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277: Redefining ADHD for Neurodivergent Kids, with Elly Both · Beautifully Complex

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, harnessing those things like that hyper
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: focus or you know, like that creativity, or you know,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: putting ideas together that might not ordinarily go together in
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: a neurotypical brain. I think there's some things that we
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: can really harness and you know, hopefully kids can benefit
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: from having those skills too.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex Podcast, where I share insights
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back, friends.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I am really excited to have this conversation today with Ellie,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: both about this wonderful kids book that she's written, a
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: book about ADHD and kind of how we talk to
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: our kids about their DHD, how we can reframe that
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: for them, and what your path has been too early
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: as far as getting a diagnosis and understanding how to
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: reframe it as something more positive. So I'm really excited
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: that we're going to get to talk a little bit
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: about your book and all of these great themes that
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: come out of it. But will you start just introduce
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: yourself and let everybody know who you are and what
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: you do.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Sure, I guess, first and foremost, I'm a mum, so
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I've got two beautiful boys. I have run my own
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: business as a sustainability consultant. I'm based in Singapore, originally
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: from Australia, and as you say, I've just become an author,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: which is still a pinch me moment, but so yeah,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I just published earlier this year.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wonderful. Let's talk a little bit about the book.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Let's start there. What inspired you to write it? What
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: is it about? Why would parents want to pick it
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: up and read it with their kids?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure, Well I think for me, you know, I
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: guess you know, in terms of when I was diagnosed,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I was diagnosed later in life, so in my early forties,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and that process for me, you know, it became quite
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: clear when I was looking at something from one of
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: my own kids. You know, he was displaying a couple
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: of signs that I thought were probably ADHD related, and
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I was going through a checklist for him, and then
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: reflected on that and I thought, some of these are
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: really familiar for myself and so then kind of went
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: through the process and then the assessment and diagnosis for me,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: which was a very clear cut textbook combination type so
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: inattentive and hyperactive for me, and that process was an
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: incredibly positive one. You know, it was a very easy process.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: We've got excellent health care, and I was obviously very
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: privileged and lucky to have all of that here in
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: my hot little hands in Singapore. The diagnosis for me
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: was a really positive experience for me. It allowed me
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: to let go of a lot of things that I
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: didn't realize I had been carrying, things like guilt and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: shame and a whole lot of emotions that were kind
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: of wrapped up in this you know, annoyance and frustration
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: at myself not being able to do some of the
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: things that I wanted to do. And I really did,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you know, want to do a lot of things. So
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I think for me, and I had heard a lot
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of stories about people having the reverse experienceperience of their diagnosis.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: So people who were saying, oh my gosh, I got
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: this diagnosis, there's something wrong with me, you know, why me?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: How come I've got this thing to deal with? And
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: my experience just wasn't like that at all. For me,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: it was like, oh, my gosh, I finally understand Oh,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: that's why I do this thing. You know, this is
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: why I feel anxious in some situations and why some
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: things are hard. So for me, it was like a
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: real reverse and I wanted to thought to myself, will
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: if I've had this experience of a really positive framing
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: of ADHD, because it explained a whole lot to me,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of give that to other people.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And I was reflecting on, you know, what it would
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: have been like for myself as an eight year old kid,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: you know, having a seven or eight year old kid
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: at the time, what it would be like to have
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a book that kind of just explained how my you know,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I call it now my pinball brain, you know, how
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: my brain's working and making all his connections and kind
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: of running on, yeah, running it one hundred miles an
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: hour constantly, which is you know, I think there's so
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: many positives out of that as well. I don't think
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I realized that before, but I think, you know, I've
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: obviously gotten to early forty and been able to have
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: a great career in the corporate world. I started my
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: own business. There's been things that I've done that I'm
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: really proud of, even kind of not not being able
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to know a bit about my brain, but I've been
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: able to effectively harness you know what. I guess are
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: these superpowers that I talk about in the book. Yeah,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: And I was really keen to sort of, you know,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: give this toolkit if you like, to a kid aged
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: you know, five, between five and nine years old, to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: be able to say, hey, your brain just works differently.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: This is how it works. Like, you know, take this
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: and reframe at that age how your brain works. I
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: think that would have been a real gift to have.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: So that's what I wanted to create for kids.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. Thanks you to talk about your
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: pinball brain. When I brought my first book, I nicknamed
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: my son Ricochet in that book because it was actually
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: a soccer coach. After the first practice, was like, I'm
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: going to call him Ricoget. Well that makes sense because
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: he was like pinging everywhere, right, So it just reminded
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: me of that. But it is, you know, energy, Like
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I am the opposite. I'm very low key calm. I'm
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: not that hyperactive person, and so I can appreciate that
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: sometimes that energy is really helpful. Yeah, sometimes we really
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: need someone who's thinking a little bit faster, a little
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: bit more creatively. I don't know if you have run
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: across this, but doctor ned Halliwell talks about mirror traits.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: So he takes those traits of ADHD that people see
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: as negatives and he flips them into what can be
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: the positive.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Right Yeah, I've seen it as like the CEO traits.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So you know, I get asked a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: lot about books, for one, so I'm so excited to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: know about your book to recommend books for kids who
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: have been diagnosed to either see themselves or reflection of themselves,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: or to understand themselves better. And also like, how am
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I supposed to talk to my kid about their diagnosis?
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Do I tell them?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: What?
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Do I tell them? And I think maybe the book
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: could even be a bridge for that, right Yeah?
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's such a personal thing. I was
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: having this conversation with a mum yesterday. She's, you know,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: similar to me. Got a boy aged nine years old
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: who's displaying some of these traits and characteristics, and you know,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: he obviously knows something's up. He probably feels different, but
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: she's not sure how to kind of talk to him
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: about it. And we had this most amazing conversation that
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: in the end she was just like, oh, you know,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: because I know I've got you know, she's saying, I'm
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: just displaying traits of this and I'm okay with that, so,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: you know, and we've kind of got to the realization
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: for both of us that maybe he is also a
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: sensing that he's maybe different to other kids and wants
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: to kind of understand his brain a little better. I mean,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: it is such a personal way that you know, whether
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: you choose to assess and diagnose, whether you choose to medicate,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: but also how you choose to talk about this with
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: your kid. It's all very personal. I don't think there's
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: a you know, there's not a one size fits all
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: way that it just to feel right to you. It
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: has to be an authentic way that you communicate with
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: your kid. And yeah, I guess the book hopefully can
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: help that. I really hope that that is the case.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I've had some lovely feedback just in the last week
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: or two from you know, friends and their kids, just
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: saying how much the kid really got that he was
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: reflected or he or she was reflected in the pages
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: of the book. I got one review actually this just
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: this week on Amazon, and every time the kid turned
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: the page he said, that's me, Mummy, that's me. I
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: was really really brought to tears by it because I thought, gosh,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: you know, just just to have a kid who's you know,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: maybe not understanding how all why things are difficult for
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: them to sit and read this book and then to
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: sort of say, oh, this is this is this thing,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: this is what I've been dealing with, This is this
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: thing that I have. And it's not a diagnosis tool,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: obviously I need to be upfront about that, but just
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  Speaker 1: the reflection of I really get that this is how
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: my brain works now, and you know, for a kid
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: to have that, I think that's just, as I say,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: a really powerful tool in the toolbox so that maybe
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: they can, you know, and for parents as well. So
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: it's designed to be co read, you know, grown up
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: in kid and I hope that also parents, you know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: will reflect on perhaps some of the ways that you know,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: we try so hard to do the best for our kids,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and we want our kids to behave a certain way
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: at times and to do the right things at times,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: and man, oh man, it's the most frustrating thing in
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the world. Like, you know, it's not just the ricochet
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: of the brain, it's also physical ricochet to I find
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: in my household. But I also think, you know, if
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: we can understand our kids just a little bit better
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: and understand that, you know what, there's some things that
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: we just have to accept, some things we're not going
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: to be able to change. And I think once we
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: get to that point of acceptance, and it is not easy,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: but once we get to that point of acceptance, then
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: we can you know, embrace and harness what is really
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: awesome about having ADHD. There are challenges. There's no sugarcoating
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: at all in this book. Like I'm really very authentic
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: about that as well. But what I do think is
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: that there's just so much that we can harness and
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: help kids. You know, as I talk about the superpowers
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: in the book, how can what's your superpower and how
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: can you harness that to really, you know, reach your potential?
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: And I think that's that's really the most important thing
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to share in the book to there's
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: so many I think, you know, you probably have understood
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: this too, penny. But so many labels that kids are
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: going to get, you know, stupid, lazy, you know, annoying.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Has someone my mom said that to me yesterday and
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I thought, oh gosh, if the kid's getting the label
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: of annoying at the age of five or six, like
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: what kind of a life is that going to give
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: to them? And it just, you know, it's heartbreaking. But
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: if you can reframe it and say, do you know what,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: compared to that, ADHD is not such a terrible label.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And hopefully this book can say if we can harness
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: things like, you know, one of my kids loves to
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: draw and write comics, and if I can harness that
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: in him, whether or not, you know, he might end
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: up being something completely different. He might want to be
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: a gardener, he might want to be a doctor. Like,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: whatever he wants to do, I'm fine. But to harness
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that thing where he knows he's great at that he
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: loves doing it, and his confidence and his self esteem
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: is then linked to something that he's really good at,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: you know, And I feel emotional talking about it because
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I want, you know, I want my kid to feel
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: seen and understood by his friends and by his teachers
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and by other adults in the community. I want him
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: to know that there are things that are really challenging
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: for him and that's okay, but also there are really
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: cool things that his brain can do. And when he
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: gets into this hyper focus drawing a comic, it's just
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the most beautiful thing. He's just like, you know, he's
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: really elsewhere, He's somewhere else and it's just the best
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: thing to see. So I think, you know, harnessing those things,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like that hyper focus or you know, like
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: that creativity, or you know, putting ideas together that might
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: not ordinarily go together in a neurotypical brain. Yeah, I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: think there's some things that we can really harness and
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you know, hopefully kids can benefit from having those skills too. Yeah. Yeah,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I think that.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I talk about this a lot. I believe
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: that every person has greatness within them, Yes, no matter
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: what their struggles are, no matter what their background.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't help them find it. Yeah, and we
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff it down, which is really sad, But
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: you know what you're talking about helping them find what
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: is your superpower? What is it that either ignites you
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: or that you're really good at And people you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: want to be around you or find out about these
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: things from you. Like when we give kids the opportunity
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: to build confidence around those things, then the negativity the
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: differences don't have as much of a weight I think
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: in the negative. But it can be really hard to do.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: You know, as you said, acceptance and starting to shift
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: so that you're thinking about things more positively. You're shifting
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: the way you're thinking about it. Right, it starts with us.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: We have to do that first, and that can be
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: really challenging. It can be a really long process. But
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: also you know, once you get there, like you were
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: talking about earlier, you were talking to this other mom
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: and you both have ADHD or ADHD traits and you
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: both think about it positively. And the first thing I
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: thought as you said that was what a great model
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: for your kids. They are automatically going to be more
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: likely to think about the positives because their parents are
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: thinking about the positives. Right, You're guiding them to do
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: excite and that's so magical, it's so needed.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 2: code Complex. So I was wondering if maybe you could
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: share some ideas about how to help kids. I don't
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: know if you have any activities or things in mind
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: where you can help kids to reframe. Like I remember
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: when my son was young, maybe age six, seven, eight,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: something like that, his therapist had him lay on this
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: giant piece of paper and she outlined his body and
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: then he got up and they filled it in with
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: everything they could think of about him, right so that
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: he could see that there was lots of stuff. It
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: wasn't just ADHD, it wasn't just the stuff that I
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: struggled with. And I'm just imagining that you probably have
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: other ideas about how to help kids focus more on
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: that positive stuff.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think I mean I can talk about it,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you know, for myself, and I was reflecting on it recently.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: You know, how do I help kids develop kind of
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: these superpowers? Like we've said, I think it acceptance is
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the first thing, but then it's really like, you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: understanding what makes your kid tick or like you said,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: what lights them up from inside? You know, I think
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: if we already know. So you know, I've got one
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: who loves to draw and one who loves to do
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: his comics and write stories and all these fantastical things
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: that happen. So I think it's almost for me just
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: watching what they love to do and then helping foster
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: that that creativity that they have, Like I think, you know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: for me, it's just like you kind of said, getting
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: out a piece of paper and just sitting there and
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: you know, drawing. I mean, I think especially for boys,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: you know, people are always expecting that they need to
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: get this energy out through sport, and I think that's
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: also really helpful, like I need my exercise or I
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: can't function well. But I also think that there's a
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: level of calm and creativity that we can unlock in
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: everybody when it comes to like that kind of artistic side.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And so I think, I mean, fostering that first of all,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: just brings a level of calm to my household that
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I love. That is not common, but I do love it.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: And I also just think, you know, watching what lights
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: them up or you know what books they like to read,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: or you know, what are the things that they want
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: to talk about. I mean, we've talked for many many
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: years in my household, you know, well booked beyond the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: four year old obsession with dinosaurs, Like we've had the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: dinosaur obsession for many many years. But I love hearing
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: about this because it's what literally lights my kid up.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: We've had How to Train Your Drag, and we've read
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: the series, you know, constantly over and over again. We're
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: now into the Diary of the Wimpy Kid. I just
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: love it when my kid comes and wants to talk
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to me about whatever it is, and even if that's
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: ours on end talking about you know, whatever, this obsession
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: of the moment is in ADHD style. I think that's
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: something that I really love and wanta foster too. So
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I love having I mean conversations with my nine year
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: almost nine year old. It just gets better and better.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And the creativity that I see and the happiness that
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: he brings to conversation and the energy, you know, there's
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: this level of authenticity with him that I think is
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: maybe an ADHD thing too, But he's just got this
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: beautiful way of like you know, expressing everything and really
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: being open and sharing about things. So no real tips
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: or tricks from me, but just that conversation is just
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: really what, you know, what lights them up and just
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: makes me feel really connected and I just love that.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I love fostering that with them.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that connection is so valuable to you. You know,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: so much of parenting is about relationship. And when you're
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: really fostering the positive and you're really you know, trying
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: to help kids find their own thing, whatever it is
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that they're good at and then excites them, then you're
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: guiding them down that path of success automatically. But you
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: never know where that stuff is going to lead either.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I've had so.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Many conversations with parents around gaming. Right, We've all struggled
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: with screen time and getting used to that and managing
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: that and helping our kids have a balanced life. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: for a long time it did sort of feel like
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: just a waste of time. But now that industry is
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: huge and there are many different types of jobs and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: creates opportunities that you could work in that field. Right.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: You could be an artist, a storyteller, a coder, a
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: market or a salesperson. Right, there's just all kinds of stuff.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: And so I think when our kids are showing us
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: what they're so interested in, we have to be open
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: to going down that path, whatever that path is, and
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: know too that it may not stick. In two months,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: they may not care about that thing at all anymore,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: and it could be onto the next And that's okay too, right.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I think that, as we were talking about before we
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: got on, you know, I love to have these conversations
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: very organically because I think that's where the good stuff
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: comes up, right, when we're not so mapped out and
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: rigid about our path. And I think the same is
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: true for our kids, Like we just need to follow
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: their lead and help them to navigate it on that
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: more positive note, and they're really get there. But I
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: love that you've created this book that really fasters to
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the just the conversations about it. It's hard to talk
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: to your kid about a diagnosis or something they're struggling with,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: or telling them that maybe they're going to struggle with
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: us forever and they have to figure out a way
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: forward through it.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: It's not easy.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, having something to really faster that conversation is amazing.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and the publisher that I wrote through
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: is called a Kid's Coat and they're a wonderful company
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: out of Portland, Oregon actually in the US. And these
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: books are all part of a much larger series obviously
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: than just mine. There's some wonderful titles like a Kid's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Book about racism was the original one, it's a kid's
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: book about equality, a new one about periods. So just
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: all these topics that it's sometimes really tricky. White privilege
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: is another one. Empathy, like so many of these topics
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: are just I would not know where to start, but
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: you know, they're books that are designed to be read,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: you read with your kid, and then it's an open
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: dialogue that kind of comes after that and what we do.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: So at the end of the book, there's like an
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: outro where I kind of explain you know, now you're
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: probably wondering how you can further the conversation with your kid,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and I've got a number of questions in there. So
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: one of them is what does ADHD mean to you?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So the kid might may well reflect, oh, actually I
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: think that resonates with me, or I see some of
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: myself in the pages of this book. You know, do
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you ever feel like you have your head in the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: clouds or a bouncing off the walls some of the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: themes that I kind of talk about in the book
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and many others here too. But it's also like, you know,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: do you ever feel worried or challenged, or are something's
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: hard for you to pick up initially, or you know,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: like just having it in the pages of a book
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: is less confrontational too, So a kid may well, you know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: really open up about some stuff that's happening at school.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: You know, I know, sometimes it's again back to my
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: drawing out on the back table, you know, in our
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: place here. But sometimes there are the times when the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: kids are really opening up to talk about things that
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: are happening at school, or you know, whether there's bigger
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: kids who are not being very nice to the littler kids.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: But I think, you know, in the pages of a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: book or when it's a different kind of environment, kids
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: much more willing to kind of bring that those challenges
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: to the surface. And then I think often they're worried
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that we're going to say, oh, you shouldn't have done that,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: or you know, did you do something to make these
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: kids be mean to you or whatever it is, And
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: oftentimes it's not you know, like the kids are just
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: who they are, and maybe they stand out because of
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: their uniqueness. I'm not sure, but you know, I want
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: to be able to have these conversations with both my
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: kids to sort of say, well, you know, what can
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: we do and not label kids as bullies necessarily, but
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: what can we do to say that behavior is not okay?
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: But also, I'm really glad that you're telling me this
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: because now I can help you find some kind of
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: a solution. So, yeah, it's just about giving our kids
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: those tools to kind of help that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, stories, faster conversation. I think you know, if you
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: read with your kid, whether you read it to them
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: or you both maybe separately read it and come together
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: to talk about it. Right, Like this goes for any ages.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: My sister, when my nephew was still in high school,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: they would read like Harry Potter and stuff together because
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: that's what he loved. And as a family after dinner,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: they would sit and one of them would have a
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: turn and they would read aloud together, just to like
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: find ways to spend time together with your ny. But
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: it really opened the door for a lot of conversation too,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: and stuff, and it just created a space for togetherness
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: whether you know. So often I think when we want
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: to talk to our kids, we come at them with questions.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: We ask them how things are going right, We put
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: them on the spot fastest way to see the wolves
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: go up, exactly. And so like if you can talk
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: about a story, you can talk about a character. It
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: just creates that time where you might or you might
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: not have conversations that are meaningful. You might learn some
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: things about your kid, you might not, but at least
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: you have that connection, which is so important.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I love the idea of, like, you know,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: having that connection still with the teens, because I know
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: that's coming for me. I know you're in the thick
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of it. But but yeah, to have ideas of, you know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: how do we continue to have these relationships which you know,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: hopefully we're sewing the seeds now, but you know, the
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: teenagers are kind of like the uncharted territory for a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: lot of us. So I love that idea to continue
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: that connection. And it's also like you say, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: we asked the questions and everyone kind of shuts down,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: But creating that kind of authentic way to connect that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: will then foster those you know, those close conversations. I
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: think that's a really important important thing to have.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my nephew's younger. I wish that she had had
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: that idea and shared it with me when my kids
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: were still in school, because I totally would have tried it,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: but I never because they were older. I just never
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: thought that they would want to do it. And I
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: was really surprised that he was into doing that with them,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: and I thought, Okay, well, maybe I should have posed.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You know, these opportunities no matter what. Yeah, it's a
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: good lesson for everyone listening who has it coming up.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And there's so many stories with characters who have ADHD
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: or something similar to you, so you know, you can
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: read things together where your kid can sort of see
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: themselves in that care yeah, and feel less alone exactly.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: And I also love I mean, you know, my kids
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: love the Captain Underpants series and The dog Man and
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: everything by David Kelp, who obviously you know, had ADHD.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Has ADHD may be very open about that, and I think,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: you know, like, this is a really cool thing to say.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: You know, there are some people in the world who've
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: done amazing things and have this condition, so it's not
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: a stopper it's not a blocker like you know, Richard Brandson, Gosh.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I could probably name twenty people who've done
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: incredible things and made a huge impact globally who you know,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: have this Ferrari brain. So, you know, I think perhaps
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: that's part of reason why they've been successful, or they've
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: been able to harness the unique brain that they have
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: and you know, being able to build those connections or
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: foster that creativity and be able to achieve some amazing results.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: And I think those examples in the world are really
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: important for our kids as well. Then you know, caps
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: In Underpants is a huge favorite of mine, and.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Also, yes, so many kids enjoy Captain Underpants. The first
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: time one of my kids brought one home, I looked
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: at it and I thought, what are you like? I
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: didn't know yet, and then I was like, yes, yes,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: go for it. It's great. There's so many examples in
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the world, whether it's a fictional character or real life person,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: there's so many examples of people who found a path
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: to success and it's it's possible. And just having that
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: frame of mind with our kids is everything exactly. So
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: you've set a wonderful example for us of how to
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: go forward with a more positive outlook on being different, right, Yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: tell everybody where they can find you online to find the.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Book absolutely, so you can find me. It's at Ellieboff
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: dot com and I'm also on Instagram at Today We Write.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I love to journal. I encourage people to write a
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: little bit every day, so that's my journaling prompts as
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: many days of the week as I can muster it.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And you can also find the book on Amazon globally
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: and some local bookstores as well. So yes, look forward
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: to hearing what everyone thinks of the book.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for sharing some of your personal story
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and sharing your outlook on ADHD with the world, and
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: that's really going to help us have meaningful conversations with
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: our kids and help our kids feel better about their
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: differences and who they are. I'm so thankful for what
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: you're doing.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: My pleasure.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I will see everybody on the next episode. Take
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: don't forget to check out my online courses and parent
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: coaching at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at the
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Behavior of Revolution dot com