Latest / Coffee Playdate Podcast with Dr. Olga Deengar / From Bicycle Accident to Building an Effective Physician Wellness Program Ep 25 – Dr. Sunny Smith
Transcript
- Coach Olga MD: Welcome to the Coffee Playdate podcast. I'm Dr. Olga Deengar and today I have a very special guest with me, Dr. Sunny Smith. Welcome. Sunny Smith: Hello, great to see you. Coach Olga MD: so happy that you're here with us today. ⁓ like to ask you, ⁓ you drink coffee? Sunny Smith: No. Coach Olga MD: What is your go-to beverage? Sunny Smith: Right now I'm having water and on a very special day I might, if I go to Starbucks, then I would get like something that's pink, like a dragon fruit drink or some kind of thing like that that has caffeine in it. ⁓ Yes, Coach Olga MD: Yes, fancy pink drinks. love that. Perfect. ⁓ we'll your water cup ⁓ to the next game. This game called Rapid Fire Questions. I'm going to ask you to choose ⁓ between ⁓ one thing the other that you like more. You don't need to give an explanation as to why. Just go with your gut instinct. Here we go. Sunny Smith: Yeah. you Okay. Coach Olga MD: 10 minutes of journaling or 10 minutes of meditation. Sunny Smith: journaling. Coach Olga MD: Good. Self-compassion or self-discipline? Sunny Smith: Self-compassion for sure. Coach Olga MD: about empowering others or being empowered? Sunny Smith: Mmm, that's a both and. I can't choose. Because my job is literally empowering others. But I want to empower myself as well. Coach Olga MD: Fair enough. You Yes. last one, writing a book or creating a course? Sunny Smith: Ooh, creating a course for me. Coach Olga MD: Good. next game is similar to this game, ⁓ this time we both answer and if our answers match, we take a sip from our coffee cups. Sunny Smith: Okay. Coach Olga MD: Morning walk outside or yoga sunset on the beach? Sunny Smith: I would say walk at sunset on the beach, but not yoga. Coach Olga MD: I love that blend. I'm gonna say morning walk outside. Sunny Smith: Hehehehe. Hehehehe. Coach Olga MD: I guess we could take a sip. Sunny Smith: Did we match? Match enough? We take a sip. Coach Olga MD: We have to take a half sip. Roses or lilies? Sunny Smith: Okay, half a sip. ⁓ I'm gonna go with roses. Coach Olga MD: Roses, I love roses. Sunny Smith: Okay! Coach Olga MD: view or ⁓ view? ⁓ Sunny Smith: Ready. ⁓ ocean view 100 % all the way. Okay, cheers. Coach Olga MD: Me too. Cheers! last one, traveling to Japan or South Africa. Sunny Smith: gosh. I might want to say South Africa. Coach Olga MD: Yeah, me too. I've never been to either, but that's the next one on my list. Sunny Smith: Okay? Same. Coach Olga MD: ⁓ can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what is the work that you do? Sunny Smith: Sure, I'm the founder and CEO of Empowering Women Physicians. We are one of the largest coaching companies for women physicians and we are the most effective physician wellness program documented to date. Coach Olga MD: Perfect. And how did all of this start? How did you get the idea to create this incredible coaching company? Sunny Smith: Yeah. Well, I was in Tahiti and I got into a bicycle accident. And when I broke both my arms and my face ⁓ had a head injury and was off work for a few months, I pretty upset about the condition that I was in. And a friend recommended a podcast that was about coaching and said, when you can't change the circumstances you're in, you can change the way you think about things and you could change the way you feel about things. And so that really changed my whole life to hear that. I know it doesn't sound that innovative, but it really was for me so then when I went back to work, eventually I was very intentional about the things I and the things that I let go of and I let go of a lot of things. It was so effective for me to really live my life intentionally that I thought that coaching might help other women physicians too, because everyone around me was just so crazy busy all the time and so overwhelmed like it was happening to them like they had no choice. So I trained as a coach and I started coaching others and you had to do 10 people while you're in training. And by the end of those 10 people, I was like, oh my gosh, this really works. Like it's not just me that this works for, this works for a lot of people for almost any situation. And then I started the company and here we are almost eight years later. so when I got into the coaching world, that's where people taught me about entrepreneurship and being surrounded by people. who are doing that kind of work, then you start to believe it's possible for you too. Coach Olga MD: Yeah, no, definitely. It's a whole other world. there are people that, you know, they don't ⁓ in it. They don't think there's value to coaching, but ⁓ think they're dead wrong. It's, there's... ⁓ Sunny Smith: It is. They are wrong. They have not read the randomized controlled trials. I just think that's okay. They just don't know. if they would like to sit down and read through the randomized controlled trials of which there are many published in high quality journals, ⁓ then we could have a conversation whether coaching is effective or not. ⁓ Otherwise it's just like talking to Like ⁓ it's just, they just don't believe but there's data that shows that I believe in this as much as I believe in antibiotics. It works. Coach Olga MD: And did you have fears when you were making this transition? Were you scared that you might lose that ⁓ kind comfort blanket of having a W2 job? Sunny Smith: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I I did the transition kind of gradually. I went from 1.0 to 0.8 to 0.6 to 0.17 to zero. as I started shifting and my business started becoming more successful and taking up more more space in life, I was cutting back at the university. You know, I had a little bit of a hard time letting go of that version of me, but the pull towards the newer version of me was so strong that it felt like the right thing to do. Coach Olga MD: Exactly. It is a choice that you have to make. sounds like you were now living in more of an alignment with your core values and your why and your purpose. Sunny Smith: Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah, I was very fortunate that all along I had a very meaningful job. I really liked my work and I really like my work now. So I've been able to have a really meaningful trajectory of my career the whole And was it a little, you know... a little scary, you know, at first to make a transition and everybody definitely thinks you're crazy because people don't get it. And would try to caution me against doing it, but I felt really called and it just made sense to me. Coach Olga MD: Yeah. Is there a mindset shift that you needed to have as you were embarking on your entrepreneurial journey and building your business? Sunny Smith: Well, I think you have to learn to think outside the box because we've been given this yellow brick road where it's like, do this, do this, do that, know, study, take the MCATs, go to med school, go to residency, go to fellowship, go to be an assistant professor, then an associate professor, then a clinical professor. And then I'm like on the other side of clinical professor, I'm like, okay, I did all the check marks. I did all the steps. Now what? And then entrepreneurship, it's really, you dream up things that have never happened before. in your own life, right? You're going to create something out of absolutely nothing. And so you have to how to believe ahead of time. You have to learn like delusional positivity, where be willing to let everybody else think you're crazy. So I think thinking outside the box, believing in possibilities ahead of time, and being willing to let people think whatever it is they think and not internalize all those limiting beliefs they have about you and what's possible for you. Coach Olga MD: Yeah, when you say believing in the ideas that you have like coming true, ⁓ you mean visualizing what your outcome could look like? Sunny Smith: I believe in possibilities for my clients and for myself. I believe it's possible. Like if you told me I want to have a podcast. I'd be like, absolutely. I believe you can have a podcast. And people would be like, well, but people are going to judge what I say and my work's going to have opinions and my patients going to have opinions. I'm like, uh-huh. And yes, they are going to have opinions, but I believe it's possible for you to do it. And I believe it's possible that it be successful. And if you believe it's possible, then you start telling everybody else. mean, like once I discovered coaching, And so I just believed that. And then, ⁓ you know, the podcast really off and it's And I'm not even the kind of person who does one every week. I do a couple a year and every single day, new women physicians listen to it every day, even though there's only a couple new ones per year. Coach Olga MD: I love your podcast, by the way. listen to it all the time. It's good to come back and just refresh and repeat those episodes because you always find something new, something different that you didn't pick up the first time. Sunny Smith: Thank you. Thank you. Yes! See, that's so beautiful to hear because people do say that. They say that they go back and listen to them. So it's something that in business we call evergreen, where it's as opposed to like when you post on Instagram, people don't go back and or on Facebook or anywhere on social media, people don't go back and listen. But in a podcast, it is somewhere that people do go back two years later to listen and they refer their friends to it. And so that's beautiful to hear. Thank you. Coach Olga MD: Now, I'd like to shift gears a little bit and ask you about, was there a time when you had a challenge as you were growing your business that you had to overcome, with your new program coming through? Sunny Smith: Let's see, there are always challenges in business. always overcoming challenges in business. I say the biggest one that I remember was when I transitioned from doing just my own coaching where it was just me and I knew how to market myself and how to get clients myself and my people who are on my email list and in my world and my podcast listeners, they knew to expect that I would coach them. I would send them to a call, I would talk to them and I would say, know, if you're interested in working more together, this is how we'd work together. And they'd say yes or no, and then we would move forward. And I sponsored my friend's conference, Hala Sabry, she does Physician Moms Group. And she a conference and I did a sponsorship of the lunch. And so me and several women physicians stood on stage and talked about what coaching was and how it changed our lives. Because just like I told... you today, it really truly deeply changed my life and we felt that we were really on the fringe. So we were trying to get in front of all these people and say, no, it really did change our lives and here's the ways that it did. And we came together and did a group program where there was a group of women physicians who were going to be available to coach a group of other women physicians who signed up. And so I paid $25,000, which at the time for me, that was a lot of money. And for my clients for my coaching budget. It was huge. And so we stood on the stage and we made the pitch. And if you work with us, this is how it would look like. Here's the QR code. Go ahead and sign up. And literally no one signed up. Zero people. Zero. So then the next day I came back and I'm like, so you guys must have been confused. I understand. Cause people were asking me questions like, how could you work with more than one coach at one time? It doesn't make sense. How could you have a group of coaches? And so I was like, you guys must have been confused. because just told you how this changes our lives and it's so amazing and so impactful and ⁓ signed up. So I'm sorry if we confused you, ask me any questions you want. And one person signed up and was like, okay, I don't know. So I like went back to the sales page and I'm like trying to answer the questions that people were stopping me in the hallway asking, like trying to make it make sense how you could sign up to have a program of more than one coach. I just kept trying and trying did a bunch of different stuff online. did a bunch of informational calls, et cetera. We ended up with 80 people signing up and that was like the huge inflection point. That was more people than had ever signed up. like in the whole entirety of my business at that point. And then, so that was, we were supposed to start March 1st, 2020 and we did. And March 13th, I think it was 2020, the whole world shut down. So you can imagine everyone's like, this was a bad idea. I need to get out of here. This is not a time for personal development because really physicians were in the garages, right? And not sleeping with their families and it was terrible. And I was like, This is the thing is that this mindset works matters so much. It matters now more than ever. We are here for you. And we went to being open seven days a week during that time. And I was like, that you need us now more than ever. Your family needs you to stay with us now more than ever. We are here to support you. No one gets a physician during COVID like physicians. ⁓ it makes me tearful. cause I remember so much of what so many people were going through during that time. So we stayed open and we doubled down and then we've been growing ever since. So yeah. There's always going to be challenges and it's not are there challenges, it's how do you respond to the challenges that makes you a successful entrepreneur. Coach Olga MD: Yeah, you clearly responded well because you've put all of your time, all of your energy to pivot, to try to make this successful, to show people how valuable coaching can be. And especially at such a detrimental time during COVID, it was a lot for everyone. Sunny Smith: Yes, yes, yes, yes. then as you mentioned, we're now starting a brand new program, which ⁓ we're doing after all these years. And because our intervention is so effective, we want to train other physicians to do it. So we have this physician coach certification and we're about two weeks in to our very first enrollment in physician coach certification. And fortunately, ⁓ I had known there was already built up demand because people have been asking for us to train them in what we do for so long. So we've already had about 25 people sign up and we're kind of getting close to the maximum of what we're going to be able to allow because of the way that the training has to be, how much observing we have to do with you, et cetera. So we're doing really well now this time, but there's always, always things behind the scenes. There's always challenges. There's always growth. learning and growth. They say you get the result you want or the lesson you need. So if you don't get the result you want, you're always getting lessons. Yeah. Coach Olga MD: Yeah, congratulations. That's amazing that you're already getting the target and getting the people enrolled. Wow. Sunny Smith: Thank you. Yes. Yes, but I think there's a mistake that people make is they think that people who are already in business and are already successful are always going to be hitting their target and aren't worried. And I can tell you every single time we have an enrollment, we do seasonal enrollments like fall, winter, spring, summer. And every time, you know, we're hoping to our goal and we don't always hit our goal. And sometimes we don't even get near the goal. And that's OK. And then we just try and keep pivoting, experimenting and seeing what can we do differently this time? And the market shifts and everyone that people see out there and would recognize or know their brand, they are always pivoting behind the scenes. And it's just that our distress comes with more zeros after it. Right. Like the twenty five thousand is literally now two hundred and fifty thousand when I think about how much I pay to market to get our clients. So if I'm paying hundreds of thousands of dollars and I don't get the people enrolled, that's a big deal. So we have to figure out, again, as you grow in entrepreneurship, you just get more zeros behind your problems. you have to have thicker skin and more willingness to figure it out. Yeah. Coach Olga MD: Yeah. And it sounds like you're working with a team. So if you don't get the number of enrollees that you need, they're going to be affected by it. mean, it's a downstream effect. Everyone's going to be affected. God forbid you have to let someone go. Sunny Smith: ⁓ yes, yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. That is the case for anyone who grows any significant size business is that it's no longer just you and your family and your money. mean, that's stressful enough. Everybody listening to this can think of how stressful it is to have to worry about your family and your money and your, you know, all of that stuff. And then imagine dealing with that for a whole bunch of humans. It's a significant responsibility, right? So it's important to be mindful. as you're growing about what kind of business and culture and community that you're creating for others too. Coach Olga MD: Yeah. And speaking of work culture, is there an example that you can share where you have gone above and beyond for your team? And this question is inspired by the book Unreasonable Hospitality written by Will Guidara He talks about the 95-5 rule, you allocate 5 % of your budget to creating these extraordinary, unforgettable, meaningful experiences for your team, ⁓ efficiently managing or budgeting the other 95%. Can you give me an example? Sunny Smith: Yeah, I mean, I can think of so many things. We've had so many fun, amazing things. But you mentioned for including my team in it. So that's what brings this example to mind is did a so ⁓ I used I took people to Bora Bora is like a big thing that I did for, ⁓ know, in my company, I did retreats in Bora Bora. And then during COVID. we were not able to bring anybody to Bora Bora. So I asked myself, you what can I do to make it amazing for our clients? How can I just make it that's very memorable, you know, in your life? And so I asked, I talked to my coach and we said, well, what would be the most fun? And so I came up with some people that would be the most fun to come into our program and One person that came to mind was Liz Gilbert, who wrote the book Eat, Pray, Love. So those that you have that are about our age would probably know the book Eat, Pray, Love. And Liz Gilbert is amazing. And I just love her philosophy of life. So just emailed and asked her to come. And she said yes. And I was like, ⁓ what you talking about? You just email people and they'll just come? And so then the thing that I did for our team, so that was amazing for our clients. Her workshops were phenomenal. And I invited all of our coaches and our and all of our clients. But what became the really phenomenal thing was that when the world was back open again, I invited her to come to Puerto Rico to do an in-person event with us. so ⁓ was I invited all of our coaches ⁓ all of our clients. ⁓ then when we got there, I kind of surprised everyone by putting all of us and Liz Gilbert on a little private planes. over to an island to go in a bioluminescent bay, the brightest bioluminescent bay in the world. And then we took these little private planes back and it was just the most magical night out there, sparkling. And you put your hand in the water and there's just like all these sparkling little things. And it was magical for all of our clients and for Liz. And she even gave me a book at the very end that said, thank you for one of the most magical nights of my life. Coach Olga MD: Wow Sunny Smith: And it really was so it was just so magical. And again, all of our coaches were included. All of our staff were included. In fact, on the plane with me and Liz, there's only four seats in the plane. And it was me and Liz and one of my staff members, my marketing guy and my best friend from med school. So it was like, you know, you don't have to do stuff like that. But when given the opportunity, why would you not want to create something like that for your people? So. We can be just a coaching program, which is very impactful, just virtual coaching. Yet when you have the ability to create magical memories like that, it's like, why not? It's something that people remember forever. Coach Olga MD: Wow, that is extraordinary. actually got the chills. ⁓ Sunny Smith: It was amazing. One of the favorite memories. And you know what's funny is if you didn't mention team, I probably wouldn't have even thought of that one. But yeah, my coaches were there and it was beautiful for all of us to be there in community together. Coach Olga MD: amazing. And talked about book. So is there a book recommendation that you have for our listeners today? Sunny Smith: Thank you. I think recently in the past year or so, I've been recommending the Let Them theory by Mel Robbins because it's so important to have, you know, let me control the things that are in my control and let them be them. the haters are going to hate. Your mother-in-law is going to mother-in-law. As would say, she taught me dogs are going to bark and cats are going to meow. So like if you have a family member or a friend who's always barking or always meowing, expect them to bark or meow and like just let them be them and let you focus on the things that you really do control. It's I know some people have some opinions about the book or some people think, you know, I think if you just listen to the title and it's like let them you think that's like letting people abuse you or letting people like letting your workplace. in medicine, for instance, do all the terrible things they do. That's not really what it's about. It's about recognizing what you control and what you don't. And I think it's really powerful. And I think that there's actually a lot of psychology and good research. And I think it's a really powerful book to live by. Coach Olga MD: I've heard of it. I have to now read it. Sunny Smith: yes, I highly recommend. If you haven't read it, I seriously do highly recommend it. Coach Olga MD: Thank you so much, Sunny. It was a pleasure having you here on our podcast. I hope to have you on another episode in the future. Sunny Smith: Thank you. It was a pleasure being here. Great to see you.