Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #740 You Can Handle the Truth

Transcript

#740 You Can Handle the Truth · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the.
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Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers.
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Speaker 3: Now. Hello, it's doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy
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Speaker 3: Families dot com dot you, author of Oh can you
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Speaker 3: Believe It? My eighth book comes out on the first
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Speaker 3: of May. It's only a few weeks away, just around
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Speaker 3: the corner. And I am here with Christine Leighton, ABC
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Speaker 3: Perth and Western Australia Afternoons presenter, who has kindly given
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Speaker 3: up some time this week to hang out with me
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Speaker 3: and share some podcast ideas. Because missus Happy Families, Kylie
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Speaker 3: is being well. I don't know how to say this
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Speaker 3: without getting myself in trouble, but she's been mum.
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Speaker 1: She's decided she's done with the podcast this week. She
0:42
Speaker 1: just wants some time with the kids. She said, Justin,
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Speaker 1: you go and do it. So here I am. I'm
0:46
Speaker 1: doing it.
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Speaker 3: And Christine, thanks for thanks for filling in and being
0:48
Speaker 3: missus Happy Families today.
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Speaker 4: It's an honor. It's an honor, Justin.
0:52
Speaker 5: And look, thank you so much for releasing your next
0:54
Speaker 5: book on my birthday.
0:55
Speaker 1: Really May one, May one.
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Speaker 5: That's right, May day, as my mum would say, of.
1:00
Speaker 1: Course, yeah, well, happy birthday my book. Can we talk
1:02
Speaker 1: about it for a second. I know we've got another.
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Speaker 4: Topic, but my book is called Everything.
1:06
Speaker 3: The Parenting Revolution because I think we need one, and
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Speaker 3: I'm so we should actually talk about this on ABC
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Speaker 3: Perth and Wa when the book comes out.
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Speaker 1: Would that be okay? Would you be up for that?
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Speaker 4: Oh? Always?
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Speaker 5: Justin enough.
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Speaker 4: I wanted to know more about it so I could
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Speaker 4: start taking notes. So what's it about.
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Speaker 3: Well, it's kind of like about the past, present, and
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Speaker 3: future of parenting.
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Speaker 1: I look at the Have you heard of the book
1:28
Speaker 1: series Horrible Histories?
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Speaker 4: Yes? I have.
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Speaker 6: If there's a different to drunk Histories but without the alcohol.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I think that there was probably alcohol involved
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Speaker 3: in most of those horrible histories as well. But the
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Speaker 3: history of parenting is perhaps the most horrible history of all.
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Speaker 3: It's absolutely devastating when you dive into what historians.
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Speaker 1: Have uncovered about how children used to be raised.
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Speaker 3: And so the first couple of chapters I talk about
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Speaker 3: what it is to be a good parent, how that's
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Speaker 3: changed through the millennia and especially through recent centuries, and
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Speaker 3: most particularly over the last one hundred years. What does
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Speaker 3: it actually mean to be a good parent, and then
2:00
Speaker 3: we talk about what pairing styles are, Helicopter parents and
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Speaker 3: tiger parents and gentle parents and free range parents, the
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Speaker 3: whole lot, as well as the academic version of that,
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Speaker 3: the authoritative, the authoritarian, and the permissive parent. And essentially
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Speaker 3: I highlight why they're so popular, these parenting styles and
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Speaker 3: also what's wrong with them.
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Speaker 1: And then we talk.
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Speaker 3: About the future of parenting where we need to go,
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Speaker 3: and I talk about this thing that's called need supportive parenting,
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Speaker 3: which I.
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Speaker 1: Think is the pairing revolution that we need.
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Speaker 3: It's the kind of paring that says our children have
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Speaker 3: basic psychological needs and if we can create an environment
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Speaker 3: that supports those needs, oh my goodness, they thrive, They flourish,
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Speaker 3: they're motivated, their well being as high they like, they
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Speaker 3: just become great, well adapted kids. And so the rest
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Speaker 3: of the book is essentially, how do we create that environment,
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Speaker 3: how do we support those what are those needs and
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Speaker 3: how do.
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Speaker 1: We support them? So the pairing revolution may one it.
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Speaker 6: Sounds like the book version of parental guidance in a
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Speaker 6: way justice because I love seeing you on screen with
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Speaker 6: the various labels talking through how they do and don't work.
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Speaker 6: But then you've got the future of parenting as well,
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Speaker 6: So definitely bookmark that ABC Radio Perth wa that's great. Now,
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Speaker 6: I wanted to ask you what to do when a
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Speaker 6: child starts lying.
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Speaker 4: There are two parts to this? Can I tell you
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Speaker 4: two very short stories?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well you have a four year old, so I'm
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Speaker 3: going to guess this is a personal one, right, This
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Speaker 3: is you're after some therapy in today's podcast?
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Speaker 1: Am I right?
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Speaker 4: Maybe it actually starts with me. Now. I was in
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Speaker 4: year two.
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Speaker 6: I was doing very rebellious things like cutting my own
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Speaker 6: fringe during class with scissors. I went to a friend's
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Speaker 6: house without without asking mum, and these were the days
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Speaker 6: without mobile, so she didn't know where i'd gone.
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Speaker 4: Called Jane Gardner. She was never my friend again.
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Speaker 6: But what I did do was I pretended that I
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Speaker 6: had a mole removed to get attention at school. And
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Speaker 6: I remember doing this to get everyone's love and affection
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Speaker 6: and sympathy, and Mama Dad sent me down and said.
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Speaker 4: You know, why did you do that? And of course
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Speaker 4: in you too. I had no idea. Looking back, my
4:07
Speaker 4: brother had just been born.
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Speaker 6: I think he was maybe one or two years old,
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Speaker 6: and I was probably lacking that affection and So the
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Speaker 6: second part of this is the fact that my daughter
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Speaker 6: is now four years old. I'm not putting my template
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Speaker 6: onto her, but she's very similar to me in terms
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Speaker 6: of characteristics. She's very excited about her baby brother, which
4:27
Speaker 6: is currently in my belly right now. She's got little
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Speaker 6: dolls and feeds them and puts them in the walker
4:32
Speaker 6: so that they can have a little nap. But I
4:34
Speaker 6: am concerned that when baby number two comes along that
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Speaker 6: she will also be seeking that connection all that she'll
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Speaker 6: use that connection seeking behavior as you call it, which
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Speaker 6: is such a useful term.
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Speaker 4: So what do you do when your child starts lying?
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Speaker 6: I mean, when Mamma dad sat me down and said
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Speaker 6: this is the wrong thing to do, I understood why,
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Speaker 6: but from memory, justin I kept doing it. I had
5:00
Speaker 6: to learn the lesson. So what do you do?
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Speaker 3: I love your stories. I love how you picked them out.
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Speaker 3: When you were sharing those, it reminded me of a
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Speaker 3: story from when I was a kid. I used to
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Speaker 3: exaggerate all the time. I used to tell lies to
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Speaker 3: my friends because I wanted to be popular, I wanted
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Speaker 3: to be cool, And you just reminded me of maybe
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Speaker 3: the biggest one that I ever told which was in
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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety. There was this concert. It was like a
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Speaker 3: multi city live broadcast of the first ever National Australian
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Speaker 3: Music Day. It was called OZ Music nineteen ninety and
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Speaker 3: they had performers in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth
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Speaker 3: and I'm talking all of the Australia's biggest acts. We
5:41
Speaker 3: had John Farnham and do you remember Joe Camileary in
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Speaker 3: The Black Sorrows. Paul Kelly and the Messengers, if I
5:47
Speaker 3: recall correctly, played in Adelaide, and I loved Paul Kelly,
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Speaker 3: Wennie Matthews, Crowded House, Born Crash Opera, and it was
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Speaker 3: just it was huge, and it was telecast on.
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Speaker 1: Channel seven or Channel nin or something.
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Speaker 3: And when I showed up to school on the Monday,
6:03
Speaker 3: so this was on a Saturday, and on the Monday
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Speaker 3: when I showed up for school, one of my friends
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Speaker 3: asked me what I did, and I said, I went
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Speaker 3: to Adelaide for the OS Music Concert because I wanted
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Speaker 3: to be the cool kid who got to go to
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Speaker 3: this show, and because I'd watched it all afternoon on TV.
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Speaker 3: Because I was such a music nut, I knew everyone
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Speaker 3: that had performed and all the songs that they played,
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Speaker 3: and I just told this great big lie and I
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Speaker 3: got to be cool for the day because my parents
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Speaker 3: flew me to Adelaide in nineteen ninety to see Oz
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Speaker 3: music and it never happened. And like, I hear your story,
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Speaker 3: and I'm like, don't all kids do that? Don't we
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Speaker 3: all tell lies so that we can look better, so
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Speaker 3: that we exaggerate, so that we can look good. I just,
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Speaker 3: I know that's a tangent that moves away from what
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Speaker 3: your original question was. But I just I don't know.
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Speaker 3: I needed to confess to you, Christine. I needed to
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Speaker 3: get off.
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Speaker 4: For christ I'm so glad you did.
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Speaker 6: But also, I mean, as an ABC presented, that is
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Speaker 6: the ultimate lineup.
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Speaker 5: Could you imagine if that happened now? I'm probably lied
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Speaker 5: of my friends too.
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Speaker 3: I'm just googling it as we speak. So this is
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Speaker 3: not the entire lineup, but the top lineup have a
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Speaker 3: listened to this. We've got Ice House, Mental as Anything,
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Speaker 3: Tim Finn, Crowded House, Boom Crash Opera, Kate Sobrano, Ian Moss,
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Speaker 3: Wendy Matthews, Paul Kelly, The Black Sorros, John Front.
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Speaker 6: I mean what, Well, you pretty much got it right,
7:16
Speaker 6: by the way, justin You've got a really good memory.
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Speaker 1: You know what, I really love my music. I remember
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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff when it comes to music.
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Speaker 3: I'm putting together a music trivia night at the moment,
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Speaker 3: and I'm having so much fun, just getting ready to
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Speaker 3: destroy everyone with my music knowledge. But anyway, we digress. Now,
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Speaker 3: what was this specific question again? Because I got so
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Speaker 3: caught up in my story.
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Speaker 1: I need this fine.
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Speaker 6: That was a fun, little great music nerd session.
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Speaker 4: What do you do when your child starts lying?
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Speaker 3: Ah?
7:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's right.
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Speaker 3: So the best thing to do is, you know, you know,
7:51
Speaker 3: the pump soap. You just got to open up their mouth,
7:54
Speaker 3: squirt a few squirts of pump soap into their mouth.
7:57
Speaker 3: You get them to swish it around their teeth. I'm
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Speaker 3: just kidding. Please, if anyone's like.
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Speaker 2: A horrible history, if anybody heard me say that and
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Speaker 2: thought I was being serious, let me be absolutely never, ever, ever, ever,
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Speaker 2: never watch your kids in mouth out with So, I
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Speaker 2: think we've got to pause and just consider why is
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Speaker 2: our child lying?
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Speaker 3: And when it comes to lying to us the life
8:16
Speaker 3: for a few reasons. The first reason that they lie
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Speaker 3: is because they just don't want to be in trouble.
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Speaker 3: They're terrified that if we know the truth, that they're
8:25
Speaker 3: going to be in big trouble. The second reason is
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Speaker 3: because they want to protect their self esteem. I believe
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Speaker 3: that I'm a good person, and I need my parents
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Speaker 3: to believe that I'm a good person. And if I
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Speaker 3: tell them the truth about this thing that I've done,
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Speaker 3: I'm going to look like I'm a bad person, and
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Speaker 3: that means that I also have to admit that I'm
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Speaker 3: a bad person. The third reason that kids tell lies,
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Speaker 3: if we go back to my oz music story and
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Speaker 3: your story from earlier as well, is because we want
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Speaker 3: to look good. We want to look competent, capable, we
8:58
Speaker 3: want to look like we have got it all together.
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Speaker 3: I mean, this is why kids lie about having the
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Speaker 3: room done or having their homework done.
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Speaker 1: It's not always because they want to get out of trouble.
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Speaker 3: It's because even if they're struggling with their maths, they're like, no, no, no,
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Speaker 3: I'm fine, I'm fine because they want to appear that
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Speaker 3: they've got it all together. They want it to look
9:18
Speaker 3: like everything's fine, because to suggest otherwise is to indicate
9:22
Speaker 3: that they are incompetent, and kids they want to look competent.
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Speaker 3: So that's the first thing. Let's just understand why our
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Speaker 3: child is lying. There may be some other reasons as well,
9:31
Speaker 3: but they, to me, are going to be the central ones.
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Speaker 1: So what do we do?
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Speaker 3: I think the first thing that we want to do, well,
9:37
Speaker 3: it kind of depends on the context, but the first
9:39
Speaker 3: thing we want to do typically is reassure them that
9:42
Speaker 3: they're not going to get in trouble no matter what.
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Speaker 3: The last thing that you want your kids thinking is
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Speaker 3: that you are going to be nasty to them because
9:50
Speaker 3: they've told you the truth. The stakes are kind of
9:53
Speaker 3: low when they're two or three, or four or five,
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Speaker 3: but when they're fifteen or seventeen, the stakes.
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Speaker 1: Are a lot higher. And you really want them to
10:00
Speaker 1: be able to come to you as a seventeen.
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Speaker 3: Year old and call you at eleven o'clock on Saturday
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Speaker 3: night and say I'm in trouble. I've done some dumb
10:10
Speaker 3: things tonight and I need your help. I can't get
10:14
Speaker 3: out of this situation on my own. Like, the stakes
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Speaker 3: are much higher at that point, and if they know
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Speaker 3: that they won't get in trouble, then that goes a
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Speaker 3: long way to alleviating the anxiety they feel around telling
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Speaker 3: the truth.
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Speaker 4: Have you heard of Plan X?
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Speaker 3: Justin Plan X is that where you send a text
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Speaker 3: message with an X to say I need help?
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Speaker 1: Is that yes, yes.
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Speaker 6: A listener told me about this a few weeks ago,
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Speaker 6: and that the agreement is if you send that X,
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Speaker 6: then there's a script that you follow.
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Speaker 4: You know, you say, I give them a call. I've
10:45
Speaker 4: got to go home call.
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Speaker 6: You'll be there in five minutes, no matter where they are,
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Speaker 6: if they've gone to a party, you know, twenty kilometers.
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Speaker 4: Away, doesn't matter.
10:53
Speaker 6: And then they can tell you as little or as
10:55
Speaker 6: much as they want to. And that's that's the Plan
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Speaker 6: X agreement. That was really cool and it kind of
11:02
Speaker 6: ties into that. And I'm in a book market because
11:04
Speaker 6: Bonnie is absolutely going to party huts.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to see it.
11:09
Speaker 3: So that brings us to I think one of the
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Speaker 3: things that parents get wrong when it comes to dishonesty
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Speaker 3: all the time, and that is we walk into the room.
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Speaker 1: Let's say you've got a four year old who's.
11:19
Speaker 3: Been a little bit of a cheeky monkey. You walk
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Speaker 3: into the room and you say, did you do this thing?
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Speaker 1: Whatever it is?
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Speaker 3: Did you hit your brother? Did you steal the cookies
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Speaker 3: from the cookie jar?
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Speaker 1: Did you?
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Speaker 3: And we ask them a question that we already know
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Speaker 3: the answer to, which is which is a fatal mistake
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Speaker 3: because now they're in a bind. With young children, they've
11:42
Speaker 3: got limited access to the information that's in our head.
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Speaker 3: They just don't have the developmental capacity to got my
11:48
Speaker 3: parents really know.
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Speaker 1: But with older.
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Speaker 3: Children it makes it even more taxing because they're like, oh,
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Speaker 3: I reckon, they do know, but I'm going to try
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Speaker 3: and get away with it, because what if they don't.
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Speaker 3: They start to play these mind games. What happens when
11:59
Speaker 3: we say did you? When we already know the answer.
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Speaker 3: If they tell the truth, they know they're in trouble.
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Speaker 3: But if they tell a lie, now they're in double
12:06
Speaker 3: trouble because not only have they told a lie, but
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Speaker 3: they've also done the wrong thing. And so the rule is,
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Speaker 3: when you walk into the room to talk to your
12:13
Speaker 3: child about a misbehavior, a misdemeanor, a challenging issue, never
12:17
Speaker 3: ever ever ask them a question you know the answer to,
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Speaker 3: instead walking in and say I just walked past this
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Speaker 3: doorway and I saw you throw the Tonka truck at
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Speaker 3: your brother's head. And now he's crying, and now your
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Speaker 3: child is very unlikely look at you and say I
12:31
Speaker 3: did not. I did not because you've just told them
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Speaker 3: I walked past the door and I watched you throw
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Speaker 3: the Tonka truck at your brother's head. Like that's the
12:39
Speaker 3: end of that conversation, and then we get to move
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Speaker 3: on with what happens next. We don't have to deal
12:43
Speaker 3: with lying so often. We set our kids up to
12:46
Speaker 3: lie by asking them questions that we know the answer to,
12:51
Speaker 3: and with them being afraid of getting in trouble, they're
12:54
Speaker 3: now going to try and get out of it. So
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Speaker 3: I guess that's kind of a long way to answer
12:58
Speaker 3: your question, but there are a couple of things apace
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Speaker 3: parents need to do when their kids start lying.
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Speaker 1: The next thing that I would.
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Speaker 3: Say is we just say to our kids, we didn't
13:10
Speaker 3: have chat about this thing, and we remind them of
13:14
Speaker 3: what honesty is and why honesty is important, and then
13:17
Speaker 3: we have a chat about it. If they're still lying
13:19
Speaker 3: because they're terrified they're going to get in trouble and
13:21
Speaker 3: we know that they're lying, you can sit there and
13:23
Speaker 3: argue and say, hey, I know you're lying, and they
13:24
Speaker 3: can say but I'm not lying, you.
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Speaker 1: Know, I know you're lying. I'm not lying at all.
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Speaker 3: That's that Ruth and you both end up in this
13:31
Speaker 3: horrible spiral. So it's best to say right now. You're
13:33
Speaker 3: having a hard time with the truth and we both
13:36
Speaker 3: know that. So we'll have this conversation in half an hour,
13:39
Speaker 3: or we'll have this conversation tomorrow. You're not in trouble.
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Speaker 3: I love you too much to get you in trouble.
13:44
Speaker 3: But we do need to work this out because we
13:45
Speaker 3: can't keep having these situations.
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Speaker 1: And so what we're doing is we're downplaying the drama.
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Speaker 3: We're letting them know that we understand why they're lying,
13:53
Speaker 3: and we'll have the conversation a bit later when we
13:55
Speaker 3: can all tell the truth. Yeah.
13:57
Speaker 4: I like that. That's a really good idea.
14:00
Speaker 6: Oh I'm glad these are recorded, justin so I can
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Speaker 6: play it back in you know, one or two years,
14:05
Speaker 6: things you know, really escalate, but you know in the meantime,
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Speaker 6: you're absolved of your lying sins.
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Speaker 4: Just let that be clear.
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Speaker 1: I can't believe that I confess that. Well. I hope
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Speaker 1: that it has been helpful.
14:19
Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin rolland from
14:21
Speaker 3: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for
14:24
Speaker 3: more information about making your family happier, we would love
14:26
Speaker 3: for you to visit our Facebook page, doctor Justin Couson's
14:28
Speaker 3: Happy Families or happy families dot com.
14:30
Speaker 1: Dot you Christine, Let's do it again tomorrow.
14:32
Speaker 4: Yeah deal? Say you, Justin