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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 136 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Time to reconvene
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: on the podcast, I've shot myself over to Johannesburg. Liam,
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: You're back at home kitchen giving a watch on what
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: has been a dramatic few days in All Blacks. Developments
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: came out last Thursday, and this has been the story
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: of the week, hasn't it, The Leon McDonald departure from
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks after just five test matches. I guess
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: before we get into what it means your initial reaction
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: when that news dropped around lunchtime on.
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: Thursday, Well, certainly dramatic, wasn't it, Elliott? As you mentioned there,
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: I don't think anybody really saw that coming. There was,
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: you know, few whispers that maybe there were too many messages,
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: too many coaches. Well then the All Black scroup and
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: we've seen them be very scratchy and patchy this year
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: and heard a few whispers about maybe some tension in
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: the coaching group, but as you say, certainly five tests
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: into the year, nobody really expected such a dramatic departure
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: so early into the year, so early into Scott Robertson's
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: coaching tenure, having just formed this group, What.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Does I guess do for Yeah, I know you've just
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: been on the phone call with Jason Ryan and Tupo Vie.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: But I suppose the cohesion of the management staff. But
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: I know they've made the decision to sort of make
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: things more cohesive. But it's got to be an initial joke,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: doesn't it. So the way they prepare for this Test
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: match against South Africa.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: It's a major disruption, isn't it. If you take a
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: step back, and I guess look at it from from
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: a structure point of view. Lelio McDonald was the All
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: Blacks attack coach and I think that's where the issues
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: have One of the areas where the issues have arisen
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: from Leon is known has been quite a structured attack coach,
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: having formulas in place, and him and Scott Robinson are
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: both headstrong characters and things have clearly come to a
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: head from there. But from a structured point of view
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: for the All Blacks, Scott Hansen has been running the
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: All Blacks defense. He now has to flip entirely and
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: assume the attack brief. Tommody Allison, who was in the
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: All Blacks coaching group on a part time basis, is
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: a contact coach, is now leading the national team's defense.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: You know, a well regarded, highly regarded coach, Tombody Allison.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: But to be parachuted into that role straight to test
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: level is a huge ask in any sort of week,
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: let alone one where you're going up against the spring
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: box at Eden Park. So from your point of view,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: how much of a disruption as Leanne McDonald's departure and
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: how do you think how and why do you think
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: it's come about so swiftly?
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I think this is the fascinating thing is that
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: they've decided five weeks in that there's not getting any better.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: It's going to remain this way. That they're so diametrically opposed.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: And I suppose, I suppose it's one thing, you know,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: putting together a coaching staff on paper, it's another one
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: actually living it out and being a living, breathing coaching
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: team in the world of rugby. And you know Leon
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: last week Doneder Scott Robertson in twenty seventeen, that was
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: when he was as an assistant departed there, took some
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: time off with family that ended up as the Blues's
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: assistant originally and ended up as the head coach there
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: soon afterwards. But I guess maybe you know, there's if
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: there was some tension between the two, perhaps there was
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: a disagreement in the past that maybe Scott Robertson reverted
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: to the fact that actually just a good rugby coach
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: and once we get into all Black camp we'll be
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: able to figure these things out. But it does seem
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: like they're so diametrically opposed and the way they want
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: to play and coach rugby that it can't be resolved.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: I think it is a disruption all of a sudden. Yes,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: you're removing Lean McDonald and perhaps sharpening up or getting
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: a bit more cohesive and some of the messaging, but
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: you're also switching around some of the key briefs of
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: the team. You know, Scott Hansen on the defense side
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: of things moves to the attack as you mentioned, and
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: the time to yell Allison change as well. I think
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: it has to be disruptive there for Scott Hansen to
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: be preparing for the next four years really, because you
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: know he's going to be sorting out the defense of
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: the coach and then get the message the week after that.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: For the at least the next year, he's going to
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: be looking at the attack of the side. So I
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: think there's no way for it to not be disruptive
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: in the All Blacks environments and the key for them
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: is how they move on past it and try and
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: get the results this weekend.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just want to pick up like couple of
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: points you make there about twenty seventeen and when Leon
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: was at the Crusaders, and my understanding there is that
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: there was actually a falling out around Leon's relationship with
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: Brad Moore and Leon moving back to Nelson. At the
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: time he said it was to be closer to family,
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: but he's obviously aspirational as well and wanting to be
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: a head coach and that came about from the Blues.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: So clearly this is not the first time there's been
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: tension between Scott Robertson and Lea McDonald And the fact
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: of the matter is they've had twelve months to get
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: on the same page. And as you mentioned, you know,
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: there is a difference between coaching on paper and living
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: and breathing it in an All Black environment when you
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: have a shot gloss at home to the Pumas, and
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: obviously some difficulties getting past England as well. But Scott
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: Robinson was appointed head coach of the All Blacks in
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: March last year, and this was always going to be
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: his coaching team as far back as the year before
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: when he was sounded out to take over from me
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: and Foster. So he knew his coaching team so far out.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: How did he not envision some form of issues, you know,
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: so to me to make this change. You know, they've
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: been applauded for their ability to you know, make this
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: decision so swiftly and not let it hang over the
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: team and drag out for the rest of the year.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: And I think there is some truth to that, but
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: I also think that this just shouldn't have happened given
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: the long lead in time that they had, so to me,
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: it is a bit of an early black eye for
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Scott Robinson's tenure. The only other point I'd make is
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: this is not the there's a bit of symmetry here
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: isn't there Because two years ago when the All Blacks
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: were in Johannesburg, they went through similar coaching up people
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: following their first home series loss to Ireland, and Jason
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: Ryan came in as All Black Spord's coach replaced John
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Plumtree for the tests Allie Parks. So very spooky, sort
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: of similar circumstances there.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: It certainly is. I guess a couple more things that
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I want to touch on before we let this topic go. Look,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: did Leon McDonald get a payout? I guess it's the question.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: And does it have a restraint of trade to stop
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: and coaching international teams abroad for a certain period of
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: time will be I don't think that was asked of
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Chris Lendrim. I haven't heard it clarified in recent days.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: That's that's something I think is still sticking out and
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: probably needs to answered.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, my understanding is Leon was contracted for four years
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: as All Black's assistant coach, and while the negotiations of
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: his exit will be confidential, I have heard that he
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: got paid out for as much as two years. So
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: I've also been apparently head coaches of Super rugby teams
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: get paid anywhere from three hundred fifty thousand dollars, So
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: you can do the math on a potential payout there.
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: No one will really know other than Leon what the
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: terms and conditions around that, but he would have definitely
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: got a payout. He wouldn't have walked away empty handed.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: And I doubt that there is a restraint of trade
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: because you know he's walking away as a free agent.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: I don't think you can put too many caveats around that,
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: particularly given the circumstances. So you know, maybe Joe Schmidt
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: taps them up, gives them a phone call. They've got
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: a strong relationship. They work together at the Blues Purse
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: with Schmidt Men's touring him, then Schmidt coming on board
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: as an assistant coach. So in terms of Leon's future,
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: you'd have to think it does lie potentially with another
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: international team abroad, because does he really want to go
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: back to coaching.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: Super Rugby keeps some of those financial figures you're plucking
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: out there limb of sort of rugby director presenter salaries
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: that we're talking about. Finally, the other one I want
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: to throw at you is will the All Blacks look
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: for a long term replacement? Now this set up that
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: we've touched on a couple of times is going to
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: be in place. It's seemingly for the rest of the year.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: But I guess once they get through these fourteen tests
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: this year, they can sort of reassess and see where
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: the holes are and see if they need to cover
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: things up. So I suppose the jury's out there. But
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: once your gutfield and do you think they'll look to
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: replace him on a full time basis next year or
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: will these two changes have made sort of cover it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: It's a very interesting question. I'm not sure. I think
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: long term they probably would look to replace them. But
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: there's got to be some financial considerations here, given the
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: payouts that the All Blacks have made in recent years,
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: not just to Leon but to pray More and John
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: Plumtree as well.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: So I under.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: That's some big figures.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, some big figures that have been talked about. I
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: guess do you put someone of the mix that may
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: not necessarily work as well or do you trust that
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: these two And you know, Tamothy Alison long Bent outed
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: as a probable Crusader's coach head coached from twenty twenty six.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: If he's to stay on permanently, with the all Blacks
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: that goes out the window as well, So all sorts
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: of threads to this story which is still developing and
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: still bubbling away as we get into test week in
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: the Republic. But that's where I want to turn the
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: attention to now on Ragpy Director Test Week in South Africa,
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: All Blacks and South Africa. Now, by the time you
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: hear this Russia Rasmus as he usually does naming his
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: team a Tuesday local time, the whispers are that even
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: ead Sabeth is likely arts, which adds to locking crisis
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: for the spring Box, which is about four or five deep.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Franco Mosta not playing Luda Yaga even eat Sabeth in
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: the mix as well, so they're right down on their
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: numbers in the second row. But Jee, there's nothing actually
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: going like an all Black South Africa teaste doesn't.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: Limb doesn't get any b or earlier, and there's been
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: some amazing moments over there is that haven't there And
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: nothing quite compares to Alice Park, the Springbok spiritual home, altitude,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: just the atmosphere around it, the team bus rolling in
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: getting pelted with fruit back in the day, not so
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: much anymore, but it really is a magical experience and
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: it is an arena that brings out the All Blacks best.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: They've actually got a phenomenal record there in recent times.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: I think they've won something like three of their past
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: four Tests at Alice Park and you only have to
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: go back two years to that response that saved Ian
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: Foster's coaching career with the All Black student. It's coming
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: one week after Mombala where they were completely outplayed, and
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: the Springboks are in great shape, aren't they. They're a
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: better team now than they were at the World Cup,
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: with Tony Brown coming on board and evolving their attacking game.
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: Jason Ryan noted some little evolutions in their line out moves.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: Certainly you've seen that with the depth of their back
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: line play and some of their ability to use the
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: ball on the air, and they've just got phenomenal depth.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: They rotated throughout that series in Australia two Tests against
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: the Wallabies and they did it comfortably despite making I
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: think it was ten starting or ten changes to their
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: squad between Brisbane and Perth, and that's something they've done
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: over the past four years. So this is a huge
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: challenge for the All Blacks. You know, disruption aside with
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: the assistant with Leo McDonald leaving, they have been really
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: patchy this year, so they've got everything to prove this
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: week I.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Do, and it's got interesting to see whether things have
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: been left in the tank and set moves whatever. You know,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: what do you think have been left in the tank?
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Because I know the on McDonald go on, but what
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: four sorry five tests inst did Jason Holns tenure of
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: strip play coach and really haven't seen too many stripe
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: players from the All Blacks so far in his tenure.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: So interesting to see what is cooking this weekend. The
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: spring Box go in his favorites and it's been a
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: rarity in recent times. I guess how much will the
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: World Cup final last year way on some of these
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: players from the All Blacks perspective that are going out
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: in there and playing this test match this weekend.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: It's an interesting dynamic, is that, because you've had a
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: lot of post World Cup departures, particularly for the All Blacks,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: but there is a real core group that did feature
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: in that final and had so many different experiences against
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks in recent tie against the spring Box.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: Sorry you look at that Twickenham game that that record defeat.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Jason Ryan talked about how much he learned from that
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: in terms of the physicality that the spring Box brought
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: to blow the All Black away that night. Look, I
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: don't think any All Black ever gets over losing a
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: World Cup final, no matter what the circumstances are. You've
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: got Sam Cain in that group. Of course, you know
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: the red card in that final. As you know, he
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: mentioned that's something he's going to have to live with forever.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: But that hurt lingers for any All Black and it's
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: not something that they'd get over. So I don't know
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: if it's something they'd necessarily talk about, but it's something
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: that would be prevalents in their minds. What about the Springboks,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: do you think they are more confident than they've ever
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: been when it comes to facing the All Blacks.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. I think they genuinely are. That they've
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: won their last two, including a World Cup final against them,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: and I think there's a sense that the All Blacks
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: sort of the lower EBB now than they have been
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: for quite some time in terms of a block of
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: say five five or so years, not just this year's
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: All Blacks, but say you pass it out and go.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: This is the tw twenty twenty two, twenty four class
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: versus the twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen and backwards after that.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: So I think there is a sense that, you know,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: the spring Box have had the upper hand in recent years,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: but the All Blacks have always done quite well, regardless
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: of the coach and who it is, of getting themselves
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: up for the big games. There was the one hundredth
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Tests and twenty twenty two, there was sorry twenty three
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: one I think it was. There was you know, other
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: tests along the way that they've managed to get up for.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Obviously I didn't get up for a World Cup final,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: but you know the Alice Park won with the backs
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: against the wall a couple of years ago. There's you know,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: they have history of being able to get up for
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: big occasions. They got up to draw on everything they
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: possibly can. This week again Ethan de Grout out. He's
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: been left behind with that neck injury of his He
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: was originally expected to travel ruled out, so to Mighty
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Williams gets another crack and certainly the biggest match of
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: his career, you know, scrummaging against one of the spring
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Box starters this weekend at Alice Park. Doesn't get much
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: bigger than that for someone like to Mighty coming in
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: as the second choice starting prop for the All Blacks
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: in the one jumper.
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: That's right, And there has been so much talk, hasn't
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: there this year? I guessed about the dominance of the
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: All Black scrum. It's been easily the best aspect of
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: their game. They've used as a weapon where possible. They
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: couldn't use it against the Pumas in Wellington because there
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: wasn't a scrum for sixty minutes and that did really
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: hurt them. It's a facet of their game that they
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: pride themselves on. But I think the group is a
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: big loss. But it is interesting to Mighty Williams played
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: against the box in the World Cup final. Even Fletcher Neul,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: the second choice tight haired, made his debut two years
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: ago at Alice Park. So you know, some young guys
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: do have experience against the box. But you've also got
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: to be prepared for eighty plus minutes, don't you. With
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: the bomb squad, we haven't seen a seven to one
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: bench I think from the spring box this year. Is
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: this the week that they'll try it on to try
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: and you know, really come over the top of the
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: All Black said altitude.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Well, as much as you as I think you know,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: hopefully the All Blacks have been keeping things in reserve.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: I'm sure Russia r Astmus has got something up his
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: sleeve and would not surprise me to see a seven
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: to one bench, although maybe the depth issues they've got
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: at Locke might just prevent them doing something like that
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: this week. They may hold on to that for Cape
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Tail and potentially next week. Look a fascinating game, Liam.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: In one word, what do the All Blacks need to
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: do on Sunday morning, New zeal In time to get
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: the win and go well? I say one nil up
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: in the series, but you know, beat the spring box
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: as the primary objective and get some Rugby Championship points.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: Look, I think with the box, it all just starts
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: with physicality. You have to be desperate before you need
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: to be Basically, you have to start well. You have
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: to match them physically. It's in the mall defense, it's
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: at the breakdown where the All Blacks have been a
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: bit patchy this year. It's whether you're carrying clean and
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: you know, we've talked a lot about the lack of
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: dominant ball carriers and that All Blacks packed this year.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: They have to go forward to provide that platform because
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: questions have been asked over to j Pedenara and Damien McKenzie.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: And if they don't have that platform and under pressure,
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: if they can't get out of their own ends as
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: we saw against the Pumas and Wellington, then they're going
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: to be in strife. So physicality for me, Elliott, they
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: just they have to meet fire with fire otherwise they
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: really don't stand a chance.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: My one word is patience because I don't think we've
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: seen that enough from the All Blacks this year. Building
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: attacks inside the red zone of the opposition. That's been
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: down to some good defense from Argentina also England, but
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: when they've got they haven't been able to build from
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: the forty to thirty inside the twenty two and then
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: trust themselves that they are going to get the reward
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: there sooner rather than the latter. Want to see that.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: On Sunday morning, you hear live commentary on NEWSTALKSZMB, Goldsword
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: and iHeartRadio from three am. Have a few more thoughts
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: on that before we go, but time now for a
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: quick break on Rugby Direct. Thanks to our friends at
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Folklift Solutions.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: howard By News.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Talk time night for our Final four here on Rugby Direct,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: as has now become customary, start the final four with
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: give us a highlight of the NPC or the Far
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Apartment Cup. I'm actually going to go first here. I
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: watched and it's been a rarity in recent weeks. I've
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: been home on a Sunday afternoon and not working following
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: up All Black Story or things like that, but watched
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: two of the games at the same time or crossover.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: It was Mutter Word two against Wellington and Otiger playing
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Bay of Plenty. Those are two absolutely cracking games that
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: were close right until the end, plenty of dr in them,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: so I thought they were both outstanding games. I thought
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Man Over two was about to get Wellington, but they
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: just the Lions rolled over the top in the last
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: ten minutes and they've set themselves up for an interesting
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: week with that bit we've got going Liam. Of course,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: next week you're hired of the NPTC Palmback Cup.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, I think Ruggy Direct listeners are really hanging out
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: to see you in alliance.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: I've had a few texts, tell me tell you why.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: I've had a few texts.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: I got to give the punt is what they want.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: So no, that's going to be hotly anticipated. That Look,
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: I think we've talked about previously just how even the
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: NPC is this year, and we're seeing that with teams
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: like Auckland, an O and three start for the first
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: time I think in history. So there's a major union,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: a powerhouse province under major pressure. You're seeing, you know, Tasman,
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: a traditional powerhouse in recent years, to find some real
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: form and they've got a shield. They've got the next
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: shield challenge against Hawkspace, so that's going to be an
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: absolute doozy. Teams like Otago coming to the fore showing
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: a bit of form as well. So I think it's
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: nice to see provinces outside the traditional bases really compete
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: and stand up because this is their time to do it,
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: and they are doing that this year.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: They certainly are. They certainly are looking forward to the
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: week ahead and hopeing Canterbury gets up over Wellington top
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: of two of the final four. Your favorite Alice Park
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: memory or match, please.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: There's been many fam there, Elliott, but I'm going to
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: go back to my I think it was my first
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: time at Alice Park actually, and it's my greatest match
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: in history. The All Blacks went to Alice Park and
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: the rugby championship was on the line. The spring Box
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: needed to score four triers to get five points, so
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: they actually had a lot of endeavor and gave it
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: a real crack for their style of rugby at that time.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Bill Black survived two yellow car to lam Messim and
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: Ben Franks came over the top to win there and
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: just sitting in those stands feeling a bit like a
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: fish out of water. With sixty four thousand rabid South Africans,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: there's nothing quite like witnessing in All Blacks victory there.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: So that's my favorite memory. But there's been many getting
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: up in the middle of the nights to talked about
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: today having a mile and a few biscuits back in
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: the day, and any New Zealand rugby fan would have
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: done that with their grandfathers or fathers. It's a bit
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: of a tradition, so I'll be doing that this week
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Look, I'm going to go a bit closer and
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: say the Crusaders went over the Lions in twenty seventeen
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: that was outstanding crusaders almost out on their feet by
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: the very end of the game, it managed to take
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: the victory. There are several more I could have taken,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: perhaps of it. Certainly World Cup Final in ninety five
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: might have gone a different way than Perhaps that would
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: have cracks the top spot for me. A couple more
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: coaching changes and topic three abroad we touched on them.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Mcdonnald obviously at the top, but news out today as
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: we recorded David nusafora heading for Scotland despite being employed
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: by Rugby Australia. He's gone to join Scotland and of
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: rugby type role and Felix Jones also out from the
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: England setup, which is a real surprise because he's incredibly
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: highly rated. Big wraps on him when they were down
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: here recently during their tour, of course, but he's quit
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: as defense coach. I believe he's still got a notice
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: period to work out, so he might be a run
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: for a wee bit longer as yet. But a couple
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: of big surprises there. So it's funny, isn't Liam. You know?
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: I guess what a year into the post World Cup
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: cycle and already there's some movement on the job market.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: There is indeed, this is never a dull moment, and
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: their rugby world is there. Look, Felix Jones for me
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: was a massive shock, as you mentioned when England went
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: down here has rushed defense, caused the all Blacks all
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: sorts of problems and he was highly regarded at the
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: spring Box and you know, former Irish international, so that
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: is a real surprise. And I think their England's highly
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: regarded strength and conditioning train has been lured to Ireland
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: as well, So I think what we're seeing is money talks.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know where Felix might pop up, but that's
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: a massive loss for England. David nusefhora wee bit of surprise,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: but his role was as a consultant, so Scotland's curly
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: puts a head turning offer on the table for him,
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: and given what he did with Ireland, I think that's
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: a great get for them. Nusha not universally popular in Ireland,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: but given the structures that they've got in place there
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: with their provinces and the national team, he'd have to
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: give him a big tick for what he's helped usher
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: in an Ireland. So a very handy pick up for
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Scotland as well.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, certainly he's been around the traps and seems to
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: know how to get those systems in place around the
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: rug big globe, and there's probably what Scotland needs, I
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: think just looking at some of the programs they've gone
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: at the moment and pathways through to their national side
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: and topic number for your toughest selection for the All
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: Blacks this week or what changes can you envisage making.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Do you see many changes coming to the All Black
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: side for Sunday morning Test match?
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: I don't you mentioned to Mighty Williams coming into lucid
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: prop I think Scott Barrett, but again so he'll come
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: back in the second row, probably alongside too Vay. You
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: would suspect with Patrick two Polo to not being present there.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: The big questions for me are at open side, whether
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks promote potentially Sam Kine from the bench.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: He's very experienced, you know, brings that real physical edge.
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: I would not be surprised to see that. And on
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: the left wing, whether Caleb Clark retains his place or
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Mark Tala comes back. I think the rest of the
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: team will be fairly settled. I wouldn't be surprised to
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: see some of Penny Female perhaps come onto the bench.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: I think Bill Blacks will need a bit of size
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: and physicality, but I think they will largely favor a
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: settled team, you know, particularly coming after that performance against
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: the Pumas, which was really convincing in the first half.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: At least those starters went out and did the business,
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: So it would be pretty harsh to drop anyone, even
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: though Alice Park and the Box is a completely different proposition.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Do you stick with ricae Uani Center?
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: I think they will. Yeah, I think he's a guy.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: It was a weird sort of two weeks, wasn't it,
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: the flip flop drop in one week, bringing back the next.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: But I think Rico's strength actually, for a guy that's
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: looked at as an attacking weapon history does actually defensively
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: and that's where I think Angelina Brown paid the price
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: for that Wellington test tea. I think he fell off
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: four tackles and at test level that's really costly. So
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: I think they will stick with Rico. What about you?
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: You would you pick Sam Kaines? Do you think they will?
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Well? I actually would, look, I think I mentioned a
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: couple weeks ago. I'd be quite end to see Ardisavim
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: to open so flank and Wallace to Tez at number eight.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: That would have been against Sergeancy. I don't think that's
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: a change to make for this week. I think Sam
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Kaine's a player you want. People say, well, he's leaving
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: in the year, but so is TJ Petnara, and he's
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: you would say, lucky to start this week as well.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: I think you packed the side that is going to
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: win you the Test match, not the one that you
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: want to win a Test match with in twenty twenty five.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: So for me, Sam Kaine, you want that physicality, you
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: want that brute strength of his and the amount of
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: tackles that he'll be able to get through. I think
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: you need everything that he can possibly deliver. So i'd
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: make that change. Maybe Dlden bubble Lee he comes off
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: the bench, or yet look at a fee now for
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: some explosiveness. But that certainly seems like one change that
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: the All Black Selectors could Tampa with. That team is
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: out around dinner time New Zealand on Thursday. Of course,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: the game three eight in New Zealand time. You'll hear
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: it on News Talk ZMB, Goldsport and our Heart Radio.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: You can follow it on indied hero dot cot or
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: India and all the analysis after that as well. Liam
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: My thanks to you as always for jumping on and
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: joining us on Rugby Director. I've been awake for more
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: than twenty four hours now, so it might be time
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: for a week nine eyes.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: You get some rice, get over to Nelson Mandela Square,
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: get a hearty steak and have some bullt on this
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: week and save you that atmosphere because there's nothing in
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: world Roagby like it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Elliott looking forward to it. Thank you very much, Liam,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: and thanks to Dan good One for putting this podcast together.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: It has been Rugby Direct. Thanks to our friends at
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Access Solutions lifting you and your business to a higher level.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: We will see you next week
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk set B listen live on air
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio