Latest / Eh Sayers / Canada’s Happiness Crisis (And Why It’s Not All Doom and Gloom)
Transcript
- Max: Welcome to Eh Sayers, a podcast by Statistics Canada, where we meet the people behind the data and explore the stories behind the numbers. I'm your host Max Zimmerman. Have you ever randomly asked someone if they're happy in life? In preparing for this episode, I started doing just that. And let me tell you, it's a weird question to spring on people. People look at you a little funny and understandably so. It is a simple and harmless question on its surface, but it cuts deep at our personal feelings. People rightly wanted to know why I was asking, and I had no good reason to tell them. But I'm not the only one that's asking about the life satisfaction of Canadians. The quality of life field is gaining momentum among researchers. And here at StatCan, my colleagues in the Quality of Life Statistics Program are telling a fascinating story about the current levels of wellbeing and life satisfaction being reported by Canadians. Today I sat down with Jenneke Le Moullec, chief of the Quality of Life Statistics Program here at Statistics Canada, along with Danny Graham, who's the Chief Engagement Officer at Engage Nova Scotia, a Halifax based nonprofit dedicated to improving the quality of life, wellbeing, and resilience of all Nova Scotia residents. I asked them what the latest data says about how happy we are. I also asked them to explain to a lay person like me, how we even measure life satisfaction when everyone must have a different definition of it. I also find out how their team's data is being used in the real world to improve our quality of life. It's a good one. I hope you enjoy. Without further ado, here's our conversation. Hi Jenneke, thanks for coming on the show. Can you set the stage for us, what are researchers like you and your team seeing in the quality of life, wellbeing and life satisfaction space these days? Jenneke: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks very much, i'm, happy to be here. So we track the percentage of Canadians who report a high level of life satisfaction in this data reveals that life satisfaction continues to decline in Canada. Max: Mm. Jenneke: So although about half the Canadians do still report high life satisfaction, it's reported that actually between summer 2021 and spring 2025, life satisfaction decreased by an average of 2.2 percentage points per year. So that's quite notable actually. We found that close association with decline in life satisfaction and affordability as well. So in spring of 2025, Canadians who reported financial difficulty were actually about half as likely to report high life satisfaction as those without. So that's 28% versus 58%,, which is quite notable, I would say. Max: Okay. Yeah. And these findings are significant, but I don't think they're gonna come as a surprise to a lot of Canadians because as I was hearing it, I was thinking this is sort of the lived experience of so many of us. And so I think that people are going to hear some of the stats that you're saying today and they're gonna think like, yeah, this pretty much checks out with how life has been feeling for me lately. But Danny, I'd like to get you in here. Could you tell us what these topics mean to you? I mean, we're talking about quality of life, wellbeing, life satisfaction, happiness. These are all a bit subjective, and I was wondering just in terms of what these terms mean to you in the purposes of your work, and maybe personally as well. Danny: There's a lot in there, but I'll give you a general overview perspective, and that is that it means something a little bit different to every single individual. And the experience of it is unique to whether or not you're unhoused or can put food on the table or whether or not you have all of the material goods, but you're lonely and you actually don't have the opportunity to actually have good relationships with people who are all around you. For me, thanks for the question. Oh, it's about a good relationship with myself, having good, strong relationships with those around me and actually being humbly part of, you know, the natural world, which is abundant. And if it were speaking back to us probably would saying we're not living up to our end of the bargain about what it means to live a strong and happy harmonious life in the ecosystem that we're in. Max: Okay. And we've learned in this episode already that StatCan has been producing new data in this field, the quality of life field. And I'm wondering that's at the national level, what about the regional level for you at Engage Nova Scotia? Like what's the latest data saying that you're producing over there? Danny: It started with a survey of Nova Scotians that was administered through an invitation in people's mailboxes to participate in a 230 question survey across eight domains of wellbeing that we can break down if you like, in terms of what each of them is pointing to. And we became quite excited by the volume and the stories that, and it's ultimately the stories that show up in the responses that we received from our 2019 dataset. So we received almost 13,000 responses to those 230 questions. Max: Wow. Danny: Yeah. Issues that are catching our attention the most that don't receive airtime relate to topics of social connections. So, trust loneliness, friendships are absolutely critical to people's wellbeing. And what also came out in our in the dataset that we assembled is that connections to the natural world are fundamental to our wellbeing and our sense of separation from that natural world is that is one of the most important drivers of declining life satisfaction, reduced mental health, and related issues. Max: So Jenneke, we know how important it is to research these topics, obviously. And I'm curious exactly how it is that we measure them. 'cause concept like quality of life, wellbeing, life satisfaction, these things seem to me to be hard to track, or at least precisely because of how subjective they are. And I know you touched on that in the beginning you said that there's also some objective measures. But more specifically the subjective ones, like, I'm just curious how it is that we even measure them. Jenneke: Yeah. So, subjective measures, absolutely. They're, they're really fascinating for, researchers and analysts like us trying to figure out how to measure them. Happiness is one of those key concepts, and that's one of the, the central ones in the quality of life framework. As I said, it reflects not only what people have, but how do they feel. So how do we measure that type of a thing? So one of the actually most widely ways that's used to measure this is through the life satisfaction question. So that question, it's fairly simple, but at the same time it's really powerful tool. So we ask people to rate how they feel about their life as a whole on a scale from zero to 10. So where zero is very dissatisfied and 10 means very satisfied. When we ask this question of enough people, we actually get a very accurate measure of overall happiness. So that's within a community, within a province and nationally. And interestingly, we're able to compare those changes over time as well. Max: Cool. And what are some of the limitations in conducting this latest ICS study? Because, I mean, obviously subjectivity is one variable, but what are some other challenges that you ran into? Jenneke: Certainly. So we know that measuring happiness isn't perfect. There's challenges that come with these sort of subjective measures. You know, people interpret these types of questions differently. So this can be based on culture, personality or even what type of day they're having. You know, in the moment. So that's why we don't rely on that one measure at all, we combine it with other indicators. So going back to what I was saying about, you know, there's, there's 91 indicators in the framework, there's a lot of sort of interrelated pieces at play, and it's that holistic view, that helps us sort of get that picture. Max: Yeah, that's really good to know because when I read the study I was thinking. If I'm measuring someone's happiness, like did they have their coffee this morning? You know, when they answered the question. I feel like you could ask someone these questions on any given day or any even hour of the day, and it could be a completely different answer. So yeah, it's, it's cool to know that. And Danny, just from, from my layman perspective, I read the news and I hear about quality of life and stuff like that, and it's always centered around housing crisis, affordability, crisis. And of course all these economic, tangible things are incredibly important don't mean to diminish it at all, but like you said, connection to nature, connection to fellow human beings, that kind of thing is, it's not necessarily the most glamorous thing to report on, I suppose. So, yeah, I, I mean, I guess it gets missed a lot in the conversation. And, something that I wanted to ask you about is like aside from just the fact that we're experiencing such a high cost of living these days, I mean, we're all feeling it. Is it just a matter of weathering this economic storm and then life is gonna go back to being, you know, wellbeing's gonna rise again, life satisfaction's gonna go up? Or, or is it more complicated? And I think, I think you just touched on that, but I don't know if you wanna elaborate any further? Danny: Yeah, let me just, make sure that I'm clear on some of the points that you've made related to the things that hit the news. And you are absolutely right that, you know, good life is much more about just dollars and cents. And for some it is indeed about dollars and cents and having a roof over your head. So it's a really interesting thing where, there's a lot of talk about affordability. But those people, according to our research and data and, and what shows up in our tools that are most affected by affordability are people whose who aren't earning a living wage. So anybody earning a, from the mid forties thousands of dollars and below are struggling at such striking different levels than the rest of the population across all of the domains that we have. And indeed people who are insecurely housed, again, same issue. So much starts with good housing, especially for families being led by single parents, for example, who are often at intergenerational renters of property that don't get their, don't find their opportunity to get on the opportunity highway of a higher education and those sorts of things, which indeed, are additionally high leverage points for a good life. So are we gonna weather the storm and will it return to normal? It will depend on the choices that we make, frankly. And from our perspective, it will depend on whether or not we're asking the right questions. And so if we think that the only problem, and it is a challenge right now in Canada, is productivity and a healthy, strong, and even autonomous economy, those are important things. But, without attention to the lived experiences, particularly for communities of people who have been systemically and structurally barriered from the opportunities that are have been available to people like me for all of my life. Then we're not gonna actually catch up to these kinds of, the kinds of solutions that build more resilience, greater happiness and improved mental wellbeing for our young adults. Max: Yeah, that's so well said. And I'm just taking that all in because it's so important to, you know, really produce high quality data on this stuff instead of it just being a concept. There's a feeling or a vibe, but to actually know that the work is being done, that there's a, like rising momentum from researchers and people are taking interest in this, it's just nice, it feels validating. And so, I guess that leads me to one of the things that I've been burning to ask you, which is if I were to ask for Danny Graham's ideal plan, what do you think is the most urgent or maybe a few of the most pressing matters that we could or are doing to improve quality of life for Canadians? Danny: Whew. So we can't fix a problem that we don't understand. And I wanna say while we at Engage have done what we consider to be a groundbreaking job of measuring what's what are the perceptions, experiences, and behaviors of our citizens. And created that three dimensional, full suite of data. We have mined it, we've looked at it and there are themes. This notion of social connections, number quality of friendships, experiences of loneliness, experiences of discrimination, trust in each other, hugely important. The populations of people who we should be paying attention to extensively are young adults, families being led by single parents, people who identify as being part of the 2SLBGTQIA+ community, indigenous and other racialized communities of people who are experiencing this and have been for a longer period of time more profoundly than others. So those are the, those are the communities of people we need to be paying particular attention to. And then the other thing is just sort of time adequacy and slowing down and being in connection with nature. And that might sound like fluffy stuff to some of your listeners about it. But, the research simply shows that the more time we spend in nature, being respectful of and connected to the natural world, the more we're able to act in a way that serves us and serves the other humans who are in our communities on a consistent basis. So, no prescriptions yet I could be dead wrong on what the highest and best priorities are right away. But let me point finally to the, to the big idea, and it is this. From our perspective at Engage Nova Scotia. I don't think we're going to get to where we need to be in our understanding without two things: One, more robust, three-dimensional, ambitious measuring of how Canadians are really doing. And that involves large surveys, large samples. We need to get there. And then frankly, once we're confident about how to apply artificial intelligence in a safe methodologically sound way to our understanding of things, we, we will not get to the level of understanding that we need to build healthier, stronger societies without those two things happening. More robust, substantial wellbeing measurement, and strong tools that quickly give us insights that don't otherwise exist. Max: From my perspective on the outside looking in, the thoughtfulness that goes into these decisions and just the way that you talk about it in general is, is really encouraging to me. It's, it's, it's nice to know that the organizations like Statistics Canada, like Engage Nova Scotia, are really taking a measured, thoughtful approach to how they're measuring the data and what they're gonna be using the data for. And it's not just... it's not just collecting data and disseminating it for the sake of it, it's, it's really meant to be useful to Canadians in a way that is, is profound. And so it's just awesome to hear. And where does Canada sit in all this compared to the rest of the world? Are these trends that we're seeing now more pronounced in Canada? Jenneke: These findings and sort of what we've been talking about today, they align with observations that we saw in the 2024 World Happiness Report, , where unfortunately, younger adults were fairing worse in Canada relative to other countries, with Canada actually ranking 58th among participating countries for happiness of those under 30 years old. Max: Okay. Jenneke: This compares to eighth place amongst adults that are older. So age 60 and above. And this report, the 2024 World Happiness Report, it's published by the Wellbeing Research Center and the University of Oxford in partnership with Gallup, the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, and also an independent editorial board. Max: We know that there are areas of concern, but it's also encouraging to me to know that StatCan is producing data on this and that they're taking interest in these trends. Do you have any positive news for us on these fronts as well? Jenneke: Yeah, I do actually. So the biggest story I would say here isn't just about challenges, it's actually about progress as well. So Canada's quality of life framework, it's now reaching a major milestone, with its 91 indicators that have been fully defined, and then data available for the vast majority of these. So this means that researchers, policymakers, analysts, they have a much richer evidence base to understand wellbeing in all of its dimensions I had mentioned before. So prosperity, to health, society, good governance and the environment. And this matters, it matters because clear consistent indicators and quality of data are the foundation for meaningful action. They help us move from these broad concepts such as quality of life, wellbeing, happiness to concrete insights and help us understand sort of where Canadians are thriving and where more support might be needed. It helps transform these big picture ideas into things that are concrete, and can help with real improvements. Max: And Danny, why is it so important for organizations like Statistics Canada and Engage Nova Scotia to collaborate in tackling these challenges, like the issues of quality of life? Danny: I can remember just how I felt in my one and only stats class when I did an undergrad, degree, is that you think of statistics as dry, boring data. And too often it is that. But if you collect it in a way that animates the stories, again, the perceptions, experiences, and behaviors of everyone. Then it is the, the ultimate public engagement exercise. It's surfacing the soul of our communities. And there are ways now to express that soul and to do things that are impactful. But it's not gonna be just Engage Nova Scotia and Statistics Canada and any other government departments by themselves. I often share this troubling data point about life satisfaction for young adults in, in Canada, having dropped over 15 years more than any other of 130 countries that were also being measured other than Afghanistan, Venezuela, Jordan, and Lebanon. We are truly in a crisis about life satisfaction amongst young Canadians. If for no other reason than to begin to understand what's causing that? And stop the guessing, somebody's gonna quickly say affordability, pandemic, social media, climate anxiety, and they may be all partially true, but we have no means of understanding why that's happening. And if we're not more ambitious about really digging into how to measure, understand, and activate solutions to that, then we will remain not just flatfooted, but on our heels. Max: Finally, Danny, I just wanted to ask you, are there any misconceptions that you can think of in the quality of life space that you would want Canadians to know? Danny: Yeah, I, I think that a misperception is that it has an agenda underneath it. And there is no agenda. The agenda includes, overarching, healthy, stronger, more vibrant, inclusive societies. It's about a stronger economy that gives us greater sovereignty and self-determination. It's about good relationships with everyone. So, there's no particular agenda that's, that's social economic or environmental. It is. Common sense as somebody described to me at Simon Fraser not too long ago. It should be plainly obvious to us that leaning into surveys and understanding about how are we really doing? If it's good and reliable data, is the most important first step for us to sort of address the problems that we're having, difficulty understanding. So, as the the back of my business, my new business card says in our case here in Nova Scotia. If you share your story, take the survey, you'll be seeding a future that's better for everyone in our province, and eventually we hope across Canada. Max: If people would like to learn more about the quality of life space, wellbeing, life satisfaction, all the topics we talked about, and the work that you're doing at Engage Nova Scotia, where could they go? Danny: EngageNovascotia.ca would be one. Canadian Index of Wellbeing would be another. Canadian Wellbeing Knowledges network would be another. Obviously, the Statistics Canada quality of life hub. The O-E-C-D-W-I-S-E website is fantastic for this area. Yeah, or just reach out with an email, if they wanted to and explore, with us and me at Engage Nova Scotia, how this could be relevant for others in their community. So our independent board of directors is paying attention to in their excitement about what we're doing in Nova Scotia. The implied responsibility that we think we have to sort of help others who are interested to advance wellbeing in a thoughtful, deep way like us. So if folks have an interest then just reach out to me or others on our team at Engage Nova Scotia to start a conversation. Max: Well, Danny, thank you so much. It's been a fascinating conversation. I know I've learned a bunch and I hope that the listeners have as well. So thanks for your time and your expertise. Danny: Thanks Max. All the best. Max: And Jenneke, if people would like to learn more about quality of life, wellbeing, life satisfaction, these topics, where could they go? Jenneke: Yeah, so the Quality of Life framework, the data for it, the Quality of Life Statistics program is available on the Statistics Canada website actually. So that's actually something that's really cool about the program is that the information, the data are available for all decision makers and Canadians alike. The website is really a one-stop shop for all the data. So users can explore national and provinal breakdowns, time trends, demographic insights. The hub also includes interactive dashboards, downloadable data, and visualizations that make it easy to compare indicators across regions, and then also track changes over time. Max: Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for your time and your expertise. Jenneke: Great. Thank you. Max: You've been listening to Eh Sayers. Thank you to our guests, Jenneke Le Moullec and Danny Graham. If you'd like to learn more about life satisfaction, quality of life or wellbeing, visit the link in our show notes where you can find the work of both Jenneke and Danny. This podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts. There you can also find the French version of our show called Hé-coutez bien! If you like this show, please rate, review and subscribe. And as always, thanks for listening!