Latest / The You Project / #1706 Who Am I For You, & Them, & Me? - Dr. Lillian Nejad

Transcript

#1706 Who Am I For You, & Them, & Me? - Dr. Lillian Nejad · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: Oh here we are. We're back. Everyone, We're back. I
0:03
Speaker 1: was going to start with a bang. I'm going to
0:05
Speaker 1: start low. I normally come in like hey, like that.
0:08
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that today, everyone. I'm just I'm just
0:11
Speaker 1: lulling you in, just with that kind of low key
0:15
Speaker 1: where we're going to build the energy through the show.
0:18
Speaker 1: We don't want to peak too early because otherwise then
0:20
Speaker 1: there's just gradual slide. So I'm just going to calmly
0:23
Speaker 1: and casually say I, tiff.
0:27
Speaker 2: I just felt a sense of calm just wash all
0:30
Speaker 2: over me.
0:31
Speaker 1: It's like it's like Jesus is hosting the podcast, isn't it.
0:36
Speaker 1: It's like the Dalai Lama has slipped into the number
0:40
Speaker 1: one seat. I don't speak. Pick your favorite guru. How's
0:46
Speaker 1: your day going, Cookie?
0:48
Speaker 2: Yeah? Good good. Just did some rounds with REXI at
0:51
Speaker 2: the gym. Seventy two years old, firing and like a teenager.
0:58
Speaker 1: How much like you do a lot of Like you
1:01
Speaker 1: you coach people, you do a bit of head stuff,
1:03
Speaker 1: but you also do a lot of practical feed on
1:07
Speaker 1: the ground, face to face training with human strength stuff,
1:11
Speaker 1: conditioning stuff, a lot of boxing stuff. What's your favorite
1:15
Speaker 1: thing to do? Is it one on one? Is it groups?
1:18
Speaker 1: Is it boxing training? Is it like, I know, you
1:21
Speaker 1: work with a few people with a few issues and
1:23
Speaker 1: you kind of help them through that through almost like
1:25
Speaker 1: physical therapy. What's your favorite face to face thing to do.
1:30
Speaker 2: I like, I like figuring out. I like exploring what's
1:35
Speaker 2: inside people's perceptions and that does that come through on everything?
1:42
Speaker 2: So that doesn't that doesn't matter if it's a boxing session,
1:46
Speaker 2: one on one, a boxing workshop, a mindset session. It's
1:51
Speaker 2: like everything's the metaphor for that. And I feel like
1:54
Speaker 2: that's what I'm like, sneaking around DOINGOW and it's and
1:59
Speaker 2: it's fun that because pennies just drop, or you learn
2:02
Speaker 2: something in ways that it's like a puzzle or you
2:05
Speaker 2: see patterns and it's cool. I like that.
2:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's like everything's intertwine. Let's say a
2:12
Speaker 1: load to the dock before we get too deep. Hi Doc,
2:14
Speaker 1: good morning, Good morning. How are you?
2:18
Speaker 3: I'm good for the morning. You know, I'm not really
2:20
Speaker 3: a morning person, as you know.
2:22
Speaker 1: Well you look we were saying before we press the
2:25
Speaker 1: go button. Compared to it. I mean this with respect
2:27
Speaker 1: because tips and athletes, So she looks like an athlete
2:30
Speaker 1: and dresses like an athlete. Do you look like a
2:32
Speaker 1: bloody runway model with your hair and your lipstick? And
2:35
Speaker 1: you I'm not saying done anything.
2:39
Speaker 3: I just literally got up and pull lipstick on.
2:43
Speaker 1: If I'm not saying that you're not glamorous, Tiff.
2:45
Speaker 2: Perhaps I've worn some redlippy, but at least twice in
2:48
Speaker 2: the last five years.
2:50
Speaker 1: Is that because is that? I reckon? We might see
2:53
Speaker 1: a bit more red lippy. Doc because somebody doesn't have
2:58
Speaker 1: a boyfriend. Nudge, nudge, wig. We you can invert it.
3:01
Speaker 1: Comments doesn't have a boyfriend? Okay, no, we know you don't,
3:06
Speaker 1: and it's good that you don't have a boyfriend.
3:10
Speaker 3: There's this mental health campaign called Liptember. It's for women's
3:16
Speaker 3: mental health, and I love it because it's associated with lipstick.
3:21
Speaker 3: So it's like mental health and lipstick my two favorite things.
3:25
Speaker 1: Well, I better get behind that.
3:28
Speaker 3: I've got like two hundred and fifty shades of lipstick.
3:31
Speaker 3: It's insane, and I always buy more because I'm like, oh,
3:36
Speaker 3: I don't have that exact shade. I need that red.
3:39
Speaker 2: See.
3:40
Speaker 1: I just think that you admitted one of probably one
3:43
Speaker 1: of your numerous psychological issues. It is as a psychologist.
3:48
Speaker 1: If somebody rocked up to you and said, I've got
3:50
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty different colored lipsticks it's not enough,
3:54
Speaker 1: what would you tell them?
3:55
Speaker 3: I'd say, yeah, I totally get it.
4:00
Speaker 2: What about you're totally The idea of trying to make
4:03
Speaker 2: a decision out of two hundred and fifty colors every
4:05
Speaker 2: single day almost puts me into a state of complete malfunction.
4:10
Speaker 3: Well, I've recently organized them into like the boxes of shade,
4:16
Speaker 3: so I've got brown, orange, pink, and red and so.
4:19
Speaker 3: Then so I know like which shed I want, and
4:22
Speaker 3: then I can pick out of them.
4:24
Speaker 1: Wow, here's a conversation organized chaos. Here's a conversation we've
4:30
Speaker 1: never had on the show. And I'm sure there's a
4:33
Speaker 1: lot there's a lot of people who are probably way
4:36
Speaker 1: more interested than me. I'm interested in the psychology behind it,
4:40
Speaker 1: the lipsticks, but the thinking, well, yeah, that is funny,
4:44
Speaker 1: isn't It's like, I don't know what it is about.
4:48
Speaker 1: I don't know. Do I just not care? Because I
4:50
Speaker 1: essentially wear every day a different black T shirt. And
4:53
Speaker 1: by the way, everyone I do have many ever Last
4:56
Speaker 1: T shirts and many Lonsdale T shirts. They're not the
4:58
Speaker 1: same one and any pairs of cat Go shorts. People
5:01
Speaker 1: think I have like one shirt and one No, I
5:05
Speaker 1: have like twenty or thirty of each. But yeah, what
5:07
Speaker 1: do you think that's about? Doc Where I just don't
5:10
Speaker 1: care what people think about what I wear, like I
5:13
Speaker 1: at all should I kid.
5:15
Speaker 3: It's not part of your sense of identity, but you know,
5:19
Speaker 3: there's probably some aspects that you care about. It might
5:22
Speaker 3: not be your overall like outfit that you care about,
5:25
Speaker 3: but it might be something about how you present yourself
5:29
Speaker 3: to the world, any know, Like lipsticks obviously super super superficial,
5:35
Speaker 3: but there's something for me or something about like I
5:38
Speaker 3: don't have to have anything else put together my outfit,
5:42
Speaker 3: my hair, but if I have lipstick and I feel
5:44
Speaker 3: okay to present myself.
5:46
Speaker 1: To it is so interesting because like it's my best
5:52
Speaker 1: mate's kid. Shout out to Vincent and Laura, his daughter.
5:56
Speaker 1: She's getting married on the weekend, and I've got a
5:58
Speaker 1: drive to fucking forever away, but very gratefully and happy.
6:03
Speaker 1: And I was just talking to Laura about five minutes ago,
6:06
Speaker 1: who's getting married on Saturday, and I said, I've known
6:10
Speaker 1: her since she was a baby. I've known all these
6:11
Speaker 1: kids since she was a baby, and she's stayed at
6:13
Speaker 1: my joint where I'm at right now multiple times. She
6:15
Speaker 1: was like one of my surrogate daughters growing up. And
6:19
Speaker 1: I go, I don't have to wear a suit, do I?
6:21
Speaker 1: And she goes no, And I go jeans and shirt like,
6:26
Speaker 1: which for me is formal. She goes no. I go,
6:30
Speaker 1: what do you mean no? She goes, well, no blue jeans.
6:33
Speaker 1: She goes, you can wear black jeans and a shirt.
6:36
Speaker 1: I'm like, and I'm thinking, for me, ah, black jeans.
6:40
Speaker 1: I don't have black jeans. Now, I've got to get
6:42
Speaker 1: black jeans. That's like formal. It's like for that, I'm like,
6:48
Speaker 1: it's a nightmare, mate. I think it's probably inherently just laziness.
6:53
Speaker 3: Well, you've just worked out like how you want to live,
6:55
Speaker 3: and that's completely fine, and that's but like in some
6:58
Speaker 3: situations you might have to stretch your.
7:00
Speaker 1: Up, do you know what? I think? To feel free
7:03
Speaker 1: to disagree with this, But because I get up from
7:06
Speaker 1: when I get out, Like if I get up at
7:08
Speaker 1: quarter to six ish, which I do most days, I'm
7:10
Speaker 1: at the cafe at quarter past six nearly every day,
7:14
Speaker 1: I meet with somebody to help them a bit or
7:17
Speaker 1: like an official or unofficial coaching session. If not, I'm writing,
7:21
Speaker 1: I'm working, and I'm planning for the day's podcast or
7:26
Speaker 1: the day's coaching sessions, or the day's PhD research or
7:29
Speaker 1: writing or the gig of you know. It's like, there's
7:32
Speaker 1: not a lot of time in my day where I'm
7:36
Speaker 1: doing not much. Like my most downtime in the day
7:39
Speaker 1: is going to the gym, talking shit, lifting a few weights,
7:43
Speaker 1: sliding into the vortex, which is the crab. My training
7:46
Speaker 1: partner's propensity. You can talk. It's funny like if you
7:50
Speaker 1: don't know him, he's like a mute, he's like shy,
7:52
Speaker 1: but once you know him, he does not shut up,
7:55
Speaker 1: which we love him for that. Anyway, I digress, But
7:58
Speaker 1: my long winded point is I just think of all
8:03
Speaker 1: the things I need to invest energy and attention in.
8:06
Speaker 1: I don't want to get up every day and wonder
8:07
Speaker 1: about what I'm going to wear and waste time on that.
8:10
Speaker 1: So I just go shorts, T shirt, runners, you know,
8:13
Speaker 1: hoodie done boom.
8:16
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I'm like that a lot of the time.
8:19
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I actually wear pajamas more than any others.
8:24
Speaker 1: Wo. I wish I had it rocked up with Johnny's
8:29
Speaker 1: and Buddy.
8:30
Speaker 3: I very easily could have. I know, it's like it's
8:32
Speaker 3: like ten forty five in the morning, but I didn't
8:34
Speaker 3: have any appointments this morning, so I mean I could
8:38
Speaker 3: have very easily come in my pajamas and had no
8:41
Speaker 3: issue with it at all. I remember once when I
8:44
Speaker 3: had my first daughter, and you know how the maternal
8:46
Speaker 3: well you might not know, but the maternal and child
8:48
Speaker 3: health nurse comes to your house within the first week
8:50
Speaker 3: to check on you. And I it was like two PM,
8:55
Speaker 3: and I answered the door in my pajamas, and I
9:00
Speaker 3: could see that she was worried about me. I'm like, no, no,
9:03
Speaker 3: don't worry. I'm always this is not a sign that
9:08
Speaker 3: you're not depressed.
9:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not having postpartum. What is it
9:14
Speaker 1: like thatsion is depression? Yeah? Yeah, I was good.
9:18
Speaker 3: That's my happy place.
9:20
Speaker 1: I think though maybe I think we spoke about this
9:23
Speaker 1: a little bit before we went live. I think, because
9:27
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe this is subconscious, but because I
9:30
Speaker 1: used to worry about what I looked like so much,
9:34
Speaker 1: because I was so all about my body for a
9:36
Speaker 1: long time and all about my appearance and what people
9:39
Speaker 1: thought of me and you know whatever creating what I
9:42
Speaker 1: thought at that time was the body that would I
9:46
Speaker 1: don't know, for God's sake, harps. But anyway, I thought
9:48
Speaker 1: people would like me more or be attracted to me,
9:51
Speaker 1: or impressed by me or something. And so I think
9:55
Speaker 1: I was so intertwined with what I looked like my identity,
10:02
Speaker 1: in my sense of self and self worth and self esteem.
10:06
Speaker 1: I embarrassingly now looking back, but it was what it was.
10:09
Speaker 1: I got so much of that through how I looked
10:12
Speaker 1: or how I thought I looked for others, and not
10:14
Speaker 1: that I don't care how I look now, like I
10:16
Speaker 1: want to be in good shock. But maybe it's a
10:19
Speaker 1: pendulum swing from that.
10:22
Speaker 3: Well, I think a lot of us grow up with
10:24
Speaker 3: that in well, we all want kind of the sense
10:28
Speaker 3: of belonging, right, we all want to belong. We all
10:31
Speaker 3: want to be liked and loved and approved of, And
10:35
Speaker 3: unfortunately there's this very high value that society places, not
10:40
Speaker 3: just society necessarily, also it could be friends, family, and
10:46
Speaker 3: other significant people in your life that they place on appearance.
10:50
Speaker 3: So and when you're young, you internalize these messages. I
10:59
Speaker 3: remember being you know, like I'm from any an Iranian background,
11:06
Speaker 3: and I think there's probably people from lots of backgrounds
11:09
Speaker 3: I can relate to this. But in Iran, like probably
11:13
Speaker 3: the top three values in Iran are education, hospitality, and beauty. Yeah,
11:23
Speaker 3: it's very high on the list, and so it's talked
11:27
Speaker 3: about a lot. And if you don't measure up to
11:32
Speaker 3: those high standards, or you think you don't, then you're
11:35
Speaker 3: gonna it's gonna feel not quite right and you're gonna
11:39
Speaker 3: start being maybe over focused on your appearance or over
11:48
Speaker 3: focused on how you don't measure up. Either way, it
11:51
Speaker 3: doesn't bode well for the future because it's it's really
11:54
Speaker 3: not one of the most important things in life.
11:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is. We do get mixed messages because
12:01
Speaker 1: at the same time, you're right, we go, well, it's
12:03
Speaker 1: you know, it's all about who you are, and it's
12:04
Speaker 1: values and all that, which is true. I know I'm
12:09
Speaker 1: saying that flippantly, but it's true. But at the same time,
12:12
Speaker 1: we do live in a world that rewards beauty.
12:17
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's very So it's like.
12:19
Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you are and even with kids,
12:23
Speaker 1: we say to little girls and little boys, are you beautiful?
12:26
Speaker 1: You are so gorgeous? Oh my god, look at you.
12:29
Speaker 1: And look at you. You're so handsome in you and
12:32
Speaker 1: everything's about how attractive they are.
12:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It's very true, and it's very hard
12:38
Speaker 3: to protect against that.
12:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:41
Speaker 3: I tried really hard with my children. Yes, to not
12:51
Speaker 3: say those types of things is like the kind of
12:53
Speaker 3: first thing or the regular thing.
12:55
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but you.
12:56
Speaker 3: Can't control what other people say. Yeah, and that's what
13:02
Speaker 3: you know, what we see is the kind of the
13:03
Speaker 3: first thing that we kind of comment on often, and
13:07
Speaker 3: that's how we.
13:07
Speaker 1: Look and think about this. If all of a sudden,
13:10
Speaker 1: and this is this was part of the problem for
13:12
Speaker 1: me because I went from being you know, this movedly
13:15
Speaker 1: obese teenager to being a very fit, very lean a
13:19
Speaker 1: teenager with a much better body than he had a
13:22
Speaker 1: year ago. Then all of a sudden, you're getting accolades
13:24
Speaker 1: and you're getting attention, and you're getting social approval, and
13:27
Speaker 1: you're getting all of a sudden, you know, there were
13:31
Speaker 1: you know, my chances of having a girlfriend when I
13:33
Speaker 1: was fourteen were minus twenty six and then by the
13:36
Speaker 1: time I was fifteen sixteen, it was not altogether zero.
13:40
Speaker 1: You know, So get a little bit of confidence and
13:43
Speaker 1: a tiny bit of social acceptance and status because now like,
13:47
Speaker 1: and this is a horrible thing to say, but this
13:49
Speaker 1: is how it felt to me. Now I'm not ugly,
13:52
Speaker 1: I'm getting noticed, right, Yeah, And the truth is I
13:56
Speaker 1: did all of a sudden my body changed, and this
13:59
Speaker 1: is a terror. It was both a great but also
14:03
Speaker 1: terrible experience. I'm more popular now. So you draw this
14:08
Speaker 1: correlation between Oh, when I looked like that, I was
14:12
Speaker 1: not that popular or noticed or accepted or approved. Now
14:17
Speaker 1: I look like this, and this has owt come ergo.
14:22
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know it was correlation or causation.
14:25
Speaker 1: I think it was causation because now I'm like, oh, well,
14:29
Speaker 1: guess what if I look pretty good, I get all
14:31
Speaker 1: these rewards. Imagine if I looked fucking amazing, and then
14:36
Speaker 1: then imagine if I look like a freak, goddamn freak,
14:40
Speaker 1: you know, And so for me, that just escalated. You're
14:45
Speaker 1: always trying to get I think, well I was. I
14:49
Speaker 1: think we're trying to resolve psychological and emotional issues with
14:52
Speaker 1: a physical, you know, some kind of physical change, and
14:56
Speaker 1: not that you not that I really understood that that age,
15:00
Speaker 1: but that's kind of because acceptance and approval and love,
15:04
Speaker 1: like you said, and connection and belonging. I mean, all
15:08
Speaker 1: of those are internal drivers, and we think we're going
15:10
Speaker 1: to meet those needs with bigger biceps or a prettier
15:14
Speaker 1: face or you know, a leader body.
15:17
Speaker 3: Yeah. I actually had a very similar experience to you.
15:20
Speaker 3: Like I was the quintessential nerd in high school and younger.
15:27
Speaker 3: So not just in the fact that I was like
15:31
Speaker 3: a good student, but like I looked like it too,
15:33
Speaker 3: Like I had a very large Diana Prince glasses. Do
15:38
Speaker 3: you know Diana Princes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the alter
15:41
Speaker 3: ego wonder Woman. I don't know if you ever watched
15:43
Speaker 3: that show in the eighties, but she had gigantic glass.
15:47
Speaker 1: Linda Carter Carter, Yeah, absolutely, I had a hard crush
15:51
Speaker 1: on Linda. I look up Linda Carter because you're too young,
15:55
Speaker 1: look up Linda Carter wonder Woman. Yeah it's fair. I
16:00
Speaker 1: might have been madly in love with Linda Catter. So yeah,
16:05
Speaker 1: I had not out of my not out of my
16:07
Speaker 1: leg at all.
16:09
Speaker 3: No one's out of your league, Craig. I had those glasses,
16:12
Speaker 3: I had braces. I was like I was. I was
16:17
Speaker 3: very skinny. I just I didn't I had my features
16:23
Speaker 3: were too big for my face. I had a very
16:25
Speaker 3: like skinny face as well, and like just very flat hair.
16:28
Speaker 3: I just did it. I mean I just was like,
16:30
Speaker 3: if you looked up nerd in the dictionary, that's what
16:32
Speaker 3: I look like. So when I had my kind of
16:39
Speaker 3: I feel like change positive change in the like if
16:42
Speaker 3: we're going to think of it as positive, which we
16:44
Speaker 3: actually shouldn't, but how I kind of viewed it when
16:48
Speaker 3: I was younger, around that seven sixteen seventeen age and
16:56
Speaker 3: I and at seventeen, I actually went from high school
16:59
Speaker 3: to university, so I had this way of completely reinventing myself. Right,
17:05
Speaker 3: nobody knew me, I the nerdy girl from high school.
17:08
Speaker 1: I was like, it's like a new chapter and you
17:11
Speaker 1: could write whatever you want.
17:13
Speaker 3: And also like I wasn't planning on like changing anything
17:16
Speaker 3: necessarily about how I how I was in the world.
17:21
Speaker 3: But what I noticed was what you noticed. It's like,
17:23
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, all these people are coming at me, yeah,
17:26
Speaker 3: and they're expressing things that I've never heard before, and
17:31
Speaker 3: they're interested in me, and they like somebody asked me
17:35
Speaker 3: out on the first day, and I was like, what
17:37
Speaker 3: is actually happening? I don't understand. So it was just like, yeah, no,
17:44
Speaker 3: it's powerful. It's powerful when you get that overt praise
17:50
Speaker 3: for something like your appearance, because then you can get
17:54
Speaker 3: really sucked into that being the important thing.
18:00
Speaker 1: And then so what is I don't know if the
18:03
Speaker 1: right question is what is the antidote or what is
18:05
Speaker 1: the solution or what is the counterbalance? But I mean,
18:11
Speaker 1: you know, like, and it's probably worse now. I think,
18:13
Speaker 1: Like I look at the kids in the gym, like
18:16
Speaker 1: where I train at four o'clock in the afternoon, it's
18:19
Speaker 1: mostly teenagers, Like, it's mostly a few young girls Jamie,
18:25
Speaker 1: my training partner's daughter, and a lot of young teenage boys.
18:31
Speaker 1: Who are.
18:34
Speaker 3: You know?
18:35
Speaker 1: I think? And I was the same or worse, but
18:38
Speaker 1: pretty obsessed. And it's on the one hand, you want
18:42
Speaker 1: kids to be fit and strong and to exercise in
18:45
Speaker 1: all of those things, which is great.
18:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can't be.
18:49
Speaker 1: Some old fuck going by the way. You know, what
18:52
Speaker 1: you look like's not as important as whether or not
18:55
Speaker 1: you're a good Yeah, they're like fuck off, Grandpa, Like
18:58
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it's because they don't care.
19:02
Speaker 1: Not that they don't care what I think. Of course
19:05
Speaker 1: they shouldn't. They don't need to. But what I mean
19:08
Speaker 1: is it's like, yeah, but I get socially rewarded for this,
19:13
Speaker 1: and that's really important. Yeah, Like, the better I look,
19:17
Speaker 1: the better life is for me on a level. And
19:20
Speaker 1: that's a kind of an awkward truth and it shouldn't
19:24
Speaker 1: be that way, and it's not that way for everybody.
19:28
Speaker 1: But look at the you know, like what's happening on
19:30
Speaker 1: social media. You look at a young attractive.
19:33
Speaker 4: Female, Yeah, she will have lots of followers because she's
19:38
Speaker 4: a young attractive female, not because she's got one hundred
19:41
Speaker 4: and forty IQ or not because she's got necessarily some
19:45
Speaker 4: amazing skill set.
19:46
Speaker 1: She might have all of that, by the way, but
19:50
Speaker 1: or if you're a young dude and you're jacked or
19:53
Speaker 1: you know, it seems that things like whether or not
19:56
Speaker 1: you're a good human, or whether or not you've got
19:57
Speaker 1: great values, whether or not you're brilliant academic, or whether
20:00
Speaker 1: or not you've got an incredible skill set doesn't matter
20:03
Speaker 1: in some areas. It doesn't matter nearly as much if
20:08
Speaker 1: we're being honest, as just what you look like and
20:11
Speaker 1: what people think of what you look like.
20:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's really complicated when, like you said,
20:19
Speaker 3: everything around you was saying it's one of the most
20:22
Speaker 3: important things.
20:24
Speaker 1: Yes, what about you though? In growing up where you
20:27
Speaker 1: grew up where you said, Like, it's funny because you
20:30
Speaker 1: said one of the priorities in Iran was like beauty,
20:34
Speaker 1: which I understand. I spoke to my mom the other
20:37
Speaker 1: day and she said, what did you She's asked me
20:40
Speaker 1: what I did? And I said, I just met with
20:42
Speaker 1: someone this morning. And said, oh, and i'd met and
20:44
Speaker 1: I'd had a coffee with you and said, oh, who's that?
20:46
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, lady, who does my You know,
20:48
Speaker 1: she's like this Iranian American psych she lives in a
20:51
Speaker 1: She goes, Oh, my god, Iranian women are so beautiful.
20:55
Speaker 1: That's my mum. I'm like, really, she goes, oh, yeah,
20:59
Speaker 1: Iranian women amazing, Like there's this global reputation for yeah,
21:05
Speaker 1: for that. And so when you said that one of
21:07
Speaker 1: the values is beauty, it's like, yeah, I And of
21:11
Speaker 1: course there's nothing wrong with being beautiful or handsome or whatever.
21:14
Speaker 1: Of course it's great. But I guess it's about maybe
21:19
Speaker 1: the relationship that we have with beauty what it meant.
21:23
Speaker 3: I mean, when I was growing up, I resented it
21:28
Speaker 3: because I didn't match that idea. So I didn't I
21:34
Speaker 3: the focus on it. I didn't understand it because at
21:36
Speaker 3: that age, I didn't understand that was a high value
21:39
Speaker 3: of my culture. Like I didn't understand why that was
21:42
Speaker 3: always the first thing people said to you. Yes, you
21:45
Speaker 3: know something about how you looked, or oh you lost
21:48
Speaker 3: weight or oh you gain weight, or oh this or that.
21:50
Speaker 3: And I know that that's not just part of Iranian culture.
21:53
Speaker 3: That's I hear this from so many you know, different
21:57
Speaker 3: families and how people are grown up, Like it's literally
22:00
Speaker 3: the first thing will people comment on. So I think
22:05
Speaker 3: at a really early age, I had this kind of
22:07
Speaker 3: sense of I don't think this is right. And so
22:12
Speaker 3: when things changed for me in terms of appearance and
22:16
Speaker 3: I was getting kind of more approval in that area,
22:19
Speaker 3: I still had this sense of, like, this isn't the
22:25
Speaker 3: most important thing because I'm not a different person like
22:29
Speaker 3: on the inside. Yes, So I think Actually it took
22:39
Speaker 3: me a while before I really realized even like why
22:44
Speaker 3: my family and my family's friends behaved that way, because
22:49
Speaker 3: I actually resented it for a long time, like I
22:52
Speaker 3: thought this so wrong for people to like think that
22:55
Speaker 3: this is appropriate to make comments about me or anybody's
23:00
Speaker 3: appearance or body, and then I actually saw a documentary
23:05
Speaker 3: on it was about I think it was about plastic
23:10
Speaker 3: surgery or something like that, and how there are certain
23:14
Speaker 3: places in the world where it's more prevalent, and one
23:17
Speaker 3: of them was Iran, and that the way that they
23:19
Speaker 3: viewed it was like with pride, you know, because and
23:23
Speaker 3: they like, like, you know, in some places, like you
23:26
Speaker 3: want to hide that you have work done, but in
23:29
Speaker 3: Iran it's like, no, you want to show that you've
23:32
Speaker 3: had it done, because like you're you're looking for this
23:36
Speaker 3: kind of ideal, kind of perfection. And I was like, oh,
23:40
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that that's how they viewed it, And
23:45
Speaker 3: that's the understanding just helped me resent it less, not
23:49
Speaker 3: as like a not overall like I still don't think
23:53
Speaker 3: that that's a healthy way of being, but like resent
23:55
Speaker 3: it from the people from that culture who were making
23:57
Speaker 3: those comments, because that's where they came from, and that's
24:01
Speaker 3: what they've internalized. That's that's where their belief systems came from.
24:05
Speaker 3: But I think what's really important is to question all
24:09
Speaker 3: of those internalized beliefs and things messages that you've grown
24:13
Speaker 3: up with as you get older, because what's really important
24:18
Speaker 3: is what we're actually wanting, which is underneath that, which
24:24
Speaker 3: is that belonging in that connection and that those positive
24:30
Speaker 3: relationships with people. Yeah, that's what we're really wanting.
24:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like when we talk about goals, we talk
24:37
Speaker 1: about the what and the why. You go, well, what
24:40
Speaker 1: I want is I want to be attractive, But what
24:42
Speaker 1: you really want is the why. Like, my reason to
24:45
Speaker 1: be attractive is because I think that being attractive or
24:50
Speaker 1: losing weight or whatever, building muscle or whatever is a
24:54
Speaker 1: conduit to the thing that I want, which is love. Connection,
24:58
Speaker 1: like approval, tension, approval, all of those things. So how
25:06
Speaker 1: do we how do we like, does identity matter, like
25:13
Speaker 1: we we the sense of self that I have or
25:16
Speaker 1: you have that I think my identity I don't know,
25:23
Speaker 1: like I care. I mean if I didn't say, if
25:27
Speaker 1: I said I don't care about what people think of me,
25:29
Speaker 1: that would be a lie.
25:30
Speaker 3: I'm not.
25:31
Speaker 1: I'm not obsessed with it. I'm not wildly insecure about
25:34
Speaker 1: it like I once was. Like I care, of course,
25:37
Speaker 1: of course, and I can still get my feelings hurt,
25:40
Speaker 1: and I can still get upset and all of those things.
25:45
Speaker 1: But is it worth thinking about as us as individuals?
25:52
Speaker 1: Where our sense of self and identity comes from. Is
25:56
Speaker 1: that is that? Is that a worthwhile kind of ecological
26:01
Speaker 1: rabbit hole to go down?
26:04
Speaker 3: For sure? I think we should we I think I
26:07
Speaker 3: see a lot of people who come you know, as
26:09
Speaker 3: like I'm for listeners who don't know. I'm not sure
26:13
Speaker 3: if we said, but I'm a clinical psychologist, so I
26:15
Speaker 3: see people on an individual basis. A lot of people
26:18
Speaker 3: come in with issues around self worth, right, A lot
26:23
Speaker 3: of people. And one of the things that we do
26:25
Speaker 3: together that they may not have done at all before,
26:31
Speaker 3: or have maybe done it a little bit but not enough,
26:35
Speaker 3: is really question where their values and beliefs come from, right,
26:40
Speaker 3: and whether they want to have those values and beliefs still, yes,
26:45
Speaker 3: because we grow up with you know, we're all brainwashed, right,
26:51
Speaker 3: and we're like, we grow up in a particular family,
26:55
Speaker 3: in a particular society, and we're not born with all
26:58
Speaker 3: of these ideas. We learn them over time, and some
27:05
Speaker 3: of those messages that we get are going to help
27:09
Speaker 3: us develop a strong identity and a healthy identity and
27:13
Speaker 3: others may not. And what can happen as we just
27:20
Speaker 3: well as a children, we just internalize whatever ideas are
27:22
Speaker 3: significant others in part to us without question because we
27:28
Speaker 3: trust that that's what they're telling us and what they're
27:32
Speaker 3: showing us is right. But we can go through life
27:36
Speaker 3: and never question that.
27:39
Speaker 1: Well, I think one of the interesting yeah, I agree
27:42
Speaker 1: with all that. We talk about this a bit here,
27:44
Speaker 1: like when you think about your current beliefs and then
27:48
Speaker 1: you think about when you chose them. Yeah, that's people go,
27:52
Speaker 1: what when did you choose that? When did you when
27:56
Speaker 1: did you decide that that was true for you? Well?
27:58
Speaker 1: That was you know, that was the right belief And
28:02
Speaker 1: people like, well what, because we don't. We essentially just adopt,
28:08
Speaker 1: like you said, the people in our world that we
28:10
Speaker 1: listen to, that we respect that we're around, maybe even
28:14
Speaker 1: some of the people we don't fucking like, but we're
28:16
Speaker 1: around them. They tell me I'm shit, you're shit, You're worthless.
28:21
Speaker 1: You tell me that a thousand times, and I'm a child.
28:25
Speaker 1: Well I believe it now because that's the messaging I'm getting.
28:29
Speaker 1: And I never chose to have that belief. I just
28:32
Speaker 1: have that belief as a byproduct, as a terrible byproduct
28:36
Speaker 1: of a horrible situation, or as you said, as you said,
28:40
Speaker 1: you know, some of them serve us and positively, and
28:43
Speaker 1: some of them don't. But it's like, yeah, when do
28:47
Speaker 1: we do It's almost like when do we do a
28:50
Speaker 1: stock take on our own beliefs? When do we kind
28:54
Speaker 1: of put them up on the metaphoric hoist like the
28:56
Speaker 1: car and the garage and walk around that belief and
29:00
Speaker 1: kick the tires and fucking lift up the hood and go,
29:03
Speaker 1: I don't know if this works for me, Like is
29:05
Speaker 1: this actually? Do do I believe in this? And if
29:08
Speaker 1: I do, why do I believe it? Where did the
29:10
Speaker 1: belief come from?
29:12
Speaker 3: Yeah?
29:13
Speaker 1: Is there any chance that this belief could be bullshit?
29:17
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that you can do that at any
29:19
Speaker 3: time in your life, Like it's never too late, but
29:21
Speaker 3: I think as early as possible. And maybe, and you know,
29:25
Speaker 3: probably we should in the way that we raise our children.
29:29
Speaker 3: We should be asking questions rather than expecting our kids
29:37
Speaker 3: to take on everything that we believe and everything that
29:40
Speaker 3: we value. We should be supporting like critical analysis, you know,
29:48
Speaker 3: from a very early age.
29:50
Speaker 1: So let me ask you, Like you spoke about self
29:54
Speaker 1: worth and then you spoke about belief, but the kicking
29:57
Speaker 1: off point was identity. You can so identity, self worth
30:02
Speaker 1: and belief, how do they intersect? Like what is the
30:05
Speaker 1: relationship between between those three things? So identity, self worth,
30:12
Speaker 1: and belief, Like maybe start with could you just define
30:17
Speaker 1: self worth? Like what is in just your terms? Is
30:21
Speaker 1: that just how I see me?
30:24
Speaker 3: Yes, it's the belief that you have about yourself and
30:28
Speaker 3: the value that you have that is not dependent solely
30:36
Speaker 3: on the approval of others. Rather for the beliefs of
30:39
Speaker 3: others about you. One of the really interesting things that
30:45
Speaker 3: I've come across in terms of research and this is
30:49
Speaker 3: and the reason I've come across it is because it
30:52
Speaker 3: was done by one of my professors at Emory named
30:59
Speaker 3: doctor Marshall do Go, along with the colleague named Robin
31:02
Speaker 3: five Ish, and they did these they did these experiments
31:10
Speaker 3: around storytelling. So what they actually found was the more
31:16
Speaker 3: that families told stories about their history, not just their
31:23
Speaker 3: own immediate history, but of generations before. The more that
31:31
Speaker 3: the children knew those stories and were able to even
31:36
Speaker 3: detail the stories themselves, the better their identity. The stronger
31:43
Speaker 3: their identity, the better their self esteem, the stronger their
31:47
Speaker 3: resilience was because they developed an identity that was more
31:56
Speaker 3: than just about themselves and even just about their immediate family.
32:01
Speaker 3: It was like this intergenerational identity.
32:05
Speaker 1: Yes, wow, yes.
32:07
Speaker 3: So interesting and very robust results. So they came up
32:14
Speaker 3: with these kinds of questions that aren't actually that complicated,
32:18
Speaker 3: like to start with, like do you know, for instance,
32:23
Speaker 3: where your mother was born? Do you know where your
32:26
Speaker 3: father was born? Do you know how they met? Do
32:28
Speaker 3: you know how your grandparents met? Do you know you
32:32
Speaker 3: know what were some of the challenges that you know,
32:35
Speaker 3: the people in your family experienced, you know, one, two,
32:40
Speaker 3: three generations ago, what were the outcomes of those what
32:44
Speaker 3: were their personality characteristics? And the more that they can
32:48
Speaker 3: that children can actually not only like know that information,
32:53
Speaker 3: but also relate themselves into it. So for instance, oh,
32:59
Speaker 3: I'm like that characteristic of my grandfather that sounds a
33:02
Speaker 3: lot like me, or like that's something that I would
33:06
Speaker 3: have done, or like what I think I would do
33:08
Speaker 3: in that situation. The more that they feel that connection
33:13
Speaker 3: and that belonging that goes far, far deeper. Yeah, and
33:19
Speaker 3: that really can create this really strong sense of identity
33:22
Speaker 3: that goes beyond you know, these superficial things that we
33:26
Speaker 3: get inundated with by a social media society or even
33:31
Speaker 3: sometimes within our immediate families.
33:34
Speaker 1: One of the I mean like it or not an
33:37
Speaker 1: inevitability of the human experiences that are. Other people are
33:40
Speaker 1: going to think stuff about us, good stuff, bad stuff.
33:43
Speaker 1: Other people are going to have opinions, just like we
33:46
Speaker 1: have opinions. You know, you walk down the street, you
33:48
Speaker 1: see someone, doesn't mean you're a bad human, but you're
33:51
Speaker 1: always you already have an impression like our brains, our
33:55
Speaker 1: impression formation machines, you know, and it might just be
33:59
Speaker 1: trying to tech danger, or it might be curiosity. But
34:03
Speaker 1: you know, we're always detecting and assuming and labeling and inferring,
34:07
Speaker 1: and sometimes we're wildly right or wildly wrong. But knowing that,
34:15
Speaker 1: I feel like some people move through the world worrying
34:20
Speaker 1: about worrying about what other people think of them and not.
34:25
Speaker 1: Now let's talk about let's differentiate that between between that
34:29
Speaker 1: and my research, which is having an understanding of how
34:34
Speaker 1: people perceive and experience us, you know, with matter accuracy,
34:39
Speaker 1: like being able to know what it's like to be
34:41
Speaker 1: around you, which is used the right way. It's a
34:44
Speaker 1: social kind of superpower and a personal tool that we
34:48
Speaker 1: can use. Right. So there's that which is just knowledge
34:50
Speaker 1: and awareness which can be used positively. But at the
34:53
Speaker 1: other end of the scale, there's this worrying myself sick
34:58
Speaker 1: about what the I in the second office down the
35:02
Speaker 1: corridor thinks of me, or my boss thinks of me
35:05
Speaker 1: or that whoever? Like, how do we because it's not
35:10
Speaker 1: like we want to move through life not giving a
35:12
Speaker 1: fuck about anyone else. Yeah, because we want to be
35:15
Speaker 1: you know, all the things that we want to be
35:17
Speaker 1: empathetic and kind and awareness and have a bigger than
35:19
Speaker 1: us awareness and all those nice things which we do.
35:23
Speaker 1: But you don't want to spend life being worried about
35:26
Speaker 1: what people think you, right, So can you speak to that?
35:29
Speaker 3: Yeah? I love that topic because I think because I
35:32
Speaker 3: know that you know, you're the expert in self awareness.
35:34
Speaker 3: And is there such a thing as too much? Yes?
35:39
Speaker 3: Ken of you know, like there's a functional part, which
35:41
Speaker 3: is what you're talking about in researching How do people
35:44
Speaker 3: experience me in the room? What impact am I having
35:47
Speaker 3: on other people? Can I tell if it's you know,
35:51
Speaker 3: helpful or hindering me? And what can I do about it?
35:54
Speaker 1: Yeah?
35:55
Speaker 3: And then there's the dysfunctional self awareness which I see
35:59
Speaker 3: all the time. You know, when people come and see me,
36:02
Speaker 3: it's often related to how other how is I perceived?
36:08
Speaker 3: Worry about, rumination about and over analyzing about what was said,
36:14
Speaker 3: how it was said, Did I make a mistake? Do
36:16
Speaker 3: they still like me? Will they still will they still
36:19
Speaker 3: like me? Are they going to reject me? Are they
36:21
Speaker 3: going to abandon me? Pretty much anything that can be
36:26
Speaker 3: functional can be dysfunctional as well. So it's like, well,
36:29
Speaker 3: how do you know when it's going awry? And often
36:36
Speaker 3: that's through I guess, really knowing what are your behaviors?
36:42
Speaker 3: You know, like if we're, for instance, we're overly relying
36:45
Speaker 3: on other people's approval and we're anxious and fearful about
36:51
Speaker 3: being judged or rejected or abandoned, that can lead to
36:55
Speaker 3: dysfunctional people pleasing behaviors for yeah, and those are things
36:59
Speaker 3: that you can like see and notice and monitor within yourself,
37:02
Speaker 3: like what are you actually doing? And is that helpful
37:13
Speaker 3: or is that unhelpful? Is that healthy or is that unhealthy?
37:18
Speaker 3: Is that functional or is that dysfunctional? And I think
37:22
Speaker 3: one of the main, main, main things and the most
37:24
Speaker 3: important thing in all of this is that can you
37:26
Speaker 3: evaluate all of this without judging yourself?
37:31
Speaker 1: I mean the problem, the problem or the challenge in
37:35
Speaker 1: doing that is that you know, we because we're because
37:40
Speaker 1: it's us we're thinking about and talking about. It's completely subjective,
37:44
Speaker 1: you know, and it's trying, and we're always we're always
37:48
Speaker 1: interpreting what someone else is doing through our own lens out,
37:54
Speaker 1: so we don't know what their attention is. We don't
37:55
Speaker 1: know what that means, you know, sometimes we do. But
37:58
Speaker 1: like an example of this, so I don't want to
38:00
Speaker 1: throw her under the bus. But the other day, so
38:05
Speaker 1: I think it was on the weekend, I trained a
38:10
Speaker 1: young lady that I've helped a bit ash who who
38:14
Speaker 1: was on the podcast, and she's lost seventy kilos and
38:17
Speaker 1: she's gone from really unhealthy to really healthy, and she's
38:21
Speaker 1: changed her life and she feels and functions better and
38:23
Speaker 1: life better and all this suff right, And she was
38:28
Speaker 1: in the gym training and I took like a ten
38:30
Speaker 1: second video of her training, and I thought, my listeners
38:34
Speaker 1: will maybe be interested to see here's the girl that's
38:37
Speaker 1: lost the seventy k's and you know, right, so I
38:40
Speaker 1: put up the video and it had twenty five thousand
38:42
Speaker 1: views in twenty four hours, right, So I wouldn't call that,
38:49
Speaker 1: you know, what do you call it viral? But it
38:52
Speaker 1: went pretty well, right, And All of the comments were good,
38:56
Speaker 1: except one person asked a question which I didn't think
38:59
Speaker 1: was negative. I think it was a genuine question, and
39:02
Speaker 1: Ash sent me a message because she'd thought that that
39:07
Speaker 1: person was being negative, and I'm like, it's so funny
39:10
Speaker 1: because the overwhelming response was, oh my god, you're amazing.
39:15
Speaker 1: That's fucking great, well done, incredible, like it was all good,
39:21
Speaker 1: all love, all positive. Then one person asked a question
39:25
Speaker 1: which was really just a question, and then she sent
39:29
Speaker 1: me a message, Oh, what's with what's with the hate
39:32
Speaker 1: or something? And I go, what what? I'm like, dude,
39:37
Speaker 1: you know, but it's funny that. And I've done the
39:40
Speaker 1: same thing. I've done gigs where I got overwhelmingly good
39:43
Speaker 1: feedback and one person who didn't love me, but the majority,
39:48
Speaker 1: you know, it was somewhere between pretty good and really
39:50
Speaker 1: really well received. And one person got their nose out
39:54
Speaker 1: of joint because something I did or said or a
39:56
Speaker 1: story and they came up and let me know. And
39:58
Speaker 1: it was literally one out five hundred people, And all
40:01
Speaker 1: I thought about was the one. Yeah, the four ninety
40:05
Speaker 1: nine had no positive impact. It was all about the one.
40:08
Speaker 1: And I drive home being angry and frustrated, and because
40:12
Speaker 1: one person didn't like me. What the fuck is that? Doctor?
40:16
Speaker 1: What is that?
40:18
Speaker 3: Oh, there's so many things. I think it hurts.
40:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, but why do we care so much about the one?
40:27
Speaker 1: Why does that stranger that will never meet again? Why
40:31
Speaker 1: do we allow them to have? You know, it's like
40:34
Speaker 1: when people, you know, when people go and people have
40:36
Speaker 1: said this to me, they go, oh, you make me
40:38
Speaker 1: feel like that, Like, why don't make you feel? That's
40:41
Speaker 1: just how you feel? And what I said might have
40:45
Speaker 1: been the you know, the starting off point. It might
40:48
Speaker 1: have been the stimulus. But the reason that I didn't
40:52
Speaker 1: make you is because I said it to a lot
40:54
Speaker 1: of other people and they didn't feel what you feel.
40:56
Speaker 1: So you created that. But I've done that myself where
41:00
Speaker 1: I get myself into a tease and it's it's definitely me,
41:03
Speaker 1: that's the problem.
41:05
Speaker 3: Well, we are, I mean, our brains are kind of
41:07
Speaker 3: primed to notice the negative, the unsafe. Yeah, so that's
41:15
Speaker 3: I guess we have that vulnerability already just being human
41:19
Speaker 3: that we're looking for threats in the environment. And I
41:23
Speaker 3: guess you know, we're not facing a lot of major
41:30
Speaker 3: threats to our livelihood, you know, in terms of life
41:34
Speaker 3: and death, but so the threats are more like too
41:37
Speaker 3: belonging to connection, to approval and that so it sticks out,
41:44
Speaker 3: sticks out, and it's almost like you have to train
41:47
Speaker 3: your brain. It is actually not almost like it is
41:50
Speaker 3: like you have to train your brain to notice and
41:54
Speaker 3: appreciate and elevate the good things in life, the positive messages,
42:03
Speaker 3: the healthy, the healthy things, the things to be grateful for.
42:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tiffany and Cook, I've got a question for you
42:12
Speaker 1: in this steady on, steady on, old horses, hold your horses.
42:19
Speaker 1: Like we've spoken a bit about this, because you've been
42:21
Speaker 1: without opening the door wide. It's just opened a little
42:24
Speaker 1: crack where you've been let down and hurt and mistreated
42:27
Speaker 1: and a whole lot of shit by people, as have
42:29
Speaker 1: many people. But we're talking about you. What when it
42:34
Speaker 1: comes down to you. But also you've had a bit
42:37
Speaker 1: of a spiritual revolution and revelation lately, and you've kind of,
42:42
Speaker 1: you know, and we've spoken about this, you've energetically and
42:46
Speaker 1: perhaps spiritually and emotionally and psychologically turned a bit of
42:49
Speaker 1: a corner. Blah blah blah all of that, which I
42:52
Speaker 1: do mean to say that flippantly, but that's where you're at.
42:55
Speaker 1: So my question to you, and maybe to you also literally,
42:58
Speaker 1: and is what what's your criteria for trust, like with
43:04
Speaker 1: people that you like?
43:06
Speaker 2: You know?
43:07
Speaker 1: It's like my metaphor is like I know a lot
43:10
Speaker 1: of people, but I don't trust a lot of people.
43:13
Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean I distrust the majority. It just
43:17
Speaker 1: means like, for me to truly trust someone, it takes
43:20
Speaker 1: a bit because I've had and there's no self pity
43:23
Speaker 1: in here, because I'm just one of many. But I've
43:25
Speaker 1: had a lot of people fuck me over a lot
43:28
Speaker 1: and backstab and bitch and do some horrible shit, people
43:31
Speaker 1: that I really loved and trusted and valued. So for
43:34
Speaker 1: me to actually really trust, it's not a quick process.
43:39
Speaker 1: What about you? What about let's start with you, Tiff.
43:42
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a really good question. And I feel like.
43:48
Speaker 1: I'll remind the viewers that Tiff is the girl who
43:51
Speaker 1: wears the baseball cap that says give us a hug
43:53
Speaker 1: and the T shirt that says fuck off.
43:54
Speaker 2: Though I think that I think I'm still in the
44:00
Speaker 2: middle of an enormous amount of processing of that shift
44:05
Speaker 2: that I experienced recently. I'm still in the middle of
44:09
Speaker 2: that and in the middle of that. So in this
44:12
Speaker 2: whole conversation. I've been listening and thinking and processing and
44:16
Speaker 2: of everything you've been saying that relates to kind of this.
44:20
Speaker 2: But I feel like maybe right now I'm learning to
44:24
Speaker 2: observe who I am around people, and because it's a
44:32
Speaker 2: me thing, like I identified a long time ago, trust
44:34
Speaker 2: was a me thing, not a them thing, my ability
44:37
Speaker 2: to feel safe in the world. And so I think
44:41
Speaker 2: that's what I watch now. I watch who I am
44:44
Speaker 2: and how I am and how I feel, and then
44:48
Speaker 2: I go from there. I said to one of the
44:50
Speaker 2: clients in my coaching group this week. I was having
44:54
Speaker 2: a one on one chat with her, and I said
44:58
Speaker 2: that I was I am so extremely grateful for you,
45:03
Speaker 2: because I feel like now I've popped out the other
45:06
Speaker 2: side of a long, funky, weird time that I didn't
45:11
Speaker 2: know I was in the middle of. Where I feel
45:14
Speaker 2: like my perception is, you must have fucking had a
45:17
Speaker 2: shitty version of me that you would have been experiencing
45:21
Speaker 2: a lot of the time, and you obviously could see it,
45:23
Speaker 2: and for some reason that I will never understand, you
45:28
Speaker 2: just stood by and like you knew, and I was like,
45:32
Speaker 2: I don't know how you knew, but I needed someone
45:37
Speaker 2: to do that and like, wow, so thanks, but yeah,
45:43
Speaker 2: I'm still processing how I how that's all coming together
45:47
Speaker 2: for me? So good question.
45:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see, I mean, but it's interesting, like I
45:53
Speaker 1: see in you. I see there's a few people in
45:57
Speaker 1: my life that have struggled with stuff. I'll give her
46:01
Speaker 1: a shout out because I never do. Another lady that
46:06
Speaker 1: her name is Fi, who you know, who's who's you
46:09
Speaker 1: know had challenges and struggles with things. And but I
46:13
Speaker 1: see potential and I see possibility and I see like
46:20
Speaker 1: real but under the because we've all got days where
46:24
Speaker 1: we're not our best selves, right, and I'm the same.
46:28
Speaker 1: Some days I get to the end of the day
46:29
Speaker 1: and I'm like, excuse my language, doc, I can say
46:31
Speaker 1: it in front tip, but I was a count today,
46:34
Speaker 1: not all day. But I'm like, I'm better than that.
46:37
Speaker 1: But you know, I see in her, I see in you.
46:40
Speaker 1: I see in people the potential and the good. And
46:44
Speaker 1: I also sometimes I'll meet people where I'm like, there's
46:47
Speaker 1: a whole lot of darkness going on there. I don't
46:49
Speaker 1: really want to get involved, you know.
46:51
Speaker 3: But and I think my question, how did you?
46:54
Speaker 2: How did you?
46:55
Speaker 1: I don't know I because I think this sounds weird, right,
46:59
Speaker 1: and this is this is very unscientific, but science plays.
47:05
Speaker 1: Science is good with some things, but not everything right.
47:08
Speaker 1: And I intuitively instinctively know things about people that I
47:15
Speaker 1: can't explain, and I don't always get it right, but
47:17
Speaker 1: I often get it right. And I think part of
47:19
Speaker 1: that is, like I feel like I've said this before
47:24
Speaker 1: and it sounds weird, but I feel like we have
47:26
Speaker 1: an access to a kind of intelligence that we didn't
47:29
Speaker 1: really earn or deserve. And I don't know where it
47:32
Speaker 1: comes from, whether or not it's a subconscious wisdom or
47:35
Speaker 1: some kind of fucking divine insight or I don't know,
47:39
Speaker 1: but there has been many times, and I could give
47:42
Speaker 1: I could give at least a hundred examples of times
47:44
Speaker 1: in my life where I've known something that really protected
47:49
Speaker 1: me or really saved me, and nobody taught me. I
47:52
Speaker 1: never learned it. It wasn't as a result of another
47:55
Speaker 1: experience I had, you know. And I just think that
47:58
Speaker 1: I think, like I I have an innate sense with
48:01
Speaker 1: a lot of people about whether or not they are
48:04
Speaker 1: This sounds bad, but whether not investing time and energy
48:07
Speaker 1: in them is a good investment. And I don't mean
48:10
Speaker 1: as a potential return on investment. I just mean they're
48:14
Speaker 1: worth it. You know. I had a guy last week.
48:17
Speaker 1: I won't say his name because I don't want to
48:18
Speaker 1: embarrass him. He's in my mentoring group that just finished
48:23
Speaker 1: and he had his one on one mentoring session with me,
48:26
Speaker 1: and there was just unfinished business and it's just like
48:29
Speaker 1: I didn't want to just go see you. So anyway,
48:32
Speaker 1: I made an arrangement with him, and he really needs
48:36
Speaker 1: help and I really don't have the time. My days
48:39
Speaker 1: are mental and I just went fuck it, and so
48:45
Speaker 1: I made four appointments for the next four weeks with him.
48:49
Speaker 1: And I don't say this to sound good or bad.
48:50
Speaker 1: I say it just because it's relevant to this. You know,
48:53
Speaker 1: no cost know anything, and I can't do this, you know,
48:56
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but for everyone, of course, and he's like,
48:59
Speaker 1: why are you doing this? Like he was crying, and
49:02
Speaker 1: he goes, why are you doing this? I go, do
49:04
Speaker 1: you need help? And he goes yes. I go, well,
49:05
Speaker 1: that's why that's it. I got to you know, it's
49:08
Speaker 1: like it's it doesn't and I think that I'm banging on,
49:13
Speaker 1: but I think, you know, and sometimes I'm selfish, but
49:16
Speaker 1: I think you know when we talk about that that
49:18
Speaker 1: model that I've spoken about that starts with self reflection
49:21
Speaker 1: and it's self awareness and then goes through self regulation
49:24
Speaker 1: and then self actualization and it ends up at self transcendence,
49:28
Speaker 1: which for me is like that intersection of purpose and
49:32
Speaker 1: spirituality and fulfillment and you know where because I know
49:38
Speaker 1: when I am all about me, which is very easy
49:41
Speaker 1: because I'm an only child, and I can be selfish,
49:44
Speaker 1: but I unequivocally have data that tells me the more
49:47
Speaker 1: selfish I am, the worse my life is, and the
49:50
Speaker 1: more generous I am to a point, you know, you
49:53
Speaker 1: can't be all things to all people, but the better
49:56
Speaker 1: that my life goes. So what, I don't know how
50:00
Speaker 1: the fuck we got there? What about you? Don What
50:03
Speaker 1: about you? And trust? And you opening? Because I feel
50:06
Speaker 1: like I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to say
50:08
Speaker 1: it because I'm in a fucking roll. I feel like
50:11
Speaker 1: you are quite reserved. I don't know how often you
50:14
Speaker 1: open the door, like even with me, and we've had
50:17
Speaker 1: a few copies and it's like we get on. Well,
50:19
Speaker 1: there's no problem. Like I like you, I think you
50:22
Speaker 1: like me. We have a good connection. But I feel like, yeah,
50:27
Speaker 1: I don't think the door's been open opened. You know,
50:29
Speaker 1: it's been opened a bit. But I feel like with you,
50:32
Speaker 1: you're you're there's not This is going to sound wrong
50:36
Speaker 1: because it's not in an insincere way, you know, person
50:38
Speaker 1: and persona. I think there's there's the professional public you,
50:45
Speaker 1: and sometimes I just want to mess up your hair
50:47
Speaker 1: and pull back the Lilian curtains. See what, I just
50:50
Speaker 1: want to mess up you wipe off your lipstick and
50:52
Speaker 1: pull back the Liian curtain.
50:55
Speaker 3: Oh look, I don't I completely agree with that assessment,
50:58
Speaker 3: but I completely under stand why you said.
51:01
Speaker 1: Yes.
51:02
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm a different person professionally and personally. However,
51:09
Speaker 3: I do think that there's a professional stance, yes, right
51:16
Speaker 3: with clients.
51:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a clinical psychologist, so you can't get on
51:20
Speaker 1: here a dickhead light, Tiff and I well, yeah.
51:22
Speaker 3: Okay, so yes, so there is some of that, but
51:27
Speaker 3: you're right now, I am in a personal way, I
51:30
Speaker 3: am more reserved, so I don't I'm not an oversharer.
51:38
Speaker 3: I won't tell you everything up front.
51:42
Speaker 1: The opposite of the opposite of me yet.
51:44
Speaker 3: Well, maybe yes, it's possible, Yeah you possibly, Yeah, you're
51:52
Speaker 3: definitely more open than me. Yeah, I think trust is
51:56
Speaker 3: a thing. Yeah, I've had, Yeah, I've had people in
52:00
Speaker 3: my life and I'm not going to say major events necessarily,
52:03
Speaker 3: not like super super significant, but like if you tell
52:10
Speaker 3: everybody everything and they're not trustworthy and then they take
52:16
Speaker 3: that and they do something that you're not expecting or
52:21
Speaker 3: is hurtful or is you know, just you know, like
52:25
Speaker 3: when you've been fucked over by somebody, and it can
52:28
Speaker 3: be really small. But for me, because I'm like, if
52:33
Speaker 3: someone tells me something, I'm a vault Like that's my
52:36
Speaker 3: job too, write like, but like it's not going anywhere,
52:40
Speaker 3: like you can trust, Like the trust being trustworthy is
52:43
Speaker 3: like part of my identity. Yes, so it's hard for
52:47
Speaker 3: me to understand sometimes when other people aren't like that.
52:53
Speaker 3: And so I don't have that expectation for people to
52:56
Speaker 3: be as good at it as I am. But therefore
53:00
Speaker 3: they're not going to get as much until I do
53:03
Speaker 3: have that expectation, like until I know that they are yes, yes,
53:06
Speaker 3: And honestly, there's probably not a lot of people that
53:09
Speaker 3: are mmmm. So you know, I'm probably like on the
53:15
Speaker 3: vulnerability scale, like not super high. I'm not Brene Brown
53:20
Speaker 3: but I related to or you, but I related to
53:24
Speaker 3: what she said about vulnerability, and I agree that you
53:28
Speaker 3: that it's important. I obviously every person that comes to
53:32
Speaker 3: see me has shown vulnerability, right, yes, And so that's
53:37
Speaker 3: why I actually respect everyone that comes to see me
53:43
Speaker 3: so much, because I know the courage it takes.
53:47
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you're being vulnerable right now. You're being
53:50
Speaker 1: vulnerable right now because you're talking about how you are
53:52
Speaker 1: and you're talking to thousands of people. So yeah, you know, toof,
53:57
Speaker 1: I was just thinking something. Then identify can articulate this properly,
54:00
Speaker 1: But I was thinking there were times like do you
54:04
Speaker 1: remember when you first started kind of you got on board,
54:10
Speaker 1: you know, working consistently with me as a paid gig
54:15
Speaker 1: working on Obviously you got your own business and your
54:18
Speaker 1: own show and all that, but you started working with me,
54:21
Speaker 1: and then I needed a certain commitment from you. And
54:25
Speaker 1: remember it freaked you out because you're a little bit
54:27
Speaker 1: commitment phobic. And there was a period like there was
54:30
Speaker 1: a honeymoon period and then you felt a bit like
54:33
Speaker 1: there was it got a bit messy for a while, right,
54:37
Speaker 1: and then we had a talk and it's like you
54:39
Speaker 1: were I don't know, there was a few lumps and
54:42
Speaker 1: bumps and it all sorted out. But then over time
54:47
Speaker 1: it's like you and I almost have had this almost
54:50
Speaker 1: like dad daughter relationship, right despite what other people think, Hey,
54:55
Speaker 1: everyone never been anything right, no right, despite all the
55:01
Speaker 1: people that go, are you and if I go, no,
55:03
Speaker 1: never have been and no disrespect to TIF, never will
55:07
Speaker 1: be all good? Right, more like dad and daughter that
55:11
Speaker 1: don't get on sometimes. Right. But I think I think
55:15
Speaker 1: sometimes what you did was because I think you couldn't
55:19
Speaker 1: believe that I was just there for you and I
55:23
Speaker 1: just cared about you with no agenda, and so you
55:27
Speaker 1: would push back to test it. And I could see
55:31
Speaker 1: when you're being like a momentary spoilt brat. You weren't really,
55:36
Speaker 1: but you're like you're being at times a little bit
55:40
Speaker 1: of hard work, and I'm like, yeah, I'm not going anywhere.
55:42
Speaker 1: You can throw your fucking toys out of the cot.
55:44
Speaker 1: I'm not going anywhere. Yep, I'm still Yep. You're shitting
55:47
Speaker 1: me today. You're a pain in the ass for ten minutes,
55:50
Speaker 1: but I'm still going to be here and you can
55:53
Speaker 1: try to fuck it up and you can test me
55:55
Speaker 1: and see if I'm like all the other fucking men
55:57
Speaker 1: that have let you down. I'm just going to be here.
56:00
Speaker 1: And by the way, I don't want anything. I don't
56:01
Speaker 1: want your money, don't want your body, don't want to
56:03
Speaker 1: get in your pants. It's all good, you know. And
56:06
Speaker 1: that I think because other than your dad, I don't
56:09
Speaker 1: know that you ever had or maybe your uncle as well,
56:12
Speaker 1: that you get on well with, but too many men
56:14
Speaker 1: that just didn't want anything from you in that way.
56:17
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And this is a huge shift that
56:21
Speaker 2: I had in India that I resolved and feel different from.
56:26
Speaker 2: And that was identifying and verbalizing that I didn't have
56:31
Speaker 2: the ability to keep myself safe. So the trust stuff
56:34
Speaker 2: was down to me. I can't be trusted. I'd a
56:37
Speaker 2: mate that used to always so you'd be all right,
56:39
Speaker 2: you just punch anyone in the face, And I'm like,
56:41
Speaker 2: you don't get trauma, you don't get dissociation, you don't
56:45
Speaker 2: get it because that's not what happens. So I knew
56:49
Speaker 2: that there'd been several experiences in my life where strong, independent,
56:56
Speaker 2: courageous tiff gets overtaken by whatever happens when you have
57:02
Speaker 2: a dissociated type experience and lets things happen and then
57:08
Speaker 2: so I think there was that. That's that's why the
57:11
Speaker 2: wall is there. It's like, well, I can't keep myself
57:13
Speaker 2: safe because well, Craig's paying him now, and no one,
57:17
Speaker 2: no one gives anything without taking things I don't want
57:19
Speaker 2: to give. No one ever does that ever. So if
57:23
Speaker 2: he's now paying me, so our first issues arose for me.
57:27
Speaker 2: It's really, you know, like on a subconscious level, when
57:33
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you're a part of the team.
57:36
Speaker 2: We're going to give you money. You're not just giving
57:38
Speaker 2: service and leaning on me for mentoring. You're a part
57:42
Speaker 2: of the team. There's an exchange. I was like, oh,
57:44
Speaker 2: I'm a commodity. He's buying me. What does he want?
57:46
Speaker 2: He gets to take whatever he wants.
57:48
Speaker 1: Now, Wow, Yeah, that's really I think you need to
57:54
Speaker 1: chime in, Doc. We definitely need some kind of therapy,
58:00
Speaker 1: quick help.
58:01
Speaker 3: I think you guys to beautifully.
58:05
Speaker 2: I described to you on another conversation about after letting
58:11
Speaker 2: go of some of those things on the mountain in rituals,
58:14
Speaker 2: after doing the work in India, and then I landed
58:17
Speaker 2: in Delhi and I had twenty four hours there and
58:20
Speaker 2: long store long, funny story short, I agreed to go
58:24
Speaker 2: to dinner with a guy from India who was staying
58:26
Speaker 2: at the hotel, and I would never do that because
58:29
Speaker 2: a Delhi's not safe and I'm alone, My friends weren't
58:32
Speaker 2: there yet, no one knew where I was. And I
58:34
Speaker 2: was like, and I felt different because I could feel
58:40
Speaker 2: that I wasn't that same person and I knew that
58:42
Speaker 2: I was in control of the situation and I wasn't
58:44
Speaker 2: going to slip into the seven year old that just
58:48
Speaker 2: pretends something's not happening or allows things. I felt very
58:51
Speaker 2: different in the experience. So you know what, eventually, when
58:55
Speaker 2: you have awareness on this stuff and you bring it
58:58
Speaker 2: to the surface and you work on things and you
59:00
Speaker 2: lean in, it changes. And that I felt like was
59:03
Speaker 2: a really profound experience and opportunity to happen so quickly
59:08
Speaker 2: to come up and go, oh, I have changed. I
59:11
Speaker 2: am safe in the world. I don't need to be
59:13
Speaker 2: the fighter that you know, like, I don't need that.
59:16
Speaker 2: I think that's why I've been the boxer, the fighter
59:20
Speaker 2: like I've got guns and I'll fucking knock you out.
59:22
Speaker 2: And I'm not an attractive female that's feminine because I
59:27
Speaker 2: don't want you to come close to me.
59:30
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, We could do this for another two hours,
59:35
Speaker 1: but we can't. But that's definitely we're going to revisit that, Lilian,
59:40
Speaker 1: how do people find you and connect with you and
59:44
Speaker 1: come and be therapized by you? If per chance you have.
59:47
Speaker 3: An opening, Doctor lillianneja dot com is a good place
59:52
Speaker 3: to start. You can find me there. And some of
59:56
Speaker 3: the programs that I have, whether you want to see
59:58
Speaker 3: me a person or online through self help means, those
1:00:04
Speaker 3: are the those are the two. Thanks.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have this awareness when I'm around you of
1:00:11
Speaker 1: how lilting and beautiful your voices and how mine is
1:00:15
Speaker 1: like fucking fingernails on a blackboard. Do you think you
1:00:22
Speaker 1: have that sense? Not utif, but do you? It's like
1:00:24
Speaker 1: it's so like hypnotic.
1:00:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's calming.
1:00:29
Speaker 3: Thank you. I actually I was just asked to do
1:00:33
Speaker 3: like a voiceover for a big event. I've never done
1:00:38
Speaker 3: that before, and I was cringing. I was at the event,
1:00:41
Speaker 3: so I was cringing the whole time because nobody likes
1:00:44
Speaker 3: to hear their their own voice except christ But yeah, no,
1:00:48
Speaker 3: it was really it was nice to be asked, and
1:00:53
Speaker 3: I appreciate the compliment. And if people like my voice,
1:00:57
Speaker 3: I do have a lot of mindfulness and relaxation and
1:01:00
Speaker 3: exercises I've recorded that you can find on Spotify if
1:01:03
Speaker 3: you like. If you want to learn some stress management
1:01:06
Speaker 3: techniques or learn how to do mindfulness practically, you can
1:01:10
Speaker 3: listen to my voice as much as you want.
1:01:13
Speaker 1: Perfect All right, well say goodbye here, but for now, Doc,
1:01:18
Speaker 1: thank you to fulso thank you, yes
1:01:20
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, both of you for having me.