 2: I mean it is seismic, not just with regard to
9:31
Speaker 2: this specific case, but the ripples or perhaps bigger waves
9:35
Speaker 2: that this should cause. Now he gets to the thunderbenth question,
9:39
Speaker 2: which is not did Lucy let Be commit murder? But
9:43
Speaker 2: was there any intentional foul play at all? Seemingly a
9:47
Speaker 2: question that has not been considered at any point to date. Now,
9:52
Speaker 2: as I said that, there were then questions from the press,
9:54
Speaker 2: the first of which came from John Sweeney, and he
9:58
Speaker 2: was aiming to set the content with regard to this
10:01
Speaker 2: expert evidence given by Dowie Evans, and his question was
10:05
Speaker 2: how many publications has Dowie Evans published on this exact
10:10
Speaker 2: subject versus those of Sholey and the rest of the
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Speaker 2: expert panel. The answer is that Dowie Evans has produced
10:16
Speaker 2: zero documents, zero publications on this subject, whereas Sholey himself
10:22
Speaker 2: has produced over four hundred and of course many more.
10:25
Speaker 2: From the panel, the BBC, not surprisingly, we're attempting to
10:29
Speaker 2: steer the discussion back to the circumstantial evidence, which, as
10:33
Speaker 2: Mark McDonald correctly asserted, is of course totally meaningless if
10:37
Speaker 2: the medical and statistical evidence doesn't stack up, and he
10:41
Speaker 2: said that it can all be easily explained. So that
10:45
Speaker 2: was dismissed in a fairly straightforward manner, which took the
10:48
Speaker 2: focus back to Dowie Evans, upon whose reports the prosecution
10:53
Speaker 2: managed to secure the original conviction, which of course has
10:56
Speaker 2: been upheld in appeal twice. Now, specifically, the comment made
11:04
Speaker 2: by Shu Lee about the failings of the witness or
11:10
Speaker 2: the evidence, the expert evidence given by given by Darry Evans,
11:15
Speaker 2: is shown in a video now.
11:20
Speaker 3: With doctor Evans.
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Speaker 8: I don't know him either, and you tell me that
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Speaker 8: he hasn't published anything.
11:25
Speaker 3: If you look at this panel.
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Speaker 8: There's probably about five hundred percent years of experience with
11:31
Speaker 8: all these people. These are the heads of units of
11:33
Speaker 8: the top institutions in the world, so I would trust
11:37
Speaker 8: their judgment. When it comes to doctor Evans's testimony and
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Speaker 8: his opinions, I would ask you to ask three questions.
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Speaker 8: First of all, the first question would be, if our
11:48
Speaker 8: panel found so many problems with the medical care provided
11:52
Speaker 8: by this team at this hospital, how is it that
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Speaker 8: doctor Evidence found none, Because in none of the seventeen
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Speaker 8: cases he even identified one one problem with the medical
12:02
Speaker 8: care provided at the hospital. The second question that I
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Speaker 8: would ask is this, he seemed to be the rather
12:07
Speaker 8: selective in his use of information. So if he wasn't selective,
12:13
Speaker 8: if all the information was used in fact, you would
12:15
Speaker 8: come to a very different conclusion than what he came to.
12:18
Speaker 8: Just take for example, the case of the hypoglycemia, where
12:20
Speaker 8: he said there was no sugar for two hours and
12:22
Speaker 8: the blood sugar drows, therefore it must be insulin. In fact,
12:26
Speaker 8: he missed the one important le value, which was the
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Speaker 8: eleven forty six, showing that the blood sugar in fact.
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Speaker 3: Did not rise. So was he just callous or was
12:35
Speaker 3: it deliberate? The next question that I would ask is.
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Speaker 8: Even when there's an obvious cause of death, why did
12:42
Speaker 8: he go around looking for malfeasans?
12:44
Speaker 3: So I would ask you to ask these three questions
12:47
Speaker 3: and ask.
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Speaker 8: The Avans that if you can answer those three questions,
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Speaker 8: I think you have the answer to.
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Speaker 3: Your fat.
12:53
Speaker 2: Extremely dambing, and although Shuley's pains to point out what
12:58
Speaker 2: Darry Evans did not look at, it's equally pertinent to
13:01
Speaker 2: consider what he did look at. And he's given a
13:03
Speaker 2: very revealing interview to John Sweeney, who I've just mentioned
13:07
Speaker 2: the interview went out before well, sorry, the interview was
13:09
Speaker 2: recorded before the press conference. It doesn't include his comment
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Speaker 2: on it. But the point is that Evans very revealingly
13:15
Speaker 2: says that his investigations take into consideration what, how, who
13:20
Speaker 2: and why, and as far as the criminal investigation goes,
13:23
Speaker 2: quite what business pediatrician has in trying to determine the
13:26
Speaker 2: who and the why is something that deserves a lot
13:29
Speaker 2: of scrutiny that it has not had. For example, he
13:32
Speaker 2: was given access to the shift pattern of Lucy Letbie,
13:35
Speaker 2: but why. He insists that the coroner was wrong. He
13:38
Speaker 2: insists that the statisticians were wrong. He insists that the
13:42
Speaker 2: natannutologists were wrong and didn't understand what they were doing,
13:46
Speaker 2: and just keep out of it. It turns out also
13:49
Speaker 2: in this interview that he absolutely does not understand what
13:52
Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence means, and that there is still no direct
13:57
Speaker 2: evidence of murder, let alone murder by Lucy Letby. He
14:02
Speaker 2: also attempts to argue it both ways. He talks about
14:04
Speaker 2: the coroner not picking up on what he describes as
14:07
Speaker 2: a statistical anomaly in that the Countess of Chester Hospital
14:10
Speaker 2: was producing more neonatal deaths than it should have been,
14:14
Speaker 2: and then in the next breath he goes on to
14:17
Speaker 2: talk about the national statistics on the neonatal wards, which
14:22
Speaker 2: he dismisses completely. And of course this is where we
14:24
Speaker 2: go to the Third Wall inquiry, which is just wrapping
14:26
Speaker 2: up at the moment, and we look at the focus
14:30
Speaker 2: on first of all, on murder of babies and not deaths.
14:33
Speaker 2: It compromises the scope of the inquiry completely, further confirmation bias.
14:38
Speaker 2: But of note here is the testimony of doctor sorry
14:42
Speaker 2: Sir David Spiegelhalter, emeritus Professor of Statistics at Cambridge University,
14:47
Speaker 2: and he said that the mortality rate in twenty fifteen
14:49
Speaker 2: and twenty sixteen was only ten percent higher than average
14:51
Speaker 2: for neonatal units with similar birth rates. He said the
14:54
Speaker 2: Countess of Chester was highest in its tier of centers,
14:57
Speaker 2: but only just and therefore one would not call it
14:59
Speaker 2: an outline. So he again is disagreeing with Dowie Evans.
15:03
Speaker 2: So this one has to wonder really whether the inquiry,
15:07
Speaker 2: which is wrapping up now due to present its findings
15:09
Speaker 2: in the autumn, is going to be eclipped by the
15:11
Speaker 2: findings of shoe Lee and his panel. So it seems
15:15
Speaker 2: very much the case, as Brian was intimating on Monday,
15:18
Speaker 2: that Evans has inveigled himself in this case from the start.
15:21
Speaker 2: It's also very relevant that he was not licensed between
15:24
Speaker 2: the years twenty fourteen and twenty nineteen and this should
15:27
Speaker 2: on its own merit have precluded him and made his
15:31
Speaker 2: reports inadmissible. He took ten minutes just to decide that
15:36
Speaker 2: murder was the basis of these deaths. He's seemingly obsessed
15:42
Speaker 2: with the fact that there is a baby killer and
15:45
Speaker 2: is also very keen to put forward his track record
15:47
Speaker 2: of securing convictions for the prosecution. And it's quite clear
15:52
Speaker 2: that the police should have involved neonutologists and pathologists well
15:55
Speaker 2: before this went anywhere near the Crime Prosecution Service now.
15:58
Speaker 2: David Davis also was to point out the Criminal Evidence
16:01
Speaker 2: Bill from twenty eleven, which was put forward by the
16:04
Speaker 2: Law Commission, was rejected by the Ministry of Justice in
16:06
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, which could have avoided all this because, of
16:09
Speaker 2: course it was specifically dealing with what may or may
16:11
Speaker 2: not constitute expert evidence. So the next step is to
16:15
Speaker 2: go to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. Mac donald remains
16:19
Speaker 2: optimistic that that can be sped up, although it is
16:21
Speaker 2: known to take up to ten years to be something
16:23
Speaker 2: to be referred back to the Court of Appeal, but
16:26
Speaker 2: all the materials prepared. Davis summarized really by saying that,
16:31
Speaker 2: in addition to it being an enormous miscarriage of justice,
16:34
Speaker 2: it's a failure of the NHS when asked to mark
16:36
Speaker 2: its own homework. And of course, with it being such
16:39
Speaker 2: a highly emotive subject, eyes are now on how the
16:42
Speaker 2: story may be exploited from here, whether or not it
16:45
Speaker 2: gets overturned. So conveniently for the NHS now, having Lucy
16:49
Speaker 2: Letbea as a scapegoat enables them to shift the focus
16:54
Speaker 2: about all sorts of things, not least by submitting an
16:58
Speaker 2: apparent apology for the situation surrounding the killer Valdo Calacaine,
17:03
Speaker 2: who was meant to be medicated but then wasn't so
17:06
Speaker 2: the timing of that seems very coincidental. This could be
17:09
Speaker 2: a further push for juryalist trials, as though the jurists
17:12
Speaker 2: do not understand these sorts of things. Also, whether there's
17:16
Speaker 2: a suggestion that AI might be used in future in
17:18
Speaker 2: order to process large amounts of data and take out
17:21
Speaker 2: what might be described as emotion or bias, or of
17:24
Speaker 2: course the focus could shift to the NHS and the
17:26
Speaker 2: pharmaceutical industry. Why were babies being born in such a
17:29
Speaker 2: vulnerable condition in the first place, and how was that
17:32
Speaker 2: being managed? How is that being managed? So all of
17:34
Speaker 2: this supports the hypothesis that this appears to have been
17:37
Speaker 2: reverse engineered, taking the point of view that there was
17:40
Speaker 2: a murderer and how would he or she be found?
17:44
Speaker 2: But what I would encourage you to do is to
17:46
Speaker 2: listen to the interview that John Sweeney did conduct in
17:49
Speaker 2: order to get a sense of the self centeredness and
17:52
Speaker 2: the bias of Dr Dowie Evans. Now the UK column,
17:56
Speaker 2: of course, will follow the process of the criminal case
17:59
Speaker 2: Review and with equal importance, how this story is wielded
18:05
Speaker 2: to reform both the Criminal Justice Service and the NHS
18:08
Speaker 2: to name it too, you know, it's an enormous amount
18:10
Speaker 2: of material which I've covered, so my apologies for squeezing
18:13
Speaker 2: in into that period of time. Then we be much
18:16
Speaker 2: more of this on extra.
18:18
Speaker 1: Thank you, Charles. Now let's go to international affairs then
18:22
Speaker 1: and will Trump and Gaza and well, is this a
18:26
Speaker 1: kleptocracy in action? It certainly begins to look that way.
18:29
Speaker 1: So Benjamin Yahoo has been in the elisted since yesterday
18:32
Speaker 1: and he remains unarrested. So we can take note of that.
18:37
Speaker 1: Many people were dreading what was likely to be announced
18:40
Speaker 1: once here and Trump met, although that was what was
18:44
Speaker 1: announced in the press conference should have come to no
18:45
Speaker 1: surprises anybody who was watching Vanessa Billi's report from last
18:49
Speaker 1: Wednesday's program. What was perhaps a surprise to some was
18:53
Speaker 1: the announcement that the United States would just steal the
18:55
Speaker 1: Gaza Strip. Let's listen to a few seconds of what
18:59
Speaker 1: he had to say.
19:01
Speaker 9: The US will take over the Gaza Strip and we
19:04
Speaker 9: will do a job with it too. We'll own it
19:07
Speaker 9: and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded
19:11
Speaker 9: bombs and other weapons on the site.
19:14
Speaker 1: Level the site and get rid of.
19:16
Speaker 9: The destroyed buildings, level it out, create an economic development
19:20
Speaker 9: that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for
19:26
Speaker 9: the people of the area. Go a real job, do
19:29
Speaker 9: something different. Just can't go back. If you go back,
19:32
Speaker 9: it's going to end up the same way it has
19:33
Speaker 9: for a hundred years.
19:37
Speaker 1: So he's very careful, very careful there. Not to say
19:39
Speaker 1: for the Palestinians, it's for the people of the area.
19:43
Speaker 1: So the question is, you know, what is he talking about.
19:47
Speaker 1: He's talking about ownership here. He's just a nin perhaps
19:50
Speaker 1: the replacement of the United States Republic with the United
19:53
Speaker 1: States keptocracy. So this is what he had to say.
19:56
Speaker 1: I also strongly believe that the Gaza strip and especially
19:59
Speaker 1: those live there, and frankly, who's been now that's these
20:03
Speaker 1: are his words, who's been really very unlucky. It's been
20:06
Speaker 1: very unlucky. It's been an unlucky place for a long time.
20:10
Speaker 1: He said, they're living under fall on concrete. That's very dangerous,
20:14
Speaker 1: very precarious. They instead can occupy all of a beautiful
20:18
Speaker 1: area with homes and safety, and they can live out
20:20
Speaker 1: their lives in peace and harmony instead of having to
20:23
Speaker 1: go back to do it again. And I thought the
20:25
Speaker 1: Charles that that was a really spectacular comment that they
20:28
Speaker 1: can live out their lives. It's it's I mean, what
20:31
Speaker 1: is he saying here?
20:31
Speaker 2: Well, it sounded very final for the people involved in
20:35
Speaker 2: that sentence that I must say was absolutely the peace
20:37
Speaker 2: that jumped out to me when I was listening to it.
20:40
Speaker 2: It sounds as though they are to be the last
20:42
Speaker 2: generation of Palestinian Gazans. I mean, it's it's extraordinary.
20:48
Speaker 1: Yes, Netnaho're clearly very happy with all this. This is
20:52
Speaker 1: what he had to say. I mentioned again our three goals,
20:55
Speaker 1: and the third goal is to make sure that Gaza
20:57
Speaker 1: never poses a threat to Israel again. President Trump is
21:01
Speaker 1: taking it to a much higher level. So I suppose
21:05
Speaker 1: the question is what's going to happen with Jordan and Egypt.
21:09
Speaker 1: Are they going to wear this? And is this action
21:13
Speaker 1: in fact completely destabilizing for the region. We'll be talking
21:17
Speaker 1: a much more about this an extra but Trump made
21:20
Speaker 1: it very clear that Jordan at least has absolutely no choice.
21:26
Speaker 4: Presidents and the King of Jordan have both said that
21:28
Speaker 4: they won't take in displaced people from Gaza like you suggested.
21:33
Speaker 3: Is there anything you can do to make them do that?
21:35
Speaker 3: I mean tariffs against those countries.
21:37
Speaker 1: For example, they will do it. They will do it.
21:43
Speaker 3: What makes you say that they're.
21:44
Speaker 1: Going to do it? Okay, we do a lot for them,
21:47
Speaker 1: and they're going to do it.
21:50
Speaker 10: Now.
21:51
Speaker 1: As to say, we will be talking a bit more
21:52
Speaker 1: about this on extra But Vanessa, let me welcome you
21:54
Speaker 1: to the program and get your thoughts on this. No
21:57
Speaker 1: surprise in one sense, but pretty shocking and another, well.
22:01
Speaker 11: Not really, because you know, Trump was always expected to
22:04
Speaker 11: come in and, let's say, be the economic hitman. Biden
22:10
Speaker 11: was the bomber in the genocideair and Trump is going
22:14
Speaker 11: to come in as the economic hitman. So we're heading
22:16
Speaker 11: towards Natanyahu's dystopian vision of Gaza being a free trade zone,
22:21
Speaker 11: Palestinians being in much smaller concentration camps as slave labor,
22:26
Speaker 11: and exploitation of Palestinian gas and reserves in the occupied
22:32
Speaker 11: territories and off the Garzen coast. And of course, the
22:36
Speaker 11: bully boy tactic towards Jordan and Egypt has been going
22:39
Speaker 11: on for many years. They've already been threatened with instability
22:44
Speaker 11: should they refuse to accept Palestinian refugees. Those talk now
22:50
Speaker 11: potentially of Syria making the Palestinians inside Syria Syrian nationals,
22:55
Speaker 11: which of course strips them of their Palestinian nationality and
23:00
Speaker 11: their right to return. So with what we're seeing is
23:03
Speaker 11: all part of the plan to finally ethnically cleanse all
23:07
Speaker 11: of the Palestinian territories.
23:10
Speaker 1: Absolutely, as I said, we're talking more about that an
23:13
Speaker 1: extra but in the meantime, perhaps we've got some parallels
23:17
Speaker 1: between how Trump is beginning to run his regime and
23:21
Speaker 1: the regime that has installed itself in Syria.
23:24
Speaker 11: Yeah, well, absolutely trust the BBC to come out with
23:28
Speaker 11: this extraordinary headline. Ahma del Shada. Of course al Jolani
23:33
Speaker 11: as we know him, named Syria's transitional president. So I
23:38
Speaker 11: mean this basically avoids saying unelected, not chosen by the people,
23:44
Speaker 11: and they go on in their article to of course
23:46
Speaker 11: not condemn anything that HTS are designated terrorist organization organization
23:53
Speaker 11: is doing inside Syria. So if we go to the article,
23:56
Speaker 11: we can see what they actually say in it. So
24:03
Speaker 11: they're talking about rebel Military commander Hassan abdul Ghani announced
24:09
Speaker 11: the cancellation of Syria's twenty twelve constitution and the dissolution
24:13
Speaker 11: of the former regime's parliament, army and security agencies. According
24:18
Speaker 11: to the Syrian Arab News agency. So basically they've just
24:22
Speaker 11: erased Syrian history, made Giorlani president and if and then sorry,
24:32
Speaker 11: then there was in the last forty eight hours there
24:34
Speaker 11: was an interview done by the economist in Damascus with Jilani,
24:40
Speaker 11: and I have to say it was one of the
24:42
Speaker 11: more challenging interviews for Jiulani. And if we have a
24:45
Speaker 11: look at a couple of the questions that were actually asked.
24:49
Speaker 11: So they talk about wanting to establish re established diplomatic
24:52
Speaker 11: relations with America, but right now HTS is listed as
24:56
Speaker 11: a terrorist group by the United Nations, so of course
25:00
Speaker 11: what is Joe Lani's response. Therefore, there is an item
25:03
Speaker 11: to dissolve all factions of the Syrian Revolution, including HTS.
25:07
Speaker 11: Hence the classification has become meaningless. So their terrorist activities
25:12
Speaker 11: gets completely erased by the rebranding, or rather the disappearance
25:17
Speaker 11: of HTS from the political scene in Syria. I mean,
25:21
Speaker 11: this is a strong message to all other US UK
25:24
Speaker 11: Western terrorist assets that it's very easy to wriggle out
25:28
Speaker 11: of their terrorist prescription in any of these countries. So
25:32
Speaker 11: then they're talking about Israel. Could you imagine normalizing relations
25:36
Speaker 11: with Israel.
25:38
Speaker 10: This is very interesting.
25:39
Speaker 11: Here we come into the kind of tony blur wriggle
25:42
Speaker 11: out of answering a question. So he goes into great
25:47
Speaker 11: lengths about you know that it's all terribly difficult and complicated.
25:50
Speaker 11: It's all the fault of the former government led by
25:54
Speaker 11: the two president asads. We entered Damascus only two months
25:58
Speaker 11: ago and there are many priorities in front of us.
26:01
Speaker 11: So clearly a priority was not to prevent Israel further
26:04
Speaker 11: occupying Syrian territory and bombing the Syrian military infrastructure into
26:11
Speaker 11: total obliteration.
26:13
Speaker 10: And he bangs on also with a.
26:15
Speaker 11: Lot of procedures and laws in order to discuss it,
26:17
Speaker 11: and to be honest, we've not considered it yet, so
26:20
Speaker 11: that says very clearly. And then finally they mentioned the
26:24
Speaker 11: fact that elections have effectively been delayed for four years.
26:28
Speaker 11: And as I said, he's named himself president having dissolved
26:31
Speaker 11: all of the institutions in Syria that could have been
26:36
Speaker 11: any kind of obstacle to his presidency.
26:38
Speaker 10: No elections.
26:40
Speaker 11: So he then talks about the fact that, well, you know,
26:42
Speaker 11: we have to take Syrians in the diaspora into account.
26:46
Speaker 11: We have to give them time to be registered and
26:50
Speaker 11: to return to the country.
26:51
Speaker 10: And so on.
26:53
Speaker 11: Therefore, this process needs time, and I've asked the experts
26:56
Speaker 11: and I would recommend that replace experts with I six
27:00
Speaker 11: and Tony Blair and his entourage, and they said we
27:05
Speaker 11: need at least three to four years to complete the process. Meanwhile,
27:08
Speaker 11: we're developing the election law, the constitution and the laws
27:12
Speaker 11: that will regulate the country. We are working on them
27:14
Speaker 11: thoroughly and in consultation with the experts again and the
27:18
Speaker 11: United Nations as well. Hence, when these things are already,
27:22
Speaker 11: we will have the elections that have integrity. So clearly
27:25
Speaker 11: the current non elections don't have integrity. And then moving
27:30
Speaker 11: on to this is in from the Foundation for the
27:34
Speaker 11: Defense of Democracy and this was from the sorry the
27:39
Speaker 11: commentator of mud shah Awawe. And if we actually see
27:43
Speaker 11: what he points out, he goes quite strongly against Jolani
27:47
Speaker 11: the Shian nepotism, because the majority of the Syrian military
27:52
Speaker 11: now is not only HTS but also foreign mercenaries that
27:56
Speaker 11: were fighting under the banner of HTS. But as he
28:00
Speaker 11: points out, which again could be considered quite comical, but
28:03
Speaker 11: of course it isn't in the context of what's happening
28:05
Speaker 11: in Syria. Al Shaal's relatives hold key posts as well.
28:10
Speaker 11: His brother Maher is Minister of Health, kurd Taipa Badawi,
28:13
Speaker 11: a relative of his third wife, is head of General
28:16
Speaker 11: Customs Administration abdur Rahm, and Salame, brother of his fourth wife,
28:21
Speaker 11: serves as head of the Presidential Palace. So we have
28:24
Speaker 11: a clear idea where this is heading. And then on
28:28
Speaker 11: x somebody responded to me saying that this is a
28:31
Speaker 11: brilliant strategy, but he will also have to dissolve himself
28:34
Speaker 11: to avoid, of course, his own terrorist designation by the
28:38
Speaker 11: United States Department. And as I pointed out, well, he
28:41
Speaker 11: has already done that because he's no longer al Jlani,
28:44
Speaker 11: he's now Ahmed Ala, so he's clearly managed that one
28:49
Speaker 11: as well. And I just wanted Piers Robinson, who's a
28:52
Speaker 11: regular contributor to UK column, sent me this video last night,
28:56
Speaker 11: which is Richard deer Love, former director of m addressing
29:02
Speaker 11: Russie the Royal United Services Institute Defense and Security Tank
29:07
Speaker 11: back in twenty fourteen talking about the impacts of terrorism,
29:12
Speaker 11: and rather chillingly, he said this.
29:17
Speaker 4: The second Saudi incident predates nine to eleven and comes
29:21
Speaker 4: from a conversation with Prince Bandar Now, I believe at
29:26
Speaker 4: the moment the titular head of the GID in Saudi Arabia, and.
29:32
Speaker 3: That was.
29:34
Speaker 4: The time is not far off, Richard, in the Middle
29:36
Speaker 4: East when it will be literally, God help the Shia,
29:41
Speaker 4: more than a billion Sunnies have simply had enough of them.
29:44
Speaker 4: And that was a chilling comment which I remember very well.
29:49
Speaker 3: Indeed, bear in.
29:52
Speaker 11: Mind, of course, that is exactly what is happening right
29:56
Speaker 11: now in Syria with the ethnic cleansing of the minorities
29:59
Speaker 11: which include Shia, Allowite and Christian. And as if you
30:04
Speaker 11: didn't think Tony Blair was enough, Mike, you and I
30:07
Speaker 11: were talking about Alistair Cumble in relation to Tony Blair
30:10
Speaker 11: being involved with the new.
30:13
Speaker 10: Syrian Foreign Minister at Davos.
30:16
Speaker 11: But guess what, Alistair Campbell and Rory I'm not with Mi,
30:20
Speaker 11: I six Stewart are currently in Damascus to carry out
30:24
Speaker 11: an interview with Joe Lanni.
30:28
Speaker 10: So not only did they spin.
30:31
Speaker 11: A former terrorist Tony Blair, I guess he's an ongoing terrorist,
30:35
Speaker 11: but here they are now to basically do the.
30:37
Speaker 10: Spin for Giulani. So the circle is complete.
30:42
Speaker 1: It is indeed Thank you for that, Vanessa. I mean,
30:45
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts, Charles on these two going over
30:48
Speaker 1: and interviewing Gilani.
30:50
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it is the sort of completion of
30:53
Speaker 2: the entire laundering process. I've just noted down sub section
30:59
Speaker 2: five of Section one of the Terrorism Act two thousand,
31:03
Speaker 2: which I think should have both Campbell and Stuart subject
31:07
Speaker 2: to an investigation because the Terrorism Act specifically says that
31:12
Speaker 2: action taken for the purposes of terrorism includes a reference
31:16
Speaker 2: to action taken for the benefit of a prescribed organization. Well,
31:22
Speaker 2: if what they're doing is not for the benefit of
31:25
Speaker 2: a prescribed organization, then I really don't know what is.
31:28
Speaker 1: And we have to remember that. Jelani can say, well,
31:32
Speaker 1: this is a mood point because it's ts is in
31:34
Speaker 1: the process of being dissolved. It has not been dissolved
31:37
Speaker 1: as yet. Absolutely he has not. He's still the same person,
31:41
Speaker 1: whether he tries to change his name or not. So
31:44
Speaker 1: these two clients have in fact committed an offense.
31:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's simple.
31:50
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, thank you very much for that. Let's move on.
31:54
Speaker 1: If you like what the UKKNT does and you'd like
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Speaker 1: the various content on the website. Now date for your
32:44
Speaker 1: Darry Another reminder Saturday in the fifth of April twenty
32:46
Speaker 1: twenty five and Cheltenham UK Column is back on location.
32:51
Speaker 1: We'll be announcing tickets and speakers very very soon, but
32:56
Speaker 1: please keep that date for your Darry. Anything any thought.
33:00
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's going to be amazing, be there,
33:03
Speaker 2: be there. That's it, absolutely absolutely.
33:06
Speaker 1: Yesterday the interview that went out was Debbie Evans with
33:10
Speaker 1: Sandy Adams and Roger Meecock talking about farmers, food supplies
33:15
Speaker 1: and so on and the bigger agenda. Do have a
33:18
Speaker 1: look at that. It's not posted on the UK Column website.
33:21
Speaker 1: And the interview tomorrow Charles is with you and Sir Julian.
33:25
Speaker 2: Rose, which will dubbed out well with the previous interview.
33:28
Speaker 2: Of course, Julian known to the UK Column and imbued
33:32
Speaker 2: with as much experience and inspiration as any interviewee. He's
33:38
Speaker 2: going to be talking about the continued assault on food
33:41
Speaker 2: and the food industry and particularly human health, but also,
33:45
Speaker 2: as I say, inspirational. He always has a way out
33:48
Speaker 2: of it and he has been there and done that,
33:50
Speaker 2: so he really does know of what he speaks. So
33:53
Speaker 2: definitely tune in tomorrow at one o'clock.
33:56
Speaker 1: Okay. A reminder of the public. Child Protection will an
34:00
Speaker 1: annual conference happening on the twenty second of February twenty
34:03
Speaker 1: twenty five. Range of speakers there including Rebecca Manning, doctor
34:07
Speaker 1: Anna Ludfi, Paul Diamond KC and a host of others.
34:11
Speaker 1: David Curtains in there as well. This is an important
34:14
Speaker 1: event if you can possibly get along to it, if
34:16
Speaker 1: you're in that neck of the woods, please do so
34:18
Speaker 1: and support Commission Wood. We have to remember that Kim
34:22
Speaker 1: was one of the most popular speakers at the last
34:25
Speaker 1: UK Column on Location event in October. Her presentation went
34:29
Speaker 1: dying very well because she is an activist that's actually
34:33
Speaker 1: doing stuff. So please go and support her and her
34:37
Speaker 1: team if you possibly can. And a reminder that also
34:41
Speaker 1: on the twenty second of February, if you're in Scotland,
34:43
Speaker 1: Scottish People's COVID nineteen in Quarry is taking place at
34:47
Speaker 1: Larston Hall in Edinburgh. Doctor Claire Craig, Richard Inos, Diane
34:52
Speaker 1: Rasmuson Macatti others speaking at that doctor Liz Evans as well.
34:56
Speaker 1: Get along to that if you possibly can. Vanessa, let's
35:01
Speaker 1: come back to you then and bring us up to
35:03
Speaker 1: date with what is going on in Lebanon.
35:07
Speaker 10: Yeah.
35:07
Speaker 11: Well, I was very lucky to be able to go
35:10
Speaker 11: to the south of Lebanon and went to several of
35:14
Speaker 11: the towns that unfortunately are written in Arabic on the
35:17
Speaker 11: map supplied, the areas in red show where Israel has
35:21
Speaker 11: still not withdrawn from they should have withdrawn of course
35:25
Speaker 11: on the twenty sixth of last month. They've now extended
35:29
Speaker 11: that until the eighteenth and then negotiating with the United
35:32
Speaker 11: States effectively to remain in certain points which I'll come
35:38
Speaker 11: on to. So, as I said on Monday, I managed
35:41
Speaker 11: to get to some of the towns affected, one of
35:45
Speaker 11: which was hi Am. This was just one of the
35:47
Speaker 11: photos that I took from there, just to demonstrate the
35:51
Speaker 11: leveling of houses and the destruction left behind by the
35:55
Speaker 11: Zionist occupation. And even though they are not legally still
36:00
Speaker 11: able to be there, they are there.
36:02
Speaker 10: And this next video.
36:04
Speaker 11: Which was released by the IOF shows what they're currently
36:09
Speaker 11: up to. So they're basically detonating houses in the various
36:15
Speaker 11: towns and villages in the countryside where they still are operating.
36:20
Speaker 11: And in fact, even when we were trying to get
36:23
Speaker 11: to Hiam, we narrowly missed taking a road which would
36:26
Speaker 11: have led us to IOF forces that are still as
36:30
Speaker 11: I said, in occupation of territory surrounding Chiam in the
36:35
Speaker 11: south of Lebanon, and just one of the photos showing
36:40
Speaker 11: the destruction and devastation left behind by the Zionis forces
36:44
Speaker 11: even when they've gone. So this is a town called
36:47
Speaker 11: it Shap. You can see the before and after pictures
36:50
Speaker 11: which show very clearly what Israel has done. And then
36:55
Speaker 11: if we look at the next map, which shows the
36:58
Speaker 11: areas that Israel wants to maintain occupation. As you can see,
37:03
Speaker 11: they're all high areas one, two, three or five hills
37:08
Speaker 11: in southern Lebanon. And I've also included the red dot,
37:12
Speaker 11: which is Mount Hermon on Syrian territory, which Israel occupied
37:18
Speaker 11: since the eighth of December last year when HTS carried
37:22
Speaker 11: out the multinational coup against the Syrian government.
37:26
Speaker 10: And it's very clear this.
37:27
Speaker 11: Is what they're negotiating with the United States and President Trump,
37:31
Speaker 11: that they can maintain a presence in these high areas
37:35
Speaker 11: two in their view, protect the northern settlements in the
37:40
Speaker 11: occupied territories. But of course it also means that they
37:42
Speaker 11: can surround and surveil the areas I won't even say
37:47
Speaker 11: occupied by Hesbela, occupied by the Southern Lebanese.
37:54
Speaker 1: For Edessa. What's Lebanon doing about this? So they are
37:58
Speaker 1: they complaining about Israel's continue occupation of these areas? Really
38:01
Speaker 1: just silent?
38:03
Speaker 11: No, I mean it's you know, Lebanon is an incredibly
38:07
Speaker 11: complex situation. It is effectively, let's say, controlled and influenced
38:13
Speaker 11: by the United States. You've seen the size of the
38:16
Speaker 11: US embassy. We've shown that in previous reports more than
38:19
Speaker 11: five thousand embassy staff operating there, which is crazy and
38:25
Speaker 11: US influences government policy, even though there is the process
38:30
Speaker 11: of electing a government within or under the presidency of Owen,
38:35
Speaker 11: who was elected president a few weeks ago. The Lebanese
38:39
Speaker 11: Army is responsible for effectively retaking the area is still
38:45
Speaker 11: occupied by the Zionis forces. UNIFIL is there. Both of
38:49
Speaker 11: those entities are effectively pretty much helping the Israelis rather
38:55
Speaker 11: than putting any obstacles in their way, other than, of course,
39:00
Speaker 11: putting reports into the UN which are only going to
39:03
Speaker 11: disappear into the black hole of the US influence. The
39:07
Speaker 11: people of the South have been extremely courageous in every
39:12
Speaker 11: weekend they returned to their houses despite the fact that
39:15
Speaker 11: I think more than thirty six have been killed by
39:19
Speaker 11: the Zionis forces that tried to prevent them from getting
39:21
Speaker 11: back to their homes. And these are civilians, they're not
39:24
Speaker 11: military in any way, shape or form.
39:28
Speaker 1: Thank you, Vanessa, thank you for that. Let's move on
39:31
Speaker 1: to cancer now. A couple of weeks ago, following Trump's inauguration,
39:37
Speaker 1: he announced operations target in which he was talking about
39:40
Speaker 1: the building of new AI data centers in Texas. But
39:45
Speaker 1: the main selling point, if you remember, was personalized medicine
39:49
Speaker 1: to cure cancer based on mRNA vaccines. Let's remind ourselves
39:53
Speaker 1: what Larry Ellison had to say about this. This was
39:56
Speaker 1: on the twenty first of last month. I think.
40:00
Speaker 12: Once we gene sequence, once we gene sequence that cancer tumor,
40:06
Speaker 12: you can then vaccinate the person, design a vaccine for
40:11
Speaker 12: every individual person to vaccinate them against that cancer, and
40:16
Speaker 12: you can make that vaccine, that mRNA vaccine. You can
40:22
Speaker 12: make that robotically again using AI, in about forty eight hours.
40:26
Speaker 12: So imagine early cancer detection, the development of a cancer
40:30
Speaker 12: vaccine for the for your particular cancer aimed at you,
40:34
Speaker 12: and have have that vaccine available in forty eight hours.
40:37
Speaker 12: This is the promise of AI and the promise of
40:39
Speaker 12: the future.
40:42
Speaker 1: So Trump's announcement done. That comment from Larry Elson came
40:46
Speaker 1: hot on the heels of exactly the same announcement for
40:48
Speaker 1: kar Starmer. So kar Starmer the week before had announced
40:51
Speaker 1: your data centers in the UK, AI data centers on
40:55
Speaker 1: the basis of generating personalized medicine for or procuring cancer
41:01
Speaker 1: that was specifically what they were claiming at the time. Well,
41:05
Speaker 1: today the MHRA has launched a consultation, the results of
41:12
Speaker 1: which will enable these gene therapies to be brought to market.
41:16
Speaker 1: So this is what they had to say. The Medicine
41:18
Speaker 1: and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency has today launched a consultation
41:22
Speaker 1: on regulatory guidance for individualized mRNA cancer immune therapies, colloquially
41:27
Speaker 1: referred to as cancer vaccines. This is an attempt at
41:32
Speaker 1: an important step, sorry, to bring these promising therapies closer
41:36
Speaker 1: to clinical practice. The eight week consultation was launched today
41:40
Speaker 1: and we'll launch sorry, we'll run until the thirty first
41:43
Speaker 1: of March twenty twenty five. The MHRA is asking all stakeholders,
41:46
Speaker 1: including developers of these medicines, to provide comments, after which
41:50
Speaker 1: the guidance will be updated. The UK regulator also welcomes
41:53
Speaker 1: comments from members of the public, including people affected by cancer. Now.
41:59
Speaker 1: June Ray then had this to say, so she said,
42:03
Speaker 1: as an enabling regulator, this is my emphasis. By the way,
42:07
Speaker 1: we do not wish to keep patients waiting unnecessarily for
42:09
Speaker 1: important new medicines such as personalized immunotherapies.
42:14
Speaker 2: What do you think, well, you know, it's got to
42:17
Speaker 2: the point really where one one is why they bother
42:19
Speaker 2: with the charade at all? I mean, what do they
42:20
Speaker 2: just stick everything out there and give no announceance whatsoever.
42:25
Speaker 2: But now, I mean the sort of the revolving door,
42:27
Speaker 2: or take one drug in order that you can take another,
42:30
Speaker 2: and you know one has to ask question. Well Flarry
42:33
Speaker 2: Andison saying we'll cut one up for you in forty
42:35
Speaker 2: eight hours, presumed you have to have another one sort
42:37
Speaker 2: of forty eight hours after that, and then another one
42:39
Speaker 2: and another one. I mean that seems to be the
42:41
Speaker 2: direction of travel on all these things.
42:43
Speaker 1: Well, maybe we should introduce the two most recent articles
42:46
Speaker 1: by doctor and Mike Williams on the UK column website.
42:50
Speaker 1: This one, COVID Vaccines and New Mechanisms of Serious path
42:53
Speaker 1: of Pathology, was published today and previously COVID Vaccination and Cancer.
43:01
Speaker 1: In the latest article, he is demonstrating from the medical
43:04
Speaker 1: literature that it doesn't matter how healthy you are, how
43:07
Speaker 1: clean the area is, or how good your food is
43:10
Speaker 1: if mRNA vaccines are being delivered to people and keep
43:14
Speaker 1: those people in a state of well, there's some technical
43:17
Speaker 1: terms in there, such as I'm going to apologize if
43:21
Speaker 1: I completely mess up the pronunciation of this, by the way,
43:23
Speaker 1: but glued to THEOM depletion and UPR and so on,
43:27
Speaker 1: you need to read the articles to get the definitions
43:29
Speaker 1: of these. Then our defenses against cancer, ner degenerative diseases,
43:34
Speaker 1: cardiovascular diseases and so on are pretty much gone. So
43:39
Speaker 1: you know, this is an important part of the jigsaw here,
43:42
Speaker 1: and I suspect that we should perhaps be submitting these
43:46
Speaker 1: articles to the MHRA consultation, but be very very keen
43:50
Speaker 1: to see many many more qualified people and members of
43:54
Speaker 1: the public getting involved in that consultation as well. We'll
43:57
Speaker 1: have the details of that in the show notes. If
44:00
Speaker 1: you go to the UK column website and looking forward
44:02
Speaker 1: today's UK columns, you'll find that link and do take
44:06
Speaker 1: part if you possibly can.
44:07
Speaker 2: Any more thoughts, well, just you know, the continued push
44:13
Speaker 2: to avoid in any way tackling any of the issues
44:17
Speaker 2: that might be causing people to suspect that they might
44:21
Speaker 2: even have cancer in the first place, The relentless push
44:24
Speaker 2: for testing for absolutely everything in order that of spurious
44:28
Speaker 2: diagnostic process can say that you absolutely require this, that
44:33
Speaker 2: and the other treatment without once examining why somebody might
44:37
Speaker 2: be in that state of health in the first place.
44:39
Speaker 2: And you know these sorts of things that the MRHA
44:41
Speaker 2: it does. But by purely saying that they are an
44:44
Speaker 2: enabler is only going to get worse and worse and
44:46
Speaker 2: perpetuate the situation.
44:48
Speaker 1: And it's horrific. And remember these diagnoses are going to
44:51
Speaker 1: happen through genomic sequencing and blood tests and AI and
44:56
Speaker 1: data centers. And yes, there are many, many other questions
45:00
Speaker 1: about who gets priority for energy for example, around that,
45:04
Speaker 1: but let's move on childs to the issue of pre crime.
45:08
Speaker 2: Yes, well that's what I'm heading this report. We're dealing
45:11
Speaker 2: with what's being called the Safer Streets Initiative, the Labor
45:15
Speaker 2: Party saying this is under the heading Plan for Change,
45:18
Speaker 2: which is somewhat doubtful because of course this was exactly
45:20
Speaker 2: what the Johnson government of twenty twenty two called a
45:24
Speaker 2: similar initiative. But this is in response to what they're
45:26
Speaker 2: describing as reduced community policing. The police community sports officers
45:32
Speaker 2: sort of had the halving of numbers of police on foot,
45:38
Speaker 2: undermining in the trust in police by various misconduct and
45:42
Speaker 2: criminal activities. Then we have the topics that I've was
45:45
Speaker 2: speaking about the last couple of weeks violence towards women
45:47
Speaker 2: and girls and then of course domestic abuse up. And
45:50
Speaker 2: this is straight away there's this link to the refined
45:55
Speaker 2: ideology surrounding terror, terrorism, the definitions and all the rest
45:59
Speaker 2: of it. Government saying that they're going to work with
46:01
Speaker 2: the police and they'll turn this around. They're not quite
46:03
Speaker 2: clear which direction they're going to turn it in, but
46:04
Speaker 2: nonetheless they say that they're going to stick thirteen thousand
46:07
Speaker 2: additional police pcsays and special constables specifically into neighborhood roles.
46:13
Speaker 2: And as I say, this does feed into the new
46:15
Speaker 2: terrorism narrative because of course they're linking it to knife
46:18
Speaker 2: crime as well as the violence towards women and girls
46:22
Speaker 2: and now domestic violence. So we just go on and
46:29
Speaker 2: show the specific announcement about coercive control now, so that
46:35
Speaker 2: you know with all of this they're being very deliberately simplistic.
46:39
Speaker 2: They're focusing on the way that a problem manifests and
46:43
Speaker 2: not what causes it in the first place. And this
46:45
Speaker 2: links to the announcement about better protecting victims of domestic abuse. Now,
46:51
Speaker 2: the reason that I refer to this as being pre
46:55
Speaker 2: crime is that we're dealing with behaviors that may happen
46:59
Speaker 2: based on something that has happened or might have happened.
47:03
Speaker 2: So what needs to be pointed out here with regards
47:05
Speaker 2: to domestic abuse, but specifically coercive and controlling behavior, is
47:09
Speaker 2: that the ratio of first of all charges and then
47:12
Speaker 2: convictions is very, very low. And specifically they're targeting offenders
47:17
Speaker 2: who've had twelve month sentences or more. And they said
47:19
Speaker 2: that they'll now be automatically managed under multi agency Public
47:23
Speaker 2: Protection arrangement. Double speak if ever there was now multi agency,
47:27
Speaker 2: I would say is synonymous with failure and corruption. But
47:30
Speaker 2: they plow on and state that agencies are going to
47:33
Speaker 2: be legally bound to or sorry, legally required to cooperate.
47:38
Speaker 2: And here we get to these orders. So we've seen
47:41
Speaker 2: them with knife crime. We had the announcement for respect orders.
47:45
Speaker 2: So all of these things are very much pushing us
47:48
Speaker 2: into the area of pre crime where police or local
47:51
Speaker 2: authorities may take action based on something that you might do,
47:56
Speaker 2: but equally you might not, and it's nothing to do
47:59
Speaker 2: with the underlying causes in society avoided absolutely every time.
48:04
Speaker 2: Now the Home Office, of course are boasting and their
48:08
Speaker 2: sort of end of year wrap up last year about
48:11
Speaker 2: all the things that they've achieved. But this is exactly
48:13
Speaker 2: where they're referring to all of these initiatives, these orders,
48:18
Speaker 2: and these processes that really should not ever have formed
48:22
Speaker 2: part of the legislative framework in the first place. And
48:26
Speaker 2: this takes us forward to the Digital Policing Summit, which
48:30
Speaker 2: is not sort of in a way to be considered
48:34
Speaker 2: as an objective affair, sponsored as it was by City Forum,
48:37
Speaker 2: a think tank which sells sponsorship packages allowing involvement in
48:41
Speaker 2: developing an agenda, and it seems exactly to be what's
48:44
Speaker 2: going on here. An agenda is being developed. They're partnered
48:47
Speaker 2: with the Accelerated Capability Environment ACE, which courses an unfortunate
48:51
Speaker 2: acronym in policing terms because that also stands for adverse
48:54
Speaker 2: childhood events. But nonetheless they say that they have expertise
48:58
Speaker 2: from industry and academic to innovate, collaboratively and deliver frontline
49:02
Speaker 2: mission impact at PACE. They talk also about AI, who
49:06
Speaker 2: doesn't and they say the consensus was clear AI shouldn't
49:09
Speaker 2: replace people, it should empower them, and the goal of
49:12
Speaker 2: applying AI isn't zero crime, but mitigating and preventing incidents.
49:16
Speaker 2: While maintaining public confidence. AI must be implemented thoughtfully as
49:20
Speaker 2: a tool to complement human expertise rather than replace it.
49:24
Speaker 2: And they reference the new National Center of Policing which
49:26
Speaker 2: about Cooper announced several months ago. And of course they're
49:30
Speaker 2: keen to make the point here that operational independence is
49:33
Speaker 2: not the same thing as organizational organizational independence, although in
49:37
Speaker 2: fact what they're setting out is exactly something that will
49:41
Speaker 2: completely nullify operational independence as they centralize platforms and they
49:45
Speaker 2: talk about collaboration and accountability structures. So this is absolutely
49:49
Speaker 2: going to strip away operational independence and of course the
49:53
Speaker 2: power of the exercise of discretion and this has far
49:57
Speaker 2: reaching sort of tentacles beyond police into education, probation, community
50:02
Speaker 2: services and even the private sector. So as we've reported
50:04
Speaker 2: on before, this is going to do away with the
50:08
Speaker 2: operational independence. And then of course we look forward to
50:10
Speaker 2: how this gets tied into the next iteration of the
50:15
Speaker 2: definition of terror and terrorism and indeed the powers that
50:18
Speaker 2: are going to go with that.
50:20
Speaker 1: Thank you, Charles. Let's come back to Vanessa and what
50:26
Speaker 1: is a leid Ustan Russia.
50:29
Speaker 11: Well, Russia the Middle East. So this is Sergei Lavrov.
50:34
Speaker 11: In the last couple of days at the Valdai fourteenth
50:37
Speaker 11: Middle East Conference. Strange, strange statement from him, to be honest,
50:45
Speaker 11: But in part of it he says, attempts to remove Russia,
50:49
Speaker 11: China and Iran from the process of externally supporting a
50:53
Speaker 11: Syrian settlement are hardly motivated by goodwill. I'm not quite
50:57
Speaker 11: sure why he would expect any goodwill from the West
51:00
Speaker 11: and their allies. And I've slightly paraphrased here the West
51:05
Speaker 11: intention is to push its competitors into secondary, less meaningful positions. Well, yes,
51:14
Speaker 11: you don't say Sherlock.
51:16
Speaker 10: On that one.
51:16
Speaker 11: I mean that again, little bit strange wording from him,
51:21
Speaker 11: but I'll put it into context. So on the twenty fifth,
51:25
Speaker 11: Moscow sent Bogdanoff, who's the deputy Foreign Minister, to Syria
51:31
Speaker 11: to meet with effectively a terrorist organization whom they were
51:37
Speaker 11: fighting against since twenty fifteen, and part of the conversation
51:42
Speaker 11: was the extradition of President Asad, who of course was
51:46
Speaker 11: only given humanitarian asylum by Russia, not political asylum. And
51:51
Speaker 11: rather than condemn Israel for the destruction of Syria, it
51:56
Speaker 11: appears that Russia is to be responsible for rebuilding trust
52:02
Speaker 11: with the Syrian people. Through concrete measures such as reparations,
52:06
Speaker 11: reconstruction and economic recovery. Although I would say the backers
52:10
Speaker 11: of HTS have the largest responsibility for the devastation in Syria,
52:15
Speaker 11: and that includes Israel. Both parties discuss mechanisms of transitional
52:21
Speaker 11: justice aimed at ensuring accountability and securing justice for victims
52:25
Speaker 11: of the Assad regime's brutal war. The Syrian administration reiterated
52:30
Speaker 11: its commitment to engaging with all stakeholders in a principal
52:34
Speaker 11: manner to build a future rooted in justice, dignity, and sovereignty.
52:38
Speaker 11: It stressed that any restoration of relations must address past injustices,
52:43
Speaker 11: respect the will of the Syrian people, and serve their interests.
52:45
Speaker 11: I won't go on and on about the ethnic cleansing
52:48
Speaker 11: that is ongoing and that was not condemned by Lav
52:52
Speaker 11: or by Bogged and Off during his meeting, and I'll
52:56
Speaker 11: just finish on what we said in the meeting. Russia
53:01
Speaker 11: is considered to have a meaningful role in achieving transitional justice,
53:06
Speaker 11: but that includes, as they said, the extradition of a
53:08
Speaker 11: SAD and senior security in military officials in Russia, and
53:13
Speaker 11: to cooperate, we're tracking down and prosecuting those still at
53:16
Speaker 11: large globally so effectively HTS, and of course that means
53:21
Speaker 11: their backs are pushing Russia now to betray their allies
53:25
Speaker 11: for the last decade. And one could go back, of course,
53:30
Speaker 11: much further than that, back to nineteen forty six. Dmitri
53:33
Speaker 11: Pesco of the presidential spokesman had no comment in response
53:38
Speaker 11: to these claims, which again is slightly worrying, and they're
53:42
Speaker 11: looking for Russian support for the positive or Russia is
53:46
Speaker 11: supporting positive developments. Again, there is no condemnation of the
53:50
Speaker 11: ethnic cleansing being carried out by a still prescribed terrorist group,
53:56
Speaker 11: so fascinating, But clues are all around.
53:59
Speaker 10: US is back from.
54:01
Speaker 11: Twenty twenty one and recently leaked documents show that Russian
54:07
Speaker 11: firms basically Ross Electronics, which is a subsidiary of Rostek,
54:13
Speaker 11: which is a state own defense conglomerate, have done deals
54:19
Speaker 11: with Saudi Arabia since twenty twenty one going forward into
54:24
Speaker 11: twenty twenty six, which includes obviously air defense systems two
54:31
Speaker 11: billion dollars worth. Again, the clues might be in the
54:35
Speaker 11: fact that, of course, in my opinion, looking at the
54:39
Speaker 11: facts as I now have them, there has been a
54:43
Speaker 11: lot of criticism of President a Sad pivot towards the
54:46
Speaker 11: Gulf States, but in my opinion, what we're now seeing
54:49
Speaker 11: is that Russia was very much encouraging as Sad to
54:54
Speaker 11: do this, to pivot towards Saudi Arabia. Sometime in twenty
54:58
Speaker 11: twenty four asked a schruler government officials or ambassador to
55:04
Speaker 11: leave Damascus on the basis that Saudi Arabia would provide
55:08
Speaker 11: them with humanitarian aid. That humanitarian aid never came to fruition.
55:13
Speaker 11: And now suddenly we see the ht As Foreign Minister Shaibani,
55:20
Speaker 11: who of course was interviewed by Tony Blaret Davos welcoming
55:24
Speaker 11: back the Saudi proxy government ambassador to Damascus. So, in
55:31
Speaker 11: other words, Saudi Arabia is getting its footprints safely back
55:36
Speaker 11: inside Syria with the help of HTS and potentially Russia.
55:41
Speaker 11: In this again we talked about the fact that Russia
55:44
Speaker 11: potentially abandoned Syria for a deal with Trump over Ukraine,
55:51
Speaker 11: and in the last forty eight hours this headline came
55:54
Speaker 11: out in Reuters. Saudi Arabia and Ua seen as possible
55:58
Speaker 11: venues for the Trump who to summit where they will
56:01
Speaker 11: discuss Ukraine and future energy cooperation. So very interesting shift
56:09
Speaker 11: in regional balance at the moment.
56:13
Speaker 1: Thank you, Vanessa. So let's move on to Ukraine then
56:18
Speaker 1: and well. On Wednesday, I was reporting that Kirs Starmer
56:22
Speaker 1: had visited Brussels in his efforts to bring the UK
56:26
Speaker 1: back into the EU to reset that relationship, as he
56:30
Speaker 1: describes it. Later in the day he met with Mark Rudder,
56:33
Speaker 1: Secretary General of Nile, and this is what they had
56:36
Speaker 1: or what he had to say about that meeting.
56:40
Speaker 13: The UK's commitment to NATO is stronger than ever because
56:45
Speaker 13: the need for NATO is stronger than ever. And we've
56:48
Speaker 13: had a very good and productive discussion today on how
56:51
Speaker 13: we can meet the rising threats that Russia poses across
56:55
Speaker 13: our continent. And we must do all that we can
56:57
Speaker 13: to support Ukraine's defense. I mean stabilizing the frontline, providing
57:02
Speaker 13: the kit and training that they need, and that's why
57:05
Speaker 13: this year the UK will give more military support to
57:08
Speaker 13: Ukraine than ever before. We need to see all allies
57:11
Speaker 13: stepping up, particularly in Europe, and we must keep working
57:16
Speaker 13: together to bolster NATA.
57:20
Speaker 1: You got to love the music. So aside from excuse me,
57:23
Speaker 1: aside from EU defense, Starmer continues to double downland support
57:27
Speaker 1: for Ukraine. Now, following on from Wednesday's events, the Foreign
57:31
Speaker 1: Secretary David Lammi is traveling to Kiev today. Two quotes
57:35
Speaker 1: see firsthand how UK support is putting Ukraine in the
57:39
Speaker 1: strongest possible position to continue the war. So that's as
57:42
Speaker 1: good news, isn't it. One of the things he will
57:45
Speaker 1: do while he's there is to deliver on commitments. These
57:48
Speaker 1: are their words, to deliver on commitments made to Celenski
57:51
Speaker 1: buy Starmer two weeks ago. So they're going to provide
57:54
Speaker 1: three million pounds for deliveries of Ukrainian grain and other
57:58
Speaker 1: food product products to Syria. So one terrorist government is
58:03
Speaker 1: paying another terrorist government to support another terrorist government. So
58:06
Speaker 1: that works well, doesn't it. This is going to be
58:09
Speaker 1: done through the World Food Program. Lami's also going to
58:13
Speaker 1: a nine to seventeen million pounds for innovative energy projects
58:17
Speaker 1: to support the recovery and sustainability of Ukraine's energy system.
58:22
Speaker 1: It's not clear what that actually means because they don't
58:25
Speaker 1: go into specifics. Better presume that when they use the
58:28
Speaker 1: word clean, which they do use in the press release,
58:30
Speaker 1: that that means windmills. A further twenty five million pounds
58:34
Speaker 1: of UK funding is going to support Ukraine's strengthen. What
58:39
Speaker 1: they describe is more inclusive, effective and efficient social systems
58:43
Speaker 1: and services, and again there are no specifics about what
58:46
Speaker 1: that means, but the language does suggest that that includes,
58:48
Speaker 1: for example, promoting LGBT rights and so on, bringing Western
58:53
Speaker 1: woke narratives into Ukraine. They also mentioned the Spirit program
58:57
Speaker 1: spiriit in capitals, so that's an acronym of some kind.
59:01
Speaker 1: Don't know what it means. They claim that's going to
59:04
Speaker 1: help Ukraine build a more resilient, prosperous and barrier free
59:09
Speaker 1: future for all. Again, no details on what that is,
59:13
Speaker 1: so we'll do our best to find out and keep
59:15
Speaker 1: you posted. But to put this in perspective, this is
59:20
Speaker 1: all part of two hundred and eighty two million pounds
59:22
Speaker 1: in support for twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five,
59:25
Speaker 1: in addition to the commitment already made to provide three
59:28
Speaker 1: billion pounds of military support per year for as long
59:32
Speaker 1: as it takes. So starmer doubling down, tripling down, every
59:38
Speaker 1: getting done as often as you can, I suspect and
59:43
Speaker 1: Ukraine receiving all the money while people suffering more problems
59:47
Speaker 1: in this country and infrastructure collapsing in this country. But anyway, we'll,
59:51
Speaker 1: I'm sure talk more about this in the coming days
59:55
Speaker 1: and weeks.
59:56
Speaker 2: We will, you know, when one there's when reading or
59:58
Speaker 2: hearing that how many people in Ukraine looking this way
1:00:02
Speaker 2: and thinking well, why would such a person come to
1:00:04
Speaker 2: speak to us about how to do it if he
1:00:06
Speaker 2: can't work out how to get it right on his
1:00:08
Speaker 2: own doorstep, and just passing thoughts. I wonder who's getting
1:00:12
Speaker 2: to be quite the right shape to lend his combat
1:00:15
Speaker 2: to David Lammy.
1:00:18
Speaker 1: Okay, let's leave it there for today. Thank you very
1:00:21
Speaker 1: much to Charles and Valessa for joining us. Stay on
1:00:24
Speaker 1: the stream if you are a UK column member for
1:00:26
Speaker 1: some UK column News extra in a few minutes. Otherwise,
1:00:30
Speaker 1: the interview with Julian Rose tomorrow and Charles and News
1:00:33
Speaker 1: again one pm as usual on Friday. We'll see you then.
1:00:36
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Bye bye, bye bye