Latest / Karl and Crew / Breaking Unhealthy Cycles in Marriage with Dr. Greg Smalley & The Untold Story of C.S. Lewis with Bruce Johnson

Transcript

Breaking Unhealthy Cycles in Marriage with Dr. Greg Smalley & The Untold Story of C.S. Lewis with Bruce Johnson · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond its curling crew.
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  S1: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
• 0:11
  S1: impossible and live. As you never imagined delivering the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S2: and you're forfeiting your soul, there's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
• 0:29
  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ. Love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
• 0:44
  S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
• 0:48
  S1: and Crew. So the fraud saga continues on.
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  S5: Dot dot dot dot com.
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  S2: Uh oh.
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  S5: Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. So I get these
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  S5: emails now. First I get text messages and I bit. Well,
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  S5: I didn't bite, but it looked pretty official. So I
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  S5: just thought, you know what, if there's anything to this
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  S5: at all, they'll get back with me again. Then I
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  S5: get an email and the emails from my bank. I'm
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  S5: not going to tell you the bank. They got a
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  S5: they got to get a clamp down on this thing.
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  S5: I'll tell you that right now. But I get an
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  S5: email and I mean, it is my bank or so
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  S5: it appears. So I give them a call fraud alert
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  S5: guy and I give him a call. And the guy says,
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  S5: how can we help you? I said, you should know
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  S5: how to help me, right? I mean, come on.
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  S2: Did you call the number from the email or did
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  S2: you call a number that you had already.
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  S5: From the email? From the email? Okay. So I, I
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  S5: gave it a call and I mean, it was good.
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  S5: It was good. It even had some metadata that looked
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  S5: for real. And as you can imagine, where this went was,
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  S5: I mean, this guy couldn't tell me why I was
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  S5: calling him. Well, of course you can, because he's got
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  S5: my number. And, uh, I gave him the last four.
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  S5: That's real simple because that's no problem. But he said, uh,
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  S5: you know, I'm going to need some more information from you.
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  S5: And I'm like, nah, man, I'm not going to give
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  S5: you any more information. I'm going to hold off on that. So, uh,
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  S5: I let that go and just kind of write that off.
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  S5: A week and a half goes by now and I
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  S5: get a letter at home. And the letter is from
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  S5: my bank. I mean, it's got the goods in it.
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  S2: Okay.
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  S5: And usually these fraud guys aren't sending out snail mail
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  S5: from a bank with a window and all that stuff
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  S5: and all the important things in it. So I compare
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  S5: the number with the number on the back of my card,
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  S5: and sure enough. So I give him a call and
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  S5: I said, hey, I'm calling because I got this fraud
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  S5: alert thing going on. And he said, all right, well,
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  S5: let me give you the information. I said, you know what, man?
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  S5: I'm starting to get freaked out. How do I know
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  S5: that you're even at Bank of America? I almost said it.
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  S5: I'll say it. How do I know you're a Bank
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  S5: of America? I'll just say it. I'll just lay it
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  S5: out there. And he said, well, that's a good question.
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  S5: Super nice guy. And I said, I'm getting the yips. Now,
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  S5: I don't know who's who out there. And he said
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  S5: to me, by the way, the rest of the story
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  S5: is somebody had tried to buy. Apparently, Jonathan tried to
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  S5: buy a video game on this account that I had.
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  S2: Jonathan.
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  S6: Oh, okay. It was me.
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  S5: Just. Yeah, dude, you can't be using my card for
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  S5: stuff like that.
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  S3: Okay, give me your card, bro.
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  S5: And it didn't go through because it looked suspicious. So
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  S5: they tried it. Ready for this? Not one time more,
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  S5: not two times more, but 13 times more.
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  S3: Oh my goodness.
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S5: They kept hitting it. They kept hitting it. Okay, so
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  S5: I'm talking to this guy and I said, dude, Meister.
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  S5: That's what I said. I said, this is crazy. He's laughing.
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  S5: I go, I don't even trust you. He goes, I
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  S5: am so with you, Carl. Call me by my name.
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  S5: He said, I'm. He actually called me Mr. Claussen. I'm so.
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  S5: I'm so with you, Mr. Claussen. I work in this
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  S5: department and I don't even know how to sort it
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  S5: out anymore at my. In my personal stuff, he said,
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  S5: I work in fraud. These guys are getting that good.
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  S3: That's scary.
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  S5: So as it turns out, it appears that somehow they knew.
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  S5: Maybe it was the guys that were trying to pass
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  S5: the fraud. You see what I'm saying? They could have
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  S5: been fishing that way. So they throw a $34.99 cent
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  S5: purchase for a piece of, you know, gaming device or
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  S5: some game software. And they see that and they where
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  S5: they put that up, now they know, okay, he's going
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  S5: to get hit with fraud. So we get out in
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  S5: front of it because the one number that I did
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  S5: talk to the guy sure enough tests out as a
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  S5: fraud number, phone number. It's it's a wild world out there.
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  S5: And now in the last few days, we're getting more
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  S5: and more alerts that they're getting more and more creative.
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  S5: I mean, it's getting crazy guys.
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  S2: Yeah. I mean, that kind of stuff is it's disorienting
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  S2: because you're you want to be on high alert. So
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  S2: I mean, I think the, the biggest takeaway and if
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  S2: to help, I guess, protect yourself is to never use
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  S2: the link, you obviously don't open links and emails you
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  S2: don't recognize.
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  S5: Never, never, never.
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  S2: Don't call the numbers and emails or that you don't.
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  S2: That you're a little suspicious. So I guess the best
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  S2: thing to do is to go and get the number
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  S2: for the bank fraud.
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  S5: Go to the back of the card.
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  S2: Yeah. Off of your card. Because then you know that
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  S2: you're talking to somebody who's legitimate, who can help you
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  S2: sort it out. But anything else, you're wise to be suspicious.
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  S5: Yes. Gotta be suspicious.
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  S2: Don't give information over the phone of any kind.
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  S5: Oh, I'm gonna do some self-deprecating humor here. Some of
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  S5: you might laugh at me, but I got the first
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  S5: time I got sucked in to this thing was. Oh,
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  S5: goodness sakes, what was this 15 years ago? I mean,
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  S5: maybe 20. Yeah, it was probably 20 years ago now.
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  S5: I get this email on my Mac and it says,
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  S5: your Mac has been compromised. And, you know, if you,
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  S5: you know, and it looks so stinking official, we want
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  S5: to clear out all this stuff. Just pop us 49.95.
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  S5: So I popped him 49.95. My son walks in from
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  S5: something and I said, oh man, I've had a day.
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  S5: He goes, what's going on? I told him, what's going on?
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  S5: He goes, dad, you just bought. You just bought. You
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  S5: purchased spyware and they are spying on you. You purchased
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  S5: a portal into your computer. I said, you are kidding me, son.
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  S5: And that was when it was really heating up. Yeah.
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  S5: Just starting. And I haven't taken the bait since then.
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  S5: And you don't want to give information to anyone over
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  S5: the phone unless you know what's going down. But my.
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  S5: And by the way, getting that unwound. Oh my goodness.
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  S5: I'm so glad I had my son there because it's
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  S5: like oh my goodness. It just we live in a
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  S5: world today. It just feels like everybody's scamming. And now
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  S5: they aren't. But it feels like everybody's scamming.
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  S2: Yeah. And that you have to be you have to
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  S2: be on high alert in a way that's sometimes, um,
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  S2: I mean, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm the only one
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  S2: who feels this, but sometimes you have to throw niceties
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  S2: out a little bit.
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  S5: Oh, yeah.
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  S2: And so your, your impulse to want to be, like,
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  S2: friendly and congenial.
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  S5: Yes.
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  S2: And trusting you kind of have to keep it business
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  S2: to make sure that you protect yourself. I mean, and
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  S2: you don't like I don't like doing that. But I mean,
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  S2: if I get a call from a number that I
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  S2: don't recognize, I am off that phone in two seconds. I,
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  S2: I say thank you so much. I don't take these
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  S2: calls and I hang up. I don't, I don't engage
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  S2: in any way in a conversation.
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  S5: I just dump them. If it's if it's a call
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  S5: that I did not have in my phone, I dump it.
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  S2: That's probably even.
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  S5: Wiser to find a better though. If they really need me,
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  S5: they'll find another way to get Ahold of me.
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  S3: I always, uh, I never answer a phone call I
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  S3: don't recognize, uh, unless I'm expecting one, obviously. And I
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  S3: wait to see if they leave a voicemail. If they
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  S3: leave a voicemail, I know they need to talk to me.
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  S3: And even scams do that sometimes, but you can always
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  S3: tell when a scam leaves a voicemail that it's a scam.
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  S3: It just seems more obvious than than anything else. So I,
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  S3: I just never answer them and I wait to see
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  S3: if they're gonna leave a voicemail or if they're just
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  S3: gonna not call me back. Yeah.
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  S5: My bride's uncle gave me a call, I dumped him,
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  S5: and then he left a voicemail. He's like, hey, just
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  S5: got something I want to talk to you about. I'm like, okay.
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  S3: You're like, oh, it's a real person.
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  S5: Yeah, it sounded like him. He's from Scotland and he
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  S5: had the accent and everything, so and it was a
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  S5: good accent. You start getting paranoid, though. And this is
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  S5: why we just got a text in here. This is
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  S5: absolutely heartbreaking. My father lost 500 K from scammers.
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  S3: Yeah, it's more and more common.
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  S2: Wow.
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  S5: And these guys have a seared conscience, man. Absolutely seared.
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  S5: We need to get a scam professional on here. You know.
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  S2: That. I think this has come up a couple of times.
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  S2: And someone just said, are you guys open to doing
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  S2: a scam protection series? Practical application and spiritual. That's a
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  S2: great idea.
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  S3: Yeah, I like it.
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  S5: Well, it's the latter part that we want to tackle
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  S5: coming up here in a moment, because did you know
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  S5: that Paul was a fraud specialist and he could spot it?
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  S5: And he literally wrote letters, one in particular to a
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  S5: church about you've been scammed. And that's something. So fraud
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  S5: been going on forever. The prince of the power of
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  S5: the air is gnarly man as Leanna Crawford. Good morning,
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  S5: boom crew.
• 10:44
  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 10:47
  S5: Yeah. You see God everywhere around us. It's Carl and crew,
• 10:51
  S5: you know, fried man. You know, when you start talking
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  S5: about it, it just puts you on alert. And I'm
• 10:57
  S5: not that kind of guy that gets on high alert.
• 10:59
  S5: It's just when you think about fraud and scams, it just.
• 11:04
  S5: It does something to you, doesn't it?
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  S2: Oh, yeah. It makes you you start to not trust anything.
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  S2: You start to get more and more skeptical and even cynical.
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  S5: Man, it's just absolutely crazy. So spiritual fraud alert. 2000
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  S5: years ago, the Church of Galatia. Churches of Galatia had
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  S5: gotten sucked into a spiritual scam. Isn't that funny to
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  S5: talk about spiritual scam. Spiritual scam. And you go in. Well,
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  S5: the first chapter is. Come on, man. How are you
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  S5: abandoning the gospel for another gospel as if there was one.
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  S5: And if anyone brings another gospel to you, let him
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  S5: be accursed. Even an angel brings one to you. Let
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  S5: him be a curse which is heavy duty language. And
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  S5: then you get here into the third chapter and he goes, oh,
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  S5: foolish Galatians! Exclamation point, who has bewitched you? Who scammed you, man?
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  S5: And I'm going to keep reading here. It was before
• 12:10
  S5: your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
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  S5: Let me ask you only this did you receive the
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  S5: Holy Spirit by works of the law or by hearing
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  S5: with faith? Are you so foolish, having begun by the
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  S5: Holy Spirit? Are you now being perfected by the flesh?
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  S5: Did you suffer so many things in vain, if indeed
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  S5: it was in vain. Does he who supplies the spirit
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  S5: to you, and works miracles among you, do so by
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  S5: works of the law, or by hearing with faith, just
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  S5: as Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him
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  S5: as righteousness. This is an epic thing. You know what
• 12:53
  S5: the Church of Galatia had traded in? They had traded
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  S5: in full dependence on Jesus Christ for salvation into external
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  S5: works of the law that either validated, confirmed, or here's
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  S5: the great danger now perpetuated again, that somehow abiding by
• 13:15
  S5: works of the law, primarily circumcision, was the big issue
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  S5: in this book that somehow that could make you right
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  S5: with God. They'd been scammed. They'd started out right, and
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  S5: they'd been scammed. What's your takeaway from this, guys?
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  S2: Well, they knew the truth, but at some point in time,
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  S2: something that was close to the truth but not quite
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  S2: caught their attention.
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  S5: And it came in a person. Now the battle is
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  S5: not against flesh and blood. So you got to ask, well,
• 13:53
  S5: what's going on? So the battle is not against flesh
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  S5: and blood. But the reason Paul says that in Ephesians
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  S5: six is because it would appear that our battle is
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  S5: against flesh and blood. The best kind of illustration I
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  S5: have for this is, is the good old puppet on
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  S5: a string kind of a thing. So you can't see
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  S5: the guy that's above, you know, working the strings. But
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  S5: that's Satan up there. He's he's the guy on the
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  S5: strings and the puppets doing the dancing. And what Satan
• 14:24
  S5: had done brought some Judaizers in who had their knives out, saying,
• 14:29
  S5: come on over here. We're going to do some adult circumcision.
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  S5: What Jesus did in you by the power of the
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  S5: spirit wasn't enough. And what this had the potential to
• 14:40
  S5: do was to take people that had been genuinely born again,
• 14:44
  S5: get them thinking that somehow they're works of righteousness, or
• 14:49
  S5: their actions are going to make them right with God.
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  S5: And now what would have this done? This would lead
• 14:54
  S5: to a whole generation or 2 or 3 or 10
• 14:59
  S5: or 20 that started thinking the Holy Spirit wasn't enough.
• 15:03
  S5: And where does that lead us? Back into what we
• 15:06
  S5: find today? If I can get my behavior changed, if
• 15:10
  S5: I can do the right things, if I can check
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  S5: the box of this, this and this, I must be
• 15:16
  S5: right with God. And you know what God says fraud
• 15:18
  S5: alert and it's the right number. Fraud alert is a
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  S5: big deal. This is huge, isn't it, guys?
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  S2: And reminding them. I mean, I love the series of questions.
• 15:31
  S2: Let me ask you.
• 15:32
  S5: Yeah. Let me ask you. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
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  S2: Like, let's review some things.
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  S5: Let's review.
• 15:38
  S2: Did you receive the spirit by works of the law
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  S2: or by hearing with faith? And then you can imagine
• 15:43
  S2: them thinking and going, okay, I was hearing with faith
• 15:46
  S2: having begun in the in the spirit, are you now
• 15:49
  S2: being perfected by the flesh? And you can imagine the
• 15:51
  S2: wheels starting to turn as they're being reminded, not told
• 15:56
  S2: for the first time, but reminded of the things that
• 15:59
  S2: they know to be true but have moved away from.
• 16:03
  S1: Want to hear that again? Just download the Carl and
• 16:06
  S1: Cru podcast wherever you like to stream.
• 16:09
  S5: Oh my goodness, we got a great text from someone here.
• 16:12
  S5: Rat poison is 99% food and it kills. Oh.
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  S3: Good point.
• 16:20
  S5: Oh, Nelly.
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  S3: So good point.
• 16:25
  S5: Look, here's the deal. Boom! crew. We need to be
• 16:29
  S5: on alert. Satan prowls like a roaring lion. And look,
• 16:38
  S5: the battle is not against flesh and blood. But come on.
• 16:40
  S5: Satan's the puppeteer, and he'll get people dancing, doing the
• 16:43
  S5: whole thing. And in Galatia, man, it was, uh, it
• 16:46
  S5: went from trusting the Holy Spirit into. Nah, man, get
• 16:53
  S5: out the knives. It's really about circumcision, guys. It's about
• 16:57
  S5: external stuff. Paul was so incensed. He said, man, I
• 17:01
  S5: just wish these guys would just take everything off. Yeah.
• 17:05
  S5: Leave the rest to your imagination. It's right in the text.
• 17:08
  S5: Wish they'd just lop everything off. Ooh, that's a brutal statement,
• 17:13
  S5: isn't it?
• 17:14
  S3: It is, but I, I, I like what he's trying
• 17:18
  S3: to communicate when saying if this is what you're going
• 17:19
  S3: to talk about, then please don't procreate. Because continuing this
• 17:24
  S3: line of thought is dangerous.
• 17:26
  S5: Yeah, it's a big deal, guys. It's a big deal,
• 17:31
  S5: you know. Two days until I'm going to be busting
• 17:36
  S5: out a big fraud alert. Yep. And, boy, I gotta
• 17:44
  S5: tell you something. I had a. I had a conversation
• 17:51
  S5: with Chris Fabry and we pre burned a show for him.
• 17:58
  S5: And I don't mind saying that because even in the
• 18:00
  S5: show himself, he says it's pre-recorded and it's going to
• 18:02
  S5: air in a little while, a week or so. I
• 18:05
  S5: had the most holy time with him. Ali.
• 18:08
  S7: Oh, really?
• 18:09
  S5: Yeah. And, you know, he was really honest. He said
• 18:12
  S5: this book you wrote kind of, to be honest with you,
• 18:14
  S5: he said this on air, so I'll say it here.
• 18:16
  S5: He said, man, I was concerned. I thought, whoa, is
• 18:21
  S5: Carl going to is this is this going to put
• 18:24
  S5: people into an undue kind of spiritual questioning of where
• 18:28
  S5: they stand with God? And he was that honest. And
• 18:32
  S5: he said, then I kept reading the whole book. And
• 18:34
  S5: he said, Carl, this is vital. This is so important.
• 18:38
  S5: It was a holy hour. Ali. It was so cool.
• 18:43
  S5: It was so he even played a clip from like
• 18:47
  S5: 21 years ago of Adrian Rogers. And Adrian Rogers goes
• 18:53
  S5: through this whole scenario and he talks about the, um,
• 18:57
  S5: this group of, of beings that can confess and agree and, uh,
• 19:04
  S5: religiously get active and go through. He went, he built
• 19:08
  S5: this whole case and he said, and they are demons
• 19:13
  S5: and they are bound for hell. And we can emulate
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  S5: that same kind of activity in the church if we're
• 19:21
  S5: not careful. Fraud alert man. So I am so well
• 19:26
  S5: aware that this is a bump your cup kind of moment.
• 19:33
  S5: But I want to invite you into just reading. Uh,
• 19:37
  S5: we got two days until this conference launches here. Uh,
• 19:41
  S5: but I want you to read the intro to a
• 19:45
  S5: work that I've recently finished. I want you to. I'm
• 19:49
  S5: just sending it to you free. Sending you the intro.
• 19:51
  S5: It'll bump your cup. It will. But then we're going
• 19:55
  S5: to break it down. The Unstoppable Gospel conference is Saturday,
• 19:59
  S5: and I want to invite you to be there, whether
• 20:02
  S5: it's in person or online. And I think we're going
• 20:07
  S5: to have a holy morning. I think it's going to
• 20:09
  S5: be that good, Ali. I really do.
• 20:11
  S2: We've got a link for you. It's not too late.
• 20:12
  S2: If you can get here in person or if a
• 20:15
  S2: live stream for most of you just text intro, you'll
• 20:17
  S2: get the intro to the book plus the registration link,
• 20:20
  S2: intro to 805 557898, intro to 805 557898.
• 20:28
  S5: Don't you love Chris Faber's honesty?
• 20:31
  S2: I yes, I am a big I'm a big fan
• 20:33
  S2: of Chris Faber.
• 20:34
  S5: Yeah, it's just a precious. Precious is the right name
• 20:38
  S5: for that guy, man. Good nickname.
• 20:40
  S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl
• 20:44
  S1: and crew.
• 20:45
  S2: Well, cycles can be a great thing, right? The predictability.
• 20:49
  S2: You plant a seed in the ground, you water it,
• 20:53
  S2: and the plant grows over time, right?
• 20:56
  S3: Yeah. It's a good cycle, something you can come to
• 20:58
  S3: expect from that thing.
• 21:00
  S2: And one thing that I've discovered after having perennials planted
• 21:03
  S2: in my yard for the last couple years, somehow, year
• 21:07
  S2: after year, those things come back. You just even if
• 21:11
  S2: I haven't taken great care of them, even if they
• 21:14
  S2: looked like a mess around this time of year where
• 21:16
  S2: everything starts to get brown and fall apart. Around spring,
• 21:20
  S2: I start to see those little buds and those purple
• 21:23
  S2: flowers emerge again. Some cycles are very, very healthy, but
• 21:26
  S2: cycles in marriage oftentimes lead to dysfunction, lead to unhealthy
• 21:34
  S2: patterns that we have to actually break free from. If
• 21:37
  S2: we're going to have the kind of Christian marriages that
• 21:39
  S2: we actually desire. Doctor Greg Smalley joining me this morning,
• 21:43
  S2: vice president of marriage and family formation at focus on
• 21:46
  S2: the family. Forgive my imperfect perennial plant analogy, but cycles
• 21:51
  S2: in marriage often are unhealthy, more so than being healthy,
• 21:56
  S2: am I? Is that a too broad of a statement?
• 21:58
  S8: No, I, I like that as a statement because, you know,
• 22:02
  S8: especially within conflict, we often have these well-worn patterns, these
• 22:08
  S8: cycles that we get into. I can tell you exactly.
• 22:11
  S8: You know, when my wife, Aaron, and I get into conflict,
• 22:13
  S8: I can tell you what she's going to say, how
• 22:15
  S8: she's going to react to me. Same for her. So it's, it's,
• 22:19
  S8: it's definitely around conflict. Something that we need to pay
• 22:23
  S8: attention to is what is our unique cycle as a couple.
• 22:27
  S8: It never seems to get us anywhere.
• 22:29
  S2: Yeah. And what often happens is when we start to
• 22:32
  S2: anticipate what we think our spouse will say, sometimes we
• 22:36
  S2: start to avoid the practice avoidance because we don't want
• 22:40
  S2: to get back on that cycle. Let's talk a little
• 22:43
  S2: bit about the reactive cycle. Greg, what is what is
• 22:47
  S2: that and how do we break it?
• 22:49
  S8: Yeah. You know, that that's a phrase that we use
• 22:52
  S8: to describe every single conflict that happens really in life,
• 22:56
  S8: but especially in marriage. And what happens is something my
• 23:00
  S8: wife might say something or something happens. She does something,
• 23:04
  S8: it pushes my buttons. I don't like that feeling. So
• 23:08
  S8: then I shut down. My heart begins to close. I
• 23:11
  S8: react and then that pushes her buttons, she shuts down
• 23:15
  S8: and then she's reacting. And that's the cycle that we
• 23:19
  S8: just spin around in, in, in. And I tell you, we,
• 23:23
  S8: we all bring these like emotional buttons, these tender spots
• 23:28
  S8: into our marriage. I remember two weeks into our marriage,
• 23:32
  S8: we were just laying in bed one night. So think
• 23:34
  S8: about that two weeks into our marriage. Aaron, my wife says, hey,
• 23:38
  S8: how do you, like, rate me from 0 to 10?
• 23:43
  S8: How well do you think I'm doing as a wife?
• 23:45
  S2: Oh, boy.
• 23:46
  S8: Right. Thank you. Right. That was not fair. But she
• 23:50
  S8: asked it. And so now, you know, most people, 99%
• 23:55
  S8: of people would would say, oh, you're like a 15.
• 23:59
  S8: You're a 20, you know. I didn't say that. I, I,
• 24:02
  S8: I said, oh, well, honey, you're a 9.3 wanting to
• 24:07
  S8: make sure there's a little bit of room left for
• 24:09
  S8: her to do some work and grow in man. That
• 24:14
  S8: hit a button for her because she instantly starts to cry.
• 24:19
  S8: She instantly starts to debate and argue. Criticize me. Those
• 24:23
  S8: are the reactions. Well, then I felt failed. That's my
• 24:27
  S8: big button in our marriage. I want to feel successful.
• 24:30
  S8: I don't want to feel like I'm failing. So I
• 24:32
  S8: feel I felt that moment. That rating her 9.3 was
• 24:37
  S8: me failing. So then I go into reaction mode. I'm
• 24:40
  S8: defending myself and we just started spinning around in a
• 24:45
  S8: cycle that now is well worn within our marriage. I
• 24:48
  S8: think it ended that night. Ali, when she goes, you know,
• 24:52
  S8: I may be a 9.3, but at least I'm not
• 24:55
  S8: a five like you are. So so that that that's
• 25:01
  S8: kind of what we do every couple I'm telling you,
• 25:05
  S8: we all get into this same cycle. Yours may look
• 25:08
  S8: totally different than me and Aaron's, but we all do it.
• 25:12
  S2: Yeah. You know, I'm thinking about my husband and myself.
• 25:15
  S2: We've been married now for 20 years, and it took
• 25:18
  S2: me a lot of years to figure out that I
• 25:23
  S2: shouldn't keep pestering him with questions when he's gone silent,
• 25:29
  S2: when he starts to get really quiet. And I'm like,
• 25:32
  S2: what are you thinking? I know you're thinking something right now.
• 25:36
  S2: And he's like, I'm not. I'm just sitting here. No,
• 25:38
  S2: you're thinking something. And then I would keep wanting to
• 25:44
  S2: push because I needed I felt like the most helpful
• 25:47
  S2: thing was for him to search the depths of his soul,
• 25:51
  S2: to uncover whatever was that his he was that I
• 25:55
  S2: was convinced he was thinking about. Sometimes it absolutely was nothing.
• 26:00
  S2: But I just couldn't accept that as an answer. I've
• 26:04
  S2: learned a little bit now in those years to back
• 26:06
  S2: off a little bit, but not to be too broad
• 26:09
  S2: with our stereotypes. But there do tend to be patterns
• 26:12
  S2: and trends in terms of how husbands react versus how
• 26:16
  S2: wives react. I think I'm probably more typical in wanting
• 26:20
  S2: to say more words. Let's keep talking this through. And
• 26:23
  S2: many husbands are like, can we not talk any more? Two.
• 26:27
  S8: Two general well, no, I would agree completely because I
• 26:32
  S8: think historically those conversations haven't gone well. Yeah. And so
• 26:37
  S8: my wife knows that that when I start to shut down,
• 26:41
  S8: I'm probably going to withdraw and disappear. And we're never
• 26:43
  S8: going to talk through what is important or what we
• 26:46
  S8: need to talk through. And, and, and yet, I tell you,
• 26:50
  S8: one of the greatest things I've learned, James four one says,
• 26:53
  S8: why do we fight? Why do we have arguments? And
• 26:56
  S8: it goes, goes on. James goes on to say, is
• 26:58
  S8: it not the desires that wage war within us? So
• 27:02
  S8: what James is saying is that we, we, We fight.
• 27:05
  S8: We quarrel because there's something else deeper going on. And
• 27:10
  S8: so for for Aaron and I, what what we've now
• 27:13
  S8: learned with the reactive cycle has taught us is that
• 27:17
  S8: it's never the topic, you know, it's never about the finances,
• 27:21
  S8: the kids or jobs or in-laws, whatever the topic is
• 27:25
  S8: that that's not the issue. It's what's happening down deeper
• 27:29
  S8: that that that's what we need to start paying attention to.
• 27:32
  S8: It was the fact that I felt failed because Aaron
• 27:35
  S8: was crying. She didn't like my, you know, 9.3 rating. Yeah.
• 27:40
  S8: And for Aaron, the deeper issues that she felt invalidated.
• 27:44
  S8: She was wanting me to say, oh, honey, you're a
• 27:46
  S8: 20 you know, on a scale of 0 to 10,
• 27:49
  S8: you're amazing. But but when I didn't say that. See
• 27:53
  S8: that just that that made her feel that she doesn't
• 27:56
  S8: measure up, that she's not good enough, that she's not,
• 27:58
  S8: you know, I didn't validate her as a wife. And,
• 28:02
  S8: and that's the stuff that we often miss. We stay
• 28:05
  S8: focused on the topic or we stay focused on our spouses,
• 28:09
  S8: what they're doing, their reactions. And we end up never
• 28:13
  S8: actually addressing the deeper longings for both of us. I
• 28:17
  S8: wanted to feel successful. She wanted to feel validated. And,
• 28:20
  S8: and that's what we've learned is, is okay. So in
• 28:24
  S8: those moments of conflict, how do we shift from blame criticism,
• 28:29
  S8: defending all those reactions and actually start to deal with
• 28:33
  S8: what's really going on under the waterline?
• 28:36
  S2: So let's talk some of those practical solutions. How do
• 28:38
  S2: we start to shift from what you just described?
• 28:42
  S8: Yeah, I love the question because the typical solution is
• 28:46
  S8: either I need to correct Erin's behavior, get her not
• 28:50
  S8: to be so critical, you know, get her not to
• 28:53
  S8: be so emotional, quit using so many words, you know,
• 28:57
  S8: so I'm either trying to correct her behavior or I'm, I'm,
• 29:03
  S8: I'm just wanting to power through that conversation and either
• 29:06
  S8: one of those never work. And so actually the, the
• 29:10
  S8: first step is, is Matthew seven where Jesus says, you hypocrite,
• 29:15
  S8: why do you look at the dust in your brother's
• 29:18
  S8: eye and pay no attention to the log in your
• 29:20
  S8: own eye? And he's telling us to first deal with you,
• 29:23
  S8: deal with the log eye instead of trying to relationally
• 29:27
  S8: work out whatever we need to within our conflict that
• 29:31
  S8: that we're not ready for that. First and foremost, I
• 29:34
  S8: need to deal with me and get my heart back open.
• 29:37
  S8: And that means taking a time out. That means pausing.
• 29:40
  S8: That means going to the Lord, putting some Christian good
• 29:44
  S8: music on that I love to listen to. I need
• 29:47
  S8: to spend some time with the Lord getting my heart
• 29:50
  S8: back open, saying, yeah, what am I feeling right now? Oh,
• 29:53
  S8: I'm feeling failed. God, let me take that to you.
• 29:57
  S8: Lord help me. And that's, that's what I love about
• 29:59
  S8: the Lord is that that he's so faithful to help
• 30:03
  S8: us deal with, with our own stuff, our own junk,
• 30:06
  S8: our reactions, our, our buttons. And then when I do
• 30:10
  S8: that work and get my heart back open, see, now
• 30:13
  S8: I'm safe. You know the verse, you know, deal with
• 30:16
  S8: you first then. So there's a let me get my
• 30:19
  S8: heart back open. Now I'm safe enough to to engage
• 30:23
  S8: Aaron again and, and repair whatever that we need to,
• 30:26
  S8: to repair. But that that's often the step that, that
• 30:31
  S8: we're not taught. Instead of trying to work it out relationally, first,
• 30:35
  S8: the individuals need to deal with them with the Lord
• 30:38
  S8: and get their hearts back open.
• 30:39
  S2: Yeah. And is that, you know, we talk a lot
• 30:42
  S2: about on the show. Um, you know, not settling for
• 30:46
  S2: a glorified roommate sort of status, which is it's very
• 30:49
  S2: easy in any marriage, but certainly in, in Christian marriages where,
• 30:52
  S2: you know, you've, you've made the commitment. We're, we're going
• 30:55
  S2: to stick it out no matter what. And so it's
• 30:58
  S2: sort of this we're not going to continue to deal
• 31:00
  S2: with those things anymore. We're going to stay committed to
• 31:03
  S2: each other. But this is about as good as it
• 31:05
  S2: can get, which is certainly not the picture of marriage
• 31:09
  S2: that the Lord had in mind. So is that what's
• 31:12
  S2: key to to really building intimacy? Is, is our heart
• 31:16
  S2: right before the Lord first, before we even try to
• 31:19
  S2: address each other?
• 31:20
  S8: Yeah, I, I would look at it this way that,
• 31:22
  S8: that a big part of marriage is making sure that
• 31:26
  S8: the two individuals, I always say in a marriage, there's
• 31:29
  S8: three things that have to be paid attention to and
• 31:31
  S8: cared for all the time, the two individuals and the relationship.
• 31:36
  S8: So all three of those have to matter. So, so
• 31:39
  S8: within conflict, as an individual, I need to make sure
• 31:43
  S8: my heart's open. You know, we when Aaron and I
• 31:46
  S8: are trying to connect so we don't feel like roommates,
• 31:49
  S8: I need to make sure that as an individual that
• 31:52
  S8: I'm caring for me so that I actually have something
• 31:55
  S8: to give to her. And so anytime that I'm doing
• 32:00
  S8: some good, godly self-care that I'm making sure that I
• 32:02
  S8: have something to give to her. That's a great thing.
• 32:06
  S8: So I need to matter in a marriage and my
• 32:09
  S8: well being, making sure that I'm plugged into the Lord,
• 32:11
  S8: that I'm full, whole, and healthy. Aaron's on that same journey,
• 32:15
  S8: but then we need to make sure that we're also
• 32:18
  S8: giving good time and effort into our, our marriage. And that's,
• 32:21
  S8: that's kind of what you were talking about. Because who
• 32:24
  S8: wants who got married to feel like roommates? Yeah. You know,
• 32:27
  S8: I didn't get married standing up the altar going, man,
• 32:30
  S8: I can't wait till all we do is talk about
• 32:33
  S8: work and who's going to pick up what from the
• 32:36
  S8: store and talk about our kids and the finances like
• 32:39
  S8: no one envisioned that we envision a connected marriage. And
• 32:45
  S8: that does take time. So is the two individuals are
• 32:47
  S8: well cared for. That gives us the energy then to go, okay,
• 32:51
  S8: so now how do we make sure that our our
• 32:54
  S8: marriage is strong and, and I, I tell you, one
• 32:57
  S8: of my favorite tips. This is what Aaron and I,
• 33:00
  S8: we do this all the time. We make sure that
• 33:02
  S8: we have a daily ten minute connection to where we're
• 33:07
  S8: not talking logistics, we're not talking kids, we're not talking finances.
• 33:12
  S8: What we're doing is we're exploring and asking about the
• 33:17
  S8: our spouses inner life. What was the high of your
• 33:20
  S8: day and the low of your day? That's what Aaron
• 33:22
  S8: and I do. We just did that for ten minutes.
• 33:24
  S8: We make sure at some point in time, maybe over dinner,
• 33:28
  S8: maybe right before we go to bed, that that we're
• 33:31
  S8: staying current. We're always changing. And so we're because of that,
• 33:35
  S8: I want to stay updated and current. That means I
• 33:38
  S8: need to be asking my wife. She needs to do
• 33:41
  S8: that with me as well. How are you really doing
• 33:44
  S8: on the inside? How are you feeling? What are you
• 33:46
  S8: stressed out about? What are you dreaming about? Those kinds
• 33:50
  S8: of things that keeps us connected that ten minutes a day.
• 33:54
  S2: Yeah. Doctor Greg Smalley, vice president of marriage and family
• 33:57
  S2: at family formation at focus on the family, also author
• 34:00
  S2: of almost 20 books. He also has a podcast. We
• 34:03
  S2: want to get you connected with more of his resources.
• 34:05
  S2: Him and his wife, Erin co-hosts the podcast just text
• 34:08
  S2: small to (800) 555-7898. Text small to 805 557898.
• 34:17
  S1: Celebrating the unstoppable gospel.
• 34:21
  S3: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes,
• 34:23
  S3: so he's okay with me, but it's that I get
• 34:25
  S3: to stand close to him so that I can experience
• 34:28
  S3: the life that he has for me.
• 34:30
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 34:32
  S2: You may be familiar with works like Chronicles of Narnia,
• 34:35
  S2: The Screwtape Letters. Those were some of C.S. Lewis's most
• 34:38
  S2: popular books. But before he was one of the world's
• 34:41
  S2: most influential Christian writers, there's a part of his life,
• 34:45
  S2: his story, that is lesser known, and we're going to
• 34:48
  S2: dig into it a little bit with our guest, Bruce Johnson.
• 34:51
  S2: He is the author of a new book, From Airman
• 34:54
  S2: to Aslan with C.S. Lewis. Okay, so there's a military
• 34:58
  S2: aspect of C.S. Lewis's life that doesn't really get talked
• 35:02
  S2: about as much. Tell us a little bit about that
• 35:04
  S2: and what attracted you to this part of his story?
• 35:07
  S9: Well, Lewis himself was a veteran of the First World War,
• 35:10
  S9: and in the Second World War, the RAF came knocking
• 35:13
  S9: on his door and asked him to help out because
• 35:15
  S9: they did not have enough Air Force chaplains. So he
• 35:18
  S9: came on as a lay lecturer for them and spent
• 35:20
  S9: more than four years doing that.
• 35:22
  S2: So based on your research and your digging into this,
• 35:25
  S2: how did those experiences shape his writing?
• 35:29
  S9: We began to discover a few things about himself. Most importantly,
• 35:33
  S9: he discovered that he wasn't good at talking to non-academic
• 35:36
  S9: audiences on any long term basis. He'd never done that before.
• 35:40
  S9: So he made a number of mistakes. His first RAF
• 35:43
  S9: talk in 1941 did not connect with his audience at all,
• 35:47
  S9: and unfortunately, he did not realize he failed to connect
• 35:51
  S9: with them. So he really had a long ways to
• 35:53
  S9: go as a communicator.
• 35:55
  S2: Why did this interest you? How did you find this
• 35:59
  S2: and start to explore?
• 36:00
  S9: Our older daughter, Shelly, was admitted to the US Air
• 36:03
  S9: Force Academy, and after that I began meeting a number
• 36:07
  S9: of Air Force chaplains, and I found none of them
• 36:09
  S9: knew anything about C.S. Lewis. And I thought that was
• 36:11
  S9: a shame, didn't it, Lewis do something with the RAF?
• 36:14
  S9: Back in the day. So I began researching that and
• 36:18
  S9: found a lot of military records in different archives that
• 36:22
  S9: told the story more. And there were some chaplains who
• 36:25
  S9: had recorded some things. So we put all that together
• 36:28
  S9: in one book for mainly for the RAF chaplains branch.
• 36:31
  S2: Bruce Johnson with us right now, general editor of the C.S.
• 36:34
  S2: Lewis Journal. He also has spent decades of work as
• 36:38
  S2: a Presbyterian pastor. So talk a little bit about your
• 36:42
  S2: own background and why you feel like telling these kind
• 36:46
  S2: of stories matters?
• 36:48
  S9: I think it matters because sometimes we put our heroes
• 36:52
  S9: or heroines up on a pedestal and don't realize that
• 36:54
  S9: they have an arc themselves, that they didn't come out
• 36:58
  S9: from the womb as the refined, faithful Christians that we imagine.
• 37:04
  S9: They had successes and failures, and Louis did as well.
• 37:07
  S9: There was a time, his very last RAF talk, where
• 37:10
  S9: he is using a question and answer format, and there's
• 37:14
  S9: a corporal who's a communist, and he keeps on peppering
• 37:17
  S9: Louis with political questions. And finally, the corporal asks what
• 37:22
  S9: the chaplain describes as a very unpleasant question, and Louis
• 37:26
  S9: uses his great intellect to completely crush the man. Afterwards,
• 37:30
  S9: the chaplain there comes up to apologize to Louis and says,
• 37:33
  S9: I'm sorry about corporal so-and-so. And Louis says, no, it
• 37:37
  S9: was my fault. You should never crush somebody, even if
• 37:41
  S9: they're unpleasant. You should always find a way to come
• 37:44
  S9: in and encourage them. So Lewis begins to realize it's
• 37:47
  S9: not about winning arguments, it's about encouraging people. And that's
• 37:51
  S9: a really different posture for an apologist to take or
• 37:54
  S9: for Christian to take. And I think we can all
• 37:56
  S9: learn from that.
• 37:58
  S2: With your background in pastoral work, would you consider yourself
• 38:02
  S2: more of an evangelist or an apologist? I'm curious.
• 38:06
  S9: I think I've done the work of an evangelist from
• 38:10
  S9: time to time, but I'm probably more in the in
• 38:13
  S9: terms of spiritual gifting as an apologist, somebody that makes
• 38:17
  S9: things clear so that people can think and take the
• 38:19
  S9: next steps. But we should all be prepared. You know,
• 38:23
  S9: if people ask us to give a right answer about
• 38:26
  S9: why we believe, why we trust in Christ, why Christ
• 38:29
  S9: has filled us with hope and joy, and speak about
• 38:32
  S9: that in a way that's understandable to other people.
• 38:35
  S2: Yeah. Give us just a little bit of your own,
• 38:38
  S2: of your own background. When did you come to saving
• 38:40
  S2: faith in Christ.
• 38:41
  S9: I had a sports accident right before high school, and
• 38:45
  S9: so I had to have an operation on my left
• 38:47
  S9: hand and spent a couple of weeks on my back.
• 38:49
  S9: And I reviewed my life at that point. And I'd
• 38:54
  S9: been to church since the second Sunday I was alive.
• 38:57
  S9: Not the first Sunday, but about every Sunday afterwards. So
• 39:00
  S9: I knew the gospel story, but I realized I had
• 39:03
  S9: never given my heart to God and asked God to
• 39:06
  S9: take control. And so I did that. I prayed simply, God,
• 39:10
  S9: if you want my life, you can have it. I
• 39:12
  S9: don't think it's worth very much, but you can have it.
• 39:14
  S9: And that was a dramatic change for me. I became
• 39:17
  S9: a more hopeful person, um, very soon thereafter. And many
• 39:22
  S9: Christians that I ran into said, you know, if you
• 39:25
  S9: really want to have some place to go for good
• 39:27
  S9: spiritual advice besides the Bible, you might try reading C.S. Lewis.
• 39:32
  S9: So I took a copy of C.S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters
• 39:36
  S9: that my dad had on the bookshelf and began reading that.
• 39:38
  S9: And I've been reading Lewis ever since, and it continues
• 39:41
  S9: to be a helpful spiritual guide for me.
• 39:43
  S2: So other than the Bible, his work was some of
• 39:46
  S2: the most influential that that you'd read. Is that fair
• 39:49
  S2: to say?
• 39:50
  S9: It is. And he continues to have an influence on
• 39:52
  S9: my life as I continue to read and reread him
• 39:55
  S9: and discover new letters and other things that Lewis has written.
• 40:00
  S2: So talk a little bit about his wartime ministry, the
• 40:04
  S2: pastoral care, and some of those conversations that became so
• 40:07
  S2: influential later in his writing.
• 40:10
  S9: Well, first he had the idea that if you had
• 40:12
  S9: two chances to talk to the same group of airmen,
• 40:15
  S9: it would give one talk on how it is reasonable
• 40:18
  S9: to believe that there is a God. And the second
• 40:20
  S9: talk would be, it is reasonable to believe that Jesus
• 40:23
  S9: is the Son of God. And then he found out
• 40:26
  S9: after the real experience he had in the first summer.
• 40:29
  S9: He did that in 1941, that atheists were not too
• 40:32
  S9: interested in proofs for the existence of God. You'd think
• 40:35
  S9: that he would have figured that out before that, but
• 40:37
  S9: he didn't. We began adjusting it and he started with
• 40:40
  S9: Christ and got on better from that point on. And
• 40:45
  S9: then he realized all these chaplains, sometimes they give an
• 40:49
  S9: invitation and opportunity for people to respond and make a
• 40:54
  S9: decision to follow Christ as Savior. So Lewis said, maybe
• 40:57
  S9: I should do that. And he tried to do that.
• 40:59
  S9: And he his invitation fell flat. So he made the decision. Well,
• 41:04
  S9: I guess I'm an apologist, but I'm not an evangelist.
• 41:08
  S9: So again, he keeps on learning things, has some successes
• 41:11
  S9: and some failures, and it influences time later on as
• 41:15
  S9: a writer and as a speaker.
• 41:17
  S2: Now, many love his work who may not even realize
• 41:22
  S2: that it's Christian. I mean, I think the first time
• 41:25
  S2: that I was introduced to the Lion, the witch and
• 41:28
  S2: the wardrobe, I had never heard of C.S. Lewis. I
• 41:30
  S2: didn't know his background. Do you think that he leaned
• 41:35
  S2: into the fact that you said he realized he was
• 41:37
  S2: an apologist and not necessarily an evangelist. He was more
• 41:40
  S2: comfortable speaking to academic audiences versus not. Do you think
• 41:44
  S2: he tried to adapt to the strengths he felt he
• 41:48
  S2: already had, or grow in those areas where he wasn't
• 41:52
  S2: as strong?
• 41:53
  S9: Well, he definitely improved as an apologist in terms of
• 41:56
  S9: his clarity, his ability to give short, dramatic illustrations of
• 42:01
  S9: what he meant by a particular point. But there was
• 42:04
  S9: also the imaginative part of his life that was beginning
• 42:08
  S9: to come alive. It's in the Second World War that
• 42:11
  S9: he writes The Screwtape Letters. He probably writes that entirely
• 42:14
  S9: during the Battle of Britain. Later, he writes The Great
• 42:17
  S9: Divorce during that same period of time, and he begins
• 42:20
  S9: to complete his trilogy of space fantasies. At that time.
• 42:26
  S9: So all of these are precursors to to what he
• 42:29
  S9: does with children's literature later on in The Chronicles of Narnia.
• 42:33
  S2: Fantastic. Bruce Johnson. The book is called From Airman to
• 42:36
  S2: Aslan with C.S. Lewis. You can text Lewis to 800 555, 7898.
• 42:43
  S2: Just text Lewis to 805 557898.
• 42:49
  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and Crew. Well, it's.
• 42:54
  S5: Bottom of the hour, 630 central time here in Chicagoland.
• 42:58
  S5: And oh boy, you know what that means?
• 43:01
  S1: Finding nuggets of truth in everyday life.
• 43:04
  S10: It's a metaphor. It's just a metaphor, dude.
• 43:06
  S11: That's a metaphor.
• 43:08
  S10: It's metaphor.
• 43:09
  S12: I know it's a metaphor.
• 43:10
  S1: It's time for making a metaphor with young thunder.
• 43:15
  S2: This is our opportunity to put young thunder to the test.
• 43:18
  S2: He has a a unique skill, a unique gift, if
• 43:21
  S2: you will, of making a metaphor, finding the spiritual application
• 43:25
  S2: in just about any old thing. So we give him
• 43:27
  S2: a story that, by the way, he never knows what's coming.
• 43:31
  S2: He always.
• 43:32
  S5: Says never.
• 43:32
  S2: For the first time. When you do so, I am
• 43:36
  S2: going to tell you a little bit about my son's
• 43:39
  S2: eighth grade flag football team. He has been a part
• 43:42
  S2: of this team with his middle school for four years.
• 43:45
  S2: They've been playing together and for four years they've had
• 43:47
  S2: one goal. We would really like to win the championship.
• 43:51
  S2: When they first started in fifth grade, they were a
• 43:53
  S2: clunky bunch. They were the smallest in the league and
• 43:57
  S2: it was a it was a rough season, but you
• 43:59
  S2: could see there was some potential. But fifth grade season
• 44:03
  S2: did not go great. Sixth grade season, they got a
• 44:07
  S2: lot better. They made it to the Final Four, but
• 44:09
  S2: in heartbreaking fashion were eliminated in the first round of
• 44:13
  S2: the playoffs and then seventh grade rolled around and wouldn't
• 44:16
  S2: you know it, they made it all the way. They
• 44:18
  S2: upset a team and made it to the championship game
• 44:22
  S2: and lost. So this year, their eighth grade year, they said,
• 44:25
  S2: this is our year. Season started and they were winning
• 44:30
  S2: in quite dominant fashion. One and oh two and oh three,
• 44:35
  S2: zero four, zero five and zero. Last couple of games
• 44:37
  S2: of the season, they had to pull out some really
• 44:40
  S2: close games, but they finished their regular season eight and
• 44:43
  S2: oh two games away from the goal that they had
• 44:46
  S2: set when they were just little guys Championship night. It
• 44:51
  S2: was a rainy night, drizzly, cold lakefront football field, the
• 44:56
  S2: turf along the lake. It was cold. They set out.
• 44:59
  S2: Could it be the year that we finally do it?
• 45:03
  S2: They started the game, started well, finished with a touchdown
• 45:06
  S2: on their first drive and then their second drive, and
• 45:10
  S2: then they ran away with the game. 24 to 6
• 45:14
  S2: was the final score ten and zero. Perfect season, my son.
• 45:20
  S2: He was emotional. Oh how can you not.
• 45:24
  S5: He had non emotional kid right.
• 45:26
  S2: Not him. Well He's a little bit sentimental, but as
• 45:28
  S2: everybody else is going crazy losing their mind, I see
• 45:31
  S2: him put his head down in his hands, like with
• 45:33
  S2: this sense of like. And then I saw the little
• 45:36
  S2: fist pump head down the fist pump groves, and I could.
• 45:41
  S2: I almost got tears in my eyes as I thought
• 45:43
  S2: he praised God. He gave them this little desire of
• 45:47
  S2: his heart. Jonathan. This little team that almost could close
• 45:52
  S2: to good. The good little engine that could now ten and. Oh,
• 45:56
  S2: they won it all, Jonathan, make it a metaphor.
• 45:59
  S3: It is undoubtedly pretty frustrating when you have such a
• 46:04
  S3: lofty goal, and it doesn't immediately work out in your favor,
• 46:08
  S3: you know, to say, oh man, I want to win
• 46:09
  S3: that championship. And then the first year you're on the team,
• 46:12
  S3: it just is not even close to a championship ending.
• 46:16
  S3: That can be pretty tough. Well, it's the same way
• 46:19
  S3: in our walk with Jesus sometimes. Titus 211 through 12 says,
• 46:24
  S3: for the grace that God has, for the grace of
• 46:27
  S3: God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us
• 46:30
  S3: to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright,
• 46:35
  S3: and godly lives in the present age. We have amazing
• 46:39
  S3: goals of I come to Jesus. I'm on the team now.
• 46:43
  S3: I immediately want to start looking exactly like him, with
• 46:46
  S3: nothing else wrong with me, and I'm never gonna have
• 46:49
  S3: to do anything. All the winds are just gonna come
• 46:51
  S3: my way. That's not the way it works. In salvation,
• 46:55
  S3: we are trained by the grace of God over time.
• 46:59
  S3: And so I think sometimes we expect that as soon
• 47:02
  S3: as we jump on the team, all we're going to
• 47:04
  S3: do is win.
• 47:05
  S5: Win, win, win.
• 47:05
  S3: No matter what. And that's not so much the case.
• 47:09
  S3: God wants to train us over a period of time.
• 47:12
  S3: The good thing is, is just like your son experienced,
• 47:15
  S3: the winning is gonna come. The longer you spend with Jesus,
• 47:20
  S3: the more you train, the more you work at it.
• 47:23
  S3: The winning comes. But we shouldn't start by joining the
• 47:27
  S3: team and saying, okay, now I'm just going to win
• 47:29
  S3: all the time and nothing's ever going to be hard.
• 47:32
  S3: It's a training experience. God calls it a training experience,
• 47:36
  S3: which means we're going to have our ups, we're going
• 47:38
  S3: to have our downs. But the good thing is that
• 47:40
  S3: he's present with us and he never kicks us off
• 47:42
  S3: the team for having a couple failures here and there,
• 47:45
  S3: and that's something we can hold on to until the
• 47:47
  S3: winning comes.
• 47:48
  S5: Boom, boom, boom. And you don't disappoint when you go
• 47:52
  S5: to Titus 211 and 12.
• 47:54
  S3: Never. Can't.
• 47:55
  S2: Ever. Favorites.
• 47:56
  S5: You can't mess that up. Good work. Highlight. Memorize. Titus two,
• 48:03
  S5: 11 and 12.
• 48:04
  S3: That's a good one.
• 48:05
  S5: It is. I think it's the consummate passage of the
• 48:10
  S5: nature of God and the power of God to not
• 48:13
  S5: only save us, but to change us and to train us.
• 48:17
  S5: Good work Jonathan. It's called make it a metaphor. And
• 48:20
  S5: you nailed it, my man.